XX
A number of relatively unnoticed articles on the web suggest that the line between the militias and the fluid Libyan officialdom was blurred and porous. That may have made it possible for al-Qaeda to turn “allies” of the State Department into infiltrators; creating the ultimate Green on Blue opportunity to attack the US consulate in Benghazi.
Walid Shoebat cites Libyan sources who allege that some of the locals entrusted with consular security had ties to al-Qaeda. “The National Transitional Council, which represented the political apparatus that opposed Gadhafi in 2011 and served as the interim government after his removal, made an extremely curious appointment in August of 2011. That appointment was none other than Abdel Hakim Belhaj, an Al-Qaeda ally and ‘brother’”. In other words the post Khadaffy government put a cat among the pigeons. The appointment of Belhaj reads:
We would like to inform you that you have been commissioned to the duties and responsibilities of the military committee of the city of Tripoli. These include taking all necessary procedures to secure the safety of the Capital and its citizens, its public and private property, and institutions, to include all international embassies. To coordinate with the local community of the city of Tripoli and the security assembly and defense on a national level.
Another clue is from a video featured on an Egyptian site reported by the Long War Journal showing Muhammad Jamal al Kashef (a.k.a. Abu Ahmed) who is “suspected of training some of the terrorists responsible for the consulate assault, during which Ambassador J. Christopher Stevens and three other Americans were killed” giving an interview boasting of his ties to al-Qaeda.
It is not clear where or when the interview was filmed, but Jamal says he “always came to this place inside a State Security vehicle, and this is the first time” he did not. Jamal does not add much more.
That would presumably be an Egyptian State Security vehicle. The Wall Street Journal says of Kashef (aka Ahmad):
On returning to Egypt in the 1990s, a former U.S. official said, Mr. Ahmad became head of the operational wing of Egyptian Islamic Jihad, which was then headed by Ayman al-Zawahiri, a physician who is now the chief of al Qaeda. Associates of Mr. Ahmad agree he was part of Egyptian Islamic Jihad but say he wasn’t among its leaders …
Freed last year, Mr. Ahmad is building his own terror group, say Western officials, who call it the Jamal Network. They say he appears to be trying to tap former fellow inmates such as Murjan Salim, a man who, like Mr. Ahmad, has ties to al Qaeda’s Dr. Zawahiri. Former associates of Mr. Ahmad said Mr. Salim is directing aspiring jihadis to Mr. Ahmad’s camps in Libya.
While these are only fragmentary reports, they suggest that the Libyan militia scene — and the post-Arab Spring Egyptian security establishment – were like post-war Berlin; full of double agents, provocateurs, posers and con men. If that scene was penetrated by al-Qaeda agents and active Jihadists, who were building an army in camps across North Africa and far to the south in Mali, then Stevens was basically sitting on a volcano getting ready to erupt.
This makes it easier to understand how and why the consulate was attacked and its supposed safe houses detected. It suggests how the “video” story crossed from Egypt to Libya and why that bizarre narrative became prominent in American official statements. Why? Because it was told them by a ‘trusted source’ – disinformation planted by an Arab secret service under the control or influence of al-Qaeda. Washington bought it, or found it convenient to buy and they clung to it for dear life as they saw their plans fall to pieces before their eyes.
It may also shed some light on why the US response was so tentative. The administration was being double-crossed at the moment of attack and they may have hesitated to fire on persons they were not sure were friend or foe, who may have been in possession of US weapons and even known to possess MANPADs. Maybe they still don’t know.
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Jeesh, they didn’t put our eyes out. They plucked them right from our head.
Curiouser and curiouser.
They really did need Sandy as a distraction, didn’t they?
It may also shed some light on why the US response was so tentative.
Not really. At some point you have to just let Allah sort them out, XXXXXX.
The only mitigating argument I can imagine is that they knew the ambassador was already dead, or that not knowing where he was, they couldn’t just blast the whole embassy and despaired in advance of anything more precise.
Mostly they just misunderestimated the attack from the start (thinking it a peaceful, civilian argument about the video), made the wrong call up front, and then resisted any evidence that they had been wrong and even late in the game should have stepped up, never dreamed it would last long enough to send in outside forces, and then were additionally paralyzed by Hillary’s ineptitude and Obambus’ behind about sending in troops across the border in advance of official Libyan approval.
But of course, this all SHOULD have been worked out weeks and months in advance, so none of these mitigations stands up to even the briefest real inspection.
IMO:
They didn’t believe what they were seeing, because they believed completely in their version of the Arab Spring – so it was just a protest. Therefore, the people on the ground who were calling for help must have been overreacting. Then when they finally realized the truth of what was going on (maybe not until the next day), it was too late. Then it became a question of delaying the information’s release as long as possible.
The BBC reported soon after the attack that a fundamentalist militia is charge of security for Benghazi.
They didn’t believe what they were seeing …
Hillary’s comments on September 12 were very interesting. They reflected a knowledge that it was not a video but also suggested she hoped it was a rogue faction, not her mainline buddies. Still she seemed resigned to the worst:
It hadn’t quite dawned on her yet that she may have fostered a viper or nest of vipers in her bosom. That she had been had. In the great tradition of Soviet intelligence the other side had gotten Uncle Sam to fund the enemy cells. So when Obama says they “trying to understand” the events of the night, its really an assessment of how far back the double cross goes. How bad it really is. And whether anything can be saved. A movie screenplay writer might write the following scene.
Obama maintains:
“…the minute I found out what was going on, I gave three very clear directives. Number one, make sure that we are securing our personnel and doing whatever we need to.”
Could it be that when informed of what was happening, this was the extent of his interest and involvement? He gave three very clear directives, perhaps more that he’s not talking about. Did he then leave others to handle it as he went about his other business? Could it be that the minute he found out about the protest/attack was the only minute he was involved in it?
Was he fully engaged as Commander in Chief or was he busy rehearsing his Las Vegas Romney zingers?
What did he know and when did he know it?
I am cynical. I never believed anything grandios about the Arab Spring – for good reason – I never heard a scintilla of information that could prove to me that we even had a remote clue who was behind it. Was it originally students? People like me who love liberty and would oppose any authority trying to snuff it out?
So what if it was the idealists, those who love humanity, believe in honor and fairness? If their throats are cut two days later by the Salafists or al Qaeda and the U. S. irresponsibly provides no boots on the ground…you can almost predict the results – unless your name is Barack Obama.
What a bunch of jackleg fools.
4. exhelodrvr
Yeah, so they are keeping quiet even though their silence is turning public opinion against them. Shows how really bad the “truth” must be.
Today the President said that “we will leave no one behind.”
No kidding Mr. President…
Well, I know the Governor of New Jersey, after today, will vote for you.
I am probably wrong but I think it all boils down to the fact that the people at the top who could call the shots were frozen, with their minds in an endless loop trying to find a solution to X divided by zero. How could they spin this to make the powers that be look good? But of course, the flow of time does not wait. The more they dithered, the more the options for producing a least bad outcome diminished. But they were focused upon a perfect outcome that never could be.
And now the administration is in the position of the big man who, while out walking his girlfriend, is accosted by a little blustering guy who rapes his girlfriend while telling the big man to shut up and stand there or he will hurt him, which the big man does. In the aftermath excuses must be made for the cowardice, and lies which are spawned on the spur of the moment tend to be the most fragile of all. That’s why there have been so many of them, and why they need to be replenished so frequently.
Its just my take on the subject, for what little its worth.
If they were worried about SA-7′s, then an F/A-18 or two would have done the job nicely with minimal risk. So, clearly the White House was unsure who might be on the receiving end of that laser designator.
The question is why?
The CIA station was more than a listening post; public statements in the weeks after 9/11/12 from the State Dept said that the two SEALs were involved in securing heavy weapons from Libyan militias. What sort of human assets would be more important than a CIA station and warehouses full of heavy weapons?
Walid Shoebat also notes a translation of an Al Jazera video taken during the Benghazi attack, where the attacker says, “Don’t shoot, Mursi (Egyptian Pres.)sent us”.
Walid Shoebat also intimates that the Youtube video maker is a known Palestinian conman.
What to believe?
I would suggest not listening to the State Department is a start.
6. wretchard
CIA: We can’t completely exclude the possibility.
Pretty interesting answer considered they sent them there. And I don’t doubt that that or some similar “cover my A$$ bullcrap” was uttered.
I guess that’s why I’m just a dumb a$$ operator. That is probably what was said through their weasely eyes shifting back and forth. That answer doesn’t help the guys in uniform – just the guys in peated khakis.
At least we had two Navy guys (then contractors) that refused to forget their roots.
Cluster. That’s what will kill operational effectiveness over-night. Perhaps just what is desired by our fearless leader.
I am getting angrier by the minute.
You may not have heard this story, which is being censored.
Obama has been quoted wishing he had a crisis to solve the way Reagan did with the Iran hostage crisis when he came into office. He hoped that Benghazi would provide the opportunity.
First set the stage a few days early. Have the Egyptian embassy send out an apology for aggravating the Muslims by way of a short video very few had seen.
Second, engage some mercenaries to raid the Libyan embassy and kidnap Ambassador Stevens.
Third, make sure there is no security and that no military defense will arrive. (This includes ordering possible defenders to ‘stand down’)
Fourth, prepare the narrative that the video had caused a Muslim riot that resulted in the abduction.
Unfortunately, the whole scenario went awry when insubordinate Seals showed up to defend the embassy. Feeling betrayed when the Seals started shooting up their comrades, the mercenaries went wild and slaughtered the Ambassador.
Having no Plan B, the administration decided to stick with the original narrative.
For those who don’t believe the gunrunning story, consider that with each of the major “Arab Spring” uprisings, Libya, Egypt and Syria, the Obama Administration took the side of the insurgent Islamists. What’s the old adage, – when you lie down with dogs, you wake up the fleas – in this case, big gnarly, dangerous fleas.
When dealing with this fluid insurgent milieu where no American in his right mind should trust any of these Islamic rebels sworn to taqiyya -lying to the infidels- , what did this Administration expect? At every chance, this Administration took the side that was the most likely to help the Muslim Brotherhood, or Al Qaeda and its affiliates, with no safeguards that we know of. Is this just a coincidence or was this done on purpose? Oh ya, and we just gotta arm them rebels, again – Right!
It’s back to the old question about this administration – are they really this foolish and incompetent or are they really trying to do America in. After so many repeated, monumental f-ups, it’s time to label this Administration and it’s leader- Buraq Hussein – what they really are – TRAITORS.
If an OODA Loop implodes in the desert and there’s no one there to hear it, does it still make a sound?
The only way to cut through obfuscation, the “Baffle them with b*llsh*t” of the Donks, is relentless focus. Our people were under attack and called for help. Help did not come. All else is commentary.
Got my power and Internet back from Sandy today, and find Wretchard wrote seven posts in my enforced absence. If I’m going to catch up I better start now.
Harry Lime and cuckoo clocks
We start to see a theme
We give Ahmed the key to locks
Allowing him to dream
Of killing Infidels en masse
By claiming to be friend
And so we gave the man a pass
And now we see the end
Of fuzzy thinking on our part
Incompetence to boot
We’ve raised ineptness to an art
They died, who gives a hoot
What’s more important than brave lives
Is that Obama’s seen
As not in charge of giving knives
To those of grim faced mien
Who unlike Harry Lime of old
Who rose to post war fame
The Ahmed’s of our time are cold
And killing is their game
winslow…
Too complicated a scenario — and it requires Clinton and Obama to hazard Stevens.
‘Ambassadors as hostages’ is exactly what did in Carter.
———-
It’s much, much more likely that Ambassador Stevens was being positioned as a Stevens of Libya (vice Lawrence of Arabia) to establish an irregular army — financed by Obama — able to ‘take Damascus’ — using Warsaw Pact weapons left over from the Libyan civil war.
The Wan and his distaff stood in utter confusion when their ‘allies’ went after the hero of hour: Stevens.
The linkage between the MB and the Iranians has been covered by Spengler.
http://pjmedia.com/spengler/2012/09/03/egypt-is-an-adversary-not-a-neutral/
Former spook has very interesting words WRT Benghazigate.
http://formerspook.blogspot.com/2012/10/up-on-frequency.html
And elsewhere on the web it’s openly admitted by the WH that Obama met with Bidden and Panetta at 5:00 PM (Eastern) that day — it was a pre-booked meeting on the WH official calendar. (!)
So, they’re ALL standing in the situation room two hours into the fiasco, and long before the Wan tails off to bed.
And, at that time, they’re already receiving a steady stream of real-time and almost real-time video and intercept feeds detailing the assault.
What Barry saw was his election theme melting down.
———-
And in other gracious news: anti-Obama voters are hyper-energized in all of the battleground states.
The Tri-State Area seems to be suffering, Biblically. Liberal turn-out is normally massive in the flooded areas. Is this a Sign?
Mel @ 11:
Walid Shoebat also notes a translation of an Al Jazera video taken during the Benghazi attack, where the attacker says, “Don’t shoot, Mursi (Egyptian Pres.)sent us”.
Walid Shoebat also intimates that the Youtube video maker is a known Palestinian conman.
Coupled with Winslow @ 13’s scenario. . . . bingo
That covers the superficial side of the story. That four men died for it is the tragedy. That the government is fundamentally against everything truly American is the crime.
Only God can turn a hurricane.
Did you see that jag to 280 degrees?
Even Joe Bastardi couldn’t predict that path!
I wonder….
b @ 18: The Tri-State Area seems to be suffering, Biblically. Liberal turn-out is normally massive in the flooded areas. Is this a Sign?
If it is, then I expect The Big One in Kalifornistan at any moment.
Blert 18. You think Winslow’s scenario is too complicated?!! Yours assumes that the administration wanted to set up a Neo-Lawrence-esque paladin to do their dirty work in Syria. That’s not complicated? In the absence of evidence, utterly implausible. Winslow’s got it, as I’ve said elsewhere. Meanwhile, I think the dog that barked too soon is significant. Why would the American embassy have issued an apology for the film prior to the demonstration? It was a set up, from soup to nuts, and somebody missed their cue.
Regarding the disarray in Egypt/Libya, Niall Ferguson certainly seems to have ‘nailed it’ in this 14 February 2011 interview:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9slquoIuPC8
18. blert
The Tri-State Area seems to be suffering, Biblically. Liberal turn-out is normally massive in the flooded areas. Is this a Sign?
……………
A sign is not what this is about.
The people who were flooded were likely massively Obamites.
Rush was saying today that these folk are not likely going to feel happy about their lot in life now or next week.
Do unhappy people make loyal voters for the status quo.
Rush, said he thought not.
Huma, Huuuuma, HUMA! – where are you?
Obama has been given a free pass his whole life. There is a reason he lacks a written record. No transcripts, voting present, ect. He learned that if you ignore a problem, a screw up, it just goes away. That makes him the smartest person in the room. Black Panther voter intimidation? What? Fast and Furious? Really, don’t we have more important problems? Benghazi? Stevens dead? Calls for help unanswered? Now you are just trying to politicize this whole unfortunate unavoidable incident. And the press beats up Romney for asking about it. Of course had it been a Republican president…
I just have to wonder how long he can get away with it.
13 Winslow
That scenario is way too complicated to set up from DC to Benghazi and Tripoli. And it would involve too many people.
Idiocy and incompetence are more likely the cause of the disaster.
Obama did not want to “offend” his buddies he just “liberated.” He thinks security is provocative, so he directed them to minimize security in Libya.
They removed 90% of the guards, and did jack squat in securing the buildings. No entry alcoves, there was not even a solid door between the public portion of the consulate and the “sanctuary.” There were only iron barred grates like a jail cell. So when the fire and smoke started, it filled the “sanctuary,” too and killed Stevens and Sean Smith.
The bad guys in Ansar Al-shariah realize that the consulate is a great big sitting duck. They have weeks to observe it, and can talk to lots of people visiting and in the guard forces. They plan an attack on, fittingly enough the 11th anniversary of September 11. They planned to overrun and kill or capture all the infidels.
There is no protest over a video. There is only a planned mass attack by 150 to 200 (or 400?) islamic jihadists supported by “technicals,” RPGS and Mortars. They scare off or blow past the Libyan guards. The entire attack is monitored by the US Embassy in Tripoli and Italy and in DC (where it is 340 PM / Mid Afternoon).
The consulate is screaming for help to Tripoli (and DC?). The CIA Annex realizes what is happening and the CIA does what? Supposedly they are ordered to stand down by someone(?) and to keep a low profile? They have great communications to Tripoli and DC. Woods and several others keep demanding to be allowed to help defend the consulate. Someone or several different someones keep saying NO! Finally after about an hour (?) Woods and several others say F*** IT!, we are going to try and save some Americans. And they do so. And they kill a bunch of Islamic Jihadi Ansar al-shariah (IJA). The IJA folks are mad about the dead jihadis, so the IJA try to kill the good guys as they escape and then follows them to the CIA Annex / safehouse (or meets them there, since the IJA know where it is).
The IJA attack the safehouse for several hours, until finally after the “cavalry” (eight guys from Tripoli with some local “good guy” militia) arrive, they mortar the annex; kill Tyrone Woods and Glen Doherty; and wound a bunch of people. And then fade away before dawn, just like arab militias tend to do.
All the while, the CIA annex is in constant communication with Tripoli and DC. They get a drone and then a second drone overhead. DC should know more about what is happening in Benghazi, than in any war they have ever had before.
And DC is doing what? –IMO– They said here is what we can do Mr. President, A, B, C, … X, Y, Z. What do you want done? And he froze. He probably asked about a hundred questions, saying what if?, what if? Do you know for sure? Could it be? (Just like it took him HOW MANY? months to decide on how many troops to send to Afghanistan and three requests to get Bin Laden.) No one could answer all his flipping questions, especially when he was not sure what he was asking and kept asking again and agian. So he never gave any orders, and no one else was able to give any either (What really happened with Gen. Hamm and his 2IC that night?). Why did our SOD Panetta say there was insufficient intel? Was it because he could not answer all the President’s questions? The FLASH message traffic and the Situation room notes will tell us what happened, if Obama allows it.
Rather than positioning US aircraft and troops just outside Libya’s territory, they sat in their barracks and ready rooms. And no one was there to provide fire support to the folks on the ground in Benghazi.
In the end, Obama thought his delay of 6 hours was OK. He came sooo close. See the Tripoli guys are there with their militia buddies. Everything is better. And BOOM, BOOM, BOOM… The mortars hit and two more dead Americans and how many wounded?
After that (or maybe before) DC panics, and we abandon Benghazi. We do not bring in the FAST or CIF, or an MEU. Everyone in DC is afraid of another Mogadishu / Black Hawk Down. Just run away. After all, Benghazi is almost as messed up as Mogadishu since Qadaffi is gone.
Obama and his campaign (Valerie Jarret, Axelrod, Plouffe, Biden) do not want us to find out how screwed up Libya is. — And the fact that, thanks to Obama, Hillary, and the French, Libya is probably going to be Somalia on the Mediterranean in 2013.
Obama and Hillary treat the dead Americans as a law enforcement issue. The G** D*** FBI that was going to “Bring those Responsible to Justice,” cannot get to Benghazi for two (2!) weeks. Was it because no one in DC really wants them too? If there is no evidence, they cannot get an arrest warrant, much less get a conviction. But it is a law enforcement issue, and the 4 dead are only “bumps in the road.” Obama has spoken.
In the meantime, they are all busy blaming some shady mid-eastern guy, Nakoula Basseley Nakoula, and a 4th rate video. They sent out the brown-shirted LA Sheriffs to drag him to jail with a towel over his head in the middle of the night on a weekend. Just like the NKVD and Stasi would. And all the islamics are going to think that we are going to enforce their blasphemy demands. And after his UN Speech, I really think Obama wants to outlaw blasphemy against Islam too.
So, what happened? Idiocy and Incompetence
1. No security in Libya (don’t want to offend the libyan leaders (as if there are any)).
2. Stand down any aid during the attack, until Obama orders it. President Votes Present cannot make up his mind and will not authorize any moves until he can make up his mind. (His own words: “As soon as I!!! realized what was happening…” when? 8 hours later?)
3. Blame it on the video (And cave in to the Islamics on Blasphemy. First Amendment be damned).
4. Lie, misdirect. stall, stall, stall. November 6 is sooo close. The MSM is in Obama’s corner. They will cover for him!
5. Long Term: Hope no one realizes he has lost Egypt, Libya and Tunisia to the Islamic Muslim Brotherhood and Salafists. Just like Carter lost Iran. (But France and Britain got some great oil deals!!! And Smith, Stevens, Doherty and Woods ended up with the shaft.)
Idiocy and Incompetence
I think that the real driver in the Bengahzi debacle was the utter and complete lack of a plan. The Obama Admin has been in a react, not act, mode in the ME, because they do not have a plan. A plan would require more than Hope, Shame, and Cronyism as a philosphy.
Okay, so they call in the 130′s and drones and 18′s and kill all the people attacking the embassy. Then what? It is clear that they had no idea what then.
0bama and Hildabeast diplomacy created the favorable opportunities for the Benghazi disaster! The decision to go back to Billy (interns-r-entertainment) Clinton practice of treating terrorist attacks on Americans as a Police matter is also why in four years we have suffered more KIA’s in Afghanistan than the entire eight years under GW’s WOT directive! Hildabeast was pulling a “Fast-n-Furious” a la Libya to Syria when the pet(s) bite the hand that was feeding them… I think there is a strong case of a double conundrum was being played out, Hildabeast was running guns with the CIA’s help and 0bama needed to have his “Arab Spring” project looking good and to keep his “behind closed door deals” he made to placate the Muslim Brotherhood President in Egypt, 0bama may very well have been helping Mohamed Morsi keep his pre election vow to get the “Blind Sheik” freed and returned to Egypt, It looks like the Seal members spoiled the party so the attackers thought they were being betrayed and the rest is history.
rd @ 27 – That’s exactly what I think happened too. There are too many baroque backstory theories circulating, not all of which can possibly be true, and which can probably never be proved. Myself, I don’t care what the “root cause” was, whether Stevens was gunrunning on Hillary’s orders or recruiting gay strippers for Obama’s next birthday party. It doesn’t matter to me, and I don’t think the American people care either. So they were shipping guns (or buying back guns – take your pick) – who cares? I don’t care who pays for the bullet that kills a Muslim, the question is meaningless to me. I’m not moved by fulminations about “violating sovereignty” a la Fast & Furious; the Mexicans haven’t even withdrawn their ambassador in protest, so why should I care more about their precious sovereignty than they do? Libya is an even more distant and indifferent case. They wouldn’t even know what sovereignty was if some Westerner hadn’t told them.
To me, the ONLY story is who did what in the White House on the night of 9/10-11. I only care about the lack of courage and manliness on display that night, and the subsequent torrent of lies belching forth from the White House, the State Department and the media to cover the nakedness of those who failed at their moment of testing. There’s no need to travel to Africa or talk to undercover agents to uncover THAT story.
Dr.Mabuse (#30) I agree the primary concern is who did what on 9/11/12 but one needs to also understand that if 0bama was planning a “Trade” it is treason on a grand scale, Hildabeast at best (not meaning in a good way) allowed Americans to die, at worst is also treasonous. I think we owe it to the Dead Seals to find out and to the Upper Command (General/Admiral) personal that did try to do their duty but are now paying for their actions, actions which have made it impossible for 0bama and Hildabeast to wiggle out of this, so long as our “Free” media and Responsible elected officials have the guts to do their Jobs!
Beats me, but I think one factor is that Western postcolonialists don’t have a functioning OODA loop when it comes to dealing with real sho’ nuf totalitarians because they really don’t understand them. So I would not be surprised if they were conned as many above suggest. More broadly I think the postcolonial view of the situation is backwards and has led the president to not help the only vaguely democratic uprising on his watch – the Green revolution in Iran – and to support totalitarians in Egypt, Libya. and evidently Syria if they are supplying arms as indicated in this thread.
Talking about treason is a waste of time and energy. If anyone thinks they’ll ever “get” Obama or anyone else in his government on a charge of treason, he’s dreaming. The law is practically a dead letter now, and has been since WWII, notwithstanding the odd Cold War case. There’s no popular support for levelling charges or even accusations of treason against the executive, no matter how well-deserved, and if conservatives go down that path they’re sure to find themselves wandering and lost in the wilderness. It’s too easy to get entangled in “matters of opinion” and hairsplitting over what loyalty is, who owes what to whom and how “politicizing” the question is the real villainy. If you thought Clinton’s impeachment trial was a 3-ring circus, just wait until you see what results from a treason trial of ANYONE connected with this event.
What people WILL understand and respond to is a charge of cowardice and unfitness to command as a result. People may not feel they can competently judge the president’s strategy and political manoeuvering, but everyone knows what cowardice is, and everyone knows that it’s indefensible. That’s the only advantageous angle of attack here.
I’ve been frustrated over the years by the absence of ex post facto clarity that I had hoped time would reveal.
For instance, I thought for sure by now that there would be widespread understanding of who was zooming whom in the Clarence Thomas case. (One of them needs to be disbarred.)
Another unscratched itch is all the stories of nefarious deeds by the Clintons and those around them before and during the Presidency. Allegations of rape and murder shouldn’t just vanish in the wind.
Why aren’t conseratives saying “Juanita Broderick” to whatever Slick Willie has to say these days?
Frustrating.
29 , 31 Mr. White,
There is not enough information to claim treason or gun running or whatever. If you do so, you sound like the tin foil hat 9/11 truthers and the Clinton Mena Airport murder crew conspiracy nuts.
Get the basic facts of Benghazi out first. 1) They took away their security. 2) They did nothing to help them on 9/11/2012. 3) They lied about the video.
IT DOES NOT MATTER WHY, THEY FAILED AND LIED TO THE US CITIZENS!
Leave the conspiracy crap alone!!! If there are facts supporting it, they will appear. Incompetence and idiocy are as damning as some treasonous conspiracy!
Seems as if we’re being “flexible” in Syria as well: http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/syria-opposition-must-beware-of-islamist-hijack-clinton.aspx?pageID=238&nID=33717&NewsCatID=359
I wonder if Libyan experience is causing a “reset”?
One of the earliest, if not the earliest, reports to blame the video was this one by Reuters which was filed 30 hours after the attack started at the Consulate. In it one Wissam Buhmeid aka “bin Hamid” aka “bin Ahmed” is a the source for the video story.
The Libyan Shield Brigade of which Wissam is Commander is proudly flying the black flag of Al-Qaeda.
16. Blast From the Past
The only way to cut through obfuscation, the “Baffle them with b*llsh*t” of the Donks, is relentless focus. Our people were under attack and called for help. Help did not come. All else is commentary.
Exactly. Thank you
Rd(#35) Fact is, 0bama and crew have dismissed the WOT and are treating it as Police action! (Get it “FBI” called in…) Fact is, Fast-n-Furious is the MO for 0bama’s crew all ready. And your own post lays out the Double conundrum…. Security removed right before “Major” Terrorist Anniversary and this consulate had been attacked recently already. Fact is, In Area Military moved assets in place against 0bama and Crew orders (Now General and Admiral are being reamed) Fact is, Convenient cover story at the ready and fully executed to play book before 0bama and Crew realized it had gone outside binders…. Lots of facts point to a Big Picture, far beyond the last 30 days, While I want facts and the truth I am not about to hold my hands over my eyes for the sake of not wanting to sound whacky (I am not one of the three monkeys)…. And there is a big difference between this and “9/11 truthers” (which are just American haters)…. Besides the “conspiracy crap” can be fun.
On SPECTRE (AC130U) vs. MANPAD: Doesn’t the SPECTRE have countermeasures?
Markets are heavily into this QE Sandy today, it seems to me. Bernanke, the PPT and TPTB had already committed to holding the markets flat through the election – hell, through the election 2016, I think. Action today on specific stocks tells me our secret masters have been and continue to exercise control on virtually each ticker symbol individually. Amazing. Do they even care who wins the “election”?
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DR @ 40: Of course the Spectre has countermeasures, not the least of which is a hail of 25 caliber bullets, and another of which is zooming in on the target at an altitude of nothing, which your average jihadi with a manpad could hardly hit even without a cloud of chaffe and fifty phosphor decoys. Could it leisurely orbit at 500 feet? Not against any kind of strong ground opposition. But I doubt any of these detailed considerations came into play.
30. Dr. Mabuse
“To me, the ONLY story is who did what in the White House on the night of 9/10-11. I only care about the lack of courage and manliness on display that night, and the subsequent torrent of lies belching forth from the White House, the State Department and the media to cover the nakedness of those who failed at their moment of testing.”
I think she’s right. Why give the White House a warehouse full of smoke and mirrors that they can use to obscure their dirty deed? Keep the dirty deed exposed and naked for all to see.
The President showed himself to be unfit for the Presidency by a cowardly response to an armed attack on his country. After he failed his country he wriggled like a maggot under a blanket of self serving lies and excuses.
Conspiracy theories not needed.
Re 40: Spectre ought to have chaff, flares, onboard active jammers and anti-IR paint. We’ve been doing gunship stuff since Vietnam and the SA-7 has been in use / production since then also. Was used in 1969 by the Egyptians. Was used starting in 1972 by the North Vietnamese. Like AAA, it is a known threat dealt with by tactics, planning and countermeasures. Cheers -
“Leave the conspiracy crap alone!!! If there are facts supporting it, they will appear. Incompetence and idiocy are as damning as some treasonous conspiracy!”
OMG – What was I thinking. Of course we must wait for All the facts to appear. We should always wait for the Main Stream Media to give it’s Good Housekeeping Stamp of Approval on any story before we comment. Otherwise, we have ventured into that dark “Tin Foil Hat ” territory. Oh, the horrors!
Just look at that “Fast and Furious” conspiracy. Oh the rubbish! Those Tin Foil Hatters in Congress even convicted our superb Attorney General of lying to Congress. Just see where that got ‘em. Nowhere. Our fine and trusted Mainstream Media has rendered it’s verdict on that case and given the Obama Administration a clean bill of health. There’s nothing to see there. We know all that we need to know. Why, the Obama’s Administration’s intent was as pure as freshly driven snow. It was just another Bush Administration boondoggle gone bad.
I’m sure when all the facts “appear”, we will find out the same thing about this “stand down” nonsense and gunrunning conspiracy. Our President acted with the best interests of the American people in mind and that is all we need to know.
We don’t have to worry about where any of these so-called fiasco’s lead us. The “Smart Power” of this administration will ably protect now and in the future administration.
44 unsk and 39 Mr. White,
No where did I say ignore the facts and do not look for the facts.
The facts do not support some grand kidnapping-hostage trade, gun running conspiracy. We need the facts to support your conjecture. We need Congress and (maybe, if they quit bending over) the media to find the facts first.
Three facts that are supportable RIGHT F’N NOW are:
1) They took away their security. 2) They did nothing to help them on 9/11/2012. 3) They lied about the video.
Get the ball rolling with facts! The facts are damning by themselves. They are proof of incompetence and idiocy by the entire Obama administration.
Maybe you are right? Maybe they are NOT tin foil hat conspiracies! However, Until someone finds the facts and the proof, you will be looked at as a conspiracy nut. And we have enough of those already on the left and the right (and in my own family). Conspiracy nuts are not helpful.
Note RE AC-130, a 25 caliber is the size of a pimps pocket gun. A 25mm, well that is another story.
The orbital altitude of the AC-130 is likely to vary with OpSec but it is cable of putting steel on target at altitudes over 10k feet.
Okay Rd, lets look at the facts:
Number One: Right now our Administration’s open policy is to back the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt.
Number Two: It was our Administration’s policy to arm the rebels- whomever they were- in Libya, during the Libyan war. It was a no brainer that Al Qaeda or it’s affiliates would be getting our weaponry. We now have 10-20,000 ManPads unaccounted for.
Number Three: Of the Rebels fighting in Libya, there was no reasonable way to ascertain whether they were “friendlies” or not. The reasonable assumption given the situation is that the vast majority were not friendly to American interests or to American concepts of Human Rights. Over and over again when given the choice, those Arab populations have opted for Sharia Law, which at best treated we infidels are second class citizens.
Number Four: We have evidence of shipments of arms from Libya to Syria. We also have evidence of large warehouses operated by the CIA for some purpose in Benghazi.
Number Five: There are numerous reports that Ambassador Stevens was recruiting and arming the rebels as a part of Administration policy during the Libyan war. There are also numerous, credible reports that Ambassador Stevens was recruiting fighters against Assad after the war.
Now if you believe the good Ambassador could sort out the “good guys” in Benghazi, great. But the credible idea is that if Stevens thought he could find friendly fighters for the American cause, I doubt very much he would have been looking in Benghazi, the nasty rebel Islamist stronghold.
Now, maybe one could say that it has not been certifiably proven that this Administration has been running guns to Syria, although there is considerable evidence to that notion. However, it is a fact – I repeat it is a fact – that this Administration has been aiding and abetting the Islamist cause, no matter what excuses you want to make, throughout the various Arab Spring uprisings, in Egypt, Libya and Syria.
The gun running/ Libyan arms transshipment angle has been advanced by Russia, straight up.
Folks, we’re dealing in spook land. Dr Mabuse is NEVER going to get the goods/ find the bottom of that rabbit hole. Even the pros can’t.
The idea that the Wan wanted to cough up his ambassador so that he could fecklessly trade away the blind murderer to make Cairo happy is too far fetched.
For starters: having ANY Salafist outfit snatch the Ambassador right in front of the election is a complete vote killer. The Peanut proved that.
Next, it would require the President to assume the position of risk.
And, he’d have to keep the Ambassador in the blind — all the way. To be a Salafist hostage for even one hour is a nightmare.
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For Clinton and Obama to run guns/ finance the anti-Assad players is a no-brainer. Previous American administrations have, on multiple occasions, supplied Com bloc weapons to proxy armies only loosely allied with America. So, to do so at this time would NOT represent a break from bipartisan foreign policy tactics going back decades. Clinton could argue precedent.
And, such a gambit would entirely fit the template of leading from behind: Qatar and KSA would be ‘on point’ — which, by the way, they were when the Duck of Death was on the ropes.
(Cue historical record.)
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It’s a matter of quasi-public knowledge* that Turkey has set up an anti-Assad HQ in southern Anatolia — using NATO ( USA ) assets. (Think advanced communication gear.)
* Apparently, based upon this thread, it’s still news that the anti-Assad operation actually has such a headquarters.
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Syria is hooked by its umbilical to Tehran. Iran is paying for Assad’s hard money weapons imports — including super advanced clones of our Patriot D anti-aircraft missile.
When Assad falls, simply no end of loose ends will become unraveled. Many of those ends will be atomic.
( Syria has a VERY substantial phosphate deposit. Because of its chemistry, Uranium is easily extracted as a byproduct of phosphate fertilizer production. — Even very low concentrations are easily extracted from solution. )
Having access to ‘black’ / unmonitored Uranium concentrates is a keystone of the Iranian atomic program.
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Beyond that, Tehran is enthused with building an empire, westward. Iraq and Damascus are in the fold, already.
The Vice-President of Iraq has claimed that massive IRGC shipments are already motoring across Iraq to Syria. He would be in a position to know.
So what we have is a weird war wherein the anti-Assad elements are a hodge podge of politics and purposes. Whereas, the pro-Assad elements are pro-despotic, empire builders — if not re-builders.
For Putin, the fall of Assad would be a spanking — and no help on the arms sales front.
For Tehran, the fall of Assad would be an implosion of the imperial dream. It would also lead to very unpleasant gambits against their atomic weapons program.
( No one builds a vast IRBM force without atomics to ride them, period. )
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As to outing just how feckless the President is: that’s the LAST thing on Earth one could ever have official access to. To ask for such proofs is to be naive in the ways of Washington. A century must pass before such damning records would be released.
Look how long it took for Kennedy’s wanton ways with his whores to become public. Most Americans are still in the dark about his personal health and foibles.
Unsk – “Just look at that “Fast and Furious” conspiracy.”
Yeah, just look at it. Even though that harebrained scheme HAS been proved, what bloody good has it done you? You said it yourself – the media has whitewashed the whole thing and the American people barely know about it and care less. So why are you so eager to hop on the treadmill and do it all over again? And against greater odds: F&F took place just across the U.S. border, and Americans were killed right in this country. Libya is on the other side of the ocean, in a confusing post-war state and a completely alien culture. What makes you think this exposé will be the one that will pierce the media shroud protecting Obama, if by some remote chance you get genuine believable evidence of what happened?
rd is right – there’s more than enough in what happened within a few square feet of the White House that night to destroy Obama’s presidency. But the work to make it stick will never get done if we’re too busy chasing exciting foreign will o’ the wisps on the promise that they’ll yield bigger game eventually.
Dr…
What makes it different is that NATO and British leaks abound for Benghazigate — while the F&F fiasco is almost entirely ‘domesticated.’
The only players shining a spot light on it with any impact are Mexican.
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So the answer is: Fleet Street. They are the route to the dark tower.
They have deep access to the event — and have every reason to blab.
Most of the worst stuff to come out has come by way of the British press.
Items such as the weird contract that the State Department had with a Welsh firm to hire Libyans for Benghazi ‘security.’
And, it goes on down from there.
THAT’S why the Libyan angle is pivotal — actual ground truth from Libya can’t be spun by the WH.
Whereas, the spin on events back at the WH, which you so declaim, is forever under the aegis of Axelrod & Co.
Meaning: it’s a fouled trail — too much spoor to track home.
I’d assume, at this point, that you are functionally a ‘concern troll.’
Your ambit is as productive as waiting for Godot. The maladministration is a fortress of deceit. Aiming your ‘guns’ there is to take your attention away from where it would actually find its mark.
We need blabby — and Arabs — particularly Salafists — can’t shut up.
blert – “I’d assume, at this point, that you are functionally a ‘concern troll.’”
Your assumption is as wrong as it is insulting. I don’t expect much from someone whose impatience at not scoring a quick victory leads him to fall back on personal insults. And since this is my fourth and last allowed post on this thread, I’ll add that a gentleman does not arm wrestle a lady to get the last word.
#46 Annoy Mouse
Significantly over 10K, I believe. As a notational MANPAD of the type under discussion, the SAM-7 [latest model being the Strela-2M] has an altitude envelope of 50-2300 meters or 164-7545 feet. That leaves the explanations for the behavior of our chain of command [assuming that MANPADS were the reason] that no one in the group had any idea of the ranges and limitations involved on either side, having never been exposed to military reality; or that they callously wrote off the American lives. Or both.
I’m betting on both.
Subotai Bahadur