Bad manners
Gail Collins of the NYT makes what she thinks is is a clever proposal: she wants President Bush and Dick Cheney to resign so that Barack Obama can take over right away. The Gateway Pundit has video of Chris Matthews proposing essentially the same thing.
Thanksgiving is next week, and President Bush could make it a really special holiday by resigning. Seriously. We have an economy that’s crashing and a vacuum at the top. Bush — who is currently on a trip to Peru to meet with Asian leaders who no longer care what he thinks — hasn’t got the clout, or possibly even the energy, to do anything useful. His most recent contribution to resolving the fiscal crisis was lecturing representatives of the world’s most important economies on the glories of free-market capitalism.
Putting Barack Obama in charge immediately isn’t impossible. Dick Cheney, obviously, would have to quit as well as Bush. In fact, just to be on the safe side, the vice president ought to turn in his resignation first. (We’re desperate, but not crazy.) Then House Speaker Nancy Pelosi would become president until Jan. 20. Obviously, she’d defer to her party’s incoming chief executive, and Barack Obama could begin governing.
Since Barack Obama himself has made no such demand and has the good sense not to make it, why should anyone care about the likes of Collins and Matthews? One reason is that they are engaged in a very public display of their bad manners and bad manners are contagious. Manners play an important part in civic life. Why do we stand in line at a buffet and not rush to the front if we can get away with it? Why do we observe rope barriers when it would be easy to duck under it or jump over them? Because it isn’t the done thing. The Collins and Matthews proposal to install Obama in office right away if they could get away with it is in many ways like shouting that in a cafeteria queue that it would be better to clamber over the steam tables because you’re in a hurry to eat. JJ McNab observed that most things happen through voluntary compliance.
You’re in your car approaching an intersection, and the traffic light is red. As you near the intersection, you look both ways and see that if you don’t stop, the approaching cars are far enough away that you’ll make it safely through the intersection. So why do you stop? Because you risk getting an expensive ticket if you don’t and because if there were no traffic laws at all, travel by car would end up impossible in all but the most rural areas. This is an example of voluntary compliance. You’re volunteering to stop at the light, but if you don’t, you’ll be fined by the traffic court and may even lose your license if you try it too often. It’s an honor system that has consequences if you cheat.
In a world with absolutely no manners stanchions, ropes, signs, tapes, would have to be replaced by barbed wire, concrete walls, minefields and other truly impermeable barriers. Until Franklin Roosevelt there was no actual prohibition against a President seeking more than two terms.
Historians point to George Washington’s decision not to seek a third term as evidence that the Founders saw a two-term limit as convention and a bulwark against a monarchy; his Farewell Address, however, suggests that it was because of his age that he did not seek reelection. Thomas Jefferson also contributed to the convention of a two-term limit; in 1807 he wrote, “if some termination to the services of the chief Magistrate be not fixed by the Constitution, or supplied by practice, his office, nominally four years, will in fact become for life.” Jefferson’s immediate successors, James Madison and James Monroe, also adhered to the two-term principle.
One day Barack Obama’s term of office will expire. But it should expire not a day less than than the duration for which he was elected and not a day more. There may be clever ways to get Barack Obama into office sooner than inauguration day, but it is bad manners to ask.
Obama is a cult, like Jonestown. I’ve blogged on this matter. His followers demanding Bush resign is a sign that Obama is not merely seen as the next President but a living God, a Messiah.
Just like Jim Jones. The parallels are obvious.
Let’s hope America is not forced into Revolutionary Suicide.
Perhaps this is a little technical, but Obama hasn’t even been officially elected yet. This does not happen until the Electors meet in their respective states and cast their votes. While their votes are more-or-less a foregone conclusion, they do have the power to elect someone else. If Obama died before they cast their votes, the Electors could select anyone they felt would best lead the country. This was, in fact, the original intent of the Founders.
Most of will not be, Whiskey. Those that are will do it unto themselves.
It is gonna be interesting to see whether or not Collins and Matthews survive their inevitable detoxification.
Notice how they fantasize about how Dubya
even lacks energy and how they project their fantasies onto the actions of leaders of other nations.
They are very ill.
and pathetic
Contrarian; There you go, getting technical again.
I expect nothing else from the left with that call for Obama’s immediate accession.
The whole left despises decorum, the rule of law and especially the US Constitution which thwarts them.
And they are impatient as all the 20th century fascists were.
It’s a sign of the poor state of the media that such puerile calls were not quashed by a decent editor.
Well, it’s an interesting problem. The Electors meet sometime in December if memory serves me right. Say Obama’s plane crashes and he’s dead. Who do the Electors vote for? Can they vote for a dead person? Can a dead person be sworn in on Jan. 20th. They could elect Hillary for example. Can you imagine the lobbying, threats and bribes that would be in play? And the political crisis on top of the economic one?
On the plus side, the main stream media is soooo outed as partisan hacks.
there’s a terrific cut and splice of Tom Brokaw and Charlie Rose talking about “we really don’t know much about Obama”.
some of the spliced in commentary interupt the video feed with mocking type-face displays like “Why didn’t you ask?”,
“Are you saying your reporting is/was incompetent?”,
etc.
it would be hilarious of the point wasn’t substantive.
i was going to pass on posting a link…but here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzMas1bVidw
“it would be hilarious IF the point wasn’t substantive.”
This is actually an OUTSTANDING idea.
With a little twist tho:
http://www.cheatseekingmissiles.com/2008/11/21/gop-revenge/
Actually Contrarian a far more likely scenario is that BHO is doscovered to be INELIGIBLE… and what would happen then???
He still refuses to submit an original birth certificate…
What I wonder is how people like Collins and Matthews get into those kind of positions. Shouldn’t there be some kind of competency level?? Just one of the reasons I will not watch MSNBC and would never subscribe to the NYTimes.
Whiskey, you are right, it is Jonestown behavior and I fear that is becoming normal in our society.
—————————————
By the way, I hope all you rich liberals out there are going to pay a bunch of taxes because Joe Biden said it’s your patriotic duty to do so and I am waiting for my share of the free stuff Obama promised me.
Manners are the symptom of a more powerful cultural imperative. Those cultures predominate which provide survival benefit to its members. When members such as Matthews are conspicuously bad-mannered they imperil the culture of which they are part.
I have enjoyed Wretchard and his commentators for quite a long time. Very seldom do they leave anything to be said.
It is a very valuable service to call out bad manners, for the sake of us all.
If I remember correctly, didn’t the Clinton libs want Billy Boy to extend his eight years?
The liberals have had bad manners for the last eight years, so why would they change now.
Liberals’ and left wingers’s inate boorishness: time and again, Collins and Matthews illustrate liberals’ mindless sense of entitlement and righteousness.
As a side bar – I remember an exchange after the Monica Lewinsky affair erupted on the national scene:
“In such a situation a gentleman like Jefferson would have resigned.”
“Categorically – but Bill Clinton is not a gentleman.”
By the way, can you name any AIG, Bear Sterns or other financial institution leader who, overwhelmed by guilt and disgrace, committed suicide? (Not in 1930-s, but past month?) Maybe we should wait a bit, and check again after the 2008 bonuses will be disbursed.
Collins and Matthews have the same viral infection most of the elitist and academia have, one catches this bug when spending too much time immersed in or rubbing elbows with the euro’s, the rest of the liberals wantonly infect them self’s thru sheer association, manners matter only when they are the aggrieved party, whats new about that?
You guys miss the point. The MSM are the “set up men” for Obama. They say something outlandish and Obama gets to say some lofty thing as to why what they said was wrong. The American public gets to see how presidential Obama is and some who voted against him start to think he isn’t as bad as they thought.
Having useful idiots around is well, useful.
1Cor. 15:33 – “Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.”
Malicious thoughts and slanderous lies toss good manners under the bus.
I am completely and utterly offended by Collins and Matthews, by these comments and other offerings during these past months. I can’t believe I ever gave them a moment’s notice. Why don’t they resign? Now, that’s change I can believe in.
Guess we should put all the libersls on a big boat & send it out to the middle of the ocean. Then pull the plug at the bottom of the boat & tell them to swim! And tell the UN on the same day to leave our shores & the UN building along with them. Maybe then our country will turn back to God.
If you vote for a Christmas package, with pretty wrapping and a frilly bow…and you want to open it on the day after Thanksgiving, this might be the conversation that follows:
“Can we open our present today, c’mon, I wanna, I wanna, I wanna!!!!??!!!”
“No Chrissy, no little Gail, you have to wait like all the other little boys and girls, so please stop your tantrums.”
“You adults are so unfair, someone who is really cool said ‘kill your parents, that’s where it’s really at’ and we think this is what he means. If we can’t have cake and candy for breakfast and find out what’s in our pretty package, then 25 million of you better watch out.”
“Now, now Chrissy and Gail…your day to open your package will be here soon. Throwing yourselves on the floor and threatening to hold your breath until you turn into a completely blue state won’t make it come any faster.”
“Yeah, well we are going to do it anyway. And you can’t stop us. And you better have spent more money on us this year. If you didn’t, we are going into your wallets and taking more, because you are selfish, mean, slothful, and I have never been proud of you. It’s your duty to give us more. I hate you. You invented the measels I got this year and I hope God damns you.”
“Chrissy and Gail, you need a timeout. It’s only a couple of days away now, but your behavior for the last 8 years has been atrocious. Santa has his list and has been checking it twice. You have been palling around with children who have horrible manners and lead you into bad behaviors.”
“You have no proof of that and nobody is going to give you any. Besides, after we open our present tomorrow, we will make sure you never find out, anyway.”
“Well, Chrissy and little Gail, the day has come to open your present. At long last, you get to look inside and see what is there. Do you mind if we watch?”
“Suit yourselves. We don’t care if you are here or not. You’re irrelevant. We can’t wait to open it…wheeeeeee!………hey…..what the…….coal and ice!!??? I thought we weren’t doing coal ever again.”
“Well, it’s clean coal this year and the polar ice cap has been growing, not shrinking, ao there’s plenty to give out.”
“But, but, but…we got this exact same thing last time. This is a ripoff. We were hoping this time for a change to something, we were hoping, we thought it would change…I had a tingle in my leg all year! There is absolutely nothing different at all about this. It is almost identical. What the hell kind of gift is that?”
“It’s the gift of reality, Chrissy and little Gail. It’s the gift of maturity, where puerile tantrums and “acting out” behaviors are not rewarded. It’s the gift of guidance and principles that sustain, not principles of convenience. It’s the gift of manners and respect. It’s the gift of graciousness. It’s the gift of learning to live with life’s disappointments in an adult manner. It’s the gift …. at long last, finally…finally…that teaches you to grow up.”
Speaking of viral infections or other medical issues, Obama never released his medical records (along with his transcripts, work records, and birth certificate) so there is a real possibility that the fitness fanatic could keel over from something like cocaine induced cardiac damage at any time. If he dies before Dec 5th then I believe that the Electors get to choose anyone they want. Presumably Biden and Hillary have a cage match. If he dies after the votes are counted in the presence of the Congress then I believe that Biden will become President and the Senate will select a new Vice President under the 25th Amendment after Inauguration Day. The real interesting case would be if Obama dies after the votes are cast but before they are counted. Then it looks to me that McCain becomes President and Biden becomes Vice President. Presumably McCain would immediately resign after making a speech on Inauguration Day, with the understanding that he gets reappointed to the Senate or gets the VP slot under Biden.
If these people think there is a power vacuum now they’re in for a rude awakening when the vacuous, sloganeering Obamessiah steps up.
His every utterance undelines his ignorance of world affairs and economics. He is going to create two and a half million jobs he announces. How? appoint two and a half million community orgnisers? Or is he going to hite two and a half million slogan chanters?
“Then House Speaker Nancy Pelosi would become president until Jan. 20. Obviously, she’d defer to her party’s incoming chief executive, and Barack Obama could begin governing.
This line by Chrissie “Super Thrill” Matthews gave me a “coffee-through-the-nose moment.” Ummm, errr, uhhh, what might happen if Nancy Pelosi doesn’t think deferring to Obama is so “obvious?” Let’s see: if Bush & Cheney resigned right after Thanksgiving then “President Pelosi” would be in office for nearly 8 weeks. Wouldn’t that give her enough time to make quite a few appointments, issue lots of pardons, and sign a ton of executive orders? Furthermore, correct me if I’m wrong, President Pelosi could also order our troops in Iraq to begin withdrawing immediately. Hey, make no mistake about it: under our Constitution, she’d be every bit as much the “Prez” as any of her predecessors.
If the above is true, then folks like Gail Collins and Chris Matthews are as stupid as they are insane. Under such a scenario, seems to me Obama couldn’t legally do a damn thing and could only stand by helplessly as a President Pelosi, quite constitutionally, created a whole slew of foreign and domestic fait accomplis. Obama then would be confronted with the nasty specter of trying to undo much of Pelosi’s work–and incurring her political wrath–or having his hands tied indefinitely.
Here’s the real question for me: why do Gail Collins and Chris Matthews continue to get paid for their “expert opinions?”
Chris Matthews is a caricature of himself at this point. It’s so easy to find something completely inane that he says daily that it’s like shooting fish in a barrel.
“Bush…….hasn’t got the clout, or possibly even the energy, to do anything useful.”
Excuse my ignorance as a foreigner but isn’t Bush still commander in chief of the US armed forces? If the US is attacked between now and the 20th January wouldn’t President Bush have to decide on the response…a response that could have worldwide repercussions for years to come? Correct me if I’m wrong but that sounds a little like “clout to do something useful” to me…..
Watch out for those clowns on the left – they’ll want to remove the 8-year limitations for that lame duck you have just elected……which is ironic given their panic that Bush was going to do just such a thing. They really love their projection on the left n’est pas?
One estimate over at ‘American Thinker’ had it that due to the Obama induced bear market, we’ve already lost 6 trillion in stock value, and he has not even been inaugerated yet. Obama Proves To Be Stock Market Poison
25th Amendment Section Two
Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress.
If Obama were to die after the Electoral College had voted, but before he was sworn in, one assumes (a big gray area in the Constitution) that Biden would then become President and would then nominate his selection for Vice President (subject to Senate approval).
Barry admits to the use of cocaine. The longer he has for it to clear up the better. Why not postpone the innaguration?
But, it is a logical suggestion. The anti-Americans at the NYT have probably been told by their muslim terrorist masters that another attack may be coming.
The terrorists know that Obama will surrender but is it comes BEFORE Obama takes over, Bush might bomb them back to the stoneage.
So, the NYT people have been ordered to try to get W out off the way or, at least, to distract him.
Is Collins one of those “credentialed” journalists we’ve been hearing about of late?
If so, I want to make a point: when credential-ed authority-figures purposely undermine our republic’s civic institutions and its civil discourse (like Collins has with her comments), they are admitting their opposition to the system that awarded them their credential-ed authority in the first place.
Which means that, essentially, they have negated their credentials, and forfeited their journalistic “authority.” This reduces their real import to that which any other spectator enjoys, and renders their shrill, incontinent reportage “hectoring.”
Problem is, there is no established mechanism for fingering and ejecting the poo-flinging hectors from Journalism’s ranks of paid, credential-ed writers. Sad thing is, without their Journa-cred’s to hide behind, Matthews and Collins wouldn’t be able to acquire the town-square’s attention in the first place.
Get rid of their credential-ing monopoly, and the smarmy system of journalism schools that generates Collin’s paper-authority begins to look like the ape campus at the local zoo.
No wonder Matthews and his colleagues have been polishing their credentials on camera of late.
I read yesterday where somebody(my poor remembery fails me as to who–wasn’t me) said that:
1. Bush should resign now, making Cheney President.
2. Cheney should appoint Rice Vice President.
3. Cheney should resign, making Rice the first Black, Female President.
Has a certain attraction for it entertainment value.
Chris Matthews is the answer to the question, “Why do they hate us?”
Bobal #29 said in effect that this is an Obama bear market. I think thats right. The market started to drop when it became clear he had the nomination. Its a chicken-egg argument about the credit crash and the market crash. What was the precipitating event or condition?
One of the positive effects of having a lifetime to observe the workings of the Office of POTUS is a realization of the incredible power of the office. While I dont subscribe to the theory that the president is responsible for the economic health of the country (except on issues of very broad policy, eg. tax policy, trade policy, and monetary policy), leadership is his primary coin.
Obama will be shocked at his power to move markets. It will take him several months to begin to learn the exquisite sensitivity of those power levers.
Buckle up boys, its gonna be a wild ride.
#34
Suggested by a poster at Little Green Footballs:
895
gmsc
11/22/08 8:31:09 pm 18
How to REALLY piss off the Democrats:
1. Bush resigns now.
2. Dick Cheney is sworn in as president.
3. Dick Cheney appoints Condoleeza Rice as his VP.
4. Dick Cheney resigns as president.
5. Condoleeza Rice, a Republican, is sworn in as the first black U.S. president!
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/31985_The_Window_of_Opportunity/comments/#ctop
Trump!
No he should not resign. He should have been impeached, but the craven Democrats led by Pelosi have allowed Buchenney to continue their nefarious schemes against our Constitution and democracy. Collins is being facetious and of course you are taking her seriously. How smart is that!
Yes, Bush should have been impeached for daring to defend America against our enemies. How uncool is that? Remember after 9/11 when everybody loved us? And then we started fighting back and they hated us again. See, if we could just suffer a 9/11 or two each year, everybody would always love us! Wouldn’t that be great? And then we could on to the important business of controlling the weather, because even though there’s no evidence of any global warming for the last ten years, the important thing is that we feel good about ourselves and we’re doing something to defeat the evil American empire that makes everybody mad at us.
Snicker.
Look, hasn’t Bush done enough damage. He has vacated the office already and given the reigns of the country to Paulson. Loyalty is fine but this guy has been a disaster to the party, the conservative movement, and the country.
We tout he kept us safe but I ask what has been the price. A defunct republican party and socialism ascendant?
Liberty in the balance
Yeah, if you start down that road you just don’t know where it will take you.
It is one thing to elect the man, but it quite another to start to think that he merits special privilege.
MacD says:
We tout he kept us safe but I ask what has been the price. A defunct republican party and socialism ascendant?
programmer questions:
How many cities is the appropriate cost to purchase a non-defunct republican party and keep socialism from being ascendant? I must admit at times, I have a couple cities in mind as “sacrificial lambs”, but I suspect the residents would be at odds with my assessment.
The every action of America’s too damned dumb to know they’re being lied to and/or too damned mean-spirited and/or too damned keen to glom on to the fruits of other men’s lives’ energies and/or too damned evil to care – confirm the FasciSSocialist Psychosis sufferer’s position as our beloved fraternal republic’s and Judeo-Christian/Western/Human Civilization’s most deadly dangerous enemy.
As does the every damned projection of their unifying and driving psychopathology by every last one of their uniformly Goebbelsesque crypto-fascist propagandists, polemicists, lickspittles and shills: Collins and Mathews, Olbermann, Rather, Koppel, the affable Eva Braun and Blitzer et al.
All of whom are collectivist-ly otherwise known as the “democratic” potty’s “base.” (And, it follows, as its low and as its vile.)
America’s gift to once great Britain, its much later to be prime minister, Mr Winston Leonard Spencer Jennie Jerome Churchill observed in 1899, in “The River Wars:
“How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property – either as a child, a wife, or a concubine – must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.
“Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen; all know how to die; but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and was it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science – the science against which it had vainly struggled – the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.”
How interesting, in assessing the threat from the barbarians that — while our long ago subservient to our every enemy “free press” but psychopathologically propagandizes — stalk us still, that Mr Churchill talked of Rome. The Rome of old, that is, that fell to the malignant manipulations of such manifestations of evil as are today’s “Democrats” and as are such of totalitarianism’s toadies and groveling Goebbels’ Academy graduates as Ms Collins and Mr Mathews et al. The Rome that fell, that is, despite that, in 42 BC, Cicero — probably thinking of just such as the likes of Ms Collins and Mr Mathews et al — warned that:
“A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and he carries his banners openly. But the traitor moves among those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the galleys, heard in the very hall of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor—he speaks in the accents familiar to his victims, and wears their face and their garment, and he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation—he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of a city. He infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to be feared.”
Too bad, then; in such Interesting Times as those into which our nation and the very Civilization we have long both vanguarded and have guarded has been thrust; that such of totalitarianism’s typical tools, toadies, and otherwise usefully idiotic clowns as are the subject of this piece — and as are but representative of the intellectually and morally bankrupt mob of mendacious morons that make up the self-styled “mainstream media” — are too damned dumb to know they’re being lied to and/or are too damned mean-spirited and/or are too damned keen to glom on to the fruits of other men’s lives’ energies and/or are too damned evil to have read and/or to have understand either Mr Churchill or Mr Cicero.
And/or, like the shower for whom they shill, are too damned pathologically-crypto-fascistic to care.
Brian Richard Allen
Los Angeles – CalifUBAMAcated 90028
Liberals have been telling themselves since Woodrow Wilson that they are the smart people, when in fact they have always been stupid. Now, after a hundred years of unfettered inanity and destruction, they have come to this.
Even by the prehensile standards of the NY Times this woman is an ignoramus. And like all stupid people who fancy themselves “progressive” she and her ilk will be the first ones on board when the Obama tumbrils begin to roll, asking herself, “How the hell did this happen?”
Perhaps we should wait until Obama produces a legitimate birth certificate which I understand he is required to produce by Dec. 1, 2008. Like that is going to happen!
While Bush has made many mistakes and been way too conciliatory with his enemies on the left, he has fought a valiant fight against the Islamo-fascists. I can’t help thinking of Britain ,post World War II, kicking Churchill to the curb. Thus she began her long slide into irrelevance and bending over for a rabid fundamentalist Islamic Trojan horse. Is that our future with the hipster Wonder Boy at the helm?
That’s all it is, bad manners? How about it’s breathtakingly immature, and UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
“We hate Bush so much, we say screw the constitution, too!”
When Bush is out of office, this nation will well and truly be run by 14 YEAR OLDS.
God help us.
14 year olds is generous….and really an insult to 14 year olds.
There are many weird things about Collins’ proposal, but the weirdest one is the way in which it completely ignores the practical aspects of her suggestion. So Pelosi would be President. Okee dokee.
Would Condi Rice still run State? Paulson Treasury? Would Josh Bolten still be Chief of Staff? Who would be AG? Mukasey, after all, is in uncertain health. Would she appoint a replacement? And who would be VP? We’re not talking about changing out two people; we’re talking about a wholesale change in government.
What her “facetious” (BTW – is there anything in her op-ed that seems the least bit facetious?) suggestion would lead to is 4 weeks of utter chaos, instability, shouting, power grabs, posturing, and, potentially, disaster. And the funny thing is that it would hurt Obama and his incoming administration as well. Thanks, Gail. Great idea.
What is underway is a very difficult thing: a peaceful transition of political authority from one party to another. To call for the current party to simply capitulate is so, well, stupid.
The beclowning continues…
L3
Frankly, when I read Collins’ tripe yesterday, I was incensed. Then after a beer had calmed me down, I thought, “Hey, this is good news. It confirms what most sensible people have thought all along: The New York Times is in a delightful death spiral and writing such as hers and Frank Rich’s and America’s Sophomoric Sweetheart Maureen Dowd along with the economic loonyness of Nobel Laureate Paul Krugman and Just Plain ‘Ol Dumb Bob Hebert is accelerating the happy prospect of financial implosion.”
So let it continue as their ad revenues and stock price head towards Nadaland and their circulation consists only of the upper west side salons.
What once was America’s greatest newspaper has no credibility anymore because there is no critical thinking within its editorial or reporter ranks.
45. Barb:
Perhaps we should wait until Obama produces a legitimate birth certificate which I understand he is required to produce by Dec. 1, 2008. Like that is going to happen!
……….
It might be that Collins & Matthews suggestions are a reflection of the fire on the right. Currently the supreme court at justice Thomas behest is set to consider Donofrio v Wells. My understanding is that there about 16 lawsuits in various states on the matter of obama’s citizenship. This one is a well crafted suit from New Jersey designed to force all the candidates to submit their birth certificates.
According to a thread over at Free Republic:
“The case, having come directly from an appeal to the New Jersey Supreme Court is now before the the United States Supreme Court, “DISTRIBUTED for Conference of December 5, 2008″ before all nine Supreme Court Justices.
I am very concerned that if the United States Supreme Court requests the official records of the case from the NJ Appellate Division, a fraudulent case file – not including all relevant documents – will be forwarded to the SCOTUS and thereby the case now pending might be jeopardized.”
…………………
Donofrio’s web site has been subject of Denial of Service attacks in recent days.
Collins and Mathews are offering their solution to the leading problem for the press: now that BHO has won, what are the Bush haters in the press going to write about? It was a given that they would continue to blame Bush for any problems in the future, but C&M have indeed led the way, finding a way to continue the political campaign after the election.
Perhaps their maneuver also suggests they aren’t all that confidant that things will always be wonderful after “the one” is in office.
Of incivility, public and private:
It may well have been going on longer than this, but I started to notice a type of behavior back in the 1990s: When there’s a lane closure impending on a street or highway, MOST people would join the merged traffic fairly early on, and proceed to wait the extra time it took to get through the congestion. But, there were always at least SEVERAL a**holes who, although they had an opportunity to merge early and wait it out like everyone else, would instead put the pedal to the metal, zoom to the front of the line and cut in.
It occurred to me that even these a**holes would never dare to behave in such boorish fashion in a less anonymous setting … say, a grocery store, where cutting in line can get you multiple dirty looks, a “Hey! Excuse me!” objection from a fellow shopper or even a reprimand and “Sorry, that person was in front of you” from the cashier.
The relative anonymity of the car seemed to embolden crassness that would never be tolerated in face-to-face interactions. (A lesson we see on the Internet every day, nowadays.)
So what are we to make of it when national recognition as a Constitutional Ignoramus and Juvenile First Class is no longer enough to keep a person’s worst, most boorish and inane behavior in check? When a person like Chris Matthews will confidently attach his name and reputation to such ideas as (a) it’s his “job” as a “journalist” to see that Obama succeeds in office, and (b) hey, let’s create a special exception to a 200+-year-old, Constitutionally-governed process for 44 because he’s so … so … special ?
It seems to me that the sheer brazenness of the yahoos (cultural and political) is something that exists only recently in American life. And that that is a very bad sign indeed. See: Giuliani’s “broken window” theory.
Or is my perception mistaken? Has the brazenness always been there and I am just recently starting to see it?
US Constitution
Twentieth Amendment
Section 1. The terms of the President and Vice President shall end at noon on the 20th day of January, and the terms of Senators and Representatives at noon on the 3rd day of January, of the years in which such terms would have ended if this article had not been ratified; and the terms of their successors shall then begin.
Or are they in that much rush to shred The Constitution?
Give the man a chance to organize his cabinet and plan his ingeneration carnations.
I meant celebrations.
America’s fortune is a 200+ year tradition of respect for individual liberty, personal industry and the rule of law. The bien pensants may dominate the chattering class, but their socialist dreams run counter to the fundamental political values held by the vast majority of Americans. The New York Times, MSNBC, et. al are vehicles for the expression of wish fulfillment by a select few who style themselves more intelligent, more educated and more compassionate than their fellows, nothing more.
America’s continuing experiment in democracy will continue fundamentally unmolested by the current socialist fashions of the Left. The inertia of our political traditions are too ponderous to be overcome during the term of any one president.
America will never become Europe for the simple reason that Americans are not Europeans. We must be vigorous in prosecuting a political philosophy of conservatism in the political arena and remain confident in the fact that our position is congruent with two centuries of American political traditions, our opponents’ positions are not.
A quote that illustrates the fact that the real fount of American strength is the resilience and strength of the individual American citizen comes from the movie Casablanca.
Major Strasser: Are you one of those people who cannot imagine the Germans in their beloved Paris?
Rick: It’s not particularly my beloved Paris.
Heinz: Can you imagine us in London?
Rick: When you get there, ask me.
Major Strasser: How about New York?
Rick: Well there are certain sections of New York, Major, that I wouldn’t advise you to try to invade.
“…it should expire not a day less than than the duration for which he was elected and not a day more…”
…unless he’s impeached.
I’m very much looking forward to sniping away at him in the same way the left has sniped at Bush for the past eight years, including efforts to impeach his skanky ass. Somehow, I think B. Hussein will be uncovered and there will be *much* more impeachable history and activities about him than there ever was about Texan good ol’ boy, George Bush.
P.S. Am at least happy to report, for any who did not catch the follow-through on the story from a while back, that the guy in West Hollywood who created the Palin-in-a-Noose display for Halloween was persuaded into taking it down. It appears that a combined effort from the community (neighbors parking near his house with signs) and an hour-long phone call from the WeHo mayor (no doubt aghast at the negative attention the story was creating) produced a result which I, on this forum, stated that I was doubtful I would ever see: namely, a perpetrator of a cretinous act shamed into backing off from his cretinous behavior.
Kudos to the neighbors and the mayor. Glad to see that community decency prevailed in that case.
Now … what is to be done about cretinous behavior by high-profile journalists like Collins and Matthews? Who has the stature of the “neighbors” and the “mayor” in this case? It would be none other than fellow national journalists and Obama himself. Where are the picket signs and the phone call?
The irony (amongst many ironies, I guess) of Matthews’ remark is that the very “vacuum at the top” that he decries was created by him and his own, the MSM. Beat down the POTUS for eight years running and, yeah, this is what you get. Not just a lame duck (which happens every time an incumbent is outgoing and, especially, when there’s a change in party of administration), which the American people have seen plenty of times before and so are accustomed to, but … this perception of impotence, the disgust and national exhaustion with the current administration, the “failure” of “leadership” and therefore the perceived “vacuum at the top” … every bit of it can be laid directly on the doorstep of the big media. For Matthews to denounce what he has created is just … rich.
Dr. Frankenstein, anyone?
Or how about Michael Crichton’s sobering caution: Just because something can be done, doesn’t mean it should.
“But, there were always at least SEVERAL a**holes who, although they had an opportunity to merge early and wait it out like everyone else, would instead put the pedal to the metal, zoom to the front of the line and cut in. ”
My observation is this is done by two types of drivers: (1) those in big Cadillac SUV’s, and (2) immigrants. If you get a male Armenian in a Cadillac SUV, for example, you can pretty much guarantee that he’ll create his own lane whenever possible and think nothing of zooming to the forefront of a line and cutting in. Female Armenians also seem to be very good a line-cutting. Male Mexicans in a nice car will also zoom to the front and cut in, although you don’t see Mexicans in beat-up Toyota pick-ups exhibiting the same behavior.
I *loved* it a lot when I saw a cop pull over a male Armenian who had created his own lane on the periphery of rush hour traffic and was zipping along illegally. I’m sure his excuse was, “but that’s how we *always* do it back home!”
Or is my perception mistaken? Has the brazenness always been there and I am just recently starting to see it?
Well, there have always been the brazen, and there has always been the temptation within the rest of us. What we’re seeing is the result of bad manners going unpunished for so long. The handful of brazen individuals, no longer suffering any punishement for their behavior, have started a rush for the buffett.
Very interesting observation about the anonymity of cars. That may indeed be part of the problem.
Or maybe it’s just the baby boomers. Selfish effs, as far as generations go, and a bad influence on the kids.
Don’t the Gail Jones and Chris Matthews of the media world get it? Now that they helped Obama get elected he is done with them.
Since we’re all trying to find our conservative footing these days, I’ll quote Burke: “Manners are more important than laws…manners are what vex or soothe, corrupt or purify, exalt or debase, barbarize or refine us, by a constant, steady, uniform, insensible operation like that of the air that we breathe.”
Matthews and Collins are the boomer “me” generation that’s been nurtured on immediate gratification and a self-righteous claim to the levers of power. It’s simple civic immaturity. This administration is the last gasp of that political class, which is intent on making the whole country drink from the trough of failed 1970s policies. (But they’re really going to do it right this time.)
So prepare for even worse violations. This is the same group that left the Clinton WH with all the W’s pried off the White House keyboards before the Bush Administration took over. If someone were to pry the O’s off the keyboards before Obama gets in, I’m sure they’d be indignant.
But they won’t, because no one will, which is why it’s usually true that conservatives are the grown ups of this country. Their leader has all the trappings of intelligence — degrees, books about himself, senate experience, comely speeches — but no evidence of a vigorous, active intellect. No articles, legal briefs, no books about something other than himself. A mediocrity in elitist clothing. Don’t underestimate, though. Burke also said, “By gnawing through a dike, even a rate may drown a nation.”
I hope to bear witness to the death of the MSM in this cycle.
I would love to see those two unemployed and unemployable in any economy.
NBC has come full circle. The same broadcaster that gave us the “Victory t Sea” series in 1952 has now devolved into nothing more than a breathless mouthpiece for the genocidal neo-stalinists of the American and European left. That transition is perfectly embodied by these two.
We will not have to shoot them. All we have to do is marginalize them and starve them of the only thing that matters to these creatures…on-air time and “respect”.
Or maybe it’s just the baby boomers. Selfish effs, as far as generations go, and a bad influence on the kids
Ouch, JMH. That’s gonna leave a bruise. LOL
But, yes…my generation is making others pay the price for our indulgent upbringing. Unfortunately for me…I didn’t get the any of the “benefits” of indulgence (my late father insisted that I behave as a gentleman and also go to school as if it was my “profession”, not a hobby…therefore he insisted I not wear jeans or flannel shirts, pretty old fashioned stuff for an otherwise modern and moderate, soft-spoken guy)
But we are not close to the “greatest” generation, and the actions of Matthews et al and much of the left is “spoiled brat-ism” gone wild. I’m sad to be associated with it, if only merely by the date of my birth.
Hell, Pelosi and Reid are the power behind the frontman and figure head Obama.
Those who voted to put a black man in office only voted to put two white women and a white man in charge, “HOPE AND CHANGE >said in high falsetto voice” HOPE AND CHANGE!
A Troika is what we are gonna get.
NBC, the face of Ronald Reagan and “General” David Sarnoff is now the face of these puerile fools. They will continue “pushing the envelope” until an adult stops them. Where are the lawyers and the actions for damages?
Personally, I think the issue is the internet and the anonymity afforded there. It seems to me that behavior on the internet is synonymous with that of a 14-year-old boy, and those sorts of manners have seeped out into the Real World (always excepting the massive amount of immigrants we have among us who simply don’t know any better).
The recent televised suicide is exactly the sort of situation I’m talking about, with posters LOL’ing as they watched a young man die. I have to believe that anyone who would write “hahaha” while watching someone suicide doesn’t understand what death is and thinks that everything in life is a joke; in other words, a teenaged boy.
That’s why there’s a trial going on in Los Angeles where the adult mother of a teenaged girl who set up a fake web-site which resulted in the death by suicide of another teenaged girl is garnering such interest and headlines. You *expect* that sort of behavior from a young girl or a young boy, but adults are supposed to KNOW better and act as a restraint … not as an accomplice.
The pseudo-cynical attitude and vicious backstabbing started on the internet among young people who aren’t old enough to have learned manners yet, and it’s spread into real life. I’ve thought to myself that we need to install some kind of filter to keep human beings off the internet who can’t demonstrate a certain level of civility, and basically what that means is keeping teenaged boys locked up and away from civilization until they can be trusted.
However, given that wouldn’t work in a capitalistic environment where money-making is God, there should be some way of telling who the person at the other end of the screen-name is, and if it *is* a dog or a 14-year-old boy and can be safely ignored.
I will believe that Soros is in charge until I see proof to the contrary. Pelosi and Reid may dream they are in charge but I suspect they will be stroked until some key legislation gets through and then they will be eaten for lunch.
America’s fortune is a 200+ year tradition of respect for individual liberty, personal industry and the rule of law. The bien pensants may dominate the chattering class, but their socialist dreams run counter to the fundamental political values held by the vast majority of Americans. … America’s continuing experiment in democracy will continue fundamentally unmolested by the current socialist fashions of the Left. The inertia of our political traditions are too ponderous to be overcome during the term of any one president. … America will never become Europe for the simple reason that Americans are not Europeans.
Phred, I sincerely hope you are right. And you are right insofar as we have to do more than *hope* for (on?) that premise, we have to actively strive on the basis of that premise.
But here’s my concern:
Once upon a time, we really were Europeans. And then, at some point, over a long period of time, that changed. At some point, we reached a tipping point, and we became, in Ben Franklin’s words, “A new nationality” who required “a new nation.”
Which suggests to me that national personalities, temperaments, and dominant ideologies are not eternal things. They can change, and historically have changed, over time.
I believe the question BCers have been wrangling with over the course of so many posts is this gut feeling that America is approaching, or has perhaps reached or even exceeded, such a tipping point … “a new nationality” that will inexorably produce “a new nation” … a lesser and regressive one with regard to the cause of individual liberty and rule of law under the Constitution.
If all we were talking about was “the term of any one president,” then yes, I would agree with you. The personality, traditions and political inclinations of America are not going to change from “A” to “B” over the course of a mere four years.
But I don’t think anyone else here is using a four-year presidential term as the quantity of measurement. A lot of people are talking about the change that has taken place over several decades, since at least the 1960s and the “Great Society” push. Some would likely go farther than that, back to FDR’s administration. And some (giving a nod to Jonah Goldberg) might even go still farther than that, back to Woodrow Wilson and the progressives. Using that standard of measure, “liberal fascism” has been an active and results-producing ideology in America for nearly 100 years now.
If indeed Goldberg’s observations are accurate, then we have been on a statist decline for the better part of a century. Which I think most people would agree is sufficient time for a substantial alteration of national culture and national identity to occur.
Individual liberty, personal industry, and rule of law: Yes, yes, those values are indeed at the heart of the American idea. But is it just the “bien pensants who dominate the chattering classes” who do not subscribe to them anymore? Or is it a significant portion (or even, God forbid, a governing majority) of the American public who have given up on those values as well? That is THE question on which our national destiny hangs.
And so we are back to the process of using measurements. How shall we measure what the public knows, believes, and actively practices, with regard to the above-stated American values?
Individual liberty: Knowledge of the Constitution is a key measurement. Alas, the indicators are not good. Public schools for the most part don’t teach it. Public officials don’t seem to know it either. This includes members of Congress and candidates running for President and Vice President. And we’re not talking about arcane and obscure passages of the Constitution. We’re talking about fundamental things like the First and Second Amendments.
Personal industry: Exhibit A: Peggy the Moocher vs. Joe the Plumber. More people voted for Peggy’s candidate than for Joe’s. Again, not a good indicator.
Rule of law: Ted Stevens, Charles Rangel, William Jefferson, Obama’s online fundraising … all signify not the code of “equal justice under the law” but “laws for thee and not for me.” To what extent that corruption is a bipartisan issue is and will continue to be debated. But corruption in one’s own party always, always, always binds and debilitates those who believe in the rule of law in the long run. Which is why we must expose and eliminate it whenever and wherever we can. In both transcendent and human terms, right makes might … not vice versa. If I didn’t believe that, then there’s no point in any of this and I might as well go out and club my neighbor to death tonight and steal his donkey (or flat screen). And then carve an even bigger club and hunker down in defense for all those who will come seeking me in turn ….
What optimism I have for America (and, though you may not guess it from everything written above, I still do have it) is, I supposed, rooted in this last concept of rule of law. I believe most Americans still retain it at a visceral level. As bad as things seem to be here and now, I hear tell that in other countries, corruption and lawlessness are even worse. We have not yet reached the tipping point of most Americans’ saying to themselves, “Why bother?”
If that’s true, then the “rule of law” value is the high ground that decent, civilized people still hold, the ground that the barbarians have not yet overrun. And it is from that ground that the counter-revolution (or would this be the counter-counter-revolution?) can be fought … and won.
(1) Personal integrity first.
(2) Working outward from there, integrity and honor of the group and party. So that people see there is a real and distinct difference between how “we” behave (in both power and defeat) versus how “they” behave.
(3) Working outward from there, insist on equal application of the law for everyone: “we,” “they,” and all the undecideds. (I think I’m echoing Wretchard here.)
(4) Having (re-)established accountability for those in power, the battles for individual liberty and personal industry (and public belief and confidence therein) become that much more winnable.
Obviously I’m simplifying. And obviously the pork- and power-mongers aren’t going to give up their special status easily. They really, truly believe that “All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.” But that doesn’t mean we have to let them get away with that big fat pernicious lie. Because if rule of law goes for good, then all will genuinely lost.
My bad. Forgot to close italics in Paragraph 4 beginning with the word “Europeans.” All else from that word and following should be standard font. Sorry folks!
@NahnCee.
Well said,
Grumpy mode On.
In better times (Hrrmumpf) there was a clear distinction between boys, in knee pants, and men, in suits. One obvious rite of passage between the two was military service. A good reason to institute Universal Service is to lance the boil of adolescence. Now many of us will worry about giving the Obamatons control over the nation’s youth for a period of indoctrination. Remember that they have already had almost everybody for 12 years of public education. My suggestion is a six month period. I have already bored everyone about the proposal.
Just saw a commercial for an Obama commemorative coin and it occurs to me that this push to get Obama in office sooner than specified in our Constitution is anti-capitalism at its worst.
Give all these people as much time as possible to make money off this historic election.
I made an earlier post that was swallowed by the “automated post swallower” so I obviously included something flagged as inappropriate. Probably so, so I will summarize. As mentioned by someone else in an earlier post here, there are blogs, etc. springing up offering local news, etc. as kind of cottage industries. I did not think too deeply about this until a friend of mine started her own effort in a rural area of the country. This is the revolution, folks. This is grassroots at its finest. This is or could be, an end run around the MSM. We need to get involved and support these efforts in any way we can, in my opinion. This is news people in communities need and they will come. It is an opportunity to get the adult message out. Most commenters on this post would be a real asset to a small local news blog. Help them find good blogs they can link to, such as the one our kind host has provided. Belmont Club could become what the Associated Press might have been, a source of good sound editorial comment for these small local blogs.
What are your ideas, thoughts?
The Associated Press is probably a bad analogy, but you probably get my drift.
Agree that Sore@ss is in charge. Obama, Reed, and Pelosi are puppets too moronic to have a thought of their own.
Collins and Matthews your jobs are done why don’t you quit. Obama already has his gours to desyroy this country why give him another two months. And take Madcow and Overbite with you. NY Times stock was around 5$ last time I looked. Hope they aren’t part of the bailout everyone else appears to be.
Google “Resolution 511 McCain” and read up on it.
The leftist illuminati is ridiculous for suggesting Bush resign. If he was going to resign just because people didn’t like him, that would have happened a long time ago
Back ar comment #61. (Commentor) TADTAP
One for the record books. World’s longest one night stand, 2 years. BHO “riding” the MSM.
You’re really funny!
The problem is – and I have been pondering this for a while now – that there is no longer any social platform to express *decency*.
I am serious here.
If I want to be degenerate, offensive, perverse, treasonous,or just generally obstructive I can… well, join Code Pink comes to mind immediately. But that is only one sub-cluster. One can shout ( personal or political vulgarities) flash body parts ( starting with fingers) march around ( streets) damage property (vandalism to bombs) or practice any of the well established ‘message’ methods of the ‘progressive’.
What, however, if I want to support my country, commend my fellow citizens, encourage constructive effort, or even… here is the one that is *impossible* in the current politi-cultural rule book – politely express disagreement and/or disapprobation of the actions listed in the paragraph above when they are flaunted before me by the purile Left? What is MY counter action?
Going to work? Going to Church? Paying taxes, for heavens sake? We do the good things only to see them turned against us, and the results of our good conduct taken to enable those who insult us.
We need to
1) Come up with a general non-obscene gesture that means ‘Sorry, but I think you are 100% wrong and do not support you in any way’ so as to allow some public count of the counter-dialogue. (I realize that whatever it is will instantly be declared the distillation of evil intent by finger-slashing lefties – but then they have always held non-compliance with themselves to be the highest and indeed only evil so…*shrug* ) At least the general public will be able to count.
2) At some point come up with some stronger counter-action tactic. In the short term – I have no idea what would be appropriate/effective. In the long term? I have become nervously aware that the time will eventually come for a general strike. It’s not that time yet. Not – I pray – even near time. But the sudden and intentional and DECLARED withholding of service by the productive sector is the only think that will impose on the leech class the reality of their dependancy.
The Berg case (Berg vs. Obama et al) may be heard by the US Supreme Court on December 5 at which time the MSM will have to cover this unbelievable story. If Obama is forced to prove that he is “a natural born citizen” and can’t, then all hell will break loose.The Electoral College electors will not be able to cast votes for Obama as he’s a fraud (and certainly an enemy of the state). Imagine the public uproar and how the MSM will make this into a racial rather than constitutional test.
The Electoral College electors will not be able to cast votes for Obama
Sure they can. How you gonna stop them? Appeal to their consciences? (Those were aborted years ago.)
And as the Dems have demonstrated with their little shows during the vote counting in ’001 and ’005, the sole judge of electoral votes is Congress, and there’s no way the Dems are going to stop The Big Zero! from taking office.
The Electoral College meeets Dec 15th. They elect the President. Right now there are over a dozen cases pending in the courts challenging his citizenship.
Forbes magazine just did a large article on it so now it is in the mainstream. SCOTUS could at any time reach down and pick any of the cases and for him to produce aan original which will no doubt undergo FBI and other labs forensic testing.
He could be disqualified. For those of you who believe it is a settle issue I would not be so eager to close that chapter.
And if he is disqualified. Civil War.
In the event of the death of the President-elect, the Vice-President-elect becomes President-elect, will be sworn in on January 20, and would nominate a replacement Vice President.
Re: Postponing the Inauguration
The Constitution establishes Inauguration Day as January 20 in the year following the election. This date is iron-clad and does not change even if the date falls on a Sunday.
bogie wheel and NahnCee’s point about the relationship between manners and anonymity is excellent.
One the benefits of good manners is the minimization of regret. When I think back on situations where I didn’t behave well, I always regret it, even when, on the principal point, I was in the right. Yeah, that waitress really took a long time and screwed up my order, but I still regret being snarky and cutting.
Anonymity reduces concerns about regret. After all, I don’t have to worry about what people think about me, because they don’t know it’s me. This is good for me, but bad for everyone else. But when the behavior spreads, it’s bad for me too.
In this sense, bad manners are a tragedy of the commons.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons
I get the benefit of the cathartic release or feeling of power that comes from a troll post or zooming past everyone in traffic, but I impose costs on everyone else. And if everyone behaves this way the result is a deterioration of everyone’s quality of life, including my own.
Commons dilemmas are very difficult to solve. The best way, in theory, is to privatize the commons. This might work with resource dilemmas, but it’s hard to see how we might do that with manners. Another approach is to impose costs on offenders, perhaps through social sanction, although that’s something we’re loath to do in modern American society. Yet another approach is through regulation, but this generally runs afoul of free speech rights. Works great in Singapore, though. Finally, we can use authority as a means of controlling behavior; the problem here, though, is that we’ve spent the better part of 4 decades undermining the very notion of legitimate authority.
In the past, people were excluded from what was, interestingly, referred to as “polite society” when they exhibited boorish behavior. Today, however, the cool kids show their coolness by their attitude, i.e. by their rudeness. Hip-hop culture actually views offensive behavior as a contributor to “street cred.” This same culture also encourages the use of pseudonyms – Biggie, P Diddy, Snoop Dogg, 50 Cent. This practice probably makes it easier to be rude without regret.
If I really wanted to be provocative, I’d argue that the inflection point for this general coarsening of society was the SCOTUS’s determination that we have a right to privacy. This penumbral right shaped the battlespace for successive engagements: pornography, emasculating the intelligence services, outlawing terrorist surveillance, and (of course) abortion. It created a bright-line distinction between public and private behavior, and said that society had to meet a very high burden before it could impose regulations on private behavior.
Of course that line was always of the Maginot variety. Today we cannot count on the right to privacy to protect us against government censure if we utter politically-incorrect statements, and yet the private pathologies that have grown under its protection have now seeped back into the public square, spreading their disease within the body politic. Those who promote acceptance of those pathologies are often filled with regret, and now seek social approval for their bad actions, at the expense of generally-accepted norms of behavior. Live and let live is no longer good enough; we must now validate their transgressions. Manners are a necessary victim of this process.
But I’d only say that if I wanted to be provocative. And I’d never want to do that. After all, such a provocation would be bad manners, and would make me a hypocrite.
L3
Let the Democrats immediately assume power, calculate how much they will lower taxes for 95% of taxpayers, and send those amounts in the mail, while there still is time to shop for Christmas.
I’m one of the 95% who earns less than $250,000 a year, and I’m ready to start spending the money from my tax reduction right now. Why should I have to wait until after January 20, 2009, when the next Christmas is already on December 25, 2008?
Democrats, you promised tax cuts and tax rebates to 95% of us! Send us our money now!!
“Why do we stand in line at a buffet and not rush to the front if we can get away with it?”
You can never make a return at a buffet line.
Buy Kool Ade stock now, but don’t drink it!
The messiah’s enthronement is nigh
With anticipation so very high
But alas and alack
The clamoring claque
Have to wait for the one from on high
….nnnn..’o.o’..uu!u….algie
Illegitimi nOn carborundum
‘This practice probably makes it easier to be rude without regret.’
Leo, you’re making the assumption that the transgressors know enough about what’s expected of them to feel regret in the first place. My point is that new immigrants and 14-year-old boys and hip-hop gangsta’s have never been told what’s expected of them, so they can immediately sink to the lowest common denominator of line-jumping and name-calling with impunity.
My take on adults like CodePink and older KosKidz is that they may, simply, be nuts … some chemical imbalance that makes it impossible to refrain from cursing out loud or acting out in public.
That’s why I think we need to come up with some type of filter to keep them off the internet, which might also restrain their behavior in public — that you can’t play on your computer until you’ve demonstrated at least the minimum amount of control needed to get a driver’s license.
Annie B’s idea of a strike is new to me and I’ll have to consider it. It strikes me initially as being full of holes, but we need to do SOMEthing different, because what we’ve got going now is not working.
*His followers demanding Bush resign is a sign that Obama is not merely seen as the next President but a living God, a Messiah.*
His “followers” are the same dolts who said he was “selected” the first time, cheated to win the second time and should have been impeached as soon as the authorization to use force passed both houses. They aren’t to be taken seriously.
I propose that Obama be tried now for crimes against humanity–we all know his policies will result in millions of dead jews and Americans. Hey, why waste the time in between now and the eventual tribunal at Nuremberg?
NahnCee
I wasn’t suggesting a *permanent* or open ended ‘general strike’ a la France ( nor one accompanied by public ill and injury also a la France et all lefties ) but rather more like ‘a day without a responsible human being’ a la ‘day without a’ Mexican/ illegal/ gay/ wombat/ whatever. A day of serious prayer for our country and our families.
Problem is that – unlike the more PC ‘days without’ it is foreordained that the MSN and PTB will downsize our numbers to the same ratio that they ‘upsize’ the attendance of leftist events. (Thus the 100,000 attendance ‘Million Man’). Thus the tactic would not be impactful unless ( and until ) one could be certain that the impact was unignorable and un-brush-under-the-carpet-able.
10% response – even 1% response – to a moonbat ‘call to action’ would be acclaimed a sweeping demand of the public will never to be resisted. 10% conservative abstension would be ‘no one in our world so it didn’t happen’ to the sheltered elite. (Recall that the Birmingham bus strike was nothing until rich white women lost their maid service. THAT is hitting at home.) Only when the loss is uncomfortable – stores closed, roads empty, services out of service ) will the act be acknowledged. Even 20% might not be enough. At 30% however the nation would shake. (Over 30% I do not consider possible, as that would hit safety services and.. then we are no longer talking just protest. )
As I say – the time is not now. No one is *that* PO’d. No one’s life or property is *that* endangered. But I keep in mind that times change and – although I hope not – the time may come.
I’m starting to wonder if Democrats will remain so locked into their Bush-hating fanaticism that they will never accept that we won the war in Iraq. For example, here is a change in history I noticed in a front-page article in the NYT yesterday, in a little snip that explains Hillary’s former position on Iraq in contrast to Obama:
“…Mrs. Clinton portraying herself as a hawkish Democrat and defending her decision to vote in favor of the 2002 resolution that Mr. Bush later considered an authorization to use military force against Saddam Hussein. (Later, she said she fully expected Mr. Bush to use diplomacy first — and was shocked that he did not.)”
Hmmm, Bush considered it an authorization to use military force … how strange he would think that, since it was called the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002.
And, Colin Powell served as M.C. as we spent about a year in front of the UN Security Council, we made direct demands on Iraq to avoid the threat of war for a year or more, but Mrs. Clinton was shocked that we didn’t use diplomacy first.
The NYT, and my Democratic brethren I fear, have officially entered the realm of Soviet “history” in the sense that they can’t, don’t and won’t ever know what happened in history, because history is something that is simply rewritten to fit the political agenda of the time.
The Egyptians knew what to do – Blog in Granite, makes it harder to change History.
Remember, the NYT published glowing articles about the USSR in the 20′s and 30′s as millions died in the dark where the light of the NYT didn’t shine.
“A Republic, if you can keep it.”
L3 -
I would put that general coarsening of society somewhere around the ascendence of Hugh Hefner’s empire, which seems to be in the ballpark with (and is in some ways related to) the SCOTUS decisions you allude to.
And the point about the difficulty of trying to codify in law legally protected private behavior versus public behavior is a good one as well. Where indeed does one draw the line? I can think of perhaps no more socially (publicly) impactful act that a couple can do than to create a child … and yet at the same time there is perhaps no act I would rather keep as far away from the clutches of government regulation as this. On the one hand, way too many idiots, degenerates and downright skells make children, screw them up, and foist the nasty results onto the rest of us; but I can’t help believe that it would be far nastier to have the government licensing who is “fit” to have babies and who is not.
Back when survival of the species was more dominant in our consciousness than it is now, at least in the West, choosing a mate who would be a suitable father or mother for your children (in terms of provision, nurturing, common sense, stability, etc.), was, it seems to me, a highly regarded goal for both the individual and that individual’s community. But when life got comfortable, life also got cheap. And I mean “cheap” not in the way that in brutal societies, lives are snuffed out all the time in the struggle over scarce resources, but “cheap” in the sense of devaluation amidst abundance.
Scarcity, or poverty, as Heinlein pointed out, has been the norm of the human condition throughout history. And thus tyrants grinding the poor and powerless under their heel in order to horde for themselves and their “tribe” wealth, food, power, and other material goods … that is the norm. In that sense, men like Hitler and Stalin are “old world” … they industrialized the methods but their natures were still very much in the tradition of a scrabbling Herod or Genghis Khan.
But modern Western prosperity is the anomaly. Who, in the “old world” mentality of scarcity, would have thought that people who live like kings (by historical standards, virtually all Americans since the 1950s) would be offing their unborn progeny at the rate of 1 in 3? Would even Herod be able to bend his twisted mind around NARAL?
Government is a blunt instrument, much as lawyers would like to think they produce scalpels in regulations and ordinances. But government does not have, and can never have, the nuance of a wise parent disciplining an unruly youth, or a loving family helping an unwed couple through an unplanned pregnancy.
The tragedy of contemporary America is, I believe, the romanticization of individual autonomy and its detachment from personal responsibility. The romanticization leads to gobbledy-gook like SCOTUS’ 1992 Casey decision, wherein the individual supposedly has a “right to define one’s own concept of existence, of meaning, of the universe, and of the mystery of human life …” (We hire these people to interpret laws according to the Constitution, and yet some of them are under the mistaken belief that we hire them to be our philosopher kings.)
Unless and until the individual is both culturally and legally de-romanticized, which is to say, once again viewed as a fallible and culpable moral being (all three adjectives are important), we are going to have a big problem with a lack of decency in the public sphere.
Because, as AnnieB points out, the decent, the courteous, and the civilized will always be at a disadvantage, as individuals, to indecent and uncivilized individuals.
Agree completely with Bob Murphy who pinpoints the Left’s hate-mongering when they pick on the Constitution itself!
As ‘internationalists’ they are compelled to hate/disavow American tradition since US history stands in the way of their ‘world view’..
One does wonder, though, why more of them have not left the United States and gone to build a New Empire elsewhere!??
NYT having its Aaron Burr moments,
This is not unlike a Parliamentary debate for back-benchers to attempt to make a name for themselves in certain circles. But we do not rule by parliament and we do not rush to change willy nilly, patience and practice and the rule of law so long as enough agree that it needs to be agreed to.
The analogy of Obama to Jim Jones is right on the mark.
They even have some of the same associates and mentors.
Despite the common belief that the leadership of the People’s Temple all died at Jonestown, it’s a fact, documented in Congressional records, that 20 of the top leaders escaped.
People’s Temple was based on “liberation theology” just like Obama’s so-called church. It was openly Communist like all “liberation theology” organizations.
If we still had a press in this country, the next four years would be a very interesting exercise in rattling cages.
Bush should resign, Cheney can be president, ( that will get the libs spewing) he can appoint C. Rice as VP. He can resign and Condi will be the first black woman president, a Republican.
Suck on that thought “change ” traitors.
oops, see that is a repeat, still a out freaking standing idea. Condi in 08!
UNIONS: FROM FAIR TO FASCIST
“Card check” legislation means it will be labor unions that will be unfairly exploiting American working families. That is fascism, not freedom. More at this link:
http://greensrealworld.blogspot.com/2008/11/unions-from-fair-to-fascist.html
Collins and Matthews are idiots. They are idiots who should be ignored. Too give them any attention is to provide these idiots with an outlet. I recommend that you either ignore these idiots or actively work to have them removed from their positions. Finally this has nothing to do with Obama.
The “Rule of Law” is what upsets me most about illegal immigration. When you begin your new life by committing a crime it becomes easier to continue in that manner because, gosh, committing crimes improves your life. What a shame many people in this country are willing to look the other way for instant gratification. It makes me long for Heinlein’s vision of citizenship in Starship Troopers. In order to be a citizen (and vote) you have to earn it by first serving in some manner.
NahnCee,
I guess I believe that everyone, save true psychopaths, have a little voice that tells them when they’ve done wrong. Maybe I’m just naive.
But I gotta tell you, that little voice is loud as hell when you have a hangover.
Cheers.
L3
bee is correct. I do not even watch or read them to say idiotic things, as entertaining as that may be, because it would improve their ratings/readership. I just ignore them and get my news elsewhere. When their numbers continue to drop, they will be retired.
Maybe Gail and Chris should read the 25th Amendment before making asses of themselves.
105 – you beat me to it:
Amendment 25 – Presidential Disability and Succession. Ratified 2/10/1967.
1. In case of the removal of the President from office or of his death or resignation, the Vice President shall become President.
2. Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress.
Not to mention, the vote has not even been certified in the Congress yet. I wouldn’t expect the hangers-on to Gail and Chris’ words to understand simple government civics.
Which by the way nullifies the idea of Cheney “appointing” Condi Rice. The President doesn’t “appoint” a VP upon a vacancy in that office. The President only nominates, and the Congress must confirm.
I was only a wee kid when we went through this with Spiro Agnew & Gerald Ford, but at least I remember that much.
Actally, I have no problem with Barack Obama lobbying, (at this point, Barack’s silence to such a ridiculous idea is tantamount to agreement)for Bush and Chaney to resign forthwith.
By the same token, it is the considered opinion of tens of millions of Americans that Obama should elect not to assume the office that tens of millions of morons elected him to.
If Barack Hussein were truly honest with himself, even he would have to agree that Barack is wholly and totally unqualified to be commander in chief.
Barack’s twenty year long relationship with terrorists Khalidi, Dorne and Ayers along with his sick tie to Jeremy Wright, along with his anti-surge belief which surely would have lost the war in Iraq, disqualify him from being President of even his local PTA.
Furthermore, I think Collins and Matthews should be applauded for opening the thought door to Obama, should he not renounce the Presidency, at least resign from it as soon as he makes the cataclysmic blunder or misfeasence that not only is his want, but is his manifest destiny.
One more thought, anyone who voted for Obama should voluntarily relinquish their right to vote for a term not less than twelve not more than twenty four years.
What’s fair is fair, what’s right is right, what’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
Let me be clear about this in words that are very short. The House and the Other Place will not pass any bill or confirm any person to make George Bush happy. If every Judge and the Veep and every office head quit then the jobs would stay open until after Bush is gone.
All in very short words.
“Finally this has nothing to do with Obama.”
bee is incorrect in that it has EVERYthing to do with Obama. He empowered them.
For all that his enemies decried Bush’s supposed disregard for the Constitution, a lot of them seem to treat it as an inconvenience when it goes against their own personal desires.
I’d be angrier at the Collins’ and the Matthews of the world, except the dwindling mindshare of Dinosaur Media. They (or at least their employers) are earning their place on the dustheap of history.
Leo, Bogie and Nahncee,
Could the youth vote be the reason for the coarsening discourse we’re seeing?
I mean, it’s been almost 50 years since Vietnam, so Congress’s institution of the draft and its lowering of the voting age to 18 are old news. But, could it be the legislative quid pro quo of those days is haunting us decades later?
Most adults, if asked when they thought they achieved enough maturity to vote responsibly, say they didn’t really get their heads on straight until their thirties. Twenty, as a life benchmark, may come too early to earn one the franchise, but I think it was a good compromise.
Eighteen’s way too early, though. Add in the temptation for political parties to brand our suggestible youths for life, and paid media’s motives for genuflecting to this surging demographic become easy to discern.
Anyhow, Wwhatever Collins et al’s goals may be, do journalists really need to stoop so low to achieve them?
You really have to laugh about a column here about bad manners! Has anyone stop to think that is like the pot calling the kettle black
bogie wheel,
Great post.
This question of what to do about the relationship between public and private is one of the most important for any society to figure out. If we look to the state to set all norms, we end up with fascist totalitarianism. If we ignore the impact of individual behavior on social norms, we end up with anarchy and tyranny of the strong.
Historically, religion was an important source of social cohesion. But the use of the state to enforce religious norms, whether in the Holy Roman Empire, England of Henry VIII, or the Islamic Republic of Iran, clearly creates more problems than it solves. On the other hand, the elimination of religion from political considerations – Neuhaus’ naked public square – has not been good for our nation.
It seems to me the Founders got it right: no state-established religion, but freedom to practice any religion. This balance worked fairly well for a long time. But, contrary to the current fashion within the intelligentsia, the current imbalance was not caused by encroachment of religion on the state, but rather the expansion of the state into areas previously the province of private action, including the practice of religion.
School prayer is a great example. The problem with school prayer is not the notion that kids should pray at school; the problem is that the states run the schools, so any prayer runs afoul of the Establishment Clause. I personally oppose school prayer for the reason that I’m really uncomfortable with politicians deciding what constitutes acceptable prayer. It would be easy to see where ACORN-style tactics could end up exposing kids to really noxious stuff.
The solution, however, is not to force prayer into public schools; the solution is to remove the state control of elementary and high school education. If parents could choose where to send their kids to school, they could directly control the type of prayer (if any) that their kids would be exposed to.
I’m not intending to push this discussion in the direction of debating school prayer. My point here is that the expansion of the state into broad areas of society is the yin to the yang of the romanticization of the individual you wrote of in your post. Somewhere between fascism and radical individualism there lies an optimal balance.
Unfortunately, those who oppose de-romanticization do so because they think the only alternative is Hitler. This line of “argument” is often persuasive because we still remember Hitler.
The Dark Ages, not so much.
Cheers.
L3
I’ve lost track of where all I’ve seen this nonsense, but the that appalls me most is the abysmal ignorance of the “press” of the Constitution.
There is no mechanism by which Obama can become president before Inauguration day. And Congress can not amend the Constitution to permit it.
Thank God.
steveaz,
Interesting point on the “age of reason.”
When the Constitution was written, life expectancy was much shorter. According to The British Population by Colman and Salt, gentlemen and members of the professional class in England in 1820 had a life expectancy of 50 (life expectancy for all classes was 41). In addition, the world was much simpler and more compartmentalized (people travelled much less often, and much less distance).
Today, our life expectancy is 80. If we were to do a proportional adjustment, a voting age of 18 would be increased to 29.
Politically impractical, but an interesting point to ponder nevertheless.
Cheers.
L3
Taking, as I do, the opinions of Gail Collins and Leftists like her as normative of their mindset, it is obvious what they think of the Constitution of the United States. They are, bluntly, enemies of it. Therefore, our enemies. They are not truly fellow citizens, since they nullify their citizenship by voiding their allegiance TO THE CONTRACT THAT BINDS US ALL.
If we’re gonna change presidents between now and 1/20/09, might I suggest Alexander Haig. He seemed to be decisive the last time.
..the valid points above aside, there were a preponderance of posts before the election (KOs-o- vite program or otherwise) who just unmercifully ran down Bush and his current administration, expressing a need for any change whatsoever.
While there are valid points to be made on this subject (GW has his faults) with the advent of this nascent clique pf boobs descending upon DC, it’s great to see the fruit loops scatter and normal citizens realize that the grownups will be leaving DC on 19 January 2009.
One can only hope that the tribal drums here and elsewhere keep the good and honest citizens of this great land aware of the chicanery afoot by the vapid leadersip of congress and The Messianic presence — the HNIIC (Head Nicotine Ingester In Charge) — so that they can get flushed into the honey bucket of history and the earliest opportunity.
..persevere..
steveaz -
IMO it wasn’t lowering the youth vote to 18 per se. In that time and place … when there was a war and a draft on, and many young men were being compelled to serve in the military at 18 but could not vote until 21 … lowering the voting age to 18 was the right thing to do (the other two things being, either repeal the draft or raise it to age 21, neither of them doable in that time and place). In my book, if you’re wearing the uniform of the United States of America, you should at least be allowed to vote, or be on your way to earning your citizenship.
All things said & done, allowing 18-year-olds (as opposed to 21-year-olds) to vote has not, I believe, made that great an impact on either the outcome of elections nor what you wonder about, the “coarsening discourse.”
I think the coarsening has been driven (I just mistakenly typed “drivel,” but that fits, too!) by culture, not politics. It spread from the former into the latter — again, IMO. I know folks will point to presidential campaigns of the past and bring up examples of vicious rhetoric and personal attacks. But, really, have we ever seen anything on the level of, for example, the four collegiates wearing the “Sarah Palin is a C**T” t-shirts, because they thought it was clever/funny/edgy, and being not in the least bit ashamed to parade themselves in front of cameras while doing so?
There’s openly disgusting language like that in political discourse because there’s openly disgusting language like that in the culture. And because most Gen-Y Americans have never known a different cultural atmosphere (and some did not have parents who curbed their language), they are, yes, going to be some of the most aggregious offenders.
But the corrective is not to take away the vote from 18-year-olds. The corrective is to (1) teach them the Constitution and other founding documents, and a proper awe for the amazing legacy of self-government we have inherited, and (2) wash their mouths out with soap (or, if you prefer, make ‘em drop a quarter in a jar) when they drop a verbal bomb around ears that shouldn’t be subjected to that kind of stuff. (Which, ideally, should be everyone’s ears, but you can’t control what 16-year-olds say in the exclusive company of other 16-year-olds.)
My Dad’s squadron commander from WWII was, at 23, the youngest squadron commander in the Marine Corps at that time (1943). When I interviewed General Axtell in 1990, I asked him what he thought were the reasons behind the squadron’s outstanding record and the achievements of its individual members, and what lessons we could take from that today. He replied that young people will either rise or fall to the level of expectations that you set for them. Much was expected of George Axtell at age 23, and of his fellow Marines at ages 18, 19, 25, 26 … they were responsible for each other’s lives. So whatever growing up they still had to do at that point, they did PDQ. And they performed to the level of excellence that the Marine Corps had set for them, and (for many) their parents before that.
What is different about what’s expected of young people now, versus what was expected then, in my Dad’s generation? That’s a subject for a different post. But the answer, I think, is closely related to the “bad manners” subject of this post.
aggregious = egregious
Sheesh.
bogie wheel at #122,
I would characterize Gail Collins’ opinions as well beyond “bad manners.” Besides, she’s an Older Cohort Baby Boomer (she was born in 1945)and not a GenY kid. People like her probably do know better, but they’ve consciously embraced Marxism’s expediency to replace the contract called the Constitution.
The purges of Stalin, Mao, Ho, Pol Pot, and others have had no effect on their mentality. These people are a pestilence upon the nation. While on one level their opinions are laughable, most assuredly on another level they are positively poisonous – and perfidious.
They of course, think they have a right to rule the nation themselves, did’nt you know?
If obama, and his conspiraters tried to do that, they would cause a civil war.
But we all know they never gave President Bush the respect he deserves, yet they want us to respect obama as if he deserves it for some reason.
Bob Owens at Confederate Yankee has a post up about Collins and now Thomas Friedman suggesting that President Bush step down early.
My post at #23 was somewhat tongue in cheek (albeit, not entirely), but have they completely gone insane? What is the point of this, to remove the last shred of credibility, to overstate the case that they have lost objectivity, or to create a level of base behavior below which it would be nearly impossible to fall?
Just when I think we have reached the bottom notch, they convince me that my mind cannot fathom their depths of depravity or predict their next ring of hell.
Their lack of basic human graciousness, their craven and despicable churlish behaviors are so unworthy of mass dissemination, it boggles the mind that there are enough fools who actually spend real currency to be stained with this rot.
As I live and breathe, give me reason to believe that these graceless grandstanders do not have an audience of any size or substance. It would be too sad to endure otherwise.
How is Obama, come January, going to be able to place his hand on the open Bible and swear to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America when he believes it’s so flawed? And how are we going to see him doing so, without gagging?
Didn’t Hindenburg have to resign early?
Karen, simple… as a pathological sociopathic narcissist, BHO has no conscience. His ego feeds on adulation and whatever achieves more of it, he’d do, without any internalized conflict and any gagging.
That is not to say he is an instant gratification personality. He can strategize for better results and plan quite ahead, years if needs to be. He knows that he can have a wren in his fist any time he desires, so he is after the pigeon on the roof and devising how to catch him and enjoying how pigeon is led into the trap.
Bush and Cheney to resign?
Not necessarily. It wouldn’t accomplish positive results.
IMPEACH Bush and Cheney.
Now we’re talking.
I work for the ’08ama camp. I am not liking most of these posts.
I will be making a full report to “The One” on the tactics here and by January 22, you folks will be off the tubes of the internets !
BWahahahahah !!
carry on..
I know your type, 0Bama. I lived for 30 years in “workers paradise” and these snitches were dime a dozen. One thing though, they seemed to be prone to work accidents more than other segments of population. Later, people fed them improbable stuff, so their reports were looked at suspicion by secret police after chasing ghosts for a while. And one day, sometimes in 1989, they were out of their jobs and everyone knew who they were. In one of these places it was called “lustration”, e.g. shining light on cockroaches.
May you live in interesting times of your own making, 0Bama.
fred – “Besides, she’s an Older Cohort Baby Boomer (she was born in 1945)and not a GenY kid. People like her probably do know better, but they’ve consciously embraced Marxism’s expediency to replace the contract called the Constitution.”
I’m at the opposite edge of the Boomer bulge, and I’ve found that Boomers in general and that segment in particular are perfect examples of what the writer had in mind when he penned Proverbs 26:11.
Regards
Good post Wretchard,
Good manners and ethical behavior make a consensual government possible. It is often said that you don’t judge a person by what he does when people are watching, but by what he does when people are not watching.
Without a citizenry that voluntarily complies with the laws society has to become authoritarian and create all sorts of laws and regulations.
I have said it here before, no regulation or law will curb a person with bad intent, they will either blatantly ignore the law/regulation or find a way to circumvent it by exploiting loopholes or other unregulated behaviors.
Laws & regulations are for the ignorant and good. The good and wise person knows what is required and just in a situation, but the good and ignorant person does not know but is willing to go along with the just course of action and needs guidance.
But… the current imbalance was not caused by encroachment of religion on the state, but rather the expansion of the state into areas previously the province of private action…School prayer is a great example. The problem with school prayer is not the notion that kids should pray at school; the problem is that the states run the schools, so any prayer runs afoul of the Establishment Clause. I personally oppose school prayer for the reason that I’m really uncomfortable with politicians deciding what constitutes acceptable prayer. It would be easy to see where ACORN-style tactics could end up exposing kids to really noxious stuff.
The solution, however, is not to force prayer into public schools; the solution is to remove the state control of elementary and high school education.
Bingo. Bingo. I was attempting to make a variation of this point on another PJM comment thread. There are two spheres to public life, the political (coercive) and civil (voluntary), and both are needed for a healthy society. Unfortunately, we on the right keep letting the Left sucker us into this same trap. The Left claims that government should make a decision that is particularly obnoxious to us (e.g. kids may not pray in school). We respond by arguing government should make the other decision (kids should pray in school). But that just dooms us because even if we win that particular argument, we’ve lost the bigger argument by conceding one more piece of civil society to government’s tender mercies.
We need to respond like you said – instead of arguing about which decision government should make, we should fight to preserve the independence of civil society.
Contrarian – Don’t try to cheer me up with the plane crash scenario….
Manners exist in part because there are sanctions for Bad Manners. Either they are applied by the state, or by others.
Ms. Collins’ Modest Proposal is indeed bizarre. As is the talk about government commissions and such to investigate Bush administration “war crimes,” torture and, probably jaywalking.
The Lefties figuratively and literally laughing it up now, because the political worm has for the moment turned in their favor would do well to remember that one reason Bad Manners are Bad Form is because of self interest. The same unmannerly sanctions that so many of them would like to see applied to Righties. . .can be applied to Lefties some day also.
Vapid people like Gail Collins and Chris Matthews are what happen when colleges move from History, English, Economics, Chemistry and Math to subdivided majors (History of women or midieval poetry)and LitCrit.
More like them are turned out every day by people who majored in something called “Education.”
I neevr though I’d say it, but George Stephanopolous is looking smarter, more prudent and more…adult.. by the hour.
I just checked into Gail Collins’ bio and she has a Masters in Government. One would presume that those who study “Government” have some familiarity with the U.S. Constitution. But maybe not. However, if she does then it only solidifies my opinion that the Left willfully uses our founding document for its purposes only – and discards what it no longer needs.
@ 136. El Jefe Maximo:
“The same unmannerly sanctions that so many of them would like to see applied to Righties. . .can be applied to Lefties some day also.”
Especially by those of their kind. You know, left deviation, right deviation… Depending which particular lefty honcho holds the sway, it is easy to be deviant, particularly when he feels threatened. And if there is no deviation, one can be invented.
Lefties have this unjustified impression that once leftists are in power, it is a party time for everyone (leftist that is). But, though the political spectrum is narrower, the society stratifies along the usual boundaries with a conspicuous gap in the middle. Honchos (sometimes called nomenclatura) at the top boundary and proles, hoi polloi, at the bottom boundary.
“Good manners and ethical behavior make a consensual government possible.”
Thus, the slippery downhill path when the lunatic left refused to accept the results of the 2004 election and have tried with all their might ever since to overthrow an elected and sitting government. Acts which in polite society might be referred to as traitorous.
Now, we on the right are being asked to overlook this behavior and help a sociopath form a “consensual government”. I just don’t see how throwing support behind a bunch of childish cheats is going to be productive or helpful so here and now in America, our concept of “consensual government” is teetering on the brink of extinction.
@127. Dr. Lumplevin:
Didn’t Hindenburg have to resign early?
Only in the sense of being called upstairs by the Big Boss. In my opinion that was neither a resignation nor a firing, although it was undoubtedly a termination.
Gail Collins is STUPID.
From M-W online:
Main Entry:
1stu·pid Listen to the pronunciation of 1stupid
Pronunciation:
\ˈstü-pəd, ˈstyü-\
Function:
adjective
Etymology:
Middle French stupide, from Latin stupidus, from stupēre to be numb, be astonished — more at type
Date:
1541
1 a: slow of mind : obtuse b: given to unintelligent decisions or acts : acting in an unintelligent or careless manner c: lacking intelligence or reason : brutish2: dulled in feeling or sensation : torpid 3: marked by or resulting from unreasoned thinking or acting : senseless 4 a: lacking interest or point b: vexatious , exasperating
President Obama recently visited White House and met the man responsible for some of the worst crimes against humanity: George W. Bush.
I spoke with President Obama this week about his experience there. It was an emotionally draining moment for the young President. “Being in the White House was disturbing and odd”, Obama told me. “We’re about to have this legal transfer of power yet the symbol and home of that power is a place where all these illegal things were done”.
“As I walked through the halls that place I could see and feel all the weight and presence of all the old white power. You cannot escape it. There was dozens, hundreds of paintings and statues of white men of power. There was nothing there to indicate that the majority of humanity is of color. I really do not know how I can live there or have my family there.”
“I thought about slavery and I could hear the cries of America’s victims in that place. If you listen, you can hear them”.
As for the leader of the current regime in power Obama chose not to comment. “We will be making changes,” he said.
http://truthfirstnow.blogspot.com
Truth First wouldn’t know the truth if it hit him/her right in the face.
” There was dozens, hundreds of paintings and statues of white men of power. There was nothing there to indicate that the majority of humanity is of color.”
American presidents. Elected servants. Not kings, autocrats and dictators. Representing Americans, not Africans, Orientals, what not.
This divisiveness or stratification of people based on color is setting back the gains made in the second half of 20th century.
Color of one skin is nonsense. I turn from white to light brown during summer. There is only one race–human race.
“I really do not know how I can live there or have my family there.”
Well, that’s easy, he does not have to.
“I thought about slavery and I could hear the cries of America’s victims in that place. If you listen, you can hear them”.
Please show me single slave owner living today. Last ones died out 4 generations ago.
“As for the leader of the current regime in power Obama chose not to comment.”
Current regime? There is no such a thing in US. Current government.
““We will be making changes,” he said.”
“Constitution is just words.”, says BHO.
These media wizards seem to forget that only slightly more than half of the country voted for Obama. Let’s not start the 4th Reich before we have to.
Bush IS president until January 20!
Every day we get closer to this. Watching the whole thing will send you running to the nearest gun shop:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTp_atr2G9E&feature=related
Consider the upside of letting Obama finish out Bush’s term. As a two term president he would be ineligible to run for re-election.
149.
A most excellent point!
Bush has kept an extremely low profile the last 4 months. The Republican convention was very telling at what an empty shell Bush and the GOP have become. Nowadays you get the feeling Bush is curled up in a fetal position in the Oval Office sobbing and occasionally motioning, weekly for Sec. Paulson to “Just take care of it Hank”.
Basically everybody is holdiong their breath until the inauguration. Matthews and a few others are turning blue quicker than the rest of us that’s all.
TruthFirst claims to have spoken personally with O. *THIS* is the kind of feedback our new president-elect is getting?!?
Either TruthFirst is a First-class liar, or Obama is a bigger idjut than I had ever taken him for.
L3: “Commons dilemmas are very difficult to solve. The best way, in theory, is to privatize the commons. This might work with resource dilemmas, but it’s hard to see how we might do that with manners. Another approach is to impose costs on offenders, perhaps through social sanction, although that’s something we’re loath to do in modern American society. Yet another approach is through regulation, but this generally runs afoul of free speech rights. Works great in Singapore, though. Finally, we can use authority as a means of controlling behavior; the problem here, though, is that we’ve spent the better part of 4 decades undermining the very notion of legitimate authority.”
I wonder if one might look at the situation in Iraq a little differently in light of your framing of bad manners. The seamy underside of culture in Iraq in particular and the Arab world in general strikes me as bad manners writ large. After all, what’s less mannerly than blowing up a bunch of people in a market?
And terrorism, too, is a tragedy of the commons, and has proven very difficult indeed to deal with successfully. Like bad manners, it seems that terrorism is most effectively dealt with in whole or in part through getting the broader society to reject the behavior.
And in the Arab world, it seems that places either have an iron hand of authority or very little at all. The latter seems to be where most of the terrorism originates.
People, occasionally including myself, have been uncomfortable characterizing the fight against terrorism as a “war”, but nobody that I’ve seen has been able to really put their finger on why. When you have 60 guys attacking you with RPGs and machine guns, it seems like there should be little question that you’re in a war. But maybe it’s just a case of really, really bad manners and a lack of caring about it. Or maybe that’s what war itself really is when you boil it down…but terrorism FEELS different somehow. I just don’t know how.
Hm. Interesting thought. Or not. YMMV.
NahnCee, of course TruthFirst (UntruthsCloseSecond) is not a liar. He/she/it has a “rich inner life”, populated at present by a real imaginary friend called Obama…. and having a hard time at present to tell apart this one from that one.
Only one sentence has been verifiably said by that one: “We will be making changes”, although I seriously doubt BHO would use “we” in the context. Unless BHO switched to regal plural.
One reason is that they are engaged in a very public display of their bad manners……..
to maybe desperately distract from the truth that remains to be seen……
of his legitimate bc?
or lack thereof?
hp, actually, their bad manners are just their inherent feature and the public display is due to their inability to contain emotions–they just have to gloat and deride at the same time to feed their self-esteem as they know that their rationality and logic were always lacking … but surely, they do try to find distractions and deploy them to take the focus from the bc issue.
For instance Lewinski is brought back to the rescue.
America Wants to Know!
Obama REFUSES to show his ORIGINAL birth certificate. Why?
http://americamustknow.com/default.aspx
SIGN THE PETITION TO FORCE BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA TO PRESENT HIS QUALIFICATIONS.
PETITION FOR PUBLIC RELEASE OF
BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA’S BIRTH CERTIFICATE
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=81550
The whole proposal of an un-elected (not elected), un-eligible (not eligible) idiot (intellectually deficient) should become the USA (United States of America: not Africa) because that’s what
certain unknown, unqualified and unquantified persons
engaged with media bombardment want is absurd,
ridiculous and dangerous…
The propaganda efforts by subversive “press” persons thus engaged
with the hostile take-over attempt (the Obamanables: those claiming
a Mr. Obama is a President elect for the USA) of the legitimate established US Federal Government, should be shot in their
heads (with guns) to their deaths for HIGH TREASON (a
crime punishable by death according to a current, yet
very old law)…
Other than that: the fact that they (?) would risk having their own liberties and lives ruined in order to attempt establishing someone
as stupid and criminal (lame) as Mr. Barack Obama goes to say just how dumb they are for seeking any attention to it at all…
The persons attempting to criminally appoint Mr. Obama as the next
president of anywhere (let alone, USA) only prove those deliberating such nonsense are a threat (criminally insane–incompetent–not intellectually sufficient for survival) to themselves and to
others: lock them up throw away the key?! Shoot shoot…