Fausta has been following events in Honduras. Start here and keep scrolling down. Ferdsblog has tried to summarize events from the point of view of whether or nor Hugo Chavez gets to extend his sphere of influence. My guess is that the domestic Honduran situation is complex, but the international politics of the crisis are not. Both the anti-Zelaya and Zelaya groups appear to have supporters on the ground, if this entrepeneurial blogger who lit out for the Honduras with nothing but a notebook is right. From the international political perspective, Chavez is undoubtedly backing the ousted President Zelaya.
Zelaya himself appears to be riding the ever present tide of resentment against the elite to position himself as a populist strongman. Whether or not he is a convinced Marxist, the success of the Chavez formula has probably encouraged others to copy his authoritarian methods, whatever their actual ideologies. Everybody who wants power — permanently — wants to be another Chavez. And there is no shortage of unrest in Latin American countries that a politician can’t appeal to in order to justify an extended grip on power. The AP cites an area expert as saying that Zelaya was moving towards an authoritarianism. That much seems clear. What is debatable is what he intended to do with power once he got it.
The Honduran coup last Sunday was swift and bloodless. But the tension that culminated in Zelaya’s overthrow had been building for months as his politics and rhetoric moved left, and he aligned himself closer to Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez.
Though Zelaya made no sweeping changes, his alliance with a president who abolished term limits and is making an economic shift toward socialism was unsettling to the business and political elite who still run Honduras — and from whose ranks Zelaya originally came.
“There’s a sense of Zelaya overstepping his power and confusion over this embracing Chavez,” said Peter DeShazo, who directs the Americas Program for the Washington-based Center for Strategic and International Studies.
Barack Obama has so far taken the position that Zelaya remains the President of Honduras and has acted to restore him through the Organization of American States (OAS) and by suspending bilateral military relations. The OAS recently threatened to expel Honduras, but the current Honduran government pre-empted them by withdrawing from membership. In response the OAS said that Honduras had no right to withdraw because it isn’t the legal government. They’re like the boss who won’t let you resign. They want to make a point of firing you.
The goal of the US is ostensibly to restore the status quo ante and use negotiations to resolve things from there. But with the positions between the two parties hardening, things may be moving towards a zero-sum game. In a winner-take-all scenario Zelaya either wins or loses. If Zelaya is kept out by the Honduran interim government, the new guys will have established themselves, baggage and all, in the saddle. If Zelaya returns it may represent a clear victory for the Chavez camp in Latin America. The new guys will be toast. My guess is that unless an amicable solution can be brokered quickly, the choices will be stark. Chavez’s bad (or not so bad) guy versus a bad (or not so bad) guy opposed to Chavez. How will the Hondurans fare? Poorly in any case. In power plays of this kind, no matter what anyone says, it is never about the poor. At the end of the day, they will be just as poor, or poorer, than ever.
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It’s amazing that Obama has gotten no domestic political heat for backing a Chavez friend, and for not backing the Honduran power structure, which has been very pro-US. Are the Republicans sleeping, or waiting on events?
Are the Republicans sleeping, or waiting on events?
The Democrats have a lot of “first responders” on a wide variety of issues. There are for example, leftist NGOs with established pro-Zelaya positions who pull in the media and the media in turn pulls in the bureaucrats. It acts like a shot line, which pulls across the thicker messenger line or a succession of thicker cables which ultimately provides purchase to transfer the main cables in a transfer between ships at sea. By this incremental method, even huge vessels can be linked to one another — and quickly.
But the Republican Party, it seems to me, is too dependent on a few established “names”. The grassroots don’t have an efficient way to pull a messenger line over. Therefore days and even weeks pass before a “name” eventually bestirs himself to respond. By then, it may be too late. Although parts of the conservative system respond quickly, regarded in its totality, the conservative OODA loop is far too slow, I think. In my opinion (and it’s just that) the conservatives have a middleware problem. That’s why I think that organizations like Pajamas Media for all its shortcomings, plays a potentially important role in pulling the messenger line over. But it’s far from sufficient. It’s not just in the about messages, but in mobilizing for political action too. Well, I’ve prattled on for too long.
Wretchard: You hint at a problem I have often thought about. Does conservatism suffer from itself? The current Honduran crisis and the information war being waged once again betrays the difficulty and contradiction of the ‘group of individuals’. As a societal norm, we know it works. As a play for power, we know it fails.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0xUSvVpSwQ
Subotai Bahadur, one of our commenters, is apparently going to be a speaker at a Tea Party. I know that many other commenters are working in their own way and on their own scales, to do something. That is the best thing than can come from reading the Belmont Club. It’s not a site where people come to admire the work of an author. If you want to do that, buy Tolstoy. This is a Web 2.0 site where the commenters provide a large part of the content. To a great extent, they are the site. If that’s to mean anything it should spill over into things like speaking at Tea Parties. I know one guy who is thinking of running for local office. Way to go.
Well wretchard and urban, they have these “first responders”, because they are paid to do it, mostly by the taxpayer either directly or indirectly. Whether it is a paid activist, a “foundation intellectual”, or a professor or a “journalist”, they are given a salary.
The solution is to drain that swamp of as much taxpayer money as possible, reform the Academy and hold the MSM accountable via their pocketbooks. Reforming the slander and libel laws might go a long way too. The nonprofit regulations need to be reformed too. NGO’s should not be allowed to have any influence on policy whatsoever.
There is not enough cash to go around to duplicate this structure they have built over the decades, and not enough time either.
That being said, buying some air time to explain just who vipers like Chavez are would be a wonderful thing, if thry could get it aired that is.
We have to stop being polite to these people and stop letting them control narratives and appropriate language. We need to start calling people like Pelosi what they are: Fascist and communists, and do it to their faces.
On top of that, the GOP needs to stop worrying what these people think.
The solution is to get enough power to reform this mess, and you will get in power by fighting them tooth and nail at every turn. That is how they got in power.
Now, now, we do come here to admire your work, it may not be the sole reason or the ulitmate reason, but let us not throw out the baby with the bathwater here.
And BC serves the function of forming debate among readers, airing alternate points of views and insights and debunking a lot of the hokum.
It is hard to know the impact of all of this or the direction it will take. There may be better forums to be rallying points.
Ultimately this cannot be solved solely by local action.
Well the Left is built to defend itself, not to actually do anything like produce goods, services or happiness. It’s a meme which has evolved under evolutionary pressure, to self-replicate and survive. But it is also a parasite. Ultimately it kills its host. It killed its local host, the Soviet Union, but the global system provided enough energy for it survive. Its dormant form in the West, freed from the drag of the Eastern Bloc soon soaked up all the free nutrients it could. It soon bloated the UN, NGOs, Western Welfare State, EU, etc into tumors. This worked well enough as long as the economic system provided enough resources to tax. But now it’s gotten a hold of the United States, the ultimate prize; and it is in the process of strangling it. It’s like the Blob, feeding at an exponential rate. A million, a billion, a trillion. Soon a quadrillion dollars will not be enough to feed its appetite. It already wants to terraform the world; rearchitecture mankind. It may succeed in launching these disastrous projects, and in that case, the Left will eventually meet its end with people scraping it off with rocks from the ruins of the old world. But the parasite will kill itself. That’s the good news. In that scenario, winning will mean being able to read about it in the newspapers as opposed to being covered with a newspaper to shield passers by from a shocking sight. Winning means survival.
But maybe there are better outcomes. I’m hoping, for example, that we can develop a counter-meme quickly enough to get the Leftist idea to mutate to the mean. Every pathogen that becomes too virulent will, if contained, develop a benign version of itself consistent with the survival of the host. Another winning scenario is if the Left can be made to evolve towards a reasonable state. In that case we’ll be back to living in an imperfect, but liveable world.
Which it will be, I don’t know. I hope to live long enough to find out, or at least guess the outcome.
that wasn’t a prattle –the image of the ships at sea is very strong. could also use the spider web –something touches it and the spider is on it like a flash, spinning a web around it. The event is soon enough like the humans put up in Alien’s larder –alive but begging for death.
Whether we like it or not, the left’s pc rules have infiltrated the Republican party. In addition, many people feel that “calling a spade a spade” is somehow behaving like them. But, as Mongoose stated, our party is not willing to stand up & be honest, in the end we will all be standing in shock, pointing fingers at each other and blaming. The direction our country is currently headed would make our founding fathers roll over in their grave. What exactly will it take for the Reblicans to get po’d enough to take our country back?
Well wretchard, I have a better idea: Destroy the parasite, crush the meme, reduce it not to a “mean” but to nothing more than memory, and that memory can serve a sort of antibody. Make of it a Cautionary Tale and nothing more.
In this regard, I often think we need a frontier: Send them to the Lunar Colony, open up the national forest to homesteading, Invade Canada and make them homestead there, ship them of to the antipodes–force them to do something actual and real. It is the one of only two “suasions” that they are open to, and the more humane of the two. But get them out from among us.
(OK, so I am getting a little carried away, but you get my meaning.)
With all due respect, let me suggest that it is wishful thinking that they can be somehow “brought back to a normal level” that can be sustained, and it is a woolly headed to think that there is a “mean” to be had with them, that there are truly “benign parasites”. Historically, philosophically or spiritually there is nothing necessary, permanent or normative about these sorts of parasites. Such a vast, pagan, churning collectivist swill has until recently been far back in our past. They are “purveyors of rejected knowledge”. The Great 30 Years Civil War of 20th Century Europe enabled them to “mutate”, as you say, and thrive, but they are as foreign to us as the practice of ritual human sacrifice.
It is high past time to be done with them. Make them pay their own way–and pay back what they have stolen–and soon enough we will be rid of them. Civilization cannot tolerate them and yet survive, let alone prosper.
BTW, not just subotai but the agoraphobic plumber (he must’ve finally gotten tired of replumbing his own house) testified recently nearby that he was going back into teaching with the express purpose of subverting the leftist narrative thru telling kids the truth.
so there’s another taking direct committed action.
mongoose/10; there’s not really that many of them, i don’t think. Stateside, a hundred thousand sounds about right. What they have is millions of thinly-committed fashionistas reliably voting and forgetting. Those fashionistas, AKA ordinary people let loose from fear of God, are the ‘mean’ that i think w is talking about. they’re okay, with proper leadership. Cleaning up the popular culture –re establishing a old-timey First Amendment that is not a cultural suicide pact nor a pass to molest and abuse the innocent, would be a place to start. But how to do it? Tough job, in a secular environment.
One of the Left’s greatest strengths and the reason they can have so many “troops” deployed is that they have prepackaged scripts ready to deploy instantly. Big country whumping up on little country. Military coup throws out an elected leader. Racial injustice. Poor people starve while rich people play. Environmental disaster brought on by greedy capitalists. Valiant unions fighting evil management.
Nobody on their side has to think about these.
Problem is, when the little country is Iraq or Iran, and the big country is the USA, or the elected official is trying to become a dictator, or it is the rich people that are feeding the poor, or the racial minority is the one causing the problem, or the union workers have impoverished themselves, then these prepackaged subroutines are no longer appropriate. But they don’t care.
They only know how to run the same old subroutines, over and over. Maybe they are the real Cylons or Skynet Terminators or Fred Saberhagen’s Berserkers of fiction. Kill Sara Conner – CORRECTION – Kill Sara Palin. Iraq is Vietnam. Iran is Panama.
They are just running the same old programs over and over and have forgotten why.
May be of interest?
…-
“Always in the wrong place
by Anthony Daniels
On the relics of oppression.
When I went to Romania shortly before the downfall of the Ceauscescu regime, the Romanians (to judge by the displays in the bookshops) seemed to be a nation of stereochemists: for displayed to the exclusion of almost everything else in the bookshop windows was a volume entitled The Stereospecific Characterization of Isoprene. Perhaps the authorship, or the alleged authorship, of this volume explained its strange popularity: that of Elena Ceauscescu, Doctor of Science and Member of the Romanian Academy.
I did not know why the dictator’s wife had chosen chemistry as the realm of her supposed genius and world-fame. Nevertheless, I considered buying a copy, but then thought better of it. Surely any assistant in a bookshop would suspect me of wanting to expose it to satire, ridicule, and mockery on my return home? In a totalitarian society, participation in the cult of personality is easily interpreted as subversive, while failure to participate is tantamount to rebellion. In other words, where lies are the very lifeblood of the state, paranoia is inevitable.”
“The book stand at the London Book Fair, nearly twenty years later, was sufficient proof of a revolutionary change. A mad monomania had been replaced by a healthy—or is it merely normal?—diversity. By this, I mean real diversity, not the academic Newspeak form that means a combination of submissive mental conformity and public profession of adherence to certain secular pieties. For people who live by ideas, no change could be more profound or important.
Among the books on the stand I found one that had an almost physical effect on me. It was a book of photographs, with the title Kombinat: Ruine Industriale ale Epocii de Aur, translated as Kombinat: Industrial Ruins of the Golden Era.[2] The Golden Era, of course, was the name that Ceauscescu and his acolytes modestly gave to the period of their own rule, and anyone who had the slightest experience of it could not mistake the depth of the irony of the book’s title, a symptom of a pent-up fury and despair so great that sometimes a brief verbal snort of contempt seemed, and seems, the only possible, constructive, and self-preserving response. But of course it is not enough.
There was a time not so very long ago when I despised books of photographs. I took the opposite view to that of Alice,…”.
http://www.newcriterion.com/articles.cfm/Always-in-the-wrong-place-4112
I do not take him to mean that at all, perhaps he can clarify it for the both of us.
But buddy, there are millions of them, and million more of the “fashionistas”.
There may be 100,000 of the core in Texas alone. I live in NYC, and there are at least a million of the core here. And of course the issue is not just the fashinistas, these are the least of our worries, there are the federal employees, the NEA, the MSM, the water carriers in the large Corporations, etc., shrewd , pragmatic and well positioned players all, and their eyes are wide open. The problem is not just the Stalinist ideological core, you know. The whole edifice has to come down. The whole structure of it. It is not just the patronage system, it is the whole internalize conceit of it that must go. We have to get our hands out of each other pockets, squash the narcissism and cherish and save our civilization–what is left of it. And BTW, there is really not much of a cure for the narcissist even when the scales fall from his eyes. Little of this is trivial or cosmetic. It certainly is not just about “memes”; not at all.
That is rather my point, it is foolish to imagine that these people can be reformed. Their whole world will alter, they will not like it one bit and they will “mutate” back too where they were before. It is an artificial order brought on by historical contretemps and happenstance.
That these people can exist and flourish is a strong and vibrant culture is not a normative at all. We cannot stop it until we see that simple fact. We are decadent and at a crossroads. The wrong choice is fatal.
It all has to go, and with it, most likely they will have to go, particularly if matters get serious enough. We are talking about millions of people that do nothing useful and who understand nothing real, and in fact have deep hatred for both the real and the useful.
That is the whole point. The Israelite had to wander for 40 years in the desert so that those who had learned the way of slaves would pass away.
Cold Civil War or hot Civil War, it is nonetheless war we are in, and our side is no doing so hot right now.
We can talk about local action all we want, but Obama selling us out to Putin, Soros, et all, is a whole other order of magnitude of a problem, a whole other order of battle, if you will.
It can only be turned by a massive political and social sea change.
Manuel Zelaya vows to return to power in Honduras, a power he intends to keep, following in the footsteps of his pal Hugo Chavez. The president of the United States has sided with the left wing fascist who had designs on being president for life and against the people in Honduras who prefer democracy. As the great Hank Williams explained it,
ManZelaya, a craw fish pie and a fillet gumbo
‘Cause tonight I’m gonna see my maChavez Hugo
When Obam, keep things calm, we’ll be gay-o
Son of a gun, we’ll make them run, and obey-o
Wretchard,
Thanks for the link to my son’s blog. Interesting young man. Just got out of the Marines, working for the family business (lowest paid employee, next to his Mother). Was in the Philippines during the mud slide a couple of years ago. We were making a delivery on Wednesday afternoon and talking about the lack of coverage in Honduras. Next thing I know, he is buying a camera and a plane ticket…suppose to start school at OU this fall. We will see.
He just posted some new pics of a big pro Zelaya rally today. Writing up his commentary now. He is fluent in Spanish so he is picking up a lot of “man on the street” interviews. Said we are not getting the full story here in the states. He will be pleased to see your link. I turned him onto your page during his first tour in Ramadi. Again, thanks.
The truly repulsive thing is that ideology is usually just a mask. The rubes believe it, but to the truly powerful its just an excuse to grab and wield power.
It may be true that power corrupts, but I think the real truth of the matter is that the corrupt are drawn toward power, and ideologies that insist upon the concentration of power are merely constructs by which the corrupt seek to obtain it. As Hitler noted, the “best” Nazis were former Bolsheviks. Its not the message–its the license of behavior it gives you.
It is well for Americans to remember on this 4th of July that there was a movement to make George Washington, our first President, the King of the United States. Washington scorned the idea. The true mark of a leader who is worthy of leading a free people is that, when offered the One Ring of Power, they turn it down.
I suspect that the number of “leaders” we have in high positions of power in the government now who fit such a description could all be counted with the fingers on one hand.
the leninists win because they have the correct goal: political isolation. in russia, the goal was to “isolate” the czar so that, all the pillars of his power *as an institution* eviscerated, the aristocracy and bourgeoisie (politicial parties) squabbling into neutralization, and – most importantly – the armed forces demoralized, leaving the avenue open for the party vanguard, and suddenly the czar is just a man, floating high above the rest of society like a balloon.
i’d say the key to counter-isolation, counter-revolution is Education. bezmenov points this out, though in possibly the most depressing minutes of his G Edward Griffin appearance: “even if you start right now, this minute, educating a new generation in the ways of Americanism – American patriotism, it will still take you 15 to 20 years” to counteract the results of the Marxism in the 60s, implanted into millions of soft heads by the Leninists and Stalinists of the 1920s and 30s.
Since we don’t have 15 or 20 years, and the Leninists have succeeded in converting an entire new generation – my generation – to the substance if not the label of their subversions through the Iraq War, the Counter-Jihad, and Global Warming, among other things, we need an aggressive, “vanguard of the party” strategy. At least some analogue of it.
Probably it has to do with education. The most striking thing about my debates during the last 8 years has been the experience of gently introducing some basic facts about a culture or certain characteristic historical episodes – episodes anyone frm that culture knows like we know Washington and the cherry tree – and they have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. They are utterly ignorant of any actual facts aside from the crap delivered by such people as David Corn, or Reza Aslan, or Fareed Zakariah – and that’s if you’re lucky. More commonly it’s the “be nice, hate Republicans” subtlty of Oprah or whatnot. The fact is Leninism is a truly ingenious and absolutely persuasive ideology – but it is completely impotent in the face of facts. And, people being what they often are, it’s only once the facts are known that their moral sonar can decipher the blips.
But then the most efficient mode of cultural instruction, Hollywood, is completely subverted. Hypothesis: we are f-cked.
“But the parasite will kill itself. That’s the good news.”
Indeed! Interesting that the Politically Correct crowd who chant “sustainability” at every opportunity never stop to wonder about the sustainability of big government borrow, regulate & spend.
Sometimes, I think the appropriate attitude would be to acknowledge the good things about the 65 years of progress since the end of World War II — and then let them go. The unstoppable force of ever-growing government is in the process of crashing into the immoveable object of finite fossil fuels. Maybe our challenge should be to plan how to preserve the lessons of what worked & what did not in the democratic experiment and transmit that knowledge on to future generations.
Other times, I notice the ever-growing rise of scofflawism, and feel more optimistic. Not just the scofflawism of an Obama appointing a tax cheat to govern the IRS. Notice the masses of ordinary citizens who ignore speed limits and throw recyclables in with the regular trash. The left-wing big government types have already over-reached; they are losing the audience. Their hour in the sun is already drawing to a close.
walt, ‘man-uel-zelaya’ works nicely with ‘guan-tan-amera’ too.
interesting song, that. the chorus, “guantanamera, guajira guantanamera’ is, people think, referring to guajira the Cubano rhythm, meaning the song title is about itself.
But the author jose fernandez dias (Joseito Fernandez, popularly) meant ‘guajira’ in an older meaning: a peasant girl. So the song is a love song to a peasant girl from guantanamo (or, from the feeling of guantanamo, the ‘guantanamera’).
anyhoo, Jose Marti, the Cuban patriot/poet and national hero of the fight for independence from Spain, he for whom Reagan named Radio Marti, his poems were spontaneously popularly adapted to the song, all over Cuba, signifying cubanos to each other something deep down about yearning to be free.
Nobody should ever underestimate the power of marxist secret police.
Honduras is going to be far far worse off now than before, if marxist dictatorships like Cuba, Venezuela, and the United States get their way and reinstall el manzel.
without US support (counterintelligence), honduras will go down. it’s like a mini-Vietnam we should win; we should probably restart operations against Ortega if we haven’t already. cordon sanitaire may make for a bad strategy against Soviets in Europe, but in Central America it is essential, in the absence of being able to nuke people from orbit.
Gave away the Canal, and currently backstabbing to death the best ally and anti-communist, anti-narcotrafficante warrior we will ever see, Uribe of Colombia –oh well, what the Genovese want, the Genovese get. get in the way of the dope ratlines and the money-laundering, and your ass is grass –the MSM and Business Roundtable (not to mention the speaker of the house) will see to it.
Went for a ride tonight with my wife. Pulled up on a small hill overlooking a large flat area of developments, stores, small manufacturing, etc. and parked. It started about 9:00. Fireworks, large and small, as far as the eye could see. A constant upwards rain of sparks, fire, and light. Large churches and schools had the American flag flying, bathed in searchlights. The drifting smoke from all the fireworks made an eerie picture of the flags as the center of pyramidal columns of light. The mental image of all those fathers, mothers, and children laughing and celebrating the birthday of the greatest nation in the world with joyous hearts; hundreds, thousands, all united in one glorious outpouring… The darkness pulled back and licked its wounds in fear tonight, praise the Lord.
One, we have to understand how it works. One of the first things it did was to invent the concept of “McCarthyism”- that is, to identify something or someone as what it actually is is evil, if is a socialist thing or person.
There is a blogger who goes by Mencius Moldbug who has a very interesting, if extremely long-winded explanation of how he believes the current system came about. I don’t agree with everything he says but he’s very thought provoking.
But maybe more we need to come up with some things we can do *now* to counteract it. Obama is not Carter, he is a lot worse.
When the recession/depression deepens, the NGOs and other cheesy do-gooders will become starved for funds. Lots of parasites will be thrown on the streets. It will be good for them. Let’s make sure the universities and other education institutions are starved for funds too. Eventually, the “non-white studies” and “anti-male studies” departments will be cut.
Some people will actually have to work for a living. Conservatives can use the bad times to take back the culture.
Meanwhile, a simple person like me has already begun to become a scofflaw. I routinely throw garbage in the recyling bin and plastic and metal in the garbage bin. Some of those former NGO parasites can get jobs separating the different kinds of waste materials, just like the poorest people in Cairo do for a living.
Buddy – Thanks for liking my stuff. On the other hand, thanks a lot for the ear worm. I’ll now be singing Guantanamera in my head for days and weeks. And thanks for the history lesson of the song. It is my belief nothing is written in a vacuum, especially love songs, and that anything good and lasting is from the deepest depths of the soul. I wonder who Marti’s guajira was. She must’ve been something special.
I would like to recommend that we continue to buy Danish products.
Now, what does this have to do with Honduras? Everything.
Perhaps now would be a good time to give the Honduran economy a pleasant boost. Imagine a “Buy Honduran” campaign to help the people of Honduras in this time of trial; there are few better ways to help the Honduran people resist threats from Hugo Chavez.
One can buy typical Honduran imports such as coffee, bananas, shoes, and shirts. One could even make life interesting by expressing support for the Honduran people at outfits that practice “fair trade” to help poor people in Honduras. Food cooperatives and health food stores can be used as levers against any proposed embargo of Honduras. For that matter, the “Fair Trade” NGO’s (a favored cause of the Left) could be conceivably turned against Obama’s anti-Honduran foreign policy.
At grocery stores, food coops, health food stores, and gas stations, one can ask about Honduran chocolate. People with connections to large corporations could ask candy and soda manufacturers to switch from using high fructose corn syrup to using Honduran sugar instead. Not only would this help the people of Honduras, but it would also lower American childhood obesity rates. Meanwhile, free trade advocates could push for eliminating tariffs on Honduran sugar.
There are limits to what any of us can do to affect the decisions made by the Obama administration. However, the collective power of millions of consumer decisions in favor of Honduran products may help foil Hugo Chavez’s attempts at hemispheric hegemony.
If anybody else has any more tactical suggestions on how to help the Honduran economy, perhaps those suggestions can be posted here.
“The OAS recently threatened to expel Honduras, but the current Honduran government pre-empted them by withdrawing from membership. In response the OAS said that Honduras had no right to withdraw because it isn’t the legal government.”
Don’t they realize that if Honduras can’t withdraw from the OAS because “it isn’t the legal government” they also can’t be expelled for the same reason?
Wretchard and all,
Want to see how the THUGS work today -
Please go to Atlas Shrugs
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/
and read her latest post:
July 4, 2009: CAIR/ISNA THUGGERY VS. LIFE, LIBERTY AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS
CAIR & Islamic Society of North America
tried to get a man killed by the D.C. POLICE
.. Dave Gaubatz was the first U.S. civilian (1811) Federal Agent deployed to Iraq in 2003. He is the owner of DG Counter-terrorism Publishing. He is currently conducting a 50 State Counter-terrorism Research Tour (CTRT). . He is the owner of DG Counter-terrorism Publishing. He is currently conducting a 50 State Counter-terrorism Research Tour (CTRT). He can be contacted at davegaubatz@gmail.com.
Here is what Dave wrote:
Quick synopsis, of course more coming out later tonight/tomorrow:
1. Went to ISNA/DC to check in. I had prepaid $100.00 fee and had my registration..
2. It was apparent I was ‘flagged’.
3. 8 or 9 ISNA and other men surround me.
4. They refused to tell me who they are or why they want me to leave.
5. One then said CAIR wants you out.
6. They began crowding me. I was professional and told them to step away from me, tell me who they are, and why was I being illegally detained.
7. I told them this could have been avoided if ISNA would have emailed me a cancellation. I told them I want my $100.00 back. Meanwhile I was asking them some tough questions they could not answer.
8. Then the group led me out of the convention; still no names of who they were.
9. I was on the street and noticed at least 3 DC patrol cars. I took pictures. Then I started walking toward my parked car. One patrol car was following me slowly. I stopped took a few pictures of him. Then walked to my car.
10. I got in my car. Three Patrol cars surrounded me and surrounded my vehicle. I was told to get out.
11. I asked what was the problem. Finally one officer showed me a picture CAIR had given them and told them I was a threat. It had four pictures. 3 were with me in Iraq with my M-16 and 9mm, and two I was holding AK-47s in Iraq. CAIR had photocopied the picture of me helping a sick iraqi child from the picture. Then CAIR had cropped my head shot onto a Nazi uniform (which was obvious).
12. The lead cop said this is all CAIR had given them. I told them about the pictures, my background in Iraq, and who I was. They knew nothing of this.
13. CAIR and ISNA had essentially tried to get me killed. The officer said they just had the holocaust shooting. CAIR intentionally misled the officers to make them believe I was just someone who carries guns. CAIR failed to tell them these were pictures from Iraq when I was serving my country.
Bit frustrated right now and hope we can get American people to respond legally or more and more of this will happen to innocent Americans.
What happened to Mr. Gaubatz is an outrage. Bear in mind this is America and these very same Islamists invoke our freedoms to kill our freedom. They invoke freedom of speech to kill freedom of speech. They use lawfare and litigation jihad to silence truth tellers. Dave will be writing a full recounting of today’s events but look at his report thus far.
It’s pretty clear CAIR/ISNA tried to have this man killed or arrested. Expose Islam and risk your life.CAIR/ISNA distributing photos of “threats” to the police is like the Nazis distributing photos of Jews. They are this century’s Nazis. Shouldn’t law enforcement know who the good guys are?
This is America? They set up Gaubatz. They know who he is. Clearly, CAIR and ISNA were hoping for a larger incident.
Gaubatz was surrounded by nine people that had no identification (just wearing suits) when he attempted to register. He asked who they were. Only one of the nine spoke to him, the others just glared. The one that did speak to him asked if he could come with them. He repeatedly asked who they were, because he was not going to go with a group of nine men unless he knew who they were. The individual that was speaking to him refused to identify himself. He asked for a manager, again, because he was not going to walk away with a group of people that he did not know. The only answer he received was, “our parent organization said you were a threat”. He was surrounded for under a half hour. Finally, one individual identified himself as being with the convention center, spoke to Gaubatz. When Gaubatz asked why he was being asked to leave, he stated repeatedly, “I don’t know why”…”They just said you didn’t register”…”I really don’t know”.
They did not say why he was on their list but if you read the Frontpage magazine article about the Cease and Desist letter, this is exactly why he was on the list. His main point for legal recourse is that all of this could have been avoided if ISNA would have called, or sent an email asking him not to be there. Clearly this was done intentionally, with the hopes that DC police would respond to their false claim of threats and the picture of Gaubatz’s war photos and picture of himphoto shopped in a Nazi uniform.
GO READ IT ALL AND PASS IT ON – PLEASE
not to shade the far more important post above, but re Thrasymachus/24; an intro to mencius Moldbug can be found here:
http://neveryetmelted.com/categories/mencius-moldbug/
10. Mongoose:
Well wretchard, I have a better idea: Destroy the parasite, crush the meme, reduce it not to a “mean” but to nothing more than memory, and that memory can serve a sort of antibody.
Mongoose is correct. The Neo-Marxist meme is akin to the “hockey stick” mathematical formula in the global warming argument: it is fundamentally flawed so that no matter what the input the result is catastrophe sooner or later. It cannot be amended to make it workable for the error is in its very nature. The expression must be removed from the equation.
12. RWE
They are just running the same old programs over and over and have forgotten why.
They have most certainly not forgotten why. They do it because they know that normal compassionate people will side with the victim against the perp. By setting up these false dichotomies the Left guides the minds of millions to reflexively agree with part of their agenda and unwittingly support the hidden part along with it. As a form of mass mind control, propaganda, is is very effective. The game of the left is not really to make the world a better place, it is to make it more compliant and thus control it. In short it is a means to power.
14. Mongoose
That these people can exist and flourish is a strong and vibrant culture is not a normative at all. We cannot stop it until we see that simple fact. We are decadent and at a crossroads. The wrong choice is fatal.
I believe this to be correct. See Yuri Bezemov (sp) here: We have, in fact, made a series of wrong choices over the course of many years. The fact that we have not collapsed entirely is due entirely, in my opinion, to the strength and vitality of the order which gives every appearance of passing away.
17. Tcobb:
The truly repulsive thing is that ideology is usually just a mask. The rubes believe it, but to the truly powerful its just an excuse to grab and wield power.
True. Years ago I read several books by Alice Miller (Drama of the Gifted Child, etc.) which outlined the deep insecurities of people who have grasped and abused power monstrously as a psychological defense mechanism. She was not the only one to write on this theme, a German (whose name I forget)
shrink whose book I attempted to read in French (not very successfully) did as well.
18. dan:
… i’d say the key to counter-isolation, counter-revolution is Education. … The fact is Leninism is a truly ingenious and absolutely persuasive ideology – but it is completely impotent in the face of facts. And, people being what they often are, it’s only once the facts are known that their moral sonar can decipher the blips.
But then the most efficient mode of cultural instruction, Hollywood, is completely subverted. Hypothesis: we are f-cked.
Dan it too pessimistic by far. Yes, education is the key, and Hollywood is powerful, but a sea change is coming. The unworkable policies of the Left are being implemented right left and center as fast as H and Congress can ram them through. This is going to result in disaster. Disaster hurts, and times of pain are teachable moments. It is in that time of pain that the right has to have not only a workable solution but a coherent narrative of why things got the way they are. Asimov’s psychohistory is crap, but the idea of Foundation and Empire has merit. When you cannot hold, fall back to prepared positions and get ready to counterattack.
I attended a Tea Party yesterday and after the event I spoke at some little length with a lifetime Republican activist. Although a very smart and competent man he had never heard to Cloven-Piven nor of Yuri Besmenov (sp again). My question to him was, “How do you expect to win against the Left if you don’t even know what tactics they are using to kick your ass again and again? You have ceded the rhetoric to them, and thereby the are fighting the battle for hearts and minds on their turf, you don’t know what they’re up to, you have no counter strategy and you are completely unprepared to take the initiative. And yet you want to lead us?”
Wretchard –
Your problem is one of conceptual models. You believe that most Americans, particularly critical voting blocs, are opposed to socialism, communism, Caudillo-ism, hereditary rule, and Big Men where ever and whenever they can be found.
Let me assure you this is not the case. What you call Leftism is merely women, younger ones, expressing their natural desire for a strong man, a Caudillo, a King, a Prince, a hereditary ruler. It’s both “reactionary” in that it harkens back to models familiar to the Babylonians and Pharaohs, and “progressive” in that it adopts new Green religious nonsense and trans-national globalism or “the new Priesthood.”
Nevertheless, if ALL of Latin America were ruled by Castroites with an iron fist and with brutal Chavismo authoritarian rule, rest assured most younger, single women in the US would respond quite favorably.
And those are the consumers who hold the power, who’s views the media and advertisers cater to, who form the critical voting blocs whose good opinion must be under the current model always taken into consideration. Republicans know most women want Caudillos, which is why they make no move.
You believe that the Left is some sort of replicating message. I maintain that the evidence overwhelmingly suggests rather that women, absent dependence on husbands earning power and interests, move quickly to Caudillo-ism in whatever Leftist form they can find it. There’s certainly a lot more evidence (exit polls, social science research, demography) for that than self-replicating messages. Which in turn if this is true, makes your strategy as useless as the Maginot Line, and in fact dangerous since it does not address the core problem: Women want a Caudillo, and hate traditional America. [This is not anything not familiar to students of late Rome, Greece, Babylonia, and the Third Republic.]
What is needed to counter female power (a feature of hard-leftism in all nations of the West) are the following principles:
*FEAR.
*RUINATION.
*STRATEGIC DESTRUCTION.
First, FEAR. Politicians and media people must FEAR crossing the core interests of the base, that is doing things that conflict with the fundamental values or absolute requirements of the working and middle classes of the country, absent of course SWPL yuppies and women.
Second, RUINATION. Careers of those who cross the line must be ended, particularly of the opposing Party. But also media people. It would good for the nation and for politics, for example, to make an example of David Letterman or Katie Couric, with swarming attacks on their personalities, dishing out whatever dirt, scandal, ugliness, or other things attached to them or their families (let’s call this the Palin standard) to drive them from public life. At the same time, it’s vital to collect scalps from Obama. For example, it’s highly likely that someone is on Zelaya’s or Chavez’s payroll and vocal defenders. They should be publicized and private lawsuits filed, ethics charges made, the like. With again efforts to dig up every bit of human failing certain to be attached to them, their families, and sponsors, backers, campaign contributors, and mentors.
Ruination is the key to fear.
Finally, STRATEGIC DESTRUCTION. Institutions should be destroyed, that serve the interests of the political opposition. Such as the NYT. Or Washington Post. Boycott efforts aimed as sponsors/advertisers, pressure on regulators in the Republican party to create unfavorable, punishing regulations. Pressure on Republican AGs or other law enforcement officials to start investigation into corruption and other things they’ll be sure to find, human nature what it is.
In short, demographics (women are hard left, fans of people like Chavez, there is no denying it anymore) are against those who would rather not the US resemble Vichy France. The only way to fight against that is through total political/cultural/economic fear. Fear of boycotts, of the Alinsky tactics used on Palin and Carrie Prejean and Joe the Plumber turned on the initial users. In other words, the response to the Blitz which was the Allied Bombing campaign over Germany. If nothing else, it drew the Luftwaffe in leaving Normandy uncovered. With emphasis on destroying the NYT, Washington Post, NPR, PBS, and the various people like Letterman or Tina Fey.
Re CAIR: Pretty much most women (about 75% at least) would support CAIR unreservedly. Because CAIR is the enemy of their enemy: Ordinary Straight White Men. Women are hard leftist not because of indoctrination but because of pure self-interest. They can only have tragically hip jobs saving the planet and status mongering if the Straight White guy is both punished and a good bit of his resources and opportunities transfered to them and their allies. This is why the BNP, rather odious socialists, chose to peel off women by offering “a better deal” or pride of place at the head of the table wrt National Health. Offering a Socialism without power sharing with Muslims. Given demographics reality, this is the only alternative to the fear/ruination/destruction methods (note I am talking only the same thing that Left does — boycotts, investigations, regulation, etc.) Otherwise we get socialism but with a Pinochet face instead of a Chavez one.
Sad fact: what drives all this politics, from the pass CAIR gets, to Zelaya’s support in the US, is that women have radically different interests than men. Not all women, and not all men, but enough on average to make this a huge difference between Genders. No Gramscian conspiracy, no marxist memes, not indoctrination needed. Just fundamental human nature.
Watch any Disney film with princesses. That’s basically the Left. And who it appeals to.
I think the conversation has strayed a bit from where I think it needs to focus, so you all stand by whilst I regal you with another one of my favorite—-and hopefully astute—-
theories.
Spain ran its colonies on a four-part racial classification system.
Peninsulares (Insulares); Those of “pure” Spanish blood and born in Spain.
Criollos: those of “pure” Spanish blood but born in the colonies.
Mestizos: Those of mixed race.
Indios: Those who were there when the Spaniards arrrived.
And all distribution of wealth was to be according to this racial pecking order. No exceptions allowed and the whole nine yards given theological justification.
Result was a prevailing culture which held that it was better not to have enough to go around rather than have anybody get something out of turn.
This history of Latin America (and the Philippines too????) has largely been a bunch of hassles over who was going to get in front of the line and who was going to go to the rear and get leftovers, if any. The skin tones and racial classifications got jumbled around but the underlying assumptions of distribution remained unchallenged until
very recent decades.
AS Latin America has moved away from the notion of politically controlled distribution,
greater prosperity has resulted and more republican forms of government have emerged.
And there has been a lot less envy of the US
as a result.
All well and good and largely to the liking of the populaces concerned. BUT, everywhere you go there are a certain number of reactionaries who are appalled, I tell you, appalled at how their inferiors can earn money and buy things without without getting permission from them the (self) annointed.
The right end of the political spectrum has embraced the free market as close to universally as is possible. Therefore the reactionary Luddites are no longer the traditional caudillo. They are all on the far left because there is nowhere else they can go. Zelaya, Morales, Chavez, the Castros,
many PRI members in Mexico and ALL of its schismatic offshoot fit this profile. They literally create economic dysfunction/hardship
in order to gain adherents who will follow their dictates to impoverish those gringos
who are the worst ursurpers of all. (That is us folks.)
And they find some willing allies this side of the Rio Bravo. A discussion of who these are and why will have to be addressed later.
I cannot do it here without digressing way too far.
So that is the background to Honduras which has been pulling itself up by its bootstraps.
Zelaya could not stop that in his allocated single term of four years. So he attempted to extend his time by an unlawful plebiscite
which was not a recognized means of amending their constitution. The Parliment then excercised its perogatives in such matters and was upheld by the courts. The military then followed its assigned duties.
In short, the Honduran military do not stage a coup, they prevented one.
The Obama administration condemns said military not in spite of their coup prevention
but because of it. (And the Obamaroids are
joined by others. Some join out of ignorance,
and some out of evil.)
The Hondos have replied with a shell and a rousing Rebel Yell. I wish them well and their enemies pure hell.
“makes your strategy as useless as the Maginot Line, Vichy France”
OK, whiskey only read only one book where it is said with brand moult disney cartoons
Maginot line wasn’t unuseful, Germans tanks passed through Belgian instead of Alsace Lorraine
Eric Margolis,As a former instructor of military history and lover of history, let me address four of these myths that are particularly annoying and misleading:
First, France’s army did not simply surrender or run away in 1940, as (some)ignorant American Know-Nothing conservatives claim
The German Blitz that smote France on May-June, 1940, scattering its armies like leaves before a storm, was a historical revolution in warfare. Blitzkrieg combined rapidly-moving armor and mobile infantry, precision dive bombing, flexible logistical support, and new high technologies in C3 – command, control and communications. In 1940, Germany led the world in technology: 75% of all technical books were then written in German.
Britain’s well-trained expeditionary force in France was beaten just as quickly and thoroughly as the French, and saved itself only by abandoning its French allies and fleeing across the Channel.
No army in the world at that time could have withstood Germany’s blitzkrieg, planned by the brilliant Erich von Manstein, and led by the audacious Heinz
From the BBC
Nine Clerics speak out against the experts ruling.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8134904.stm
Gutsy play.
re #7
Wretchard’s analogy between Leftism and parasitism opens many avenues that should be explored for their practical utility. Being short of time at the moment, I can only point out that in evolutionary epidemiology the virulence of the parasite evolves in proportion to its ease of transmission. Water-borne (=easily transmitted) diseases like cholera and typhoid are generally more virulent than insect-transmitted (=transmission less likely) diseases like malaria and West Nile. This correlation stems from the fact that more difficult transmission naturally selects against the more virulent genotypes that kill their hosts prior to transmission.
Perhaps conservatives would replicate this situation if they simply acquiesced to every leftist demand. Let leftist policies kill the host society, as long as the conservatives remain sufficiently well-armed to reconstitute civilization later. Would that make more sense than fighting a multitude of small battles to mitigate every leftist proposal and, in doing so, reducing the shock value of the host’s death upon a populace which has a limited attention span??
36. ridgerunner:
Perhaps conservatives would replicate this situation if they simply acquiesced to every leftist demand. Let leftist policies kill the host society, as long as the conservatives remain sufficiently well-armed to reconstitute civilization later. Would that make more sense than fighting a multitude of small battles to mitigate every leftist proposal and, in doing so, reducing the shock value of the host’s death upon a populace which has a limited attention span??
What you propose is to re-create the American experiment in a leadership vacuum. Conservatives must contest every inch of ground in order to establish themselves in the minds of a majority of the people as “those guys who had the ideas we hated but turned out to be right after all.” Without establishing the right to lead a priori the task of reconstituting the previous social order in an environment of swirling chaos will prove at best much more difficult and maybe impossible. Now is the time for conservatives to establish their street cred as the guys who saw it coming and called it right.
In Academy, and the Bureaucracy, one largely government funded the other totally government funded, there has long been no equal protection for the rights of conservatives and the religious. It’s high time for a new Civil Rights Act to protect the political and religious beliefs of those working and dealing with those institutions.
Academy, the Bureaucracy, the Unions and the Media comprise the center of gravity of power for the Left. At a minimum, leftists have gained tremendous power through the unconstitutional use of coercion and intimidation to enforce their will within those institutions. As a result , these institutions have become “leftist only” institutions. It is no wonder that everywhere one turns there is some coercive leftist edict being rammed down the public’s throat. And much of this activity is financed with taxpayer dollars.
Only when conservatives and Republicans stand up and fight for our constitutional rights will we ever get our country back.
MARIE CLAUDE: I’m sorry that another American counterpart has once again drummed up the ‘ole Maginot Line as a means of berating the French. Here’s my take: no “line” anywhere in the world would have stopped the Nazi war machine. No nation was prepared for the advanced tactics of the mechanised warfare that the Germans introduced in 1939.
24. Thrasymachus:
Obama is not Carter, he is a lot worse.
~~~~~~~
Which is why everytime someone pipes up with “we survived Carter” (we’re dealing with ME islamofacist terrorism today *because* of his incompetence – so the world does have permanent damage from the guy), I think they’re naive.
the emperor (think Palpitine from SW) is far, far, far worse than cheshire jimmah, and the MSM -that band of boot-licking synchophants – is totally covering-up his budding tyranny. (earth to Helen, the admin treats you like a puppet because you ACT like a puppet!) Carter had more obsticals to his idiot policies.
While Carter was a slimy idiot, there was a lot of “he’s just plain stupid” in his actions. Obama knows what he wants – the destruction of the US, and his own installation as king of the world (oh, and the paaaaaartaaay’s), and that’s what he’s working towards with none of the obstacles jimmah had.
27 Alexis:
People with connections to large corporations could ask candy and soda manufacturers to switch from using high fructose corn syrup to using Honduran sugar instead.
~~~~
Archer Daniels Midland (major corn producers) would have something to say about that – why do you think manufacturers started using High Fructose Corn syrup in the first place? good ‘ole ADM and their behind-the-scenes manipulations.
Mongoose (5) you have it exactly right. It is indeed time to fight fire with fire.
Along with getting conservative “first responders,” the Republican party, or conservatives in general, also need to learn how to steal elections. What just happened between Coleman and Franken is disgusting in the extreme, but we’re just sitting back and taking it. Aside from the moral outrage we should all be deluging editorial boards with, we should also demand Republican Senators put a hold on ALL nominations — just bring the nomination process to a complete halt in the face of a phony super majority.
Ked5 @ 41#: I rather like the term “syncophant”. They don’t just kiss ass, they do it in time with their host. F
@1. El Jefe Maximo:
“Are the Republicans sleeping, or waiting on events?
The American Republican party mentality, mindset and modus operandi deeply rooted in the Classical Period of this nation when politician wore wigs, and the army marched in colorful-clad uniforms. They are Gentlemen like, polite and unoffensive…no match to the Bolshevik Left which was trained to murder 100 million and enslave many more without the slightest compunction.
No Republican would dare to describe the smell of sulfur that follows The Messiah wherever he goes – only Chavez permitted to say so for Bush and applauded.
A Republican says “macaca” and his carrier is over. (What the hell is macaca?)
-Got it my friend?
The wind of change – not the Kenyan Bolshevik kind – that begun to spread in Europe by the ascent of the patriotic parties which swept away the PC. Multicult. Socialist in many countries – has not arrived to America yet. This country must first undergo Bolshevik re-education as Mr. Bronstein (a.k.a. Trocky) ordered and Mr. Schwartz (a.k.a. Soros) financed to develop the proper antidote.
All that in the distant future.
I think you’re giving the Chicago gang too much credit. They may be a lot more cynical than Carter, but I also think that they believe their own hype. Teh One is such a narcissist, I think he really does believe that rainbows and unicorns are just around the corner. I’m sure that they’re as confident that the economy is going to start galloping in a few months as Hilter was confident that Russia was going to be a pushover.
Their rude awakening is still ahead of them. They’re not yet aware that they’ve already screwed the pooch. The next couple of years are going to be interesting to watch, as reality slowly dawns on them.
The Left has completed its long march through all American institutions and are now in control but will kill the patient. Obama has shown his hand in Honduras, what he and his worshipers intend for us.
27 Alexis
You have too muh faith in the “fair traders”; that is just another leftish meme. If you raise the issue of Honduras, they will shift course as readily as did Western communists at the time of the Hitler-Stalin Pact. “Whatever is left is always right” by definition, because it is left.
‘No nation was prepared for the advanced tactics of the mechanised warfare that the Germans introduced in 1939.’
Well that Operation Barbarossa didn’t go so well.
44. F:
Let me refresh memories. As nauseating as was the Coleman fiasco, it had precedents as far back as 1994, when Bob Dornan of California was robbed of his election by a campaign of bussing in illegal aliens to vote. He wanted to contest the election, but the “manered conservatives” cisliked his brash style and were glad dto be rid of the embarrassment. There may have been similar efforts during 1996, but Bobdole’s weakness made it unclear. In 2000 this meme was the essence of the Florida Fiasco, which was narrowly rolled back because Bush wanted the job. Subsequently, the Demos have tried it in numeous state elections, and have learned the principle “steal big, steal early”. And in every case, except Bush 2000, the GOP has played the clueless mug, submitting gracefully. How are our electinns any more meaningful than those of the old USSR? A tame token opposition is allowed so long as they do not oppose.
Raymond: I think James is rather missing the point about the Maginot Line.
And let us not forget the Battle of the Bulge, for really the advanced used the same tactics and a similar order of battle.
34. Marie Claude:
This is only partly right. Machine for machine, the French and British tanks were superior to the majority of the German tanks. And an obscure French Colonel named deGaulle was another advocate of Blitzkrieg. The Red Army, dominated by the Tukhachevskii circle until purged by Stalin, were also masters of mobile war theory. The first parachute units were deployed by the Reds in Central Asia in the early 1930s, and the concept was passed along to the Germans at Lipetsk. Likewise with many techniques of close air support, used against the italians in Spain, but promptly forgotten in the wake of the Purges.
Rurik: Just so. People seem to forget this. There were elections in the USSR. They were completely meaningless, but they held them, and just a regularly as we do.
This is a key problem: The American Left has managed to completely obscure how the Soviets came to power and maintained that power. They did it exactly as the Democrats are going about it now. The average American today would be surprised to find that the exact same slogans and tactics where used by the Bolsheviks, Maoist, et al. as far back as 100 years ago. They have never really changed, they have just adapted to new technology and burrowed further and further into the key institutions of our world. This is the bitter fruit of the NEA and the co-opting of the educational apparatus by Marxists.
I constantly run into this issue with folks under 50 or so. It is nearly impossible for them to grasp how they are being manipulated or for them to extrapolate from the political and economic history of the last 200 years just where this all will most likely lead. The bitter truth is that it is difficult for them to grasp that they can be manipulated or just what is at stake.
I would guess if there cannot be a radical groundswell in the next year and a half then we will not have an honest election for quite some time, perhaps never again. Imagine what they can do when they sit in power over the control of that election; Imagine what the electioneering mischief that they can get up too with trillions of dollars.
It is absurd that they have gotten this far. Minnesotans should be outraged about that election. I do not hear any outcry from that state. The Coleman affair will quite embolden them next time around. We will see scores of cases like this in 2010.
Then comes this via Dr. Sanity and Neo Neocon: http://www.end22.com/. They have a six month jump already, probably be two years before the conservatives wake up to the fact that this is even going on. My money says that the One will not waste the crisis he is creating. At some point a crisis of such proportions will appear (whether directly created or manufactured only in the seeming) that will necessitate the imposition of martial law and the suspension of civil liberties as well as scheduled elections.
When that happens, what next? What’s the plan to beat the coup? Grab you guns and take to the streets! And go after what, exactly? Obviously to restore the Constitution, but how?
You can bet that the right of the people to assemble will be limited at best. If you think you’ll move towards some kind of rendez-vous point (what point?) unmolested think again. The police and the National Guard will be out in force to contain the population. They must be persuaded to either stand aside or join. Then on to the command and control centers and try to take those. Bear in mind that in the event of a coup it is precisely the police and National Guard who stand the most to gain as the new regime will require lots of police power. Ideally it will be done peaceably, but that is by no means guaranteed.
So now you have the local command center. Now what? Combine with other local command centers? Who can you trust? Do you know any of those people? How do you proceed?
I confess it beats me. Any suggestions?
46. Strawman:
I think you’re giving the Chicago gang too much credit. They may be a lot more cynical than Carter, but I also think that they believe their own hype. Teh One is such a narcissist, I think he really does believe that rainbows and unicorns are just around the corner.
Their rude awakening is still ahead of them.
~~~~
I think many of the chicagoan’s hangers on believe their own hype, and even the *one* (cough, cough, gasp, sputter) believe’s he has a divine mandate, but I also believe he is *deliberately* doing things to sabotage this country. He hates America, he think’s everyone in every other country hates America (then why do we have such an illigeal alien problem? you’d think if every non-American hated America they would stay away), he wants America to be at the same level as every other country (and whitey will be put in his proper place) – so the world will be “one”, and he can be their king.
That rude awakening can’t come fast enough for me. Reality has a way of biting – with luck, theirs will be a rabid pitbull.
Either Chavez has something on Obama that is so powerful, or Obama simply does not want a repeat
of, “out with Allende, in with Pinochet”.
I’d lean towards the latter, but I can see both factors at play.
55. ked5
I think many of the chicagoan’s hangers on believe their own hype, and even the *one* (cough, cough, gasp, sputter) believe’s he has a divine mandate, but I also believe he is *deliberately* doing things to sabotage this country.
Looks that way.
he wants America to be at the same level as every other country (and whitey will be put in his proper place) – so the world will be “one”, and he can be their king.
I believe only the last statement is true. Putting America on the same level as every other country and settling whitey’s hash are so much baloney, but he does want to be king. His ascent to ultimate and enduring power will come during the period of “normalization” following the crisis. He’s cooking up the crisis now, and laying the foundation for a new and improved normalization to follow.
From Telesur:
(teleSUR, English: The New Television Station of the South) is a pan-Latin American terrestrial and satellite television network)
“Canciller de facto: Obama es un negrito que no sabe nada de nada
= De facto Foreign Minister: Obama is a black who does not know anything at all.
More in Spanish at the link:
http://www.telesurtv.net/solotexto/nota/index.php?ckl=53477-NN
#7 Wretchard,
The problem is the Right or Conservatives don’t really have a set of doctrinaire talking points to orgainize around, as does the left. I suppose you could call the right the “Appreciators of Freedom and Liberty” but then you have to be careful not to fall into the Sean Hannity Syndrome (Yes, you are a great appreciator of freedom and liberty and you are a great American, my friend); the problem with the Appreciators of Freedom and Liberty party is that they take their identiy from action and achievment and not from power politics. You show your appreciation of Freedom not by memorizing Trotsky’s or Mao’s favorite talking points but by doing things that your freedom enables you to do: start a family, a business, take a risk in life or love. Contrast with the left: the message is always negative, it sides with nature against man, it belittles man at every step. This is the parasitic nature that you describe about the message of the left. It feeds a large negative worm coiled in the heart of things. Just listen to any Public Radio program any day of the week; its al negative all the time. I’ve often joked that the right could reconstitute itself by just enjoying life a bit….
Marie Claude, et al: I wouldn’t put too much faith in the Margolis pronouncements. Having read his commentary elsewehre over the past several years, I can only conclude that he wishes America failure in order to prove his theories correct.
HOWEVER: The fact remains that the Maginot Line jolly well worked. Like the defensive front line in (American) football, it was there to stop them up the middle and it did.
The French problem was that having obtained
a great “front four” they thought they could dispense with linebackers, cornerbacks and safeties. They paid a terrible price for that omission.
PS: To say that the Brits “abandoned” France is to say that England had another choice by the time they had to do Dunkirk. They did not.
PPS: The “Vichy French” had no relation to the Maginot Line whatsoever. He who made that comment knows a bit about being snarky but none too much about the sequence of historical events.
FWIW: The soldiers of Vichy France were hardly an asset to the Third Reich. The best minds of that era, (Ike, Churchill, LeClerc,
Patton, and Rommel all knew this and played things accordingly.)
a great “front four”
Mongoose:
We are on the same channel – both your response #53, and your other comments. I understand because I have taught Russian History, and also dwelt in Minnesota. I have also studied the great dissidents. My own strategy is resist individually while awaiting any possible mass movement. I am in what is called “internal emigration”, and will resist and harass at every turn; a bad attitude goes a long way. I sense a number of kindred spirits here, including a friend who led me here, and I cultivate other connections, while continuing to study and learn here.
Regarding the discussion about the nature and future of BC, I would invoke the example of the Nineteenth Century Russian “Circles”, informal and formal groups which conducted discussion and publication, spawning some of their great thinkers such as Dostoevsky, and the Vekhi Authors, but leavened with the samizdat experience of dissidents such as Bukovsky, Solzhenitsyn, and Amalrik. Even in this time of troubles, we can draw inspiration from the dissidenty; they resisted for years, even when they had no reason to hope. Like Chambers they were willing to choose “the losing side of History”, but eventually won. Eventually, eventually, so shall you.
Like Iran, the fog of war is so thick that nobody knows exactly what is happening. As Zeller demonstrated, The Political Class and the Media have their own agendas, which they are pushing like mad.
The MSM likes Chevez and on the average would enjoy a Chevez Jr. entering the stage. The Usurper, who is the dominant political figure in America, has to support Zelaya since he knows that he will be in the same boat within the next 20 months.
I read on PJM that Zelaya had been ordered by the local Supreme Court to resign the Presidency and refused. Sort of like the Usurper being impeached and refusing to go.
So technically, this isn’t a coup, it is the Military acting uinder the lawful orders of the national Legal System’s higest authority.
I havn’t been able to cross reference that statement yet.
Zeller politics. Everybody is spinning like mad in an attempt to sway Public opinion to their side.
I am including the new media also. Every blogger has their own axe to grind. POV is King.
It will be another century before the Historians get it all sorted out. That’s if enough data bases and records survive Armageddon to allow them a complete picture.
About the battle of Dunkeerke, a new book has beeen lately edited
http://www.cherche-midi.com/theme/detail.php?ean13=9782749106441
you should get your edition house to get its rights
This the first serious history book about this “not well known” beginning (or the end) of the blitz krieg against us.
Had we had a Clemenceau (the WW1 great warrior in chief), and not a Paul Reynaud (advocate) in lieu of our government chief, armistice wouln’t have been signed.
This is an exemple that that in difficult times, warriors have always assumed their responsabilities.
and yes, our tanks were numerous, but blocked around the Maginot line, besides, our military hadn’t the experience of working with planes tanks and infantry al together ; still they were working in small compagnies, ineffective with the coalition of the german means
En mai-juin 1940, plus de 100 000 hommes se sont fait tuer sur place pour défendre la France et l’Angleterre, dont ils ont sauvé le corps expéditionnaire à Dunkerque. Ce livre est leur histoire. Au cours des 47 jours de la bataille, à maintes reprises, en Ardennes, Argonne, Flandre, Picardie, Normandie (Saint-Valéry-en-Caux), à Dunkerque, et devant Lyon, la proportion de soldats français tués en résistant à l’invasion a atteint 90 % des effectifs engagés.
Les Allemands ont eu par jour plus de 2 000 soldats mis hors de combat, dont une moitié de tués.
Nos pères et grands-pères se sont aussi bien battus que les Américains quatre ans plus tard à Omaha Beach.
En 1940, nos soldats voulaient poursuivre les hostilités. Jamais le peuple français n’a appelé Pétain au pouvoir. C’est un coup d’État, avec faux et usage de faux, qui a permis aux généraux français antirépublicains de livrer nos soldats à l’ennemi, de les menacer du conseil de guerre s’ils continuaient à se battre. Ce sont nos généraux, parfaitement incompétents et dépassés, qui ont rompu avec l’Angleterre et placé notre pays sous la tutelle nazie.
(google translation) :
In May-June 1940, more than 100 000 men were killed on the spot to defend France and England, they saved the Expeditionary Force at Dunkirk. This book is their story. During the 47 days of the battle, repeatedly, in the Ardennes, Argonne, Flanders, Picardy, Normandy (Saint-Valéry-en-Caux) in Dunkirk and at Lyon, the proportion of french soldiers killed resisting l invasion has reached 90% of the workforce engaged.
The Germans were by more than 2 000 soldiers who are hors de combat, half dead.
Our fathers and grandfathers were both beaten the Americans four years later to Omaha Beach.
In 1940, our soldiers wanted to continue hostilities. Not the people french Pétain was called to power. It is a coup, with forgery and forgery, which has allowed the generals french antirépublicains to deliver our troops at the enemy, the threat of court martial if they continued to fight. These are our general perfectly incompetent and outdated, which broke with England and placed our country under Nazi supervision.
To 35. Marie Claude
Your ignorance of WW2 is impressive lay off the revisionist history.
France should have WTF pwned germany in ww2 without any trouble BY THEM FRICKING THEMSELVES. Their is no debate on this matter. They lost because they surrendered period. French and brit tanks were not only far better then their axis counter parts but far more common.
France lose because it
1. Refused to attack germany.
2. Had insanely cowardly socialist leaders who deep down loved the hitler cock(aka ppl like obama).
3. Surrendered even though THEY WERE WINNING. Germany was losing almost 1,000 more men per day then france.
4. Totally incompetent leadership of the french.
5. The british were complete cowards as well.
No matter how you cut it france should have bitch slap germany all over the place during ww2… they lost because of their insanely cowardly government and their peacenik “principles”.
Roboteck master you used to give us a better sight of your analyse competences, I must say, in other domains, except when it to comes to France, where you exactly fulfill the description of Eric Margolis “as ignorant American Know-Nothing conservatives LMAO
Besides, I AM not telling stories, (it’s in JP Richardot’s book and in a few movies), this is what history books say, of course, not in the Brits’ ones you read, Brits are great (and sometime genius) to create their own legend, Shakespeare gave us a few exemples of that
To 66. Marie Claude
I couldn’t care less about what books you’ve read or even what they say. I study ww2 history for fun and know a huge amount of both the military and politics better then most “authors” recapping history from other books or “approved” sources.
France should have easily won period… the fact that it and the brits lost was because they refused to fight plain and simple. They were cowardly most of all the leadership. You seem to confuse the soldiers on the ground fighting it out with the army and leadership as a whole.
Just to show you how much of a huge gap their was in tank strength alone here is the order of battle.
Name Produced 5/10/1940 6/26/1940 Speed Main Gun
Panzerkampfwagen I 1077 643 37 kph 7.92mm MG-34
Panzerbefehlswagen I 244 148 39 kph 7.92mm MG-34
Panzerkampfwagen II 1092 880 40 kph 20mm Kw.K. 30
Panzerkampfwagen III 381 349 40 kph 37mm Kw.K. 36
Panzerkampfwagen 35(t) 143 128 35 kph 37mm Kw.K. 38(t) A7
Panzerkampfwagen 38(t) 238 207 42 kph 37mm Kw.K. 38(t) A7
Panzerkampfwagen IV 290 281 40 kph 75mm Kw.K. 37
Panzerjaeger I 132 35 kph 47mm Pak 36(t)
StuG.III 30 (+) 40 kph 75mm Kw.K. 37
Sd.Kfz.221 339 90 kph 7.92mm MG-34
Sd.Kfz.222 500 (+) 85 kph 20mm Kw.K. 30
Sd.Kfz.231 (6 rad) 21 75 kph 20mm Kw.K. 30
Sd.Kfz.232 (6 rad) 102 75 kph 20mm Kw.K. 30
Sd.Kfz.263 (6 rad) 28 80 kph 20mm Kw.K. 30
Sd.Kfz.231 (8 rad) 103 90 kph 20mm Kw.K. 30
Sd.Kfz.232 (8 rad) 607 85 kph 20mm Kw.K. 30
Sd.Kfz.263 (8 rad) 88 90 kph 7.92mm MG-34
Sd.Kfz.7/2 22 50 kph 20mm Flakvierling 38
Sd.Kfz.10/4 974 65 kph 20mm FlaK 30
Name Produced 5/10/1940 6/26/1940 Speed Main Gun
FT 17 2850 462 520 8 kph 37mm SA 18
FCM2-C 8 12 kph 75mm
Renault D2 100 45 100 23 kph 47mm
Renault AMR 33 123 259 123 54 kph 7.5mm mle 1931
Renault R35 1601 945 945 19 kph 37mm SA 18
Hotchkiss H35 400 328 328 28 kph 37mm SA 18
Somua S35 430 264 400 40 kph 47mm SA 35
Renault AMC 35 100 100 42 kph 47mm
Renault AMR 35 200 20 200 60 kph 25mm SA-L 1934
Renault B1 bis 403 206 403 28 kph 47mm SA 35 & 75mm
FCM 36 100 90 100 24 kph 37mm SA 18
Hotchkiss H39 1091 474 474 37 kph 37mm SA 38
Renault R40 490 490 20 kph 37mm SA 38
Panhard AMD 178 480 257 480 72 kph 25mm SA-L 1934
Laffy W 15 TCC 70 0 70 48 kph 47mm SA 1937
Name Produced 5/10/1940 6/26/1940 Speed Main Gun
Vickers Mk VI B 1320 208 282 48 kph 7.7mm
Vickers Mk VI C 202 0 60 48 kph 15mm
Cruiser A-9 125 0 24 40 kph 40mm
Cruiser A-10 205 0 31 26 kph 40mm
Cruiser A-13 172 0 95 48 kph 40mm
Matilda MkI A11 139 77 77 13 kph 12.7mm
Matilda MkII A12 2987 23 23 24 kph 40mm
Note the fact that close to 50% of the german tanks are armed with 20mm(or less). 20mm was next to useless vs pretty much any french tank and barely useful against the lightest brit tanks.
Where almost all of the french tanks were armed with short 37mm or better(almost 70%+). French tanks on avg had 2x the armor thickness of their axis counterpart.(axis armor thickness was roughly 30mm on main battle tanks where the french had 45mm+ on light tanks and 60mm on their main tanks)
Note also the number of Renault B1 bis. The Renault B1 bis was the tiger of its day… or more the IS-3 of its day. The thing was godlike and whenever the germans met ONE they often detoured entire DIVISIONS of armor around it because it was so freaking unkillable.
France lost because they rolled over and played dead period. They had months to invade and didn’t… they after being invaded refused to counter attack. They pretty much refused to do anything. The fact that french soldiers even had bullets for the rifles is borderline amazing considering their governments cowardliness.
The french had months(years depending on how you look at it) to prepare for the germans… they basically refused to due so. They refused to get the AA the needed. They refused to study and learn from german battle tactics….which THEY HAD SEEN SINCE THE SPANISH CIVIL WAR. They were only just starting to get their airforce in order by places orders with the US to get better aircraft such as the P-38. Had france kept fighting and the brits deployed their air force to help the french they would have prevent much of the massive air power that the germans used… the problem was through the brits didn’t care and kept almost their whole airforce(most of all their best fighters the spits) on british mainland.
Rurik:
I think one should at least try to subvert leftists and their institutions. One should not leave leftists as the only people practiced in that art. Of course I know that “fair trade” is a leftist idea. I also know that one should take every opportunity to practice subversion upon the Left.
Let’s not underestimate how venal leftist institutions can be. Even leftists need to eat.
“I study ww2 history for fun”
BUT not methodically, you can pick any fact, as you’re not objective, they still be picked for suiting your opinion
I also can align a catalogue of the different arms of the era, that still doesn’t explain the evenment, the strategy of the the present armies
L’Étrange Défaite (from Marc Bloch, that our eminent historian of this site, JFM, holds “as one of the ever best books about France’s fall”) …
Bien que soldats de métiers, les soldats britanniques ont apparemment une conduite désastreuse, de soldats « pillards et paillards ». Ce qui renforce dans la population paysanne, qu’ils méprisent, une anglophobie latente liée à des réminiscences historiques. Ce sentiment est renforcé lorsqu’on s’aperçoit que les Britanniques fuient les premiers et jouent des coudes pour être évacués, faisant sauter des ponts pour couvrir leur retraite sans souci des troupes françaises restées en arrière. « Ils refusaient, assez naturellement, de se laisser englober, corps et biens, dans un désastre dont ils ne se jugeaient pas responsables ». Les Britanniques, de leur côté, jugent sans indulgence (« notre prestige avait vécu et on ne nous le cacha guère ») les insuffisances de l’armée française, qui mène une propagande anglophobe pour cacher ses propres échecs.
The Strange defeat … Although professional soldiers, British soldiers apparently disastrous conduct of soldiers “and looters paillard. This strengthens the peasant population, which they despise, a latent Anglophobe linked to historical reminiscences. This feeling is reinforced when one realizes that the British fleeing the first play and elbows to be discharged, blowing up bridges to cover their retirement without regard to the French troops remained behind. “They refused, quite naturally, to leave cover, body and property in a disaster which they are not considered responsible.” The British, for their part, feel free indulgence ( “our prestige had lived on and we do not tell”) the shortcomings of the French army, which is conducting a propaganda Anglophobe to hide its own failures.
Robotech…
Principle French failures were in her non-competitive air force. Having spent a lot of money on new designs, France never produced enough first class fighters to defend her armies.
The other critical failure was in communications technology, tactical and strategic. Guderian trumped all other armored formations by insisting on first rate radio gear for every tank. By comparison all other armies were installing radios only in command tanks.
The combination of air supremacy and flexible communications made the Panzer Corps a war winning weapon.
BTW after the campaign the Germans attacked the Maginot Line — un-occupied, of course — and determined that likely casualties would have been prohibitive.
On the other hand, the French figured out too late that they screwed up on the engineering: critical forts were uninhabitable. The ventilation, drainage and mold control were so grossly miss-handled that the positions were abandoned within months of their completion. Naturally this little error was kept a state secret.
That France did not advance upon the denuded German western positions in 1939 is a stain on her honor that can never be sponged clean. She let down her ally and herself. The Ruhr was there for the taking.
“The Ruhr was there for the taking.”
they did, but with no communications, not decisional skill too, they returned to their defensive positions
one of your Army HISTORIANS explains it here :
http://www.historynet.com/operation-saar-a-lost-opportunity-september-99-world-war-ii-feature.htm
68. Alexis:
Now how could I disagree with an argument like that? Hell, its a personal hobby. But I do not count on it until the results are in.
To 69. Marie Claude
Ummm nothing you have posted counters my views in fact that only show they are correct. Also the writer is as very poorly informed. This
“The Char B 1 bis had its radiator vents on the side, at a point where a hit from small-caliber anti-tank shot could put the tank out of action.”
is a classic myth about the char b1. their was no weak point there. The armor on the slats for the radiator was in fact stronger in many respects then the side armor on the REST OF THE TANK. The only reason why shooting the that area was considered a “weak point” was because duh it was important to the engine and thus you killed the engine. Its as much of a weak point as killing the driver or any other person in the tank.
To 70. blert
Their is no doubt that the lack of french air power hurt… as I said however france could have easily dealt with axis air power much better if.
1. The brits had deployed their air force in theater.(which would have easily matched german air power)
2. Had they invested in AA guns…..
“The other critical failure was in communications technology, tactical and strategic. Guderian trumped all other armored formations by insisting on first rate radio gear for every tank. By comparison all other armies were installing radios only in command tanks.”
This is a huge history lie… french not only had radios in their tanks THEY HAD TWO WAY RADIOS. Most french battle tanks such as the B1 or S35 had two way radios. Most axis tanks such as the p3/p4/p38(which were the main battle tanks of the germans) only had 1 way radios. This is a classic of ppl who don’t do real research on the tanks of the time.
“BTW after the campaign the Germans attacked the Maginot Line — un-occupied, of course — and determined that likely casualties would have been prohibitive.”
Not true they attacked the maginot line both during the war and after the war because many french soldier either 1. refused to surrender or 2. didn’t believe that their government could be so cowardly to surrender.
robotech master,
your problem is that you focus too much on the material and their technological abilities, then your army would have had not all those problems to fight and or to contain its enemies in Vietnam, Irak, Afghanistan. You forget the human factor, and the huge propaganda machine of the nazy Germany, and its damages on minds, with no avoidable mean to control or to counter it, (yet no satellites of observation, no cell phones…) which remains a model for all times.
To 74. Marie Claude
No I understand the human factor all too well your the one arguing that it doesn’t exist…..and frankly I really have no idea what your arguing any more… everything you posted has agreed with everything I’ve said…. expect that you don’t agree with what I said….
May-be you forgot what you wrote in your #65 post !
ummm once again your arguing everything in what I posted in 65 as correct…. so why are you arguing…?
NON SENSE
Robotech, It’s men that win battles, NOT machines. Machines are the tools they use. If the side with the better machines always wins, what happened in Vietnam, Algeria, and countless places and times in history where men said, “NO More. Here I stand, I can do nothing Else!
Marie, Robotech is correct in that in the winter of ’39, there nothing between France and Berlin except some old men and a few cows. Hitler ran a bluff on the French. It cost them their nation and created a reputation for military incompetence that will last centuries, deserved or not.
As an aside, the Maginot Line was NEVER meant to stop the Germans. It was built to slow them up long enough to mobilize the French Army. That was accomplished. So from a strictly technical POV, the Maginot line worked.
From that same POV, Vietnam was a military success. The purpose of fighting in S. Vietnam was to buy time to shore up the political structures of Malaysia and the Philippines. Since they didn’t go communist, it could be said that Vietnam was a success, or at least the original mission there was. Mission creep led to preventing S. Vietnam from going communist, which was impossible.
“Robotech is correct in that in the winter of ‘39, there nothing between France and Berlin except some old men and a few cows. Hitler ran a bluff on the French. It cost them their nation and created a reputation for military incompetence that will last centuries, deserved or not.”
I didn’t contest that, just his deduction of our supposed cowardise and surrendering, (that the alone Dunkeerke battle anihilated, where our soldiers had no lesson to take from any Anglo-saxon, in the contrary, Brits were safe to escape, I never see that they thank us for that, or written in their legend, or very exceptionally, but rather on american side), justified by this episode, and that that were the leitmotiv of the past decade for bashing us.
Even yourself can’t help it, though you should get your mind back to what was the context, which is well grasped by the american historian of my above link.
umm, if you say Vietnam was a success, then Algeria was a super super success
Leftism in its current state seems to count on quickly-deployable – and catastrophically attention-getting – memes. If you keep yelling lies loudly and often enough they start to become Truth. It is primarily based upon emotion, and not on logic. In other words, it’s very dangerous.
Most of us Clubbers here seem to come from a viewpoint of being very skeptical of anything that is overly-reliant on emotion – and therefore under-reliant on logic. I have to wonder if the insistence on logic has a political strain or not. It shouldn’t, but it appears to have developed such a strain.
Conservatives are, for the most part, loathe to confront emotional (and illogical) agendas by emotional means. Granted, such a methodology is the current paradigm of deseminating information. But it is my heartfelt hope that Leftists will, for lack of a better phrase, snap out of it and realize that their actions have reached beyond pure ideological advocacy.
Will they ever reach a point when the ends justify *any* means, however illogical, emotional and/or harmful? Humanity has a poor record in this respect.
But if I may get emotional for a second: “from my cold dead hands.”
If it were up to BO..that man would change the constitution and stay on for life..why do ya’ll think?? Oh come on, open your eyes!!!
agreed…”from my cold dead hands”.
The analysis of this article seems wanting. Zeyala was removed with the help of his own party and replaced by someone from his own party. How is that riding a tide of resentment against the elites?
Steve/83; how is it not ‘riding a tide of resentment against the elites’? Seriously.
21. dan:
“without US support (counterintelligence), honduras will go down. it’s like a mini-Vietnam we should win; we should probably restart operations against Ortega if we haven’t already. cordon sanitaire may make for a bad strategy against Soviets in Europe, but in Central America it is essential, in the absence of being able to nuke people from orbit.”
Yes, Lord of the Planet, your airs of superiority and disdain are appalling. How’s your militia?
@85. vivo:
Be happy: el negrito (que no sabe nada de nada) your Messiah will transform the whole area into a huge Communist gulag like Cuba: Commie King like Fidel will rule for life and the people will engrave his name into Mayan style stelae akin to Yax K’uk Mo’ also known as Hugo Chavez. The piano legged grinning tramp Hillary and the negrito also known as Messiah will be at hand to assist, just in case.
A Christian Martyr in Iran? [Mark Krikorian]
It looks like Neda Agha-Soltan, the young woman killed during the protests in Iran, may have been a Christian. If true, I’m not sure what, if any implications there might be — some have said, implausibly, that it would undermine the idea that the reformers don’t represent a real challenge to the Islamist ideology, that Mousavi is just another flavor of theocratic tyrant. I think the significance would depend on what kind of Christian she was (if any) — if she was Assyrian, say, and thus a member of a pre-Islamic Christian community, then it probably doesn’t mean much. But if she was from a Muslim ethnic group but converted to Christianity, then she might well represent the early stages of the unraveling of Islam itself in Iran.
07/07 05:03 PM
87. Thomas, gringuito:
I hope that el negrito gringo knows what he’s doing. Hondurans shouldn’t be helped. Let them resolve their internal problems.
But the greedy oligarchy will push their connections and feed the arm dealers and mercenaries to stay in power. If this pisses Chavez off, you are going to have a few nightmares . . . I’m just saying.