Gibson Guitar Corp. agreed to settle charges that it illegally purchased and imported ebony wood from Madagascar and rosewood and ebony from India, the Justice Department said today.
The company will pay a $300,000 fine under a criminal enforcement agreement that defers prosecution for criminal violations of the Lacey Act. Another $50,000 fine will go to the National Fish and Wildlife Foundation “to be used to promote the conservation, identification and propagation of protected tree species used in the musical instrument industry and the forests where those species are found.”
Since May 2008, it has been illegal under the Lacey Act to import into the United States plants and plant products that have been harvested and exported in violation of the laws of another country. Raids of Gibson factories by federal authorities led to concerns from some guitar owners that they could also be found in violation and pursued for having instruments made of illegal wood.
Last August, Gibson officials accused the government of “bullying” the company. “Gibson has complied with foreign laws and believes it is innocent of any wrong doing. We will fight aggressively to prove our innocence.”
Under the agreement with the Justice and Interior departments, Gibson will also withdraw its civil claim to retrieve $261,844 worth of Madagascar ebony seized in a raid.
“As a result of this investigation and criminal enforcement agreement, Gibson has acknowledged that it failed to act on information that the Madagascar ebony it was purchasing may have violated laws intended to limit overharvesting and conserve valuable wood species from Madagascar, a country which has been severely impacted by deforestation,” said Assistant Attorney General Moreno. “Gibson has ceased acquisitions of wood species from Madagascar and recognizes its duty under the U.S. Lacey Act to guard against the acquisition of wood of illegal origin by verifying the circumstances of its harvest and export, which is good for American business and American consumers.”
The criminal enforcement agreement includes a detailed statement of facts describing the conduct for which Gibson accepts and acknowledges responsibility. Gibson received four shipments of Madagascar ebony fingerboard blanks from its supplier between October 2008 and September 2009.
$300K is a pittance of what the legal fees were going to run. Sadly, these days it’s less about being guilty or innocent than doing the math and deciding what you can afford to defend. Just ask anyone who’s been hit with a frivolous lawsuit or been targeted by EPA, OSHA, Environmental Groups and so on.
I want to register my agreement with this and other statements. I simply have no idea whether or not Gibson Guitar is guilty, for I have no faith in an increasingly authoritarian and dogmatic prosecutorial establishment whose basic mindset very well may be incompatible with pronciples of American liberty. I certainly am of the opinion that there are few Americans today the prosecutorial arms of the state and federal governments could not find a way to ruin if for some reason they so chose.
Thus, despite whatever Gibson may have signed, I am not yet convinced the government has done anything but engage in tyrannical-lke actions There simply needs to be a check on prosecutors that prevents the full force of three hundred millions, in the form of the total resources of the United States, from being deployed on a few private citizens merely because a few non-representative and perhaps self-interested government lawyers decide it is what needs to be done.
Perhaps because the vast majority of the commenters are here are universally denouncing the government prosecutors, maybe they should call up our bosses and try to have us fired, the way the Zimmerman prosecutor did with Alan Derschowitz. For by saying that the government is not always pure, could they not argue we are impeding justice? But of course, that would be a little *too* draconian, and thus it is ludicrous to speculate about.
Or, at least right now it is.
First, your take on Zimmerman and Dershowitz is wrong; Dershowitz sided with Zimmerman and criticized the blantantly political prosecution and the hack prosecutor.
If you are indeed a government prosecutor as your “fire us” implies, you are either one of this malignant junta or at least someone vetted by them and found acceptable, you are a keep your head down longtime holdover, itself a sad commentary on you, or you are somebody they’ve missed so far and your time is coming. I actually think you are neither of those things and are merely a troll.
No person of principle can work in a position with ministerial or prosecutorial authority in a Democrat administration longer than it takes to find a position where you are not responsible for carrying out their corrupt practices or get your affairs in order and get out of the government. If you consider yourself an honest person and you are still working for them after almost four years, you are either only employable by the executive branch, a coward, or you are sadly self-deceived. If you are on this board because you consider yourself a conservative and a principled person, you need to give your notice and get out of this evil administration.
Art Chance: 1, Reading Comprehension: 0
Try it again, slck.
Art Chance: 1, Reading Comprehension: 0
Try it again, slick
And obviously my mad spelling skilz could use a little improvement today.
I tried to reply to myself and correct my misreading of what you said about Dershowitz; you are right that the prosecutor, not Zimmerman, did indeed call for Dershowitz’ dismissal. Somehow it got caught up in my filters or in moderation.
I stand by the rest.
Grow a backbone “anonymous” and post a real name before spouting off with your inanities.
Exactly, I couldn’t agree more.
The real issue is the govt, ie; those who represent the govt., which especially in this corrupt racist bigoted marxist Obama administration case, no longer pursues equal justice as prescribed in and under the US Constitution from that unbiased unprejudiced position. Thus because of this, and their no longer hidden but openly naked bias, prejudice and corruption, they have lost any and all legal, moral, and virtuous ground, for which they, the govt prosecutor- at what ever level in society, once stood with the people and the Nation. They no longer have prosecutorial integrity, and have lost all confidence and trust that the American people, aka citizenry, once had in them.
This is not about political Party affiliation, as it goes far beyond political lines, although in this case, it is clearly about radical liberal motivated Obama politics..
This is about the issue itself of corruption and bias in govt. and it’s DOJ prosecutors and their politically motivate corrupt policies.
6 Nov., cannot come son enough, for a change in this govt is only a first step, afterwhich, the govt needs to be cleaned of all the corrupt elements- ie; politicians, buearacrats, attorneys, prosecutors, judges, etc.. if they people are to have any faith in govt again.
Bill Clinton did precisely that, and got away with it too.
You know what the difference between Government and Organized Crime(work with me…pretend they’re different)?
Scale…
There you have it. It ends in a shakedown, which was the intent of the feds in the first place. Gibson coughs up a suitable amount of dough (for now), and the feds go find some other non-progressive schmuck who needs the screws put to him. I don’t blame Gibson. They just want to make and sell guitars. There was no way they were ever going to win this one. $350,000 (plus whatever legal fees they have incurred) is better than being put out of business and/or thrown in jail. But let’s not lose sight of the fact that the only reason Gibson was targeted was because they failed to support the progs (i.e. failed to cough up the shakedown money) from the start. It has nothing to do with exotic or endangered wood.
Look up what the government did to ABNER SCHOENWETTER using the Lacy law.
That made is legal for the government to use extorsion.
You are correct! This is nothing but a high-tech shakedown.
Pure Extortion.
The ONLY REASON this administration went after Gibson is that they had refused to make any substantial CORPORATE CONTRIBUTION to the Prezzie’s campaign funds.
100% correct…
And the really scary part is, most of the cogs in the machinery grinding GIbson to the breaking point could care less about the principals involved. They have no personal axe to grind, no passion, no CARE if Right or Wrong, Justice or Injustice is being served.
They are like the Cops out in the hot sun, mindlessly raising revenue for the Machine with bogus tickets and fake fines. No reward for them, just drones filing papers as directed.
Whats that called? The Banality of evil?
They are also non-union.
The standard Democrat government shakedown! And what percentage of the paid staff of the National Fish and Wildlife Foundation do you think are Republicans or legitimate NPs? We can be certain that the staff of the foundation fully understands that some significant portion of that $50K is to go either to the Democrat Party or to specific Democrat candidates. Of course, they’re already “titheing” to the Democrats from their taxpayer supported salaries.
Every Republican government in the Country should go through their federally funded agencies with a fine toothed comb and root out all the federally grant funded or contract supported activities are nothing more than sinecures for Democrat activists or money laundries for moving taxpayer funds to Democrat front groups.
That would result in a shootin’ war Art.
Dont you know you can fuss with a dog while their eatin’?
What you describe is the Wizard behind the Curtain, something we’re not allowed to know exists, and if we DO know, we are afraid to mention out loud.
Everyone is AFRAID to follow the money, just like they’re afraid to get an AIDS test or see a dentist….
Because it dont hurt TOO too bad right now, but geez its just too frightening to contemplate what you’ll have to go through if “the worst” is diagnosed.
Maybe the pain will go away by itself if I stop poking at it, thats the mentality.
Cause nobody wants a shootin’ war over it (yet)
“That would result in a shootin’ war Art.”
It would if you did it at the federal level, but that isn’t what I advocate – yet.
We have over half of the governors and legislatures. All we have to do is look at where our money is being spent, including federal money that we appropriate into state budgets. Most money spent on training government employees goes to Democrats and Democrat front companies. Most money spent on public construction goes to union contractors using project labor agreements. Republicans won the battle of being able to contract out some government service and then lost the war when the Democrats formed all sorts of for-profit and non-profit companies for the express purpose of providing the contracted services – and as private companies they’re free from all those government rules and disclosure requirements. Practically every program to train under or unemployed workers goes to some old union goon who never trains anybody and most of whose enrollees don’t exist. Most grants don’t get properly accounted for. Most contracts don’t get performed. The grant and contract managers and auditors know that if they do more than just make sure that there is a paper report that is facially plausible they’ll be on the hit list when a Democrat takes over. Even private audit firms are reticent to perform an adequate audit of these people because they know they risk being blacklisted. The reality is that governmental accountants only deal with governments and they’re really susceptible to being frozen out if they make waves. It goes on but you get sick after awhile. If people really knew how government works, they’d be shooting.
There are ways to do it at the state and local level, but you can’t write checks with your mouth you can’t cash with your a**. You have to be willing to put some people in jail, even some of your own “friends.” I learned from trying to muck out the place after a two-term Democrat governor that the old Mau-mau tactic of taking out leaders works just as well on the right as on the left. Find and fix your target and take them out noisily; you won’t have to do it often. You won’t change people’s minds, but you’ll make them shut up and behave if they watch a few of their pals frogmarched out never to return.
Interesting idea. Worth pursuing.
“you’ll make them shut up and behave if they watch a few of their pals frogmarched out never to return”
And a little “mound of fresh dirt” would be nice too.
sad …freedom and the rule of law are dead.
The Justice Department should go after their leader first! How about raiding AG Holders office FIRST? Fix the corruption then let’s go after the companies that are “violating” international laws??
And what are the Feds going to do with the Madagascar ebony seized in the raid? They can return it to Madagascar, which will only sell it to someone else, burn it (just think of the carbon released!), or auction it off. (I suspect the folks at Martin would want it.)
Yep. A despicable shake-down. Between legal fees, the fines, and the loss of expensive wood, I figure a million dollars. And how much productivity (and jobs) were lost during this affair?
Well here’s a trend.
An iconic American company, whose owner just happens to be a Republican contributor and supporter, is hammered into submission by the Feds who, using a strained interpretation of overly intrusive environmental/import regulations, stage an armed raid on the company and, as collateral damage, it looks like Madagascar–a country which, I’m guessing, is not swimming in dough–has lost a lot of business.
True Chicago style.
I was thinking the same thing. If Madigascar can’t sell their wood to Gibson, they’ll sell it to someone else (it’s pretty expensive stuff) or they’ll burn it for fuel. Either way Fed staff punks get paid and the poor get poorer.
The Feds are already going hard after Adelson. He promised to donate too much to for the Chicago gang to allow him to exist.
better buy that les paul now before it costs $3000
A decent Les Paul already costs $3000.00. Do you know anything about Gibson, or do you just enjoy the opportunity to shoot your mouth off?
you can get a good les paul for under 2k atm
go bark up another tree
Daxypoo, maybe your idea of a decent Les Paul and mine are different. What exactly do you play? I have a ’74 20th anniversary Les Paul Custom, although I don’t play it much anymore because I prefer my ’60s ES335, which I play through a ’65 blackface Vibrolux. The only new Les Pauls that I think compare to them are the custom shop ’59 Les Paul Standard replicas that have a street price of around $6000.
Off the meds today greenie? Ease up a bit, you’ll feel better and might make a friend.
So this is what Ted Nugent was referring to last night during his rant against the National Fish and Wildlife Foundation.
I suggest the Republican leadership put forth a bill that prohibits the transfer of any fines to any non-government agency. All fines should go straight into the treasury.
The name of this front group is absolutely ridiculous in the degree they focus on a particular issue.
Were they created before or after the feds started taking an interest in Gibson?
How exactly is ebony wood endangered? Plant a few more trees and the problem fixes itself.
How does any species become “endangered”?
You get somebody or some group to claim this, gin up some supposedly “scientific” studies to back up the endangered claim—the supposedly “endangered” Arctic Polar Bears of a few years ago (and featured in Democratic campaign propaganda films), “endangered” apparently based on the observation of one government “scientist” of four supposedly “drowned” Polar Bears he observed from the air (not actually examined or autopsied to determine their causes of death, of course), spun into the claim that this was a sign of the possible decline in Polar Bear populations because of drowning deaths (due to the melting ice pack, presumably because of Global Warming)leading to the subsequent government declaration of a few years ago that Polar Bears were now an “endangered” species–comes to mind.
And, voila, you have the basis for the government to move in to regulate and ban to its heart’s content.
I note that the government scientists involved in the research for and publication of the article dealing with these supposedly “drowned” bears are reportedly under investigation (see http://www.humanevents.com/2011/08/11/global-warming-link-to-drowned-polar-bears-melts-under-searing-fed-probe-2/ ).
The possible impacts?
Well, ask the farmers whose formerly extremely productive farmland has reverted back into an arid, unproductive desert, and the 40,000 formerly employed farm workers in California’s Central Valley, whose livelihoods were reportedly destroyed—billions of dollars in profits down the drain, and 35% unemployment in an area that used to grow a reported 25% of the nation’s fruits and vegetables–when the Federal government decreed that the absolutely vital irrigation water they needed to farm there was cut off, via the Endangered Species Act, to preserve a small minnow-sized fish, the supposedly “endangered” delta smelt.
You can see where all of this is headed, and you might want to connect the dots with what some think is Obama’s second term “spreading the wealth” “Regionalism” agenda, of “consolidating” (i.e. looting) the suburbs with the cities (the relatively wealthy suburbs to pick up the tab for bankrupt, indigent, dysfunctional inner cities). Such consolidation in part justified by the environmental goal of preserving the “wild lands” outside the cities (see http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1595230920/ref=nosim/nationalreviewon) .
“If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara desert, in five years there’d be a shortage of sand”
Milton Friedman
yaa – Global Warming? hell, just turn on the AC
Why is everyone who comments automatically dismissive of the possibility the company was buying illegal wood? Should there not be repercussions for illegal actions? 300K is not that much money, the fine is only an enforcement mechanism. The idea that this was politically motivated has no basis in reality. You people are running on speculation and conspiracy.
Gibson has an annual revenue in excess of 60 Million dollars. If they wanted to defend in court they could have afforded it. If they settled it was because they were going to lose. I could understand if you do not like the law, but assuming it is political motivated prosecution is ridiculous.
You are either hopelessly naive or a troll. The regulatory shakedown has been a staple of Democrat Administrations at all levels of government since the ’60s at least. Its most common form was the shakedown discrimination suits but that has resulted in requiring actual proof of discrimination so the company has some chance of prevailing and enough do to make it a hard go for the poverty pimps even when they have Democrat government assistance.
It has morphed into other agencies and the Democrat front non-profits, especially the greenies and organized labor. EPA and USDOL are just arms of the environmental groups and organized labor during a Democrat administration.
You could be right that Gibson was violating the law, but violating the law is OK if you give money to the Democrats. Democrats are good people. Good people don’t do bad things. Therefore Democrats (and people who give them money) don’t do bad things.
Sure, yes, Gibson could have had their day in court
You mean in front of the same court system that has ruled that your personal property can be taken so that someone else can maybe someday build a casino or other development. The same court system that has ruled that you do not have a right to defend yourselve against agents of the state attacking you in error. The same court system that just ruled that obamacare is constitutional. Yeah, right.
Sure, little Gibson could have fought back — after their assets were frozen and materials to create fresh income confiscated, and never knowing when the next raid would occur.
Their opponent of course can spend unlimited amounts of money, select a judge that is favorable and, at the last resort, arrest every Gibson employee on some charge or other. The laws are so that everyone, everyday violates some rule, law, regulation or other.
I worked in a federal court, and cases are randomly assigned, you do not pick the Judge. This is also the same court that gave us Bush v. Gore and Citizens United (essentially the same court).
“Why is everyone who comments automatically dismissive of the possibility the company was buying illegal wood?”
Because they had paperwork showing the purchase was legal, and the country of origin said it was a legitimate, legal purchase.
And why didn’t they waste the money to defend themselves? Because that $60,000,000 is nothing compared to the $3,000,000,000,000 the feds take in; the expense of fighting the government could break them, but the feds wouldn’t notice the expense at all.
Show me a copy of Madagascar saying the wood was legal harvested.
Why is everyone who comments automatically dismissive of the possibility the company was buying illegal wood? Should there not be repercussions for illegal actions? 300K is not that much money
Because Gibson was not tried and found guilty by due process, that’s why.
The armed raid of Gibson’s plant and seizure of Gibson’s materials by USFWS and the corrupt DOJ was performed by the same agency which ‘tried’ the company and found it guilty. There was no public trial before an impartial judge and jury of Gibson’s peers, no presumption of innocence – just one agency behind closed doors, with overwhelming legions of taxpayer-paid legal forces, acting as complainant, sheriff, judge, jury and executioner.
Or more clearly stated, the Obama admin used the rules of Chicago politics and overwhelming Federal powers to interpret a badly-written law to shake down Gibson into a fine and a ‘confession’.
Nice little business you’ve got there, be a shame if anything happened to it. We’ll go easy on you this time, just sign this confession and it’ll all be over.
They chose not to go to trial. If they wanted their day in court they could have had it. What dont you understand about taking a plea agreement. They could afford the lawyers, and if the govt did not have any credible evidence, had the case quickly dismissed. If we look at Occam’s razor, they likely settled because they were guilty, and if they had gone to court and lost, the penalty would have been much higher.
Does anyone have any proof that Gibson did not give to any Democrats, or is this just another assumption?
The reality is that this allegation against Gibson could easily take years to resolve costing well over a million dollars plus in legal fees and expenses-and they might still lose in court. The wood products seized by the government had to be considered a loss by Gibson at any rate.
Does anyone think you can go to another country and buy a substantial quantity of any product that requires trucking, shipping, and inspection by the host country as well as U. S. Customs as some sort of subverted transaction?
Gibson appears to have been caught up in some regulatory snafu, coincidentally enforced by the Obama Administration.
Does anyone think a fine paid to the government should also include another fine paid to some lefty approved cause? This whole thing seems unjust to me.
Might wish to read it again. That’s $300,000K, plus $50,000, plus the value of the confiscated wood, plus the court costs and cost of defending attornies. A million dollar loss may sound like nothing to you, but to a for profit company it’s a bunch. Besides that, haven’t you heard that the govt. has the ace in the hole of threatening prison for CEO’s and owners of privately owned companies, if they lose in their costly court cases?
“Why is everyone who comments automatically dismissive of the possibility the company was buying illegal wood?”
Government prosecutors, faith in, lack thereof.
Of course, you are correct. I mean, when would the United States government ever bend the law for its own uses? Like, sending arms to drug cartels or recess appointing heads of government agencies when Congress actually wasn’t in recess, or just wholesale unilaterally rewriting immigration law? Couldn’t happen. Just speculation and conspiracy.
Hey, did you hear Mitt Romney didn’t pay any taxes the last ten years? I heard it from a guy who heard it from a guy…
Lovely. The National Fish and Wildlife Foundation is one of these nonprofits formed by the government. Worst of both worlds. Power emanating from the government without the accountability of a government agency. No FIOA for them.
As I recall, the original issue was about the fact that the wood was not “finished” enough in Madagascar itself, but rather, ended up being “finished” by Gibson.
The article says “strained interpretation” and I think that was the issue. And, as I recall, what Gibson did was not even in violation of Madagascar law.
That is just what I’m remembering off the top of my head.
Alana
” what Gibson did was not even in violation of Madagascar law”
You’re right.
The Matagascar(-ise? -arian?) were perfectly happy with the sale.
Exact same stuff the sell to Fender Guitars, by the way.
What our Government did was, read Matagascars export law and properly “interpret” it FOR them.
Just to be a good neighbor. Because they care.
I mean, dont YOU re-fold someone elses laundry when you visit?
Why let others do things “All Yucky” when YOU know better?
Democrats are so helpful, why doesnt everyone here see that?
Fender is a union shop.
Fenders are musical appliances. Gibsons are musical instruments. Not the same thing.
Ouch! However, some of the vintage American made Fenders were pretty decent axes. That’s pretty much history though.
You guys don’t have a clue what you are talking about. In particular, the Fender custom shop makes many very fine instruments today, a considerable contrast to a lot of the junk it produced in the 1970′s. The same, by the way, can be said about a lot of what Gibson made in the ’70s, under the control of Norlin accountants.
And as for Fenders being “appliances” instead of instruments, that sure didn’t stop Buddy Guy or Eric Clapton or Keith Richards from settling on them, when they could play any instrument they wanted to. I suspect you guys have never played any kind of Fender or Gibson, and are just shooting your mouths off as usual.
Look up the bio of asst atty general Moreno on the justice dept website. An utter mediocrity, appointed by Obama, whose entire existence is/has been devoted to radical environmentalism and the ‘rights’ of latinos. A perfect snapshot of the Obama administration in microcosm. I am saddened for my country.
This makes me sick.I’ve read about this since the governments first raid of the Gibson factory in Nashville.It is obviously bullying by the government.The lacey act is some small environmental law that the goverment used to try to take down a guy who is an entrepenuer, who supports the Republican party.They tried to use him to make an example of their power.Big government prosecutors.It just makes me sick.I support Gibson in this .I am so sorry it happened.
The Better Business Bureau lists them as unresponsive to requests for information. No transparency.
http://www.bbb.org/charity-reviews/national/animal-protection/national-fish-and-wildlife-foundation-in-washington-dc-1697
Rather than enforcing the immigration laws, the Justice Department is prosecuting Gibson Guitar for importing illegal wood. I cannot imagine any legitimate economic reason for banning the sale of wood species from Madagascar, etc.
The fact is that the number of voters at Gibson is not large enough to matter to B.H. Obama and his lackey, AG Holder.
They also know guitars are played mostly by people “in their camp” anyway…
It wont cost them a single vote (that wasnt lost already) and they made a tidy little profit.
For all their fiscal stupidity, Democrats know the value of a “diversified portfolio”
Why is it the buyer country’s responsibility to not purchase what the seller country is the selling? Shouldn’t the seller country be responsible for determining if what is being sold is legally being sold and then prosecute those who sold it?
Why?
Its the same mentality that says you cant be TRUSTED with your ‘Rights”
Only the Federal Government can decide what (interpritation) of Madagascars export laws should be followed…
Just like only “cops and the military” should have an Assault Weapon.
And no salt/soda/baby formula for you either.
Who are YOU to question their wisdom?
Look up the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, which ties the hands of American companies in international competition, particulary in the Third World. I used to work for — ahem — a big American aircraft manufacturer, and we were given almost weekly lectures about the FCPA, and avoiding anything that would give even the slightest appearance of a hint of impropriety. Meanwhile, our competitor had total freedom to make all kinds of “special deals” with foreign bureaucrats. We never stood a chance in most of those competitions.
But amazingly, you still made a better PRODUCT, didnt you?
I wouldnt trust my life in anything made by a euro-commie consortium of free-loaders and shysters that haven won a war since BEFORE the airplane.
I’ll refer you to Al Armendariz recently an employee of the EPA who’s modus operandi was to “make an example” of companies that protest the charges against them, so that others will think twice. Then, there is the couple who recently won their case just to be able to argue that their home wasn’t a wetland.
Having been the target of a frivolous lawsuit, I can tell you that no matter how clear it is that you are innocent, defending you innocence is extraordinarily expensive. My own attorney bills for attending depositions and filing/defending motions by the plaintiff exceeded $100K in under 9 months. That didn’t include my lost work time. The $200K that my insurance company insisted on paying was “getting off easily” as the projected cost of continuing to defend me for 3 more years was easily going to hit a half million.
And I had done not a single thing wrong or to harm the plaintiff.
Anything involving lawyers is a choreographed mock-fight.
They “punch” and “block” and “counterpunch” to keep the meter running on BOTH sides.
Remember, every Judge is a Lawyer…and they get REALLY pissed if you try to make it efficient and fair…
God help you if you ever say “I’m totally innocent, just read the law and its clear as day…I dont NEED an attorney”
Your refusal to patronize The Judges Racket, is de-facto Contempt.
He WILL rule against you for not kissing the ring.
Seems to pretty selective prosecution. One thing I know, coming from the guitar world, is that there is a big hate on for Gibson from the long grey pony tail crowd. I don’t know if it’s because they were the first to go really corporate or if it’s because there CEO is a Republican or what but it’s there. I’m thinking there’s one in the justice department, strumming his Martin and planning the Get Gibson Campaign.
But let me try to understand the Lacey Act. Assuming a law was broken, buying this wood violated Madasgascar law and the only US law that Gibson violated was this act that allows the USA to prosecute an American for violating a foreign law. Usually it’s murder, theft and other common laws that are enforced between states and across borders, no? Are we going to see homosexuals hung and adulterers stoned soon? Violations of Iran’s Islamic laws next?
I thought wood was a renewable resource, by the way.
The rate of deforestation in Madagascar ebony forests vastly exceeds the rate of reforestation, because Madagascar ebony is a slow-growing species. It’s also partly due to the internal political problems in that country.
The Department of Justice alleges that a Gibson employee had returned from Madagascar to inform his superiors that Madagascar had banned the export of ebony. Despite this, Gibson continued to take possession of several shipments of ebony afterward.
The Justice Department didn’t have to treat Gibson Guitar as if they’re a criminal gang though. Gibson could have just signed a statement pledging not to use Madagascar ebony anymore, and that would have been sufficient for me. But environmentalists loved how the DoJ was making an example out of Gibson, and that’s why the DoJ did it.
Modern environmentalists don’t like to work with private companies to solve environmental problems. They just hate private companies and love seeing them punished. Who are these people anyway?
…they are Marxists that wrap themselves in a coat of green.
…and that is why they’re called ‘WaterMelons’, boys and girls.
Red on the inside and Green on the outside, and you get sticky when you touch one.
I was in Vietnam in 1970. The Teak forests in northern I corps were already dead by the time I got there. Operation Ranch Hand defoiliated much of the jungle in I Corps (not Corpse). My question is, Shouldnt we dig Admiral Elmo Zumwalt and good old Bob McNamara up and prosecute them for the horible crimes they perpetrated against the world.
Really, this Gibson prosecution is about as lame as what I just layed out. The people in the administration who are going after Gibson need to be punished when they least expect it.
“there is a big hate on for Gibson from the long grey pony tail crowd.”
That is a total load of bull. There’s nothing else to say about your remark- you just made it up. It has absolutely no basis in fact.
Let’s be clear, Gibson DID NOT illegally harvest the wood in question; it was harvested by people in Madagascar and India. It likely went through brokers in those countries and eventually was purchased by Gibson.
Gibson manufactures some of the world’s very best stringed instruments, had the wood not been purchased by Gibson, it might have ended up as firewood…and may yet if the U.S. government chooses to destroy it. What a sad waste!
You’d think that with an invasion of illegal aliens, a flood tide of narcotic drugs entering the USA, common street violence on the rise to say nothing of rampant political corruption our government would be so busy they wouldn’t have time to harass a reputable business…
Methinks Gibson Guitar Corp should start thinking about relocating overseas.
Only the rednecks in Tennessee know how to make them. This isn’t like making cars, it’s artisanship.
Just because primary manufacturing is done in Tennessee doesn’t mean the artists involved are hicks. Perhaps you use the term “redneck” with affection?
re-post:
Buzz Ballad: Illegal Wood
—apologies to the Beatles and “Norwegian Wood“
I once made guitars
And built up a small company
The instruments were inlaid
So they’d look good, with Indian wood
My guitars gathered fame
For their fine riffs, and as state gifts
But then I suffered a raid
The government grabbed the wood I had
They told me the woods that I’d purchased had a legal flaw
According to Indian, but not to American, law
But my competitor
Uses the same wood and was ignored
The government plays a lyre
Made from that good Indian wood
I have it on Very Good Authority that Gibson didn’t build that. Somebody else made it happen.
Gibson buys it’s imported wood from the same supplier that Fender, Martin and Taylor buy their imported wood. Game and Fish have NEVER raided these other guitar manufacturers even though their shipments arrive on the same boats. Of course those other companies also happen to be UNION organizations while Gibson is based in right-to-work Tennessee. Not all Gibson plants were raided in this 3 year fiasco, the acoustic guitar facility in Montana has been completely ignored by the Feds. The Bozeman plant also happens to be a UNION shop.
The 2008 amendments to the 100 year old Lacey Act all came at the behest of…..the UNIONS! What a surprise!
I also read once that while Gibson’s owner contributes to Republicans (he was a Huckabee supporter) Martin’s owner or CEO or whatever contributes money to Democrats. Just one being union while the others are seems part of the puzzle, but Obama has shown himself willing to jettison the unions (or anyone else) who aren’t pulling their weight; an outright contribution by a rich guy might get a more proactive attitude from the administration.
There will be a day of reckoning for this administration scum.
If I were Romney (and then President) I would push this case in their face by nullifying the entire case and returning any fines, and reimbursements for legal fees and lost production time.. I would do that on Day 1 of my Presidency.
And let us not forget Frank VanderSloot, the Idaho businessman who donated to a group supporting Mitt Romney and was, along with 7 other contributors, singled out and named by an Obama website as wealthy individuals “having less than reputable records”. Subsequentaly, 12 days later, a former Demo staffer was discovered trolling through Mr. VandrsSloots divorce records).
And in a July 19th follow-up in the Wall Street Journal, Kimberly Strassel points out that Mr. Vandersloot is now being audited by not only the IRS but also the Department of Labor for potential H2-A program violations relating to 3 (out of a total 20) ranch workers employed by Mr. VanderSloot.
You think this is a coincedence? Do you think Gibson does?
And surprise, surprise! Sheldon Adelson’s company is being “investigated” by the feds. Funny, that.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444320704577566803521121134.html
Thanks for the info.
This outrageous behavior is piling up thick and heavy.
Hmm…. Wonder where that ebony is going to end up? Gibson’s competitors, perhaps?
Didn’t hear much outrage from Fender, or Alembic, Martin, et.al., did we?
The U.S. administration is rabidly anti-America, and rabidly anti-American business.
This is shameful cronyism by Obama’s DOJ, prosecuting Gibson when India itself, as one of the countries of origin, didn’t object and while not prosecuting Martin Guitars, an Obama supporter, for using the same products in its production line.
The problem appears to be a date of effectivity conflict, a gotcha law. The Lacey act dates from the early 20th century, but it was revised in 2008, as part of the massive Food, Conservation, and Energy Act of 2008, with December 2008 being the effective date for this legal requirement, for a Plant and Plant Product import declaration (per Wikipedia). The law was passed over the veto of President Bush as being a budget buster, including food stamp, the nonexistent commercial Cellulosic ethanol, and massive farm subsidies. a $288 billion, five-year agricultural policy bill…. ” Billions of dollars in subsidies are distributed to these (US) farmers no matter how much they grow”.
Since a major portion of the world’s logging is illegal to somebody, it appears that Gibson bought Madagascar ebony without the newly required paperwork. If Gibson had bought a compliant farm in Tenn, rather than Madagascar logs, relying on Madagascar’s paperwork, they would have made more money, but less guitars. The current Tenn politicians are screaming about dates of effectivity, and grandfathering words.
Are the crooks and dummies in Nashville, Washington D.C. or Madagascar? My only certainty is that guitars will cost more and we are out $288 Bn.
Ebony fretboards are found only on high-end Gibson guitars (e.g. Les Paul Customs, L5′s.) If you think they have any real impact on the price of a guitar in the $3,000-10,000 range, you have a lot to learn about guitars.
I know nothing about guitars. But I can estimate that, with legal and indirect costs, Gibson lost well over $1,000,000 apparently due to be their “illegal source” of ebony fret boards. If true, the gizmos are well named.
The sour note, for me, is the $288 Bn. I once read that a Congressional wag, inserted legislative text to require that all farm subsidies would be limited to only people who worked with dirt. Since some 70% of the subsidies go to people who work in office buildings, he was almost lynched by his fellow legislators.
All the logs in Madagascar could not equal this confiscated wealth. I repeat. Are the crooks and dummies in Nashville, Washington D.C. or Madagascar?
Who is John Galt?
It is past time to withdraw from this corrupt system, and to stop helping it to pretend to any shred of legitimacy.
the fact the USA government is superseding foreign government’s interpretation of their own laws SCREAMS global governance precedent.
it’s not just about American national politics
think about it
Now I feel even better about purchasing my new Les Paul Studio Honeyburst, which was on sale for $649 less 20% here in NYC.
Nothing but legal extortion and plunder. It is an outrage.
I will not be surprised when Gibson starts making guitars in another country that doesn’t have this partisan enforcement.
Anyone remember when those “extra” dealerships were dispensed with following the federal acquisition of Government Motors?
More of the same. This is what we’ll have to look forward to if Obama is re-elected.
Gibson has made guitars overseas for many years. Most all Epiphones are made in Asia, for example. There is a reason why the high level ones are still made here.
And by the way, I find it very amusing that you rabid patriots are rooting to move more American jobs overseas, even with one of the last products on earth where American craftsmanship is still the world standard. You just can’t stand the idea of American workers being anything but menial serfs.
@Green Eagle, I find it amusing that you think patriots are rabid, is that only US patriots you apply this to?
The original poster did not make a statement that suggested patriotism, rabid or otherwise, nor did the poster “root” for moving jobs overseas.
This is the kind of crap that the “justice” department does instead of the things it should be doing (prosecuting black panther voter intimidation, investigating presidential violations of the oath of office,etc.). I’ve never been disgusted to be an American, but this bunch in power right now has made me so. These obamaites MUST be expunged from office by any means possible. If it is not done soon, they will have done so much dammage that it will be irreversible.
New Black Panther thugs ok. Gibson tax payers not ok.
Solution, dump Obama and the rest of the Chicago scumbags.
Oh that sounds so racist, we should have consideration for president obama who lied, cheated his way to power and the dimmies who allowed him to upsurp the presidency.
The MSM sold it out a bargan price. Simply as they are doing NOW, don’t ask questions the ” dear leader” does not wish to ansewer.
The first thing obama did as president was to have his records sealed.
As american we must have this info exposed, it is certinly more important than Mr. Romneys tax records.
Even the phlemwad harry reid would agree this obamas college transcripts must be made public.
The LACY LAW has been a injustice that overzellous procecutors with no morals or sence of justice has used to attack Americans.
ABNER SCHOENWETTER is a victim because he inported lobsters legaly into the U. S. from Chilie. Abner was procecuted for violating laws that did not exist, our government even had the secratary to testify against him. She lied during her testimony.
Abner Schoenwetter spent 5 of 8 years in prision and was fined 100k for legaly importing lobsters.
I find that our government acted malicisly and is guilty of judicial malfeasence.
I am ashamed of what they did to this man, his family and his business.
Gibson Guitar Corp. Strikes Deal with Justice Dept. to Avoid ‘Persecution’.