Like a Circle in a Spiral
More than a month ago I reasoned that the “mob attack” on the American consulate in Benghazi was really a counter-intel operation. That now looks to be a good guess. UPI reports that the consulate was really a CIA station in disguise.
WASHINGTON, Nov. 2 (UPI) — The CIA was the real commanding agency at the attacked U.S. Consulate in Benghazi, Libya, not the State Department, senior U.S. intelligence officials said.
In addition, two of the four men who died in the Sept. 11 attack — former Navy SEAL commandos Tyrone Woods and Glen Doherty — were actually CIA contractors killed defending the mission, not State Department contract security officers, as originally publicly identified, the officials told several news organizations on condition of anonymity.
The intelligence officials said that within 25 minutes of being alerted to the attack in a desperate phone call, the CIA rushed a half-dozen security operatives to the mission from a secret base about a mile away.
The operatives, who arrived at the mission about 25 minutes after that, joined State Department security agents in a futile search through heavy smoke and enemy fire for Stevens, the officials said in the most thorough account to date of the assault and of the CIA’s authoritative role at the consulate.
The operatives evacuated mission personnel and took control of an unarmed U.S. military drone to map possible escape routes, the officials said. The MQ-1 Predator drone, used by the CIA for reconnaissance, began providing video surveillance.
In the midst of the assault, the operatives also dispatched an emergency reinforcement team from Tripoli, the capital, and chartered aircraft that ultimately carried surviving U.S. personnel to safety, the officials said.
The militant assault went quiet around 1 a.m., the officials said in a written account that said the pause lasted until almost daybreak and apparently led CIA and State Department officials to think the danger had passed.
But just before dawn — and not long after the CIA-led reinforcement team, including two military commandos, arrived from Tripoli — the militants launched a brief but deadly mortar attack that surprised the Americans, the officials said.
Two CIA security officers defending the base from a rooftop — Woods and Doherty — were killed in the attack, the officials said.
This constitutes an almost complete departure from the original ‘official’ narrative centered as it was on the State Department, Hillary Clinton and Ambassador Stevens. “He joined the Foreign Service, learned languages, won friends for America in distant places and made other people’s hopes his own,” Hillary Clinton said shortly afterward. That original narrative was essentially a cover story. And so too, in all probability, was the fairy tale about the ‘Islamophobic’ video.
The new narrative inescapably suggests that the attack was a counterintelligence operation of some sort which not only penetrated the State Department cover, but also divined the location of the safe house. It is also clear that the chain of command did not fully understand just how seriously they were compromised. Otherwise they would not have retreated to the “safe house” was that was not safe. They would not have thought the attack was “over” when in fact the deadliest phase was yet to come.
The events as they unfolded are strong indications that the threat was underestimated or misunderstood from the first to well into the action.
What was the entry point of the “video” story? One possibility was that it grew from a deception fed the CIA by poisoned sources to mask the nature of the real attack. In any case nobody appeared to know the true extent or nature of the attack and falsely assumed security where there was none — with deadly results. When it finally dawned on them how bad things were the other possibility was that the administration seized on the “video” fable to extend their cover for just a little longer in order to scatter or conceal assets which might be blown.
But by the end of the mortar attack it must have been abundantly clear that a fiasco of unknown extent had taken place, and on the eve of the first Presidential debate to boot. It is likely that whatever program the CIA was handling was in shambles; and their total exposure was undetermined. That means that the attack on the consulate is just tip of a much, much larger story whose outlines are only now emerging.
The public typically assumes that while they may be in the dark the nation’s leaders ‘know the truth’. In this case there is strong evidence to suggest that the leadership is only now adding two and two together. One only hopes it makes four. The other impression I had immediately after the Cairo and Benghazi attacks was how much they resembled the attacks on the African embassies in the days leading up to 911/2001.
If that’s the case the assault which began in Benghazi didn’t end after the mortar attacks. It’s only in a lull. Something else may be in train even now.
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So the US government was selling Kaddafi’s weapons to the Syrian rebels through Libya. Al Quada, the bad guys, figures they would use their cousins in Libya and set them up. Stevens goes to Bengazhi with minimum security. The Libyan security team runs away and the bad guys attack. A CIA security team goes after them and finds out Stevens is gone. They retreat to a “secure” house and evacuate who they can. In the mean time the bad guys simply wait around until the morning? When they don’t see the calvery rush in, the lob a couple of mortors onto the site killing the two ex-seals and then run away knowing all the time that the drones are overhead and “may” take them out as soon as they fire the mortors.
All the while Stevens is gone and then mysteriously turns up dead at a hospital by some locals that are “friendly” to the US. So what did they do with Stevens between the time the security detail arrived at the embassy site? Why did the two cia ex-seals stay behind at the compromised safe house and get mortored? For that matter if the safe house was compromised from the beginning why didn’t the bad guys just mortor it when everyone retreated there and then when they started to clear it out? Sorry, but I’m still confused….
From the first I had the feeling that Benghazi and Cairo were a ‘precursor’ to something. Thus, while the focus of criticism has been on whether the President mishandled Benghazi, the real worry is whether he is mishandling the situation now.
While Benghazi was tragic, the damage is done. But the very same lack of foresight, tunnel vision, miscalculation and carelessness which doomed the men on that day are still very much in evidence. Having failed abjectly then, why should the President succeed now? Rather the balance of probability is that the next catastrophe will surprise him as much as the last.
If he doesn’t level with the public and talks video nonsense, why should we assume he faces the truth internally? Probably he doesn’t. If he’s still looking for someone to hold the bag then he’s not really thinking about the real problem.
Someone is inside his OODA loop and it isn’t Mitt Romney but the enemy. Enemy? Why “Osama bin Laden is dead and General Motors is alive!” What enemy? If you can’t name the enemy and can’t state your strategy, you are in big trouble.
Cluelessness is something this admin does very well, both simulated and real flavors.
I am really curious about this “smoking gun” info regarding the stand down orders. Does it exist? Do “two networks” really have it? Will the public be made aware of it? If so, when?
So many unanswered questions…
KWB,
the “safe house” they stuck around at *was the CIA annex*. Our guys retreated their from the consulate, which following SOP of AQ was not the real attack, but the diversionary one meant to flush the CIA folks to the annex so AQ could mortar it.
Probably AQ knew of its existence but not its exact location until our people evac’d to it.
i say again: CIA and Hillary got played.why did hillary and bill talk to a fleet of lawyers before admitting
this was a terrorist attack? what did she need them for? why did obama
meet at 5 pm on sept. 11 with Panetta and Biden but not Hillary, when
it was her ambassador who was attacked?
because Hillary had to talk Obama into the fight in libya in the first
place, and was trying to do the same to intervene in syria. he wanted
nothing to do with it officially.
the program was a gunrunning operation. Ambassador Stevens and the CIA
were running weapons to anti-assad groups in syria. and how would that
go over with Obama’s base? the hard left that hates the CIA. hated
military or extra-military ops? covert ops to overthrow govts in the
mideast? that’s evil republican stuff.
but they were all amateurs. and their plan was bad. the russians
didn’t want syria destabilized. the obama /hillary admin were too
stupid or too naive to notice the were arming al qaeda anyway.
and then they got played. they were supposed to get *something* for
running the weapons to AQ. but instead, they got attacked by AQ,
ambassador killed, CIA annex found and attacked, CIA warehouses of
weapons looted. AQ got the weapons, our people got nothing and died.
(and very likely, this was with russian or iranian or both help)
So Obama found out the fiasco was happening in relation to an
operation he would never admit, and decided too bad–hillary’s plan,
hillary’s folks, they get no official help. none. he abandoned them to
die, maybe to save himself, maybe to spite Hillary, and maybe above
all, because his base would never support this kind of op. so the
coverups began, but they were amateurs at that too.
Circles within circles – this will take a while to unravel. To zoom right out I find my thoughts turning to the broad contradiction I find in Obama’s policies. He is trying to ‘engage and co-opt’ on the one hand and using direct action like drone attacks and covert intervention (which we get a glimpse of in Benghazi) on the other. It is incoherent but most importantly fails to recognize that there is little opportunity for win win in our relations with the Arabs. Did he really think he could avoid the kind of problems Bush had in Iraq by not sending troops in? Benghazi is the same brew of Arab deception, violence, and betrayal that we observed among various Arab groups and experienced directed at us in Iraq. I think there are better engagement opportunities with the Kurds and the Iranians who we seem to be ignoring. There are also opportunities with Indonesia, which is perhaps the model of Islam in the President’s head because he lived there. I’ve spent time there and it is an entirely different world than the Middle East. Arabs are different and I notice neither the Kurds nor the Farsi speaking Iranians are Arabs either.
it may be that Woods and Doherty were told to do nothing so as to not compromise the location of the annex–and then they disobeyed orders, retrieving sean’s body, rescuing others, but in the end, drawing AQ to the annex, so then O and Panetta and the rest decided it was too messy to use official help even on the annex, so the team from tripoli was scrambled instead.
the state dept briefing provides a start for a timeline.
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2012/10/198791.htm#.UHmUMQQjpX0.twitter
so does this bit:
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2012/10/benghazi-a-reader-assesses-the-evidence.php
Timeline from the washington post.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/david-ignatius-cias-benghazi-timeline-reveals-errors-but-no-evidence-of-conspiracy/2012/11/01/a84c4024-2471-11e2-9313-3c7f59038d93_story.html
Why keep the gun running operation secret? Everyone knew the Saudi’s were giving the syrian rebels weapons help. Was the US trying to clear out the huge weapons inventory in Libya, more potent stuff that the Saudi’s would not provide the Syrian rebels, so that the saudis could say later we didn’t give them the good stuff only ak-47′s? My real question is what information were the bad guys trying to get out of Stevens between the time they took him and when the Libyan security forces showed up AFTER the mortor attack. Mysteriously both Stevens and the state dept guy were put on trucks (4 bodies) to the airport. Surely the Obama administration can’t be trying to hide a gun running operation from his political base? They will still vote for him no matter what. So what are they really hiding?
Wretchard, I’m not nearly as deep a thinker as you, but I still can’t figure out why this must have a deeper purpose than what is unfolding before our eyes? Why must there be more than what has already happened?
In essence we have been kicked out of Libya, and probably blinded in Egypt and elsewhere. I’m pretty sure Egypt/MB was behind this – it is they who provided the ginned up pretext for the attacks; Egypt translated the absurd film into Arabic and aired it just in time for the 9/11 anniversary. It is they who maintained the Cairo attack (in which their police basically stood back and allowed it to unfold) was due to anger over a video.
The local genius Spengler has been saying for more than a year that Egypt is just about to fail. I have often ridiculed this undoubtedly brilliant analysis because it strikes me as so absurd and so wishful. He likes to constantly point out that Egypt is down to their last billion or two in cash reserves… And points out how chaotic the fundamentalist Islamic takeover of Egypt is… It never seems to enter his mind that what is happening in Egypt are features of Islam, not bugs. We’ve also been told for decades by the likes of the very brilliant Michael Ledeen that Iran is about to fall, that it can’t go on. Yet it does. So will Egypt.
And Khaddafy is rumored to have died with a personal net worth of $200,000,000,000.00. That’s $200 BILLION. A recent list of the world’s richest people of all time (adjusted for inflation) actually listed the Duck as one of the top ten richest of all time. That’s a mighty big plum for Egypt to seize.
Here are just a few of the things that I think the Western bright lights have gotten completely and consistently wrong on the ME: (people who bother to read my posts at this site will know I have consistently challenged these geniuses like a broken record):
1. Iran is the biggest state sponsor of terrorism. Wrong. Saudi Arabia is the biggest state sponsor and the most dangerous Muslim nation of all. They fund most mosques and most Imams outside of Dar ul Islam. In other words, while geniuses like Ledeen and myriad others lecture us about Iran (the third or fourth most dangerous Muslim nation) nations like SA devour the world with Islamic da’wa and corrupting payoffs to Western media, politicians, and academia. Sunni Islam – the flavor of Islam which spawns most global terror outfits, makes steady inroads across the planet while we are directed to focus on the little Satan of Islam: Shiite Iran.
2. The vast majority of Muslims are peaceful! We must not wage war against all Muslims. Wrong! So were the vast majority of Japanese citizens who explicitly or tacitly supported the imperial war machine. All Muslims explicitly or tacitly support war, terror, and subversion against us. Muslims are incapable of adhering to the values which make the West what it is. A recent poll “revealed” that 38% of AMERICAN Muslims believe Sharia should be the law of the land in the USA. In the USA, 5% of Muslims asked openly admit to supporting al Qaida (!), and 8% of Muslims in the USA refuse to say whether they support AQ or not. (hint, they DO). I’m pretty sure you can combine those numbers and then at least double the sum, meaning perhaps nearly 1/3 of Muslims in America support al Qaida and its objectives.
Obama is the guy who expunged every reference to Islam, jihad and terrorism from the entire national security apparatus. Instructors and lecturers at the War College and other command level schools are not permitted to say what 1,400 years of the history of jihad makes blazingly obvious.
What would a POTUS who was openly advancing jihadi interests do any differently?
The adminstration has a deep need to lie to the American people. If things were as they were they could have taken a more neutral position on the whole matter instead of spreading blatant anti-American propaganda.
The latest language is likely a cover for an even darker truth. I wouldn’t be surprised that the whole CIA story was to cover the fact that the safehouse was really a Peace Corp hostel. Somebody has to do JFK’s good deeds.
LG at 5: Indeed. And the nature of the Arabs has been noticed before. Genesis 16:12 “He shall be a wild ass of a man, his had against every man and every man’s hand against him; and he shall dwell over against all his kinsmen.” This was said of Ishmael, of course.
Islam itself is a quasi-Arab/Persian concoction dating from the later 8th century, and put together in what is now Iraq. It is sort of as if the Persians who ran the Arab Empire of the time reached back into the Arab’s fantasy past and pulled out a caravan of Jinn to base their new imperial religion on; it’s just no one realized that the Ash’arites would rise up and overthrow all semblance of sanity–something that began in the 9th century with the triumph of the Ash’arites over the Mu’tazalites in Baghdad.
We can date it precisely: the religious coup happened in Baghdad in the second year of the reign of Caliph Ja’afar al-Murtawakkil (847-861). The Mu’tazalites were thrown out of power, old al-Hanbal (founder of the Hanbali school of Islamic jurisprudence, and ancestor to all Wahabis, Salafists, etc.), was released from prison, and so on. By 885, forty years later, all professors in Baghdad were commanded to swear to never again to copy out a philosophical book again, etc. (‘Philosophy’ including science, math, and so on.)
The Kurds and the Iranians were not so insane, and the rift between Shia and Sunni was made absolute, but the deep genetic contagion of “wild-assness” certainly affects all Muslims wherever they are.
An Préachán
So this would be another example of a monumental failure by our intelligence community? I’m no fan of the Great O, and think he’s as incompetent as they come, but I have little more confidence in the CIA, FBI, or any other gov’t organization we have initials for (and those we don’t). Sleep tight, you’re in the best of hands.
Benghazi: the competence of Fast & Furious, the transparency of Solyndra, and the efficiency of Obamacare. Forward!
It’s about Syria, and it’s about Russia, and the consulate attack will only be a precursor to Something Big if the Russians intend to communicate to us, in a way we will be able to understand, that they will not tolerate us pulling down the lynch pin of their entire South Eurasian strategy, after we have taken Libya and Iraq. Al Qaeda are just mercs. And I still can’t understand why you let Mr. X, Not Uncle Joe post here, as a matter of principle.
So it looks like that no one could have done anything more at the time of the attack. Just as after 0755 on 7 Dec 1941 no one could have done any more, after ignoring the intelligence data, radar report, lining up the airplanes wingtip to wingtip, USS Ward sinking a sub, etc. I find that believable.
But then why did they do the “it was all a mob inspired by a video” coverup? That’s really the important point. And the only reasonable answer is that they did not want to reveal that the Obama Admin’s policy and trumphilism associated with the “destruction of Al Queda” was in shambles. And that they did not want to reveal that repeated requests for additional security support had been ignored.
This parallels Somalia, where request for armor had been denied, since to supply tanks would have been an admission that the revised nation-building mission there was far more fraught with hazard than the famine support effort started by the previous administration.
How much of this is coverup, how much is incompetence, and how much is willful ignorance based on a bad assessment of the situation.?
As the old joke goes, we have established what the lady is and we are now just haggling over the price.
Buraq is in real trouble now, CBS weighs in and it ain’t good:
CBS News has learned that during the Sept. 11 attack on the U.S. Mission in Benghazi, the Obama Administration did not convene its top interagency counterterrorism resource: the Counterterrorism Security Group, (CSG).
“The CSG is the one group that’s supposed to know what resources every agency has. They know of multiple options and have the ability to coordinate counterterrorism assets across all the agencies,” a high-ranking government official told CBS News. “They were not allowed to do their job. They were not called upon.”
Information shared with CBS News from top counterterrorism sources in the government and military reveal keen frustration over the U.S. response on Sept. 11, the night ambassador Chris Stevens and 3 other Americans were killed in a coordinated attack on the U.S. consulate in Libya.
…
Counterterrorism sources and internal emails reviewed by CBS News express frustration that key responders were ready to deploy, but were not called upon to help in the attack.
…
Absent coordination from Counterterrorism Security Group, a senior US counterterrorism official says the response to the crisis became more confused. The official says the FBI received a call during the attack representing Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and requesting agents be deployed….
…
Another senior counter terrorism official says a hostage rescue team was alternately asked to get ready and then stand down throughout the night, as officials seemed unable to make up their minds.
14: yes, clearly. the typical AQ/zawahiri plan would have had Stevens beheaded on youtube. So some “adult” was in charge.
I long sgo came to agree with Ion Pacepa(who has a blog here at PJ!) and his assessment that if AQ got a nuke, it would have been because the KGB gave it to them. AQ does not act on its own in these matters. they and the islamist orgs are subsidiaries of the KGB and its children.
” . . . not the State Department, senior U.S. intelligence officials said.”
Ever since the President appointed H. Clinton as Secretary of State, dysfunction was inevitable. The two cannot be a team as long as H. has presidential ambitions. Any information leaked to reporters is leaked for a reason.
I suspect we will soon hear a finely-crafted comment from David Petraeus.
Read the subtext. The spinners in State and the White House are trying to blame the CIA. It won’t work.
@19 “Read the subtext. The spinners in State and the White House are trying to blame the CIA. It won’t work.”
I hope Norman is right, but no doubt MoveOn is dusting off the “Gen. Betray-us” playbook. The new Truther line (especially if The Won loses on Tuesday) will be something out of a Bourne movie–i.e. Petraeus **wanted** a Blackhack Down scenario to hang around Obama’s neck before the election and it was only Obama’s perspicuity that prevented a bloodbath (the, like, gutsiest call **ever**.)
2. wretchard:
Remember: Obama is the man who thought he won the first debate when he walked off the podium that night. He tends towards the delusional.
Odd, you would think with all their experience running guns to mexican narco-mobs they would have been better at this.
Well, there’s the old saying, some people have 20 years experience, other’s have one year of experience twenty times. Some people don’t learn, or, as Wretchard said:
Part of the reason the Obama administration never learns is their focus is never on figuring out what happened or what they could have done better. Priority One is always PR damage control. I’m not sure where the video story gurgled up from, but there was a lot of effort put into pushing it in the immediate aftermath. What attention they had to spare from that went into criticizing Romney’s response to the attacks.
“The Obama Uncrowned Affair”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=vB76C3IQ0eQ#!
Lordy I’m showing my age.
22. JMH
You’re absolutely right. Obama and his minions are monitoring, tracking, dodging and responding to multiple issues. The question is: a) Are they completely focused on the “wrong” ones because they’re inept and clueless? or b) Are they completely focused on the only ones that really matter … to them?
The answer is clear, and they reveal themselves daily through the actions they do/do not take, the decisions they do/do not make and the issues they deem to be priorities.
“What was the entry point for the video story?”.
The first mention seems to be in the affronted tweet by someone at the U.S. embassy in Cairo. The tweet implied that Americans should be apologetic for the production of an anti-Islamic video and resulting violence. Mitt Romney replied as you remember.
I think this tweet and video in the can excuse, steer the story to a preplanned operation–not just by Jihadists, but by someone in the building.
FWIW:
Remember that clandestine “gun-running” has been a feature of American foreign policy since at least Iran-Contra. Even Clinton allowed weapons to “get” to the Croats and non-Serb Bosnians, thus forcing the Serb militias to the negotiating table.
As to weapons falling into the hands of Islamic militans? That was a feature in the CIA’s efforts in Soviet-occupied Afghanistan, remember? The difference is that weapons, including Stingers, were supplied to the Mujahedin, and not to bin Laden’s bunch (that was the KSA’s perview).
I only mention this because such counter-arguments will come up from Obama defenders. The difference is: there is competent gun-running and the Obama kind. Also, the most important points are that Benghazi was allowed to happen, and there may be more than just a “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” kind of thing going on with this administration’s version of aiding “insurgents.” It is also possible that islamist simpathizers have moles in this administration. Ya think?
To W.
‘The other impression I had immediately after the Cairo and Benghazi attacks was how much they resembled the attacks on the African embassies in the days leading up to 911/2001′
I dont see any attack on US ambassies in Africa just DAYS pre 911-2001 unless we take into account Tanzania and Kenya (1998) and if that wiki list is to be trusted:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_attacks_on_diplomatic_missions
But the magnitude and the synchronicity of the protests to the movie clip cannot be denied.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactions_to_Innocence_of_Muslims
regards
SF
W:
A minor technical point: the CIA office in a nation’s capital is the “station.” A subordinate office is a “base”. Benghazi was a base. Otherwise, this is a good analysis.
There is an institutional bias where intelligence is involved to cover tracks and not admit what the real motivations of assets were. I will give the Obama administration the benefit of the doubt in their initial coverup of developments surrounding the death of Ambassador Stevens. Of course this is not always true: Eisenhower admitted (after a few days) that Gary Powers’ U2 was indeed a CIA intelligence operation. Imagine where we would be today if Obama had reacted in a similar fashion? If he had said “yes, the Benghazi operation was a CIA program to collect weapons that had been shipped to Libyan rebels and get them out of Libya.” Romney would have been defanged, the MSM would have preserved some of their legitimacy and Obama would have been recognized as politically and militarily astute.
All that was lost because Obama wanted to defend his reputation as a “healer” with Muslims and able to calm troubled waters. Except in adopting the public affairs tactics he did he ended up making things worse. So what’s new?
Facts on the ground suggest that the Obama administration, and to a lesser degree GWB’s administration, are either ignorant about the Muslim Brotherhood or complicit in advancing sharia (jihadist) goals in the USA and abroad. Want to know why?
Frank Gaffney has produced a comprehensive, fact filled, 10 part analysis and expose (video and documents) of the MB’s reach into both political parties and into US Government policy making circles. This is powerful stuff. It will scare the hell out of you. MuslimBrotherhoodInAmerica.com.
29. Peter Boston
Which presents a very difficult situation for a Romney presidency: the possibility of a series of Congressional hearings that will be labeled “McCarthyist” if genuine, solid evidence of Islamist intrusion and outright spying has been happening in the executive branch. Most explosive would be any evidence that someone within the current administration passed sensitive info to those who sent in the Benghazi attackers or their allies.
This issue will be compounded by possible “sabotage” and obstructionism within the ranks of the bureaucracy if there is a Romney administration.
“… the officials told several news organizations on condition of anonymity.”
If the “quality” press did not use anonymous sources, they would have nothing to print. Frankly, I am very tired of every report being non-attributable. Very Junior High.
If one of those bureaucrats would put his pension on the line and give his name, then the rest of us might actually believe some of the words printed in the daily papers. Think about the contrast between those snivilling bureaucrats & conniving reporters on the one hand and our heroic former SEALs on the other. Let’s stop playing along with these anonymous games!
One way or another, this has to lead back to the Russians (and their surrogates) via the British. It has to. That whole “leading from behind” thing in Libya never, ever made sense from a basic American perspective. You could sell it to the leftwing, however, and if you could sell it to the leftwing there’s no one better for the job than the best-of-intentions British.
In fact, I doubt if Barack initially wanted to do the “leading from behind” thing. It probably was all Hillary and Bill, Bill and Hillary. And their European buds.
Wretchard, in your September 29 “Sleight of Hand” post I suspect you’re right on the money, for the most part. I think we very clearly got played for the fool. In the business of the CIA, it sometimes happens. Risks have to be taken, and losses will be suffered. But what if the two questions you asked:
1) who masterminded the attacks;
2) what help did they have from persons inside the United States.
are slightly off? What if question number two, instead of having a domestic focus, should rather center around what friendly nation(s) — that we’re obviously relying upon — has been penetrated? The key here is the whole “leading from behind” thing. We’re not really driving the train in this Libya operation. Britain and France, right? And the Russians know an inherent weakness when they see it. Hell, they may have even instigated the damn design of the inherent weakness in this entire initiative.
Now, we have major elements of our government leaking documents and casting blame upon one another to protect their asses. Not good.
And not-for-nothing are London and Paris known as two of the major terrorist havens of the world.
It’s just a thought, and my obvious bias is this: (1) we shouldn’t be thinking domestic; (2) America should never “lead from behind” in situations such as this.
I’d be inclined to cut BO some slack for the initial obfuscation too if it was simply white disinformation to avoid acknowledging what is probably a significant logistics piece to the Syrian anti-Assad effort. That would only have been prudent. But to take out an ad in Pakistan – by the way, did he buy that Pakistan advert before those idiots rioted and killed each other, or during the festivities? The coordinated effort was Libya, Egypt, Pakistan. Interesting to include Pakistan.
But by the way what is the point of the secrecy around the Libyan arsenal distribution operation? Who hadn’t figured out the US is supplying and directing, in part, the Syrian rebellion? And what fallout would there have been – except with Russia, China, and Hezbollah, who obviously already knew anyway? Just because the media and the public don’t seem to be aware or understand the Secret War certainly doesn’t mean the belligerents don’t understand it.
This government’s public relations with its own citizens regarding who and what necessitates the Secret War have been absolutely stupid since Truman, at least. And it’s more or less treasonous, since it requires the Soviet-like creation and maintenance of a pseudo-world that wreaks havoc on the informed electorate, since it requires stupidities like The USA is not providing guns to Syria, or Al Qaeda is a spontaneous movement supported by random Gulf playboy Islamo-fantasists, or Kennedy and the USA won the Cuban Missile Crisis. And now everyone you meet is an idiot you can’t talk to because they all live in this La La Land and actually think Obama is more than the political trust fund baby of the New Left – who would, by the way, die if we could just tell the truth directly, in public.
We still have no (other) explanation or even discussion of what 30 additional Americans (?) were doing in the consolate/complex?
The incuriosity of the MSM is astounding.
STATEN ISLAND BEING LEFT BEHIND
Remember the eerie statement by Obama regarding the Sandy response? “Nobody will be left behind” he said. It struck many of us as almost obscene after Benghazi.
As it turns out, both the NYC and state and federal responses in the NYC area have been catastrophic. FEMA is almost nowhere to be found. This ought to be Obama’s Katrina. Chritie even had his “you’re doing a great job, Brownie” moment with his excessive praise of Obama re NJ. How will Staten Island vote on Tuesday, assuming they get to vote at all? And the Manhattan dumpster-divers?
Been reading for a long time
I’m a contractor who’s working security in africa for years.
UPI has it wrong. Woods and Doherty were working under the weapon collection program – based out of the State Department Consulate in Benghazi. It was NOT a CIA compound.
This isn’t a Tom Clancy novel, this is the real world.
I’m amazed at the clueless reporting on this issue – which is endangering us on the ground.
The media needs to get it right or keep quiet.
@ 18. Aardvark
‘I suspect we will soon hear a finely-crafted comment from David Petraeus.’
He’s in Egypt right now for (fill in the blank) :
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/31/cia-head-david-petraeus_n_2051419.html
Hope ”they” dont pull a benghazi on him . That would probably fall in line with W.:’It’s only in a lull. Something else may be in train even now.’
Regards
SF
Old Crow- thank you for that insight.
What is your take on the timing and difference in methods in first and last part of the attack? Would you consider the coordination and competence suggestive of QODS or Spetznaz involvement as embeds or trainers?
I’ll get back to you on that.
Busy.
Over here in africa now, got to go
I’ve replaced the batteries in my truth’o'metter and checked it against a nephew’s statement on his love of cookies and video games. It still indicates either nothing or negative on all the beloved sources of the “Elite.”
Thanks, looking forward to it.
To all- heres another interesting insight from an IT/comms guy, ex-watchstander at State.
http://riehlworldview.com/2012/11/does-matter-state-department-never-requested-military-backup-the-night-of-benghazi-attack.html#comment-262875
Thanks, looking forward to it.
To all – here’s insight from a retired State guy, as IT/Comms watchstander:
http://riehlworldview.com/2012/11/does-matter-state-department-never-requested-military-backup-the-night-of-benghazi-attack.html#comment-262875
Permítanme aclarar esto. Obama lo sabía todo y mentido sobre todo. Es Mecca y antiestadounidense. Él se detendrá ante nada para engañar al público estadounidense y lograr sus objetivos egoístas
Kinuachdrach @ 31:
DC and the US Gov’t are broken beyond repair. Beyond. Repair. There is only one way to fix it and L3 has it right. For now = Vote Them Out. Vote against the incumbents if they do not do what their employers wish. And who are the employers? Us. You. Me. Primary the recidivists who refuse to reform.
Campaign for Primary Accountability
Old Crow @ 39:
Really? What country are you based in? I have a friend who just got back from doing his year in The Horn in his civilian affairs role. Hearts and minds and all that. So talk. We can take the need to be circumspect into account. You know we can tell the truthiness of what you will say. Or as I really expect – Not. I doubt you are who you say you are.
We had many mobys from Eastern Europe during the Georgia cock-up around here telling their BS.
wretchard – The Admin is weaving a spiders web. Unfortunately it resembles one of those woven by an LSD addled spider instead of one of natures creatures.
Too many layers of non-leadership. All the comments are in the academic world. Time for the US to go grunt now and then. How about somebody (President?) calling the local force commander – like on the phone and personally – and saying something like “We have a bad situation at consulate in Benghazi, go down there and kick ass, take names, secure the area and report to me your success”.
The first joke was the story that the ambassador was in Benghazi to open a school.
Two things that puzzle me about all this are:
1. Why is the producer of the video still locked up? Probation violation? I haven’t heard what he did to violate his probation and any decent lawyer should be able to spring him on that in twenty-four hours. Nearly everyone believes it’s because of the video. It doesn’t pass the smell test for me. Where is the ACLU screaming about violating his first amendment rights? Again where is his lawyer? I think it’s a double red herring. According to Walaid Shoebat he’s not a Egyptian Copt but a muslim with terrorist connections and I think he’s locked-up to insure his silence. What would he have to tell and who would he tell it to? The press maybe? Maybe if they found out he was secretly a republican.
2. Again according to Waliad Shoebat, when the consulate was attacked, one of the attackers was yelling “Don’t shoot we’re from Morsi.” It’s almost like they had an invitation and forgot to RVSP their reply.
Benghazigate is not as complicated as it appears. The drone video, if it’s ever released, will clear up a lot of the confusion. Wretchard is right however; Washington is really worried about the next shoe to drop.
I’m wondering how many Democrats are hoping Obama will lose and Benghazi will become a moot issue? How many will put the shaft to him to insure that he loses?
None of this explains why Woods and Doherty were using a laser designator. If they had sent up the surveillance drone in the first place then they certainly knew it was unarmed. This seems to eliminate the possibility that they observed the drone and lit up their target on the hope that the drone was armed and could come to their aid. There must have been something else up there that they thought could come to their aid. If not the unarmed drone, then what?
If in fact the Benghazi “embassy” was really a CIA front of some kind, engaged in some clandestine spookery, here’s a possible shocker: the Obama administration, knowing the 3rd debate will force it to disclose stuff that is damaging to both its political interests and national security, contacts Romney secretly before the debate and spills its guts. The Romney camp concludes that (l) there really are genuine national security issues involved which should not be splattered about in the debate format and (2) that its own political interests will be adequately served by the inevitable inquiry of the press and the blogs. The result is an agreement to avoid the subject in the debate, even though the moderator teed it up for Romney with the very first question. This would explain the otherwise inexplicable failure of Romney to clobber Obama with it in the debate.
Re: JMS at 50
Michael Yon has a fascinating discussion on the use of laser designators at:
http://www.michaelyon-online.com/painting-the-target.htm
Re: JMS @ 50
But who controlled the drone? If they sent up the drone, that would imply control, it instead of just access to information from it. It may have been armed, I haven’t heard definitely one way or the other. And who should I to believe anyway.
too many words, I know. I’m over here in XXXX Africa though and this is personal.
Every embassy has CIA folks. They are outstanding annalists and perform essential duties. The number of agency folks depends on the location and missions. In Benghazi, a major effort was the collection of weapons. The Consulate was a DOS facility. Security was a DOS responsibility – end of discussion. The RSO (DOS) requested more security and was denied. Sure, the agency had contingency plans for its folks, but the responsibility to protect everyone was DOS. They should have requested support from all available assets
If Obama hadn’t lied and had correctly stated the fact that trained terrorists attacked the consulate in Libya and murdered the ambassador, a majority of the Muslim community would have been on our side.
Instead, lying and attributing the attack to a previously unknown video has incited some of the Muslim community against us – we’ve lost support due to the lies from the president, CIA, DOS, and DOD.
The embassy folks over here feel betrayed and abandoned by the administration – they won’t say it publically, but the result is that more hide in the big embassy’s and therefore know less about the real world. Stevens and many other career FSO’s are/were willing to go outside the wire into the chaos – the DOS’s job was to protect them – a job they INTENTIONALLY failed to do. Many, many people need to be fired over this, starting at the top.
—–
Al-Qaeda has become stronger and more popular during the past two years thanks largely to the failed drone attack program. The drones have killed hundreds of civilians – making the US hated and despised. Without prisoners to interrogate, we have no accurate intelligence.
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I live in a Muslim community here in XXXXXX (call-to-prayer from the 4 mosques within ear shot is going on as I write this).
I know the local people, talk to them, buy their fruits and vegetables, and help teach their kids english.
The question I keep getting asked, is why would president Obama lie about the Libya attacks?
My only answer, and it’s a guess, is that he wishes terrorism would magically go away and naively expected it to once he was elected.. A horrifically dangerous belief.
A more accurate interpretation of “Arab spring” is “Arab enlightenment” – a radical off-shoot of Salafist Islam that mandates the destruction or conversion of all who do not strictly follow Islam… a perverted view, used by terrorists to severely impose strict sharia law and rationalize jihad.
My neighbors here are scared of that outcome as we SHOULD be.
They just want to raise their families out of poverty and are looking for leadership.
Instead of international relations and policy, we have an empty US public affairs machine – prattling about, internationally naive – involved only in the president’s re-election while ignoring a growing disaster that he helped propagate.
Things are getting worse over here.
The middle east and northern Africa are ready to explode, and when it happens, it will make the Afghanistan and Iraq wars look like a scraped knee on the playground both in $$ and cost of American lives.
Judicial
http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2012/10/16/take-two/#comment-223743
http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2012/10/16/take-two/#comment-223831
Mitt was advised to entirely drop the Benghazigate angle for the third debate — right here at the Belmont Club.
There is no way on this Earth that 0bama could deign to co-opt the Romney campaign with such a high risk gambit.
Please, bring your A game, or be thought a Moby.
Old Crow…
Please comment on this posting:
http://adinakutnicki.com/2012/10/31/more-bengazigate-mysteries-meandering-into-shia-iranian-territory-irrespective-of-sunni-brotherhoodalqaeda-involvement-islamists-of-all-stripes-cooperate-when-necessary-commentary-by-adina/
She has some astounding links to MSM articles not previously given any prominence.
In a nutshell: Barry has been trying to astound the electorate this October with a diplomatic coup… which blew up 9-11-2012.
Blert:
Please read Wretchard’s admittedly speculative analysis in the post “The View From Benghazi” on Nov. 3. His view is the same as mine, substituting giving Romney an “intelligence briefing” for my “spill their guts”. Neither his speculation nor mine necessarily conflicts with the theory that Romney may have calculated that going after Obama on Benghazi might not pay off politically. I happen to respect your posts, but on this issue maybe we should have a chat about A games.
The thing that is not in doubt is that Obama has lied for 7 weeks.
And, the ‘movie critic’ mob was a politically useful and total lie.
What is amazing is the extent to which Obama has had his administration throw themselves in front of him to protect him.
Hillary has taken the blame.
Panetta has taken the blame.
Chief intel guy (whatever his name) has taken the blame.
In the end Petreaus demured.
Question is, is there a motivation here more powerful than Obama’s Osama (and Al Qaeda) is dead and GM is alive political narative?