The Obama birth certificate is now in a secure place where it is viewable by only a single person: Alvin Onaka.
More than a month before Donald Trump began his media blitzkrieg over the issue of President Obama’s birth certificate, the document was quietly moved to a more secure location within a dual combination-key lock safe inside the state’s health department vault.
The certificate was moved there by Alvin Onaka, Hawaii’s State Registrar, in response to what had already become an increasing number of media requests by FoxNews.com and others, according to sources.
Advertisement“It is my understanding that the book has been placed in a smaller locked container in the same secure safe,” Chiyome Fukino, who served as Hawaii’s health department director for eight years until last December, told FoxNews.com. “The safe is still in the department.”
Fukino and others claim the additional security measure reduces the number of people with access to the much-sought-after document from a handful to just one: Onaka himself.
According to a Hawaii Department of Health website, Onaka is a distinguished archivist.
Onaka is a graduate of Iolani School and received a doctoral degree from the University of Massachusetts at Amherst as a Population Council Fellow in Demography. He has done postgraduate work in Epidemiology at the University of Minnesota. Nationally, he is an adviser to the National Death Index and chaired the U.S. Standard Death Certificate Revision Committee for the National Center for Health Statistics, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Locally, he has been on the affiliate graduate faculty of the Population Studies Program at the University of Hawaii at Manoa since 1982. He also serves on the Health Science Advisory Committee of the Hawaii Chapter of the American Cancer Society.
Will this end the controversy over Obama’s birthplace? Probably not. The birth certificate debate is going to become like a wrangle over the authenticity of a religious relic or an eternal mystery object, like the Grassy Knoll or Area 51. Most documents are accepted based on trust, not their physical characteristics. We are offered a dollar and take it unless some previous predisposition makes us examine in with special light, do serial number checks or look for security threads. For the most part trust suffices.
Since the birth certificate is unlikely to be subjected to tests for age of paper, ink intensities or compared to a reconstruction of all the serial numbers, all the skeptics are ever going to have is a glimpse of Obama’s dollar. That is all most of us have: an assertion of authenticity by normally trusted authorities. Obama’s supporters will argue that any demand for further proof — tests that we ourselves would not routinely be subjected to — is tantamount to treating him like a felon. It springs from a pre-existing bias. They would be right. The reason people have been looking for the birth certificate isn’t because they mistrust official birth certificates in general. It is because they mistrust Obama.
At least part of this mistrust springs from the reticience of Obama himself. He has cloaked his school records and civil documents in confidentiality and it was normal to wonder at the contents of a locked box. It is impossible to understand the birth certificate drama without realizing that was never about the birth certificate document. It was about building or destroying trust in Obama.
Obama could use it to build up trust in himself via the False Pricker gambit, after the medieval occupation of those whose job it was to find the Devil’s Mark — an area of skin that wouldn’t bleed when pricked. Trump was the Pricker. Obama could face him confidently because he was in control of the physical evidence. He was the casino dealer with a card face down on the table; and Trump was the gambler daring him to turn it over. But it was his card. He had the advantage of knowing what the card was, or at all events, what he could put there. By getting a Pricker to dare him and showing it to the lady to his right to announce to the world, he was now able to claim that all subsequent challenges to his honesty — requests for school records, legal documents, etc. — were equally invalid. The good news for President Obama is that he looks to have won this hand. The bad news is that he has won it over Donald Trump.
Trump is expendable, and quite logically provided the service of being the Forlorn Hope, that sacrificial body of men who, in the Napoleonic Era, led the first suicidal charge against enemy walls. Obama has trumped the least dangerous gambler at the table — Donald Trump. But the rest are unlikely to be dismayed. For one thing, critics will note that Obama didn’t pass around the card. He merely passed around a photocopy of its contents. Why shouldn’t this be enough? Because the restriction of the source data to Onaka or a small group of people opens him to the “Nazi on the Moon Problem.” That is when you claim a thing to be true based on evidence that you alone or your close associates can actually see.
The normal way of disproving a negative is to show the absence of collateral. Suppose one asserted that Nazis were planning to retake the world from somewhere. You could disprove that by collateral. “If substantial groups of Nazis were plotting to retake the earth, then we would detect their extensive preparations. Since there are no detectable preparations, then these groups of Nazis probably don’t exist.” But that problem is obviated by asserting the Nazis are on the dark side of the moon. Then we couldn’t disprove the negative since the events take place in a place we can’t see (ignoring the fact that we have imaged the dark side already). Therefore the man who asserts he has proof of NaziS based on a classified photo (whose original imagery you are not allowed to directly examine) would be difficult to disprove because the evidence pro or contra is restricted.
But the underlying problem is the outrageousness of the proposition of a Nazi plot. Some people find it incomprehensible that a politician they loathe as much as Barack Obama could be born in the USA. Therefore they are convinced that he is a fake. Obama’s ultimate exit from this problem is not more documentary evidence but to convince voters by his demeanor that he “acts American.” Once that is established, the issue will vanish. For Obama’s foes the problem is the reverse. As long as they keep up the level of distrust in Obama, documents don’t really matter either.
That circumstance means that the birth certificate issue won’t die completely, any more than theories about the JFK assassination have ended. They will not die because most documentary proof is really based on trust. And that was the problem to start with. Nevertheless, Obama has temporarily leveraged the BC issue to beef up trust in himself, which is what it is all about. Major politicians will avoid the birth certificate issue, even indirectly from now on.
But the Forlorn Hope has done his job. Trump has astutely observed that he has nothing left to lose. Donald is therefore going to say: “Since you’ve released the birth certificate, why not the school records?” The Donald’s biggest advantage is that unlike most of us, he has no fear embarrassment. Like a freak, Trump makes money from exhibitionism. He doesn’t mind being laughed at. That just boosts the ratings. Like Gaddafi, he has no obligation to give up just because he is expected to. So he may keep plugging away and the president may find that Trump will eventually recover and create another demand, to which the president will be forced to respond by releasing more and more and more data.
Hard-core skeptics of Obama should take comfort in the fact that if the birth certificate is a cover-up, every cover-up leaves tracks often more obvious than the original hidden fact. The thing about the fraud is that all the data must remain internally consistent. The more is Out There, the more that inconsistencies may show up. Some people trust their instincts. When Groucho Marx met Lord Buckley on “You Bet Your Life,” the smooth manner of his guest prompted him to ask:
Groucho: “Have you ever been in vaudeville?”
Lord Buckley: “Yes sir, I toured vaudeville for quite some time, sir.”
Groucho: “Well what kind of a racket are you in now?”
Lord Buckley: “At the moment sir, I’m working for a magazine called Dig. … I’m a professor of Hipology. I’ve been translating the works of the old masters such as Poe, Shakespeare, Lincoln … into the very instant of today, and on the fence of now and on the path of the avance.”
Groucho: “That’s wonderful … You look like a very wealthy and successful confidence man.”
Lord Buckley: “Thank you.”
The Donald has been following his instincts. Will he follow them to the end?
“No Way In” print edition at Amazon
Maybe Trump’s demands for the school records will shrink that vaunted IQ by a dozen (or two) points.
That would be Obama’s IQ. Maybe Trump’s too, come to think of it.
Another salient aspect of this entire bidness is that it’s gotten elements of the Right in-fighting with each other. The more Beltway-centric types have been scoffing and tut-tutting all along. Even now, the chatter is exploding across Righty blogs. “It’s a fake.” “Oh shut up already it’s over, I told you so.” On and on. The Lefty blogs are simply taking it all at face value and declaring anyone who ever had the slightest doubt to be racist/crazy/evil/etc.
The next step is that the social pressure on “birthers” will grow greater and greater, and they will be painted as completely nuts because, after all, the proof is right there! Not a bad job of it, really, on Obama’s part.
Or anybody with a saws-all and some time.
Does this story need to be updated?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theticket/20110427/ts_yblog_theticket/white-house-releases-obama-birth-certificate
Trump is expendable, and quite logically provided the service of being the Forlorn Hope, that sacrificial body of men who in the Napoleonic Era, led the first suicidal charge against enemy walls. Obama has trumped the least dangerous gambler at the table — Donald Trump.
Well, that’s kind of what I thought Trump’s greatest utility was … not as a viable candidate, but as a kamakazi, if I may use that term. He might sniff at the comparison, since HE appears to think he’s a viable candidate, in which case he had/has no intention of going down in flames while taking Obama with him.
But, functionally speaking, he is as you say expendable. And there are circumstances where an inability to be embarrassed or scorned into silence is an asset. I believe this is one such circumstance. Only The Donald, due to his high name recognition, could be guaranteed headlines by stirring this particular pot … as opposed all those other, what, 50+ million Americans who have similar questions but could not command a single headline short of an act of extreme gore & mayhem, or losing a $300 million winning lottery ticket.
Finally, the hard core skeptics of Obama should take comfort in the fact that if the birth certificate is a cover up, every cover up leaves tracks often more obvious than the original hidden fact.
One of the possibilities that occurred to me was that there was/is no original document in the Hawaiian records, period. When you consider the possibilities, this one seems to be the most natural and straightforward explanation (in an Occam’s razor fashion) of some of the more puzzling questions that people have been asking all along. Such as:
… If a long-form document exists, wouldn’t the easiest course for Obama be to just produce it?
… If a long-form document exists, wouldn’t Hillary’s people have turned it up?
… If a long-form document exists, wouldn’t any number of GOP investigators or organizations have turned it up?
… If a long-form document exists, wouldn’t *some* government drone in Hawaii, *somewhere*, have leaked it? I mean, how hard would the cell-phone pic on the internet be to accomplish, given the guarantee of a bombshell story and insta-headlines one way or the other? wikileaks?
The odds of an existing document of this high-level of interest, in a state health records department archives, being unseen by every human being on earth, besides Alvin Onaka (and Chiyome Funkino, depending on which statement of hers you are reading), have to be stupendously astronomical. Which is to say, it is the combined odds of all of those questions above.
OTOH, the combined odds of all those questions above returns to some sort of normalcy if we remove the starting assumption that that “something” exists.
It is far, far easier to believe that the strenuous efforts of some of the most powerful people and organizations on earth, will be able simultaneously both to suppress completely and to fail to turn up (depending on the interests of the specific person or organization) something that is NOT there … than it is to believe that all the king’s horses and all the king’s men, were able simultaneously to suppress completely and to fail to turn up something that IS there.
But, yeah, it all comes down to trust. Americans were asked to put an astounding level of trust in Barack Obama. A significant portion of Americans have refused to do so. Now Americans are being asked to put trust in Alvin Onaka, who is “vouching” for Barack Obama.
Wonder how THAT will turn out? Will Onaka get the Joe the Plumber treatment from the media, ya think? (cue SFX of hell freezing over)
next step is that the social pressure on “birthers” will grow greater and greater, and they will be painted as completely nuts because, after all, the proof is right there! Not a bad job of it, really, on Obama’s part
Well, maybe, maybe not. If the original exists and he really was born as the digital long-form attests, then sure.
BUT … and I forgot the mention this point in response to Wretchard in my comment above … if the original does not exist, then Obama has just doubled down in an exceedingly dangerous fashion. (Behavior not unlike that which he has exhibited in other situations under pressure.)
Because it’s one thing to foot-drag and stall and refuse to come up with “X” if “original X” does not exist. You are essentially putting nothing forward. And nobody has to “vouch” for anything, because there is no-thing to be vouched for.
However, it is quite another thing to put “X” out there and to have someone then vouch that “original X” does in fact exist because they have seen it. Because you have now moved from suppression of a non-existent X, to production of an X that someone with a name and title and job and family attests to the existence of.
It’s the principle of, “You can’t hit what isn’t there.” The oppo can flail away on and on into eternity and never get a piece of that no-thing.
But when some-thing appears, there is always a chance, even if it’s a slim one, that that some-thing can be grabbed hold of/unraveled (or whatever phrase you like).
Whatever explanation is the truth — the original cert exists or it doesn’t exist — the stakes for the birthers, now that some-thing has been put forward, have changed by, what, maybe a factor of 2? It’s twice as bad for them if they are wrong, twice as good if they are right. OTOH the stakes for Obama have, with the some-thing, changed by a factor of … 10? 50? 100? Certainly a much, much greater amount, exponentially, than they have for the birthers. If he is telling the truth, it is a big effing victory, to paraphrase Mr. VP. If he is not telling the truth, well … I do not want to hazard the wrath to come if things unravel for him. But it will certainly be worse than anything we have seen in the closing stages of any POTUS in history. You kind of have to look at examples in other countries for a glimpse of what an enraged populace does in response to that kind of betrayal.
As I have no crystal ball I can’t say that the posting of the digital long-form will resolve anything or make the issue a moot point heading into 2012. Obama is right that there are plenty of other things to worry about … he’s just not right that that means what he thinks it does.
Re: the “layered” PDF that someone mentioned (quoting SmokingGun) on the last thread, I have Illustrator, but on another computer. If I can remember I will open up the PDF in Ill and see what happens. Just because I am a curious geek.
Karl Denninger claims that the Obama birth certificate PDF has been modified, refer to:
http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=185094
Also refer to:
http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=185101
I looked at Denninger’s evidence but it didn’t seem obvious to me. Supposedly if you review the PDF with Adobe Illustrator then the evidence is clear cut. Could someone please do that and comment?
Like every other part of the O regime–dis bidness be odd & bass ackward.
If the President has presented a forgery it will be the best that money can buy. Therefore an elementary mistake like the layers issue is unlikely. The real weak point is the collateral. In this any skeptic should work with an open mind. Never prejudge the truth.
But detective work is expensive. Any investigation into President Obama’s past will cost millions to do properly and will probably bring questions from the Secret Service.
About the only hope for a real break, assuming there were something to discover, would be via an informant involved in the cover-up. But such an informant would be taking a tremendous risk. It’s a pretty daunting proposition.
Probably the best approach is to work in the normal electoral manner against President Obama’s policies. Once a politician weakens, his secrets begin to leak out because the men around him are often opportunists who are looking for another ticket to ride.
When I read that only 38 percent of Americans were confident Obama was born in the US, I found it quite surprising. I think the White House found it both surprising and troubling.
Of course some of the 62 percent who were unsure would gladly vote for a foreigner. But I’d say the great majority are leaning against. The problem is perhaps worse than that, since a substantial portion of the 38 percent who believe he was born in Hawaii (such as myself) will still vote against Obama in 2012.
I’m not sure releasing the BC will help Obama with his problem. The BC question is more a surrogate for “is he one of us?” I think he will continue to give evidence that the answer is “No, not really.” This goes to the heart of a lot of matters. For instance, the Press can say that Ronald Reagan wanted to share “missile defense” secrets with The Soviet Union — but everyone knows Ronald Reagan was one of us, so he would bargain hard for a good deal. Obama, not so much.
The press will now tell 62 percent of the Country that they were taken in. But taken in by who? Why did the White House wait so long to release the document? And why were we being given all sorts of excuses by the President’s supporters (That the State of Hawaii got rid of the paper records and so on) that did not pan out?
I suspect the Birth Certificate Trap was set for the McCain Campaign in 2008 but McCain never raised the issue (or any other, for that matter). They decided to save it for 2012 when “the right wing extremist base” would be pushing the nominee to run on it until the nominee was forced into it — and would come off like a Kook when the BC was released. Now it looks like the trap was about to snap shut on them, so they pulled the trigger early.
I agree with hdgreene that the heart of the matter is not the birth certificate, but the sense by many that Obama is “not really American” in the way he acts. I feel that way about him even with my very expansive notion of what constitutes being an American. To me, even many of the people hauled before Joe McCarthy were fundamentally American in character and outlook; Obama, and his wife, are, to me, in many respects, not fundamentally, comprehensively American in outlook and worldview. Add that to the apparent dislike by the Obamas of the American people. The Obamas don’t seem to fundamentally like most of us; they don’t necessarily hate us, but they consider the majority of us Americans to be flawed and in need of both correction and direction.
Obama’s transparent indifference towards, and ambivalence about, American greatness is what puts many of us off.
Eggplant -
Here’s YouTube video presenting the layers in Illustrator:
http://tinyurl.com/6jha5hw
Those are indeed layers, that is indeed the AI icon at the top left.
BUT
In the interests of fairness, we don’t know that what the video is showing is EXACTLY the file downloaded from the White House site (purported to be the one with the layers). IOW we don’t know that the person posting the video on YouTube did not create the layers him/herself after DLing a non-layered PDF from the WH site. Layering the file after download would not take that long to do. Most of the layers in the YouTube video are straight cut & paste items that could have been done with the rectangular marquee tool or the lasso tool.
FWIW, I DLed the PDF from the WH site earlier this afternoon and immediately opened it up on Photoshop 7, which is the only graphics app I have on the computer I have with me today. (My computer with the CS4 is at another location.) There was only 1 layer to the file in Photoshop.
The remarkable thing about this document is how utterly unremarkable it is. The left has been claiming the “long form” was some kind of super-secret document that never sees the light of day, but this is just a regular birth certificate, like millions of people use every day to get driver’s licenses or passports. It tells us exactly what Obama has told us about himself.
So why didn’t he release it, with some bemusement, at first request? Because he is obsessed with controlling information about himself. His control of his image is the basis of his success. For a long time we were told we would see this document when hell froze over, but so it has. It was widely accepted, by mainstream conservatives as well as liberals, that anybody who wanted to see it was a racist crank.
Trump, being rich and notorious, can say things the average man can’t. He has browbeaten Obama into releasing his totally innocuous birth certificate, maybe he will succeed with the transcripts as well. A precedent has been set….
Could it be possible that Obama’s stubbornness on the birth certificate issue is not part of a grand strategy, but merely a side effect of his narcissism? How dare those peasants question the authenticity of the Great One – he does not have to prove anything! Just a speculation.
Obama Takes Stand Against “Silliness”
WASHINGTON >> Responding to critics’ relentless claims, President Barack Obama on Wednesday produced a detailed Hawaii birth certificate in an extraordinary attempt to bury the issue of where he was born and confirm his legitimacy to hold office. He declared,
“We do not have time for this kind of silliness.”
Only a racist might wonder why he thought we did have time for the past 2 years.
Likewise, only a racist would recall John McCain producing his birth certificate over 2 years ago.
—
—
Left Wing Birds of a feather:
“President Obama’s mother and father were dear friends of mine, and we must respect their memory. It is an insult to the President, his parents and to the Office to suggest that he was not born in Hawai‘i. The State of Hawai‘i has done everything within our legal ability to disabuse these conspiracy theorists. We granted the President’s request for certified copies of his birth certificate so we can all move on from this unfortunate distraction and focus on the real issues affecting people today.”
White House releases Obama’s birth certificate
We are so blessed to have Neil Abercrombie as our Governor.
His first significant act in office was to increase spending (despite a huge budget deficit) to the benefit of…
You guessed it:
The Unionistas
Could it be possible that Obama’s stubbornness on the birth certificate issue is not part of a grand strategy, but merely a side effect of his narcissism? How dare those peasants question the authenticity of the Great One – he does not have to prove anything! Just a speculation.
That’s a real and reasonable possibility. (1) He is not used to being challenged on his qualifications but instead to being waved on through because he’s so darn special. (2) He does not have a high regard for the plain wording of the Constitution. (3) He was the one we were waiting for, dammit!!!
Excessively exalted view of self + excessively low view of the Constitution = “I don’t need to show you no steenkin birth certificate!”
That could be all it is, yup.
It’s just … to drag the thing out for *three years* ???
Speaks of a remarkably impenetrable skull. And ego.
Yikes.
As a side-show to the side-show, how is the father determined on a birth certificate? Obviously, the mother is in the hospital having a baby. But where do they get the father’s name? Do they just accept what the mother says? Do they take some kind of tests to prove paternity even if the “father” is willing to claim paternity?
Might not Obama Sr. have had some very good reasons to claim to be the father, namely a fast-path to US citizenship? This is 1961, well before the Act that Ruined America (the Immigration Reform bill). The path was not easy for an African at that time. Maybe that was the plan, then O Sr. changed his mind.
The whole purpose for the complex background graphic on a birth certificate is to make erasure and other changes apparent. Look carefully. There are several places in the document where the back ground graphic is not continuous.
What a fraud. It is almost as though “they” don’t care.
As an tangential aside, has any one besides me noticed the merging resemblance of the various protesting Leftists and Orcs from Lord of the Rings?
In other Trump News from Hawaii:
Fusion Group Hiroshima will perform at Japan benefit which will be held at the Trump International Hotel in Waikiki.
Curiously, they do not perform Jazz Fision.
Eggplant@8
twobyfour@60 in the previous thread broke the layers down.
link
bogie wheel @ 13 said:
“In the interests of fairness, we don’t know that what the video is showing is EXACTLY the file downloaded from the White House site (purported to be the one with the layers). IOW we don’t know that the person posting the video on YouTube did not create the layers him/herself after DLing a non-layered PDF from the WH site.”
Denninger claims that he directly downloaded his copy of the long form birth certificate from the Whitehouse. Denninger also claims there is now a non-layered version that was released by Associated Press (AP). I just downloaded my own copy directly from the Whitehouse and ran Diff between it and Denninger’s version. The two copies were identical. Again, I don’t have a copy of Adobe Illustrator. Could someone at Belmont Club please download the original copy from the Whitehouse and check it with Adobe Illustrator? If the PDF is indeed layered as Denninger claims then someone in Obama’s staff is either a blithering idiot or setting up Obama for a fall. George W. Bush had to deal with intrigue from people within the Intelligence community (the infamous NIE) so it wouldn’t surprise me if Obama is also having to deal with this sort of stuff.
If the President has presented a forgery it will be the best that money can buy.
That does not follow, he’s arrogant (and stupid) enough to have been conned in buying his forgery, or not to care. I don’t think he’s clever enough to to have presented a forgery on purpose. Talk about your forlorn pricks.
But what I dialed in to do is offer a defense of Donald Trump from the charge that he “looks foolish”. As the good teachers like to say, there is no such thing as a dumb question. That may be an exaggeration, but it’s good in spirit. If you want to see something, the first step is always to ask for it. If you’re in business, don’t believe a claim until it is audited, and if the statement says there are fifty boxes of widgets in the warehouse, then someone needs to go to the warehouse, count the boxes – and open a sample of the boxes, and count the widgets therein. This is NOT something that “looks foolish”, this is standard and competent best practice, and you should not trust any businessman who does not follow such practices.
cough
Madoff
cough
This is of course EXACTLY where our so-called MSM fails today. They know things because they know, they are skeptical only of their political opponents, they are credulous to an absurd degree when it comes to their friends.
I am rather bothered by this “layers” business. I don’t much care where Obambus was born, I’m just hoping he was born and not hatched or assembled by nanites from the planet Jihad. I remain somewhat dubious on the facts of the matter.
As for The Donald, I hope he keeps it up, and I assume that he will. Now, does this good business practice translate to politics? That’s where I’m not sure he has the chops.
Aristide @ 21 said:
“twobyfour@60 in the previous thread broke the layers down.”
Thank you, I should have checked the earlier threads.
So the question stands: Is someone on Obama’s staff an imbecile or is this evidence of intrigue within Obama’s staff being waged against Obama through release of an obviously modified birth certificate? Given how quickly the fraudulent Dan Rather documents were uncovered by the Internet, it’s hard to believe this modified birth certificate is simple stupidity.
It is difficult for me to make such comments as must be made without sounding A) off-topic and B) reactionary; but since Wretchard quite properly brought up the subject of trust, all indications point to the fact that this discussion has now “gone meta,” to use the au courant terminology. We are no longer really talking about the birth certificate itself, but about the ontological wellsprings of power and the highly symbolic act of vesting authority.
Here is the situation as I see it. What sort of man Barack Obama is should have been obvious from the very beginning. It is revealed in his character, his actions, his speech, his physiognomy, his relations, and in all the other modes which we typically use to “size up” a person. Prudent people knew from their first glimpse of him that he was a dangerous manipulator, and that was enough to determine them against his candidacy. Since the danger rests in who he is not where he was born, there was no need to wait for a resolution to the birther controversy. The content of his character, as per MLK’s famous dream, had already disqualified him in the minds of the sober.
The angst of the birthers (I hate the unfortunate term—I am using it only for brevity’s sake) therefore cannot reasonably be attributed to a simple concern about the constitutionality of his election. In seems to stem instead from something like the following reasoning: “Barack Obama is just the sort of man who could mesmerize large numbers of the young, the unwary, the foolish, and the wicked; besides which, he has the entire PC, race-baiting, transnational Marxist machinery at his beck and call. We know exactly what he will do if in power, and the vision is horrible to contemplate; yet a crooked fate makes us look like the bad guys if we say so openly. Such conundrums are the inevitable crosses of trying to live like true conservatives in the modern world. Therefore it is necessary to expose him by some innocuous method. He has given us reasonable grounds to suppose that he does not meet the constitutional criteria to be elected president, and his character suggests that a lie on this score is not altogether out of the question. Let us press the point!” Of course, I am not suggesting that these words accurately reflect anybody’s conscious deliberations on the matter. Rather, this is what the birthers’ prudential decision-making would look like if it were translated into prose.
I’m going to go out on a limb here and submit that it may have been the wrong decision to make. The constitutionality of Obama’s election is not really as important as they’ve made it out to be. “Aha,” they might say, “You don’t think it is important that we might have been able, on constitutional grounds, to block this destructive individual from ever wielding one iota of presidential power for the bane of America? And to expose his aspirations, and those of the entire Leftist movement of which he stands at the head, as an edifice built on lies and deceit?”
No, I don’t. For everybody already knows such things about the Left, and the Left goes on anyway. In this particular case it might have made a difference, to the disgrace of one lone individual; but the Left is full of disgraced individuals, and the Left goes on anyway (as often as not, the disgraced individuals, too, go on anyway).
The crucial point was raised above, when we described Obama as “just the sort of man.” The sort of man to do what, exactly? Well, the sort of man that the preexisting Leftist machinery could use for its old familiar purposes. You see, Barack Obama is a type of Nazgûl, a creature hollow and fell. What he is in his own nature doesn’t matter so much. He wanted power and was ensnared by it long ago. Everything he is, and everything he does, can be referred to his principal, the Dark Lord whom he serves.
The real problem is not that a man like Obama became president, with or without a birth certificate (for the Leftist machinery could ever generate another candidate, and the defenestration of Barack Hussein Obama, even had we been able to arrange it, would not have done it any lasting harm). The problem is that we live in a world where creatures like Barack Obama are even thinkable in the first place. In order to be rid of them for good and all, we must destroy the One Ring from whence his power issues, the power of the Left itself, i.e. the power of modernity.
How did we end up with an Obama in charge? Certainly decades of Leftist agitprop and institutional reverse racism had something to do with it; but behind them lurks the darker spectre of democracy itself, that pernicious doctrine which holds that people who could not name the last five presidents should have a hand in choosing the next one. Yet the Overton Window slams shut on the tongue of anyone who dares suggest that democracy itself should be reevaluated—hence the difficulty and absurdity of being a conservative in the modern world. Apparently, even conservatives must hold to the maxim that the Enlightenment was just fine and dandy up until about 1920, or even 1933—it was only after that that things got out of hand. But as a matter of fact, politics in the Western world have not been “conservative” since at least 1789, and the adumbrations of that upheaval go back all the way to the 1650s.
Thus, I am not overly concerned about the constitutionality of Obama’s election. Being a Monarchist, I do not feel quite bound by the canons of the US Constitution anyway, since the document itself is irredeemably revolutionary. Whatever the means by which Obama rose to power, the fact that he rose to power is a verdict on the state of American democracy, and the verdict is one of rigor mortis. The task before us is to create by living example, and by the hard work of real-world politics (as opposed to the electoral variety), the kind of world in which just and free men can live in. We can only do that by recognizing that there can never be any rapprochement between freedom and modernity. The modern state is nothing but bureaucratic tyranny, be it in communist, socialist, or republican forms. Throughout human history there have been any number of tolerably contented subjects. There has never been a democracy that lasted much longer than two centuries. You do the math.
Any and all of you can download the Whitehouse PDF itself at http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/birth-certificate-long-form.pdf
It’s a Whitehouse.gov domain, so it is the public copy of record. You will see it is signed by “Alvin T. Onaka”
Save it as PDF on your local machine and open it in an Adobe reader and zoom to any degree you could reasonably want. The “layers” have been explained as software artifacts caused by the way Adobe Illustrator converts a scan into an image. The “discontinuous” pattern referred to in the comments is the whitish background which seems to surround typed letters and printed parts of the document. This may also be an artifact of the scan, though I am not sure on either count.
I would not get my hopes up about finding evidence of a forgery in the scan. After all, if this is a forgery it should be the best that money can buy.
Moreover if it were a forgery then Obama has put his whole political career, not to mention his personal liberty, in the hands of a middle-level bureaucrat in Hawaii. This to me is the biggest objection to it being a forgery. When you start getting down to specifics, and specific custodians, the risk of fraud rises exponentially.
Is it real? The physical evidence available is slight either way in comparison to the real proof, which is trust. If we trust Hawaii, it is real. That is what it comes down to.
13. bogie wheel
PS makes it only one layer due to its rendering engine for PDFs. AI is able to parse eps format (which is the base for PDF), and you can see the layers and the elements in it. In the previous post, I linked the bounding boxes image and the layers. For how long that would be the case–that is to see the layers in AI, hard to tell. Someone connected to WH may do a quickie on the PDF file and merge the layers, and then claim that the layering has been a “birthers manipulation”.
There are other things that raise some suspicion, beside the layers.
See 8. Eggplant
The “layers” have been explained as software artifacts caused by the way Adobe Illustrator converts a scan into an image
You mean explained away. But that is a bogus explanation. If you import a scan into AI, it is one continuous layer. You have to separate the elements either manually or by using filters.
There may be another explanation, but only for 2 layers, not 3 with more than 2 elements.
One thing is very funny. I guess it may have been a seal of authenticity that the cert is really from HI. The signature at the bottom — U K L Lee.
It has been already noted that the hospital name is wrong.
Kapiolani Hospital changed its name in 1978…
It was originally Kauikeolani Children’s Hospital…
in 1961…!
WHAT A GOOF.
Other errors: ‘Caucasian’ was atypical. In Hawaii the term of art was White or Haole. I’ll give you odds that no other COLB will show up with Caucasian listed.
The number doesn’t sequence properly, either.
And to think that this is the document that the Governor of Hawaii swore he couldn’t find!
W
Barry should ask for his money back.
The Nordyke Twins BC on WND has “Kapiolani Maternity & Gynecological Hospital” as well, so I don’t think the name is inconsistent, also “Caucasian” is used in the Nordyke case. The serial numbers, however, are earlier than Obama’s despite being born later, but that may be because of some recording artifact.
But this is an issue that will “never die” because the problem is one of trust. If you don’t trust, you will never believe. If you trust, you will believe almost anything.
29. blert
The name of the hospital is appearing on other certs from that period. So is the “caucasian”. So these two items are correct. I am not entirely sure about “african” race, though.
The number is out of sequence, that’s right.
Josh:23,
You sound like a programmer. That which is not tested, breaks when the first customer touches the keyboard. That which is tested waits until customer support has gone home for the night.
1. Momma was a U.S. citizen, so then so is Barack; John McCain wasn’t born on U.S. soil either.
2. Forget the layering.
BUT BUT BUT BUT!!! The document released by the White House has an element of present-day p.c. in it!! Am I the only one seeing this???
Look at the father’s race! In 1961 his race would have been reported as NEGROID, not “African”! (Choices: Caucasian or Caucasoid, Negro or Negroid, Mongoloid and Australoid (or something like that). “African” is not a race. Look at the Duck of Death.
Matt@25: Prudent people knew from their first glimpse of him that he was a dangerous manipulator, and that was enough to determine them against his candidacy.
Curious to know who those ‘prudent people’ were. The rebuttal position is that George Bush – and the Republican Party – lost more than Obama won. 2008 was anti-incumbent all the way. Obama surprised – no prudent assumptions required – he shocked the country with his rhetorical and political acumen. I do not believe that people – prudent or otherwise – saw it coming. The expectation was that Hillary Clinton would win the nomination and the election, McCain being a non-starter, and suffer the inevitable after-effects of a significant recession such that 2012 would be a Republican shoe-in. It was a give-away strategy – except they gave it away to an unknown quantity. And now the base wants a take-back. Not particularly sporting.
We can only do that by recognizing that there can never be any rapprochement between freedom and modernity. The modern state is nothing but bureaucratic tyranny, be it in communist, socialist, or republican forms.
Very intriguing statement(s). The money quote take-aways. (A thread on that subject might be interesting.) I may post further thoughts later, if I can pull them together. Too many distractions right now.
blert@29
Susan Nordyke’s 1961 Hawaii birth certificate lists Caucasian.
I don’t think the issue is about the validity of the birth certificate, but about our trust in him.
As far as the birth certificate -as many are already pointing out – there are problems with it, in its semantics, in its terms, etc. Again, that’s a red herring.
The real issue is that Obama’s refusal to release it,and the many reasons given for such a refusal, including that it was illegal in Hawaii to do so (???!!)..and his equal refusal to release his school records (both marks and entrance forms) suggests that he is hiding something from the public.
This sense that he is hiding some data from us – and that he’s gone to great expense to do so – is the real problem. It has led to the public view that no matter what Obama releases – since he has withheld all documents for so long – we do not know whether we can trust him to present the truth.
This is the real situation – that Obama has lost the trust of the American people. Along with this, the public has become aware of a basic pattern with Obama. He lies. Constantly. More and more, his lies about data, about policies, about his agenda – are becoming public. We daily hear and read about the contradictions in his speeches that he makes to different audiences; we hear about the false data he presents to bolster his opinions, we listen to his accusations that we are ignorant or bigoted or biased if we don’t agree with him.
For Obama to chide the public that his birth certificate is trivial and that there are more important problems in the US to deal with….and then, to leave this scolding of us to go tape an interview with Oprah and then, on to a campaign fundraiser …insults the American people. We know there are more important things, such as the deficit which Obama ignores except to fob it off to another commission (which he will ignore as he ignores other advice from other commissions); there’s the economy and jobs; there’s gas prices; there are the wars; there’s his specious promise that the US will ‘protect all humanitarian violations anywhere’ (he’s ignoring Syria among other places)…Instead, Obama zips off to what he likes to do: campaign and preen on TV shows.
So- it’s all about trust. Trump is playing an important role. He’s like the little boy who, unlike the adults who were too ‘correct’ and afraid to tell the truth – he can indeed say: ‘But the King has no clothes’. Trump has nothing to lose; he’s saying things that no-one else can say. For Obama to crow that he’s ‘trumped Trump’ by releasing that certificate is nonsense.
Obama is on the defensive; why didn’t he release it two years ago? What was the reason for hiding it? And what about the other documents he’s not releasing? Basic result: the American people no longer trust Obama.
RE: 33 Talnik
Can any Belmonter produce another Hawaiian birth certificate from the early 1960s where “African” is used as answer to the racial category? It would be interesting if this designation were unique.
The LA Times quotes a democratic strategist who says the President made a big mistake in releasing the BC.
“Now there’s no question that’s off limits.” That was the ground that President Obama conceded. This means that he cannot argue, from principle, that he has a compelling interest in keeping documents which ought to be innocuous, like school transcripts, out of sight. He’s let Trump’s camel put his nose in the tent.
Of course he didn’t do it because he felt like it. He did it because his poll numbers were falling. This ability to “get at” Obama’s inner information may be the biggest outcome of this event. The Democratic Strategists know this. From now on, people can ask questions and they can no longer respond by saying “you’re crazy”, because the comeback is, “not unless the President is”.
I know that scary pole numbers were coming out of Iowa…
And perhaps some attempt was being made to demand COLB certification for all primary candidates…
Which would have put the Resident into a quandary; it’s a primary he can’t afford to miss.
I still don’t get the impossibility of discovery by the Governor of Hawaii.
I still don’t get the impossibility of discovery by the Governor of Hawaii.
This is the continuing mystery of the mismatch between what is expended on defense vs the value of what is being protected. Why put a bitty birth certificate like that (assuming it is what it is) in a special safe? The safest place for the BC to be is in plain view.
You will recall Poe’s “The Purloined Letter” where a secret document is simply hidden among ordinary papers. “Nothing is more hateful to wisdom than excessive cleverness”; to hide something worthless or ordinary is to attract attention to it.
And that was what Obama did until now, if he has done.
Hence the BC became a magnet for curiosity. Even now, why is it in a safe? The best thing to do, if one wanted to make it completely harmless, would be to offer it for inspection to a delegation of doubters. This was Christ’s method. “And when he had so said, he shewed unto them [his] hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.”
Maybe the real strategy was to give nothing away. To establish the principle that all of his information was privileged. The BC was important only insofar as yielding on this matter meant yielding in others. It was about controlling information, not the specific info. This is a mistake. By trying to classify too much, Obama had to yield to a request which could not be justifiably refused.
Matt @ 25 – Democracy should be reevaluated. It does not work well, at least in the manner that we have practiced it. Once unprincipled politicians realize that they can bribe the public using the treasury, the public’s own money, it is doomed.
We see that unfolding, painfully, day by day. Representative republic, that was the master plan which was soon foiled. We elect wise people, electors, who select a wise person to be pres. and vice-pres.
Wise leaders have to make some very unpopular decisions on occasion. Decisions that the man-in-the-street opposes, but which he can be enlightened to appreciate.
I don’t trust Obama, but always thought he was born in Hawaii. I think the whole BC issue is a red herring to avoid disclosure of something else. Likely his grades, but perhaps something more damaging such as a status as a foreign student or going by the name Barry Soetoro. I believe The Donald forced BHO to play his hand sooner than he would have liked. Now, if one were really cynical–or if BHO were really devious–the WH could release a subtly doctored version of the actual BC, but without changing any information, to keep the controversy alive. At some point–if they were backed into a corner again–they could allow Hawaii to release the original which matches the doctored one. As long as the BC controversy survives, BHO can deflect away from all the other records he refuses to release. I’m convinced there is a bombshell in there somewhere. Unfortunately, like with John Kerry’s medical records, we may never find out because the lamestream media is in full protection mode. BHO is certainly banking on it. We should accept the BC as authentic and more on to the next subject–his grades. Like W suggests, pound him on the conventional issues as well and wait for a rat to flee the sinking ship.
By the way Matt, good job. Excellent exposition!
e @ 32: You sound like a programmer. That which is not tested, breaks when the first customer touches the keyboard. That which is tested waits until customer support has gone home for the night.
You know programmers who test stuff? Must be old farts … like myself.
Cynicism is so last-millenium. Whatever it says on Facetube, s’truth. Anyone who questions, only does so because they have an agenda. Fanatics. Tea-party types in their tri-corners waving match-locks.
Auditing is last-millenium, too. Doesn’t apply to the likes of AIG, or the Fed. Don’t even know why I brought it up.
–
Saddam wouldn’t let anyone look for WMD in the basements of his private palaces, see how that worked out for him.
Were there ever any WMD there?
We may never really know.
“Obama is right that there are plenty of other things to worry about”
None of them as important as this. If he isn’t legal, there are serious issues with any of the bills he has signed, his appointments, his use of violence on the international stage, etc., etc..
The best part of this issue is that it places the burden of proof right on his in basket. His handlers are trying to shift that burden to his detractors. Nice try, no joy. If he is a ligit POTUS, he just has to release his BC. Notice he hasn’t done that. He instead offered up another E-forgery and claimed it’s the same as releasing it. Nice try, no joy. Releasing it means allowing 3rd paties access, Forensic Document Examiners to test the Original.
If I had the credentials and a few million to spare, I would open an office in Honolulu and offer 10,000 to every citizen born on the 3rd, 4th, and 5th.
Figure Honolulu had a population of aprox. 100,000 in 58. Even screwing like crazed weasels, that is only 50,000 babies born in a year. 990 a week, on average, give or take. Lets guess 120 a day, max. I expect the actual number would be less then 100. so 3 days would be 300 BC’s, roughly. That’s 3 mill. Plus air fare, office rent, hotel, Mi Tia’s, laundry, etc.
Fox could clear this up in a week, if they wanted to. Any MSM could. So they don’t want to. Given a hundred or so BC’s, the numbering scheme would be obvious.
What do you want to bet the number on the Won’s BC belonga a dead guy? What took 2 years was finding a dead guy’s number to steal. The lists for Birth Certificates and Death certificates are not automated. Some poor bastard had to go thru Every Obituary between 1959 and 2008 looking for somebody born on Aug 04, 1958. The other way would have been to walk grave yards looking at dates, then combing the Obits.
That poor bastard earned his money.
This method leaves an audit trail, in the form of a request for a BC.
Notice they waited until what the MSM has decided is the biggest story of the century (The Royal Wedding) to release it. Trying to bury it in the flood of news from London. Nice try, no joy.
I still don’t see how some Germanic warrior wedding an Anglo-Saxon barmaid is news. It has to have happened over 100 million times since 1066.
It’s not like they are real Royals. Real Kings say go hither and their subject hustle off. Prince Charles says go hither and his subjects yawn. A real King would have had Di’s head removed with a sharp bit o’ steel. Course I didn’t know who Lindsey Lohan was until her 3rd incarceration.
Several on this board have espoused the view that “Birther” ism is driving away voters from the right. Why do you say that? I have met very few people in the last few months, liberal, center, or conservative who like President Obama and are willing to vote for him again. No one answers a pollster with any thing but support for him, however. The race card still prevents open honest opinion for many. Donald Trump is like the little boy who points out that the king is naked. Wait until the actual election, or perhaps even the Democrat primaries…
25/Matt
That was an outstanding exposition of a fascinating perspective; not sure I’m ready to chuck it all for monarchy, however.
re:…You see, Barack Obama is a type of Nazgûl, a creature hollow and fell. What he is in his own nature doesn’t matter so much. He wanted power and was ensnared by it long ago. Everything he is, and everything he does, can be referred to his principal, the Dark Lord whom he serves.
And if he is indeed as such and no mere man may destroy him, perhaps it’s our cue to fetch a sword and blond wig for Sarah “Eowyn” Palin to do battle with him… /g
I did quite a bit of desktop publishing long ago, with many hours logged on these vector-graphic publishing engines like Adobe Illustrator. I’m stunned that the White House is touting a layered pdf document as a faithful copy of an original document. There is no way that’d stand in court, so easy to shoot to pieces. Either a human created that document, or an OCR-type algorithm deconstructed it from a raster scan. There’s a blow against veracity any way you cut it. This is a strange way to settle a matter, it only invites more questions.
Off topic:
Price of silver took a big jump today, refer to:
http://www.kitcosilver.com/charts/24hoursspot.html
Today, the Bernank seemed to indicate that the money printing will end in June.
Are people assuming this is a lie and that money printing as QE3 will continue?
Pamela Geller/Atlas Shrugged has suggested (like Bruce #42) that the Birth Certificate hoopla was a “look over there, a squirrel” distraction. The real interest should be in the Passport, esp. the one used to travel to Pakistan in the 80′s. Several of the candidates historical passports were tampered with during the 2008 election(McCain’s too), perhaps erasing something unsavory from the future presidents document in the jumble.
Trump, who contributes (heavily!) to democrats, and supports Hillary Clinton, is painting the right as earnest buffoons while slyly inserting the “China is our enemy” meme into the “too crazy to take seriously” category.
Let’s say this latest document from Obama isn’t legit, and also suppose that it could be proved conclusively that he is not a natural born citizen of the United States. What would happen?
He still is the President of the United States, even if that’s ill-gotten. One, and exactly one way, exists to remove him before his term expires. Impeachment. A court, even the Supreme Court, could rule that he did not meet the electoral standard, but still he’s got the office and there’s only one legal way to get him out and that’s out of the court’s hands. The Congress has to impeach him.
Would the Senate do that? I bet not. The Democrats argument would change to, “eh, that’s an antiquated part of the Constitution, anyway. They were worried about royalists, … No big deal.”
If it were established that Obama were born in Kenya, this would only provoke a Constitutional crisis that could very well end up going quite badly for lovers of the Constitution.
That’s how screwed up times are.
Aw, c’mon, blert, poles are never scary. germans, on the other hand ….
I think the mother’s signature is suspect. Note how “Ann Dunham Obama” (an oddly modern way for a married woman in 1961 to name herself) is full size, and then “Stanley” is prepended in tiny hand atop the main signature as an afterthough. Ordinarily people don’t forget their first name in a signature.
Mel @ 50 said:
“Trump, who contributes (heavily!) to democrats, and supports Hillary Clinton, is painting the right as earnest buffoons while slyly inserting the “China is our enemy” meme into the “too crazy to take seriously” category.”
It worries me that Trump has a hidden agenda and might actually be supporting Obama through some convoluted way. Yes, I know Hanlon’s Razor makes this unlikely and the most reasonable explanation is that Trump is simply a screw ball with lots of money.
Maybe off topic…maybe not. Secrets, secrets, secrets. Do you all know what happened 50 years ago today?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yrjegvc6Z64
Things that make you go, “Hmmmmmmmm!”
Good that Gen Petraeus is moving to greater things
He will focus upon American fundamental interests and dump the Levant
America gets most of our oil from Canada, Mexico and KSA
KSA is buying $ 60+ Billion of US defense products–good for American families–they are in the club.
We need nation building at home and in Mexico–to make it a functional state and increase its GDP and energy exports to the US.
The future for America is the Anglosphere + India and Mexico.
The Levant is toxic and MENA irrelevant
Time to build American interests and wealth and dump the parasites and leeches in MENA
My guess is that Trump has enough money to buy off any of the conspirators that were bought off by Obama’s people. When he said his people were finding fascinating stuff in Hawaii, that triggered the Obama camp to spring into action and cobble together a document that seems authentic. I highly doubt Obama has a birth certificate in Hawaii because all evidence points to him being the son of Frank Marshall Davis. He was most likely born with a different name or not named at all. I suggest readers google more about this guy’s relationship with Obama and his family because there are some pretty fascinating theories about Obama’s origin and paternity.
Ok, now I’m convinced. Victor is a bot. He posts the same thing no matter WHAT the topic at hand is.
Onaka sequestered the original because of so many requests to see it? This makes sense if it is the policy of the records department to refuse requests from everybody. But why would they do that? I would think it would be their job to make documents available upon request. Or was there a prior restraint imposed before the requests started rolling in? I almost get the feeling that the sheer volume of requests hardened the Keeper’s resolve to deny access as he then locked it away in a safe within a safe. Sounds like something out of Bizzaro World.
But wait a minute. Let’s do a little comparison shopping here. Was McCain’s BC similarly sequestered? Seems not. But perhaps the Keepers of his records, realizing too late, having already shewed forth the his BC, that it was futile to re-hide what was already extant and gave up the attempt.
And rolling the shopping cart further back along the aisle, how was it with Bush, Kerry, Gore and their predecessors? Were their BCs requested? If so were the requests granted or denied? How were they verified if indeed they were?
While still a very young man my wallet containing my Social Security card was stolen and never recovered. I had memorized the number so I was never at a loss for it until one fateful day I was laid off from my job. So I went down to claim Unemployment benefits while I searched for a new job. But I couldn’t get them because my SSN was registered to one Luis Olivares or a person with some such name. I was required to obtain a new card. In order to get a new card I had to produce a birth certificate. Luckily my Mom had it, so I was able to do so. Ironic that I had to produce my BC to get unemployment bennies, but would not have had to do so get elected Prez.
Go figure.
I’ve often suspected that the birth certificate thing was just a piece of rotten meat Obama was holding in reserve if the wolves got too close so he could throw it to them so as to make his escape.
I’m no fan of the Trump, but I was more than pleased when he started asking for Obama’s academic records. That, I think, is where the real poison lies. Did Obama go to college claiming he was a citizen of another country? Did he cash in on scholarships that were reserved for non-US citizens? I have heard rumors to that effect. It would be interesting to know the truth of the matter one way or another. If he engaged in fraud in his early days it will be a lot easier to believe he continues to be one to this day and time. And that might put an end to his political career.
And revealing his grades might put a stake through the heart of the common meme that the One is some kind of genius intellectual.
Yep–forget about the birth certificate. Go for the academic records.
This is an interesting comparison of the Obama BC and an actual one from Hawaii.
http://gatewaypundit.rightnetwork.com/2011/04/critics-obamas-latest-long-form-birth-certificate-is-a-fake/
Just take a look at this one point. Look at the Obama BC where it shows the hour of birth. Notice how in the “P.M” the M is considerably dropped down. Now look at the other BC. They are exactly the same, other than in Obama’s the M is pulled a little closer in. Even the little touch of pencil or whatever it is over the M is there in both. Yet other capital M’s in the documents are not dropped down. So it wasn’t a flaw of the typewriter.
Curiouser and curiouser.
I would bet that this is all misdirection. What Obama wants to hide is the circumstantial evidence that his grandma, mom, biological father, and stepfather were associated with the CIA and that mom and Soetero were on duty when some bloody ethnic cleansing was going down in Indonesia. It doesn’t mesh with the whole narrative of the “author” Obama.
bob @ 53:
I don’t see the mother’s signature as necessarily suspicious. Her name was typed in Box 13, which required the mother’s maiden name, as “Stanley Ann Dunham.” Assuming she went by Ann and not Stanley (gee, thanks, dad, for naming me after BOY! no wonder she had issues! commie parents aside …), then it would be quite reasonable for her first impulse when signing to write “Ann Dunham Obama.” It’s an official document, they are going for full names.
BTW that’s how my mom signed my birth cert, Christian name, maiden name, married name. She also had a purse that had monogrammed initials of all three of these names; the initial for her middle name was NOT included. The “(Stanley)” might have been added because either she realized or someone pointed out that the sig ought to include all the info of the typed name in Box 13.
peterike @ 61:
Yeah, I noticed the dropped-down “M” on both Obama’s and Nordyke’s long-forms as well. I ascribed it to the “M” being pre-printed, to spare the typist from an extra keystroke. (AM or PM is still something-”M”) The “M” is sitting about the same level (maybe just a smidge lower) as the words “Single” “Twin” and “Triplet” in Box 3, and the “1st” “2nd” and “3rd” in Box 4.
OTOH without more samples of BCs from right around that time (i.e. ideally ones from the same print batch) it is impossible to state with certainty that the placement of the “M” is a feature of the printing as opposed to the typing. The “M” certainly does not appear to be the same font as the typewriter. (Check out the capital “M” in “Male” on Obama’s long-form).
Tamquam 59,
How unsatisfying. Your story should read “my Social Security Number was registered to a Mr Olivieres so the next day the police broke down his door and dragged him off for deportation hearings while the government I pay for and empower as a citizen made sure that all my earnings and taxes were correctly listed in my accounts.”
Tcobb 60,
Agree with you about his academic records. His financial aid applications are what I want to see. My suspicion has always been that the BC was an Axelrod red herring. It could be a fake simply because Obama seems to derive his pleasure solely from daring people to catch him while he gives the finger. Just how crazy is he?
Does anyone remember the Belmont Club post Dynamite Memories?
This birth certificate fracas illustrates one reason why analog will always rule.
Yes, it all comes down to trust (but sadly not to verify).
Can anyone come up with a credible reason why Obama did not release the BC earlier? I thought it might be because it had a different name for “father,” or perhaps no name at all. Or perhaps because he was not actually born in the US. Now it has been produced. But why not earlier?
Yes, this is a “see the squirrel” gambit. There are three more important issues. The first is his passport. The second is his academic record. The third is the true authorship of “Dreams” — Obama or Ayers. And all three of these pale in comparison to the unasked question.
What are the criteria for “natural born citizen.” It appears that during the debate over the Constitution it was acknowledged that whereas someone could become an American Citizen by “converting” so to speak, the office of Commander-in-Chief, a main responsibility of the President, could only legitimately be held by a natural born American. That meant that the individual had to be born in the United States of parents who owed no allegiance to any foreign power. Thus at the time of a person’s birth, both parents had to be US Citizens.
This got confused when the 14th Amendment was passed. However, the legislative record during the debate on the 14th Amendment confirms the very same conditions. A person could become a naturalized citizen, and a person could be a native born citizen, but the third category — natural born citizen — was limited to a person born in US territory or territory controlled by the US, with BOTH parents owing no allegiance to foreign powers — in other words, both parents being US citizens at the time of birth of the natural born citizen.
President Chester Arthur thus should not have qualified. Although he was born in the US (not in Canada, as rumored) and although his mother was a US Citizen, his father was an Irish Citizen at the time Chester was born. Father did become a US naturalized citizen fourteen years later. But technically Chester Arthur did not meet the triple criteria for natural born citizen.
It was then that the blurring between native born and natural born was made precedent. Obama may be a native born American but his father (if Barack Hussein Obama II was indeed his father) was a British subject and therefore owed allegiance to a foreign power. Thus President Obama does not qualify as a natural born American.
Perhaps this was the reason the attention was placed on the birth certificate itself and the question became his place of birth rather than his qualification as natural born. If this is the case, Obama was brilliant and appears to have succeeded in changing the question from Constitutional Qualification to place of birth.
As another blog put it, this is a moot point for Obama but a very troublesome matter for the future. If we now disregard the “natural born” requirement and substitute “native born” instead, then it is possible for an enemy agent (think Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela, or anywhere else) to marry an American woman, have her deliver the baby in the US, move to a foreign land and indoctrinate their child in whatever ideology they want, then send him back to the US for college, and have that child be eligible to be President.
This is also part of the erosion through disregard of the Constitution itself.
Finally, does anyone remember the WW-2 movies in which an American unit captures a German who is pretending to be an American. The German can speak perfect English with a perfect American accent. So to tell the real from the false the soldiers ask a question like, “Who plays center field for the Yankees?” or “Who won last year’s World Series?” The fake American, knowing English and having studied American History still can’t answer a question that even the most ignorant real American of the time would know.
When the sitting President of the United States pronounces Arabic words but says he has visited all 57 states, when he leaves out key words from the Declaration of Independence that any school child born in 1961 would know by heart, it makes him sound as though he is not an American. Of course, he is technically American. But in the marrow of his bones and the depths of his soul is he American?
Some things just rob off on you if you are a natural born American, born in the US and with two parents who are American in all ways — technically and culturally. I think that still makes a difference. Will the voters feel the same way in 2012? We shall see.
eggplant @ 49: Today, the Bernank seemed to indicate that the money printing will end in June. Are people assuming this is a lie and that money printing as QE3 will continue?
The Bernank is walking a tightrope.
The Chinese want him to buy all their bonds, before the inflation hits and renders them worthless. The Bernank doesn’t want to do that. That’s why he’s announcing the end to purchases. Yet if and when he stops – who knows. And the Chinese can certainly unload them onto the fed through back doors, if the fed tries to keep purchasing on the QT.
Stay tuned.
When the sitting President of the United States pronounces Arabic words but says he has visited all 57 states, when he leaves out key words from the Declaration of Independence that any school child born in 1961 would know by heart, it makes him sound as though he is not an American. Of course, he is technically American. But in the marrow of his bones and the depths of his soul is he American?
Some would argue that is a “political question”. Whoopi Golberg, sparring with Donald Trump over the Birth Certificate said, “When you become the president of the United States of America, you know that he’s American.” There is in that, a hint of the argument that even if Obama were not American, the fact of his election confers it on him as a political act.
Part of the cultural subtext of the Birth Certificate debate is the division between those who think “the old way” and those who are beyond it all. For one set, the past is binding, there is a nation, a constitution and a country whose continuity must not be broken. For another set, that legacy is dead weight, the sooner ditched the better.
There is in some a conscious desire to extirpate the past, in part because they regard it as shameful. To destroy the past is patriotic. The “real America” lies in the future. It is what is to be built; what will be left after all the dross has been burned away.
It is sometimes asked whether the country can avoid a “civil war” of some sort. But from one point of view, the Civil War has been raging since about 1968. There’s a whole cohort of people out there, which probably includes Bill Ayers, and which may or may not include Barack Obama, that declared war on America from that point of departure.
You can put the “civil war” question thus: can the war started in 1968 be ended or must it, as Obama himself dimly implied, go on to final resolution. “We are within days,” he said, “of fundamentally changing America”. The question is not up to “dead white males” to answer. It is in part for people like Jeremiah Wright and Bernardine Dohrn to give reply.
I think the answer would be, “hell no I’m not going to stop!!”
What we may be looking at now is not the “civil war” but the counter-civil war against a political movement which has almost completely seized power. 2010 was to some extent the analogue of 1968. Obama is grasping almost literally for the Dreams From His Father, not the Kenyan Economist, but his intellectual fathers, but his true sires all the same.
I was reading the memoirs of a Tea Party activist who described his sense of “coming home” when he attended the first rallies, driven by the Rick Santelli rant. The parallel to Woodstock jumped out at me immediately. The same kind of signposting that had characterized the ’60s was happening again. September 11 for the Kennedy Assassination; the Dan Rather takedown, the Rick Santelli Rant, the Scott Brown upset. Instead of Chicago ’68 you had Madison 2011. What were these but the milestones of another revolutionary tide? How I asked myself, would the Birth Certificate incident be remembered?
It’s like we were in the current chapter of a book whose ending we hadn’t quite gotten to the end of.
64. Blast From the Past “How unsatisfying.”
The thought had crossed my mind. But it works, or can work, two ways. I could always go down to MacArthur Park and for $50 get a new ID as Jose Maria Buitre Pedorro and never pay taxes again.
“Can anyone come up with a credible reason why Obama did not release the BC earlier?”
What do you mean “earlier”? He STILL HASN’T released anything.
RELEASE means giving permission for outside experts to examine the ORIGINAL Birth Certificate. It doesn’t mean pony up forgery #2 and see who whistles and cheers.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
Some of us are not as stupid as the Obominatios handlers think we are. The MSM is.
Forgetting motivations, there are two kind of people in the birther movement:
1) A small group of people who realized at some point that the only reason the long form wasn’t released was that it can’t legally be released under Hawaiian state law but pretended that this behavior was sign of aconspiracy because they were already too deep in, or because they didn’t care about truth at all.* These people such as say Judson Phillips are guilty of perpetuating a deliberate hoax.
2) The mass of birthers who are victims of this hoax and it will be interesting to see how many of them are able to face the fact that they’ve been lied to and fooled by their leaders.
*Note, Barack Obama got a special exemption from the law in order to release this image, and only because he is already President and has the authority to exempt himself from some sorts of regulations. The demand that he produce this form before being elected was an entirely impossible demand, possibly deliberately so.
I notice that Mr. Fernadez talks like someone who is not facing that he was himself fooled into misunderstanding the reason that the form Mr. Obama originally produced was not the original document.
When will he admit that candidate Obama actually did not have the option of producing original document and the fact was reported even if it was ignored by the movement to whom it should have been the primary fact that disproved their interpretation of the situation?
Come on, face the fact and write a mea culpa like an adult.
#47 tharkun – I can think of some better Tolkein metaphors. Sauron? Easy – the King of Mordor a.k.a Saudi Arabia does nicely there. Morgoth is obvious. But the Voice of Sauron? Now, that’s where we differ perhaps. George W. Shrub will do nicely – with the controlling power and the temptation being petrodollars.
One Stone to rule them all, One Stone to find them,
One Stone to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the Land of Saudi where the Shadows lie.
Unfortunately, we don’t have Orodruin handy for that Stone. We do, however, have something hotter.
Joshua – I want a legal citation on that. While I’d expect that the State of Hawaii could not disclose the document without Obama’s consent, I’d like to know exactly what law states that you cannot disclose a birth certificate or make an image and disclose it.
Please do not link me to a news article or opinion column, I want the actual law.
You might want to have these people charged then. The Nordyke Twins Birth Certificate.
Wretchard, when was that photograph taken?
I suspect that Hawaii’s current confidentially laws are fairly new. Someone in blog comment gave a date of 2001, but I’m not sure of course.
It will take time for me to line up all the stories since I’ve never had any interest in this, but so far the stories seem totally consistent. Whenever someone has said that they they’re not allowed to release copies of this document it has been interpreted by birthers as proof of a conspiracy rather than the normal workings of Hawaiian bureaucracy, and I really don’t know why that is.
A 1 minute google search turns up this:
Sorry that my close blockquote tag did not work.
This radioshow is a source of some of the claims I made:
http://www.signorile.com/2011/04/conversation-with-birther.html
An incomplete account of an important story is mentioned near the end of this segment of Hardball http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697//vp/42788792#42788792
…
If you care about whether you’ve been fooled then you will take these as starting points to research. If you don’t then talking to you about it is a complete waste of time anyway.
Obama probably didn’t release it sooner for two reasons:
First, a petulant “Batches? We don’t need no stinking batches! I don’t have to show you no stinking batches” attitude. We’ll show you what we want, when we want to, and if you don’t like it tough. We won. If he was really worried about the silliness distracting the country he’d have released it long ago. It was just starting to dominate the news, so he had to do something.
Second, he thinks this is a winner for him. I doubt that, since the whole episode has made him look pretty small (although how much smaller he could look is an open question). Maybe if he played this card when it was most advantageous to him, but Trump forced the issue.
I am relieved that this issue is now at rest, because if it was found that he didn’t qualify, we’d have an incredible political crisis on our hands. And, for those who have doubts, this issue is at rest, and further attempts to push it by analyzing the BC for forgery, or whatever, will not be productive. He’s been pressured to release the long form, he has, and to most people that puts this issue to bed. Those same people were starting to have doubts, due to Trump raising the issue, but now I think most will be satisfied. Pursuing this any further is just beating a dead horse.
He’s got so many vulnerabilities it isn’t funny. It’s time for people to give this a rest, and attack him from a different side.
With the release of the COLB yesterday, I’m prepared to accept that the President was born in Hawaii. Still, I do wonder why it took so long and why so many conflicting stories were told about whether or not it was possible to release this document. Case in point, it appears that someone named “danae” was able to get a copy of her long form from Hawaii just last year. Another thing that puzzles me is how it was that the new Hawaiian governor reportedly couldn’t find Obama’s birth certificate earlier this year. Still, these are minor points of concern–for me at least. I want to see Obama strongly opposed and soundly defeated on the consequences of his reckless and half-baked policies. I want to see Republicans go after him hammer and tongs–just like Trump has done–but on the larger issues. Obama can be beaten here.
Does Hawaii ever release long-form birth certificates?
http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=285921
“‘Danae’ obtained her long-form, hospital-generated certificate of birth to win a $200 bet with another FreeRepublic participant operating under the username “james777.” The dare was for someone to prove he or she could get a long-form birth certificate from the Hawaii DOH after 2001, when the Hawaii DOH went electronic and agency spokeswoman Janice Okubo claimed the department quit issuing such documents.”
Mr. Obama did very well i hope now Donald Trump will calm up i think this matter will ends with this action (Release of Obama’s birth certificate).
Or did he?
Note:
Until 1980, all registered domestic births, as well as all re-registered foreign births recorded in Hawaii received a COLB from Hawaii. In 1981, Hawaii changed the law, and began issuing a certificate of foreign birth for babies brought to Hawaii from another country.
The birth certificate controversy is a proxy issue for other conflicts, the expression of something else. That is why people say that to question the BC is “racist”. That is not quite true. As someone with a Luo heritage wrote on my FB page:
“He wouldn’t have faced this if he were a *black* guy named ‘John Smith’ either” sums it up perfectly. If Colin Powell, Condoleeza Rice, Hermain Cain or even Jesse Jackson were in Obama’s place the BC issue would not come up. It is not about race in that sense. But it is about politics.
Obama rose to national attention on a narrative that emphasized and almost glorified the “international” aspects of his life. The BC was bound to be the dual, the flip side of the coin. Given his left wing politics plus the reluctance to release documents, that was going to happen.
And that brings us back to the BC itself. Is it real? All I can do is note the consensus of the gatekeepers, that ill-defined class of people who one presumes have real access to the facts, which includes people on both sides of the aisle and those whose opinions seem trustworthy. Personally I know nothing, nor will probably ever know anything directly about the underlying facts.
It is like dealing through a wrapper function. Access to the inner workings are denied and all that can be known comes through the interface, which appears to return a boolean value that the President was born in the USA. That’s the answer you get out of the wrapper function.
You may like or dislike it, but you have nothing else. I can conjecture whether this has been rounded from a decimal to a zero or one or think on the immortality of a crab, but it will only ever be a idle under the circumstances. As a practical matter the well is capped, absent any future developments, and that’s where it is.
What people do, if they don’t like the answer, is to change the wrapper function by electing a new set of politicians and get a new set of gatekeepers. Ironically that does not guarantee that you now will get the truth. You may never get the truth at all and ultimately the only question is whether you can live with what the wrapper gives you.
“When you lose the trust of the American people,you’ll damn well not get it back”
~Lyndon B. Johnson~
All due respect to The Donald for relentlessly beating the drum and causing such discomfort that BHO & Co. finally came up with yesterday’s BC document.
However, there may well be a second cause for the sudden appearance of the BC: Jerome Corsi is about to publish, on 17 May, a new book entitled, “Where’s the Birth Certificate? The Case that Barack Obama Is Not Eligible To Be President”. You may remember a previous book by Mr. Corsi (and John O’Neill), “Unfit For Command: Swift Boat Veterans Speak Out Against John Kerry”. I’m sure it’s message still burns bright in Mr. Kerry’s mind! I think that aside from Trump’s constant pressure and headlines, Obama and Axelrod were terrified of getting “Swift Boated” by Corsi. The timing of the BC release is perfect for sabotaging the Corsi book — probably too late to stop the presses and rewrite. We’ll have to wait and see how Mr. Corsi responds. Time will tell…..
The trust aspect hit the nail on the head. For me it’s not just the birth certificate, it’s a series of actions which belie his words – he’s consistently misled or lied about many things – or used obfuscatory techniques to explain away some odd aspect or another of his belief structure or decisions. So while the document looks real to me, I don’t trust him enough to believe there isn’t something else he’s hiding. I can’t even bear to listen to him anymore. When I read his speeches, they are illogical/nonsensical – I can’t finish reading them.
Trust is the underpinning of all society – most people are trustworthy. However, as the old adage says: “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.”
Not sure what it is like in the good-old USA, but in Australia, a full (long) birth certificate comes in handy for all sorts of reasons as you go through life:
Joining the Defence Forces, getting married and obtaining an initial passport are three situations where the full document has been “handy” for quite a while. Is the situation similar in the US?
Is so, then His Self would have a certified copy of his full “COLB”, as you call it, stashed with all the other family documents in the home safe.
When he travelled with his family to Indonesia as a US citizen, unless a suckling infant, he probably would have needed a passport, and the associated documentary trail.
What sort of supporting documentation did you need to get a driver’s licence whilst a young university student in those days?
THE END OF BIRTHERISM IS PRELUDE TO MORE TRUMPING
When Obama announced the release of his birth certificate yesterday he said that the Birther movement “bemused him.” Bemused him? More like it AMUSED him. Whereas most grownups in his place would have put an end to the “silliness” of Birtherism by quickly releasing solid proof of his US birthplace Obama instead encouraged it while childishly delighting in it. In the spirit of bipartisanship and empathy he allowed the Birther movement to grow and flourish for thirty months for the amusement and pleasure of seeing right wingers grope around in error. Indeed, this was on the same high plane as inviting Paul Ryan and the GOP to a speech on deficit reduction only to humiliate them. It is that disgusting.
Click my name to read the rest of his piece.
“…the birth certificate is unlikely to be subjected to tests for age of paper, ink intensities or compared to a reconstruction of all the serial numbers, all the skeptics are ever going to have is a glimpse of Obama’s dollar.” –Wretchard
I wonder what this means for the future of the US Dollar. Will it be mistrust and more inflation?
Gas prices are killing us as it is. More inflation would be the final nail in our collective coffin. All we need is Ponzi at the Podium for the foreseeable future to completely murder us.
The faster 0bama is out of Office the better. He has crossed the line too many times. I would think a smart lawyer would take him down.
Speaking of trust and ‘agency’ dysfunction, it looks like we’re having a real “Show me the Money” moment with Wall Street:
……………………………
All of this means that reputation is not much of a factor in corporate America.
This creates problems. In the absence of reputation, the government and regulators act as substitutes to ensure appropriate conduct. The government becomes the enforcer through civil and criminal actions for law-breaking. So what you get is more law to cover for lost reputation.
Those who criticize the Dodd-Frank Act for its 2,000-plus pages should realize that this is partly a consequence of the death of reputation on Wall Street.
There not only needs to be more law, but also a will to prosecute. As has been noted by many, financial crisis prosecutions are few.
But there may be no financial prosecutions because there is no law-breaking. It is here where reputation is still needed. Reputation is an important enforcement mechanism. Reputational sanctions ensure people act appropriately and fill the gap between poor or unethical conduct and law-breaking. It ensures that people are penalized for their mistakes and inappropriate behavior. It is the most important of oils that ensures that the capital markets work.
…………………………….
The subject also pertains to the relationship of freedom with the modern state. The abdication and outright abandonment of personal responsibility creates a void where State sanctions proliferate and the imbalance begins. As I have said before, 20% seems to be a good balance for this country. How to get back to that point will be tough.
w@82: Obama rose to national attention on a narrative that emphasized and almost glorified the “international” aspects of his life.
The suspect internationalism just nails it, raising issues of trust and loyalty to something, that in the case of Obama remains undefined and murky. I don’t really give a rat’s eyebrow about his religion (he can worship the crab nebula for all I care) but I am concerned that he is committed to policies that put this country first. Same for Congress. Same for Wall St.
The reason that Obama released his birth certificate was that Trump’s suicide charge raised the issue to the point where, like people do when there’s lots of counterfeit money in circulation, people start to examine the bills they’re handed. And the image of Obama’s long form birth certificate is not going to make the issue of trust in Obama go away. The perception is out there, despite the attempts of the media to make it look otherwise, that there is literally nothing about Obama that can be trusted. The demand for ever more of Obama’s sealed history will reside in the minds of the electorate, and will show up in votes at the ballot box.
71. Joshua Scholar
“I think behind all this smoke is a fire, but it’s not the fire you thought it was, it was opportunistic conservative operatives who thought they could continue a misunderstanding forever and it would never be cleared up.”
How Bogus. This “misunderstanding” is actually fraud in which the non-birthers are aiding and abetting. It can be cleared up with a subpoena. The FBI shows up with a subpoena and a team of forensic document examiners and a locksmith. They present the subpoena, the dude opens the safe. If he doesn’t, they put on handcuffs, take him off to jail and the locksmith opens the safe. Then the forensic documents examiners go to work.
This will happen. It is inevitable. Either it happens soon or it happens once Berry is no longer POTUS. It will happen. So why don’t we stop insulting each other and just wait and see.
If Trump wants to spend the money he can determine the outcome by the process of reduction by elimination. Trump’s achievment was forcing the disclosure of the control number.
Birth certificates come in packages of 500. they are shrink wrapped. They come that way from the printer. They are printed on special paper, using special ink that can be dated. While it is possible for the numbers to be out of sequence that will only happen on the cusp of a day.
The clerk finishes typing on the 4th, returns the BC pakage to the vault and calls it a day. On the 5th they come in, get the Package from the vault and start typing. Meanwhile, the documents from the various Hospitals and Doctors ( for home deliveries) come in and get placed in the in basket. On top of the ones they didn’t get yesterday. So the order is broken. But not by much. Not that many babies are born daily. Over a weekend it might mount up but there is still a finite number. So the out of sequence number isn’t proof of anything. It is a clue.
When combined with other clues (A grandmother who witnessed his birth in Kenya, A sister-in-law that witnessed his mother getting off an airplane with baby Barrack in her arms, the provable time line of his mother, the Birth certificate from Kenya, his desperate attempts to cover up and stonewall, plus other factors to numerous to mention show there is a mystery here.
That Mystery is the single most important issue facing America today.
Those that don’t think so see America as a place on the map, a big pile of dirt with oceans on the East and West. Those of us that see America as an Idea, a shining city on a hill, a dream delineated by the Constitution see this issue as an attack on that Constitution. A dagger in the heart of Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.
If Berry is an illegitimate President, America is an illegitimate Nation. Since there is circumstantial evidence that Obama intends the destruction of the Constitution, and therefore America, him being an Usurper is his ace in the hole.
Most of the Establishment is aware of the argument I just put forth. They won’t say anything because they fear a Constitutional crisis. Moral Cowards, one and all.
Trump isn’t a moral coward. He is also smart enough to have figured out the threat.
America is big, tough, and resilient. We have survived and prospered, coming back from previous bouts of depression, inflation, war, disaster, etc. bigger and stronger. We will survive Obama. So his hole card is that Constitutional crisis the Establishment fears.
The government in London finally got around to withdraw the Tea Tax after the political effects had already set in. Too Late. They too were going to be petulant about having to do it as well, compounding the consequences. The abyss of real history in our education system is staggering.
If it took 2 1/2 years to forge a document, I guess it is very valuable probably up there in price of the Mona Lisa. That must account for the high security. A person might have thought it not so important, since most of the world believes it was a forged document since Obama’s Grandmother claims She delivered him in Kenya and we certainly know that any member of the Obama family would not lie at all.
I am not a birther but after viewing the certificate I am puzzled by the term African for the race of Obama’s father. In 1961 wasn’t the term Negroe used for someone who is black?
I don’t think the president bolstered his credibility any with this performance. Trump is a clown, and Obama stooped to his level after playing silly, stupid games with the public for two years. Then he then had the audacity to complain about the distraction he could have made go away at any time.
You’d think an Ivy League grad could figure this out in less than two years.
there is some misdirection going on for sure. This document could very well be real …but as we see with the COLB was doctored.
there is no trust of obama but by his minions (STRANGE THING ABOUT THOSE MINIONS ..they blindly follow …yet what do they expect to get. do they want to be the jailers for obama? do they not know that Stalin’s gulags were fill with his faithful)
anyway the birthcertificate does prove that obama does not meet the constitutional natural born requirement. …not that the constitution means anything to democrats/marxist and a whole bunch of republicans.
Here’s another analysis of the birth certificate that O posted online
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eOfYwYyS_c&feature=player_embedded
Following declines over more than 20 years–US oil production turned up in 2008.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eOfYwYyS_c&feature=player_embedded
However, US gasoline inventories are at the bottom of their range.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2711717/posts
What I don’t understand is how can some people say the Obomber has refused to release his birth certificat and others are saying that the hospital does not release that information even if it is your own birth certificate? Apparantly Obomber had to make a special request and the Hawaii made an exception for him. If that is true how can anyone criticize Obomber for not releasing something a long time ago that it is not normally possible to obtain?
The Obomber has been accused of spending millions of dollars in legal fees to keep his past hidden. People making those statements need to provide more details about this because at this point it really does look like the leaders of the birther movement are not being honest with their criticisms.
The fact that the birth certificate is composed of layers may or may not be significant. Someone has to find out the process used by Hawaii for delivering the birth certificate to obama. Was it delivered as an electronic file? Did the Obomber scan it himself, etc?
If it is not generally possible to get a copy of your long form birth certificate then was there a special proces used to get the Obomber his copy? What was that process.
This BC debate is nothing more than a distraction to the real issues that face us a Nation. We can thank operatives from the Clinton Campaign for keeping this issue in the forefront since 2007 – 2008. If you do the research, all the people yelling and screaming about this issue all Supported Clinton. Donald Trump is the latest! He was a fundraiser for her, and a “good friend” as I found in doing some research people.
Qualifications for the Office of President:
Age and Citizenship requirements – US Constitution, Article II, Section 1
No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty-five years, and been fourteen years a resident within the United States.
Term limit amendment – US Constitution, Amendment XXII, Section 1 – ratified February 27, 1951
No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once.
Joshua @71:
Whoa! You are completely *wrong*. There is no law that limits an individual releasing his *own* documents, none at all.
Any confidentiality laws simply apply to the state releasing documents to a third party, absent some other legal mechanism, such as a subpoena.
He could have gotten a certified copy at ANY time, and done WHATEVER he wished with it.
I think a subpoena is an idea whose time came long ago — when this fellow ran for the office.
1) The White House didn’t release a paper document, they released an Adobe .pdf file.
2) There seems to be evidence that it’s a paste-up forgery. See the comments at American thinker
There seems to be some good evidence that the document released (which, BTW, is only an Adobe file, not a paper document) is a forgery.
http://comments.americanthinker.com/read/42323/812380.html
“Lots of people have already picked up many mistakes. The document when opened in Adobe Illustrator has pre-made layers which can not have been made by OCR software. There is also the unexplainable mix of bitmap (sharp-edged) and rasterized (fuzzy edged) layers. This is simply impossible unless the document is created. It also lists his father’s race as “African”. Yet this term was never used for racial definitions until it`s recent adoption as “African American” in the late 70s. The term used in the early 1960s was Negro or Negroid. This can easily be verified by finding another Hawaiian birth certificated and seeing if says ‘African’ or ‘Negro/Negroid’.” [Gozza]
Realistically, is continuing this issue more likely to hurt Obama’s re-election chances, or help them? I think it’s the latter. If so, then it’s time to stop, because a second term is not something I want to contemplate.
Interesting discussion. Posters on http://www.whitehousevoice.com are talking about this too.
98: “If that is true how can anyone criticize Obomber for not releasing something a long time ago that it is not normally possible to obtain?”
We are not talking about the Holy Grail here. I have one, don’t you?
“People making those statements need to provide more details about this because at this point it really does look like the leaders of the birther movement are not being honest with their criticisms.”
The issue seems to be more complex than what is being written about:
1) This “long form” was in possession of the WH. Why wasn’t Congress in possession of this “long form,” as part of “O’s” vetting process?
2) If Congress didn’t have this “long form,” how was “O” completely vetted?
3) If “O” wasn’t completed vetted, by Nancy Pelosi’s Congress and Congressional Election Committee, how was “O” allowd on States Ballots?
4) If Nancy Pelosi, as Speaker of the House, permitted an incompletly vetted candidate to be placed on States ballots wouldn’t this constitute a criminal offense?
5) If this rises to the level of criminal malfeasance, or misdeeds, isn’t both Nancy Pelosi and those on Congresses Electoral Committee be culpable, too?
6) Lastly, why are there two Birth Certificates for one only event (one in Hawaii, another in Kenya)?
Questions, questions, questions!!!! Not any have been satisfactorily answered.
My first thought when the BC was disclosed was that sadly Trump would be out as a repub primary contender. I sooooo wanted him to be in the race and bring the deserved derision upon the repubs that they so richly deserve. But now, reading the nonsense on display here, I’m buoyed in my faith that the rank and file of the repub base will so embarrass themselves about this nonissue and continue to display the paranoia typical of the conspiracy theorist, that the average, normal person would be horrified to in anyway associate themselves with such crazies, i. e. not vote for anyone they would vote for
98: “can anyone criticize Obomber for not releasing something a long time ago that it is not normally possible to obtain?”
I have a copy of mine….
“People making those statements need to provide more details about this because at this point it really does look like the leaders of the birther movement are not being honest with their criticisms.”
Provide more details? Like you mean documentation? Proove their claims? What a novel concept? But I’m not the one claiming I’m qualified for a job and insisting you “trust me”.
But what I dialed in to do is offer a defense of Donald Trump from the charge that he “looks foolish”. As the good teachers like to say, there is no such thing as a dumb question. That may be an exaggeration, but it’s good in spirit. If you want to see something, the first step is always to ask for it. If you’re in business, don’t believe a claim until it is audited, and if the statement says there are fifty boxes of widgets in the warehouse, then someone needs to go to the warehouse, count the boxes – and open a sample of the boxes, and count the widgets therein. This is NOT something that “looks foolish”, this is standard and competent best practice, and you should not trust any businessman who does not follow such practices.
Exactly! As Reagan said famously when he had negotiated arms reductions with Gorbachev, “Trust but verify”.
Secrecy is the life’s blood of conspiracies. Once infused with that blood conspiracies grow legs and becomes impossible to kill. A document that can not be examined is, for all intents and purposes, a document that does not exist! The extraordinary security restricting access to the original document, will only raise greater suspicion. I think the President committed an unforced strategic error. The “Birther” issue was more of a distraction to the Republicans than to him. Let’s face Trump was grabbing headlines, setting up a non-issue battle, putting the Republicans in a no-win situation. It would have been better to let that pot boil. Unless . . .
30. wretchard
“But this is an issue that will “never die” because the problem is one of trust. If you don’t trust, you will never believe. If you trust, you will believe almost anything.”
This post is only a meaningful conversation because we can’t trust gatekeepers of official information like Mr. Onaka to do their jobs without bias and corruption.
How did we get here?
The left has politicized government functions to their own advantage for decades – fixing elections, kickbacks, refusing to investigate voter intimidation and failures to send ballots to our troops.
And the cadre of government functionaries happy to access private records of Joe the Plumber or Senator Brown or you for the political gain of their party. They have chosen loyalty to the cause, the party, the candidate over their oaths to serve the public with integrity.
They have purposefully jammed the river of public service with their caustic bile and now the banks are eroded and collapsing inward.
I couldn’t agree more…been away from Belmont too long.
The author of “Where’s the Birth Certificate” is a very well-respected researcher who outed Kerry’s lies. He spent 3 years investigating the president’s history; we won’t know the results until late May. To comment at this time seems presumptive…..
Does it really matter now, since this president is un-impeachable? If we had not allowed the executive branch to evolve into a de-facto dictatorship, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
I linked to Wretchard’s article and post number 6 by Bogie Wheel over at Free Republic. See http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2711773/posts?page=76#76
I also note that as is clear on that FR thread, court dismissals of the ability to depose Alvin or any other Hawaiian official on the COLB matter were based on the assertion that there might be embarrassing information to Obama on the certificate. Will those cases now be re-opened?
Those case include the case of Colonel Lakin.
Peterike 18: I don’t think you’re actually right about the difficulty of a sponsored scholar from Africa obtaining immigration or citizenship status in the early Sixties. With the obvious exception of certain institutions in the South, universities including Harvard were happy to receive him.
That said, who knows if there was a “backstory” about paternity?
And, who cares? That isn’t any of our business. Obama can’t possibly be judged for things that happened before he was born. Nor should he be judged for the private choices of his parents.
Now, if only his supporters behaved this way, there wouldn’t be such intense feeling about things like this. But they don’t. Their political worldview is just as obsessively dedicated to projecting blame forward through history and culpability backwards. The birthers didn’t invent the political obsession with 1962: they were made patsys by it.
The whole thing was cleverly performed — by people with power who can afford to be frivolous, which includes both Trump and Obama. Trump played detective, arriving on Summerisle and demanding the truth. Obama smiled and lit himself — the Wickerman — on fire. For them, it’s just a performance: they both win. The rest of us lose.
What’s happening to the country right now reminds me very much of what happened in academia after the institutionalization of “identity” departments and “critical race/gender/post-colonial” studies. People are granted increasing power and resources in direct correlation to the claims they make about being persecuted and powerless. This economy of persecution requires the continual propping-up of persecution to demonstrate the urgent need to continue opposing it. And of course this is a zero-sum and very toxic game.
I’ve said all along: It wouldn’t matter if Obama had been born in Kansas at Noon on the Fourth of July. He’s still an Alien insofar as the ideals and aspirations of the majority of the American people are concerned.
The birth certificate has always been a provocation. Now the provocation will be developed as far as possible. Obama and his coterie may not be Leninists, but they have certainly studied the tactics.
w @ 82: yes the bc thing is a proxy, and by that same notion I (and others) are unwilling to grant him the benefit of the doubt. when the truth would seemingly be so simple to ascertain, one after another dubious assertion carries little weight – the feathers do not accumulate weight as they pile up. I don’t particularly *care* what the truth is, but insofar as I have any opinion on the matter, Obambus continues in his special mode of being just about as unconvincing on this as he is unconvincing on pretty much every substantial issue that he engages. that’s what makes it such a charming proxy.
How come Wikileaks can get state secrets but not Obama’s records?
WikiFAIL!
The scam has been committed and found:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eOfYwYyS_c&feature=player_embedded
The reason for the “natural born citizen” requirement that was written into the Constitution was to filter out candidates for President who might have dual or weak loyalties to the United States, to the Constitution, and to our form of government. To filter out anyone who was not thoroughly American in upbringing, character, and outlook. To assure that whoever became President had a deep knowledge and understanding of, appreciation for, and love of the United States, her people, and her customs.
The problem is that the accumulating and overwhelming evidence of his actions and statements are very clearly demonstrating that Obama is just such a “foreigner,” with little understanding of, loyalty to, or love for the United States and her people; the very type of person that the natural born citizen filter was designed to filter out.
In a 2007 interview with New York Times reporter Nicholas D. Kristof, Obama says that the Muslim “Call to Prayer” i.e. “Allah is the Greatest” is “one of the prettiest sounds on Earth at sunset,” and then Obama proceeded to chant the opening lines of the “Call” in what Kristof—a reporter covering the Middle East—said was a perfect Arabic accent—and the MSM ignores the story, and especially ignores the fact that the opening lines of the Call are the “Shahada,” the Muslim’s “Profession of Belief,” and that Muslim religious scholars consider reciting the Shahada—whether voluntarily or with a gun to your head, as happened to several U.S. reporters a few years ago in Iraq—makes you irrevocably a Muslim. Something that any Muslim and, I am sure, Obama knew quite well.
During the campaign Obama is videotaped refusing to put his hand over his heart when the National Anthem is played—he gets a pass from the MSM, Obama says that he has campaigned in all 57 States (curiously, although we do not have 57 states, there are 57 states in the Organization of the Islamic Conference), in a 2008 interview with George Stephanopoulos Obama refers to “my Muslim faith” and is quickly corrected by Stephanopoulos who steps in and says, “ you mean, your Christian faith”—the MSM gives Obama pass. Obama tells a roomful of Democratic donors in California that the people out there in flyover country–left behind by history–are bitter, bible-thumping, gun toting boobs, and his wife Michelle says that “she had never been proud of America” until her husband was nominated, and that American is a “downright mean” nation.
In what is still essentially a Judeo-Christian nation, Obama–the son, and step-son, and grandson of Muslims, who although educated as a Muslim in his childhood in Indonesia, (where he even took extra classes in reciting the Qur’an in Arabic, see above), and attending the white hating, pro-Muslim, anti-Semitic, and anti-American, Marxist, Black Liberation Theology church of the Rev. Jeremiah “God Damn America” Wright for 20 years–says he is a Christian, but ostentatiously favors Muslims.
Even before he became President, in 2006, Obama wrote on p. 261 of “The Audacity of Hope” that “I will stand with them [Arab and Pakistani Americans] should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.” Obama’s first interview as President was with the Muslim’s Al-Arabia network, he has de-emphasized the Christian symbolism of White House Christmas celebrations, but was perfectly OK with Christmas tree balls celebrating Communist mass murderer Mao Tse-Tung. Early in his Presidency Obama went to Cairo University to make a first ever speech to the Muslim world and in doing so, he prefaced it by a bold-faced series of lies, rewritings of history, and gross exaggerations about the contributions of Muslims to world history and culture, and about how Muslims had always been an important and essential part of American life. Obama brought “Muslim entrepreneurs” to the White House so that they could have direct access to department heads and to special aid and information—something he has not done for any other groups in our hurting economy. Obama has nonsensically told NASA that one of its primary duties is now to make the Muslim world proud of their “major contributions to civilization.”
And now, most recently, Obama’s White House neglected to release the traditional Good Friday and Easter Proclamations–something that every President does, but did remember to issue Proclamations for four different Muslim holy days/celebrations—Ramadan, Eid ul-Fitr, Hajj, and Eid al-Adha.
\
Need I say more?
@107. Albert
“I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky. I never told anybody to lie, not a single time; never. These allegations are false. And I need to go back to work for the American people. Thank you.” BC
The only mystery I want solved is who actually makes the decisions that run our country and our foreign policy. I do not for one instant think that Barack Obama is capable of such a massive undertaking. He is simply the front man. Trust? Would anyone trust the ventriloquist’s dummy?
http://tinyurl.com/2cxwwoe
This is the red herring that just keeps on working. The first guy I saw to debunk the latest BC asked the question: Why is this forgery so amateurish?
My answer was “To stir the pot because the old red herring wasn’t swimming fast enough on its own.”
Why release this now? What is new that needs the distraction?
Switching metaphors, Bummer’s handlers released a lame new bird for some fowl reason. To lead us away from something new in his foul nest?
With the release of this “long form” birth certificate, that makes all the defenders of the old “short form” as “the REAL birth certificate you birther” kinda hanging from a limb.
Given that this version has signatures on it, Bummer’s agents are clearly forging new relationships.
In my opinion, NOTHING IS NEW. The birth certificate issue simply has been a super effective distraction.
All who have been insanely occupied defending the little island principle of “constitutional eligibility” from the Bummer tsunami, have been distracted from all the other more substantial principles that have been and ARE STILL BEING washed away by this rogue’s wave.
Enough with the bad puns and chasing after the renewed red herring. Come to my blog and add to my list of principles and constitutional limit breeches by this fraudulent “defender” of America. Answer a resounding NO! to the question “Must You Fiddle While America Burns?”. Let’s get back to noticing the big items so we might have a chance to defend them and turn back the tide.
Open Blog.
I bow to nobody in distrusting little lenin, but on the topic of the birth certificate, it seems to me that the man had an American mother (albeit a communist sympatizer) and was raised in America (a few years before 10 years of age in a foreign country are hardly sufficent to obviate 16 or 17 years in America). Even if somehow the guy was born in a Kenyan or Canadian hospital, nobody suggests that he stayed in those countries for any length of time. I would be shocked if the Supreme Court, if it ever came to it, would rule that he is anything other than a natural born American Citizen. All the other theories rely on insignificant techicalities of his birth. The guy IS an American Citizen. Even Marxists can be citizens.
There are tons of mysteries in this criminal’s background. His citizenship credentials are the least significant of the lot.
In the field of signals intelligence, ‘traffic analysis – the study of who is signaling whom and in what quantity — can often produce valuable information, even when the messages themselves cannot be decrypted.’
I would like to warmly welcome the new cadre of blog commenter’s who have logged on to the Belmont club for the first time to raised their middle finger and proclaim ‘I told you so, so move on’. It is comforting that the information front of the cold civil war is so, well civil. The science is settled. It really is unnecessary that elections matter so much. Don’t we all hold the same moral convictions? That we can no longer afford to use oil as are primary source of energy, that social justice must be mete out against historical offenders, that the rights of gays and lesbians must be upheld and indoctrinated within our future generations less bible clinging Anglo fanatics deny them of their constitutional right to marriage?
I lived in San Pedro in the port of Los Angeles which is a bastion of International Long Shore Workers during the Gore-Bush campaign. The week before the election a small army of young comely lasses visited each bar where there was numbers of people hanging around They flirted amongst the crowd and made themselves seem available then decried for all to hear that they would not have sex with anyone that would vote for Bush. Having gotten their message across they soon moved on to new venues. I must say that I admire a movement that can politicize anything, even sex. In the end those who are wiling to corrupt and use violence without remorse will be the victors. Republicans have no idea what has hit them and they never will as they will be educated and bred out of existence.
Viva Obama!
@124. Pascal Fervor
Somebody once asked the questions, “Who do people say that I am?” and “Who do you say that I am?”
Such questions are not tangential, superfluous, distractions or red herrings. On the contrary, they are substantive and foundational. Indeed, they’re only red herrings for those who say they’re red herrings!
“He’s still an Alien insofar as the ideals and aspirations of the majority of the American people are concerned.”
I don’t understand why Obama is being demonized. I suppose his education was a bit elitist, on the other hand he’s no where near as elitist as the Bushes. Remember George Senior not knowing what a grocery scanner was?
“Does it really matter now, since this president is un-impeachable? If we had not allowed the executive branch to evolve into a de-facto dictatorship, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.”
More totally odd demonization. Yeah right, he’s Bashar al-Assad..
Then there was the commenter who called Obama totally evil then went on to admit to being a monarchist. Utter nut.
“Whoa! You are completely *wrong*. There is no law that limits an individual releasing his *own* documents, none at all.”
There is a claim being made that under the current regulations he would be allowed to see it, but not to make a copy or take it out of the building.
Looking at the claims and counterclaims about the long form I’m getting confused. On the one hand there’s an official publicly saying the Hawaii only releases the short form as a public document etc etc, on the other hand there are people who saying they had no trouble getting a copy of their long form.
Ultimately I have never cared, which is why I didn’t spend the time looking into this.
The perceptions of the birthers are really odd. One just told me that Obama has destroyed the legitimacy of America all over the world. Funny, I thought that Bush was supposed to have done that, and everyone was so relieved that he was gone that they stuffed Obama’s jock strap with Nobel Peace Prizes just for walking on stage.
I’ll try one last time.
The Birth certificate issue is the most important of our time. It is the root of ALL our other problems. It is a direct attack on the Constitution. Fix the Constitution and the other problems go away. Terrorism is not a lethal threat to the USA. It kills citizens in small numbers, yes but not the Republic. Indians scalped more Americans then the Terrs have killed. The Republic survived. Neither is the Deficit, Unemployment or Stagflation. America survived ALL those. The threat posed to the Constitution by An Usurper is the greatest every faced by America. It is an assault on the very fabric of our nation.
“average, normal person would be horrified to in anyway associate themselves with such crazies, i. e. not vote for anyone they would vote for”
Albert, Normal varies by sample. A second term for Obama would mean America in ruins. It will not be guys like you that rebuild.
Although no POTUS has ever won re-election under economic condition such as currently prevail. FDR was close but things weren’t as bad in ’36 as they are today.
pascal fervor,
“The birth certificate issue simply has been a super effective distraction.”
Exactly. Which is why Obama waited so long with releasing anything. It’s piss-poor from a leadership perspective, but it’s very smart, from a political perspective. And those who are keeping up with this are playing into his hands.
Sorry, but this doesn’t impune “birthers” in any way. This was a matter of trust period, and Obozo failed. He was to prove this BEFORE he ran, but tried to run a childish game instead. He’s one of most transparent presidents I’ll agree. He’s so phony we all see through him.
As an independent, I trust no politician at any level but I demand openness from all. Obozo is as poor as his policies.
New FOIA on BHO I out today. Via UK Guardian: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/richard-adams-blog/2011/apr/28/barack-obama-father-immigration-files
A posting of the immigration files: http://www.scribd.com/doc/54015762/Barack-Hussein-Obama-Sr-Immigration-File
Maybe THIS explains THAT rushed release yesterday.
Spun a different way:
http://www.westernjournalism.com/exclusive-investigative-reports/clearing-the-smoke-june10/
http://wasobamaborninkenya.com/1961%20Kenyan%20Birth%20Certificate%20of%20Barack%20Hussein%20Obama%20II,%20Copy.pdf
and finally
http://thedailypen.blogspot.com/2011/01/o-con-had-legal-help-from-non-partisan.html
I’m pretty confident Barack is a liar by induction. How about these guys?
AM@126: I must say that I admire a movement that can politicize anything, even sex.
In the meantime, As the World continues to Turn:
Here ya go.
And you thought you’d heard it all.
Actual truth is a more important facet of real life to only a subset of folks. Most folks insist upon adherence to the truth-narrative of their affinity group — their family, friends, school, social groups of various sort.
Many respect Ronald Reagan. Reagan’s most sage advice of all is quite short. It is this only:
“Trust but Verify.”
Three words. It is a method that redeems the dishonest and keeps the honest from falling down too far due to the normal temptations and rushed mistakes of life.
“Verify.” The birthers are right. And they are true to Reagan’s advice.
Joshua Scholar 71, 128: Somewhere in “Dreams From My Father” Obama is talking about pieces of family history, and says (whatever his specific subject was) that it was there in a box or a desk with other old papers, including his birth certificate. As I haven’t read the book, nor own one, I can’t cite chapter and verse. However, I’ve seen this quote raised a number of times to point out that at one time, Bam had a copy of his BC physically in his possession. This evidence, from the man himself, doesn’t make your comment look very good.
And why have a document that was the basic proof of who you were, yet were unable to access? What would be the point? Preventing others’ access, sure. But your own access?
Anyway, if you’re just a troll, sit under the bridge and chew on this shin bone, provided by Obama himself. Is it tasty? But don’t expect Sam Gamgee to make up a song for you, as he did for Frodo and Strider and the rest, back in troll country on the way to Rivendale.
I don’t know who said it originally, but it fits here: “ridicule is not an argument”. Obama, his followers, and even Rinos who criticize anyone who want to verify that the highest executive office in the world is constitutionally eligible are trying to win the argument through intimidation, embarrassment, and ad hominem attacks. But they are only showing their complete lack of character. To try to win an argument by belittling an opponent is not even worth replying to. And yet it is the way the world operates. Public opinion and popularity is how people measure value, not Truth. Another of my favorite quotes to counter the weakness of this type of argument is: “If everyone in the whole world willed to stand up, hold hands, and agree on the righteousness of something, God is not impressed”
The Right-wing–which this particular blog speaks for–tries to position its statement as though the rest of the political spectrum agreed with them. In fact, they fooled their audience into thinking this is true. But, it’s a false delusion.
We don’t think Obama has lost our trust by only recently procuring and releasing his ‘long-form’ birth certificate. If he had gone to this trouble sooner, he’d just be criticized for this action sooner and longer. He made a decision to not waste his time on the this matter, until now. And what do the what do the conservative reactionaries want to see now: His college transcript. What next? His drivers’ license? It’s never ending.
I’ve read the same comment regarding Obama’s long form birth certificate here and on other boards, regarding the ‘ethnicity’ label on said birth certificate.
Specifically, ‘African’ rather than ‘Negro’ or ‘Black’ which the latter 2 were the common terms/phrases at that point in our nation.
If anyone can provide reasoning to this I’d appreciate it.
What took BHO so long to unseal the long form birth certificate. This speaks
more to his opaqueness than his transparency.
Plus, doesn’t Hillary have her thesis sealed? Furthermore, I don’t think these are the only two items that are sealed.
So much for those who trumpet trust, for they don’t trust those who arrive at conclusions which are different than theirs.
1. Until last night, the only story I had ever heard about the legalities of releasing the long-form cert was that it could only be released to the person himself (the one born) or someone with a “tangible interest.” Now I see people saying that it could not be released to Obama without making an “exception” because he is president.
2. I don’t find the challenges to “African” very persuasive. It’s possible that some people writing official documents used “African” for actual Africans to avoid giving them the stigma of “Negro.”
Back in the 1950s or 1960s, the female owner of a restaurant in the South refused to serve a black African diplomat. When the press came after her, she said something like, “I thought he was an ordinary n*****. I would’ve served him if I knew he was a diplomat from Africa!”
quo warranto
There is a way for all the Natural Born/Birther issues to be finally solved and I would think we would be better for it.
Allow quo warranto to proceed in the District of Columbia. Allow discovery. In the end have the SC finally define Natural Born Citizen on appellate review.
This allows Congress to keep the issue at arms length, they will not have to associated with it directly.
Info on quo warranto:
naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2009/03/16/scotus-has-no-original-jurisdiction-to-issue-writs-of-quo-warranto-legal-presumption-in-favor-of-natural-born-citizen-clause-and-effect/
… I was in a thread yesterday where someone made cut and pasted a list of all of the records Obama has not released. He included the man’s kindergarten transcript.
I googled to see if anyone is actually talking about Obama’s kindergarten records. They are. They’re claiming he failed and had to take kindergarten twice…
… I want to hear Trump take this one up now.
#8 Eggplant
Just checked it in illustrator. Downloaded it from the official website and opened it in Illustrator. The document is a fraud. I’m shocked right now. This is going to explode.
RWR @ 127: You took Christ’s words about fears of Him — challenging those whose intentions He KNEW due to supernatural omniscience — and equated that to fears about this being a deliberately orchestrated distraction.
That is one Hell of a stretch.
It is sufficient to let your own brashness rebut your judgment.
I used to think that Obama was holding the birth certificate back in order to give the more vehement conservatives the chance to embarrass themselves. But now I am not so sure. I now believe that Obama refused to release the birth certificate until now simply because he considers his personal life (before 2006 anyway) to be totally off-limits to everyone including the media.
It looks like he was blindsided by the sudden appearance of Trump (and all of the Trump communications resources) making a big deal over this. As a nation we are conditioned to listen to “celebrities” (no matter how wacky they are) merely because of their status and nobody is a bigger celebrity than The Donald. Trump gave the “birthers” someone around whom they could coalesce and someone with the money and the motivation to keep making the charge even in the face of MSM opposition.
Trump unexpectedly forced the issue. Now Obama has opened himself up to Trump assaults on other fronts such as his Columbia/Harvard grades and his relations with Chicago radicals. And when eight billion dollars wants something it genreally gets it.
Let’s expose Obama’s affirmative action academic credentials: Trump needs to double down on his demands to see our Chavez wannabe’s grades,and expose the fraud that is his reputation for having an intellect.
I inveigh that I am curious to see if Stalinist info warriors will now look between the toes of little spotted frogs and declare that Dick Cheney was indeed a straw man. What’s next must I surmise that they have found a new rhetorical tool in the offish Non Sequitur?
@128 Joshua Scholar Re: He’s still an Alien. “I don’t understand why Obama is being demonized. I suppose his education was a bit elitist.”
Whassamatta Joshua? Did I touch a nerve? Nice try on changing the subject. You got a thing about education? Makes you so much better than ignorant “birthers” doesn’t it?
Interesting discussion. You should post your viewpoints about this on http://www.whitehousevoice.com!
How did Congress not know of Obama’s ineligibility? They DID know. After the election, Congressmen flooded the Congressional Research Service with questions. A CRS attorney, Jack Maskell, wrote the following memo for Congress to use as CYA. Read the whole thing.
“Many of the inquiries have questioned why then-Senator, and now President, Obama has not had to produce an original, so-called ‘long’ version of a ‘birth certificate’ from the State of Hawaii, how federal candidates are ‘vetted’ for qualifications generally, and have asked for an assessment of the various allegations and claims of non-eligibility status…
“Concerning the production or release of an original birth certificate, it should be noted that there is no federal law, regulation, rule, guideline, or requirement that a candidate for federal office produce his or her original birth certificate, or a certified copy of the record of live birth, to any official of the United States government; nor is there a requirement for federal candidates to publicly release such personal record or documentation. Furthermore, there is no specific federal agency or office that ‘vets’ candidates for federal office as to qualifications or eligibility prior to return.”
http://bobmccarty.com/2010/11/25/understanding-the-jack-maskell-memorandum/
dnarr – Credentialists are a bit fickle. Can’t be ejumacated without acting too white but can’t get a job driving a forklift unless you have the seal of approval from a university that mandates a Marxist indoctrination as part its liberal arts curriculum. No praise for collectivism, no denunciation of old white men, no diploma, no job. But that’s just for you wiggers. They don’t need no stinking documents. Just yoo and the joos. Now genuflect and give a crisp sich hiel! to your new masters.
The whole BC issue is all about trust. It seems apparent that the common folk (i.e. “tea-baggers”, bitter clingers, birthers, etc..) no longer trust the elite media political class. This is the latest manifestation of the “Ruling Class” divide written about by Codevilla.
The Ruling Class repeatedly said that Obama’s a citizen, just trust us. We’ve seen the BC and its legit, just trust us. As indicated in this week’s USA Today poll, only 38% of Americans believed them. So Obama had to show his papers.
The common folk no longer trust the ruling class when it comes to a lot of things – and this is good.
You’re barking up the wrong tree. I don’t have a degree myself, if that’s what you’re assuming.
But now I realize reading more that it’s xenophobia that motivates birthers – at least that’s the reason you’re happy to admit to. I’m not a xenophobe. Interesting trivia, I’ve lived with actual Kenyans – Obama doesn’t strike me as having much in common with them.
People like me who aren’t xenophobes see the birther movement from a distance, see endless hysteria and tend to assume it’s all motivated by racism. Xenophobia doesn’t even occur to us as a motivation.
I think Obama should be judged by his performance as president, not by paranoid stories about his past. The fact is he’s not a clone of Reverend Wright, thank God – that’s obvious in everything he says and does, if you’re not a paranoid.
Irrational fear of Obama won’t make the next Republican candidate more electable any more than irrational fear of Bush made Kerry electable.
I think the Left is far more obsessed about Obama’s BC than the so called right-wing “Birthers” ever were. Witness the new Lefty commentators here who have heretofore remained silent.
BTW, welcome aboard guys. I’m looking forward to reading your opinions on more substantive issues. Also, what’s with the obsession over Sara Palin? Is she that hot to the Leftist libido?
@tadcf. “We don’t think Obama has lost our trust by only recently procuring and releasing his ‘long-form’ birth certificate” You obviously cannot be reasoned with since you are among the multitude who believe what Obama says as fact. But if you get out there and investigate on your owm you may come to different conclusions. for instance Obama didn’t “releas… his ‘long-form’ birth certificate”. What he “released” was an abstract, constructed from the “pertinent” information apparantly from the original, which ONLY Onaka has witnessed. The obfuscation continues because Obama could show the real long-form if he wanted. But he is up to his typical political-legal gabling and counting on his “believers” to go out and ridicule the “enemy”. But I don’t care what names your people call me. If you foment a lie, you’re a liar too.
stoicheion @ 129
I would normally not disagree with you or most who take your position. However, we have both sides of the aisle, as well as both sides of the professional media, standing by the “official line” on Obama’s eligibility.
That means your single “universal field theory” solution will not be recognized by anyone near the center of power.
Meanwhile, while so many are jumping up and down “Look at the obvious fraud,” the entire establishment is moving to establish extra-constitutional Statism.
The original defense of the COLB collapsed when this long form was offered to the skeptical world. Now that same long form, having been put up in layers instead of a much better forgery, smacks more of boastful tyranny than careless stupidity. (Even Occam’s razor couldn’t be that sharp.) It’s like a bully starring America down and declaring “Yes. I lied. What are you gonna do about it, punk?”
Let me Americanize an aphorism that I’m told comes from the Russians.
As the burgeoning State gains more power, expect more of this.
Don’t like the burgeoning of the State? Then recognize that Obama is neither first nor alone in trampling the constitution and its limits on government powers. Join with me in adding to the list of excesses and demand a legitimate response to our grievances.
Oh Zod, shut up. I was here years ago as a democrat who was supporting the Iraq war and then supporting Bush over Kerry.
Coming back I am a bit disappointed to see what Pajamas media he’s joined is. Michelle Malkin, gaawd.
#138. tadcf writes:
And what do the what do the conservative reactionaries want to see now: His college transcript. What next? His drivers’ license? It’s never ending.
Hey dude–where was such whining when it came to Sarah Palin? Her life was (and is) subjected to analysis under an electron microscope. Whats the matter? Are you afraid TEH WON is too sensitive to handle such treatment? Poor abused baby Light Worker. How mean can people be?
And please forgive me if I’ve hurt your little pet double standard’s feelings and have made it cry. You really should have it neutered before it reproduces. We have too many of them around as it is.
Pascal – “while so many are jumping up and down … the entire establishment is moving to establish extra-constitutional Statism.”
The BC is the topic du Jour so to deem it a distraction is a bit obtuse on this day. If the foundation of a lie is built on quick sand it makes the statist edifice that claims moral destiny all the more illegitimate. Please man the front lines while the peasants raise their pitchforks and wave there torches before the gate. There will be plenty of time for that before the regime turns off the internet for the sake of the children.
PF@157: Then recognize that Obama is neither first nor alone in trampling the constitution and its limits on government powers.
To which I would add the de-escalation of gravitas in affairs of State from which trivialization and clownish caricature arise as inevitable second acts leading to an increasingly constrained denouement. Like bad Shakespeare or the surprisingly brutish sensibilities of the well-educated.
I’ve finally figured out this whole birther conspiracy thing. Durn, I can be so slow sometimes.
Its the final bracket playoff game between the Bush blew up the Trades buildings and killed 3,000 people conspiratists VERSUS the Obama is a communist plant born Kenya, unconstitutional predident conspiratists.
Each side has a bench full of contributing experts from many specialty academic disciplines however self professed they may be.
Now this is a playoff game between to teams of bufoons…ooops, I meant mental giants, worth watching and being entertained by.
Popcorn, milk duds and a pepsie…PLEASE!
@Marsh Arab 153. Beautiful sentiment. It is good not to trust the goevernment. The only time the government should be trusted is when the people accept it’s legitimacy. But Obama doesn’t care for such sentimental notions, like his incredulity with the U. S. Constitution. To true socialists, the constitution is a stumbling block to their goals. the other larger proplem is a complacent, apathetic, and cynical populace.
Take care
Per #138 tadcf: ‘He made a decision not to waste his time on this matter, until now’. SERIOUSLY? That’s you response?
Man, I knew more about a semi-girlfriend my sophomore year in college than ‘Mr. Transparency’ has trickled out. And what he has trickled its been speculative.
Honestly.. if you hadn’t voted Democrat (spare me a rebuttal on that.. it’s obvious) each and every time you pull the voting lever, I’d say you have absolutely NO objectivity or common sense skills.
2ndly, this site has plenty of Libertarian/Liberal contributors, bub. Zombie, Navarrette, Moran and MOST of the contributors are former illiberals like yourself. Including said owner of PJM..
Go make your tepid, nonsensical generalizations at the opinion rules all, unpaid-blogger huffpo.
You know what’d be great? If 1 of your former RINO’s had a political discussion with a PJM contributor/former illiberal.
“To true socialists, the constitution is a stumbling block to their goals.”
is open to interpretation…
is a quaint throwback to post revolutionary America…
is an impediment to post modern progressive evolution…
is obsolete…
Funny how right on time the dissenting voices show up on this one topic, no doubt never to be heard from again. I wonder which are paid, and which are just useful idiots?
Joshua Scholar (hah, what an Orwellian name) strives to be the calm voice of reason, yet keeps getting it all wrong. Just one example:
I suppose his education was a bit elitist, on the other hand he’s no where near as elitist as the Bushes. Remember George Senior not knowing what a grocery scanner was?
Isn’t it amazing how Leftist memes (i.e. lies) persist for decades? The grocery scanner story has been debunked countless times. It was a deliberate media lie put out to make Bush look detached, and sure enough it worked and continues to work. Go look it up, Mr. Scholar.
As for elitism, really? We’re supposed to believe that W in any imaginable way was more elitist in his manner and lifestyle than Obama? Good god. When you spew bull, at least strive to make it reasonably plausible, not statements so wrongheaded that they tag you as either a complete dupe or an obvious flim-flam man.
And finally, I suggest you peddle your magic hair growth tonic elsewhere. You are punching WAY over your weight class in this neighborhood (spoken as a lightweight in this room of super heavyweight minds).
It actually looks like Trump is part of the conspiracy.
It looks like this purported to be fraudulent long-form birth certificate puts nothing at rest, but has instilled calls for Impeachment and/or Arrest.
According to:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQ2Gv_q-DJ8
… this long-form birth certificate is a multi-layered graphical assembly, not a scan of a paper birth certificate.
I’ve got the original PDF from the whitehouse.gov, and Adobe Illustrator to install, I’ll have my own look-see.
But the big question: Why release a sloppy, fraudulent birth certificate.
It’s cool, even superman isn’t a US citizen anymore
http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/04/27/superman-renounces-us-citizenship
Talk about good timing.
Take a look at this analysis of the COLB long form document from the WH website, which concludes that it has been electronically manipulated/assembled and is not just a straight copy or scan of an untouched original (see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eOfYwYyS_c&feature=player_embedded#at=20)
jl @ 144: Just checked it in illustrator. Downloaded it from the official website and opened it in Illustrator. The document is a fraud. I’m shocked right now. This is going to explode.
From what I’m reading, it’s a spectacularly blatant and inept fraud.
As opposed to what wretchard assumed, that it would be the best fraud money could buy.
But … really, why not be an inept fraud? That just puts it in the same class as Obamacare, and Obambus his own self.
ps I don’t know much about image doctoring, but the optical character recognition software we have puts the text in 1 layer and the background in 1 layer.
And here we have layers upon layers…
“But the big question: Why release a sloppy, fraudulent birth certificate.”
See Pascal @157; Buraq’s peeing in our collective ears. He is doing it because he can. Great post by Pascal.
On Alvin Onaka; with a hat tip to Bear @133, he may be telling a partial truth. Per Bear’s Clearing the Smoke link there may be on file a COLB produced after 1982 affirming that both of Buraq’s parents were permanent residents of Hawaii at his birth. Onaka ‘s carefully parsed statement does not say he was born in Hawaii, only that there is a COLB on file.
After seeing Denninger’s analysis of the fake and looking all the crap put out by the Hawaian Democratic party, the DNC and other parties on this subject, there is such a long line of obfuscations, sleight of hands and other deceptions that one can only conclude the Buraq is gleefully toying and torturing us with this controversy because he is a very disturbed sociopath.
#167. Patrick Martin
But the big question: Why release a sloppy, fraudulent birth certificate?
I’m not saying it is a fake–at this point I have insufficient information to hazard making such a call. But it would not surprise me that if they were trying to pawn off a forgery that they would screw it up.
What is the Obama administration but a bunch of politically connected idiots with delusions of grandeur and competence. For the most part they are too stupid to realize just how stupid they are. They are so used to being able to say that the sun rises in the West rather than the East and having no one challenge them that they think they can get away with anything. It never even crosses their minds that serious consequences may follow from such behavior at a future time.
That is the truly scary thing about them–they are utterly disconnected from reality. And Hell hath no fury like reality scorned.
I am surprised at the mental gymnastics some are performing with “natural born citizen”, yet they don’t say I am ineligible because I was born by C-Section. In context, “natural born citizen” clearly means someone who was a citizen at birth.
I can think of 3 reasons for the delay in releasing the long form birth certificate:
1. Arrogance.
2. Racism. Racism? He was born as the result of a 24 year old African having sex with a minor (Mom was not yet 18 at the time). They got married 3 months after one episode.
3. He is a father of 2 girls. I can see how he would not want his daughters to know that grandma and grandpa did not wait until marriage to start having sex. However, any who looked up grandma in Wikipedia and used a calculator would be able to figure that out.
Ha ha. I’m punching “Way above my weight”, a mental pygmie among giants am I?
And I’m not in this crowd of hysterical, paranoid nuts who think that Adobe’s Mixed Raster Content compression algorithm is proof of fraud.
Karl Denninger is making a big deal out of the fact that Obama’s birth certificate is a computer artifact. However this might be a non-issue. The Whitehouse version of the birth certificate is depicted on green-and-white safety paper. It is almost certain that the original birth certificate was printed on plain white paper. It’s quite possible that the Hawaiian issuing authority, scanned the original birth certificate and then digitally superimposed that image inside a computer unto green-and-white safety paper to prevent follow-on tampering. The computer modification might have been a normal procedural matter with no sinister intent. I’m inclined to agree with other commentators at Belmont Club that we should shift attention towards Obama’s academic records and invest no more time on his birth certificate. As far as I can tell, Obama was not a spectacular student and yet by magic he was admitted into Columbia University. This was probably another example of affirmative action being applied towards an undeserving student.
Fletcher Christian @ 72 said:
“I can think of some better Tolkein metaphors. Sauron? Easy – the King of Mordor a.k.a Saudi Arabia does nicely there. Morgoth is obvious. But the Voice of Sauron?”
That thought occurred to me as well. The Nazgûl were actually among the more interesting characters that Tolkein invented. They were originally mortal men who were kings. Sauron gave them magic rings that initially gave these kings enormous power. However these rings were like heroin addiction and slowly took over the people who wore them. The kings eventually became disembodied ghosts without free will and totally enslaved to Sauron. Tolkein does not go into detail. The head Nazgûl was definitely a bad guy but the lesser Nazgûl might have started out as good kings who were trapped by Sauron when was the seductive Annatar, “Lord of Gifts”. Supposedly three of the Nazgûl originally came from Númenor before its destruction.
THAT prevented the next 1000 comments.
Jesus, what maroons. See ya in the funny papers!
“After seeing Denninger’s analysis of the fake and looking all the crap put out by the Hawaian Democratic party, the DNC and other parties on this subject, there is such a long line of obfuscations, sleight of hands and other deceptions that one can only conclude the Buraq is gleefully toying and torturing us with this controversy because he is a very disturbed sociopath.”
– Unsk @ 172.
I may post your comment with credit, because it is also a valid surmise. No matter how much Mr. Scholar might wish to deride and dismiss it, simply making it possible to be seen as fraudulent is precisely the kind of psycho ploy the Soviet Union engaged in. “You see the image do you not comrade? Ah — you do know what is good for you.”
Even The Shroud of Turin has been examined by scientists. But that’s not as holy an objet as the Messiah’s BC.
For people that don’t have Illustrator. This is a Screendump from my computer.
http://twitpic.com/4qn8cs/full
@Matt 25 I enjoyed your comments. I am reading d’ Toqueville now and hve become aware of how little I know about governments and democracy. And I consider myself more read than alot of people around me. (In fact most people just get glassy-eyed when I try to have discussions with them -especially my wife). So where does that leave us, as you said “they can’t name the last five presidents”, when the majority are more concerned with getting their “just rewards” or abolishing the electoral college, etc. What’s most frightening is how the masses can be led around by the nose to follow a shiney red wagon down a mineshaft.
take Care
You know what folks, yesterday family memebers bought this issue up and it was the typical you’ll get from a black-liberal (BTW, I happen to be a black male myself who’s very conservative), “The reason why Trump bought this up is because Obama’s black man, blah, blah, blah, blah,”, I had to stop them and tell them to quit playing the race card, it’s embarrassing and pathetic and I’m really sick and tired of the race card being played around. I had to tell them that it was Trump’s PR man who originally told him to bring up BHO’s BC, because Trump’s PR man voted and supported Obama three years ago in the last presidential election. I’m NOT a birther by any chance, did you folks heard the speech that the president gave yesterday, he said the word “certificate”, not “birth certificate”! Think about that.
And yes Obama made a point in his speech, we should stick to the main issues, for instance the economy (in which Obama himself is making our economy more worst and we all know Bush started the meltdown of our economy along with some hedge fund companies), gas prices, the wars in Afghanistan & Lybia, illegal-immigration, the threat of islam to our shores and borders! So far, Obama hasn’t done ANYTHING on those issues that I mentioned and we all know that Obama’s a failure as president, and the GOP are putting up shill-hacks who want to bid for the presidency, if the GOP either runs, Palin, Trump, Gingrich, Pawlenty, Romney, Paul (Ron not Rand), etc. then Obama will more likely win his re-election next fall.
“A nation is defined by it’s borders, language & culture!”
174. Charles Martel
Obama, Sr. could NOT legally marry Stanley: bigamy. His married status would be all over his documents.
So Barry was born outside of wedlock. Period.
That’s going to trigger issues.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/54015762/Barack-Hussein-Obama-Sr-Immigration-File
This file, just posted to the web, shows that Harvard was kicking Obama, Sr. out of the country — without a Harvard PhD BECAUSE he was discovered to be a bigamist.
He’d nailed ‘wives’ in Kenya ( abandoned ) and Honolulu ( abandoned ) and was working on a fresh prospect in New England ( age 27 ) when the girl’s mother made inquiries — and it all blew up.
Harvard cut off his money and worked with the government to get him shipped out.
Obviously, racism was NOT a factor: Harvard had been providing him a free ride!
Bigamy was the issue.
Mr. Charm was obviously nailing these American babes before marriage — since he could never get a marriage license.
I still put my money on Frank Marshall Davis — but either way — Barry is a legal bastard.
It’s NOT the kind of thing that any politician wants to put front and center on their CV.
One of the surprises to me has been the two recent articles on American Thinker written by conservative ladies on Trump and his political battles over the BC.
Both were CRAVING a real man to stand up and fight Obama! They dismissed concerns about his political background and praised his willingness to get in the ring with the President and duke it out. The rest of the Republican field was should be ignored because they were too cautious and too polite.
Reminds me of the legionnaire in “Rome”, the big dumb one, who said that women claimed to deplore violence but watching it “makes them wet as October.” Just about every woman I’ve met recent claims to LOVE watching our local pro ice hockey team.
Krautheimer claims that the key to a GOP victory is just put up any quiet guy and the voters will vote “no” on Obama. I’m not so sure. The female vote is looking for an alpha male to do battle against inflation and the enemies of the country.
Trump is on to something here and it’s not about birth certificates.
For an understanding of the kind of strategy that would welcome a (seemingly tactically flawed) forgery, read this Obama’s Real Strategy by James Capua at American Thinker only today. He wasn’t addressing this BC tactic, but what he reveals does support what a few of us are saying.
Why publish a questionable long form birth certificate aside from simply being “In Your Face Man”? Like I said from the start, to stir the pot and get that red herring swimming faster! Because it so unhinged it causes rational people distress. Their hope is that the bulk of us stay distressed instead of focused. No doubt there are many minions being paid out of the stimulus who have descended on this website. All you useful idiots who are not getting paid may want to reconsider your options while you still have them. Lenin got rid of the useful idiots FIRST.
Go read the rest. I hope it inspires Wretchard to go on to write a typically insightful Wretchardian commentary.
By the way, having trolls at Belmont Club is actually a positive indicator. While George W. Bush was President, Belmont Club was hip deep in trolls and we had to exercise discipline to avoid flame wars. After Obama was elected President, the trolls went away and conversation at Belmont Club became very civil.
Moonbat trolls come here when they feel threatened and stay away when they think they’re fully in control.
I welcome the day when Belmont Club is again hip deep in trolls.
176. Eggplant
When you dive into it…
Your supposition is entirely disproved by the layers in the pdf.
It doesn’t have two layers…
Nor three…
Nor four…
They go on and on and on…
As you walk down through them you witness step-wise digital editing of ALL of the ‘unique’ elements of the BC.
As to the real copy — we’re being teased with: it’s in a super-safe super-secret spot!
Blert @ 187 said:
“When you dive into it… Your supposition is entirely disproved by the layers in the pdf. It doesn’t have two layers… Nor three… Nor four… They go on and on and on…”
Which proves what….? Multiple layers could indicate a badly executed fraud, or some sort of weird Adobe Illustrator programming artifact, or a valid birth certificate that some over zealous idiot beautified with little tweeks to remove smudges and stray effects from the safety paper image. At this point, Obama can say that the long form of his birth certificate has been officially released by the State of Hawaii. This isn’t like the Dan Rather fraud where one can prove the documents were clear fakes. It’s time to move on to a more fruitful line of inquiry, e.g. Obama’s academic records…
Why release a sloppy fraudulent birth certificate?
Because not too many people can be in on it. It’s not like you can go out and hire Dreamworks to create the document. When a President plans to commit fraud, naturally only a few people can know about it. So they asked one person to do it. Someone they trusted. Maybe family or a personal acquaintance. And he screwed up. He should have created a high resolution printout from the document. And scan that document in low resolution into a PDF. But he didn’t. He made the PDF directly from Illustrator. That’s why you can still se the links.
http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/2011/04/27/yes-its-true-the-birth-certificate-is-built-in-layers-and-theres-an-explanation/
I have a question. Does it even matter to you people if layering in obama’s document was done as an automatic part of a scanning and compression process or if it’s really and incompetent fraud?
I mean these days, political fanatics seem happy to live in your own little niche, repeating what you all say with no interest in whether any of it is true or not.
We have a thread above where Obama is probably likened to Sauron by someone who said he doesn’t cotton to elections anyway … I mean if you’re happy smoozing only with the nutcase crowd little matters like what actually happened matter not at all… You can call Obama and the democrats Satan incarnate all day long and get satisfying agreements from your new electronic friends, if that’s your goal.
Sooooo. Where are you all going with all this?
188. Eggplant
http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=185119
Denninger takes the BC apart — rather completely…. It’s a killer presentation.
The tweaks are ALL oriented towards the ‘unique’ features such as the last digit in the birth registration, etc.
JS
The software did NOT break the OCR scan out automatically.
The layers ONLY correspond to critical edits, one by one.
Consider such dreams totally debunked.
189. JL
I’d say you’ve absolutely nailed it.
—–
Lost in the chatter is the reality that his entire prior schtick WRT the BC has been thrown under the bus!
He’s released a document that the Governor of Hawaii swore he couldn’t find!
It’s the very same document that some said was shredded…
That it was lost in digital transition…
That entire line of defense headed straight for the memory vortex.
The only question remaining now is: Who in the media has the guts to take down the president? The consequences are enormous. Nobody wants to end like Dan Rather. And how do you like the sound of this? President Biden!
James Taranto weighs in with Mutually Assured Distraction.
“The only question remaining now is: Who in the
mediaAgency of Lies has the guts to take down the president?” — JL @ 194Forget about that. Almost certainly it must come from somewhat not currently welcome in the halls of power, and probably a total unknown, or it will not come at all.
I don’t like saying that, but I’ve been to close of too near to real power. There’s a stench that adheres to the compromised.
…and why would he spend 2 million bucks and three years trying to hide that thing?
Two words: Diebold Machine
MCR-3 breaks documents into three layers.
Maybe there are edits to put the paper in, maybe it’s broken out by software. Maybe there were edits to take bits of paper out and replace it with safety paper.
The question of whether there’s a real BC at this point rests as it always did, on trusting the officials who say they’ve seen it.
Maybe the paper was editted in in the hopes of provoking a reaction.
Since I never cared, I’m not going to start to care.
Things which are incontrovertable:
1) Obama is not the scary alien who hates America that they hysterics paint him as
He’s not the idiot the racists paint him as – no doubt he’s a lot smarter than the average racist
He’s as good a president as one could expect the Democrats to run, and better than any of his Republican challengers
In other words he’s perfectly normal and the extreme hysteria is a sign of some sort of mental problem on the part of his opponents. One that I find every bit as insane and harder to understand than the similar hatred Bush evoked.
2) Obama was actually elected. So the birther trend is an attempt usurp the voice of the American electorate. It is inherently elitist.
3)The birther movement looks like deep weakness. Trying to convince people not to vote for him is legitimate, trying to undermine him bypassing the electorate looks desperate and the hysteria is impossible to miss.
…and why would he spend 2 million bucks and three years trying to keep people from seeing that thing?
Obama didn’t. He spent money on legal fees like every other politician because he runs a campaign and raises money.
The money issue is more totally dishonest propaganda.
You should learn that the current set of political manipulators from Fox to the right wing scare mongers are totally dishonest.
Honesty went out of style a generation ago.
Chiyome Fukino, Health Director under (Republican) Gov Linda Lingle:
Fukino, who left office in December, said that during her term as health director, Obama’s birth certificate was moved from a file vault, where bound books containing vital records line the shelves in handwritten, leather-bound ledgers, in colors chosen over the course of decades — and placed inside the vault’s five-foot-tall, grey, metal combination and key lock safe that holds money and other valuables.
“After the 2008 elections, the Department of Health received a significant number of requests for a copy of President Obama’s original birth registration by individuals who believe that the president is not a U.S. citizen,” Fukino explained. “To assure the safety of the record, the bound volume was removed from the file vault and placed into a fireproof safe with limited access.”
Fukino was ordered by then-governor Linda Lingle to view the document in 2008, and said she remains among the very few to have seen it prior to Monday, when Obama released a copy of his records to the public.
Obama’s original certificate of live birth is bound with one ledger containing 499 other certificates of people born in Hawaii in 1961, according to Fukino.
There are 500 sheets per book, and 35 volumes of 1961 birth records. The last series of digits in the registration number found on Hawaiian long form and current computerized-format birth certificates indicate which number volume the original document can be found inside the health department first-floor vault.
According to Fukino, all books bound in the 1960s, including the one containing Obama’s birth certificate, have a bright orange elasticized canvas cover and the year of the birth designated on its spine.
Current Democrat Health Director Fuddy:
“As director of health for the state of Hawaii, I have the legal authority to approve the process by which copies of such records are made. Through that authority, in recognition of your status as president of the United States, I am making an exception to the current departmental policy which is to issue a computer-generated certified copy,” she wrote.
The copy was released to the White House press on Wednesday.
Obama Birth Certificate Moved to More Secure Location Months Ago
“No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty-five years, and been fourteen years a resident within the United States.”
Obama never was President because he never was a citizen. He was never naturalized.
Joe Biden is President.
None of the laws Obama signed are laws because the President never signed them. They were all vetoed via the pocket veto. Joe Biden never signed them.
Some one should swear Biden in. Quick.
“As director of health for the state of Hawaii, I have the legal authority to approve the process by which copies of such records are made. Through that authority, in recognition of your status as president of the United States, I am making an exception to the current departmental policy which is to issue a computer-generated certified copy,” she wrote.
No surprise.
I don’t know what the anti-Obama hysterics actually want anyway. From this thread I think they just want Gollum to fall into The Cracks of Doom and Sauron, I mean Obama to lose his magical powers.
Birth Certificate: Where Are the Indignant Questions to Obama?
Andrew C. McCarthy
If George W. Bush, Sarah Palin, or even a Republican the media likes (say, John McCain) had taken purposeful steps to block examination of so basic a document, the media would surely have turned such obstinacy into a scandal. The public might not have leapt to extravagant conclusions about whether they’d really been born in Kenya, or on Mars, or wherever.
But they’d have thought it was intolerably strange that campaigns were retaining lawyers and amassing affidavits rather than just producing a seemingly innocuous, readily producible document. The story would never have been about the people asking for the birth certificate; it would have been about the candidate who was moving heaven and earth to prevent people from seeing it.
And let’s not ignore that Obama did move heaven and earth. This is not just a matter of him thumbing his nose at a fringe collection of nutty “birthers.” There have been several court cases.
It is flat out bizarre that one should have to be sued to compel conformance with a routine that millions of Americans comply with every day. Many of these court cases, if not all, could have been short-circuited (indeed, many of the later ones would not have been filed at all) if Obama had just produced the birth certificate.
Instead, he not only refused to produce it; he and his campaign paid thousands of dollars in legal fees (in some places it is reported to be well over a million dollars) to fight the lawsuits — and Obama’s lawyers even threatened to seek disciplinary sanctions against lawyers for daring to file the lawsuits. Since Obama has been president, moreover, not just the time of courts and private lawyers has been tied up; government lawyers have had to spend their time — on the public’s dime — on this nonsense.
So, assuming as we should the legitimacy of the long-form birth certificate produced yesterday,
the only thing that makes sense is that Obama knows the mainstream media is in his hip pocket.
That is, he knew that he would not be held to the same standard as other politicians, and that if he acted in an unreasonable manner by withholding basic, easily available information that any other person seeking the presidency would be expected — be compelled — to produce, the media would portray as weirdos those demanding the information, not Obama and his stonewalling accomplices.
And he also knows that, having now finally produced the document only because the game was starting to hurt him politically, the media will not focus on how easy it would have been to produce the birth certificate three years ago, or on how much time and money has been wasted by his gamesmanship; they’ll instead portray him as beleaguered and the people who have been seeking the basic information (i.e., doing the media’s job) as discredited whackos.
It’s hard to say what’s more depressing, Obama’s cynicism or the zeal with which the media does his bidding.
Complete Article
…
Obama spent a comparable amount on his lawyers as John McCain did.
He did NOT spend that money defending from birther claims…
But among you, no lie is ever rejected if it’s in your favor.
The death of humility is how democracy dies.
In the small incestuous world category, Richard Mellon Scaife met with Donald Trump’s candidate, Hillary Clinton, during her 2008 campaign in what must have been an awkward ‘together again’ moment.
“The reason for the “natural born citizen” requirement that was written into the Constitution was to filter out candidates for President who might have dual or weak loyalties to the United States, to the Constitution, and to our form of government. To filter out anyone who was not thoroughly American in upbringing, character, and outlook. To assure that whoever became President had a deep knowledge and understanding of, appreciation for, and love of the United States, her people, and her customs.”
Pure BS,
The requirement for being born in the USA or it’s Territorial limits is to prevent some wealthy German Prince from Buying the Presidency. Read the Jefferson papers. The reason for the age requirement was to prevent a President from ‘handing’ the Presidency down to his son. Both were designed to prevent America from turning into a monarchy.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2470873/posts
pinched;
The citizens are the members of the civil society: bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. As the society cannot exist and perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights. . . .
From 1797, so it was the accepted definition of the late 18th century.
I’m not sure that the requirement is needed today. Buying the Oval office is not done directly as it was in the 18th century. Remember vote buying was Not illegal until the middle of the 19th century. The founders figured it was your vote, if you wanted to sell it to the highest bidder, it was your vote.
My first representative was elected by giving shots of whiskey to everybody that voted for him. My current Representative gives tax dollars to rich people in exchange for “campaign contributions” which she then uses to buy ad time to get votes. Not so different from the shot of whiskey technique, just more costly. I think that is because there are more middlemen. Or middlewomen.
The age requirement made sense in an era when 40 was old age.
Not sure either requirement is needed today and would support an amendment changing them.
I would vote for Putin in a heartbeat.
The above URL gives the USSC ruling on what “Natural born” citizen means.
170. Josh
come on ..best money can buy?
this is the meme generation. he picked a “trusted” minion. It is something you don’t shop around.
but like so many the new generation is not as good as it thinks.
Some one posted this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eOfYwYyS_c
so I went and looked at it myself …the guy is correct there are problems. I wonder what happens next.
josh,
“But among you, no lie is ever rejected if it’s in your favor.
The death of humility is how democracy dies.”
I’m guessing you don’t see the irony in those lines.
#107 Albert (Einstein no doubt) said that the average normal person (translation-Albert’s two or three friends in his circle jerk) would be horrified to be associated with the crazies here on Belmont questioning the Boy King’s birth certificate.
I hate to pee in your Cheerios there Libtard, but the normal people I rub shoulders with would be horrified to be associated with the real crazies in DC who are spending us into oblivion, humiliating us on the international stage and generally governing with the subtlety, vision and courage of a middle school student body candidate. “If I’m elected everybody gets an extra ice cream sandwich in the cafeteria ” is stupid when we’re facing a category 5 tornado in the near future. So go back to your internet porn and twinkies there Albie and leave the thoughtful debate to others.
209. exhelodrvr
Funny how you forgot any response on the lie I mentioned. Obama did spend 2 mil on legal fees, none or almost none on birther claims, that report was just result of some completely incompetent pundit assuming that all of the money to his laywers went to something that was actually not a significant part of their work.
I believe the McCain campaign spend 1.4 mil on the same – was that because of birther challenges to him? Uhm no.
So do you see the irony of the fact that you conveniently forgot to address the actual issue, no doubt so you could pretend it was true another day?
I am not a forensics expert, but I do use software like Illustrator and Photoshop. Following the demonstrations in these two videos, I was able to see the same signs that the latest birth certificate is a graphically created image, not just a simple scan of a paper document. However, I hope Trump, or hope against hope, the media, will hire a bonafide forensic expert to examine the original.
http://youtu.be/3g30VCl_cgk
http://youtu.be/2eOfYwYyS_c
I had forgotten about this.
At one point in 2009 the Hawaii Department of Health released a statement saying that all of their birth records, from 1908 forward, had been “digitized” in 2001, and that the paper records had been discarded (see http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2011/04/2009_report_hawaii_health_depa.html) So just exactly WTF is the document that the WH just released? A document that was described in the last few days by Hawaiian officials as the copy of a paper record, bound with 499 other such records in a heavy volume, that was pulled from the shelves of a a storage room with rows and rows of other such bound paper records, and locked up for safekeeping a couple of years ago.
212. Erica read 201. Doug again.
The definition of “document” has changed. This is an official computerized document. That isn’t the same thing as a scan or a photocopy.
I would bet what it means is that a scan and cleanup and superimposition onto a safety paper image was officially sanctioned by the State of Hawaii and the result cryptographically signed so that the result can’t be altered. Welcome to the the 21st century.
While it’s true that automatic segmentation into text, picture and background is normal for an MRC-3 compressed document, this is probably different sort of layered document.
Why? Probably because this is the way the state of Hawaii has been releasing documents, that’s why.
An official electronic document is NOT the same thing as an unchanged image of a paper document. It’s an official, signed electronic document.
God.
As I said, welcome to the 21st century.
I predict that the next thing that will come to light will be the long-lost Harvard Law Review articles Obama wrote.
What if the long form is a legitimate fraud? As a document it is official and reflects what was represented as true upon his birth. What if what was represented was known not to be true by those who completed it?
As I recall is the difference between a long form and short form birth certificate is the long form provides more detail including parentage. The detail that is fraudulent is Obama’s paternity. It says “Barack Obama, Sr.” but what if his father is, as some contend “Frank Marshall Davis.” Mr. Davis was much of what Barack Obama denies he is. Obama admits Davis was his mentor, perhaps he was far more than that.
No big deal?
Well, it makes you wonder if he hasn’t been simply a packaged product all along.
Trump’s second demand was for documentation supporting the package educational resume that proves he’s smart.
Trump’s second demand should have been, “Is all that was on this birth certificate true when it was issued?”
“Is all that was on this birth certificate true when it was issued?”
How would that reflect on the President? In what way he responsible for things that happened before (and during) his birth?
“Well, it makes you wonder if he hasn’t been simply a packaged product all along. ”
Yes of course he was “packaged” to be president back in the 60s.. By who again? Was it Satan? Could you possibly be more insulting to the president and his family?
Joshua Scholar(pbuh)- “hysterics”?
That’s a sexist term. Are you talking out of a vagina or your a-hole? Oh, and speaking of a legacy of lies, what was your nom de plum once upon a time at the Belmont Club, I don’t seem to recall your name in the last several years, a$$eyes.
Hysteria means an excess of emotion doesn’t it?
Really this is like reading KOS back when Bush was president. I remember chimpy the hitler bush.. that was hysteria too, and you’ll note that it didn’t get Kerry elected.
My “handle” has always been my name. This was before the blog was on Pajamas Media, before there WAS a Pajamas Media. Back then I think most people used real names.
And I didn’t find a need to talk too often. It was a busy comment section. Actually it might have been faster then.
Josh old bean. At 177 you wrote
Jesus, what maroons. See ya in the funny papers!
This suggested you were leaving the rest of us morons alone to stew in our racist conspiracy theories. Yet you’ve posted again at 190, 199 (a particularly tendentious and weak one, BTW), 200, 203, 205, 211, 214, 217, 218 and 220. Lord, the pace is increasing.
If you self-righteously announce your departure, you ought to stay departed.
Well that’s just great. This topic hasn’t received much air play at all here until it made world news and in comes some a$$hat to p!ss on everyone’s head while feigning moral injury. Go play in traffic and hope to win a lawsuit. I wonder how much George Soros pays tools like you any way.
Used your real name back then? Maybe doug and Buddy Larsen did but most of us used nom de plums and guess what, all of the old material is still there just like Obama’s birth certificate. Love to see a site.
Etymology of the Word Hysteria
ύστέραι (husterai)
An Ionian word mostly used in the plural as shown above, so that even in ancient Greek husterai was a euphemism whose literal meaning is “the inferior parts” or “the lower parts” ― very much like the modern evasion used by western parents to describe young girls’ genitalia “down there” or other sexist evasions to name a woman’s “privy parts” like the Latin pudendum or pudenda, in form a gerundive of obligation meaning literally ‘that of which one ought to be ashamed.’ Compare one of several creepy periphrases in German, die Weiche ‘the soft parts.’ Creepy but slightly more accurate than some other languages’ circumlocutionary bibble-babble.
Give yourself a hysterectomy with a rusty butter knife.
peterike I notice that you don’t actually have a single rebuttal to a single argument.
Not a respectable showing, “old bean”.
Annoy Mouse, you chose to quote the etymology rather than the actual meaning of the word, which is just what I said it was.
“Give yourself a hysterectomy with a rusty butter knife”
ha! no excess of emotion there.
Stop This. Now.
This troll feeder is putting the lid back on the kibble. My bad. Apologies to all.
Only two of my comments appear to be still on the fallback site, and I remember a couple conversations with wretchard that aren’t there.
And I did post under other handles I had a blog that I see a link to in one of my comments. It was nightstudies.net and my handle there was Cafe Alpha.
two things:
What if they forged the document but, the information was factual?
What if trump is in cahoots with boobama to keep the birther issues alive? or to give the appearance that he caved and presented the document under pressure? What if it is a forgery but he couldn’t just cough it up out of the blue?
There weren’t as many people wanting to see the document now as there was in 2008. The birther issue was fading away.
I don’t trust him or trump and I think we are getting played in some way shape or form.
No, no excess of smugness on your part either. You are self-satisfied with your world view that evinces ‘question authority’ then decries any inquiry thereof when the ‘facts’ have met your own fawning criteria. One must use the dialectic to arrive at a truth and let it go no further when it has arrived at a profitable end state. It shows an outcome bias on your part.
If you liked the etymology of hysteria, maybe you’ll like this:
Etymology
From the slang expression having one’s head up one’s @ss, thus, wearing the @ss as a hat. The term is extended to people who are clueless or bumbling, who don’t understand what is going on.
Noun
@sshat (plural @sshats)
1. (Internet slang) idiot [quotations ▼]
Piece out.
Tried to scan above to see if this has been mentioned.
Last line on the “official BC” image released:
Line 23. Evidence for Delayed Filing or Alteration
The area where a response might appear is cropped from the image.
Doug @ 204 quoted:
“It’s hard to say what’s more depressing, Obama’s cynicism or the zeal with which the media does his bidding.”
That quote formed a nice little dark cloud over my head.
Concerning Obama, the MSM totally failed as an unbiased referee. Our whole democracy is predicated on the notion of a free and inquiring press that will examine political candidates and expose obvious incompetence and fraud. From day one, the MSM never exercised due diligence in determining whether or not Obama was fit to be President. This represents systematic failure. Even if our democracy survives Obama, there really is nothing preventing someone worse from becoming our next President. All the would be tyrant needs to do is buy off a few key people within the MSM and he’s in.
#205. Joshua Scholar
The death of humility is how democracy dies.
How true that is. The “Progressives” certainly have no sense of it at all. Humility that is. None whatsoever. They tend to have an invincible shield that protects them from any notion or fact that tends to indicate they are not the Chosen Ones who have all the answers.
Sorry–I don’t buy it. I have often thought that the primary component of wisdom was being keenly aware of one’s own limitations. When it comes to Progressives it seems that they are, for the most part, incapable of understanding that they have any limitations at all. After all, a graduate of an Ivy League school who majored in Transgenderal Studies must by definition be so intelligent that shifting to doing open heart surgery is a trivial task.
So be it. Let him do heart surgery on you if you need it. Let that pompous moron refrain from doing surgery on my nation’s economy.
macko
That Trump has been a life-long Democrat contributor and knee deep in crony capitalism of a New York kind; you are right to question this stalking horse.
I see that here and there some candidates are withdrawing from the field.
We something like that with Fred Thompson — who was NEVER a serious candidate. His sole interest was to advance McCain and quash Romney. ( Thompson was McCain’s campaign advisor in 2000 — losing out to Bush. )
Now days Thompson is pushing the latest con: reverse mortgages for seniors not yet fully victimized.
Considering the massive ad blitz — all paid for by self-victimizing seniors — the internal rate of return ( risk adjusted ) has to be horrible.
I’m not saying anyone was packaging him from birth.
All I am saying is that the birth certificate is a potential embarrassment to one who must today be perfect in every way. It is a precursor, a foreshadowing.
A flaw will at last force serious journalists to vet the man, the President, who was never vetted. The MSM helped put him where he is without the most cursory of examinations. I’ll bet that the day he begins to unravel, they’ll turn on him with a vengence.
Tcobb you’re missing that I’m not sniping from the left, I’m sniping from the center.
The last candidate I voted for was GW Bush.
What is it with all the writers on this site? They seem to think their readers are a bunch of idiots. Most of us are not distracted by this issue, but are still very much concerned about the economy, obamacare, etc. We are all well aware of how serious the problems we face are.
We know that it will make not difference where he was born, or anything else that’s uncovered, but we are naturally curious. That’s the problem with conservatives, they are too independent, have minds of their own, think for themselves, and want to know the truth. If that’s too troubling for these writers, they should become liberals and get a dumber readership.
We all know that the truth won’t matter, whatever it is. If it was found that Obama was born on Pluto, no one would do anything about it. He’s a Democrat after all.
This birth certificate episode has been the first entertaining thing that’s come out of this administration, and after two long nightmarish years, we need a laugh.
235. Joshua Scholar
Tcobb you’re missing that I’m not sniping from the left, I’m sniping from the center.
Yeah–Right–Uh-Huh– and I have these great deals I can give you on ocean-front property in Utah. Drop me a line with your credit card number. If you don’t want to do that I can hook you up with some Nigerians who can make you rich overnight.
Off topic:
Don’t get me wrong, I think Petraeus is a good guy. However if asked who in America most reminds me of Lucius Cornelius Sulla, I would have to answer that it’s General Petraeus. Refer to the following:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/petraeus-would-helm-an-increasingly-militarized-cia/2011/04/27/AFwoDM1E_story.html
In summary: Petraeus has sufficient competence and Obama just handed Petraeus the necessary tools.
Many historians believe Rome achieved its zenith under the Emperor Hadrian. Maybe we’ll reach our zenith under an American emperor?
#238. Eggplant
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but in this case I think the more cynical case applies. Putting Petraeus in charge of the CIA effectively shuts him up. He can’t say a word about the ineptness of the present administration while he holds such a position, and he can’t publicly complain when they ignore his advice, or even point out that they have ignored his advice.
But when things get ugly, as they seem fated to be headed, he will make a convenient scapegoat.
Its an interesting dimension of action for those who play by the Chicago Way. May they all ultimately rot in Hell.
Mr.Fernandez might want to consider a more straightforward explanation of the birther phenomenon: much of the American Right has descended into delusion and silliness.
Any time I see the word “Sulla” I think of Laurence Olivier as Crassus in Spartacus and his great delivery of this scene.
Crassus: Are you not aware of Rome’s most ancient law…that no general may enter the city at the head of his armed legions?
Glabrus: Sulla did.
Crassus: Sulla? To the infamy of his name! To the utter damnation of his line! No, my young friend. One day I shall cleanse this Rome which my fathers bequeathed me. I shall restore all the traditions that made her great. It follows, then, that I cannot come to power or even defend myself…by an act which betrays the most sacred tradition of them all. I shall not bring my legions within these walls. I shall not violate Rome… at the moment of possessing her.
The way Olivier explodes when he says “Sulla?” is a grand moment of cinema.
And naturally the guy that wants to restore Roman greatness and Roman traditions is the bad guy in the movie. Eh, it’s a great film anyway.
Putting Petraeus in charge of the CIA effectively shuts him up.
Keep your friends close. Keep your enemies closer.
240. JohninOregon
Mr.Fernandez might want to consider a more straightforward explanation of the birther phenomenon: much of the American Right has descended into delusion and silliness.
That is indeed a frightening concept–the idea that the Right is dropping down to the functional mental level of the Left.
Yeah–Right–Uh-Huh– and I have these great deals I can give you on ocean-front property in Utah. Drop me a line with your credit card number. If you don’t want to do that I can hook you up with some Nigerians who can make you rich overnight.
Well your definition of left and right might be different than mine. However I wouldn’t call myself “progressive” and I don’t have any use for gender studies or any other of a number of silly studies that seem to confuse the tail end of spent grievance with knowledge. You could add “peace studies” to your list of rants about fraudulent, wishful thinking cults confused with knowledge and would agree with you.
But as I said I am a Democrat who was willing to swing over and argue for the Iraq war and argue against Kerry and vote for Bush. I think I’m a lot closer to the center than tea party/birther crowd.
Be careful about squishing all the swing voters into your definition of socialist… you will never win a damn thing without the center.
Of course maybe that’s what all this hysteria IS about, maybe your fear isn’t the left your fear is the center.
That is indeed a frightening concept–the idea that the Right is dropping down to the functional mental level of the Left.
Ha! Sadly the base of both parties is made of deaf paranoids.
But in my opinion what’s good for Fox’s ratings is not good for the Republican party. You are being led down the path.
Eggplant, Peterike, Tcobb. I have written about Sulla several times.
He was the general who put down the proto-Marxist Marius, who as 7year Consul was seen as polluting Rome by granting his Latin allies citizenship in Rome.
Sulla became the first Roman Dictator — actually a position allowed in their republic — since Cincinnatus 400 years earlier. He wiped out the Marians in a civil war, and outlawed (forced into exile) all of Marius’ acolytes. Julius Caesar was one of those exiles — and by poor luck, winding up the prisoner of Silesian pirates (the subject of one of his books).
Crassus being played by Olivier was speaking the words of Hollywood. But there’s more to the irony. The script had him being prideful in the extreme in case you didn’t notice. Why would Crassus want to have troops in Rome at the very moment he had her in his grasp, don’t you see? It would have been crass — no pun intended — for him to use force when his politics had given him the power over the grateful Rome in a manner that surpassed both Sulla and Marius.
But he did not succeed in doing that, as suggested by the movie (Spartacus). He wound up plotting with Pompey and Caesar as the money man in the First Triumvirate, the famous conspiracy wherein they acted in public like adversaries, but it was kept a close secret between the three. It wasn’t until they appeared on the same stage simultaneously, backing the popular Caesar, that they revealed their pact. Too late for the republic it turned out, but not too late for republican forces to try and build an opposition. Meanwhile Crassus was killed in the far East fighting the Parthians. And Caesar defeated Pompey (who Ptolemy foolishly had murdered thinking to please Caesar). It took another 10 years or so for Caesar to discover the ides of March.
The point I wish to point out given the thoughts you’ve tossed about, was that it was the sort of thing — designing to prevent a General Marius or Sulla or Crassus or Caesar from coming to power at the head of an army — was one of the separations of power that the American founders foresaw in providing that the CIC must be a civilian while in office.
In my humble opinion, Petraeus would never be a Sulla. As revealed by his more recent activities, he’s much too much a Marius (a bureaucratic man) than an Sulla (a man of the old guard who wanted to restore the old Roman mores).
Of course maybe that’s what all this hysteria IS about, maybe your fear isn’t the left your fear is the center.
I don’t fear the center. I fear the left who claim to be the center. The history of the Left and the so-called Progressives has been to hijack and take over movements that were often essentially non-ideological and then bend them to purposes that had nothing to do with the original intentions of the movement. The example of Greenpeace comes to mind.
I don’t fear the honest sheep. I fear the thing with fangs dressed up in the skin of a dead sheep that tries to get me to believe its a sheep. Why is it, if its motives are pure, that it needs to deceive?
Look at the mother’s signature.stanley ann dunham obama.I cannot believe that was written by an eighteen year old girl.That is the handwriting of a mature individual, someone considerably older.
Correction — the three broke their secret pact when they backed a demagogic Tribune (the common man, plebian representative who could veto all Senatorial acts) in whom they could rely to steer the mob to favor their policies.
It wasn’t until Caesar crossed the Rubicon (the equivalent of what Olivier was horrified over in the movie) that Caesar began his moves that led to him effectively becoming Consul for life (almost dictator).
—-
Who was it who said that the Left must be desperate because they suddenly showed up on this thread? Boy, I cannot believe how utterly stupid they are. Lenin destroyed his useful idiots because he knew they were either too stupid or knew them to be too untrustworthy. They were proved to him to be untrustworthy because they were willing to sacrifice their fellow citizens simply to please him, so he feared them more than his open adversaries who at least were open in their opposition and thus could be dealt with one at a time.
Useless idiot scholar — Leftist regimes murdered over 100 million of their own subjects in the last century, and you come here to mock conservatives. I honestly feel sorry for you. When you find yourself in Hell, know now that it will be of your own making.
#248. julie
Look at the mother’s signature.stanley ann dunham obama.I cannot believe that was written by an eighteen year old girl.That is the handwriting of a mature individual, someone considerably older.
An interesting point. One wonders if there are any records of his mother’s signature (or of any of the other people whose sig’s appear on the document) that can be used for handwriting comparisons?
Really, I think not showing the birth certificate was a calculated way to divide the country further. If it had been shown right away, the issue would have gone away a long time ago.
Now, though, there is so much vested that it will keep the camps split. And that will play well into the narrative of “see, I’m black, they were out to get me.” Few will consider the timing.
I for one don’t care if Obama was born in the US or not. While I like to be a constitutional constructionist in most things, this particular part seems to have outlived its original purpose. While it could cause damage to Barrack, I was all for it (after what the left did to Jeri Ryan and her son, and after what Obama has done to his competitors, and after Obama got such a free ride in the press, anything that works is good enough for me).
So let’s hope Birthers put it aside, say “Yeah, thanks for producing this Obama, we are glad you are an American citizen. Now, about all these damaging policies you have . . .” Unfortunately, that’s simply not likely to happen.
You can only mislead people so long and then the people do not trust you any more. That trust is hard to get back once it is gone. Obama brought this mess on his self by playing games with peoples lives, so now obama lose`s no matter which way he goes
239/Tcobb & 238/Eggplant
I must concur with Tcobb regarding Petraeus; whatever political aspirations he might have, he has been out-maneuvered by the Obama administration with which he has cast his lot.
He is obviously an intelligent man, erudite and lettered, even somewhat wonkish, and he had the good fortune to have developed an outstanding concept and strategy for counterinsurgency which met the perfect textbook case and opportunity in Anbar. The successful application of his strategy in “the Surge” established his reputation as a winner, but unfortunately he seems to have succumbed, as have so many brilliant people, to the tendency to believe that their “big idea” is the solution to all problems. As the adage goes, to the man who sells hammers, every problem is a nail.
In AfPak, Petraeus’ “grand idée” appears to have become an “idée fixe” which he is determined to apply despite the fact that the circumstances are very different and don’t warrant it. Notwithstanding the appearances of certain temporary success, e.g. the impressive Taliban kill rates of the US Marines which have been recently mentioned here (reminiscent of Gen. Westmoreland’s “body count” success metric in Vietnam), the end result will be a humiliating debacle for which he will be scapegoated.
Moreover, his attempt to hand off that scenario to a successor, if reports of his moving to CIA are correct, won’t save him. It merely further demonstrates the narrow, tunnel-like aspect of his vision and ability to correctly perceive the overall strategic picture. Tcobb is correct; if Petraeus allows Obama to bury him in the CIA he can kiss any political aspirations good-bye.
As it relates to the current topic of Obama’s BC, which is itself merely a surrogate talking point and coal mine canary indicator for the larger problem of reining in the rogue agency of our self-anointed oligarchs who seem determined to dismantle the Constitutional rule of law and subdue us, Petraeus will never be a Sulla, and certainly not a Cincinnatus. He doesn’t have the chops, neither political, ideological or moral.
He “coulda been a contenda”, however, had he correctly perceived the geo-political strategic situation and done the principled thing at the beginning, resigned his commission, publicly denounced Obama’s AfPak strategy, and explained to the American people why he was refusing to lead troops into a cynical, pre-meditated sell-out of our military. The fact that he failed to do this demonstrates the flaws in both his overall military acumen and his character. The fact that he is not alone in this reluctance to stand for principle is small comfort. We no longer have military leadership at the highest levels willing to sacrifice a mere career for their country, much less their lives and their sacred honor…
To Joshua Scholar @ 199
“2) Obama was actually elected. So the birther trend is an attempt usurp the voice of the American electorate. It is inherently elitist.”
Slavery was also a “voice of the American Electorate”. Lincoln only drew 39.8% of the vote in 1860, more of the electorate voted against Lincoln. Was it elitist of Lincoln to ban it?
To be sure the demand for Obama’s history, for proof of his eligibility under the Constitution arose only out the unique history he has. That known history does draw his eligibility into question, certainly an honest appreciation for the meaning of Natural Born Citizen would allow that Obama may indeed not meet that requirement. Demanding one’s place in the law is not the cry of the elitist. Demanding a SPECIAL PLACE in the law, IS THE MARK OF THE ELITIST.
And that special place in law is being granted Obama. He is being handled as a elite by the elite. The very words of the Hawaiian officials explaining this release say that.
Dear Joshua Scholar, if you are so anxious to use the word “elitist” as some mocking term, then apply it where it is deserved, not where it is not. We birthers has been treated worse than Dred Scott was in terms of not being allowed a full hearing in court for our complaints. We are made the lowest, the most debased and refused, under the actual process of law in this matter. The opposite of elite.
Elitism? Look to Obama and those who ever excuse and defend him.
Breaker, Breaker!
The following is an excerpt from this.
Yep, they are identical. The original “fraudulent” Kenyan birth certificate somehow has the same time of birth, 7:24 PM, as Bummer’s reluctantly released long form.
If the Kenyan BC was a fraud, and the Hawaiian has supposedly been under lock and key until early this week, how did the alleged Kenyan forger know that last year?
I am embarrassed for all of us for not noticing that amazing coincidence. There are 1440 minutes in every day. Somehow the Kenyan “forger” chose the correct time of day? The probability is 1/1440. Not impossible, but so unlikely without prior knowledge, that it is more likely the alleged forger of the recently released long form is so lacking in creativity, he wound up plagiarizing the earlier forger’s material.
Quick — do you remember anyone in Bummer’s WH who has a history of plagiarism?
[fill-in the blank]
Obama: “Hey Joe. I give you a simple little job to do, plenty of money, and this is the best you could come up with?”
…and what about the gay bath houses?
What gets lost in all of this…but was alluded to in the article…is the patently Un-American decision-making of this President. Take your pick: Cash-for-Clunkers, moratorium on drilling, selective enforcement at DOJ, Obamacare, Czars, EPA co-option on congressional authority, lawsuits against states like Arizona, subverting state sovereignty like Wisconsin….etc, etc..as the list goes on and on. It is Obama’s decision-making and actions which makes people question whether (a) is he purposely trying to harm the country or (b)is he so “foreign” to American values that he simply cannot represent all Americans fairly and equally? It is Obama’s actions which created doubt and suspicion about him….and he is doing nothing to dispel those doubts.
AM@229: Piece out.
I see a gauntlet was thrown.
The rhetoric was becoming tedious and tendentious. The many benefits to be derived from the appearance of strength, whether the combat is rhetorical or ‘kinetic’, aren’t worth a steaming pile unless they’re backed up with something beyond redundant content thinly disguised in bad form.
The salient points had all been presented (I see some new information is coming out) with no easy answers to the why of it all, aside from the Manchurian Candidate – and if that’s where one chooses to go, more evidence will be required and I doubt very much that it will be forthcoming.
As others have noted, Washington has decided this issue: no constitutional crisis at this time. I can’t say I completely disagree. This country survived eight years of Clinton and his divided loyalties with the Chinese and the Sauds, and two years of an inexperienced JFK who took more than a couple of b^tch slaps from Khrushchev.
The only question in my mind is whether the Republican Party will move into aggressive campaign mode in 2012. (If Mike Huckabee gets the nod, I will vote for Obama, regardless if he turns out to be the love child of Elvis and Marilyn.)
(As a final observation, my ideological profile differs from the mainstream on this board in several important areas including fiscal policy, reproductive rights and a healthy loathing of organized religion. To paste a ‘Question Authority’ bumper sticker on my forehead seems a bit of a non sequitur. And I honestly have no idea what “Piece Out” means but under the circumstances, I think I’ll let that one go.)
As to Petraeus going to the CIA.
Didn’t G. H. W. Bush rotate through that office before going on to VP and then president?
Yes, Obama is keeping Petraeus out of the political circuit (as I’ve long argued) for now but he’s really just kicking the can down the road.
As to Tharkin’s criticisms of Petraeus @253, I’m reminded of Col. Allen West’s remarks about walking through Hell with a gasoline can for his men. Our general may well of thought that his responsibility was to remain in the loop in Afghanstan to limit the damage done to our forces by Obama’s policy there.
The game is by no means over. The fame of power is NEVER over.
It’s more important to show the serial liar that he is than determining where he was born. The entire myth he has created about himself needs to be exposed.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/04/the_obama_lie_that_drove_the_b.html
t@253: It merely further demonstrates the narrow, tunnel-like aspect of his vision and ability to correctly perceive the overall strategic picture.
I’m not sure I understand the nature of the hostility to Petraeus. I’m not sure if the skepticism is anti-Petraeus or anti-COIN.
The so-called ‘surge’ strategy is part of the larger COIN approach being implemented in ME as arguably the best and maybe the only way to put closure on a war without adequate ‘boots’, as per the ‘war on the cheap’ critique leveled against Bush and Rumsfeld. Too few soldiers to conduct and win a conventional war, hence the use of COIN.
COIN seems destined to remain a very unpopular concept: it’s unconventional; it’s time-consuming (long-term) which requires a marketing effort to engage the American people, an effort which has not been completely developed let alone implemented with any noticeable degree of success; it integrates within traditional military operations elements of traditional diplomacy and nontraditional socio-cultural interaction with civilian populations to ease the transition to a secure and stable state; it requires rules of engagement that attempt to deal with the thinly defined boundaries that separate civilians from combatants, ROE’s that have been highly contentious and possibly not always successful or defensible; and it has to work around the no. 1 economy that sustains a marginal lifestyle on what is essentially a barren pile of rocks – until the mineral industry gets developed, another long-term operation.
All of which I recognize to be a grating noise to the ears of those who side with conventional warfare. Maybe I should post this under the Misrata thread but the vectors, if you will, of international engagement (DIME) are becoming entangled in ways that will be hard to reverse. All of which are generic observations dangerously removed from the detailed analysis that would give weight of authority to the suggested policy positions.
It seems to be working – with the help of generous amounts of money. Post-9/11, the intelligence agencies were exposed like deer in the headlights. Petraeus is ideally suited to change that, at least in the ME. He knows all the players.
I’m assuming this board is concerned about his political electability and cool to the idea of a President Petraeus.
Wouldn’t a ‘Squash the supposed Adobe Illustrator nonsense’ method be take another Hawaiian minority born ~1961 and compare their(s) BC to the Obama BC?
Just a thought.
Pascal Fervor @ 255:
This T-Room site is priceless. The article you’ve quoted is the single best link I’ve seen that brings together all the best evidence in one place from the most expert and authoritative debunkers of this latest bc . Can’t thank you enough.
After watching Shepard Smith’s egregiously ignorant, insulting diatribe a few days ago, then a clip of Lawrence O’Donnell’s hate-filled, vicious interview of Orly Taitz, then an equally shocking one of WND’s George Farah (also on msnbc), my skin was literally crawling with the nightmarish feeling I’d somehow entered a time warp and was witnessing a team of Brown Shirt interrogators at work. It was textbook “de-humanize the enemy first and then people will let you do anything to them” at work. As I think about it now in broad daylight, it still makes me shiver. When this monstrous deception finally all unravels, and I get the feeling that’s going to happen pretty soon, the stalwarts who’ve stood up to this mockery, shunning, censorship, and isolation will deserve to be acknowledged and resoundingly thanked by all Americans.
COIN Guidelines (July 2010)
Of course, his grandmother was really his mother, and Stanley Ann merely his half-sister.
That explains why his “mother” was so unmaternal, and why his “grandmother” raised him.
YBR @ 261 asked:
“I’m not sure I understand the nature of the hostility to Petraeus. I’m not sure if the skepticism is anti-Petraeus or anti-COIN.”
For what it’s worth, I’m not hostile towards Petraeus. I think he’s a patriot and would probably vote for him in an honest election. However I also believe the United States is in serious trouble for many different reasons. The process of Obama’s election indicated a democratic system suffering from serious decay. I suspect our nation is very near a historical branch point. An extremely skilled and intelligent general like Petraeus is precisely the sort of person who could trigger that branch point.
Why didn’t any other president get pressed or harrassed to produce or show their birth certificate? Is it because he is black? Is it because is name is Barack Obama? I’m confused! What you are implying is lunatic. That the government is covering and assisting in a lie about Obama’s citizenship.. Remember he’s a black man, so who will actually help him do this? Really, if he was not a citizen believe me you would know about it..
Besides you continue with these claims he will get re-elected because nobody is fighting him on world on U.S. issues, it’s only mindless chatter, rumors, and conspiracy theories.. and who will profit in allowing a non citizen to become president?
Because if he was not a citizen (but he is) what American citizens are helping him with this “great lie”?
Now why do you need his transcripts? I mean this goes on and on.. I say like this shut up, don’t vote for him vote for anybody else and call it a day.. Because you do sound crazy..
Could what you describe as elements of the Right infighting possibly be some mutation of one of five media created cracks created for roaches of treason to hide and reproduce? Far left, left, middle, right, and far right or any combination of such only hide what once was described as either patriot of traitor with the latter seeking the shadows of shame for extended existence.
When all their efforts along with all pundits and media omissions have failed to calm patriotic turbulence, where will all those abusing their first amendment blog freedom hide with media anchors cheering them on from roach crowded shelters of shame. Some of the proof is right there but many will continue to ignore it with suave media guidance and never being advised of the possibility of encountering the salutation “Make my day, punk”!
Court delay defense remains the prime deterrent of discovery process wherein the looming inevitability of proverbial fecal matter hitting the fan persists. Don’t wait for an affirmation quack when you hear the command “DUCK”!
The posting by trolls on Belmont Club is usually directly proportional to the sensitivity of an issue to the One. Given the posting numbers and insistence of posters, I’d say the sensitivity is up to eleven. The trolls have talking points and instructions to vote early and often. There is a disturbance in the force. The game is not over. There is something afoot.
What is a natural-born citizen? I don’t know and nobody knows for sure, given the paucity of jurisprudence and precedent regarding the issue.
Is John McCain a natural-born citizen. Probably. Ultimately a decision would be up to the Supreme Court. If Dems challenged McCain’s natural-born status, a decision might have cut against their candidate also; hence, no challenge. A resolution of the Senate that McCain was eligible is meaningless but probably a good indication of public opinion.
How about Bobby Jindal? Born on U.S. soil to non-citizens, so therefore a natural-born citizen? Obama has a good claim to be a natural born citizen, having one parent who was a citizen and being born in a U.S. possession.
The reality of the situation is that the Supreme Court will ultimately need to adjudicate the issue of what ‘natural-born’ means in a particular case.
The reality of the situation is also that Barack Obama and the Democrats knew that there were shadows of doubt regarding Obama’s natural-born status and proceeded regardless to nominate him. The correspondence regarding this decision must surely exist, and some day historians will have the opportunity to study the nomination and election strategies.
The default of U.S. opinion seems to be that if you are a citizen and born in the U.S., you are a natural born citizen. Canal Zone, U.S. territory or posession, military base (born to U.S. citizens), etc., are matters of complication, but ultimately perhaps not crucial. Except to the party hoping to discredit the opposition candidate.
The issue of whether the birth certificate is a fraud is a separate question.
Here’s a trip down memory lane from Democratic Underground in October 2008:
“BORN IN THE COLON HOSPITAL!
“Colon is the capital of Colon Province in the Republic of Panama. Never at any time has Colon been a part of the Panama Canal Zone, or any other entity, military or civilian, controlled by the U.S. Government. Colon has for the entirety of its 150 year history been wholly a part of the Republic of Panama.
“Therefore Senator McCain was born in the Republic of Panama. Not on base.
“Therefore Senator McCain may be as much a citizen of Panama as the United States.
“Yes, not on base, and NOT at CoCo Solo Family Hospital as he said, and supposedly showed to the reporter. Was that BC he showed…a forgery?
Why did he refuse to release it to the public?
Is it because it was a phony?
Has ANYONE seen that one where it says CoCo Solo?
“Why did John McCain lie about where he was born?”
“Spread the message! Let everyone know about the lunacy of these RepubliCON party trying to twist the attention away form their sex scandals, and hiding the facts about John McCain.”
The layers in the green document is caused by OCR software. NOT by nefarious people. Just wanted to post that info here.
I’ve checked all the layers in Illustrator. And it is congruent with how OCR software would make it look.
OCR software separates text from images and background for the purpose of running text recognition and also to enhance the visuals to make a document more sparkling and readable.
Text is made black, graphics is made pretty and background is made white. Why they chose to do this on a document who’s single purpose was to look authentic is curious. It probably wasn’t by choice but more likely because of ignorance, incompetence, arrogance and laziness. All the usual suspects we’ve come to love about government agencies.
The fact that Barack Obama would appoint General Petraeus as Director of the CIA is eye-opening. Isn’t this General Betray Us? What happened? How did he go from Architect of the Surge to this? Is this transformation that we can believe in? Obama is truly wondering aimlessly….but at least has enough brains to know he better have a licensed driver behind the wheel.
JL@270
If that is the nature of OCR, why would anyone use that method to produce such an important document? To perpetuate controversy?
Natural Born Citizen is:
A person who is born on U.S. soil period.
A person who has atleat one parent that is a U.S. Citizen. (To elaborate is one parent is from California and the other parent is from Spain. The Child will have what you call Dual Citizenship, but the dual status will be ineffective if the child remains in the U.S. and that parent (the one from Spain) doesn’t file the correct paperwork in Spain to keep that citizenship.
Now you may say well Obama has dual citizenship? Well this is not true as his father never did any paperwork in the host country of Africa to claim that citizenship.
There you go, that is a Natural Born Citizen.. If you don’t believe that challenge me on it.. I know the law and the constitution.
Don, I suggest you school up.
http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/
As to McCain, Congress passed a bipartisan resolution that he was a citizen and OK to serve as president. Being born of two US citizens while stationed on active duty at an offshore US military base certainly meets any common sense understanding of the requirements.
The consequences of McCain NOT being a citizen and not being OK for the presidency under such circumstances would be very negative on our military.
#275, Whitehall–Yeah, a 2008 Sense of the Senate Resolution, S. Res. 511, that got some debate and short legal opinions about the definition of “natural born citizen” included in its legislative history that–should the issue ever arise–would probably be beneficial to Obama, and give cover for members of Congress who might want to side with Obama in any dispute on this issue.
Who introduced S. Res. 511? Far left Obama ally Senator Claire McCaskell. Who cosponsored the bill and worked to guarantee its swift passage out of the normally contentious Senate Judiciary Committee, through the Senate without any hearings, and on to a unanimous voice vote (i.e. no individual votes were recorded)–all in the very short space of two weeks? Why, cosponsors far Left Senator Leahy, Chairman of the Judiciary Committee, the usually “no show” Senator Obama–who came off his permanent campaign on the road, and who was, uncharacteristically, very keenly interested in and involved in the passage of this bill–Senator Hillary Clinton, and Republican Senator Coburn–so that it could be termed a “bipartisan bill.
“Thinking ahead,” indeed.
I were pouring over the raw data (viewing the doc in hex editor) and found some interesting info that would likely put the OCR hypothesis into R.I.P. territory. It may take a while, I have to get OCR apps that are particular for the system this has been produced on, as I would like to produce comparison output in the case the available apps use the same rendering engine the document was produced with. I should eliminate unsuitable applications and be left with ones that were capable of producing the doc. Preliminary conclusion is that the list is fairly small and does not contain OCR apps. But I want to be sure. Probably 3-4 weeks before I can make the final assessment.
As for the motives, it is debatable. Generally two options, 1. the producer was sloppy; 2. the “sloppiness” was intentional to keep the controversy as a distraction from other issues.
#1 does not negate #2. The “in your face” and “what are you gonna do about it, make my day, I’ve got minions” is the likely outcome. Unless, there is something connected to this, some unexpected detail that may turn this approach on its head.
@255. Pascal Fervor — “Yep, they are identical. The original “fraudulent” Kenyan birth certificate somehow has the same time of birth, 7:24 PM, as Bummer’s reluctantly released long form.
If the Kenyan BC was a fraud, and the Hawaiian has supposedly been under lock and key until early this week, how did the alleged Kenyan forger know that last year?
But the originally released short form certificate states 7:24 pm as the time of birth. How does the Kenyan forger get linked to the long form, when he could have copied from the already released short form?
http://www.prisonplanet.com/new-obama-birth-certificate-is-a-forgery.html
RWR, I had no idea what was on the short form because I never gave a damn about this red herring two years ago, let alone this week, other than to make a joke of it. Perhaps you didn’t catch my string of puns early in this thread (up at 124).
The opportunity to make a joke of the plagiarist in the White House, the oldest among a bunch of juveniles, the gift that keeps on giving, was simply too enticing not to offer it up.
Once again I encourage people to add to my list of substantive trampling of the constitution by the creatures who run the nation from that forty square miles of once perfectly respectable swamp that is now an open sewer.
It might help too if people were to read Capua’s commentary that I highlighted and linked up at 185.
Repeating my suggestion at 124:
Enough with the bad puns and chasing after the renewed red herring. Come to my blog and add to my list of principles and constitutional limit breeches by this fraudulent “defender” of America. Answer a resounding NO! to the question “Must You Fiddle While America Burns?” Let’s get a handle on the still growing number of extra-constitutional assaults so we might have a chance to defend against them and turn back the tide.
Open Blog.
Why miss the obvious? Obama is clearly hiding something. The question is — What?
The most likely thing relates not to his birth but to his actions when he was adult. Did he take an Indonesian passport? Did he get foreign student status at college in the US?
Early on in the manufacture of Obama, someone decided that the only way to hide the damaging stuff was to hide everything — with the full cooperation of a willing media. When Donald Trump made the heat too high to continue the “zero disclosures” approach, Obama’s advisers released a clever document — it convinces those (like the media) who are willing to be convinced, while leaving those with doubts with ample reasons to keep tugging at this particular loose end (hence the clues to the document’s inauthenticity). This distracts people from the more damaging issue of what Obama did at the ages of 18 and 21.
But don’t worry — the truth will out. Obama’s game plan is probably to renounce US citizenship at the end of his regime, and get chosen as UN General Secretary as an Indonesian. Hence the ploy to have comic book Superman renounce his US citizenship in front of the UN. Just paving the way for Teh Won.
Obamatroll dropped a gratuitous racial condescension at #comment-156225. Rapid cleanup and fumigation recommended.
Note that President Obama released this birth certificate on the day of the British royal wedding. My wife was consumed by the wedding spectacle and had no time to focus on the bogus presidential BC.
@272 Aristide
Note: This is pure speculation.
The person that performed the scan most likely has no idea about how the software works. He or she probably just put the paper in the MFP device and pressed the button. Then a few Obama handlers looked over the scan on the computer screen. And then they simply send the file to the webmasters of the whitehouse.gov site and told them to publish the file.
Your average MTV-watching, American-Idol-voting, farmville-playing citizen won’t notice this, and I don’t expect them to. Not many people have had experience with image or document manipulation beyond ms word and paint. Many people aren’t even aware that half of the fiery explosions in movies these days are CGI (there’s a distinct color and glow created by gasoline jugs wrapped in detcord). The signs of authenticity (or fraud) are always in the mundane details that sit right Unser your nose most of the time, and most people will fail to look at. Most people think that things like misspellings, incorrect names and dates, unprofessional-looking format, etc, are the signs of a forgery. This is not the case. On Obama’s birth certificate, all of the information (except serial numbers, which are beyond control) will be consistent with his story. The key to unraveling it is to look at how the document was produced.
I noticed this about the document right away: it’s an overlay, at minimum. The safety paper background was added to an overlaid scan or series of scans. I can tell this because there is the telltale black gradient fade of a page sloping toward the binding in the upper left. Also, the origin of the form (perhaps not the text, but at least the form) appears to be a photograph rather than a xerox or digital scan. This is evident in how the perspective angle of the page slope at the top left is different from the bottom left. The viewing angle at the bottom of the page is head-on, perpendicular to the page face. The top of the page is being viewed at an angle, which is why we can see the curvature of the top edge of the page.
Digital scanners produce a perspective-less image. In other words, on a scanned document, the viewing angle is head-on no matter which part of the page you’re looking at.
I don’t know about older photocopiers. But now that I think about it, I’m positive that the old xerox machines also scanned across the document rather than snapping a picture, because of the way the toner drum transfers ink to the copy page.
Then there’s the layers. OCR doesn’t create these kinds of overlapping layers. There are parts of the document where certain characters in the same word are in different layers. This doesn’t happen with OCR.
Also, there are parts where the layers overlap, such as where the signature and field label overlap.
The document is a fraud, and you don’t need an expert in authentication or a veteran graphic artist to determine this.
Also, to those employing the argument that if the president forged a certificate, it would be “the best that money can buy”.
Don’t be so sure. Its evident that the WH was never intending to release a certificate. Trump forced the issue, and it appears the WH scrambled to produce something. So, we get this poorly-made pdf mashup.
Also, forgeries can only fool those who trust and those who don’t know how to authenticate. You can’t forge everything. Counterfeit bills from the same batch will have the same serial number. Forged signatures will have jitter and evidence of retracing. This particular document is loaded with evidence of hasty and inexperienced modification.
It does not behoove Conservatives to dismantle Barack Obama’s presidency via a technicality. Better is to beat his vision of advancing a socialist state with a majority-based clarion call that rejects such contrived and superficial principles and makes clear what a resolution does NOT involve (redistributionism), becoming a mandate: Unoverbearing government.
Just imagine, if anything could come to fruition concerning Barack’s eligibility it would only rekindle the fury in liberal’s biased hearts and make them more bullish and “persecuted”. There is no reason to stoke their pride by pulling the plug on their short-term victory, or trying in vain to do so. There simply is no precedent that can have any effect on Barack’s natural-born citizen status, even if his father was a foreigner and his mother couldn’t legally bestow citizenship to her son. One hundred percent of liberals will never accept that a person born on American territory to an American citizen mother is NOT a natural-born citizen. And how many Conservatives would agree? Lead from the front, beat liberals on the up-and-up, and it will be a true beating.
I think it is obvious when you look at this new long form Birth Certificate why the alleged author of “Dreams of my Father” felt compelled, either on his own or per his advisers, to hide this Birth Certificate for so long. I thought it would label him as a Muslim born in Hawaii. It did not. But it does make obvious that a Black 25 year old, non-American guest of our country, got an 18 year old native pregnant, and then, as we all know, he dumped her, had more children elsewhere and died in a drunken car accident taking care of none of his progeny. Not an admirable story. I am not a racist, but in running for President in 21st Century America, are the advisers going to want it out there that the man who did this was African, and the native he did it to was Caucasian? I think this is what they were trying to hide, since that side always thinks in racist terms anyway. No one seems to want to say this, but I have to admit, this is the way I read these people.
tbf@277: “what are you gonna do about it, make my day, I’ve got minions”
There’s a lot of that going around. I was puzzled at the recent resignation/termination-for-cause of David Sokol from Berkshire Hathaway. If one wants to ask a “why” question try this: why would anyone in his right mind, with the proper professional credentials, abandon a future of stability, security, and comfort for himself, his family, his grandkids, and several generations out for nothing but a rookie-level ‘mistake’? I’m not buying ‘mistake.’ I think what we saw in grave detail was the persistence of an attitude of entitlement and immunity from prosecution among the western elite. It is nothing less than a trend-line, which, if not reversed, will lead to populist revolt, ‘fueled’ by an energy transition that will impact lower to middle classes first and hardest. Private planes can be scaled down. Clunkers not so easily.
To paraphrase a fellow billionaire, Leona Helmsley, that’s for people who don’t have minions.
I agree with EB@89 although perhaps with an attitudinal twist. The circumstances surrounding Obama’s birth are likely to be embarrassing, at a minimum awkward, in a very personal sense. In a professional sense, they encroach on his biographical narrative with predictable consequences for a public figure of consequence.
Some great points.