My college Greek tutor used to tell the story of his college Greek tutor, who would end every class by stepping to the blackboard, writing down two or three points, and saying, “Gentlemen, this is the irreducible minimum you should take away from this class.”
Let me emulate that example and offer the irreducible minimum you should take away from the news today. It’s from the indispensable Andy McCarthy over at National Review Online. His column is called “It’s about Sharia,” and the irreducible minimum I’d like to highlight is this striking proposition:
“Islamism is not a movement to be engaged, it is an enemy to be defeated.”
Please, commit that to memory. Think of it every time someone tells you that Islam means “peace” or starts making excuses for the latest chapter in the annals of Islam’s war against the West.
For that’s what we’re talking about here: Islam’s war against the West. It’s not Islam’s misuse of commercial airliners, its penchant for sawing off the heads of people they disapprove of, or even its profound lack of sympathy for bacon. No, it’s Islam’s fundamental, essential incompatibility with foundational Western values like free speech, the separation of church and state, and equality under the law. Such things are not simply missing from Islam: they are positively repudiated by Islam, a fact that is ingredient in the very word “Islam,” which, pace the multiculturalists, means not “peace” but “submission,” i.e., submission to the will of Allah.
Many well-meaning people, I know, will shudder when they hear this. Islam is “a great religion.” How could it be fundamentally incompatible with all those good things we like to celebrate in the West? Women’s rights, religious toleration, not to mention Chateauneuf-du-Pape and kindred potations. Aren’t we beyond all that hawkish, “divisive” talk about the “conflict of civilizations”? Very possibly — if wishes were horses, which they are not; ergo, etc. Cf. Matthew 13:43: “He who has ears, let him hear.”
Andy’s column is a gloss on an important speech that Newt Gingrich delivered at the American Enterprise Institute a few days ago. Newt’s key insight is that we are engaged not in a war against terror but a war against Sharia, i.e., Islamic law. Would that our current masters in Washington had as clear-eyed an appreciation of the nature of the conflict in which we are immersed. “Gingrich,” Andy writes, “is going about the long-overdue business of resetting our understanding of the civilizational jihad that has been waged against the United States for some 31 years.” He continues:
“The single purpose of this jihad is the imposition of sharia. On that score, Gingrich made two points of surpassing importance. First, some Islamists employ mass-murder attacks while others prefer a gradual march through our institutions — our legal, political, academic, and financial systems, as well as our broader culture; the goal of both, though, is the same. The stealth Islamists occasionally feign outrage at the terrorists, but their quarrel is over methodology and pace. Both camps covet the same outcome.
Second, that outcome is the death of freedom. In Islamist ideology, sharia is deemed to be the necessary precondition for Islamicizing a society — for Islam is not merely a religious doctrine, but a comprehensive socio-economic and political system. . . .
Sharia, moreover, is anti-equality. It subjugates women and brutally punishes transgressors, particularly homosexuals and apostates. While our law forbids cruel and unusual punishments, Gingrich observed that the brutality in sharia sanctions is not gratuitous, but intentional: It is meant to enforce Allah’s will by striking example.”
You understand I hope that when you say, ”Muslims who embrace our freedom culture ….” you are talking about Muslims who are no longer Muslims, at best, in the view of other Muslims, apostates, worse than unbelievers.
As Geert Wilders says, ”There may be moderate Muslims but there is no moderate Islam.” In other words, there is no such thing as ”radical Islam” – there is only Islam. Islam is an extremist ideology, a totalitarian ideology.
Our allies as you call them are those born Muslim but who repudiate Islam.
Islam cannot be reformed – this is a myth, just wishful thinking. In order to ”reform” Islam, Mohammed must be deleted. This is no matter of re-interpretation of Islamic texts – a reformed Islam would no longer be Islam but a new sect like Bahai.
You are correct – Islam must be defeated.
Here’s the truth about Islam:
The Legacy of Jihad: Islamic Holy War and the Fate of Non-Muslims (Andrew Bostom)
The Suicide of Reason: Radical Islam’s Threat to the West (Lee Harris)
The Flight of the Intellectuals (Paul Berman)
When Muslims assert that Islam is a “religion of peace” they are not engaging in al taqqiya, they are making an assertion in good faith.
The problem lies in the fact that Islam has a defective concept of peace. In semitic languages like Arabic, the consonants are the “root” of the word: islam = submission, and salam = peace have the same root, slm.
The only concept of peace in Islamic jurisprudence is the peace between the conqueror and the conquered, between master and slave. There is no concept of a negotiated peace between nations in Islamic law (and note that law is the defining property of Islam—their clerics are jurists, schools of Qu’ranic interpretation are called fiqh, a legalistic term)—Muslims may negotiate a “hudna” or armistice of limited duration with non-Muslim, but not a definitive enduring peace.
Finally, Islam is a serial murderer of entire cultures and peoples. This is what is has done throughout its entire history. Those whom it does not destroy, it enslaves, diminishes and impoverishes. Islam cannot be ‘reformed’ in the light of humanity and freedom. Were that so, it would no longer be Islam. For its psychopathic regard and treatment of women alone, Islam is an abomination and worthy only of extinction.
Submission>surrender>slavery: ‘I am a slave of Allah.’
and have learned to love Big Brother
Terry, you hit the nail on the head.
There are no “Islamists,” only Muslims who adhere to Islam.
There are no “moderate Muslims,” only Muslims who do not adhere to Islam.
Well said. Bravo!
The only chance we have to defeat Islam, in the long run, is by fighting it ideologically.
Basically the West faces a permanent jihad that will gradually become more and more pronounced as time goes on. There is only one logical way to solve the problem, outlaw, ban, and reverse Muslim immigration in the West. Then oust the regimes that are responsible for financing and funding the jihad, confiscate their oil wealth and oil assets, render the entire Dar al Islam into abject poverty so that it will become too poor to wage jihad, and then isolate them. Any other alternative entails dealing with jihad on a permanent basis.
In a world that fears overpopulation there is a human force that has historically conquered by numerical advantage. Dr. Peter Hammond’s book: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat describes the symptoms of the progression.
“Their birth rates dwarf the birth rates of Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, and all other believers.” Islamization begins when there are sufficient Muslims in a country to agitate for their religious privileges. When politically correct, tolerant, and culturally diverse societies agree to Muslim demands for their religious privileges, some of the other components tend to creep in as well. As long as the Muslim population remains around or under 2% in any given country, they will be for the most part be regarded as a peace-loving minority, and not as a threat to other citizens. At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs. From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population. For example, they will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature halal on their shelves — along with threats for failure to comply.” Democracy and Islam cannot coexist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic. Islam is Neither a religion nor a cult. In it’s fullest form it is a complete, total, 100% system of life under direction of the Mullahs. The ultimate goal of Islamists is to establish Sharia law over the entire world
Fifty years of active recruiting in prisons cannot be trivialized any more than the two described as devout Muslims appointed to Homeland Security posts. Funds financing jihad are currently being collected far and wide by organizations within the USA
Until the term “treason” is revived don’t expect any other futile effort to do more than cause a decreased jihad event frequency. It is their only honorable way out of the rut they are forced to call a life.
I don’t think even a catastrophic attack on our country will be able to reverse the horrible PC that infects the elites.Mc Carthy and Gingrich are right ,but who will listen to them?
Yes, well it already happened nine years ago and you see the result.
Pedro: PC is a symptom and the disease is Leftism/statism. Moreover, were it not for the Left’s love of multiculturalism and its hatred of the West, we’d be in a much better position to confront and defeat Islam in our midst.
It is high time we are having this conversation. Islam is political, intending its tenets to permeate every aspect of it adherents’ lives, and so of course includes the so-called religious aspects. It is not so different then from the Left, whose ever-tightening rules and regulations are squeezing out our historic freedoms, bit by bit. Two different totalitarian systems seek America’s destruction.
The war is bigger and deeper than most Americans know. How is it that we have “no go” zones in America where Islam has taken over entire communities (Dearborn for example and places in New York etc) How is it that Mosques go up all over America in communities that have no money of their own? How is it that the US sponsors thousands of Muslim immigrants without any scrutiny or reporting by the press or others who supposedly care? How is it that armies of lawyers and inside the beltway consultants and associations pander to muslim countries and allow the buying off of local politicians and other opposition before these plans are laid? The war against radical Islam is happening on many fronts but in most of these fronts we are asleep at the switch. The source of muslim funds to radical islamic associations is well known and followed by the faithful bloggers but ignored by the media. What else is new!
Saudi is funding all these mosques…and mosques go up in areas with NO money to pull in those people…..It is ALL designed to recruit and ‘get use’ to the jihad being here…then they will force SHARIA on the local areas……This is how these jihadi thugs work. ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION…IT IS A LIFE….AND WE MUST STOP IT IN AMERICA NOW!!!! AMERICANS MUST TAKE A STAND ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION!!!! IF YOU THINK DIFFERENTLY…DO SOME DAMN RESEARCH!
wrong again stacy. In general it is the congregation that funds the Mosques. Most Mosques post their returns online for everyone to see. Does your church do this? Are you funded by the same people stealing in the name of business during the day and adding to your coffers on Sunday? Building a church on soiled cash is despicable and you should be outraged. If you care so much about funding you should clean your own house.
It is fun to play games on the internet aye? No stinkin Muslim would have a name like Patrick,sorry you must be a desolutioned Anglican.
Pedro, Pedro, Pedro. One hit wonder Pedro. As I have said to another post I will say to you….your ignorance is hanging out, I am so embarrassed for you! (-;
No need to change the name upon entering Islam. You missed that one on your How to Discredit, Destroy and Dupe Islam and Muslims 101 class.
At least some of the other bigots here have made some good points and strong arguments. Insults are the lowest form my friend. Come back when you grow up.
thank you ROGER
it is good to see some people telling it like it is. I meet many people who have no clue about islam and parrot all the talking points they get from the main sleaze media
I am a Muslim and you can come after me first. Sharia? Let me know when the senate debates that one. Do you think Muslims are hiding in their Mosques planning a take over of America? Go visit a Mosque and maybe you will diminish your ignorance. You can try anyway. Women’s rights in America? Come on. Stop trying to make it out like women in America are equal here, you know they are not but maybe kinda equal is OK for you. Who is the party of Jihad, all Muslims is probably your reply. Research Jihad silly and stop trying to fan the flames. Be an individual or stay a coward. Last time I checked there was not any Muslims armies in western countries but you can’t say that same in reverse. What invisible war are you trying to suggest? You support secularism? That’s a laugh. You have no idea what Sharia is, this is obvious. Nice try with all the common anti-Islamic catchphrases. Go outside and take a long walk and try to meet some of the people that you propose to know so much about. Where is the implementation of Sharia except in your head. The western culture did not start as Judeo Christian but I’m sure you know this. You scare me sir. Stay in your house and load your guns and wait for the war…fool!
Terry, Eliat – Israel: news for you, nobody likes you either, how quickly you forget. Add your 2 cents, still nobody cares. Israel is a terrorist organization. You are a sad group.
Thanks for the confirmation of exactly what you are.
Defending myself. You are too much of a coward to say anything. Get off the moral high horse you presume to be on.
Sometimes the best route to follow is one where the fool, or the hyena in this case, is allowed to prattle on, without comment. You made your case known with the “Israel is a terrorist organization’ crack. Proof that nothing I say will deter you. I will admit that you are well spoken and versed in what you believe, from additional comments but, a well spoken bigot is still a bigot. I use “bigot” as Islam is institutionalised bigotry.
when you are right you are right. Good point. I still disagree with your campaign but I respect your reply.
Dear ‘Patrick McCarthy’,
As a Muslim, we know that you profess the shahada as the first tenant of your Islamic beliefs: “lâ ilâha illallâh, Muḥammadur rasûlullâh” / “There is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah”. Correct?
We know the second tenant of your Islamic beliefs is that the Koran is the direct, immutable, unalterable word of Allah, revealed through the voice of his messenger, Muhammed. Correct?
The direct, immutable, unalterable word of Allah in Koran 68:4 upholds Muhammed as “…an exalted [standard of] character.” Islamic tradition upholds Muhammed as ‘al-insan al-kamil’ or ‘the perfect man’, to be emulated by all Muslims.
As recorded in the Islamic ‘holy’ books, Muhammed was a murderer, torturer, amputator, decapitator, mutilator, slaver, kidnapper, looting stealing thief, rapist, human trafficker, sex trafficker, child rapist, sexual deviant, misogynist, perfidious liar, genocidist and self proclaimed terrorist. I’m not making this up…it’s recorded in black & white in the Koran, Ahadith and Sirah Rasul Allah. Right?
Patrick, we all understand that as a Muslim you must submit to the mandates of Islam and worship Muhammed as your moral standard bearer. But can you truly do this as a human being?
As a human being, can you honestly say that Muhammed is worthy of being called a ‘holy’ prophet?
As a human being, can you honestly say that the examples of Muhammed were ‘an excellent standard of conduct’, and that Muhammed was the ‘perfect man’?
Is decapitation, sex slavery, thieving, genocide, rape, forced amputation, torture, mutilation, raping a little 9 year old girl, sexual gluttony and unquenchable lust, endless material greed, kidnapping and terrorism where your moral compass centers?
As a Muslim, it must be – it is commanded by Allah.
Otherwise you are no Muslim but an apostate who believes differently than what the ‘holy’ prophet of Islam preached, did and mandated his followers to do.
Patrick, please re-read the Islamic texts. Use your last ounce of humanity to not just submit to them, but to question them.
Please tell us if what they teach is truly moral. Please tell us if the savagery of Muhammed is greater than the love of Jesus or the peace of the Guatama Buddha.
Please tell us if you think killing, subjugation and submission is the answer, if these are humanities highest morality as shown words and deeds of Muhammed, the ‘final’ prophet.
We shall pray for you Patrick.
~ The Infidel Alliance
P.S. – do you not see, that literally and figuratively, in every way, Muhammed was truly an ‘anti-Christ’.
To the Infidel Alliance: well said. As it is written: Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also.(I Jo 2:22,23) Islam denies the Son, and therefore the Father as well. Allah is NOT God at all, but rather satan, the devil. The fruit is plain. The tree is rotten.
Inasmuch as you have denied the Son, Patrick McCarthy, your fate is evident. It is written: He who does not believe is already condemned.
Witty name you have going for yourself. I think a better name for you is the Hate Express. Your logic is biased, flawed, out of context and does not warrant a reply item by item. Everyone asks about the moderates and I am answering as a moderate. Your extremism is one sided and there is no need for me to engage you in your folly. Unfortunately you are the type of person, or are you really a group, that shows the ignorance of your battle. Islam does not need validation from you. 1400+ years is not erased because of your new brand of Christianity that seeks division instead of tolerance.
It is easy to open the translation of the Quran and put your finger on a quote and have no idea what it means but still think you do. Try this experiment with a new convert to your religion and tell them to read the Bible cover to cover by themselves and decipher for themselves. Tell them no need to read it cover to cover but just take any sentence or verse at any time. Most likely they will find the same as you proclaim about Islam.
Ask your pastor how many quotes supposedly from Jesus, peace be upon Him, are considered authentic. Ask him why so many books were removed from the Bible and where they are now? Ask him why Jesus, peace be upon Him, would turn water into wine at a wedding party as a Prophet of God? Ask why Jesus, peace be upon Him, as a prophet of God would ask on the cross why he was being forsaken? The answers are clear to any historian of the Bible. The original words of Jesus, peace be upon him, are lost and what you have is a book assembled by men.
Read “The Sealed Nectar” if you want an historic account of the Life of Prophet Mohammad, pace be upon him, without the hate of the book you normally read.
Read the lives of the Sahaba, companions, and see what sort of people followed him. Our Islamic history is documented for all to see and judge for themselves. This is new for you because you have nothing left for any real proof for yourself.
I see you can also use a thesaurus for a nice list of derogatory terms. You are an extremist and my words may be wasted on you so you can deal with the foolish extremists in Islam. My money is on them, not you. I will pray for you as well.
Dear ‘Patrick McCarthy’,
The only way you can say my ‘logic is biased, flawed, out of context and does not warrant a reply item by item.” is if you:
1) reject the shahada and
2) reject the Koran as the the direct, immutable, unalterable word of Allah, revealed through the voice of his messenger, Muhammed. That doesn’t make you much of a Muslim Mr. McCarthy.
My logic comes directly from Islamic sources and is unassailable, which is why you are too cowardly to address it point by point.
If you cannot defend the most very fundamental tenants of Islam, you are simply a fraud Mr. McCarthy, and your Islamic religion and your barbarian prince Muhammed are frauds too.
~ The Infidel Alliance
Excellent points, though I believe you mean “tenets” not “tenants”
Let the truth be known.
Sounds like taqiyya and kitman to me.
Trust a Muslim at your peril, friends.
Bigotry
Check
Call it whatever you like. Your “religion” preaches the conquest and subjugation of the whole world under an Islamic theocracy. Indeed, it decrees it to be a duty of all Muslims to work toward that end, in its most sacred document. Don’t think we’re not aware of the doctrine of abrogation, either; the “peaceful” verses of the Qur’an preceded the violent and imperialistic ones in time, and were nullified by them. Sura 9 was one of the last of the Suras to be “revealed” to your bloodthirsty, pedophilic Prophet, despite its number.
Your creed is fit only for medieval savages. It has no place in the United States.
Self admitted bigot –
“…nobody likes you either…”
6. Patrick McCarthy
“Terry, Eliat – Israel: news for you, nobody likes you either…”
July 31, 2010 – 11:24 am
point taken. as I said in my lengthy reply it was a juvenile error. I made a miscalculation in order to see just who was on this website. This does not mean I recant my statement about Israel being a terrorist organization. For those of you looking for an Ah hah! look we have an antisemitic Muslim, some Arabs belong to this class by the way, I am not referring to Jews as a whole but at a government body engaged in terrorist activity. I said before I prefer religious Jews and Christians who are well versed in their own history and beliefs. These people usually become moderates but may pass extremism on their way.
It’s pretty obvious you don’t understand western culture, Patrick McC. And the fact that you deem Israel a terrorist group speaks volumes about you as a Muslim. Don’t presume to tell us what we know and don’t know about Islam, when the news is there to be absorbed daily, and when many of us have to deal with Muslims on a daily basis. I’ve watched an unprecedented transformation among American Muslims over just the past decade and a half. Before then, you almost never saw a woman in hijab, or a Muslim man who didn’t try to fit into secular western society. Since then, you hardly ever see a Muslim woman who isn’t all bundled up, or a Muslim man who isn’t belligerent about his religion.
As a woman, I’ll take western civilization over Islam any day of the week.
I will presume to tell you since you are telling me about Islamic culture. Obviously you have no clue about it. The news, don’t be naive, you don’t trust what I wrote… it is unimaginable that you would trust whatever you come upon online. It’s not my issue that you missed Islam and did not bother to see in the past. Bundled up? Go talk to any one of those bundled up women before you Madam, presume to tell me how desperate or oppressed they are. There is limitations to all extremes for example: why don’t you fight for your right to wear a bikini to court or church? Why not, fight for your rights. Even you would probably agree that there is limits. The majority of converts into Islam are women. I suppose your sisters are all lost and weak unlike you right? I am being pushy here because I have had enough nonsense said in the name on Islam by non-Muslims who eat up any garbage they see in the news. Think for yourself. Investigate. Nobody wants to rule you and nobody wants Sharia, thats the discussion and nobody NOBODY here has anything except accusations. Proof is not important to hate mongers.
Here are just a few lovely verses from your book:
“Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them.” Koran 2:191
“Make war on the infidels living in your neighborhood.” Koran 9:123
“When opportunity arises, kill the infidels wherever you catch them.” Koran 9:5
“Any religion other than Islam is not acceptable.” Koran 3:85
“The Jews and the Christians are perverts; fight them.” Koran 9:30
“Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticize Islam” Koran 5:33
“The infidels are unclean; do not let them into a mosque.” Koran 9:28
“Punish the unbelievers with garments of fire, hooked iron rods, boiling water; melt their skin and bellies.” Koran 22:19
“Do not hanker for peace with the infidels; behead them when you catch them.” Koran 47:4
“Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]…until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued.” (Surah 9:27)
“…make war on the leaders of unbelief…Make war on them: God will chastise them at your hands and humble them. He will grant you victory over them…” (Surah 9:12-)
“Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God’s religion shall reign supreme.” (Surah 8:36-)
“Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends.” (Surah 5:51)
That’s it for now. There are many, many more and I have not included anything from the hadith.
Good list that you have compiled. I appreciate that you actually opened a Quran unlike some of the other jokers on this site. What I have to offer you is context. Have a look at Ibn Katheer’s Tafseer, which will give you a quote by quote explanation. I also found it tough going through the Quran as a novice because since it was all new I did not have any framework to connect it with. You can say OK or tell me to take a hike. Anyone rooted in their faith should never have a problem reading another’s right? It should help build your faith and not break it.
With all due respect, in stark contrast to faith-based religions, Islam is a religion of submission whereby Muslims submit to the will of Allah, which is Sharia, the divine will of Allah. It is pretty simple really, a Muslim who doesn’t accept and adhere to Sharia, or, in other words, accept the way the world should be ordered according to Allah, isn’t a Muslim. Hence, shove your taqiyya up where the sun doesn’t shine, as we know that you are just another lying and prevaricating arrogant Muslim.
The Muslims are the best of people. Dream on! They have contributed nothing but mayhem, murder, and misery to the world.
Actually at one time, Islam DID contribute to the world. We get our numerical system pretty much from them. There was a number of large libraries and universities which stemmed from Islam. Unfortunately this seeming progress stopped.
Actually at one time, Islam DID contribute to the world. We get our numerical system pretty much from them. There was a number of large libraries and universities which stemmed from Islam. Unfortunately this seeming progress stopped.
Number system was stolen from conquered Hindus. As for the libraries, the Muslims are infamous for destroying libraries and Islamic universities specialize in Islam and Islamic law.
you should have added another M to your screen name (momma) if you really wanted to get your point as a racist across with zeal. Shari’a is not a divine doctrine Madam.
Mr. McCarthy, I think you might want to spend more quality time at your local Mosque and actually learn something about Islam. Then, if you still love it as you claim, you might want to go live in Saudi Arabia, the land of Mosques with no Christian churches or Synagogues in sight. Won’t that be great? I think there are probably enough of us here to pitch in a few bucks each, buy you a one way ticket, escort you, safely, to the airport and wish you a fond farewell. Your Jihad friends would welcome you with open arms don’t you think?
Thanks Geppetto. I accept your offer for a trip to Saudi Arabia. Set up an bank account for the funds or are you just talking nonsense? Saudi Arabia is not synonymous with Islam but I’m sure you know that already. For now, I will stay in America where I a can practice my religion freely and openly. This is part of what America stands for whether you like it or not. There is still room on Antarctica for you to go and live there. I will not pay for your trip though. I like that you are here to express your opinions.
“Bundled up? Go talk to any one of those bundled up women before you Madam, presume to tell me how desperate or oppressed they are.”
These women are denied the ability to feel the sun on their bodies because of a memeplex of ridiculous patriarchal superstitions. Are you saying there’s nothing wrong with that?
“There is limitations to all extremes for example: why don’t you fight for your right to wear a bikini to court or church?”
Why hello there, straw man!
and your point is? Do you think Muslim women wear the veil 24 hors a day? Anyway, talk to one of them about how un-free they are and start your campaign there. It should be very easy to show them the way. The fact is that freedom does not need to be measured by how much clothing you wear or don’t wear.
Answer my question about wearing a bikini in church. Don’t you have the right? Anyway, this is an issue for the ladies to discuss so I will let them answer for themselves.
Weak Muslim women! You must be kidding me that all you have to do to control a woman is put a cotton cloth on their head!Just plain silly.
Correct me if I am wrong but is not the man the head of the household in Christianity as well? Did you take your husbands name after marriage? In Islam the women does not take her husbands name but keeps her own. She also keeps all her money, property and all her possessions for herself and still the husband is obliged to provide for her. Get the facts Clair and come back.
I thought they were required to wear them whenever they went outside. Hence the comment about the sun.
As to your slightly creepy personal questions, I’m twenty years old, which in my culture is far too young to get married. When and if I do get married, I will hopefully have established myself as a scholar in my field, which means that I will have published things under my birth name. Some female academics change their names even so – whether I do or not depends on how “known” I am under my current name at that point. Also, I find it pretty funny that you just assumed I was married. (Hey guys, all women are married! That’s what they’re for, right? Roflcopterz0rs.)
As if changing your name or not has any bearing on how free you are to lead your life the way you want to anyway. I’m also amused that you assumed I was Christian – I was raised Jewish, but I don’t believe in God. So, wrong and wrong, Patric. (See what I did there?)
Didn’t people just use patronymics in Koranic times anyway? In which case any model Mohammed & Friends could have provided for such situations would be incompatible with surnames like we have. X daughter of Y won’t suddenly become X daughter of someone else. This is how surnames work in Iceland to this day.
And sure, nobody’s going to report you to the government for wearing a bikini in a church, but people will laugh at you and think you’re weird. Which I guess is what generally happens to people who wear burqas, too!
There wasn’t a “reply” link on the comment I’m actually responding to, but it should be sufficiently obvious.
trying to reply to Claire but no place to reply to direct post so it is here.
It’s not about whenever they are outside. Muslims go to the beach, swim and even sunbathe. The issue is to have the veil on as a sign of self respect for her and not as a prison as some would like to suggest. Are there times a Muslim woman does not want to wear it, sure. Are there times it is forced, sure. What is missing is that often times it is the girl herself that decides. Abuses of this are plentiful but the main intention of this is to protect a womans dignity. Why we accept that our daughters, wives, and mothers should be used as objects in the name of freedom is baffling to me. This will connect to the other point I was trying to make with you…
I did not intend to make the question about wearing the bikini to be a personal shot at you. I was making a comparison about where the line is on clothing and rights. Do you believe that a women is more free with the amount of cloths she decides to wear? Not many places of worship would tolerate a man or woman in such clothing therefore respect and clothing do have a connection. I’d like anyone to tell my wife she is oppressed by wearing the veil. It is just plain humorous and ridiculous to most regular Muslim women that wear the veil. I still offer you the chance to go and ask one for yourself.
Your culture you mean American right? I never assumed that you were married at all nor did I say you should be married. The talk is of men and women so this is a logical step in my opinion. And you assume that I think all women are slaves? Come on let’s play fair.
As if wearing a piece of cotton on your head has any relation to how free you are?
The point of changing the name is a feminist viewpoint that I supposed you were aware of.
Whatever you were raised is not an issue for me. I assumed, incorrectly, that you were involving yourself in a religious discussion because you had one or the other viewpoints. Christians are represented well here so I did assume, incorrectly.
Lineage is a concern for most groups. Arabs used son of and daughter of or mother of and daughter of….
If you don’t believe in God why are you posting here? You seem intelligent enough to be open to the possibility of God. Forget about Islam, Christianity, or whatever…answer me this personal question:
Where did we come from?
Bible: 1 Corinthians 11:2-16
This “Patrick McCarthy” seems here to have written an incredibly terse summary of all those shrilly voiced “points” that we democratically minded Americans will sensibly want parse carefully for real content. I think this type of “post” is spin-twisted…Hydra-headed and venomous.
But, venomous in the Taqiyya sense which makes it all the more subversive in the West because we’re not attuned to thinking his way.
Readers here unfamiliar with that slippery Muslim/Islamic concept of Taqiyya should waste no time clicking around the search engines of their choice for a primer on this unique Muslim/Islamist mole-effort. It’s very effective. We owe it to ourselves to become familiar with Taqiyya and to start parsing statements like this one coming these stereotypical “Patrick McCarthy” moles, who are popping up with increasing frequency. We’re not used to this.
Also, be prepared for shoes being hurled in your direction.
Our best countermeasure? AWARENESS.
..correction..
read: …”parsed”….
I’m seem to be missing your points. You want to support democracy and so do I. Newsfalsh, I don’t need Sharia here because America already has numerous parts of Sharia included. If you would do a web search you would find that Sharia is for stability, freedom, rights, and social responsibility. You will also find that Sharia is NOT PRACTICED today because no Muslim country, even Saudi Arabia, rules as a proper Islamic model.You would be sadly mistaken if you thought that the Muslim world bows to Saudi decision making. It is laughable that so many articles are about Saudi Arabia being the “Rome” of Islam. As Rome fell, so did Saudi. They have a King for goodness SAKE!
You are using Taqiyya incorrectly as well. I am not hiding anything about my religion out of fear for my safety. When you think about it, it is an aspect that all religions should and have used when they felt under threat. Some will stand firm and I respect that, others are not as strong but it gives them the ability to stay alive. I am hardly a mole don’t you think? I’m not hiding!
I’m size 8 regular, throw me some nice penny loafers, don’t go cheap on me though!
Your statement that ‘Israel is a terrorist organization’ shows, without any other required additions, the depth of your ignorance and depravity.
Hey, Paddy….
ISLAMIC WORLD WAR. Let’s look at the facts:
Islam against the :
- Catholics in the Philippines
- Christians in Indonesia
- Buddhists in Thailand
- Australian infidel tourists in Hindu Bali (blown up twice)
- Hindus & Sikhs in India
- Zoroastrians & Bahai in Iran (nearly exterminated)
- Buddhists in Afghanistan (exterminated)
- Chaldean Christians in Iraq (being systematically exterminated)
- Jews in Israel
- Coptic Christians in Egypt
- animists & Christians in the Sudan
- all infidels in Somalia
- infidels in Kenya
- embassies in Kenya & Tanzania
- Christians in Zanzibar
- Christians in Nigeria
- atheists in Europe
- native French in Paris
- Jews in France (read the sickening story of Ilam Halimi)
- train commuters in Spain
- tube commuters in London
- native Swedes in Malmo
- native Dutch in Amsterdam
- Dutch politicians like Ayaan Hirsi Ali & Geert Wilders (death fatwa)
- Dutch cartoonists
- novelists like Salman Rushdie (death fatwa)
- journalists like Daniel Pearl (decapitated)
- office workers in New York (twice)
- airline passengers everywhere
- Olympic athletes in Munich
- wheelchair bound retirees on cruise ships
- merchant ships off the horn of Africa
- Jewish centers in Mumbai, Argentina, Venezuela, Seattle & Toronto
- American infidels in N. Carolina (SUV Jihadist & American convert Jihadists)
- the U.N. Universal Declaration of Human Rights (they adopted the Cairo Declaration of Human Rights in Islam)
- S. Korean tourists in Yemen (blown up)
- S. Korean Kim Sun-Il (beheaded)
- Polish engineer Piotr Stanczyk (beheaded – he refused to convert to Islam)
- Aid worker Nick Berg (decapitated)
- engineer Paul Johnson (head cut off while still alive)
- women (acid attacks & “honor” killings)
- homosexuals (lynched from cranes in Iran)
- cinematographers like Theo VanGogh (viciously & savagely murdered on the streeets of Amsterdam in broad daylight by a guy named Mohammed)
And on, and on, and on……it is Islam against anything and everyone non-Islamic, on every continent except Antactica. FACTS…FACTS.
Dear ‘SilenceDoGood’,
That list is important, for it is the raw truth.
The term ‘ISLAMIC WORLD WAR’ is important, because it is also the raw truth.
Please keep spreading these truths wherever and whenever you can.
~The Infidel Alliance
Good list. It is a list of extremist action that is reprehensible. I’m sure you don’t think that my list for you would be anything else but the same do you? As Islamic history is documented, so is yours. Your list shows a failure of humanity to understand their own faith. I’m sure someone has already posted the Christian list but really, where does that get us today? They are facts that you posted and probably one of the first here that has sought the road of truth over opinion. Extremists on all side should be sent to Antarctica to hash it out and the winner can stay there.
Patrick McCarthy….. you’ve been outed…..MOLE!!!!
Thanks Wayne, you got me! My cover is blown. Read the rest of the posts and don’t just be a one hit wonder.
All I need to know of want to know about Islam I learned on Sept 11, 2001.
If you mooslims do’nt like the way we do things here you are free to leave.
Do’nt let the door hit you where the good lord split you
Not sure where you think we want to leave? The way things are done here is fine with us. We will take our paddling just like the others before us. If 9-11 is your gauge of Islam this is up to you. Kosher is well thought out system so follow your screen name and don’t be ignorant.
As more & more people learn about Islam, see it for what it really is, opposition will grow, more & more measures will be taken against this vile ideology of hate.
What Islam fears the most (besides the truth) is the mass defection of Muslims, young people who are sick of Islam, fed up with the lies, the repression, the lack of freedom, the hypocrisy. Plenty of Muslims are good people DESPITE Islam, even a crap totalitarian barbarism like Islam can’t deceive everyone forever.
I know this from experience, I knew many, many Muslims, young people, who absolutely hated Islam, who were afraid to speak out & who dreamt only of fleeing somewhere to escape Islam.
As much as I think your comments are as baseless as many on here I can’t help but find some truth to your statements. Go convert the people you supposedly know so much about. Get off the computer and get on out there. Truth is that you should start with your own first since Islam is spreading much faster. Tend to your own flock before gallivanting out to find the unhappy Muslims. You have found friends here to continue with your slander so use your fame well grasshopper.
I have read this same exact drivel from many of you Islamist and as is always the case, the idol worship is profoundly malevolent and full of rancour. Your faux sophistication fools no one. Never has and never will.
oink oink. If you are one mean pig does that mean you cannibalize your own species when you eat pork? I had to add that. Nice try one hit wonder.
Deart ‘Patrick McCarthy’,
You posit “Last time I checked there was not any Muslims armies in western countries but you can’t say that same in reverse. What invisible war are you trying to suggest?”
It is not an invisible war, Patrick. It is the ISLAMIC WORLD WAR.
It is a guerrilla war executed by infiltrators and insurgents, individual ‘Soldiers of Allah’ like Times Square bomber Faisal Shahzad and the murderous traitor Major Dr. Nidal Malik Hasan.
It is also waged, supported and directed by groups and organizations like the Muslim Brotherhood, al-Qaeda, Hizb’allah and Abu Sayyef.
Islamist Prime Minister of Turkey, Recep Tayyip Erdogan laid it out on the line when he said: “The mosques are our barracks, the domes our helmets, the minarets our bayonets and the faithful our soldiers…”
It is Dar al-Islam against Dar al-Harb….Islam against everyone, everything, everywhere that is not Islamic. It is THE ISLAMIC WORLD WAR, Patrick, raging on every continent but Antarctica.
Inspired by Allah, mandated by Muhammed, commanded in the Koran:
THE ISLAMIC WORLD WAR
It’s real.
~ The Infidel Alliance
Patrick, you’re a Muslim?
Well, you should be ashamed of yourself. There has never been a dumber religion. Oh, I don’t know anything? Hmm, I read Arabic, and I’ve heard the rumors that Muhammad spent his first forty years as a Nestorian monk! (How else could he rip off the Bible so well?)
The alternative is to believe that the Angel Gabriel dictated the world’s most boring book directly to Muhammad. If you believe that, I have a bridge looking for a new owner…
go with the rumors jaafar, you can’t lose following that route.
Which Bible do you propose that was stolen by Prophet Mohammad, peace be upon Him? King James? The one your pastor wrote? The fact is that the King James Bible was not even approved by King James. It was also written many many many years AFTER Islam. Or you can refresh your Arabic and read the Arabic Bible. My breath is wasted here.
“Patrick McCarthy” is not a muslim or black name. Let me guess …
You were a Marxist but converted to Islam cause marxists are boring old farts and not radical enough?
your mom is calling you. try to read all the way down for all the posts before bed time.
I find humor in a muslim calling Israel a terrorist group, check the mirror bud.
It is obvious with your name being Patrick McCarthy that you either legally changed your muslim name or you are a converted american. You sir are a threat to the United States of America. If your an muslim then you are a islamic that believes in the koran. I need to ask you this question if you die killing as many christians and jews as you can and you get your 72 virgins in a months time they will not be virgins anymore whats next? Afraid to answer? I don’t blame you. God Almighty is my heavenly father and the Lord Jesus Christ is my saviour. Isreal is Gods Holy land. We americans have caught on to what your so called muslims are doing. God Bless America.
I have good news for you Folks.
islam is already defeated.
By itself. By its fake religion in which God is NOT infinite Love. By its fatalistic doctrines that by negating free will negate that God is Infinite Love.
Of course these are metaphysical news.
But the “metaphysical” is the only reality that is real.
Great we have a philosopher! Try Sufism with your metaphysics. You need to brush up if you are going to make statements like that. You made many contradictions I’m sure you have no clue about in your post. NEXT!
I notice that you didn’t specify any of the contradictions, you merely asserted they were there. Spell them out and we’ll judge for ourselves if they are contradictions.
For the reasons stated in my post, I will not engage this servant of the servants of evil in a debate. The whole muslim “theology” can anyway be proven to be a fatalistic ideological system, and as such it is not a religion, because its “god” is necessarily and DIRECTLY (these words are of course the key of the debate) responsible for all evil and for all that happens.
Such an idea is the negation of the Perfection of God, hence it is a negation of “God is Infinite Love”.
Saint Anselm is the perfect source for the discussion of this point.
But the only real debate that we must have with the muslim conquerors is well explained at
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com
Greetings:
I’ve become convinced that our strategy must include actions to diminish worldwide the impact of Islam, (not Islamism, not radical Islam, not any other post-modern construct), and if not to destroy it then to drive it into unequivocal disrepute. What the Obama administration’s actions are doing is, in effect, granting Islam an ideological equivalent of the North Vietnamese communists’ sanctuaries along the Cambodian and Laotian borders, and some of us remember how that worked out.
The way forward is to confront Islam, the ideology, directly and often. I’ve read about an Egyptian Coptic priest, Zacarias Botros, if I remember his name correctly, who broadcasts radio programs that elucidate and discuss some of Mohammed’s sexual proclivities such as having sex with his 9-year-old “wife” and sucking on the tongues of children. While understanding the “jihad” part of Islamic doctrine is useful, I think that exposing the depravity, murders, thievery, lying, throughout the muslim scriptures is a better way to erode the thin veneer of religion and reveal the supremacist, political ideology that is the core of Islam. I believe that is why the muslims put so much effort into precluding, and/or punishing criticism of Islam or Mohammed.
What they want most to protect is what we must attack. There is a reason why muslims are so easily aggravated by criticism of their “religion” or proselytization of its adherents by other religions. It’s their greatest vulnerability.
http://sheikyermami.com/2009/06/06/father-zacharias-botros-interview/
Zacarias Botros? Sounds like this guy was trying to pick a fight.
you don’t have to look far for exactly what you are suggesting. Tell me again who is attacking you? Seems like the planning of attacks is from you and your gang represented here. Stop talking about “they”. I am they I suppose. I am interested in fighting you or anyone else. I am not interested in converting you, hahahahaha. I am not interested in invading your home. I am interested in defending my faith from rampant slander and misuse from people with no clue what it is. If you want to be pissed off as moral Americans, go ask to see the records of what happened to all the money we American donated to the victims of 9-11. Ask why the trade center is not rebuilt yet. Ask why my neighbor, a firefighter, injured during 9-11 just lost his house to foreclosure because he could not work do to respiratory problems from all the debris. Any of you Americans want to argue this with me??? I doubt it. Cowards.
Let me remind you that 9/11 was planned and executed by people who subscribe to your religion. Let me also remind you that in many Muslim countries people were dancing in the street when almost 3000 innocent people where murdered here. While I’m at it, let me also remind you that we did not hear a resounding apology and condemnation – only justifications.
With over 15,000 Muslim terror attacks since 9/11 there is no reason for us not to be suspicious about your religion.
And you dare call us cowards? your terrorists are killing innocent people, many in Mosques – now that is coward.
I don’t need reminding. Most of what you say is correct. I did not rejoice nor did anyone Muslim I know. People were horrified and upset at the brutality. Go ask a Muslim you see how they fell about 9-11. I would not suggest walking up to anyone on the street but ask to see an Imam at your area Mosque. You may or may not be surprised at the reply.
This reminds me very much of the Witch in C.S. Lewis’ “The Silver Chair”, when she has Prince Rilian, Scrubb, Jill, and Puddleglum in her spell and is trying to make them forget where they have come from: “Narnia,…. Dear Prince, you are very sick. There is no land called Narnia.”
I refer people to Jihad Watch, particularly the section entitled “Islam 101“.
Patrick, you either lie or are ignorant of your own religion. If you truly believe as you say, than you are the type of Muslim that Roger hopes for in his last paragraph. You would also – by definition – have to be an apostate, or at least a non-practicing Muslim. What most people do not realize is that it is the Iranian mullahs, the Taliban, and Al Quada who are the fundamentalist believers in Islam – who truly practice what the religion preaches.
Patrick, I would ask you the following:
* Do you agree that Muslims in America have the right to convert from Islam to Christianity without threat or action from other Muslims?
* Do you agree that Israel has the right to exist without persecution or violent action by its Muslim neighbors, per the British Mandate for Palestine and the United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine? (There never was any nation of “Palestine”, the area was the Southern part of Ottoman Syria.
* Do you agree that Christians in Muslim lands have the right to worship and to build churches freely, without restriction, and without any special taxes (dhimmitude)?
* Do you agree that the current occupants of formerly Muslim lands (e.g. Spain) have the right to claim those lands as their own without attempted reconquest by Muslims?
If so, then we can live together. However, you would also be an apostate to Islam.
Hello Paul. I am ignorant to some extent but I do not lie. How about you. I’ll get right to your questions:
Patrick, I would ask you the following:
* Do you agree that Muslims in America have the right to convert from Islam to Christianity without threat or action from other Muslims? ANSWER: 100% yes.
* Do you agree that Israel has the right to exist without persecution or violent action by its Muslim neighbors, per the British Mandate for Palestine and the United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine? (There never was any nation of “Palestine”, the area was the Southern part of Ottoman Syria. (I believe that Jews have a rightful place in Israel. Israel existing as a wholly Jewish state I don’t agree with. Are not you people also opposed to any one religion dictating a country? Saying that Palestine is was not a country is not digging deep enough. Who were the Philistines? Same people who were in Israel since the time of Moses, peace be upon Him, and just because your “nature” of country was not the same for them does not negate their rights either.)
* Do you agree that Christians in Muslim lands have the right to worship and to build churches freely, without restriction, and without any special taxes (dhimmitude)?Yes and no. Christians have churches in most Muslims lands already and this is an acceptable practice within Islam. Without special taxes, the Islamic system requires a jizyah which can be seen as a tax. It is used to pay for the services provided from the Islamic government. Different from America which tax free status is abused as well.
* Do you agree that the current occupants of formerly Muslim lands (e.g. Spain) have the right to claim those lands as their own without attempted reconquest by Muslims? If you mean the same as what has and is happening today in Israel I do not agree. Just think if everyone worldwide had the right to go and claim something lost during war or transitions of power. What a mess that would be.
You will probably still try to say I am not a true or practicing Muslim by my replies but it would be you that was incorrect and ignorant. Stop reading extremist Islamic publications or Orientalist publications and have a true look at Islam.
If so, then we can live together. However, you would also be an apostate to Islam.
Roger Kimball,
From reading your article and Andrew McCarthy’s as well, one gets the idea of monolithic Islamic Sharia Law coming in and subjecting the United States and Europe. Not all Muslims subscribe to this notion of universal Sharia Law no more than all Americans subscribe to the notion of a “Christian” United States of America. Gingrich is only trying to stoke the fears of the republican base, which he is so good at doing.
“David W. Walters”? “Patrick McCarthy”? LOL.
So you two, (or are you one?), as Christian-sounding Muslims, (ergo non-threatening ones), assert that Roger’s essay is bunk – there’s nothing to fear from Islam? Those that oppose Islam are ignorant.
In this second post, “David W. Walters” suggests that since Islam instead monolithic, there’s no way Sharia can pose any threat against Western precepts of freedom. Aside from being a wild excursion into stupidity and illogic, such an argument begs an examination of the variants of Sharia which Muslims may wish to adhere to… The two most widely held schools of Islam, boast two divergent forms of Sharia, Sunni, and Shiite. Do these two schools of Islam pose a threat? Let’s run through the check list to see how they diverge:
Death for apostasy?
Check. Both major schools of Islam support it.
Barbaric forms of punishment, including head chopping, hand chopping, leg chopping, for “transgressions” against Allah’s law (Sharia)?
Check. Both major schools of Islam support it.
Systematic hatred of Jews, Christians, etc.
Check. Both major schools of Islam support it.
Genocidal exhortations against Islam’s “enemies” (basically anybody who resists the advance of Islam)?
Check. Both major schools of Islam support it.
Subversion of all secular laws of man and replacement by Islamic law (Sharia)?
Check. Both major schools of Islam support it.
So while Islam may not be monolithic, it really doesn’t seem to matter much. We see the penultimate manifestation of Sunni Sharia in the hideous human sewer known as Saudi Arabia, and the penultimate Shiite Sharia in the festering zoo called Iran. From any sane perspective, both nations are grotesque and obscene abominations, and fair examples of the true nightmare of Islam. It obviously doesn’t matter one bit what loathsome school of Islam your primitive and ignorant Sharia comes from, it is all antithetical to our magnificent civilization, and does not belong here.
Morton,
““Patrick McCarthy”? LOL. So you two, (or are you one?)….”
-Who the hell is Patrick McCarthy?
“….Those that oppose Islam are ignorant.”
-No, but fear whipped up by some seems to lead people to forget their rights. -even Pat Condell has joined in with Newt:
“All you Americans who’ve been following the Islamization of Europe from afar with horrified incredulity: if any of you are still nursing the cozy illusion that it could never happen in your country, it’s time to wake up and rub those sleepy eyes, because the moment of truth has arrived.”
-However I agree with neither Mr. Condell, nor Roger Kimball. Doesn’t our constitution guard against religion dominating the political process to the degree these two try to warn us about? Like Pat Condell, I’m an atheist. But unlike Mr. Condell I do not want to deny any person of faith the free expression of their faith, be it Christianity, Judaism, Islam or any other religion.
“From any sane perspective, both nations are grotesque and obscene abominations”
-I agree. But I just can’t see how Muslims can gain enough clout to change our constitution. In this case, you’ll hear me say “Thank god for the Baptists!” lol
For the last time I am one person and my name is Patrick McCarthy. What does that mean??? Convert from Christianity! Hurray we all figured it out. No need to change my name as I am sure you thought was the case, wrong again.
You are correct about the two dominant groups being Sunni and Shi’a, but thats about it.
Death for apostasy?
Check. Both major schools of Islam support it. WRONG AGAIN. THERE IS NO COMPULSION IN RELIGION AND JUST BECAUSE SOME BACKWARDS ISLAMIC COUNTRY DOES THIS DOES NOT MAKE IT CORRECT.
Barbaric forms of punishment, including head chopping, hand chopping, leg chopping, for “transgressions” against Allah’s law (Sharia)?
Check. Both major schools of Islam support it. SHARIA IS FROM HUMANS. HUMANS MAKE ERRORS. YOU ARE HOWEVER CORRECT THAT THIS PUNISHMENT IS SUPPORTED IN SOME INSTANCES. THEY DID NOT HAVE DRUGS TO KILL PEOPLE THEN OR MAYBE THEY WOULD HAVE CHOSEN THIS. DRAW ON THIS ONE.
Systematic hatred of Jews, Christians, etc.
Check. Both major schools of Islam support it. WRONG AGAIN. ISLAM TALKS ABOUT JEWS AND CHRISTIANS AS PEOPLE OF THE BOOK AND ARE TO BE RESPECTED. AGAIN, SOME RADICAL GROUP SPEWS HATE, LIKE THIS GROUP SEEMS TO LIKE ON THE OTHER SIDE, DOES NOT MEAN THAT THIS IS FUNDAMENTAL TO ISLAM. I HATE NO RACE. MY COMMENTS ABOUT ISRAEL BEING A TERRORIST STATE IS SO OFFENSIVE HERE? SEE WHAT YOU WOULD DO IF SOMEONE HTREW YOU OUT OF YOUR COUNTRY, STOLE YOUR PROPERTY, KILLED YOUR FAMILY, AND YOU HAD NO SUPPORT. YOU WOULD THROW ROCKS TOO.
Genocidal exhortations against Islam’s “enemies” (basically anybody who resists the advance of Islam)?
Check. Both major schools of Islam support it. WRONG AGAIN. EXCEPT IF UNDER ATTACK, MUSLIMS COULD CARE LESS ABOUT THIS ISSUE.
Subversion of all secular laws of man and replacement by Islamic law (Sharia)? SECULAR LAW OF MAN? SHARIA IS LAW BY MAN BASED ON RELIGION.
Check. Both major schools of Islam support it. WRONG AGAIN.
“So while Islam may not be monolithic, it really doesn’t seem to matter much. We see the penultimate manifestation of Sunni Sharia in the hideous human sewer known as Saudi Arabia, and the penultimate Shiite Sharia in the festering zoo called Iran. From any sane perspective, both nations are grotesque and obscene abominations, and fair examples of the true nightmare of Islam. It obviously doesn’t matter one bit what loathsome school of Islam your primitive and ignorant Sharia comes from, it is all antithetical to our magnificent civilization, and does not belong here.” YIKES, I SUGGEST SOMETHING ABOUT ISRAEL AND YOUR OFF ON A TANGENT ABOUT SAUDI ARABI AND IRAN. EVER BEEN? I DID NOT THINK SO. YOU ARE AALL TALK AND OFER NOTHING FOR PROOF. YOU HAVE NOTHING. IF YOU DO, POST IT. YOUR OPINION IS NOT REQUIRED BUT YOUR PROOF IS. COWARD.
‘Suggest something about Israel’? Yes, you did; something hideous and untrue.
Why do you keep referring to those who disagree with cowards? Is there a purpose to this taunting besides making the opponent’s blood boil?
Sorry Larry. True. I also will reply to another comment of yours.
Here is your proof:
Sura (8:55) – Surely the vilest of animals in Allah’s sight are those who disbelieve
Sura (48:29) – Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves
Sura (9:30) – And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah… Allah (Himself) fights against them. How perverse are they!
Sura (8:12) – I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them
Sura (9:123) – O you who believe! Fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness
Sura (5:33) – The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement
sorry you chose Nobody as your screen name, you should have confidence since you supplied quotes unlike many here.
Have a look at Ibn Katheer’s Tafseer to get your “context” to what you offered.
Patrick,
I am sorry you turned your back on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. If you are a young man, you just gave up a lifetime of Salvation through justification to one of uncertain salvation through works. As a Christian, I truly pity you. You committed the one unforgivable sin, Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit by denying Jesus Christ as the Son of God. But don’t worry. We Christians do not behead apostates with a rusty saw. The Father of our Lord is big enough that he does not need puny humans to defend his honor. I truly hope you return to the faith of your birth. But then, you will have to face the rusty saw.
Saalam, my friend
Thanks for not beheading me. I’m doomed if I don’t follow your way of life right? Yikes. You have just isolated 2/3 of the Earth for over 2000 years. Thats a huge amount of people who lived here for no reason.
My question to you: what about the people who never even heard of Jesus, peace be upon Him, are they left on the Earth by God as a joke? How can they be saved? Seems unfair that God would toy with His creation.
InshAllah I will ask the One God, Allah for guidance and not involve polytheism from the Romans in my worship.
No trinity in the Bible, go find it and post it.
Tell us, Pat, what are Saudi Arabia and Iran “really” like. I’ve set foot on the Arabian peninsula myself, but I’d love to hear about how the West is all turned around on our understanding on the House of Saud Wahabbists (who, by the way, absolutely despise Sufism) and those Shia Persians who, in their infinite toleration, decided to hitch themselves to the Aryan bandwagon and officially change their name (while Persians have an historic claim to the title, they seemed especially enamored in 1935 with the European variety).
You seem to enjoy the religious freedoms allowed in the United States and don’t wish to change that by an imposition of Sharia. That’s commendable. But the Muslims who privately worship and live peacefully with other religions don’t generally worry us. It’s those 10% of worldwide Muslims how don’t disapprove of violence. It is those, like Ahmadinejad, who wish to hurry along the return of the 12th Imam — at nearly any cost.
Again, explain to us what it’s like “over there”. And if you could do it without the sophomoric YELLING, we’d all appreciate it.
Hello Ferus Scriptor,
Saudi Arabia and Iran are not my ideal places. There are good people there as well as fools. Sound familiar. Still everyone focusing on Saudi Arabia as the prime example of Islam. Unfortunately today the choice with many in Saudi Arabi is to error on the side of caution to the extreme. I don’t support Wahabbism and most extremists would never accept Sufism. This is can be added to my argument that there is so much division in Islam, not quite like Christianity, but strong enough that each one calls the other apostate. World domination? Of what? Come on people.
In my opinion we all have to worry about religious extremism. All faiths. The 10% out there you speak of is a concern for me as well. I’ll keep trying on my part.
The fact is that there is 100% truth that some of the Islamic lands are living in an age they cannot identify with. Their countries are disorganized, corrupt and confused. Poverty is rampant and standards of any sort have only recently been considered.
You would recognize me by my smile and not my cold stare. I support you. I support the right for the extremists to keep thumping me. It is what it is.
Tell us, Pat, what are Saudi Arabia and Iran “really” like. I’ve set foot on the Arabian peninsula myself, but I’d love to hear about how the West is all turned around on our understanding on the House of Saud Wahabbists (who, by the way, absolutely despise Sufism) and those Shia Persians who, in their infinite toleration, decided to hitch themselves to the Aryan bandwagon and officially change their name (while Persians have an historic claim to the title, they seemed especially enamored in 1935 with the European variety).
You seem to enjoy the religious freedoms allowed in the United States and don’t wish to change that by an imposition of Sharia. That’s commendable. But the Muslims who privately worship and live peacefully with other religions don’t generally worry us. It’s those 10% of worldwide Muslims how don’t disapprove of violence. It is those, like Ahmadinejad, who wish to hurry along the return of the 12th Imam — at nearly any cost.
Again, explain to us what it’s like “over there”. And if you could do it without the sophomoric YELLING, we’d all appreciate it.
Patrick you Mohammedan Taqqiya spouting buffoon EVERY convert to Islam is given a MOHAMMEDAN name as you well know so dont play the silly little games , can you continue to use your original name yes you can but that does NOT alter the fact that YOU have a Mohammedan name now too. You are just trying to obfuscate, lie, and DECEIVE as Mohammad told you to do to kaffirs.
Shariah is an integral part of the Pseudo Religious Arab Supremacist CULT that is Islam and Islams GOAL is WORLD domination and all others will be either Dhimmies paying Jizzaz and living as SECOND CLASS citizens or will convert. So do us a favour when you join a CULT at least learn what it stands for and not just how to make EXCUSES for it.
Last post today. I had to answer you….Pragmatist. Boy did you choose the wrong name. Thanks for the insult and thanks for trying to understand my religion of Islam.
I don’t know what a Mohammedan is but you are off with the Taqqiya shot. Every convert to Islam is not given a MOHAMMEDAN name. Your ignorance is hanging out, I’m so embarrassed for you! (-:
Some people will just not get it and you are one of those people. I don’t offer excuses Pragmatist.
I think maybe you will have fun in Gainesville burning the Quran. You obvious lack of any real academic or religious study which means you are a novice. Keep going and maybe you can contribute something useful later. Don’t forget to pass the extremist area and head right for the moderate line. Something tells me you will not heed this advice and end up a sad extremist like some here.
Sticks and stones…ask your parents the rest of this.
Shariah is an integral part of the Pseudo Religious Arab Supremacist CULT that is Islam and Islams GOAL is WORLD domination and all others will be either Dhimmies paying Jizzaz and living as SECOND CLASS citizens or will convert. So do us a favour when you join a CULT at least learn what it stands for and not just how to make EXCUSES for it.
So, uh, what does “If anyone changes his religion, kill him” (Bukhari) mean?
context. there is no clear cut winner in Islam that has the perfect answer, thus it is left to opinion as to the context. Some say execution and others not. Contrary to popular belief there is room for opinion in Islam, actually a huge degree of room not always practiced today.
Most agree that the Bukhari that you used is also regarding treason. The same death sentence that is offered in most countries today, even America.
http://apostasyandislam.blogspot.com/
“There is no compulsion in religion”
Abrogated: The passage was overridden by subsequent Koranic verses (such as 9:73: “O Prophet! Struggle against the unbelievers and hypocrites and be harsh with them”).
Isn’t it true that Islam says that “no compulsion in religion” applies to non-Muslims (dhimmis), but a Muslim who leaves Islam is considered an apostate, and risks a penalty of death?
More to the point: Muslims immigrating into the West, whether Europe or America, do not try to change the entire law to conform with Sharia all at once. They do so by bits and pieces, gaining acceptance of one bit at a time. Two examples of this are the recent refusal by Muslim taxi-drivers in Michigan to accept passengers carrying alcohol or dogs, or the pressure on the legal system to accept marital abuse as a Muslim legal right.
Punkin, the fears of the republican base is the only thing even trying to deter the obvious railroading of historically proven destruction being passed by proud old incumbent democrats. But strong tea is a cure for many maladies. I’ve brewed my own tea for 40 years seasoned with 200 years of unfiltered history and it really clears ones political vision. By all means try some. It even helps one to spot those that only stir a controversy for lack of a life.
I don’t think I can agree with Newt that we should help our allies in Europe against this affront to free people known as Islam. Twice America has taken on Europe’s burden only to have progressives on that continent squander their new found freedom. I say, screw them and look after the problem at home first ’cause there ain’t no way in heck they will ever come to our rescue.
Nick Shaw is correct.
Not only did these “progressives” in Europe squander our efforts, they come back regularly to snap at our heels, while delightedly voting against us with the rest of that reliable anti-American bloc at the United Nations…that enclave inside United States territory in New York.
General Marshall would be aghast at this subsequent hypocrisy.
I’m with Nick and Charles. Let our “help” to Europe be as a model, demonstrating our own efforts and success at showing sharia-followers the door. Muslims are free to practice sharia — when they return to their native lands. Or stay here, renounce Islam, and become an American. Your choice.
I’m going to stay here and practice my faith of Islam, InshAllah. If anything we should seek the permission of the native tribes that were here before their lands were stolen if we were to follow your flawed logic darcy. Go back to where your family is supposedly winning the war you seek to wage here in America. You can be a winner there or a loser here, choice is yours.
Amen! The most important battle line right now is NOT Afghanistan but the fight against the so-called Ground Zero mosque. If this monstrosity is allowed to be built, it will signal a major victory of supremacy for islamists. The West has forgotten history and needs to reexamine what happened to the Byzantine empire, because the same is planned for the American. Hagia Sophia was once the greatest cathedral in Christiandom. Its fate is a case study of our future if we let them continue to get away with their covert and overt jihad as we continue to placate those who brought down the WTC “cathedrals.” We must begin by impeaching every political leader who gives islam succor. Just say “no”!
I agree with Simon and I think many do. While it’s reprenehsible what happens to women/all in Afghanistan, etc. I’d rather have our troops here, defending our OWN borders and keeping radical Islamists and illegals out. What about that car bomb at the border??? Hello?!? Who knows how many Islamists have already gotten into the U.S. with the open borders we now have? >>>>>> I’m tired/WE’RE tired of rescuing the world. It’s time to rescue ourselves… while we have a country left to defend! (The author is right about the differing methodologies of Islamist… be it bombs or bombast, they are infiltrating our schools and institutions in the name of multicultural “diversity.” We are idiots to keep letting them!)
According to Act for America there are Hamas cells in 40 U.S. cities, and Hezebolah cells in 11.
If this is true, get in there and do something. I heard this and I heard that, blah blah blah. Believe me the moderate Muslims will applaud and cheer getting these extremists out of our communities. Stop talking and act.
NO Trinity in Scripture? Obviously Patrick you are indeed an antichrist.
Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit according to the tradition of men according to the basic principles of the world and not according to Christ. For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; and you are complete in Him who is the head of all principality and power. (Galatians 2:8-10)
Notice: THE GODHEAD.
For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father the Word and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. (I John 5:7)
Notice: THESE THREE ARE ONE.
Your weak and pitiful caricature of God IS NO GOD AT ALL. Your ‘god’ is the devil. It does the works of its father: murder and lies, as it is written
“You are of your father the devil and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie he speaks from his own resources for he is a liar and the father of it.” John 8:44 (specifically the words of Jesus)
…thanks, simeon…
The Haggia Sophia is a nice analogy.
GO SEE WHAT AMERICA IS DOING WITH THE FUNDS FOR 9-11. ALL THIS TALK OF VICTORY FOR ISLAM FOR BUILDING A COMMUNITY CENTER AWAY FROM GROUND ZERO IS APPALLING.
Nobody cares about taking you over. There is no war in America except against racists like yourself. What happened to the Byzantine Empire? Are you serious????? Christian empire that waged war and forced conversions. Do you think that is what Islam wants? No wonder you are so paranoid. Your post is a yawn.
After reading so many responses, I see there is no need really to respond to “patrick’s” idiocy and infantile emotionalism. But just for the fun of it: the jig is up “patrick.” If you believe so much in the evil cult you belong to, why don’t you explain how the acid attacks (click on the link provided by Sadie in 62 to view them) fit into your ideology? Or are you afraid to see what your cult does to women?
And since islam is not a “race,” I cannot, therefore, be a “racist” as you charge. It’s too bad the Crusaders didn’t finish the job. But don’t worry, with the help of the true God and in prayer to break the spell of evil you wallow in, we will.
No islam is a death cult, a mind-controlling evil that epitomizes all that is wrong with a belief system in which men act as the ultimate male chauvinist pigs. And that about sums up your devil-inspired beliefs and false view of history.
Wrong Simeon. Mass media can call you racist for your own description of your own shadow.
But if you really want to expose Patrick just ask him about his favorite Mullah.
And this has what to do with the subject at hand? While objectionable it is not pertinent.
TAX THE MOSQUES!
Think it can’t be done? Read on:
***************
Religious Tax Exemptions vs. Government Policies
Most people are aware that a church or religious organization can lose their tax exempt status for engaging in partisan political activity, like endorsing a political candidate. What many aren’t aware of, though, is that the same can happen for promoting or engaging in things contrary to government policy. Tax exemption is a privilege, not a right.
Tax Exempt Churches: Religious Freedom vs Tax Exemptions & Tax Deductions
***********
Islam totally rejects the separation of church and state. What could be more “contrary” to government policy than that?
“religious organization can lose their tax exempt status for engaging in partisan political activity….”
-Good point, and I’d agree that many mosques engage in some sort of political activity just as some Christian churches do.
-If they do, tax ‘em!
taxes? Islam and church and state issue next? Try going to a Mosque and asking someone what’s going on. Stop by a synagogue also. Maybe even a rival Christian church. I think you are spending too much time indoors and need some air.
With all the problems the ACLU has caused organized religion in this country, it has always amazed me they have never sued over tax exemptions for churches. Why? The more churches in a community, it seems, the higher your taxes will be.
The despotic enemies of America (China, Russia, the statist elements now on the march) are happy to work with the Muslim Brotherhood or similar to advance the spread of Sharia. A population that must pray 5x’s a day is easier to control.
FOR THE LAST TIME, WHAT SPREAD OF SHARIA?????? No Muslim government wants Sharia, yes even the Taliban, because they would be booted out for the gross abuse of power and far from Sharia applications anyway. Go do some research on Sharia, skip the right wing stuff for one day, and come back to me. Give me a break.
Any explanation then for why both Saudi Arabia and Pakistan funded and helped organize the Taliban?
It’s exactly this “go do some research” red herring that causes people to waste time trying to find some redeeming aspect to Islam. If you are not a Muslim, there IS NO redeeming aspect to Islam. Don’t waste your time trying to find one because that only plays into the hands of the Muslims’ “termite strategy” wherein they bore away at the West while we “do some research” on why we shouldn’t just “take care of business” already.
Dear ‘Patrick McCarthy’,
Please stop lying.
The Cairo Declaration of Human Rights in Islam (CDHRI) is a declaration of the 57 member states of the Organisation of the Islamic Conference adopted in Cairo in 1990. It provides an overview on the Islamic perspective on human rights, and affirms Islamic Sharia law as its sole source.
Patrick, the hard truth is that the prime directive of Islam is to implement Sharia law worldwide, as clearly expressed here:
Bukhari (8:387) – Allah’s Apostle Muhammed said, “I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah’”
Universal Islam, Patrick. Universal Sharia law, Patrick.
~ The Infidel Alliance
Um, just wanted to take slight exception to one comment in the article, that on the purported “Western value” of the separation of Church and State. I will concede the sometimes-debated point as to whether the USC 1st Amendment actually provides for this. Regardless, most of the rest of modern Western civilization is NOT so “separated.” Most European nations still have official established churches, such as Britain (C of E) Germany and the Scandinavian nations (national varieties of Lutheran), Poland (R.C.), and most of Eastern Europe has re-adopted Orthodoxy, even after nearly a hundred years of Communist efforts at extermination. Further, much of South America is officially R.C. as well.
So the bare fact that Islam does not subscribe to the US non-Establishment principle shouldn’t be of concern. Just about everything else, though, well….
The US Constitution has NO separation of Church and state anywhere in it. You’ve confused it with Article 10 of the old Soviet Constitution or perhaps tenet # 9 of Humanist Manifesto 2
Like Mein Kamph which telegraphed the horrors of WW2, the horrors of WW3 are telegraphed in the Koran.
well you have access to the Quran so it should not be a surprise for you. WHAT ON EARTH ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT??? MOST OF YOU ON THIS THREAD SCARE ME MORE THAN ANYWHERE ELSE. YOU ARE THE REAL ENEMIES TALKING ABOUT WAR, INVASIONS, ATTACKS….I support taking out ALL Terrorists – Muslim, Christian, Jew, you get the point? This fear mongering is for the sake of what now? don’t look now but those commies are planning to attack, watch out for those ruskies! Oh sorry, wrong time frame…sounds familiar though huh? Think for yourselves!
He apparently read the Quran. You apparently have not. The first three chapters are convincing enough, and the principle of abrogation explains – demands – that all who read it understand that most of the tolerant passages are to be ignored – by Muslims.
Well Patrick, If the Koran is the word of god unchanged by Mohammed, then it only has one message: Kill the non muslims or enslave them. Now i dont know whats on gods mind, but mohammed must have caught him on a really bad day. And oh, by the way, the Koran is used as the justification for the muslims to kill civilians randomly and without pretext which the Koran also forbids. But one cant be to chosey when the subjugation of the Dhimmi’s is required. And whats the deal with the mullahs? If the koran is the word of god. who are they to interpret it? Sounds fishy to me.
used to say back in the day just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they aren’t out to get you. the lawfare being waged, is a prime example of this war being waged by like minded people. libel suits in foreign countries to shut up critics of the plagiarized religion.
my hat is off to this website that actually posts conflicting views and allows for some heated debate. TRUST ME, I AM NOT INTERESTED IN ANYTHING MORE, DEBATE RIGHT?????????????????????????????????
Kid you could even become another presidential candidate. His party needs another silver tongued applicant but a name change and some airbrushing would be forthcoming.
Just telling it like I know it. Glad you like my approach. I have been called a smart mouth but rarely much else. Hate me as you like LocalYokel. In the end let Allah decide.
Islamism is a red herring. It’s political Islam that is the problem. That means Islam proper, not this attempt to isolate a “small minority of misunderstanders of Islam.”
Until you define the enemy properly you will continue to lose the war, as you make strategy to counter a falsely defined enemy….all the brilliant tactics in the world wont achieve victory, if the strategy is wrong, because you dont know what your enemy is.
Its not Islamism, its Islam.
Roger is right, spread the word – sharia. I’ve emailed & spoken to various friends and family members over the past 2 months, all who have moderate Muslim friends. These friends & family members were unfamiliar with sharia. They were also unaware that Islam is a religious, political, social and economic ideology; they believed Islam to be merely a religion.
I’ve explained the concept of sharia and asked if they knew whether their friends accepted the supremacy of sharia; of course they didn’t know. Most of my friends & family are hardcore leftists & I’ve got to say, it’s the furthest I’ve ever gotten in any discussion since I can remember. Plant the seed: sharia.
The thing is though, convincing “progressives” that America has a shari’a problem is going to be, by far, the easy part.
Getting up the will to actually resist it is another matter altogether. Just to scratch the surface, that would mean having to choose between that and their precious, lofty ideals of pacifism, tolerance, multiculturalism and unlimited diversity. Which one do you think is more likely to win out with most “progressives”? (Hint: You know those bumper stickers with the word “Coexist” formed out of religious symbols? Notice that the Islamic crescent comes first in the row… and the Christian cross last.)
Right now Islam looks like the minority religion being attacked by the majority religion’s followers merely because of religious bigotry.
To change this dynamic you need to judge Islam by secular values and show how far it falls from them, especially those dear to the left:
-gender equality (in Islam a woman’s testimony is worth half a man’s for one),
-homosexual rights (homosexuals are supposed to be put to death),
-tolerance for religious diversity (Islam does not tolerate all religions – Jews and Christians get to be dhimmis, other religions (especially polytheists) and atheists their followers have the choice of conversion or death (death can be commuted to enslavement),
-abolishment of slavery (slavery is not prohibited in Islam, sex with female slaves is not prohibited in Islam (right hand possession)),
-separation of religion and state (does not exist in Islam),
-freedom of speech (basically in Islam it is you must say Islam is a religion of peace or they’ll kill you or some version of that, check out Pakistan’s blasphemy laws that it is trying to get made law world wide through the OIC “Pakistan’s Crackdown on the Internet Shows What ‘Global Blasphemy Code’ Could Look Like” http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/59532 ),
-artistic freedom (Mohammed in his time had artists and anyone else who defied him or felt dissed him killed, and his followers today continue this – cartoons anyone?),
-freedom to choose one’s religion (apostates have a very difficult time, and in more fundamentalist societies face life threatening situations)
It is because they are not the majority in the US that they get protected from the majority which looks like has all the power. But strip away the minority/majority dynamics and evaluate Islam neutrally by secular liberal values and Islam falls far short and stands for just about the opposite of the values of the left.
I’ve become convinced that our strategy must include actions to diminish worldwide the impact of Islam, (not Islamism, not radical Islam, not any other post-modern construct), and if not to destroy it then to drive it into unequivocal disrepute. — 11B40
Yes, you need to squeeze the worldwide public space for Islam. That means no quarter in Christian nations. Zero. Repatriation of Muslim immigrants to their homelands and or the homelands of their forebears. A policy of containment within those lands.
On top of that, the West should fund (similar to what the Soviets did to the West) revolutionaries in Islamic lands, those that would undermine Islamic civilization and Islam the religion, disempower it, discredit it, academic attack upon it. Feminists, Atheists, Seperation of Mosque and Statists, peace activists, tolerance promoters, equal rights for women and minorities, gay rights and normalization, etc The whole kit and kaboodle, no need to reinvent the wheel, the playbook is there to plunder. Make it very profitable to be an underminer of Islam in Muslim majority nations.
Full out ideological war on Islam. Squeeze those bastards. Shrink the global public space for Islam.
For our Islamist apologists – we’ve got your number:
The Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown by barbarians invading from without and multiplying from within.
–Will Durant, The Story of Civilization
“Islam destroyed India. There is this ill-informed idea that it was the British, in the short time that they were there, that ruined and defaced all those temples you see. The bitter fact is that the people of India were ill-equipped to face the organized military power of Islam and were destroyed by it. The intellectual life of India, the Sanskrit culture, stops at 1000AD. Islam was the greatest calamity that befell it. Now people think only the Muslims built anything but what they brought was a slave culture that lasted in some parts of India until almost the other day. To be a Muslim you have to destroy your history, to stamp on your ancestral culture. The sands of Arabia is all that matters. This abolition of the self is worse than the colonial abolition, much worse.”
–VS Naipaul (Nobel Prize, Literature, 2001)
“I’ve been aware of madness in the Islamic world. I’ve written about it. The madness of people who have fallen behind technically, and who do not have the will to make the intellectual effort to catch up. I was aware of the religious hatred, I was aware of the indifference to life. I was aware of the anti-civilization aspect of the new fundamentalism. But I had no idea it had gone so far — the madness. The idea of their strength is an illusion. Nothing is coming from within. The terrorists can fly a plane, but what they can’t do is build a plane. What they can’t do is build those towers. I think people have spoken much rubbish about that event. The poor revenging themselves on the rich! It’s nothing but an aspect of religious hatred. And that is so hard to deal with, or even contemplate. You can deal with the poor striking out, but you can’t deal with the threat of a universal religious war.” Though he approved of the recent war in Afghanistan, he is keenly aware of the inherent absurdity of the current war on terrorism: “Your biggest enemy is your great ally — Saudi Arabia — and the foot-soldiers of the terror come from your other ally — Pakistan.”
–V. S. Naipaul
Those who dedicate themselves to the destruction of a free society are unfit to live in that same society. The West has forgotten its history and has worked to expunge the ideas and the values that have been responsible for its freedom and its prosperity. For all its faults those vaules are infinitely preferable to the death-loving, culture-killing madness and cruelty of Islam – and also to the concentration-camp culture of the Gramscian, Machiavellian Marxists who seek to rule us now. We contest for our surviavl against two perfectly matched abominations: the will to submit (Islam) and the will to power (Marx).
Lee Harris concludes his Civilization and Its Enemies with this:
Dear ‘Ward Dorrity’,
Thank you for your important references about the Islamic Jihad against our Hindu & Sikh brothers in India.
We in the west tend to forget about this front of THE ISLAMIC WORLD WAR.
It’s savage and brutal, and has been going on for centuries.
Let’s not forget our Buddhist brothers in Thailand, and our catholic brothers in the Philippines, both also facing THE ISLAMIC WORLD WAR.
Please keep your informative posts coming!
~ The Infidel Alliance
my hat is off to this website that actually posts conflicting views and allows for some heated debate. — Patrick Murphy
This isnt your typical Leftist or Islamic site, whose views are based on so much unreality that people have been indoctrinated with, that the posters have to be shielded from truth, facts, and reasoned arguments….to maintain the faith.
I have written replies in the past on other sites that never showed up, this site however does post the replies and in a timely fashion. Even while offering praise you still try to spin in into nonsense. You need to speed things up because the lack of velocity has caused coagulation.
The fact that we in the west — the freest, most prosperous, best-governed and the most powerful peoples in history — anxiously regard a ragtag collection of bloodthirsty barbarians to be an existential threat speaks volumes about our divisions, our timorousness, our moral confusion and our pathetic lack of resolve.
A good part of beating bullies is just a matter of standing up to them, without even raising your hand. It tends to make them slink off. Sadly, the west can’t even summon the resolve to do that.
These days, “disproportionate response” is generally understood as “excessive response”, but we easily fail to appreciate other forms of so-called “disproportional response”, some of which can be “inadequate response”, some of which can be “misdirected response”, or some deadly combination of both. Before the nation was finally moved to react after 9-11, it failed to react to “lesser” offenses such as the Cole suicide bombing or the two embassy bombings in Africa.
Even earlier, some 54 years ago, when Gamal Abdul Nasser took control of the Suez canal in violation of international treaties, this act of open hostility, towards Great Britain and France in particular and the Western world in general, was motivated by the muslim brotherhood. This was only one more example of the Western world failing to respond adequately and decisively to islamic challenges.
This offensive was due in part to Nasser’s inability to control the muslim brotherhood, then (as today) the main internal opposition to Egypt’s nominally constitutional republic. The muslim brotherhood itself was inspired by leaders like Sayeed Qtub and Hassan Al-Bannah, starting their ideological campaigns (books. speeches, grassroot organization, etc…) in the 20s, themselves advocating for the restoration of the supremacy of Islam in the Middle East after the Ottoman empire’s fragmentation in the aftermath of World War One. This is in full agreement with the basic Islamic priniciple of eventual world supremacy of Sharia law, as mandated by the islamic holy scriptures, and their authoritative interpretations by highly regarded islamic scholars, even to this day.
What in the world motivated Sayeed Qutb and Hassan Al-Bannah? They, like today’s other islamists, professed their humiliation as a result of the shattering of the Ottoman empire in the aftermath of World War One. But it does not really matter whether it is the ban of the headgear in France, the cartoons in Scandinavia, the presence of US military in Saudi soil and in Iraq, Afghanistan or even American counselors in Pakistan, or the fall of the Ottoman empire, the gripe is always the same: The western world stands in the way of the 14 centuries old tradition of Islamic expansion, in the 21st century perhaps even more so than ever before in history.
We, the West, are the ultimate transgression against the prescriptions of their holy prophet and their absolute arbiter, which is in fact arbitrary, as clearly spelled out in their authoritative documents. This is in absolute contrast with the judeo-christian teologies, in which the creator is rational, in the sense that his ways can be understood, as the success of science in the judeo-christian world testifies.
It does not matter if we in the West are not inclined to see it that way, for a strange and dangerous combination of unchallenged cultural assumptions and historic ignorance. What matter is that’s how the islamists see it, and that’s perfectly clear if one pays attention what they say, and what their books say. Their books teach the pursuit of a totalitarian state, witout any geographic limitation, in other words, global rule under shariah law. There is no need to nuance this, it really is as simple as that!
Some 200 years ago, Jefferson created an expeditionary corps known today as the “US Marines” to stop the Islamic practice of collecting a passage tax from all non-islamic vessels and into the Mediterranean sea. At that time, the US merchants did not object, and simply considered the well-enforced bribe as a cost of doing business. Jefferson knew better, and prevailed, militarily, which solved the problem for two centuries. Last year’s US response to the Somali piracy of a US merchant ship, with the successful intervention of the elite US Navy seals snipers, was a “reminder” of the capitulation of the islamic pirates under Jefferson’s special mission of the brand new (or perhaps more accurately yet to be formally created) US Marines.
These are two useful prototypes of the proper response to the contemporary islamic challenges: They do understand military defeat when it comes to them, and even more importantly, they do accept it, because it is alright by their books and by their lights that they lost that particular battle, because it is alright after the fact to see that this how Allah wanted it.
So, except for considerations of scale, the islamists are no different from ordinary bullies: There are only two ways to deal with them: The common way is to accomodate them in the short term, which is only the Oh-so-smooth and Oh-so-sophisticated way to submit to them in the long term, and the uncommon way: confront them and defeat them. Each one of us better decide for oneself which of these two responses is the more proprotional and the more effective. Why do most people assume that confronting and defeating the bullies is not going to work? Not because it is not true, it is, but only because the examples are to few and too far between in time and in space.
Thank you, Mr Gingrich, for bringing it into the light, and making it harder for the incumbent media to ignore.
Dealing with the barbarity that is Islam is quite simple and requires us to look to the canine world. In canine social interactions, there is an established hierarchy. It is established primarily by one thing: strength. The strongest male rules, and weaker males are driven out or subjugated.
Dog politics. Strength deters aggression; weakness encourages it. Appeasing aggressive behavior invites attack. Avoidance of violence signals submission.
If you show fear or weakness to an aggressive dog, he will bite you. If you project weakness to a Muslim, he will kill, convert or enslave you as his depraved, pedophile-worshiping totalitarian ideology commands him.
Check your work with a real English Professor and real History Professor before you post. Don’t count on getting tenure because your work is soft and of no academic value.
I have never heard of a real Muslim without an Arabic name. “Patrick McCarthy”, what is your real name? No self-respecting Muslim would use a Christian name such as Patrick except for purposes of taqiyya.
I have no doubt that sharia stands for peace and social order. The type of peace sharia espouses is the peace we find in cemeteries after Islam has arrived; social order under Islam is something like the pax romana. You will have to look that one up since Muslims are ignorant of Western history and concepts–and, for that matter, of just about everything else worth knowing. Embracing your pathetic “Noble Quran” is retrogressive nonsense, intended only for the most benighted of souls. Do NOT think you will ever spread the pall of your ignorance over the West. I will enjoy sending many of your brethren to their 72 virgins while bringing their carbon footprint instantly down to zero. I find the current Administration’s efforts to reach out to Muslims through NASA pathetic. Most true Muslim believers are still hung up on a pre-Copernican view of the universe. Good luck with that one, Obama.
missed this one. Copernicus? Nice to bring up a thorn in the side of Christianity. But you can always change viewpoints as your system falls to the ground. Invent, change is the name of your game. Keep chasing your tail Bellerophon. That feeling you have is being dizzy not mystic Ecstasy. Am I too fast for you? Any answer or do you even have a clue what I am talking about?
There’s a reason Islam is predominant primarily in countries where the average IQ is below the global, non-Muslim average. It’s because you have to be a near-moron to believe in the tenets of Islam. I mean, the idea that the “original” version of the Torah taught Islam? Yeah, MAYBE someone could have believed that in the 7th Century because, hey, they didn’t exactly have archeology, philology and literary scholarship back then, so I guess to some gullible people it would have been plausible.
But, come on, this is the 21st century and we know for a FACT that Islam’s claims to being the “original” revelation is complete and utter tripe.
One of Islam’s major screw-ups, as a religious and metaphysical doctrine, was including claims which could be empirically shown to be false. Yet, since much of Islam’s claim to legitimacy rests upon those same claims, anyone with half a brain can see Islam is a faith whose foundations are built on air. And, no, I don’t mean that in some fancy poetical metaphor about how even though Islam is built on a foundation of nothing, that really means it’s built on something. The “religion” is complete junk through and through. That there are a billion people who believe in it just goes to show that, as Nietzsche said, nature is profligate in its wastefulness.
venevidivici how true the CULT of Islam is just an INVENTION by the paedophile so called Prophet (who never made ANY prophecies) Mohammad. Who was also a Narcissist,misogynist, polygamist, thief, murderer and slave owning warlord (its all in the Surah and the Sahih aHadith) and they are just his GOOD points LOL.
OK. I will bite your bait. What empirical proofs did you come up with? So far you have offered nothing but hot air. This is not the first time. You don’t have much to say but conjecture which is not a surprise since that is what all of Christianity is based.
Same with you Hate Express – Infidel Alliance. What version of the Bible do you prefer? There are so many to chose from. What about the Apocrypha? Your dirty little secrets hardly even mention anything about Jesus, peace be upon Him, even dying. Thank Paul for that one. Having visions about Jesus while taking a trip, peace be upon Him, and then killing and threatening anyone against him. Ask your Pastor to explain this one to you and see him do the Texas Two Step…
3 words for you Hate Express. Council of Nicea. When was that by the way? Strange that you would need such an important meeting if the original messages of Jesus, peace be upon Him, were not being completely ripped off and changed. Notice how I or any other Muslim would not dare to belittle, destroy, mock, and slander any Prophet of God. Unlike you and some of the other fools on this site.
Made extinct!!!! Not just defeated.
Islam is a Political movement disguised as a religion.
CAIR’s founder, Omar Ahmad, said in 1998 that “Islam isn’t in America
to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Koran …
should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted
religion on earth.” (San Ramon, CA., Valley Herald, 7/04/1998.)
Sorry Mc Carthy. It is too late now as the WORD no longer has its meaning.
The time of GUN has come.
Your explanations and justifications are as valid as those given by the COMMUNISTS who were (and still do) pointing that it was not the ideology itself that was faulty but the INDIVIDUALS (Stalin, Lenin, Mao) who have distoted it. That the basic premise of COMMUNISM (or in its slightly more benevolent version -socialism) has always been the so called “social justice”.
This is a NONSENSE I had to live through for the best part of my life.
Idiots like Bani Sadr or Sadek Gobsadekh who have supported HOMEINI and were his closest associates have also dreamed about the “just” Islamic Republic. Both ended up (ant two hundred thousand like them) being tortured and shut.
It is being called “The revolution is devouring its children” rule.
You can attempt to spew your nonsense about mistic meaning of your dreamed out SHARIA in the same fashion the COMMUNISTS were spewing their nonsense about social justice of socialism but those 16 000 terrosists act commited by ISLAMISTS speak for themselves.
And don’t be tempted to abuse the cannard of Hiler having been a Christian. Hitler was a SOCIALIST and has also admired the ISLAMOFASCISM.
I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt to those who claim that Radical Islam — the world view that gave rise to al Qaeda, et al. — does not speak for Islam, the world religion. But two things I know without any doubt whatsoever: 1) the ranks of Muslims who share the violent jihadi mindset of Radical Islam numbers in the tens of MILLIONS; and 2) Radical Islam is not a religion (like Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, & so forth), rather, it is a death cult: a suicide death cult run by cruel, soul-less mafia dons of the goat-humping ilk. For those Muslims who don’t fit this description, I say: SUCK IT UP and DO something to defend your faith and your brethren from the evil animals who claim to speak for you. Otherwise, prepare yourselves for what you have coming to you.
Excellent, excellent article until the last paragraph: Our allies are the Muslims who embrace our freedom culture. I’m still shaking my head that such a statement could be included in the same article that rightly says Islam should be defeated. Were there any “freedom loving Nazis” who joined the allies in WWII? I think not. Ex-Nazis perhaps; the same holds here, perhaps ex-Muslims will be our allies, but Muslims!? We have a better chance of enlisting the aid of the tooth fairy.
What I find beyond amazing is that we are STILL debating what Islam REALLY is after all we have seen and heard just since 9/11, not to mention the previous fourteen centuries. Any one who has been observing the actions of the followers of the Religion Of Peace with any intellectual honesty at all should realize the obvious: they want to subjugate us, or failing that, kill us and when they get the opportunity, they do it. What more do we need to know. Our discussions should no longer be about what Islam really is, how to accommodate it, or how to assimilate Muslims, or indulging in fantasies about fictional creatures e.g. “freedom loving Muslims”. We should be devising strategy to defeat and eliminate Islam. Not only for our benefit but for the benefit of the more than a billion human beings who have, for all practical purposes, been dehumanized by the barbaric excuse for a religion that is Islam.
This “Patrick McCarthy” would do well on “Saturday Night Live”, or…maybe….one of the tenants of “Fawlty Towers”.
He’s discovered the CAPS key, I’ll bet the veins are sticking out from his neck.
This is not to make light here of this type of tirade. We must make these types of rant part of our learning curve.
Remember… the Muslims/Islamics are very adept at this new thing for us called “Lawfare”. Inch by inch…one step at a time…a concession here, a new demand there….step by step……
…..Methinks this “Patrick McCarthy” doth protesteth too much.
Old English! Are you serious? What kind of American are you?
P McCarthy – for some reason unfathomable to me – you are defending a cult that would have man forfeit his rights to the dogma of islam. Tell me P McCarthy – if islam is so benign as you state then why is even the most westernized islamic place – Dubai – still engaged in barbaric islamic laws and repression of individual rights? How can you defend a “religion of peace” that spawns so much repression and antipathy towards liberty? Check your premises.
Roger, everything that you say about Islam is true so why are you silent about them invading us through our insane LEGAL immigration policies?
If we want to be safer we must stop ALL Muslim immigration.
One last thing thing, please spare me Newt’s new found passion against the followers of the wicked Muhammad. Two years ago he was proposing a despicable trillion dollar boondogle to “rebuild” the Middle East without even addressing the problem of Islam. After that he joined Pelosi on Global Warming and then he was off with Al Sharpton on his next fiasco. The man stands for nothing. We are fighting Islam for our very existance. Stay home Newt!
Andrew McCarthy gets it. He realizes we must not only stop them from coming here but also start deporting those who follow Muhammad’s commands. Andy’s one of the best!
So – let’s try a thought experiment. Suppose you could not live in your current country – it didn’t
exist. But you can pick any place else to live. List those countries. Where does the first Muslim
country appear on your list Patrick? Just asking to see how much you really believe in teh benefits
of a Muslim run society.
I have lived and worked in both cultures for extended periods – and I know which I prefer.
Wait a sec…
“Islamism is not a movement to be engaged, it is an enemy to be defeated.”
Okay, that I understand. It sounds very clear that Islam is antithetical to Democracy, peace and the American way. All followers of Islam adhere to shariah and wish to overthrow our government and or destroy our way of life.
Yet all of a sudden at the end Roger agrees with Newt and McCarthy, “Our allies are the Muslims who embrace our freedom culture — those for whom sharia is a matter of private belief…”
So now I’m confused a bit. How do we rally the troops against this threat only to come to such a milquetoast conclusion?
Again, I don’t agree with any of this but it’s my assumption that most people here are anti-islam and feel these people should be removed from our country by force if necessary. I mean, lets get past the semantic argument over how horrible the present administration is for not calling this a “War on Terror” because you don’t simply win a war by identifying the combatants. If you’re protecting the Western World and America, aren’t you advocating “something” be done?
I’ll admit it sound’s a bit ominous, the solution to the “Islamist Problem” in our country. But lets say we won’t go that route, we’re Americans and we don’t throw groups of people in camps, well unless they’re Japanese… or German… or illegal immigrants. Okay, skip that or maybe we don’t skip that because maybe that’s what you do because this is a war against Islam and we look back years from now and say we aren’t proud, but it kept our people safe or something.
At any rate it’s unpopular, but at least it makes sense from the beginning premise that we on the Left are making excuses for Islam and coddling dangerous elements. Instead Roger simply ends by agreeing that we should support non-threatening Muslims who follow Islam but who presumably aren’t the same as all Islamic followers.
I don’t get it.
You have FDR to blame for throwing Japanese Americans in camps. Is anyone advocating putting illegal immigrants in camps? Get real.
Maybe what Roger is saying is that Islamic culture has to change and that we should not settle for anything less. Is that impossible? Maybe. But should we be defeatist about changing Islam the way the left was defeatist about us standing up to communism?
Obama’s recognizing the stolen election in Iran and failing to support the opposition there is a disgrace that is unfortunately typical of the left.
Is anyone proposing to round up illegals and put them in camps? Well, yes.
The plan is to arrest illegals and send them to “Tent City”. They are in violation of the law and will be incarcerated. Joe Arpaio and other law enforcement are charged to round ‘em up and deport them, and keep jailing and deporting them until they realize they should stay away from Arizona.
Anyway, getting back to Islam, Roger isn’t clear about what he means, but if we take it that Muslims are okay if they convert and embrace Western values that is problematic. What America is effectively saying is that we allow for freedom of Religion — except Islam.
Lets suppose we require followers of Islam to convert or renounce their religion. That’s fair isn’t it? But then we’ll have to check up on them and make sure they’re not really practicing Islam behind our backs. But this sort of thinking seems to fall in the same pattern as the Spanish inquisition. So, maybe we’re not holding an auto da fe, but again, we’re straying from what I’d like to think makes America exceptional, having the freedom to practice your religion whatever that may be.
Being jailed and deported is not the same as being put in camps like the Japanese Americans were during WWII.
No one is arguing muslims have to convert or renounce their religion. But that does not mean we have to tolerate practices that run counter to our traditions and laws. And yet that is what some demand. Unfortunately the so-called moderates are silent. I have no problem saying traditions like jihad and honor killings are depraved. I have no problem criticizing Islamists who are openly anti-semitic and anti-western.
Being jailed and deported is not the same as being put in camps like the Japanese Americans were during WWII.
I was not equating the two, just answering your claim that this is not happening. Remember, I’ve said that illegal immigrants are breaking the law. Like I said, I just don’t think “Operation Wetback II” will be looked upon with great love and affection by historians.
Back to the original bit on Islam…
All I understand from your last post is that you’re against anti-American islamic elements. Heck, you might as well slap an Obama bumper sticker on your car. What real difference is there between your position and our president (we’ll leave the conspiracy folks out of this)? Do you think we need to talk this out more with Islamic leaders? Maybe have them sign a declaration that they are pro-American and don’t support extremist elements?
Start with that position and you’re suddenly advocating that we sit down with Iran and explain why they don’t need nukes and we can all sing kumbaya together.
Lefty – I spotted that weird conclusion in the article. I am not sure what, in practice, we in the
West can do. I think on balance military action, concentration camps and the like are not the best
way forward (but may be expedient in some circumstances)
No – I think it will be the “soft power” – trade, education (especially of the women folk), a
constant reinforcement of the ideals of secular, “liberl” democratic principles that will in the end force Islam to collapse under its own contradictions.
Is Sharia in the White House? ‘Destroy your enemies or enslave them and subject them to an onerous tax’. I think so. If you are a Muslim you are already dead. Anyone who rejects Jesus as the Son of the Living God is dead and has no life in them. Our forefathers knew this and that is an undisputable fact. Argue all you want, make as many reasoned points as you may. The truth is what it is. Read the constitutions of all the States in the United States. The God in whom we put our trust is God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
There is still time to open the door and accept Jesus Christ as your savior even until the last hour. So we hear the watchmen on the wall sounding a warning: “he who has ears let him hear”.
Islam is the religion of death.
‘Ateenee Ka’sa, Salwatin ‘An ‘Azaan-il-Muazzinin
O Fetch me a cup of Wine,
To Distract me from the Muezzin’s Call To Prayer
(Abu Nuwas d. 814)
————————–
More than a thousand years ago, the ribald, rollicking and celebrated Arab poet Abu Nuwas (He of the Dangling Locks), living in Baghdad, bemoaned his lot in life and the strict restraints of Islam that was his daily fare.
Criticism of Islam since its appearance has been unending and sometimes ferocious, both internally and externally. In medieval Spain, revulsion against Islam eventually led to the expulsion of Moslems for all time in 1492, though it took 700 years for this to occur.
In more modern times, this criticism has focused on the Sharia and its apparent unrelenting drive to supplant every other existing system of law world-wide.
That the Sharia could attain this world-domination objective (because that’s what it is), is a possibility.
But in my estimation, it’s a very remote possibility at best. There are simply too many obstacles in its way.
Against modernism, Islam simply dissolves, disintegrates and lashes out in desperation (Bin Laden and epigones).
It’s chances for success are almost nil.
The real threat to Islam is internal: it crushes the human spirit. As such, it belongs to a distant past and while it appears threatening at first, eventually it becomes comical.
Bombs won’t destroy Islam…..jeering and laughter will.
Islam will die in a torrent of ridicule, mockery and contempt, not missles.
The best description along these lines remains that put forth by the British missionary in Afghanistan, the Reverand P.T. Hughes in the Preface to his book: “Notes on Mohammedanism” (1894) (available in reprint).
This is a must read for anyone truly interested in the history of Islam – a treasure-trove of information very difficult to find elsewhere (for example, he lists the “99 names of God”).
Here’s his devastating description of Islam: no one today would dare write these words:
“Notwithstanding its fair show of outward observance, and its severe legal enactments, there is something in Islam which strikes at the very root of morals, poisons domestic life, and (in its truest sense) disorganizes society.”
“Freedom of judgment is crushed, and a barrier has been raised not merely against the advance of Christianity, but against the progress of Civilization itself. It is impossible to account for this peculiar feature in Muhammadan nations by attributing it to the peculiarities of Oriental races, or other accidental circumstances. The great cause lies in the religious system which they profess, which binds them hand and foot.”
“For everything in religion, in law, in life, and in thought, has been measured for all time. Muhammadanism admits of no progress in morals, law, or commerce. It fails to regenerate the man, and it is equally powerless in regenerating the nation.”
—————————
“BINDS THEM HAND AND FOOT”…..I like that and how true.
Should be required reading in every high school (and college) in the nation.
A veteran of Desert Storm once told me about something he witnessed while stationed in Saudi Arabia awaiting deployment. He and the others there were restricted to certain areas. The restrictions were lifted for a particular day to allow some of the foreign troops to see Sharia Law at work.
He saw hands and heads chopped off. They didn’t stay long, there were more punishments to be carried out, they felt they’d seen enough.
He told me that what bothered him most of all was how the crowd responded. It wasn’t a solemn event, like an execution of a prisoner here in the US. He said that it was quite obvious that to many people in the crowd, it was their idea of entertainment.
The dark ages must be so much fun, since radical Islam wants to share it with the rest of the world.
This would be hilarious if it weren’t true.
And where have you read this? It should be the first item of news everywhere.
The guy who tried to blow up LA International Airport on Millenium Day ( 2000) has now requested US asylum. Unbelievable? The judge is considering his request seriously!! That’s unbelievable!
http://jewishdailyreport.wordpress.com/2010/08/01/muslim-terrorist-applies-for-us-asylum/
Read about Mohammad and all the people he killed, raped and assassinated. Read about the 20% take in all the loot he took. Did Jesus, Buddha or Confucius murder thousands and take a fifth of all the loot.
More to the point: I can look in the writings of Jesus, Buddha or Confucius and find specific directions to not act in that way. Any Crusaders, for instance, who looted a city are to be rightly condemned. You are hard pressed, however, to find any writing in the Q’ran that forbids any such actions against non-Muslims; to the contrary, it is endorsed.
…. Aren’t we beyond all that hawkish, “divisive” talk about the conflict of “civilizations?” …
Sure we are. Way beyond and right up to the place where we realize the enslaving, raping, sexually mutilating mass-murdering barbarous ideology called Submission – by any other name – is the Anti-Civilization and its battle is for the destruction of Civilization. Of Judeo-Christian/Western/Human Civilization, that is. That Civilization.
“Radical Islam” is The Beast — and “Moderate Islam” is but its Trojan Horse.
Or, to put it another way, we may “engage” and/or accommodate” Islam with all the success — and same life expectancy — that a sufferer from metastasizing Melanoma may engage and/or accommodate that malignancy.
This is their religion?
http://blogs.tampabay.com/photo/2009/11/terrorism-thats-personal.html
Our “being reasonable” culture here in the West has made us a partner in our own demise, so to speak. We still haven’t realised that the Islamic view of life is as different to ours as oil is to water. This, added to the fact that (to draw an analogy) our Western governments are the snake charmers and we are the snakes being charmed – we’re running out of time to make things different and safer for Western culture.
Patrick McCarthy I’ve taken it on board that this thread has made you uncomfortable, so I’ll say this. You say you’re against ALL terrorism. Have you said so to some of your co-religionists? Have you tried to reason with those that want to kill Kufr? If you haven’t then I don’t consider you have the right to criticise people in the West who see the very real danger of what Islam is, and what Islamism does. They, as indigenous peoples have the total right to be against it when it’s forced on them by stealth or force.
One more question for you – you talk about access to the Koran. Which Koran do YOU have access to – the pre or post Mecca one? I’ve read both, and I KNOW that the post Mecca one is the one taken notice of now – the former Koran’s peaceful message has been abrogated in favour of the warlike totalitarian approach. Because there is no central Council of Imams to drive consensus, this works for Islam, too, wouldn’t you say -just looking at your post leads me to believe the confusion it causes to you, a Muslim, is another way to drive its agenda.
Thanks for the chance to reply Node:
I am not uncomfortable. Most posts are crude and out of context but some are good.
I have never met anyone that even remotely suggested what everyone is spouting off on here about Sharia, world domination and killing anyone. This will still leave a huge hole for the hate mongers to reply I am a liar or whatever. The people with any clue know I make valid points, add some opinions, and join the sarcasm as anyone else. They still may disagree but you don’t see them acting without class.
Come to a Mosque during Friday prayer, there is a speech at the beginning and see if you find your expected want-to-be-murderes and so on.
I can’t believe that you used the words indigenous people. American Indians, Native Americans…they had every right to defend themselves but they could not so just forget about that right? Might makes right, right?
The Quran has pre and post Meccan included. They are not separated but maybe someone has organized them in that fashion to make it easier to study.
There is some confusion but fortunately there is a large resource of writings that have not been clogged by Orientalist attempts to discredit. The lack of a Khalifa is indeed an issue that can cause confusion and is causing confusion.
An interesting article and discussion. Here’s my take on several points:
1. Islam is not the Religion of Peace, it is the Religion of Pieces.
2. Whenever a Muslim utters, Allahu Akbar (God is Great); something really BAD is about to happen.
3. Patrick McCarthy = taqiyya (and not even a convincing practitioner of deception)
We face this threat from Islam today because we have let the body and mind start to rot. Specifically, we are succumbing to diseases such as secularism, political correctness, multiculturalism, the promise of utopia and other corrupting progressive ideas. Islam is just another manifestation of these illnesses.
‘Straighten up and fly right’ as Nat King Cole used to say. Our salvation (small ‘s’ emphasized) lies within us. Its time to push back and rediscover what made us great and grow a spine.
jhstuart says in post #46 “Our salvation (small ’s’ emphasized) lies within us. Its time to push back and rediscover what made us great and grow a spine.”
Tell me Mr. Stuart, what other tenets of the Humanist Manifesto 2 do you adhere to? Our salvation lies not within us, but in Jesus Christ. Humanist Manifesto 2 is as much the word of satan as the Qu’ran. A steaming piles of faeces from the colon of satan are the both of them, full of lies.
your filthy and slanderous words are only a turn-on for your other extremist friends and not everyone here. write to the hate express – infidel alliance, they he/she will lend you their ear.
I suspect the other peace loving Muslims, Christians and Jews that have opted to not post are of a higher class then all of us here. Try as we may the dirt has been flung which is a strategy long understood as a failing one by all faiths. Allah help us all.
What, in my opinion, Islam is in need of is a knocking down a peg or two. We need to stop pussyfooting around it. No respect from non-muslims. Derision by comedians. More cartoons. More mockery of its outdated tenets. Hollywood films narrowly focusing on all its worst aspects. A comical and derisive fisking of the Koran. You know, exactly the way Christianity has been treated. Where is the Monty Python gang when we need them? Where is The Life of Hamid. They can’t kill us all for trying.
Maybe you are right. It may do some good to get all this nonsense out and see what happens. Life of Brian was great. I can’t wait to see Life of Hamid. Very funny. Glad to see a sense of humor around here. You have had over a thousand years to stop Islam but still can’t seem to get it right. Why don’t you invent another branch of Christianity to take this on since the Evangelicals are thinning as we speak! Good luck.
If we base our understanding and definition of Islam according to the quran, the ‘haditha’ (books that have to interpret the meaning of the quran ‘cos it’s a mess) and the many teachings of Imams around the world then we would conclude that there is no such thing as ‘moderate’ Islam. That being said, I suspect that there are millions of unsuspecting muslims around the world who would be eternally grateful for an opportunity to be free from the despicable tyranny and resulting misery visited upon them if they truly understood what was up…as for us, infidels, Big Mo’ sez that muslims must give us a choice: Convert or die.
Patrick McCarthy has given us a classic example of a tactic that is being used against us everywhere; there is a specific name for this technique which I can’t recall, but it means “to use their own tactics against them”. Very clever; and very simple to do with secularism, pluralism, multi-culturalism, progressivism promises of utopia. Crystal clear examples are before us constantly…and political ‘lawfare’ is the preferred vehicle it seems.
The modus operandi of these stealth jihadists is a plain as day; but somehow we’ve allowed them to keep doing it.
This IS a national security, matter and at this point we have a clueless president…his handlers are feeding him a dangerous line of BS regarding Islam. The WH and the halls of Congress are rife with apologists for Islam; this is; in part, what emboldens the likes of Patrick McCarthy.
No Ground Zero mosque…No more UN and their OIC (Organisation if Islamic Nations) spewing anti-semitism and America- hatred which, amazingly; we are funding…Root out and deal accordingly with every organisation that fundraises both types of ‘jihad’.
God help us all if you find any sympathizers with your words. Let the anger out. Go to Church, Mosque, Synagogue or whatever you subscribe. Better yet, maybe you need to change the place since they have not been able to show you a way that is not radical and extreme.
A few suggestions for dealing with Patrick McCarthy and his ilk:
1. Forget about arguing. It only entrenches them in their views.
2. Note the methods by which they argue, dodge, overlook and so on. These observations will be needed when the more violent or the intransigent turn up in courts or for interviews (for jobs, citizenship, visas etc.)
3. Develop ways to make it easier for “moderate” Muslims to support Western civilization. For example: require anybody wanting a passport or a visa to check off a list of things they have NOT done to support Islamism (e.g. I have not made financial contributions to (names of orgs.) If at renewal time, the renewer’s name comes up on a database, that visa or passport is not renewed until an explanation is provided. Over time, this inability will become a critical liability. The truly moderate will tell their co-religionists, “Sorry, my family will suffer if I do what you want.”
Paddy McCarthy is a Christian plant sent to prove that Islam promotes a failed human condition.
Islam IS a failed human condition.
No one, at least no one in their right mind, would bother discussing this half-baked religious cult called Islam if so many of its followers were not already in the US. But they are and, so, this discussion is necessary.
After 9/11 Bush could have ended Islamic emigration once and for all but chose, like he did with so many other important issues, to make the wrong decision. He even bought into the nonsense then being peddled by Islamists doing damage control at the time that Islam was a “peaceful” religion.
Sooner or later Islamists will commit another outrage and the already pent up anger American have toward Muslims will explode. If I were Muslim I wouldn’t want to be in this country once my fellow Jihadists pull off the ultimate terrorist attack. Mosques will be attacked and many, many Muslims will be killed. Get out while you can followers of the “Religion of Peace.” Or stay and get what you richly deserve you have coming to you.
And the Germans living nearby the death camps swore thy knew nothing. Selective blindness and logic-tight compartments.
It’s equivalent today is Political Correctness and Tolerance. Tear the cover off these concepts and you will discover pathology.
The only way Islam can continue to advance in Western culture is for the Westerners to continue in Ignorance and Denial. Perhaps this is the origin of “Denial isn’t a River in Egypt”.
PATRICK McCARTHY, obviously another drunken Irishman just spouting off, no big deal.
nice to stereotype an entire country and nationality! Not to mention your fellow Christians. Don’t worry, I don’t drink so you can feel safe with me on the road when you are driving home drunk.
Nice to see the fellow posters here did not chastise you for your un-Christian words.
Bill Perron, another one hit wonder. Make a valid point or go find one.
You, Sir, have obviously not immersed yourself in the “Noahide” laws. I also think we will smirk in another three years time when the Muslim Airliner theory has been totally debunked. Sharia is not the concern. Hows about the crimes we now support against Christians in a place called Gaza?
Me? An American, born and bred – but – not inbred like too many idiots who no longer are able to discern information properly.
Speaking of idiots………….
Hey Jeff. This is a tough crowd here and you are not going to win any friends talking slop. Christian or not. Make a valid point or just be a one hit wonder and move on.
As someone who believes in God, I might even try to appreciate Islam except that it is a movement fueled by pure hatred and it turns every nation in which it rests into totalitarian garbage—to put it politely.
as hard as it is to admit it, you are on the money with the current assessment of Muslim countries. Try as they may, the race to the bottom is still going strong.
Islam does two things:
1) It terrorizes and savages the entire ‘Infidel’ world, and
2) It enslaves 1.5 billion humans, Muslims, who are denied the freedom of thought, freedom of speech, freedom of conscience, but most importantly it denies them the freedom to love their fellow human being.
Islam, as many people here have so lucidly stated, is the most vile curse ever inflicted upon humanity. It has brought nothing but violence, death and misery for the Islamic and non-Islamic world alike.
The destruction of Islam is the greatest human rights imperative ever faced by humanity, for never has such a single ideology caused so much human suffering.
ISLAMO DELENDE EST!! – Islam must be destroyed!!
~ The Infidel Alliance
The Internet gives everybody a great power to scope history and learn all they want fast, given that they have a guide on what to search for. Scope Islam’s complete history free with the Historyscoper and arm your mind with knowledge and facts at jet speed at http://go.to/islamhistory
Scope Jerusalem’s history back 3,000 years free with the Historyscoper and see how Muslims got in control of it and why the Jews not Arabs have always had the historical right to it and surrounding territory at
http://historyscoper.com/tlwjerusalem.html
Keep up on daily news of Islam around the world free:
http://historyscoper-islamwatch.blogspot.com/
Anyone who would understand the tenets of Islam would do well to buy a copy of “The Reliance of the Traveler”. This book, available on Amazon, lays out in great detail the things a good Muslim must know to fully submit to Allah.
The author of this translation (full title: “Reliance of the Traveller: The Classic Manual of Islamic Sacred Law Umdat Al-Salik”) says:
“I began translating Reliance of the Traveller in Jordan, out of personal need for a shari’a manual, to know and practice Islam in my own life. Making it available to others was an afterthought that came to me after I had set out to produce a work in which I could look up the questions that I needed to know without having to memorize it all. I had moved to Jordan in 1980, and lived near Amman in Suwaylih, with many students and teachers of the University of Jordan’s shari’a college…”
The book has an uncommonly fine binding, which is important for such a valuable reference manual. I read it all the time, opening to a random page, just to remind myself how truly un-Western and alien is this politico-religious belief system.
At the Amazon page you can click on a preview of some of the pages. Pay particular attention to the Index; it will give you a feel for the nature of the book and for those things which are important to a devout Muslim. Hint: absolutely everything is important, right down to how you wash or what foot goes first into a bathroom.
http://www.amazon.com/Reliance-Traveller-Classic-Islamic-Al-Salik/dp/0915957728#_
I promise you: this book will forever change the way you view Islam.
Actually, muslim communities all over Europe are demanding Sharia courts for:
Inheritance (girls get half),
Divorce (all male demands met),
Marriage (polygamy),
Business contracts (weighted against the kufir)
Child custody (men can marry off their underage children)
In the UK, these demands have been met – girls are now being taken out of school and sold off to uncles etc. to provide them with passports, sex, and free housekeepers.
Some of the English schoolgirls are starting to fight back – being raped tends to make them disgruntled, and the police are beginning to take notice. However, thanks to 20 years of lies about it all being “cultural” and “religious sensitivity”, young girls are having a hard time getting and keeping their lawful rights. Many are not believed. Mainly because soc. services listen to people like you.
I don’t care whether you are a muslim, Woden-worshipper or astrologist – your lies cause suffering. Suffering is bad. Therefore you are a bad person.
Mr. Kimball, I must disagree with you on two issues: First, that this is a war against Islamism – it is a war against Islam. Second, that there are moderate allies within Islam.
I have long looked for a way to agree with you on these two issues, but at the end of the day I cannot. The Koran says what it says and without a reformation and a purging of what some have called “the political Islam” from the Koran, something that I see as impossible because you would be purging the word of God, you have a movement that at its core is seeking a political takeover of the world and one that seeks not only to expunge non-believers, but those who don’t agree with all tenants of this movement.
Dear ‘Swamp Thing’,
It is not a ‘a war against Islamism – it is a war against Islam’.
It is a War of Islam.
It is the ISLAMIC WORLD WAR.
Islam against the Jews, Protestants, Hindus, Sikhs, Zoroastrians, Baha’i, Copts, Catholics, Chaldeans, Pagans, athiests, women, homosexuals, islamic apostates.
Start calling it what it is.
THE ISLAMIC WORLD WAR
~ The Infidel Alliance
“Our allies are the Muslims who embrace our freedom culture — those for whom sharia is a matter of private belief, not public mission.”
Mr Kimball. Good article, but your above quote would indicate you condone a muslim’s private beliefe in sharia. What about muslim women who have no right to private beliefs. Their saharia salve holders get to determine what their private beliefs shall be. Are these slave holders the kind of allies we want to embrace?
Here’s an excellent footnote,article and website to the above posts.
http://moneyjihad.wordpress.com/2010/08/01/special-report-guyana-islamic-trust-touts-work-with-muslim-brotherhood-affiliated-charities/
Thanks, Sadie!
Islam equates itself with the state. There can be no separation of church and state. The “church”, i.e. the mosque, is the state; the Islamic clerics are the dictatorial government, selected much like the capo de capo and capos of organized crime. Like many so-called other religions and political systems, the oligarchist leaders live by a different set of rules than they want to enforce on the masses and they live very well.
Islam demands for Islamic law to replace all other law.
Islam does not allow or tolerate any other religion or no religion.
Islam is opposed to democracy, freedom of speech, oh, and “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness”.
Islam imposes the death penalty for minor offenses.
Islam is a male chauvinistic tribal based culture. And an extreme one at that – if female does not conform to the required subjugation, she may or will be beaten, scarred with acid or killed.
Islam arose from Mohammed, who was a failed, small time businessman – then failed small time gangster until he whet off to his cave one day by himself and came up with a great new scam (well, not entirely new) – the idea that god ordered him to rule the world, plunder and kill all who opposed him, rape their woman, enslave their children and divide up whatever he didn’t want for himself with the thugs who worked for him.
The Islamist and Islamist apologists can argue all the nuances they want -
I know several Islamists and they didn’t kill me;
Islam has been hijacked by a few hundred million bad apples, the rest are really OK as long as they are the minority, don’t have weapons of mass destruction, don’t have swords to cut off our heads and don’t make us wear baraques;
Most Islamists are really good people – they are just afraid that if they come out against murdering innocent woman and children in the name of Islam that some of the few hundred million bad apple Islamists will hack their head off with a dull knife;
Verse 2, page 5 of the Quaran could be interpreted to mean “try to talk the infidels out of their beliefs” even though it actually translates as “unless they submit their beliefs and money, chop the infidel’s head off”, which is really just a quaint old Arabic tribal expression;
Whose to say that the Judeo-Christian, Western culture is any better that the Islamic culture? Take a look at Afghanistan, Iran, Somalia, northern Pakistan or any place where Islam gained control. Any of you want to live there? (Saudi Arabia is the rare exception if you are a member of the Saudi tribe.)
The answer is that Islam is antithetical to our beliefs and values (and our necks) and the sooner we acknowledge that and quite deluding ourselves the better our chances of surviving.
3 words: stoning to death.
don’t bother w/ a rebuttal, any of you muslim-loving apologists. m
patrick, me boy,
Tell me (being the good muzlim that you seem to be), who is a better deceiver— you or allah?
Better answer this correctly or “no paradise for you” and I know that you know the answer to this cause you’re a muzlim, right?
(for all you kuffars out there, the answer can be found in the koran (8:30) and in ishaq (page 323, section 479) heh, heh, heh……………………..
In the Name of Allah, The Most Gracious, the Most Merciful
I ask Allah (God) to guide me and those that seek to cause chaos to the straight path. Forgive me for any errors that I may make in discussing Your Will. Forgive us all for the divisions we cause in Your Name.
Ladies and Gentlemen we are at a pivotal time in our discussion. This discussion has been a success in understanding and communication regardless of the manner that has sometimes graced these pages. I naively bit off more than I can chew by choosing to enter into debate with you fine people. The broad range that has been represented here I think is admirable however I do regret my initial juvenile posts that have resulted in the same. Those that have correctly identified my sophomoric attitude know which statements I am referring so I don’t see a need to rehash that mistake again.
The plethora of directions to follow in my reply has left me nervously cautious. I am honored that I have been given the platform to speak to the many opponents of my faith represented here. I also accept the responsibility to speak accurately as well as respectfully. I cannot possibly answer all arguments that have been raised due to the massive amount of time needed for that endeavor and a serious lack of scholarly knowledge on my part. I’m afraid that I would just help keep the barriers up with my own ignorance. My goal is to seek like minded individuals since that is how I know to communicate best. Those that have been asking where all the moderate Muslims are consider this your answer. You have officially met a moderate.
There requires some clarification in a few areas as we move forward. My name is indeed Patrick McCarthy or Paddy is fine as some have referred to me. I am a Christian revert to Islam. I am an American from birth and my parents were not first generation immigrants. I am certainly not a mole since I have been direct from the beginning which would make me one of the worst moles possible. I commend those that have researched Taqiyya however it has been used incorrectly for me and I suppose it has been misunderstood by most here. Those here that understand the dangers of translating complex foreign words without the knowledge to do so are aware that context is not always apparent. If you still don’t accept the above as truth, I bid you farewell and you are free to assume of me what you like.
The extremists that propose that I am doomed to eternal hellfire and have resorted to slander, name calling, and insults…I will let your own weed you out just as I hope will be the case for my faith. Allah’s mercy is infinite in its capacity for me to make suggestions on how anyone will be judged. If someone would like to bankroll me to continue each and every point I would happily agree. It would be a wonderful job in my view. Sadly I have to keep this as focused as possible on the issues that I feel can be opened to discussion with some possibly of a resolution. Pandora’s Box and the can of worms is all too tempting but most likely fruitless. Sorry extremist but this is not for you. I humbly bow out of contention with you and you can claim victory from the retreating Muslim based on my inability to joust with you. There are a million ways for you to trash me so have at it.
The original topic was Shari’a. Where everyone is getting this notion that Muslims here in America and abroad want to implement it here has me dumbfounded. I have never at any point in my years as a Muslim, while living abroad or in America, heard anyone discuss the need for Shari’a in America. What I have heard is how much they admire America for already holding so many similarities that relates to Shari’a. It is a common joke if you will about America being more Muslim than Muslim countries. Let me be clear in my position, I do not support the need for Shari’a in America. The American system offers everything that a Muslim requires to live here. If there was an inability to live here as a Muslim I would be required to find another place to do so. Since my rights are protected here there is not a need to relocate. Shari’a is a social system made by men and is not handed down from Allah as a compilation requiring book form like the Bible and Quran.
Serious flaws to your arguments of imminent Shari’a implementation are noted below:
1. No Muslim country today is ruled independently by Shari’a. Try as you may it just does not exist.
2. Saudi Arabia is not the be all and end all of Islam and Shari’a exists in shattered fragments. I assume everyone knows the Taliban was not even close either right?
3. The complete lack of Muslim countries to even agree on what day of the week it is puts a wrench in your theories of world domination. Anyone that has been outside of America in a Muslim country knows the idea of world domination is absurd. Most of these countries can’t stand each other and are not united in the least.
4. American Muslims, not all but a majority, know the freedoms they have in America and are grateful to be here. Shari’a is not even on the back burner or any burner. There are radical Muslims that exist that want this but as I have said I have yet to meet one. Those people tend to run in isolated groups that are more connected to their home country radicals then finding ones ready for them here.
5. Just as Shari’a is misunderstood by many people posting here it is also misunderstood or unknown to most Muslims here.
6. Shari’a would be a plus for most Muslim countries since the majority of Muslims worldwide live in serious repression from their own governments. Rampant corruption and poverty has left many with hope of any system coming to their rescue. I would support Shari’a in this environment however I would also be fooling myself to think that any nation today would be able to implement it properly.
Suggesting that I am anything else but an American or I am against the values of America is preposterous. I’m looking forward to football season more than most here on this post. I am as American as anyone else. I support your right to be a bigot and I support your right to not like me. I support your right to wage your campaign against Islam just as I support those that will oppose you. I support your right to your opinion. I support your right to live in a safe country. I support your right to raise your children even though my way may be different. I support your right to impress intolerance and racism in your children and I support my right to try not to do that in my children. I think you get my point and I am not painting all here with this broad brush that you are all racists or do in fact indoctrinate your children into hate. The point is that I agree to your right to be against me and the means that you use to refute me is between you and God.
Now comes the part I will try to reply to some of the posts directly that I feel made legitimate arguments or observations, minus the slander. I will reply directly on the website to each one for those interested in reading.
In conclusion, you will never see me attack Christianity or Judaism since I have the utmost respect and admiration for both. I prefer those that are strong in their faith because I know they are not the ones engaged in this war talk. They are the ones who Love God and seek to please God. This seeking is not through forceful action but through humble action and example. You are the people I most likely fight with to see who will hold the door first and longest. These people that will let people in traffic and wave after being cutoff and shown the finger are my friends. The people who accept God as one and worship no other have my ear. You may have already shaken the hand of a moderate Muslim and never knew it. One that has no desire to see you harmed and no desire to do anything but try and serve you for the sake of God.
Thanks for the 10 minutes of fame and feel free to rip into me as you like or reply as you like. I can’t guarantee that I can keep this pace up since I have already spent the better half of 3 hours writing this reply. Sorry, but spending time with my family takes priority over this. Oh, and plotting the takeover of the world has me exhausted! Laugh a little people.
Kind Regards,
Patrick McCarthy
You lost me at ‘hello.’ Nice try, though.
Point taken.
However you can’t possibly say Israel is not a terrorist organization. Unless your idea of terror is different from mine. Who knows maybe it is. I’d like to see what you would do if someone came to your property and said it was theirs and did this to your whole country. Nobody came to help you. You would be throwing rocks also and be appalled that everyone was calling you the terrorist.
Dear ‘Patrick McCarthy’,
Please answer a few more questions for us.
As recorded in the Islamic ‘holy’ texts, Muhammed was a murderer, torturer, amputator, decapitator, mutilator, slaver, looting stealing thief, rapist, human trafficker, sex trafficker, child rapist, sexual deviant, kidnapper, misogynist, perfidious liar, genocidist and self proclaimed terrorist.
By any objective standard, Muhammed was one of the most vile and disgusting men in the pantheon of human history, a brutal barbarian, a self important narcissistic consumed by unquenchable sexual lust, greed and power.
Far from being a a ‘holy prophet’ Muhammed was a sadistic sociopath, a 7th century Arabian Hitler – only worse, a successful Charles Manson, only creepier and more evil.
Yet, in spite of these facts and truths, the Koran 68:4 upholds Muhammed as “…an exalted [standard of] character.” Islamic tradition upholds Muhammed as ‘al-insan al-kamil’ or ‘the perfect man’, to be emulated by all Muslims.
Patrick, as a Muslim, do you believe Muhammed exhibited an exalted standard of character?
Do you believe his personal examples, as the ‘final prophet’, set the highest standard of human morality?
Do you believe that all Muslims should emulate the examples set by Muhammed?
Or do you reject the personal examples of Muhammed and reject him as an exalted standard of character (therby rejecting the Koran as well)?
~ The Infidel Alliance
the hard truth about Muhammed, is that
M
3 hours wasted writing a long winded empty reply without one syllable of sincerity, have another drink Irishman, you earned it working so hard in your obviously insincere stupor.
Oh really? You mean you’ve never heard of anyone trying to impose Sharia, “islamic laws” here in the U.S? Let me remind you sir. What about “hizbu-ttahreer”? Do they ring the bell? What about not so long ago these barbarian group who are banned from many countries,announcing to the world here in our country to get ready for the “new world order”, bragging that islam is on the rise? Does that ring the bell sir? What about on the streets of London, islam chanting “screw democracy”, death to the infidels, slit the throats of the infidels and the nonbelievers, does that ring the bell Mr.? Until when you people are going to think in your minds that the American people who love freedom are stupid? Keep living in the state of denial. By the way, you said that you converted to islam? Let me ask you this, what language do you read your quran? English? You are not allowed to read the quran other than Arabic? Do you speak Arabic? Can you read in Arabic? Do you understand the suras, the versus in the quran in Arabic? Prove it and let’s see what you know. Unless you are reading in Arabic and not “understanding” a single word you’re reading. Do you know that islam are not allowed to read the quran in any other language except Arabic? Do you Mr. Irishman, speak Arabic? Do you know that 60% of the meaning in the “English”, translated quran is lost its true meaning in Arabic? I challenge you to read certain pages that I choose for you in the quran in Arabic and let’s see if you understand the meaning of what you’re reading. What about the “hadith”? Have you read the hadith? Have you read it in Arabic? Have you noticed the major contradictions between the hadith and the quran that you’re reading? Where is the “fatwa”, decree against those losers who translate the quaran to English? I thought that your prophet Muhammad ordered that the quran must not be read other than in Arabic language. What happen to obeying the orders of your prophet and your alla? Get a life man, get a life.
Lets stick to America Sam. For each example you provided their is a counter example for any hate monger or group not associated with Islam. Your points are minuscule.
You just alienated most of the people on this website and not just me with your poor choice about the Arabic language. If I don’t know, you don’t know and nobody else here knows, thus we are all fools. Your logic is flawed and novice.
Your ignorance is hanging out also Sam. I’m so embarrassed for you! (-;
As if an Irishman could not learn another language. I’ll let them slap you around Sam.
I don’t mind being your tutor for Islam as long as you put in the effort. I doubt you will but lets see. Start reading “The Sealed Nectar” which will answer many questions you have. Feel free to ask me any questions that you have.
Global Jihad’s biggest Victory: Non Muslim nations/US/EU teamed up with Islamic nations – demand vulnerable little Israel surrender half her Holy Land to Muslims bent on Jewish genocide-70% of PA Muslims support savage suicide bombings of Jewish innocents.
In a massive victory for Islam, against their will, Arab Christians of Judea and Samaria were cruelly placed under brutal occupation of PLO/Palestinian Authority. End the Arab Muslim occupation!
The Free World is in a fight for her survival! Never surrender to the global jihad onslaught! Not one inch of Free World Jewish Land to barbaric, implacable enemies!
Never agree to vicious and evil ethnic Jew cleansing!
Confront the cancer.
Someone posted some verses of the Quran to prove that Islam is a violent religion.
Could one perhaps find verses in the bible to prove that Christianity is a violent religion?
Someone who believes neither in the Quran, nor the bible may be justified in condemning both books for being violent.
But the onus is on those who believe in the bible, and yet criticise the Quran for verses that seem to support violence.
Why does the bible contain this?
“Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.” 1 Samuel 15:3
And there are many more from where the above is quoted.
Sigh. Munir, you are only making a fool out of yourself. The sections of Scripture to which you refer were commands given to the Israelites at specific times and places for specific purposes. They were never intended to be generic rules to live by.
Unlike the Q’ran, which was written by one man over a period of perhaps 30 years, the Judeo-Christian Bible was written by over 40 authors over a period of about 2000 years. The Old Testament is a history of Israel and its interactions with God, the New is a history of the early Christian Church and its teachings. (That’s a very brief summary, I know). If you want a general summary of Christianity, Jesus phrased it quite well: ” “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.” (Mat 37:40)
Munir, you’d have a hard time with the New Testament—Jesus is the victim of violence, not the perpetrator; He certainly doesn’t exhort His followers to spread the Kingdom of Heaven, by the sword, or to make war upon all those who don’t believe in him, until the end of time. The Koran does exhort this. It also claims that dying in war to spread the faith is the best thing a believer can do. Jesus preaches nothing like this.
As for the Old Testament, there are many books in it: Psalms, The Book of Ruth, Job, The Song of the Songs, which, while they might describe human suffering, and evil, don’t advocate violence. The violent books of the Old Testament are mostly Kings, Chronicles, etc.—which are histories of the Jewish people. They’re bloody, because history is bloody. Also, the injunctions about smiting the Amalekites, etc., are, according to Jewish theologians, one-time things: they were one-time things, for one particular battle, or war; they weren’t supposed to be carried on forever, whereas the Koran does call for jihad to be waged until all the world is part of Dar-al-Islam. Certainly, the Jews have more often been the ones smitten throughout history, than the ones doing the smiting.
Patrick,
Did they not teach you anything in muzlim school?
allah is the name of the muzlim god. ilah means god. Am I gonna have to teach you? Surely not. This is the last time I give muzlim training to a muzlim. Many references but go to sura 52 verse 43. And, oh, you haven’t yet answered my question on who is the better deceiver.
Munir,
Until 19 Christians hijack some planes, slit the stewadesses and pilot’s throats and fly said planes into buildings killing everyone while yelling “Jesus is Great”, I’m not gonna worry about Christians or Jews for that matter. But since muzlims did it and I read in their holy books that their so called god says it’s ok, Yeah, I got a problem with that.
And I’ll tell the both of you and anybody else that cares to hear——– A GOOD MUZLIM IS A TERRORIST, A PEACEFUL MUZLIM IS A WELL TRAINED TERRORIST.
There is no peaceful islam (hell, muzlims even hate each other. look at this weeks Time magazine)
You guys gotta stop saying: “read the koran”. Some of us are.
Don’t you hate it when the infidels are smartasses?
Hello jsobieski,
I did not go to a Muslim school.
ilah does not mean God but rather it means “a God” Using the name Allah predates God since English came about a long time after Arabic. You do know that the Arabic Bible calls God, Allah right? Yikes, your ignorance is hanging out, I’m so embarrased for you! (-;
Don’t you just hate it when you get thumped?
As far as deciver, it means from all those people who try to deceive, like you, Allah will protect us because nobody is better at anything over Allah – God.
Too bad you can’t hear all the laughing from your own community of posters right now. Even they are embarrassed for you.
Did they not teach you anything in muzlim school?
allah is the name of the muzlim god. ilah means god. Am I gonna have to teach you? Surely not. This is the last time I give muzlim training to a muzlim. Many references but go to sura 52 verse 43. And, oh, you haven’t yet answered my question on who is the better deceiver.
Munir,
Until 19 Christians hijack some planes, slit the stewadesses and pilot’s throats and fly said planes into buildings killing everyone while yelling “Jesus is Great”, I’m not gonna worry about Christians or Jews for that matter. But since muzlims did it and I read in their holy books that their so called god says it’s ok, Yeah, I got a problem with that.
And I’ll tell the both of you and anybody else that cares to hear——– A GOOD MUZLIM IS A TERRORIST, A PEACEFUL MUZLIM IS A WELL TRAINED TERRORIST.
There is no peaceful islam (hell, muzlims even hate each other. look at this weeks Time magazine)
You guys gotta stop saying: “read the koran”. Some of us are.
Don’t you hate it when the infidels are smartasses?
a NATION cannot fight a RELIGION. only popular.
the mosque will not stand.
… unless it is surrounded on all sides by largER CHURCHES. fair is fair.
go ahead. there are so many churches that have been created out of Christianity, you people will be fighting each other before long. Lets see you have people of other races in your churches. I’m sure some here don’t care but I’m also positive nobody would want to share their seat with someone not like them. Deny as you like but you have your own internal problems that are very well known. I don’t need to highlight too much because your dwindling numbers and raising extremists are enough for all points to be verified. Look out belooooooowwwwww, down you goooooooooo.
Roger Kimball – Gut Gesukt (well said) – Islam is not a religion; it is an aggressive totalitarian political ideology pretending to be a religion; it is a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
“Our allies are the Muslims who embrace our freedom culture — those for whom sharia is a matter of private belief, not public mission. Our enemies are those who want sharia to supplant American law and Western culture. When we call out the latter, and marginalize them, we may finally energize the former.”
Check out out Alglo Saxon’s comment also; “The truly moderate will tell their co-religionists, “Sorry, my family will suffer if I do what you want.”
These are the kind of comments that allow confusion into the fray and an open door to the Taqiyaa spin-meisters to flatter, familiarize, act as equals and then move in for the kill. We cannot be double-minded regarding Islam and that’s what makes me a little concerned about Newt…he really ought to know his enemy before venturing into comments about private/public Sharia. Sharia is Sharia period; and expansionist Islam means to subdue all cultures especially American law and Western culture. To deceive oneself into thinking otherwise is to provide a platform for double-mindedness, deception and confusion to enter as I said before; witness the rambling of the Taqiyaa-meister Patrick McCarthy and the naive comment of Anglo Saxon…
Terry, Eilat – Israel is right on the money.
your rambling is incoherent. Double minded?
Thanks for adding me into your post. You can’t hang with me HUSKY.
My guess is, like so many before you, that your own are embarrassed for you.
I am by myself here and not many can do much else besides offer slander and bigotry, most but not all. Boo hoo for me. That’s why it is nice to thump you.
I wonder how much this Patrick McCarthy knows about his allegedly peaceful religion. Did he read the Sirat Rasul Allah (Muhammad’s biography)? Or the sahih ahadith of imam Bukhari and imam Muslim? The Muwatta of Malik ibn Annas? The Sunan of Abu Dawood? Tabari’s Tarikh ar-rusul wal-muluk or Ibn Sa’d's Kitab Al-Tabaqat Al-Kabir? Did he study the Reliance of the Traveller: The Classic Manual of Islamic Sacred Law (sharia) Umdat Al-Salik by Ahmad Ibn Lulu Ibn Al-Naqib? These are the bare necessities if you want to know about Islam.
Where was he recruited? In a US penal institution? Many new Muhammadan mumins are prison inmates. Had he in all seriousness study the fundamental texts of his faith? Prison inmates have time enough, after all they are doing time.
Two possibilities: 1. He was given the sugar-coated version of this religion and really believe in the peacefulness of Islam (the Sufi version maybe? But the not so peaceful al Ghazali was a Sufi too). 2. He did know the true essence of Islam and its criminal prophet and swallowed it hook, line and sinker, accepting all the consequences. It means that he is now a member of a criminal brotherhood.
good post. Yes I have read and continue to read. There is much information that I will be reading until I die, InshAllah. How about you? Keep readin the rest of the posts and adding al Ghazali is a first and congratulations for you.
Why don’t you join some of your fellow Christians and whip yourself or get nailed to the cross. Are these acceptable for you Mulhid?
It’s about time that people starting openly recognizing that Islam is not a religion but a political ideology aimed at controlling all aspects of our lives. As a subversive political ideology it it not entitled to any protection or deference.
I would like to see in every media and every article published in America to mention the word “sharia” means right next to it, so the rest of the people who still in their pajama might start to understand what this so-called sharia means. Sharia is not a fancy word. Sharia means “islamic laws”. Again sharia means islamic laws. Every time you hear this fancy word, remember that it means islamic laws. What does that mean sharia, islamic laws? Well, look no further at these middle eastern countries and its people, and how they live under their government imposing the sharia laws which means islamic laws, such as Saudia arabia, Afganistan, Pakistan, Indonesia. Oh yeah I forgot the greatest Satan on the face of the earth, none other than iran. Look well how every woman must not leave her house without having the “net”, the Burqa, covering her entire body. Look well at the streets of these countries how the sharia police, which again it means islamic laws police, to target the women who are not covered with these veils from top to bottom. To target any man and woman who are holding hands or kissing and they’re not married. But that is not it. Islamic laws are very harsh and you must do your due diligence on the topic to understand how dangerous it is and how your freedom is risk permanently. You will never be allowed to walk on the street with flip flops and shorts, nor at the beach. Take a look what’s going on at the beaches in Gaza and Saudia arabia and how women swim with the entire burqua on. My advice… strip every citizenship and green card from every muslim in our country and send them back to their barbarian, backward, stone age countries where they came from and give their papers to the “peaceful only” spanish, Christians who want to build their lives by working hard. Islam is the biggest enemy of the entire world and they must be defeated and that’s why we must get rid of that Indonesian president “the bama” who is secretly empowering islam. Shut down the entire islamic immigration throughout the world and start shipping them back without any mercy. And stop think in your mind that there are “moderate” islam, and this way we won’t have to worry about having a sleeping cells in this great nations, invaded by these cockroaches.
you are hopeless Sam. You obviously have no idea what is going on outside of America or in America. You have good company here to spout ignorance without having a clue on context. This is your people here so enjoy soaking in your own foul juices of intolerance and hate. Brush off your kill a commie tool-chest and relabel it for the Muslims. You are a spoon fed puppet, dance monkey dance.
To #69 Munir
God’s Biblical requirement for ALL humanity is KINDNESS:
Jewish Bible, Micah 6:8 And what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God.
Jesus said “Blessed are the merciful for they shall receive mercy.”
Jesus was a Jew who taught from the Jewish scriptures in the synagogues and in the Temple on the Temple Mount. In the Bible, Matthew 7:12 Jesus said: “Treat people the same way you want them to treat you for this is the Law and the Prophets.”
“With its descent to baiting blacks, Mexicans and Muslims, its accommodation of conspiracy theories and an increasing nastiness and vulgarity, the conservative movement has undergone a shift toward demagoguery and hucksterism.”
- David Klinghoffer, former literary editor, National Review
Sigh. Paul, You are right!
These are commands given to the Israelites at specific times and places for specific purposes. Absolutely correct!
But what specific purpose? This is what the bible says:
“Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.” 1 Samuel 15:3
Isn’t that a command for sheer violence?
For what specific purpose could anyone order the killing of camels and donkeys? cattle and sheep? and ….. Children and infants? what possible sins could an infant have committed that would justify his murder?
And if such verses in the bible ordering sheer violence can be justified by invoking “specific purpose” and “specific times” then in all fairness give the Muslims a chance to invoke “specific purpose” and specific times”. If you have read the Quran, does it specifically order the murder of infants and children, just as the bible seems to be doing in the verse quoted above?
I simply cannot imagine any specific purpose that would justify murdering infants. Your post suggests that you can.
Dear ‘Munir Munshey’,
Here’s your unambiguous answer:
Bukhari (52:256) – The Prophet Muhammed was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, “They (the women and children) are from them (i.e. pagans).”
In this command the savage ‘holy prophet’ Muhammad clearly establishes that it is permissible to kill women, children and non-combatants in the act of Islamic Jihad. This provides justification for the many Islamic terror bombings which slaughter innocents daily.
~ The Infidel Alliance
Your slipping Hate Express!
The context that you are using, as usual, is incorrect. The point here is to tell Prophet Mohammad, peace be upon Him, that there were women and children there at the time to warn him. His reply was that they could still have the battle regardless…Why…any Muslim warrior knew that women and children and elderly were not to be harmed so it was useless to mention that.
Now, your ignorance is hanging ouy, I’m so embarrased for you! (-;
Wrong again Hate Express. Try another angle.
The vile criminal Muhammad ibn Abd’allah slaughtered the adult males of Banu Qurayza. He did not killed the women and children because he was a greedy bastard, who saw no specific purpose in wasting valuable merchandise. He sold them as slaves. Muhammadan mumins consider Muhammad al insan al kamil (perfect man) and uswa hussana (perfect model of conduct). This means that come the time when mumins obtain power. As a matter of fact they did this when they were strong and conquered vast tracks of land. They also have the right to enslave women and children and kill the peoples of the book when these didn’t pay the jizya with willing submission.
I think maybe you represent a foreign source that has long been missing here. Your points are weak but a good effort nonetheless. Ask the hate express – Infidel Alliance and I am sure they will help fine tune your confusion, anger and radical extremist opinions. Allah help us all.
The Bible and the Koran are both composed of 2 parts, the Old Testament and the New Testament, and the Mecca Koran and Medina Koran.
The Old Testament, basically the Jewish Tanakh, reflected an age of savagery, slavery, tribalism and primitivism. This was an age when there were no universal human rights, no liberty until they were recognized and claimed as a God given right by the Jews.
With the New Testament, the Jewish reformer Jesus (the Christ of Christianity) offered a new human consciousness and the pinnacle of human morality: Love instead of hate. Forgiveness instead of revenge. Freedom instead of slavery. Universal humanity instead of tribalism. Seperation of church and state. A loving God instead of a vengeful God.
The Meccan Koran reflects the first 12 years of Muhammed’s ‘revelations’, which were basically benign and relatively peaceful.
The Medinan Koran, however, reflects a change in Muhammed’s teachings and actions, from peaceful preaching to Islamic Jihad. This is when Muhammed began his life of criminality – looting, stealing, enslaving, raping, torturing, decapitating, murdering, terrorizing and committing genocide.
It is the Medinan Koran that established Islam’s violent morality, as the peaceful Meccan Koran was displaced by the Islamic doctrine of abrogation with Muhammeds Medina terror doctrine of Islamic Jihad. Holy War became the highest virtue in Islam.
It is telling that year 1 in the Islamic calendar is marked not by the birth of Muhammed, but when he became a successful criminal in Medina.
So, while Judeo-Christian morality and consciousness continually progressed to peace, freedom and love, Islamic morality and consciousness devolved to violence, subjugation and hate.
And the ‘infidel’ world has suffered continuously from Muhammed’s Jihad ever since. Likewise, billions of Muslims have been enslaved by this evil ideology.
It is nothing less than Muhammeds 1,400 year Reich, it is: THE ISLAMIC WORLD WAR
As such, ISLAMO DELENDE EST!!! ISLAM MUST BE DESTROYED!!!
The destruction of Islam is the greatest HUMAN RIGHTS IMPERATIVE humanity has ever been called to.
~ The Infidel Alliance
justasimplepatriot saysin Post #52
“It’s equivalent today is Political Correctness and Tolerance. Tear the cover off these concepts and you will discover pathology.”
No patriot, you will find the Humanist Manifesto 2, the source document from which all recent laws and treaties and enviro-nonsense and aborticide and euthanasia and sodomite rights and so forth and so on stem from. It declares Man to be his own savior and religion to be illusory, as well as the product of irrationality.
Dear Infidel Alliance
Your justification for the indefensible in the bible is that there is a hadith in Islam that says the enemy can be attacked at night even if it endangers women and children.
The shortcomings of a religion that came much much later cannot be a justification for something in the bible that is so over the top. A very direct and specific command to kill infants and children. Please re-read the verse in question. It does not say kill your enemy, even if their infants are vulnerable. It directly orders the adherents to kill infants and children. Also their camels and donkeys! If you can leave your prejudices aside, please think about it. Camels and donkeys are just beasts of burden. What extreme hatred could make one order the infants and children specifically, and the camels and donkeys to be killed. Your post does not answer anything, it merely points a finger at something else that might be equally egregious or less so. Here is the verse again:
“Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.” 1 Samuel 15:3
As I mentioned earlier there are scores of other verses in the bible that are equally indefensible, if not more.
The problem with people like you, Munir, is you think you are so clever to bring a verse in the Old Testament as proof that Christians and Jews are just as bad as islamists.
Well, it doesn’t work because 1) unlike moslems, Christians and Jews are not killing, especially innocents, in the Name of God today; and 2) you are placing yourself where you do not belong: in the Mind of God Who issued that specific command to the Israelites who were fighting, as He desired, to rid the area of evil pagans and to establish His Dominion instead.
Before the killing of the Amalekite king, he is taken to account for his evil: “As thy sword hath made women childless, so shall thy mother be childless among women.”
So God’s Justice is not something you, in your finite human comprehension, can understand, despite your infantile attempt to do so. Do not place yourself above God in “judging” His Decisions, especially at a time and place you know nothing of, except for the verse you keep repeating.
Has it ever occurred to you that God, Who is beyond this life, might have been saving the children from eternal damnation before they grew up and followed in their evil fathers’ ways? Since God clearly teaches us that His ways are not our ways, stop trying to second-guess what He did centuries ago with a people you do not know as well and since He has given us a New Covenant that you should concern yourself with since you are not an Israelite of ancient days.
Therefore, you set yourself above God Who can giveth life and take away life however He pleases. On the other hand, the koran is a book inspired by the devil who can only mimic God and does so by trying to bring people back to the ways of killing one another instead, as some of the commentators have already pointed out to you, to have mercy as Jesus commands us.
Those who follow the koran are not giving mercy but arbitrarily taking innocent lives for the sake of their false beliefs. They will account for it, however, as God states very clearly, “Vengeance is Mine, saith the Lord”: “http://greatspiritualbattle.com/eternitypunish.html.”
Are you kidding me? Jews and Christians have been killing in the name of their god for thousands of years. God demands that they kill. There is no difference between the religions, they all want one thing, the acquisition and maintenance of great wealth and political power. Remove the money and the politics form any religion and you have no religion.
Dear Readers,
What we need to know about Islam vs. the West is simple:
Part 1:
Muhammed, the ‘holy prophet’ and founder of Islam was a sadistic sociopath.
As recorded in the Islamic ‘holy’ texts, far from being a a ‘holy prophet’ Muhammed was simply a 7th century Arabian Hitler – only worse, a successful Charles Manson, only creepier and more evil.
Muhammed was a murderer, torturer, amputator, decapitator, mutilator, slaver, looting stealing thief, rapist, human trafficker, sex trafficker, child rapist, kidnapper, sexual deviant, misogynist, perfidious liar, genocidist and self proclaimed terrorist.
By any objective standard, Muhammed was one of the most vile and disgusting men in the pantheon of human history, a brutal barbarian, a self important narcissistic consumed by unquenchable sexual lust, greed and power.
Muhammed was, in every way, the Anti-Christ.
Muhammed should have been incarcerated not venerated, and he should be reviled not revered. Yet this is the man who set the moral foundation for Islam and for all Muslims to follow.
Muslims cannot defend the indefensible barbarity of their evil prince, so they
1) hurl invective and ad hominem attacks against those who reveal the truth about Muhammed and
2)devolve into riotous mobs burning, destroying, terrorizing and killing whenever his likeness is revealed or whenever he is subjected to objective criticism.
Every pathology that afflicts Islam – decapitation, intimidation, subjugation, terror, misogyny, hate, violence – comes directly from this sick man, Muhammed, and the entire world suffers because of him.
MUHAMMED – The man responsible. Evil.
~ The Infidel Alliance
you offer nothing but slanderous opinions. where do you expect a reply? You probably will get some to follow your fear mongering however I suppose you have isolated a much larger section of your group. Islamic extremists and Christian extremists and all extremists that seek to cause chaos, deceit, hate and so on should all meet somewhere after lunch, say the playground, and have it out. You are a thorn in all our sides.
Again, you will never find a Muslim saying such hate against any Prophet of God even if you do. You have lowered yourself to vile comments and still you seek a reply that addresses it. As if you actually deserve this. Maybe if you came without the insults and hate flinging we could have made some progress for both of us. Don’t fear Islam, fear the hate inside you. Start within yourself.
Part 2:
Muhammeds savagery manifested itself in HATE. Hate of anyone, anywhere and anything that is not Islamic.
Thus, the prime directive of Islam is to exterminate all those Muhammed hates:
Allah’s Apostle Muhammed said, “I have been ordered to FIGHT THE PEOPLE till they say: ‘NONE HAS THE RIGHT TO BE WORSHIPPED BUT ALLAH’” – Bukhari (8:387)
To implement Muhammeds vision of hate, he created ISLAMIC JIHAD – ISLAMIC HOLY WAR. Muhammed made Islamic Jihad the central pillar of Islamic theology and the highest expression of Islamic morality:
“the Messenger of Allah, Muhammed said: ‘There is another act which elevates the position of a man in Paradise to a grade one hundred (higher), and the elevation between one grade and the other is equal to the height of the heaven from the earth. He (Abu Sa’id) said: What is that act? He replied: Jihad in the way of Allah! Jihad in the way of Allah!’” – Muslim (20:4645)
Muhammed the hate filled sociopath demanded that his followers engage in his Islamic Jihad:
“Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.” – Koran (2:216)
There is no Buddhist Jihad. No Hindu Jihad. No Catholic Jihad. No Sikh Jihad. No Coptic Jihad. No Methodist Jihad. No Jewish Jihad. No pagan Jihad. No animist Jihad. No Zoroastrian Jihad.
There is only ISLAMIC JIHAD.
ISLAMIC JIHAD – the manifestation of Muhammeds hate and savagery. Against anyone, anything, anywhere that is not Islamic.
~ The Infidel Alliance
Part 3:
Islamic Jihad is the only way the sociopath Muhammed could realize his totalitarian vision. But ‘Holy War’ was not good enough for a man as savage and evil as Muhammed.
Decapitation. Genocide. Subjugation. Rape. Looting. Torture. Amputation. Not just traditional warfare:
Allah’s Apostle Muhammed said ‘I have been made victorious with terror’ – Bukhari (52:220)
TERROR. The justification for decapitating Daniel Pearl. The justification for blowing up civilians in streetside cafes in Bali. The justification for blowing up tube commuters in London. The justification for slaughtering Jewish athletes in the Munich Olympics. TERROR.
Islamic apologists can proclaim Islam as the warm, fuzzy, huggy ‘Religion of Peace’. But the facts speak for themselves:
Islam:
- a totalitarian ideology founded by a sadistic sociopath Muhammed
- Islamic Jihad – Holy War – its highest morality
- The ISLAMIC WORLD WAR – killing, raping, looting, subjugating, oppressing, exterminating continuously for 1,400 years.
Let’s face the facts and call it what it really is:
THE ISLAMIC WORLD WAR
~ The Infidel Alliance
Pick and chose as you like Hate Express. Your style is cheap.
You, as is often the case, missed the rest of the quote as well as the context. Is this how you approach your faith?
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah’s Apostle said, “I have been sent with the shortest expressions bearing the widest meanings, and I have been made victorious with terror (cast in the hearts of the enemy), and while I was sleeping, the keys of the treasures of the world were brought to me and put in my hand.” Abu Huraira added: Allah’s Apostle has left the world and now you, people, are bringing out those treasures (i.e. the Prophet did not benefit by them).
Your plagiarism is even flawed.
Let the thumping continue!
Part 4:
How do we fight back?
First and foremost, we must not be afraid. We must exercise and defend our right to free speech.
We must support every effort to expose and discredit Islam as a DANGEROUS TOTALITARIAN IDEOLOGY.
We must take legal and legislative actain against Islam, because Islam is using that against us.
We must educate people about
1) The truth about Muhammed
2) The truth about Islam’s prime directive – ISLAMIC JIHAD
3) The truth about the 1,400 year ISLAMIC WORLD WAR
We must challenge Muslims to
1) defend the sociopathy of Muhammed as moral behavior to be emulated (they can’t)
2) justify decapitation, amputation and stoning as moral behavior (they can’t)
3) educate them about the truth about Muhammed, Islam and Islamic Jihad
We must be relentless, because Islam is relentless.
~ The Infidel Alliance
I support your case to have all learn about Prophet Mohammad, peace and blessing be upon Him. Those that have some understanding about historical, academic and religious context will enjoy the study.
People like you will continue to recruit in the same manner of all extremists which is by ignorance and fear.
Part 4 has been consistent with the rest of your writings and I have already responded.
You are a hack and you are a divider. Jesus, peace be upon Him, would never be aligned with you. What would Jesus say about you? If I were you I would recheck myself and reconnect with Jesus, peace be upon Him, and beg forgiveness for your contributions against His message. He will surely abandon you on the Day of Judgment. InshAllah I will pray for you.
Thank you, Simeon, for answering. Let me repeat the verse: “Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.”
Jews and the Christians are not killing today, and these orders are from “centuries ago”, so let’s overlook their apparent cruelty. Did I get you right?
To “rid the area of pagans” and “establish His Dominion”, murder of infants and Children is kosher. It “might have been saving the children from eternal damnation”. That was an act of mercy, you think?
Murder of infants and Children is fine if it is to “rid the area of pagans” and “establish His Dominion”. That is not being cruel to the infants and children because it “might have been saving the children from eternal damnation”. You try to pass it off as God’s justice.
My “finite human comprehension” considers killing “infants and children” to “save them” unequivocally and unambiguously evil. I wonder why doesn’t yours.
I assume, the quote suggesting that the infants and children were murdered as an act of revenge, is from the bible. Their parents were punished because their sword “hath made women childless, so shall thy mother be childless”.
To my “finite human comprehension” killing “infants and children” to punish their parents is much more than cruel and savage. It is downright evil.
Unabashedly, you then say it is the Quran that is from the devil. That is an article of faith for you, it seems. One cannot argue with blind faith.
You seem confused. Were the infants and children killed to “save” them from “eternal damnation”, or was it revenge against their parents? The former could be misconstrued as mercy. The later, was without a question an unbridled act of cruelty and a savage revenge.
The message I get is that God as Jesus is merciful, while Jesus as God is vengeful. Maybe I am confused, not you. I apologize!
There still remains one other mystery. Were the “camels and donkey” ordered killed as an act of mercy or that of revenge? Surely, those hapless animals did not cause the believing she-camels and the believing she-donkeys to remain childless.
Clever or not, “people like me” do have a problem. Our comprehension is human and finite, but our attempts to comprehend are labeled infantile, and our curiosity is quashed by calling it “judging God”, placing ourselves above God, and “second guessing” Him.
Because you said, “except for the verse you keep repeating”, implying that there is only one such verse, I shall quote another one. Actually there are scores of such egregious verses. Perhaps, even hundreds.
“Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.” Numbers 31: 17-18
Hard to even begin to comment on that one, don’t you think? It isn’t mercy, nor revenge!
No, Munir, it is not hard to comment at all.
There was an apparent “cruelty” in slavery a century ago. Should we continue to wallow in the verses of the Bible that Southerners used to justify it, or should we move on to understand that we live in a different time (unlike the 7th-century islamist mentality) with more graces from God than any other generation has ever received (since you don’t follow spiritual news or obviously know about the Feast of Divine Mercy, it is too long to go into here for you to be given the necessary background to this Truth; I gave you a link and I don’t believe you’ve chosen to read it).
It’s interesting that you can find these quotes from Scripture that offend your sensibilities as to what is and is not cruel, yet when I gave you the verse that indicates why God was ordering the killing of the Amalekites for their evil ways, you had to “assume” it was from the Bible.
Harry Truman said when Hiroshima was destroyed that this was “the greatest event in human history.” Munir, how do you judge that remark? Can you say he was gleeful in the horrific deaths of women and children? Are you familiar enough with the mind of Truman to cast judgment on him?
God has stated that war is a chastisement for mankind’s sins.
In the Old Covenant, wars between Israel and others were a chastisement to both the Jews and those they fought against, specifically for not obeying God’s Laws. It is the same today, as we fight the animals of islam because people like you and Mark want to chastise God and say it is unnecessary to love, honor or worship Him; in your case because He is so “cruel” and in Mark’s case because he’s a frightened little child regarding the Truth of an “invisible” and spiritual world.
Sorry, as hard as you two might try, it will never work that way; just ask Lucifer how far his judgments of God’s decrees got him.
When one reads the Scriptures, Munir, one cannot pick and choose like from a Chinese menu. It all intertwines with one another and when God wishes to move on, He does so. In your picking out the Numbers verse, you once again fail to WANT to comprehend that this is a chastisement for the sins of the Madianites. Again, you may want to scream about the “cruelty” of God all you want, but, in reality, you are not qualified to judge Him or the circumstances, even though, in your pride, you do. Hmm. Pride, does that remind you of the fall of someone? Someone who thought they were “above” God? I suggest you not fall for the same trick.
For when you fall into that deception, you fail to give God what God is due: His Sovereign Rights. What you consider cruel is not what He may as He tells us clearly not to fear he who can destroy the body but He who can destroy body and soul; that is a great faith test and one you are obviously failing. You also wish to take from Him what He decreed as a result of man’s fall: that the sins of the father fall upon the next generation.
A strong warning to us that what we do has not only consequences for ourselves but for our children. Indeed, suffering, as Jesus taught, cleanses many sins, something the world (and guess who else) desperately wants you not to believe. Suffering itself is due to the fall and our sins.
In these facts which you fail to believe, God has moved on, Munir. As I stated to you before and will reiterate one last time for your comprehension, He is now in a New Covenant, where He asks us to unite ourselves to His Son’s Sufferings for our sins.
You need to move on, too, before one day you will hear the words of judgment: “thou fool, tonight thy life is required of thee.” Then, on that fateful day we all face, you can explain to God just how “cruel” He is and why your judgment is above His (although I bet at that moment, you’ll have second thoughts).
So you can continue to want to focus on the Old Covenant and use His specific Commands to a specific group of people He was working with for a specific reason as your rallying cry as to whether God is Good or not. Again, you were not there, nor are you the God of DNA as He is; yet you act as if you possess enough wisdom to comprehend all the particulars and make a valued judgment.
One of the great Saints, people you obviously do not study but should, once humbly asked the Lord in her visions of Him why He was allowing the pope to do something which she knew was not right. Christ’s response to this holy woman was: “What is that to you?”
In other words, you are not God; only He is. He has a very easy way to change things when He so desires. It is called death. We, as living creatures, want to live forever and as such wish to be in charge of that little feature of life. He, as He has demonstrated it to you through His decrees in Scripture and His Resurrection, proves to mankind Who is ultimately in charge of life and death.
Sorry that upsets you, Munir; you’ll have to continue to take it up with Him, but I suggest a more humble, prayerful approach like the Saint. You may then get an answer.
Then, in His Mercy, He might help you to overcome your unworthy judgment of His “egregious” Commands. I pray He will.
Thanks to Infidel Alliance, Jihad Watch and others for keeping us informed.
HUSKY and Hate Express have made a connection, how sweet. Allah help you move towards the straight path and stop causing mischief in the land.
It’s not just Islam, it is all religion. It is these stupid, antiquated superstitious beliefs that have held us back for thousands of years. There is no invisible realm of spirits and demons that are manipulating human behavior. None. The sooner we relegate religion to the very basement of antiquity, where it belongs, the sooner we will evolve beyond our technological infancy. If we do not rid the world of religion then religion will rid the world of us. I know that had it not been for the intervention of religion in the course of human events, that we as a species would be a thousand years more advanced than we find ourselves today.
I think I’ve discovered Paddy’s true identity:
http://weaselzippers.us/2010/08/03/irishman-dreams-of-flying-black-flag-of-islam-over-irish-parliament/
If you would like to understand the threat of/from Islam an excellent place to begin is here…
http://www.carlisle.army.mil/DIME/documents/20080107_Coughlin_ExtremistJihad.pdf
Then do a simple Google on the author, Stephen Coughlin, who had been the Pentagon’s leading researcher on Islam but his report (this thesis) was not politically correct so… Over the past couple of years Stephen and General Jerry Boykin have been touring the country presenting day long seminars on the subject. Stephen presented the seminar earlier this year at Quantico and late 2009 at the Pentagon – ironic hey?
I doubt this fellow cares about hiding his identity and I never have either. Unlike most here.
You have read all through these posts and this is all you can come up with? I will offer your page in history as being my last thumping.
I think this is your true identity: sounds like your type of people!
http://www.islamtomorrow.com/yusuf/priests_n_preachers.htm
I guess Muslims don’t get irony.
And the website you linked was one person’s story on how and why he choose to convert to Islam. That’s fine – to each his own (but considering that Muslims believe it is okay to lie to infidels in furtherance of their beliefs, I’m not sure the blogger has much credibility).
But what about all those young girls who want to leave Islam and are “honor” murdered for it? Since they are dead, they can’t blog about why they want to leave Islam. Thanks to Pamela Gellar and Robert Spenser for keeping them in the forefront of what kind of religion Islam truly is.
Honor killings are cultural. They exists in most religion that is practiced incorrectly. Focus on Islam as you like but Christianity has it as well. The point is to stop it in all its forms.
Au contaire, sir. This analysis of honor killings by Phyllis Chesler shows that 91% of honor killings in North America and 96% in Europe are done by Muslims It is not cultural for Muslims; the Italian Mafia, maybe, Islam, no.
And yes, the point is to stop all honor killings. So what are you, personally – as a Muslim, doing about it?
I would appreciate some proof that Christians practice honor killings.
Islam, like any other false religion/worship corrupts souls. But Islam, unlike most other false religions, teaches that Jews and Christians are the worst of enemies and they are very good at inculcating those beliefs. What many people do not understand is that the “beliefs” of the so called terrorists ARE true & pure Islam and the “moderates” are not as far along in their understanding.
The idea of Progressive Revelation is a vital component of Islam. It is the belief that Allah did not teach full theological, legal, moral, scientific, medical and other knowledge to humans in the beginning. Rather, he gradually revealed truths over a long interval, according to their needs, and at a rate slow enough that humans were capable of fully absorbing them.
The term for this is abrogation which means in a practical sense that Mohammed had many revelations in his lifetime, several of which contradicted previous revelations. In the end, the final revelation is superior and cancels out the prior, the new cancels out the old. For example, you can still read the words, ‘There is no compulsion in religion’ in the Koran, but they no longer have authority because Surah 2:193 (which came later) says, “And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against oppressors.”, so that is what must be followed. The chronological timing in which a verse was written determines its authority to establish policies within Islam.
In an attempt to polish Islam’s image and deceive the gullible, Muslim activists & apologists usually quote verses from the Quran that were written in the early days of the Islamic movement while Mohammed lived in Mecca. The latter verses which teach violence were penned while Mohammed’s headquarters was based in Medina. This presents problems for naive people who are not familiar with Islam and the Quran. They don’t know that the Surahs (chapters) of the Quran are not arranged in chorological order. So an activist who is out to deceive them can turn to various places throughout the Quran and read verses that sound peaceful, tolerant, reasonable and loving giving the impression that the entire Quran promotes peace, love, equality and tolerance for all. What they will not tell people is that such verses, though still in the Quran, were nullified, abrogated, rendered void by later passages that incite killing, decapitations, maiming, terrorism and religious intolerance. This whole concept and its implications is also “kept” from new believers and converts, and then is progressively revealed to them as the religion becomes ingrained in their life.
To further confuse the newer believer and keep them in the dark concerning these teachings of hate and violence, there are three “kinds” of abrogation. 1) Verses in which both the wording and application were abrogated/nullified . 2) Verses in which the wording was abrogated (nullified) but the application was not. These are verses wherein the wording was nullified, but the inferences/possible applications of those words remained intact. 3) Verses in which the application was abrogated (nullified), but the wording was not. These are verses wherein the wording remained the same, but the authority to consider such in the formation of Islamic polices were nullified.
In addition there are also four “degrees” of abrogation. 1) Surahs that were not influenced by applications of the doctrine of the Abrogator and the Abrogated. 2) Surahs that maintained the authority of the Abrogator, but their original wording was not abrogated or nullified. 3) Surahs that had their wording abrogated/nullified , but maintained their authority for applications. 4) Surahs that have had both their authority for applications and their wording abrogated.
There are 124 versus that call for tolerance and patience that have been cancelled and replaced by one, single verse. This verse is called the verse of the sword: “But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)…..” Surah 9:5
Then there is the concept of “Takeyya” which permits Muslims to lie anytime that they perceive that their own well-being, or that of Islam, is threatened.
Can you grasp how inherently deceiving Islam can be from this?
ChiefEOD,
My guess is that you feel fairly comfortable with yourself. No need to chat about what is false or not. Every extremists uses the same tactic and I suppose there is a large population that will say your beliefs are false as well.
Progressive revelation? As in the Bible? If the Quran was handed down at one time you would say that this was a problem as well. Nobody with any understanding of theology makes a statement like this. Your starting in your studies and that is commendable but don’t try and raise yourself up with Islam 101 classes you are taking. You have a long road to go.
Islam, like any other false religion/worship corrupts souls. But Islam, unlike most other false religions, teaches that Jews and Christians are the worst of enemies and they are very good at inculcating those beliefs. What many people do not understand is that the “beliefs” of the so called terrorists ARE true & pure Islam and the “moderates” are not as far along in their understanding.
The idea of Progressive Revelation is a vital component of Islam. It is the belief that Allah did not teach full theological, legal, moral, scientific, medical and other knowledge to humans in the beginning. Rather, he gradually revealed truths over a long interval, according to their needs, and at a rate slow enough that humans were capable of fully absorbing them.
Surah 2:193 (which came later) says, “And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against oppressors.”, You have misread this Surah so badly it is astounding. Fight the people that are fighting you however if they stop, you stop. Oppressors!!!!!
Nobody is polishing anything. The Quran is uncghanged and is open to even people like you to try and understand it, however off you may be.
The time in Mecca was obviously different over Medina. Chronological order is of no concern. If it was it would have been made in book form during the life of the Prophet Mohammad, peace and blessings be upon Him.
Nothing is hidden or kept. Nice try but a seriously lacking argument. Long words that turn into wind ChiefEOD.
This verse is called the verse of the sword: “But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)…..” Surah 9:5
During war ChiefCEO. Never mind. If you miss this I don’t know what to tell you.
Then there is the concept of “Takeyya” which permits Muslims to lie anytime that they perceive that their own well-being, or that of Islam, is threatened. Are you saying that it is wrong to protect yourself in danger or when you are threatened? Do you suggest this is only Islam?
You wrote some interesting points but the pathway is not correct. Check with your Pastor or religious leader to clean up your errors.
Any school worth their salt would not pass you because you have obviously missed the lessons.
I can grasp that you should come back down and stop playing at the higher levels just yet.
The level has dropped around here and I shall let all that read decide for themselves what really happened here. Allah forgive me for any mistakes I made and help remove the hate and ignorance that is being used against your Islam.
Maybe some of you here have understood some more about Islam that is not rooted in hate. I respect your faith and only pray that we all enter paradise and hang our heads low in humble respect for the one true God before it is too late.
To all my Christian and Jewish brothers and sisters,
Asalamu Alaykum.
Patrick McCarthy
patrick, patrick (or should I say abdul, ali, or maybe mush-mouse),
you amuse me just like a comedian.
you and those like you on sites all over the internet might have a better chance getting your message across to the terminally stupid and politically correct if you went to another site, say… dailly kos or huffington post. I don’t think you’ll get much traction on this site cause those here actually have done what you morons have been advocating. That is, read the islamic (or would that be the moronic) scriptures. As for myself, 5 korans, ishaq, bukhari, muslim and sharia law (reliance of the traveller)and on and on has allowed me the luxury of recognizing you for who you really are— a liar. But that’s ok. Again I repeat myself when I say please continue with your stand up act. you and your rock god make a perfect couple. you both entertain this audience. While muzlims around the world continue to kill and maim, then cry that no one understands them and misinterprets them, keep in mind that many more are recognizing your deceit. Don’t believe me? Check out this coming weeks Time magazine. Can you believe it, patrick? Time magazine. When Time magazine displays the true “face” of islam (on the cover, no less), you got real problems. Maybe the terminally stupid and politically correct are getting it. Uh-oh! But that shouldn’t be any worry for you or your master deceiver…what was his name again, patrick? Oh yeah, Bonzo. (I think that was one of the 99 names of….blah, blah, blah).
patrick, don’t forget to tell the good audience that you’ll be around for the rest of the week and don’t forget to tip your waitress.
Call me whatever name you like. I have been clear from the beginning but some people are just so paranoid there is no reason to continue on what name you call me.
I’m glad you were entertained, it does not take much. I can get one of those laser pointers and have you run around the room until you knock yourself out. That will be fun!
I do like to visit people in the hospital, it is highly regarded in Islam but you probably missed that also.
Reading something hardly makes you a scholar. I do appreciate that you did read and I don’t doubt that you did. Each person gets what they intend and you intended to find anything to discredit Islam and so be it for you. It’s too bad you did not read it objectively as any serious student of theology would have done.
Now why don’t you take your information outside places like this website and other hateful sites and go chat with an imam at a Mosque? You should feel confident in yourself and should be able to erase 1000+, you know the real number, years easily. This should be a slam dunk for you. Forget about hating Muslims for a minute and check your work.
I would never expect that I would be able to dispute the Bible just because I read it amongst several other key Christian and Jewish texts. They add to my appreciation of these great religions because I don’t read it to find errors. You have not seen me say much about your beliefs and never attack your faith. I reply to the accusations of many foolish and scared people and try to reply as best I can. Sometimes I try humor, which you enjoy, and sometimes with sarcasm to add some life to all this. Either way, I had your ear and you had mine. You threw numerous cheap shots and I threw some.
As if Time magazine will make things worse for me. They know how to sell magazines and you can go buy it and support their publishing empire.
I think you are a strange person with some of the comments you made.
I guess there is not much else to say to you except I hope God enters your hateful soul before it is too late.
The history unfolding of USA being taken over by Sharia/terrorists/Islam/?Obama makes me think of Rebbe Nachman’s story, “The Master of Prayers”
(about a land based on greed, where everyone is ranked depending on how much money they have. If they fall below a certain level, they’re considered animals, etc. Anyway, a warrior comes to conquer the land and wants everyone to submit. The people don’t mind submitting, they just have a problem giving up their money and ranks. So they try to find ways to defeat the warrior)
My attitude towards Muhammadanism prior to nine/eleven was a neutral one. After this day of abomination who will live in infamy I started to study this deen (faith). Since I am not proficient in Arabic I have to rely on English, French, German and Dutch translations. The reading of Qur’an, Sirat Rasul Allah, sahih ahadith Bukhari, Muslim, Sunan Abu Daud, Muwatta of Malik ibn Annas was an eye opener. It reveals an extremely barbaric faith system concocted by a warlord, highway robber, a mass murderer, extortionist, child molester. How dare the Muhammadans connect the word peace with this criminal. He should be called Mudhammam (reprobate). My favourite little poem is one by Umm Jamil, the wife of Abu Lahab (mentioned in Qur’an sura 111 aya 4 and 5 as the bearer of woods):
We reject the reprobate,
His words we repudiate,
His religion we loathe and hate.
This must be the words inspiring people who want to do something against this religion of war.
In order to know something about the Shari’a I bought a copy of the well known book of the Shafi’i figh school, The Reliance of the Traveller (Umdat al Salik). A handsome tome with the most disgusting contend.
No way I will “revert”. I will not climb this disgusting mountain of filth. Others, with plans to convert should read the above mentioned texts, before pronouncing the shahada. You must be a complete fool to plunge into the abyss without knowing what lies deep down in the terrible depth.
My attitude towards Muhammadanism prior to nine/eleven was a neutral one. After this day of abomination who forever will live in infamy I started to study this deen (faith). Since I am not proficient in Arabic I have to rely on English, French, German and Dutch translations. The reading of Qur’an, Sirat Rasul Allah, sahih ahadith Bukhari, Muslim, Sunan Abu Daud, Muwatta of Malik ibn Annas was an eye opener. It reveals an extremely barbaric faith system concocted by a warlord, highway robber, a mass murderer, extortionist, child molester. How dare the Muhammadans connect the word peace with this criminal. He should be called Mudhammam (reprobate). My favourite little poem is one by Umm Jamil, the wife of Abu Lahab (mentioned in Qur’an sura 111 aya 4 and 5 as the bearer of woods):
We reject the reprobate,
His words we repudiate,
His religion we loathe and hate.
This must be the words inspiring people who want to something against this religion of war.
In order to know something about the Shari’a I bought a copy of the well known book of the Shafi’i figh school, The Reliance of the Traveller (Umdat al Salik). A handsome tome with the most disgusting contend.
No way I will “revert”. I will not climb this disgusting mountain of filth. Others, with plans to convert should read the above mentioned texts, before pronouncing the shahada. You must be a complete fool to plunge into the abyss without knowing what lies deep down in the terrible depth.
patrick, ah, ha, ha, ha, ha (cough, cough) ugh… stop it, you’re killing me. No, wait….. that didn’t come out right. Well, at least killing me metaphorically- with laughter, is better than killing me literally, right? But only you and your ilah know for sure.
So, let me get this straight. Early in my research, I was told by muzlims over and over that the koran could not be translated correctly from the arabic (which is how I ended up with 5 of these pieces of crap). Guess what? They all say the same thing. So much for the translation thing. Then I’m told that the koran should be veiwed from a historical veiwpoint, that is, what happened in 630 AD stays in 630 AD and is not meant for today. Well, the koran I acquired (free) from cair— that’s the council of American islamic relations, patrick, put that to bed in the forward. The message and actions of the koran are for ALL times. Now these morons (in the same book no less) say that you cannot fully understand what it means to be a muzlim unless you were brought up as an arab. You must have a “philological learning;an instictive ‘feel’ of the language and culture” as opposed to a non-arab(remember, the koran says that the best muzlims are arabs). patrick, the majority of muzlims in the world are NOT arabs. So what kind of cockamamie pretzel logic is that?
You people (and I use that term loosely) are totally screwed up.
Talk to an imam….. there you go again with the jokes, patrick. I can see it now, “Does your holy book command muzlims not to take Jews and Christians as friends and protectors”? “Oh no, it does not say that. What you are reading is a translation of the arabic koran and it has been translated incorrectly. The real translation says peace and love to all Jews and Christians”. (wink, wink)
Again, you might want to try another site, patrick. The good people on this site know exactly who you are and what you represent. I think they recognize your good cop-bad cop routine, but you and your sock puppet ilah, Bonzo are a good comedy act anyway. Keep it up and you may be held over for another week.
Hey, here’s a bumper sticker I saw: “It’s God’s job to judge the terrorists. It’s our mission to arrange the meeting”—USMC Pretty good, eh?
Dear Simeon
I admire your courage. It isn’t easy trying to justify the murder of infants and children. My point: If a verse of bible is to be viewed in context, so is a verse of the Quran. If your arguments are acceptable for the defense of the verses in the bible, so should such arguments be accepted in defense of the verses of the Quran. Fair?
Let’s conduct an experiment: To someone who has neither read the bible, nor the Quran, read these verses of the bible, telling them that they were from the Quran. Now try to assuage their sense of outrage. Tell them that “God knows best”, and that the human criteria of cruelty need to be altered, and that the infants and children were ordered killed to “rid the area of pagans” and to establish “His dominion”. Assure them that they are outraged because their “finite human comprehension” is flawed. Tell them “It was God’s justice”. To see how far you get, you might even drag Mr. Truman and the atomic bombs, and the Southern Churches and slavery into it. I bet they will respond to your arguments like they do to those of Mr. Charles Manson, and Mr. Jeffrey Dahmer and the son of Sam.
I dare say your blind faith argues rather well. Blind faith is known to smother the conscience. Why else would anyone even bother to defend the murder of infants?
To clear the air, let me say that I do not condemn the bible entirely. Most of it is wonderful and remarkably insightful, like this one verse: You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. Mat 7:5
It’s really sad to hear such hatred towards any group of people. Although 9/11 was COMPLETELY inexcusable (believe me, I had family living in NYC at the time), is it fair to label all from a group because of a few of their misguided? It may be surprising just who you might know that professes to the truly peaceful religion of Islam.
), and then perhaps we may be a good influence on others by example.
I really feel it is rude and misguiding to speak about a subject without a deep, learned understanding of it. This is why I devoted my minor at the University of Michigan to learn more about the increasingly infamous religion. Thank goodness the school runs their religion classes in a completely objective and professional way, and I was able to form my own opinion… because going in, I had many prejudices of my own. All of my classes were filled to the brim with information, I sincerely doubt many on this blog have as much unbiased knowledge on the subject. Therefore it is improper for most of you to be spreading your incomplete knowledge… it is likely to be incorrect, and may likely influence others in a bad way. Especially knowledge dealing with people’s morals, a pretty touchy subject.
All in all, my opinion is that it would be best not to judge the deeds and intentions of others. Leave it to the best, when it comes to judgment day, He will know what is in the hearts of all of mankind. Judging others’ path to the ultimate destination is not our place, and who are we to say that others are wrong in their own path. We should look to fix and educate ourselves first (a lifelong goal, should keep us busy enough
/end
Patrick McCarthy, don´t you have a job to attend or something? You´re cranking out these eleven paragraph answers at a frightening rate dude. And I followed your advice and looked up some of Ibn Kathir´s stuff. He seems to disagree with you about one of the most barbaric (9:5) suras, as taken from http://www.tafsir.com:
«أُمِرْتُ أَنْ أُقَاتِلَ النَّاسَ حَتَّى يَشْهَدُوا أَنْ لَا إِلَهَ إِلَّا اللهُ وَأَنَّ مُحَمَّدًا رَسُولُ اللهِ وَيُقِيمُوا الصَّلَاةَ وَيُؤْتُوا الزَّكَاة»
(I have been commanded to fight the people until they testify that there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, establish the prayer and pay the Zakah.) This honorable Ayah (9:5) was called the Ayah of the Sword, about which Ad-Dahhak bin Muzahim said, “It abrogated every agreement of peace between the Prophet and any idolator, every treaty, and every term.” Al-`Awfi said that Ibn `Abbas commented: “No idolator had any more treaty or promise of safety ever since Surah Bara’ah was revealed. The four months, in addition to, all peace treaties conducted before Bara’ah was revealed and announced had ended by the tenth of the month of Rabi` Al-Akhir.”
i want to say for Terry, Eilat – Israel , islam can not be defeated , israel is not strong nation , the killers of children, women and unarmed men can not continue forever, I am a Muslim and I am against the events of New York .
The people who did this bad act do not represent Islam because Islam is strong onion, Muslims will come back masters of the world as they were formerly the teachings of Muhammad the Prophet of mercy and peace this is not my words that the Word of God Almighty, O killers of the prophets.
The West are just hypocrites. There is no free speech in the West, there is only hatred, racism, discrimination and slavery there. The West have trampled religion and rebelled and blasphemed against God and God will sent His rightly-guided saviour of mankind to destroy them and free the world from aggression and terror of the White Man.
Keep it rollin Paddy.
But don’t waste too much of ure breath yea?
“Whomever Allah guides, no one can misguide, and whomever Allah misguides, no one can guide.”
Sallam to all of you.