Italy and Germany: the deeper meaning of soccer
Actually the headline is intentionally misleading. I don’t believe soccer has meaning, and certainly not “deep” meaning. But, as an avid fan (you cannot have spent nearly fifty years in and around Italy, as I have, without getting, ahem, deeply involved in the minutiae of the game and its players), and a cultural historian, I’m greatly amused by the many pundits who analyze soccer in terms of national character, or national culture, or something. Most of the time, they not only fail to understand soccer, but embarrassingly expose their ignorance of culture and character as well.
Italy and Germany are great examples. Most folks expected Germany to win the semifinal game that the Italians won 2-1 (and were clearly better than the Germans). Those who follow the sport knew that Germany had better talent, and believed that “Germans are tougher than Italians.” They were right about talent, but wrong about toughness.
Whenever Italy plays Germany, the Italians expect to win and the Germans expect to lose. And why not? As Fox News’ Jamie Trecker noted before the match, “Germany have never beaten Italy in a game of this magnitude, either in a World Cup or in a European Championship. In fact, the last time they met in a knockout game, Italy ejected them from the very World Cup they were hosting.”
Does that surprise you? If so, it’s probably because you don’t understand either Italians or Germans very well. You probably think of them in terms of the usual stereotypes: Italians are charming people who live life to the fullest, great for celebrating and eating, great at cooking and winemaking, beautiful to look at, gorgeous country, wonderful weather, but not very good at war or projects that require organizing people into coherent units, whether big industrial projects or sporting events. Yes, lots of individual talent — so they’re good at Formula 1, for example — but you can push them around on battlefields or athletic fields.
It must be said that many Italians work hard to advance this stereotype. It serves their interests to be thought of as lovable, non-threatening guys. It encourages others to let down their guard. But Italy has a very long tradition — perhaps the longest and richest unbroken tradition in the world — of political assassination. And what country gave us the word “mafia” anyway? Aren’t mafias famously disciplined organizations? And would you say they are normally made up of charming, non-threatening guys?
If you would, you’d best head for the reeducation school in Corleone.
So at a minimum there’s a very tough subclass of Italians. And it’s not limited to the criminals. Italian politics may be superficially entertaining, but in reality it’s a blood sport, sometimes quite literally. You may remember that Aldo Moro, the most powerful politician in the country, was kidnapped and assassinated. You probably don’t remember the many judges, lawyers and others who were killed or kneecapped by the terrorists in the same decade. I do, since when I was a professor at Rome U., one of my colleagues, who happened to be the chief justice of the Italian supreme court, was gunned down on campus.
Quite aside from such violence, there are many once-powerful politicians who have been destroyed by “scandal,” as often as not conjured out of the Roman air (notice that Berlusconi, who has never been convicted of anything, was recently exonerated of yet another charge (fraud)).
Tough guys, in short. They have to be. Italy’s a tough place, and survival, let alone success, requires real toughness. That charm is a mask, as is much of the celebrated joie de vivre. You won’t get past that mask without a lot of effort and plenty of time with them. When I first got there, someone said that I should be slow in thinking I understood anything. “It’s a ten-year course,” he said. Actually I think it’s longer, at least it has been for me. But I’ve learned a good deal about that charming mask and about the underlying toughness. On the soccer field — to reprise our theme — they do not try to charm their opponents. They try to take them apart. If you watch Italy play soccer, watch their feet carefully, and you’ll see what they do to their opponents’ ankles. Rather like the picadores in the bullring.
Bravo Michael!
I would have never thought of that German mindset without your lead. And my family has lived in Germany, albeit 45 yrs ago.
Thank you for opening my eyes
yeah, life is full of surprises, you know?
The Italians and other southern European countries just beat the heck out of Merkel in the Euro battle. In an other subject: I have learned never to underestimate the stupidity of the populations of either Germany or the US.
Thank you Michael. I greatly enjoyed your thoughts on soccer and culture. Some American conservatives think we’re not supposed to like soccer. Well, I’m considered to the right of General Patton in some circles, yet I’ve loved soccer for many years. I’m no expert at it, and when I grew up in the USA it was far from being a popular sport for kids. But my Dad coached it at a small college, and he instilled an appreciation for it in me. And in high school, I enjoyed playing it with a bunch of Romanian immigrants, who were better than me but who appreciated having another warm body to kick the ball around with. Since I don’t have a good cable or satellite package, I’m not able to watch much of it anymore, but I get very excited when the World Cup comes around.
I’ve had many thrills watching great players such as Cruyff, Chinaglia, Rossi and Keegan. And I love watching well-executed strategy on the soccer field. Like many Americans, I don’t enjoy when teams play for a tie, or when a player fakes a penalty, etc., but there is more to soccer than many conservatives think.
Beckenbauer had more moves than a New York point guard.
I washed dishes for an Italian guy in his restaurant. He would make go table to table graciously thanking the clients and then come back and yell at me and the Mexicans.
He was like a character from movie. God did we laugh.
Team USA defeated England in the english debut in WC.
USa has beaten in official games: Brasil, Argentina, Spain.Italia and Germany in friendly games
Germany has never beaten Brasil either in an official game.They lost to brasil 3-2 in Germany during the Confederation Cup
Italy has won once in a semifinal in the Euro still passed three times. Once in a coin toss against te URSS.
They have won two WC following a match fixing sacandal
Germany seems starchy even by European means. Dynamic impulsive teams start with improving defence and take advantage. Totally making this up.
“I think most contemporary Germans are ashamed. They know what the others think of them, and they’d prefer to think of themselves–and have others think of them — as something else. As Europeans, say. But not stereotypical Germans, the sort who, left to their own devices, will kill again, because that’s what “Germans” do.”
But that was your generation, the youngs have no more such complexes, they even ignore that Hitler was such a bad guy
“HALF of German teenagers do not know that Adolf Hitler was a dictator, according to a survey that organisers said showed a “shocking” lack of awareness of the country’s recent past among the younger generation.”
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/teenagers-ignorance-of-hitler-shocks-germany/story-fnb64oi6-1226411919941
“as the other Europeans are asking Frau Merkel to take charge and dictate policy to the others. ”
Hmm, not really, none appreciated her austerity diktats, and punishment menaces for those that don’t comply
we just would like that Germany doesn’t blocate ECB and EMS funds (as if they only were ment to serve Germany when she needs them, and that she used abundly when she overpassed the Maastricht debt criterium by GDP) ), with the Inflation threat as a escuse, as if we were still in Weimar regime, knowing that a bit of inflation absorbs debt !
Of course the Germans have no desire to take charge of the Europeans, only what is German finds their interest.
Italians had a motivation to beat Germany, they had a revenge to make on Merkel policies, which Monti magnificantly shaked down too.
Since reunification, the “Ossies” lead the german policies again, like during the Kaisers regime.
Thanks Michael! One of my guilty pleasures is world cup futbol. I played real football at a pretty high level and have always been amazed by the little guys and their foot work. Being a lineman I am always watching the footwork so when I read what you said about the Italian ankle biting it brought back some great memories of how we used to do that to our opponents in line play.
Sweet baby Jesus! Marie. You need more wine and less whine, really becoming a one note harpmonica player…
sorry, since a couple of years rattles replaced harpmonicas in Europe, didn’t you notice?
probably that, for you, the tea-partiers are whining too !
Italy beat the crap out of England – result, no score. Germany played Italy even – result, a 2 to 1 loss. This is the nature of soccer. Italy was not clearly better than Germany that day and Balotelli is anything but representative of an Italian zeitgeist.
Yes, he could have used a better vehicle than soccer. Will he rewrite after Spain beats Italy today?
The real lesson of this tournament is Portugal, who lost the best match to date (against Spain) on penalties after 30 min. of extra time, and lost the second best match 1-0 (against Germany) despite holding their own for most of the game then dominating the last 15 min. Never has a German side looked so ragged. Poor Portugal — though it’s a good lesson for the whiners among us.
Not only does Balotelli not fit the mold (you can be forgiven for thinking of George Sanders saying ‘big buck Mandingo’), neither does Germany’s Gomez.
Soccer’s a great, but weird game, due to the difficulty of scoring a goal. It’s not like American sports where dominating the flow of play usually results in a win. As just one of a zillion examples, I remember many years ago seeing a much better Flamengo team outplay Botofogo the entire game and lead 1-0 with 2 min. left. Botofogo got 2 lucky garbage goals at the end and they won a game 2-1 they got stomped on.
I think this is one reason Americans don’t like the game – it’s not an effort gets rewards type of game compared to ours – not as much a meritocracy. Our games are more geared towards scoring and the better effort will usually get the win – that also means an upset is usually more deserved – in soccer, one moment of luck or skill can alter the whole game more than in other sports. The average result of the average soccer game is probably less indicative of what actually happened on the pitch than any other major sport. However, that uncertainty has its own rewards and it is definitely a fun game because in the end, a goal is a goal.
You do see that in American football. How many times has a team dominated a game and only leads by a score then the other team gets a break and pulls out the win. Just as in American football you have teams employ the bend-not-break defense, I suppose England would be a good example. The Italians dominated but England played good enough defense conbined with some breaks to get the game to PKs.
You of course do see that in American football but far less than in soccer which was my point. But sometimes teams have spectacular runs on luck. New England made it all the way to the Superbowl in ’85 by beating superior teams because they got an unbelievable 16 turnovers in 3 playoff games. NE didn’t get that against the Bears and got pummeled in a game they never should’ve been in. Sports are full of weird stuff like that; the uncertainty adds to the fun.
The uncertainty is always a big wild card, a key reason soccer is the world #1 sport, and probably the best spectator sport (many other reasons too). Why the game would be unworthy of a cultural historian’s study in this dumbed-down age of bread and circuses is a mystery.
IMO there’s no such an animal as a bad Italian team. The main issue is which team will decide to show up on the day and whether Jekyll will dominate Hyde. For years, Italy played a tough, defensive game that was deadly to watch but often very effective, when it didn’t dissolve into red cards and violence, even against strong S American teams playing full-on attack. Today’s Italian team is more fluid, and sometimes imitates Spain, perhaps the sincerest form of flattery.
The Italian team is certainly better than England (no offense worthy of the name, just a load of crude centers), and the result against Germany was lucky but no travesty. Spain is another matter. Spain had trouble staying awake against a frightened French team that froze in the headlights, but they’ll be fully awake for today’s game and, if on form, unstoppable.
Nice touch, mentioning Braudel at the end, one of the best modern historians.
But his best work (my opinion) is ”Civilization & Capitalism 15th-18th Century” 3 volumes, of which, to my mind, vol I ”The Structures of Everyday Life” is a masterpiece.
“Structures of Everyday Life” by faaaar the best. Should be required reading in the multicultural university universe. (ouch)
Ouch indeed.
Great call. I hope I still have those volumes. I tried to read them a long time ago and given the particular school of history Braudel represents I had trouble following the book although I did understand his main thesis especially his differentiaion between market economics and the commanding heights of the economy that he called capitalism. One caveat is he fell with love with long term economic cycles, Kondratief, etc.. Those supposed cycles have been debunked by economic research in the recent decades. For example, economist and statisticians have been able to replicate these cycles when the underlying data generation mechanism is purely random process.
Michael K & Michael Hoskins.
I read ”The Structures of Everyday Life” in the original French then, some years later, read the English translation. It is a masterpiece in both languages.
You may find of interest another excellent history, ”A History of Private Life – from Pagan Rome to Byzantium.” General Editors: Philippe Aries & Georges Duby, Paul Veyne, Editor, translated by Arthur Goldhammer.
Philippe Aries is a wonder.
Yes, he is.
I re-read ”A History of Private Life” every year & every time, discover some new insight.
The willingness of Germans to sacrifice themselves out of guilt for past world war aggressions is similar to US progressives’ guilt over slavery. If we could make it clear how their forced promotion of loans to those who cant afford them trigged our great recession, maybe they’d roll over for 70 years too.
Indeed,
I have spoken to German conservatives who are sick of being told how “evil” Germany is because of their bad bout with Hitler and the third Reich.
Most Germans I dealt with were very bright, very meticulous, very astute, very caring even. But also collectively pissed off over what their apologists have done.
Let Germany be Germany. Not “Deutschland uber alles” no. But they engineered some of the finest equipment ever built. Still do. Airbus is a fine machine but without the German component, it would suck. Without the US component, likewise. The avionics are US-designed and built, BTW.
The French can do marvelous things as well but need to realize they DON’T need the socialist construct of fascist marketing. They are so bloody afraid of market competition, they use their socialists to fight the political fight in the market.
I believe it will eventually come to fisticuffs in the form of an all-out economic war. The bureaucrats have had their turn, mucked it all up and the world is still demanding better products for less money. On that basis alone, they either have to comply or miss out.
The other choice, of course is that for a period of time, the status quo in materials continues with the “best” being reserved for the elites while the pogues are kept at the bottom, forced to build the “best” for the elites. This has been tried many times over and the pogues decide to “pretend to work” while the “elites” pretend to pay them.
The end result is violent upheaval or, at the least, severe unrest.
In the US, we’ve managed to avoid that with capitalism. However, reading David Limbaugh’s book which is an anthology of the socialism that Obama has foisted on us, the end result again cannot be avoided. When elitists force “equality” on the masses, the masses respond. The best and brightest of their kind (me) get fed up, we tend to have a tantrum of our own which includes walking off and doing our own thing. When the elitists try to punish us by confining us, we fight back in a way they first do not understand, and then try to control. Think William Wallace. For perhaps the first time in my life I fully comprehend my contrary nature.
I am sick of being told what to do by assholes. And, there are a great many of them. They think they know better than me, dismiss my own intelligence, refuse to help me because they fear that if I know as much as them, I will overcome them and realize their own inadequacy.
So, yes, I’m BETTER than them. Because in MY hands, the world would be a better place and “fairness” would result as a matter of those who compete would find balance rather than social justice. Balance over fairness, I say.
” Airbus is a fine machine but without the German component, it would suck. Without the US component, likewise. The avionics are US-designed and built, BTW.”
Really?
http://www.airbus.com/company/worldwide-presence/airbus-in-germany/
Germany makes wings and assemblages, components are manufactured either in the 4 main shareholders’ countries, and or in India, China, Philippines, and the US.
Motors are either Roll-Royce, French SNECMA, or US made (it’s a companies choice when they order a plane)
-http://www.snecma.com/-moteurs-civils,9-.html
“Throughout the 1960s, firms like France’s Sud Aviation and the British Aircraft Corporation planned new aircraft with the aim of catering for the growth in demand for air travel. Sud Aviation’s Galion was to be a 200-seat widebody, while BAC talked of a similar-capacity BAC 2-11. Britain’s Hawker Siddeley Aviation planned a twin-engine stretch version of the Trident. Hawker Siddeley Aviation also carried out joint studies with French firms Nord Aviation and Breguet for a widebody named the HBN 100. Yet it was becoming clear that if all these aircraft were built, none of them would sell enough to make it viable. They would be competing against one another in the same market. Only if Europe combined the considerable talents and expertise which existed in individual companies and nations and put them into one aircraft to compete directly against the Americans – who held more than 80 per cent of the world market – could there be any hope of success.”
-http://www.airbus.com/company/history/the-narrative/early-days-1967-1969/
“The French can do marvelous things as well but need to realize they DON’T need the socialist construct of fascist marketing. They are so bloody afraid of market competition, they use their socialists to fight the political fight in the market.”
yet, socialists in France are what SPD is in Germany, social-democrats, they aren’t afraid of market competition, just that they are for social justice too.
you certainly don’t know, during the last french socialist govrnment, between 1997 and 2002, France had a equilibrated budget, sovereign debt lowered, it was with Jospin as PM and DSK as a Finances minister
So did the USA under Clinton. In fact, so did most Western economies. Such speculative equilibriums are false and bubble based and collpase after the bubble has been burst, in this case the internet bubble. It had not a thing to do with socialist policies. Artificially inflated equity valuations were the driving force behind the perceived economic boom as artificially inflated real estate valuations led us to the ’08 bust. Five will get you ten that Holland also had an economic surplus before the tulip bubble exploded.
Soccer has no meaning? What’s this then?
During the 2006 World Cup, there were people from everywhere displaying their national flags on their cars. Naturally some of the (lefty/green) Gutmenschen questioned whether Germans should also display flags, since this could be a slippery slope toward renewed nationalism. There is an element of the politically correct in Germany that can hear any dog whistle of revived Nazi sentiments but are absolutely tone deaf when it comes to neo-commies. Of course, these same people fail to hear the anti-Americanism that prevails among media types. Their condescension is unbearable.
This overreaction makes it difficult for Germans to develop a health patriotism in 20 year olds who just want their team to win a soccer game. And yes, there are similarities to the protests against the Hallmark cards that referred to black holes.
That Hallmark moment should be put in the stupidity hall of fame. Reason 1,484,756 why the NAACP should be put out to pasture.
Another aspect of the soccer debate that remains stubbornly uncovered by people who are deep into soccer is the commedia dell’arte continuously staged on the playfield. It is sickening to watch players jump their opponents and then collapse in perfectly choreographed falls, followed by expressions of unbearable pain, and concluded by a calm walk after the free kick. We see it only from certain teams representing the countries that dominate financial pages: Greece Spain Portugal and Italy, more than others. Coincidence, you bet.
The points made about Italian and German national characters ring true. And the parts about the game of soccer were useful in delineating their differences. But I thank God that Soccer will NEVER, EVER be a popular professional sport in the USA and so far the vast, vast majority of Americans agree with me. I spent some time trying to get into the game, watching the European games PBS would air. I stopped watching them because I couldn’t understand what was so exciting about erratic ball handling. It was like watching people TRYING to lose the ball to prolong the game. I played soccer many years ago and liked it, but as a spectator sport it leaves way too much to be desired. I’ll take pre-season Football over the Euro finals any day—I’ll even throw in the World Cup while I’m at it.
Terrific article, thanks. Now if someone could just explain why my team, the Netherlands, is so good (for a tiny country) yet consistently fails come clutch time….
Some general questions:
1: Does one have to be “tougher” to succeed in Southern Italy than the more prosperous Northern half?
2: For me, tough = lack of trust so explains why family firms still dominate the Italian economy while Germany has world class corporations.
3: If toughness is a requirement to succeed then a large portion of your most educated and hardest working population will have to move abroad to succeed, aka nerds, in a world economy where brain power is the key to economic growth. What does an socially inept Italian nerd do in an economic-political structure they have zero chance in surviving in? I suppose move to Germany or the US.
1. i think toughness is a general requirement for success (however genius and luck can trump toughness), north or south;
2. Italy has world class corporations too. Pirelli, Luxottica, Alenia, etc. And didn’t Fiat just take over Chrysler?
3. I have long advised young entrepreneurial Italians to emigrate, especially if they come from the “wrong” families. I suggested US, Canada, Israel, Australia, New Zealand. Read my book on Naples and you’ll see why.
Mr Ledeen:
The “mild mannered” economic professor Italian PM taught Merkel a lesson in Machiavellian power politics. Nice case study for your article.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/german-dominance-in-doubt-after-summit-defeat-a-842056.html
yes, but raising more debt to resolve an excess of debt does not strike me as the sort of thing Machiavelli would have approved, heh…
But raising more debt on Italy and Spain sovereign states was Merkel and Schaeuble position, while Monti wants that the banks gets liquidities without that their warranting must be beared by the states, like it was imposed on Greece, Portugal, Ireland before, that since then dived into a harsher recession, and that the interests of the loans add more debt, that they can’t repay
“What if Germany were forced out of the euro?”
“It is Germany that refuses even to talk about mutual debt and banking guarantees. It is Germany that insists on self-defeating fiscal austerity and intolerable political conditions for the debtor countries. It is Germany that vetoes quantitative easing by the ECB, which could cap bond yields and relieve deflationary debt traps. And it is Germany that makes the other euro countries uncompetitive, discourages devaluation of the euro against the dollar and refuses even to relax its own domestic fiscal policies to reduce its trade surplus and support growth.”
” it is not impossible to imagine a club of peripheral and secondary EU states saying to Germany, “You’d better leave, we’ll be better without you.” Kaletsky points out that while such a request could not, of itself, compel Germany to leave, the other states could make life impossible for Germany and unacceptable to the German public by driving the ECB down a hugely growth centric, inflationary road in the teeth of German opposition. Pushing the ECB into quantitative easing would do it nicely.”
http://www.mindfulmoney.co.uk/wp/qfinance/what-if-germany-were-forced-out-of-the-euro/
Monti knows how politics and finances work, Merkel is only interested on surviving as a politician, no matter how much the southern club suffers
“Germans Taking the Wrong Lessons From History of Default”
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-06-28/germans-taking-the-wrong-lessons-from-history-of-default.html
Good to see I’ve reached the same conclusions after all (11 years in Italy)
Yes, Germans are kinda legalistic, they love to do the right thing, but they confuse the “right thing” with “what the law says”, and yes! They are totally bad at improvising -perhaps because there is no law to tell them “thou shalt improvise” or so.
OTOH, Italians are a total mess (except perhaps in the border with German countries like Trieste or Bolzano), they don’t even pretend they have to wait for the green light in order to go on in the traffic (be it people or car’s traffic). But they are good at coming up with some creative way to solve problems (specially if the “problem” is the law).
At the beginning, I was also surprised to see Italians winning over Germans in soccer, but now I understand well.
German sense of precision, punctuality and the sense that they have to learn from History is the best of them, and they will prevail in the long run with that, even if they keep losing some soccer matches.
Dylan Moran on Germans: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoLIU2NI66w
I was in Salerno when Italy beat Germany. Even though I’m not a soccer fan I had a great time watching the game with a large group of Italians. They are enthusiastic fans!
Your article reminds of the old joke. Italians are the toughest fighters in the world, unless you put them in uniform.
Michael, when we talk about toughness and violence! I think there is no tough and terrorist people more than the Arabs and Muslims. No other people quite so determinedly violent and pitiless as the people of the Arab and Muslim world, where violence is a chronic mental condition of Arab mentality. In Arab and Muslim societies there are horrible things almost happens every single day. It’s the most heinous crimes and even more hatred than political assassinations or the Mafia crimes that rarely happens. it’s “Honor Killings or Washing Dishonor and Revenge.” This kind of crimes today has reached into the heart of the western world.
The Arab propensity for violence and barbarity, is as old as the Arab people themselves. These features have become their character and their nature. In fact the real nature of Arabs and Muslims a very savage and cruel, yet, the European Death Mentality was the most savage and cruel mentality in the human history, they who tried to WIPE THE JEWISH PEOPLE off the surface of the earth. while today, the Islamists and their leaders behave likewise, including Iranians Mullahs!? Yes, today ALL the Islamists wish the massive destruction of Israel and America!!!
However, in person I call to the DESTRUCTION of the dumb’s civilization (Arab and Islamic civilization), because that culture is a culture of violence and terrorism. This civilization has become indeed forms real threat to the Western world and its values!?
For example, the vast majority of Arabs and Muslims, including on the top of list is so-called “our Intelligentsia elite and our pundits and leaders” when they talking and debating with others, making gestures and movements utterly similar to fascists, talking like a madmen with a lot of shouts and empty threats.
Please see this disgraceful and disgusting video, it’s just a few days ago “Jordanian Deputy pulling out his pistol in the face of his opponent on the air.” This proves how much the people of that culture are barbarians and mad! So, Welcome to the madness world, welcome to the culture of throwing shoes and spit, and welcome to the world of barbarism (aka the Arab and Muslim world.)
http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/07/06/224870.html
An ARAB IDIOT throws shoes at Mr. President George W. Bush
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjnMsiKuGXM
And recently an prominent Lebanese political who pro-Syrian regime hits and insults in the worst words, the Syrian dissident who lives in London since the early eighties. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Omliz-3i9k