The Silent Debate
The public policy set might think the forthcoming presidential contest revolves around Benghazi or some other weighty foreign policy issue, because that’s the space they intellectually inhabit. But for many voters life revolves around the gas station, the supermarket and the credit card bill. The kitchen table is what they inhabit and in that space the issues are real simple.
Rosalind Helderman of the Washington Post says that many GM workers in Defiance, Michigan are voting for Obama — even though some hate everything he culturally stands for, like abortion — simply because he gave them a job. Even so Helderman thinks Obama may lose Defiance. Still, in the words of one worker ‘he had my back and now I have his’. Things are simpler for coal miners in Virginia where the President’s “war on coal” has made him about as popular as skunk at a lawn party.
“The only promise Obama kept was to kill coal,” said Jerry Shortt, a coal miner from Richlands who was laid off temporarily right after Labor Day — and learned Friday that for him, along with 189 other employees at the mine where he worked, the layoff would be permanent.
“You see all these people? I bet you a quarter of them’s laid off,” he said. “I know a lot of people that did [vote for Obama] that are not going to next time. Hope turned into damnation.”
Among the miners there was little to mitigate the disappointment.
Forget Benghazi. Forget the Pacific Pivot. Forget all that fancy stuff. Maybe the election to most voters is about whether you can put gas in the tank and a payment into the credit card. Someone was bound to be dissatisfied. The administration promised so many things on its way to office it was inevitable they had to choose whom to shaft — the peons of the Big Tent or the Ringmasters.
And they shafted the peons.
It would have helped if they hadn’t promised the Moon and the Stars. The Greek word for incessant talking and nonstop promising Victor Davis Hanson reliably informs us is “polypragmôn” — “someone who jumps from here to there, always talking, persuading, speechifying, but never really accomplishing anything.” Professor Hanson writes:
I had a lot of Obamas in class. They sat in the front of the room, posed long eloquent questions, mellifluously interrupted the lectures with clever refinements and qualifications, often self-referenced all that they had read and done — and then pow!: you grade their first test and there is simply nothing there: a D or F. It was quite stunning: how could a student be so confident in his rhetoric and so dismal in his performance?
Surely I thought this test must be some terrible mistake (did his mother just die? Had she came down with mononucleosis? Is this a fluke, a once-in-a-lifetime bad day?). And then he takes the midterm and then the final and then turns in the paper — each effort proves more pathetic than the last. Yet in class the next day, there he is again, raising his hand, pouring out clever phraseology and eloquent exempla, as if he has not just flunked his test and is getting an F.
In that view Obama’s words simply wrote a check his actions could not cash. But it’s not quite that bad. Barack Obama has paid some debts; it wasn’t a complete bust; simply that he could only keep a limited number of the innumerable promises that he made.
Naturally he chose to satisfy the moneybags of the Democratic Big Tent — he needed a campaign fund after all. The gay marriage, third worlders, one worlders and green energy people got what they wanted. The coal miners got the shaft. As the American Spectator noted in its piece on coal miners, it’s cannons to the left of them, cannons to the right of them.
“They come at us on the air side. They come after us on the water side. They’ve stopped the permits, so that’s like starving us. And EPA has started… allowing various anti-coal groups to run things into the ground.”
Sure. Those were promises made to some other section of the Big Tent.
Jay Cost notes that enthusiasm for the President is down from its historic 2008 highs even in the Black Community. It’s a vote he needs. “In 2004, John Kerry won 88 percent of the black vote, which made up 11 percent of the total electorate. In 2008, Obama won 95 percent of the black vote, which made up about 13 percent of the electorate. That means Obama’s increase in support relative to Kerry won him about 3.5 million extra votes, or nearly 40 percent of his total margin over John McCain.”
But he may not get it again — at least not on the same scale as 2008. The probable reason for the decline in enthusiasm is economic. African Americans have been ravaged by unemployment.
The Pew Charitable Trusts’ Economic Mobility Project recently released a report projecting that 68 percent of African-Americans reared in the middle of the wealth ladder will not do as well as the previous generation.
In August, the National Urban League’s State of Black America 2012 report found that nearly all the economic gains that the black middle class made during the last 30 years have been wiped out by the economic downturn.
“This is a very dire situation,” said Valerie Rawlston Wilson, an economist with the National Urban League Policy Institute. “Even for blacks who have college degrees, we’ve seen a doubling of their unemployment (rate) between 2007 and 2010.”
They’re hurting. And if the adage is “you have my back I have yours”, its converse is “you shaft me, I shaft you”. It’s probably that simple. The root of President Obama’s current slide in the polls — some have him trailing by an increasing margin in the electoral college — isn’t from Mitt Romney’s scintillating debating skills. It’s not messaging, nor the quality of his ads. It’s not any of that “polypragmôn” stuff.
Even if it’s true that the President has prepared a “secret deal” with the Iranians which he will triumphantly unveil at the debate it may have limited appeal. Iran is far away. The grocery store is round the block.
President Obama’s problem is simple. He has not produced. He is running against his record and his record is winning.
Belmont Commenters
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Secondary reasons why Obama may not get as much of the black vote as last time are:
1. As revealed by an open mic Jesse Jackson gaffe in ’08, many blacks observed a snottiness towards them by Obama. Blacks opted for racial solidarity anyway because of the opportunity presented at the time
2. African-Americans are proportionately the most socially conservative of identifiable American groups. Gay marriage in particular doesn’t sit well with a whole lot of them. It was black and Latino voters who provided the margin in California for Prop 8 even though they also voted for Obama.
There’s a bumper sticker out there that is so rare to see that it is virtually virtual. Yet it is quite possible that the punch line of the bumper sticker is stuck in the heads of a great many people all across the spectrum.
Don Rodrigo part 2 is reinforced by this video of ticked off black pastors.
To the guy – and all his legion – who have Obama’s back and vote for him any way since Obama had his back:
1. That’s immoral. Obama bribed him (with our money), and he is merely lining up for more. He is nothing less than a moral disgrace.
2. He is legion and that is America’s number one problem today. He is a bad person and there are too many bad people. We sow what we reap and it is a bumper crop.
3. They have each other’s backs and they collude to stab America in the back.
For as long as we put up with crummy rats like him is as long as we suffer the consequences.
“The coal miners got the shaft”
You should be ashamed of yourself.
“The coal miners got the shaft”
You should be ashamed of yourself.
Blogging is not my first choice activity. I would have been a doctor, but I didn’t have the patience. I might have been a baker, but I didn’t have the dough.
It may take a lot more suffering before the blacks finally decide to forget about the color of a candidate’s skin; Or maybe, it will take a lot of prosperity to accomplish that.
I have always been aware of the totem pole of Dem politics. The big Money is at the top, of course. Trial lawyers; Teachers; Unions; Gays; Hispanics; Women; Blacks. They take the women and blacks for granted, of course. The guys with money demand satisfaction for their money, and money makes the political world go around. You cannot win without money. So, the Dems would prefer to do without the women and blacks, rather than do without the money. It’s a no-brainer.
“Blogging is not my first choice activity. I would have been a doctor, but I didn’t have the patience. I might have been a baker, but I didn’t have the dough.”
Strenuously disagree. Given your way with words, it’s only write that you should be a blogger.
Re #5.
Thank you.
My monitor needed cleaning, anyway.
Wretchard quoted VDH:
“I had a lot of Obamas in class. They sat in the front of the room, posed long eloquent questions, mellifluously interrupted the lectures with clever refinements and qualifications, often self-referenced all that they had read and done — and then pow!: you grade their first test and there is simply nothing there”
Many years ago in graduate school I took a physics course in gravitation (general theory of relativity). I was an aeronautical engineering student and had convinced two other aeronautical engineers to take the course with me. We naively thought that we might learn something about warp drives and/or worm holes.
There were about 20 guys in the class, most of them graduate students in physics. During class, the physics students asked very erudite questions and appeared to have good understanding of the material. I on the other hand, did not feel like I belonged amongst such brilliant scholars and was having a very difficult time following the material, e.g. it was mostly tensor calculus and very high level math. Eventually the first problem set came out and it was a total blow out (I could not answer a single question). I asked the other two aeronautical engineers how they found the material and they told me that they had already dropped the course (too difficult). I was just about to do the same but swallowed my pride and went to go to the professor’s office to ask for some help. As I walked through the door of his office, the professor was initially rather gruff, asked me my name, I told him and his whole attitude changed (he suddenly became very friendly and helpful). I asked why his attitude changed (after all, I was only an engineer, not a physicist and had no right being in his class). The professor responded that I was the only guy who was actually taking the course for credit. All of the physics students were only auditing the course. Apparently only three guys had initially signed up for actual credit and the other two guys (the other aeronautical engineers) had dropped the course…..
He is running against his record and his record is winning.
That’s the crux of this debate, he managed not to have *any* record except his imaginary birth certificate and autobiography, right through November 2008. Now he has *a* record, whatever it is, and in pure Alinsky form he can be pinned to it, and any fixed fortification can be destroyed or bypassed. That’s why Obambus’ own campaign is about the future, forgetting the last four years. Ignoring Benghazi. Handwaving and throwing mud, when he can’t get turds.
–
I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
–
Somehow I doubt Obambus ever spoke up in class, people would remember him if he did.
If he ever went to class in the first place.
–
Two hydrogen atoms meet. One says, ‘I’ve lost my electron.’ The other says, ‘Are you sure?’
The first replies, ‘Yes, I’m positive.’
8. George Atkisson
The pun-ishment will continue until morale improves.
THE BIG TENT
The Democrat big tent seems big on the outside, but on the inside there is only room for cronies and hustlers and mountebanks.
Across the waving field of grain
Outlined against an azure sky
A giant tent rose strong and plain
No signs or banners raised on high
But all who saw it knew quite well
That it was refuge from the storm
A mother’s arms when ill befell
A place of comfort, snug and warm
And so perhaps it once was so
Back in the day, before the One
Filled up the tent with friends of O
Till space for workers there was none
The promises that once were made
From lips and tongue that seemed sincere
Were seen to lose their shine and fade
And so as voting time draws near
The working men who once believed
The big tent was for them as well
Are now upset and much aggrieved
And angry as the pollsters tell
The story of the coming rout
The landslide Romney has in store
As working men who’ve been shut out
Stream to the polls and cry No More!
Back at Josh,
Heisenberg is barreling down the road in his Mercedes and gets pulled over for speeding.
The cop asks him, “Do you know how fast you were going?” Heisenberg answers, “No, but I know exactly where I am.”
“You wise ass,” the cop replies and starts clubbing Heisenberg with his nightstick.
Heisenberg pleads, “How long will this beating last?” The cop replies, “I don’t know, I only know how much energy I will expend.”
eggplant…
It’s even worse: he didn’t even know what state he was in.
Basically, the same reason Jimmy Carter lost. The historical similarities from that era are truly eerie.
The GoP needed credible black spokesmen for the last four years pounding away on the Otherness of Barack Obama. He comes from Another Country, and it isn’t James Baldwin’s. At best he is The Brother From Another Planet. This isn’t Birtherism, although that may be one explanation and the natural born citizen rule should make more sense to people now than it has in decades. The good news in this is that it absolves Blacks of responsibility for, as well as any obligation of loyalty to, Obama. He really isn’t one of them.
Mooch on the other hand is a character from Central Casting. She’s their problem.
Buck…
If you really want a Halloween fright: think upon the consequences — longer term — that even Ronald the Great couldn’t deflect.
The Salafist bloom dates from the Peanut.
————
If Mitt is serious about America’s finances then surely we must cut off Pakistan, Yemen and Somalia from free food.
It is, at bottom, the true source of jihad.
I live in SW Indiana, they mine some coal here too.
The yard sign I love goes like this:
COAL FIRE
OBAMA
onesimus
No matter how much you push the envelope, it will remain stationery.
19. Josh
No matter how much you push the envelope, it will remain stationery.
Stamp it and it will go postal.
A pun is just a play on words
Some think should be unlawful
Especially those from Wretchard’s nerds
That go from bad to offal
My prescription for tonight’s debate…
Wretchard #5:
I think if you had chose farming you would be out standing in your field.
Then again, you might have tried being a barbed wire salesman and gotten hooked on it.
Eggplant #9: I had a somewhat similar experience with a Physics course in crystalline structure. Just remember, there is no such thing as “science”; there is only that which quickly becomes practical engineering and that which is only unfounded speculation.
I hear anecdotal evidence, here and other places, that blacks this time have seen what Obama has done for them, and what he has done to them, and while they will not be voting for Romney they will not be voting for anyone. It appears Obama has some negative coattails, and if so this will also impact other Democrat candidates.
Despite this, a recent poll for Ohio showed Obama with a 5 point lead over Romney. It turns out that they assumed a 9% greater turnout for Democrats than for Republicans. Obama benefited from an 8% turnout of Democrats over Republicans in 2008. So now these pollsters assume a 1% further improvement in turnout for Obama. That would seem unlikely.
While I find myself amused — even energized — by the quantum of humor here tonight (almost as welcome as a quantum of solace!) I confess that I am highly uncertain as to its appropriateness, given that something so big is on the line.
I refer, of course, to the San Francisco Giants Game!
Jamie Irons
24. Jamie Irons
I refer, of course, to the San Francisco Giants Game!
You do know that the Pope is rooting for the Cardinals?
Ahhhhhh! youse guys are da best! I am now reliving my Henny Youngman years!
Seriously tho, It is people like the union dude who will be the death of our great nation.
EBL (#22)
I hadn’t thought about the Cuba Libre for a very long time.
When I was 18 my family moved to Monterrey, Mexico. My dad was one of the early North American industrialist-capitalist types to work down there (he was with General Electric). While we waited for our house to be ready, we lived for a few weeks in a hotel, and one evening I went down to the bar and ordered that concoction of rum and coke. I spoke Spanish, and the bartender handed me my drink and with a wink and a snort said, “Cuba Libre, what a joke!” This was surprising to me; I didn’t expect my Mexican friends to be so conservative.
But of course they’d been dealing with the P.R.I. for many years.
Jamie Irons
One correction – Defiance,Ohio
Here in Michgan, there’s less doubt – screwing the bondholders and throwing 150 years of established bankruptcy procedures out the window was a stupendously brilliant thing to do.
PA Cat (#25)
Good one!
Jamie Irons
Jamie of course knows that P.R.I.= Partido Revolucionario Institucional – The Institutional Revolutionary Party…
That is certainly IRONIC, eh?
Mad Fiddler (#30)
Ironic indeed!
The name was 2/3 apropos: they were certainly rigidly institutional, and jealously guarded their institutional prerogatives. And they knew how to party, on the backs of the people.
Wait a second! Doesn’t that describe the “regime,” as Rush calls the Obamanians?
Jamie Irons
ebl @ 22: My prescription for tonight’s debate…
1 bottle of Mescal.
When the worm is gone, get on camera and explain what happened at Benghazi.
At least I heard that’s what Obambus is doing.
No third debate open thread? Bummer.
But, Romney is crushing it in this final debate.
Walt @ 12 mountebank
Obama in a word. Beautiful.
So the debate has begun.
It’s so bizarre, especially because NO ONE ACKNOWLEDGES THE 180 degree reversal the Left has made – Obama bragging about his recent invasion of Libya, done without consulting Congress, without a single resolution of endorsement or approval from the SACRED UNITED NATIONS, done for the single purpose of insuring the continued supply of Libyan Light Sweet Crude petroleum to the European refineries which are not equipped to process Heavy Sour petroleum, which seems to be much more readily available…
His defenders screech that he’s been killing Terrorists more effectively with the high-flying drones – sending Hellfire missiles into the hovels and homes of presumed terrorists from tens of thousands of meters above the hot sands.
Yay.
Maybe.
Wasn’t it the Left, the Democrats, the Progressives that have been screaming at the rest of us for decades that every time we kill a terrorist, we merely create a hundred MORE terrorists?????
Oh, I get it: any time a Conservative kills a terrorist it creates a hundred more. When a LIB kills a terrorist, the intrinsic JUSTness of a Morally Superior Being acting in accord with the unquestioned authority of Liberal Progressive GENEROUS Loving Judgment, can do only RIGHT…
My @$$.
They are a pack of leprous lying scum, who constantly change the rules to suit themselves.
@ wretchard
“The coal miners got the shaft”
You should be ashamed of yourself.
“Blogging is not my first choice activity. I would have been a doctor, but I didn’t have the patience. I might have been a baker, but I didn’t have the dough.”
I say, “and you might have been a prison guard but, you just wasn’t into punn-ishment.”
Wretchard called it: Frank Luntz’s focus group says, even in the foreign policy debate it was all about the economy. Mitt won the economy, they say, and that’s what counted.
Charles K and Pat B both thought it was a clear win for Mitt. Did what he had to do, looked presidential, “Obama went small, petty, and Mitt went big picture,” strong America, we don’t dictate to other countries we liberate them, and all that.
The rope a dope strategy was all Mitt’s idea, according to his team. Seems like the right move. Krauthammer thinks he might just have won the election.
I’m supremely depressed after that debate tonight. There were so many opportunities to slam home a victory for Romney tonight, and Romney wouldn’t pull the trigger. I get that he was playing not to lose, to protect the lead, and look presidential. I also think Obama looked condescending, small, and desperate at times. However, I just can’t shake the thought that this was a disaster for Romney, similar to how bad the first debate was for Obama.
This was a foreign policy debate with Barack Hussein Obama. Obama is even less competent in foreign policy than he is on economics, and yet Romney couldn’t differentiate himself. He couldn’t illustrate Obama’s failures. He didn’t want to. It is truly in God’s hands now.
Someone give me a pep talk. I fear Romney threw away his lead tonight, and may have cost himself the election. May God forgive us for the evil we’re bringing to the world.
Cetera… perhaps it’s something you et…
But the THINKING vote is not at issue.
Mitt is out to WOO the low information voter — not uncommonly unmarried and female.
I believe that is EXACTLY what he has achieved.
He’s countering emotionally laden negative adverts that fulsomely congest the swing state airwaves.
For that particular demographic trudging down into the morass of the Wan’s deflections and excuses is a complete turn off — no matter how attractive such a scrum might be to you.
blert, I hope you’re right. I just can’t help but think that is exactly what Obama did in debate #1, and it backfired hugely. The circumstances are a little different, but similar enough to be troubling. Whiskey would point out no woman likes a beta, and I don’t think Romney was an alpha tonight.
Instead, Romney seems to demonstrate that he lacks the killer instinct to end it with his opponent once and for all. He wasn’t inside Obama’s OODA loop. He wasn’t orienting on what Obama was saying at all. He wasn’t identifying flaws in his record. It is like he suddenly fell afoul of the wrong side of Wretchard’s post about passive resistance, and hoped it would carry the day. It seems a huge mistake to me to leave the debates the same way his opponent entered, ceding the ground to Obama. The Luntz group unanimously thought Obama won this final debate.
Romney did seem to try and time his biggest hits for half-time against the NFL. I noticed he put his watch back on when he stood up at the end, and it looks like he had it next to his water where he may be able to see it. I don’t think he did enough.
40. Cetera
The Luntz group unanimously thought Obama won this final debate
………….
The Luntz group thought that obama would do a better job of foreign policy. But that Romney would do a better job of growing the economy. They also bought the arguement that in order to have a strong foreign policy you have to have a strong economy.
In short they judged that obama got debaters points & could be said to “win” the debate. But that was of secondary importance.
The guy had one job he had to do – get the economy going and Americans back to work. Instead he did Obamacare, green energy, and gay marriage. Now he has a problem. Lucky for him he also has a pension.
On the flip side we may be rid of this dipstick community organizer but we are now stuck with Romney whose greatest achievement so far is that he could actually spell out all the ways in which Obama had failed and who may or may not actually believe in much of anything.
I believe Romney has won the election and a man I feared will be replaced in office but am not sure I feel like a winner.
I was able to listen to only part of the debate, did not watch any of it; radio is still a wonderful medium.
On the radio Obama sounded more certain, focused and incisive, Romney sounded like he was flailing and weak, short of facts. Of course Obama’s fact were mostly wrong, but the low information voter wouldn’t be expected to know that. I thought that Romney would pound him but he did not. Obama certainly took the opportunity to pound Romney, to which Romney seemed to make no coherent reply.
t @ 43: On the radio Obama sounded more certain, focused and incisive
Interesting. Romney speaks like a technocrat, Obama always is declamatory and usually defamatory.
Visually, Romney was rock steady. About the only steadiness in Obama was staring at Romney like eight year olds in a contest – no doubt more of a fix from debate #1. Other than that Obama was sort of fidgety. I wonder if they didn’t give him just a *touch* too much of that stay-awake powder.
The leftwads will no doubt celebrate Obama’s “energy”, but of course they would celebrate all the more if he got up and danced on the table.
Actually, I think both men did a better job on this debate than on either of the previous, but if you like facts, or coherence, almost independent of the policy issues, Romney wins.
42. Joe Hill
Its conventional wisdom that Romney will turn the economy around. Something I agree with. He’ll be a good manager. He’ll do things like repeal obamacare and dod frank. He might also do the sort of tax rejiggering that would make it profitable for US companies to repatriate their overseas profits. These things will return the animal spirits to the US economy.
If he’s president for eight years–that will be about long enough for the US to become energy independent if production keeps rising at current rates. As well, there will be a couple energy innovations that will come onstream in the next eight years that will be pretty impressive and maybe some surprises. Romney won’t have had much to do with them but he’ll get the credit.
Energy independence and cheaper energy will begin the long process of recapitalizing the USA.
The next great industrial revolution will work around 3d printing. In this as well, Romney will get credit without having had much to do with the actual revolution. Except that DARPA is currently funding research to give the US military the ability to produce whatever they need onsite. The idea is to kill the supply line. This would represent and immense revolution in logistics. As well, it would put in place one of the ingredients needed to place colonies on the moon and elsewhere in space. It will also bring back to the USA a lot of manufacturing that has gone overseas to places like China.
Likely Romney will tighten the border and make it tougher for illegals to stay in the country.
I don’t think Romney will do anything on the social issues. It would be hoped that he might nominate conservative supreme court judges. But you never know. Republican presidents have a way of nominating court judges who look conservative and turn out to be not so much.
Cetera @ 38:
Buck up. Romney destroyed Obama tonight. Romney had to demonstrate competence in foreign policy, Obama had to demonstrate mastery.
Romney managed to tie foreign strength with domestic vigor. In other words, Romney made it about the American economy. His points were justifiable.
Obama’s great foreign policy triumphs were all hidden. Obama’s got very little to stand on.
He’s toast, barring disaster.
Thank God!
I am not sure there isn’t something else at work as well in this election.
If you look at Obama’s body language in public. The way he dresses on the campaign and just generally his mannerism and demeanor he is very off-putting.
The sports jacket with no tie just looks sloppy for example. He’d be better off in blue-jeans and a work shirt than that.
He also appears to be nervous, uncomfortable and by turns to belligerent or too tentative.
I think there are a fair number of voters, I don’t know the percentage that will not vote for him simply because of these things
There are just so many little things he does that don’t look presidential
It is all a question of the length of people’s memories.
Obama’s campaign posters should be amended to: “Hope and change. And amnesia”
Cuz that’s what he’s counting on. That and the legion of lies that pass for clarity and sense of purpose.
I actually watched this debate–had to stay up till 5am for it all, but at least it was interesting to see it.
Why? At first, I thought Obamsterbation was mopping the floor with Romney–the latter ignored Libya, went off on a lot of blather, while Obama went on the attack against Romney immediately–not even a smile or nod at Romney’s attempt at a witticism re: the Al Smith dinner. The Bamster was humorless. And, I thought at first, effective.
I felt like I had ants doing a military tattoo on me, so I found other things to do while I listened.
But eventually, esp with Bam’s stupid “We have ships that go under water, and ships that planes land on,” I had to sit back down and stare at the two of them. Obama started out snippy, jumping on Romney from the get-go, but turned snarky and finally (with the “ships that go under water”) was incredibly patronizing. (As well as–and this is a feat–sounding utterly stupid in the process.)
From an Oxford Union debate standpoint (I imagine) that was a winning take-down, but it felt more like Jon Stewart or something. Most of all, I imagined how our undecided, unmarried women would feel about it: a great many of them, I suspect, would H.A.T.E. that patronizing demeanor. Literally loathe it, because, of course, immature idiot males of our post-masculine culture would have subjected them to it often enough.
So, we’ll see. I hear The Donald has called a press conference for today or tomorrow, sometime soon, for something big.
Whatever.
An Préachán
Charles – “The next great industrial revolution will work around 3d printing.”
I have been using 3D printing for about 20 years. Until we can directly print metal that is not only as strong as the wrought product but as strong as forged materials we best keep the supply lines open. 3D printing has been advancing in leaps and bounds but mostly on price. Insitu arms manufacturing is not on the horizon nor is space grade habitation made using macro lithography processes. FWIW I think we ought to prototype all Mars exploration and habitation on the moon. If we can’t do it their forget the red planet.
Interesting thought though.
Wretchard #5
Seems you’re in good company:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2221832/Superman-quits-job-The-Daily-Planet-online-blogger.html
As for who “won” the debate, CNN calls it for the CiC. That’s right, CNN. (Which ought to worry Obama more than a litte….)
2 weeks before the election.
Obama plays to his base, Romney the middle.
That alone shows where this race is.
And the candidates know it.
“Until we can directly print metal that is not only as strong as the wrought product but as strong as forged materials we best keep the supply lines open.”
True. Answer = Nanotechnology.
“ships that go under water”
Boats, submarines are always called boats.
Blink rate is indicative of anxiety. Teh Won, off the scales, Rambler cruising at normal.
Horses, bayonets, aircraft carriers & submarines:
Not funny, not serious, snarky, superficial and condescending.
Where is the positive? What is the gain in demeaning your opponent?
It shows the barely hidden contempt and negative opinion Teh Won has for his challenger. BTW, what do horses and bayonets have to do with ships, other than the USMC, which uses bayonets to this day, is transported aboard USN vessels…
tom
ap @ 49: From an Oxford Union debate standpoint (I imagine) that was a winning take-down,
Only if (as it sadly was) unreplied to. A simple, “the enemy has them too, Mr. President”, would have been sufficient.
Geoffrey Britain – “True. Answer = Nanotechnology.”
It can take a couple of days to print a 8″ x 8″ cube shape with a layer resolution of .007″ yielding a low density plastic that is semiporous. I know there is better technology available but not by several orders of magnitude. Printing atoms could be a very long and tedious process. chemical vapor deposition is about is good as anything I am familiar with though I have been watching the Nano Materials ditty on Nova, I am familiar with most of those processes and am open to the fact that bio and nano are starting to converge. But until some major breakthroughs happen smelting metals seems to be the most efficient manner of recombining molecules. I am game but like green technology we have to work to get there and not count on government decree.
“Boats, submarines are always called boats.”
Yes and surface sea vessels are referred to as targets.
Come now Gentlemen, this is a time that cries out for poetry! What we need is a bit of wisdom and grit from a defender of Liberté against the forces of Revolution!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01i19qog8Pw
I think Romney played it smart. I wanted to see a bloody evisceration but that’s just my hatred of the scoundrel.
1. The post first debate bounce has not diminished-it’s actually grown and still growing;
2. The debates in 2012 are about presidential demeanor and perceived aptitude-with the surfeit of non-stop news and thousands of credible non-MSM sources anyone with half a brain has concluded that the economy sucks, the Middle East is a cluster and Obama is an incompetent, narcissistic ass. Nothing gained by attacking BO on failures that are self-evident; voters don’t need or even want details about GDP or Bengazi;
3. By acting presidential and mature, Romney makes the prez look as shallow, thin-skinned desperate, angry and petulant child that he is;
4. A man’s character and demeanor are as important to most women as the issues. Who do they prefer?-A selfish, choom smoking, bi-polar ass or a stable, non-drinking, loyal, faithful, successful and secure male from central casting.
As much as I would pay good money to see Obama get pummeled, I think Romney played it smart. We’ll know for sure in two weeks but it appears that the stars are aligning and the cascade has begun.
Speaking of poets and singers, has anybody seen Herman Cain lately???
We ought to have him sing a few lines of a classic gospel song
This Little Light of Mine
I’m Gonna Let it Shine!
Even Bruce Springsteen can agree with that!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTebgVrHEVM
Romney has got to that show Republicans can appeal to Blacks, just as they did in the days of Abraham Lincoln (R-IL).
Lee Atwater would smile!
And maybe a bit of a few Mormons singing
“In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea…”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpZ3jPMM5Ac
Just wondering if any others at BC noticed Obama’s response to the question about Israel. I listened online so the tone and the wording jumped out. When Obama said he’d “stand by Israel” in the event of a strike by Iran, I thought saying this allowed him to seem supportive without actually stating that he’d consider such a strike as a strike against the US.
Like some others, I was frustrated, at first, by Romney’s genial, non-confrontational style, especially in the first half hour. However, I do agree with the comment by 59. dlsada that it was wise of him not to take the fight to Obama. I thought his concluding statement was quintessentially American. It had heart and vision and it brought the tears to my eyes.
#57,
Quite right. I wouldn’t be surprised if its a couple of decades before we start to see the beginnings of the practical applications of the nanotechnology revolution. But a revolution it will be. Even at the start, cost and simplicity will probably be where cell phones were when they first became available. 50 years from now it will be taken for granted.
I did not like the third debate. I thought it was an embarrassment to America. Obama personified the stereotype of the Ignorant American who doesn’t know there is another Athens outside of Georgia. I’m amazed Obama knows that a submarine is not always a sandwich. At least Romney had the sense to stay away from the teen-aged girl’s view of “foreign policy” and look like an adult, even if a slightly bemused one.
As President, Obama should have been able to lay out his administration’s approach to foreign policy and show how those general principles had been applied to specific cases. Never happened. Instead we get fish-wife taunts and a miraculous conversion where Obama suddenly proclaims that Al Quaeda is now the greatest threat to the U.S. when he’s been trumpeting its demise for months on end.
The fact that Obama has even a chance at re-election shows how much the U.S. has changed. I think this election is still a coin toss. That poor airborne quarter has been spun silly by perpetual partisan torquing. The most finely tuned antenna that I know of – my gut – isn’t happy right now. Let’s hope for a late anti-incumbent surge. You can’t run a country on spin and ignorance. God help America.
It wouldn’t hurt to remind Black voters that Romney did make an appearance before the NAACP, and by the end, got an ovation from a tough audience.
Yea-When it is obvious that your opponent is a “full-fledged” douche, one should not take on the extra burden or proving he’s a “weapons-grade” douche.
spindok @54
Aye. Ships that go underwater are simply sunk.
50. Annoy Mouse
Until we can directly print metal that is not only as strong as the wrought product but as strong as forged materials we best keep the supply lines open.
”””””’
Sounds about right. But it doesn’t look like DARPA is aiming at weapons. But rather the other stuff that goes into the supply train.
http://www.3ders.org/articles/20120530-darpa-crowd-sourcing-new-technologies-through-makers.html
DARPA crowd-sourcing new technologies through makers
May 30, 2012
The Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) revealed it will invest $3.5 million into TechShop, “a membership-based workshop that provides members with access to tools and equipment, instruction, and a community of creative and supportive people so they can build the things they have always wanted to make.”
TechShop currently operates 5 locations around the US, they are Menlo Park, Raleigh, San Francisco, San Jose, and Detroit. With the funding of DARPA, TechShop is able to open two new locations in Washington, DC, and Pittsburgh later this year.
This program as part of DARPA’s new Adaptive Vehicle Make program intends to “create a foundry to rapidly design and reconfigure manufacturing capabilities to support the fabrication of a wide array of military vehicles.”
Adaptive Vehicle Make (AVM) is a portfolio of programs that address revolutionary approaches to the design, verification and manufacturing of complex defense systems and vehicles. Another important feature of the Adaptive Vehicle Make program is its focus on crowd sourcing through its MENTOR program.
MENTOR (Manufacturing Experimentation and Outreach) focuses on engaging high school-age students in a series of collaborative design and distributed manufacturing experiments, including 3D printers. DARPA plans to have 1,000 schools in the program by the 2014-15 academic year.
How 3-D Printing Will Turn Homes Into Mini Factories
Consumer-grade multi-material printers could hit the market in the next decade. Here’s why that matters.
By Clay Dillow Posted 10.04.2012 at 4:36 pm 0 Comments
http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2012-10/how-3-d-printing-will-turn-homes-mini-factories
A Fab In Every Cage Michael Cho
In 1984, inventor Charles Hull built the first rapid-prototyping machine, a massive device that turned digital blueprints into plastic models constructed layer by ultrathin layer. Since then, 3-D printers have shrunk from room-filling behemoths to tabletop boxes just larger than a typical ink jet. They have also dropped in cost from hundreds of thousands of dollars to as little as $500. Home printing has flowered as a result, with amateurs “fabbing” anything in plastic, from cellphone cases to scale models of Rodin’s Walking Man. Yet such tinkering, however nifty, is simply 3-D printing’s first act. Its real promise is much greater: to turn every home into a self-sustaining manufacturing and recycling center.
The changes that will enable this tranformation are happening already. Presently, home printers fab in plastic, as Hull’s machine did. But industrial printers have evolved to print a multitude of materials, from glass to stone. Printer maker Objet has released the Connex500, a $250,000 printer that works in 14 polymers at once.
Researchers at the Cornell University Creative Machines Lab recently developed a machine that they used to print components vital to working electronics, as well as a functioning electromagnet and battery. Home printers are poised to follow a similar development curve. Hod Lipson, the Creative Machines Lab director, says consumer-grade multi-material printers are less than a decade away.
Rather than fab a plastic lamp shade, makers will print the components of the entire lamp.Just as the capability of printers is growing, so is the ecosystem of 3-D designs and design tools, making it easier and easier to print at home. At Thingiverse, makers can scour a database of thousands of downloadable designs. Autodesk design software converts digital snapshots of real-life objects into 3-D patterns. And Adobe is developing a program that evaluates designs for structural flaws before they are printed.
Alone, such advancements will turn home printing from a novelty to a necessity. (Rather than fab a plastic lamp shade, makers will print the components of the entire lamp, wiring, plug, and all.) But truly transformative change will come from another industry: recycling. Beginning in the 1970s, machines at recycling centers have ground discarded plastic into raw material that companies use to make everything from toys to carpeting.
Similar processes exist for metal and glass. In January, Tyler McNaney, a student at Vermont Technical College, debuted the Filabot, a machine that repurposes plastic at home. The tabletop device grinds and melts most recyclable plastic into the raw filament used in 3-D printers. If devices like Filabot succeed, makers will not only produce new objects in their workshops, but also repurpose old ones.
Five things that I wish that Romney had said,
1. You approved the LCS, that overpriced unseaworthy and not combat ready drain on precious resources.
2. Even the best ship on earth can only be in one place at a time. Every hear of the repair cycle? We need more carriers. The world is a dangerous place. Maybe the bad guys won’t be polite and wait to take turns.
3. If you want to avoid war then let the enemy see your strength. Boots ready to hit the ground and ships sitting off the coast are cheaper than war. Call the bad guys unsophisticated but they are more impressed by large physical forces ready to strike them than they are by small numbers of miracle weapons.
4. If all your eggs are in one very expensive irreplaceable basket then you deter yourself by not risking combat. That emboldens the enemy and makes you less safe. By having sufficient forces that the enemy knows that we are willing to close with them you deter the bad guys. That is what we want to do to keep the peace.
5. Submarines have been going under the water for 100 years Mr President. Where have you been?
Geoffrey Britain @ 53 said:
“Answer = Nanotechnology.”
NASA spent buckets of money on nanotechnology and came up with nothing. Where I work, I’m surrounded by ex-nanotechnology guys who changed careers after the bottom dropped out of nanotechnology. When I talk to ex-nanotechnology people, I ask them about what happened to nanotechnology and they’ll typically tell me that it has been superseded by biotechnology, i.e. all the things that were promised with nanotechnology can be done more easily with biotechnology. Also, when I ask a biotechnology guy about where his profession is going, he’ll typically come back and say “no where”. Apparently biotechnology problems like protein folding are too hard and too expensive to solve. Also my favorite technology for solving all of mankind’s ills, i.e. nuclear fusion is in even deeper trouble. The Great White Hope for fusion was the National Ignition Facility (NIF) at Lawrence Livermore National Lab. A zillion dollars was spent on NIF in the hope of achieving thermonuclear ignition. However despite all their computer models and many attempts, they have been unsuccessful and no one knows why. The hard truth is most of the obvious and easy technology problems have been solved and what’s left is very difficult (the low hanging fruit is gone).
70. Eggplant
imho the fusion biz will be cracked but not in any expected ways that have already cost billions of dollars. Neither LLNL or CERN will figure out this one.
Interestingly the guy who came up with the peak oil theory M King Hubbert also was a great believer in both uranium and thorium as energy sources.
http://www.mkinghubbert.com/
…………..
The hard truth is most of the obvious and easy technology problems have been solved and what’s left is very difficult (the low hanging fruit is gone).
…………..
The thorium story is a case of the (relatively) easy stuff being abandoned. They actually had working thorium reactors going from 1966-1970. They were shut down because they were not dual use.
70. Eggplant
and they’ll typically tell me that it has been superseded by biotechnology, i.e. all the things that were promised with nanotechnology can be done more easily with biotechnology
might be the exeception that proves the rule. But below is a link to a carbon nanotube company that makes super efficient membranes for desalination and water purification that promise to cut desalination energy costs to 1/4 current costs.
http://pbpa.info/company-aims-to-desalinate-fracking-water-a-1-6-billion-market/
about nanotechnology and the last assassination of the security responsible, a arab site says that that was made with a HBZ drone
http://mediarabe.info/spip.php?article2254
Charles,
A couple weeks ago, it was “Family Day” at Lawrence Livermore National Lab and I had the opportunity to tour NIF again (very impressive). At the end of the tour, they have these “NIF experts” who will answer any technical question you can ask about nuclear fusion. I am an aeronautical engineer and aneutronic nuclear fusion is often presented as the ultimate spacecraft propulsion technology. However I’ve long suspected that aneutronic fusion was bogus because the ignition temperatures were impossibly high. So I put the question to this “NIF expert” and she agreed that aneutronic fusion is not going to happen. Not surprising, the “NIF expert” was strongly of the opinion that inertial containment nuclear fusion was commercially feasible provided that NIF’s ignition problem could be solved. She was very clear that nothing happens unless the ignition problem is solved. This was sort of like saying the Rock of Gibraltar will fly provided it has big enough wings.
Charles@71 said:
“Interestingly the guy who came up with the peak oil theory M King Hubbert also was a great believer in both uranium and thorium as energy sources.”
M. King Hubbert was a very bright guy and correct about most things including thorium. Energy from thorium like energy from hydraulic fracking are old concepts. Supposedly hydraulic fracking was first used in 1947. However fracking was not economical so long as petroleum was so plentiful that all you had to do was poke a hole in the ground and high grade petroleum would bubble up on its own. There was no way that thorium could be economical if uranium based fission was being subsidized by the nuclear weapons industry.
Subsidizing uneconomical technology is a scary aspect about energy policy. We see this happening today with wind and solar energy. Something even more scary is “demand destruction”. Petroleum fracking like tarsands from Alberta are economical when the price of crude oil dances around $100/barrel. However when petroleum is that expensive then some of the demand is permanently destroyed and consequently the price of petroleum drops due to the law of supply-and-demand. It is conceivable that demand destruction could continue until the price of petroleum drops below the magic number of $70/barrel and many technologies like fracking become uneconomical. The main mechanism behind demand destruction is reduced standard of living expectations. For example, the price of gasoline drops if people opt to sell their cars and bicycle to work. This makes the moonbats smile but the automobile industry drives a large hunk of our economy and provides many jobs. Destroy that part of the economy and it will never return, i.e. permanent unemployment for a significant fraction of the population. Solar and wind power will not provide new jobs because those industries go “poof” as soon as the government subsidy goes away. That subsidy will go away as the value of the dollar evaporates due to money printing.
The ultimate 3D printing market is clothing. When women can see the latest celeb style, source the design and download it for fabbing it’ll put China out of the garment industry. And everybody else. Especially because you can download the item in your specific size (not generic size 5) and select the exact shade you want. The impact on UPS/FedEx and the container ship industry will be huge. Ditto for Amazon.com, Ebay, Craigslist, etc.
Unless IQs have plunged terribly here at the BC…
No one is overlooking the fact that you can’t burn Thorium at all — it has to be transmuted up into U-233.
Further, U-233 is the single quickest route to the atomic bomb — being the easiest nuclear explosive there is. It can be chemically separated from Thorium just like Plutonium can be chemically separated from Uranium.
As for the molten salt configuration that Charles constantly brings up: hot Fluorine atoms destroy any and all containments. Think of them as THE universal solvent. Just what will hold it?
While it is true that the Russians and the Americans had multiple test reactors working this line of inquiry — none were able to stay on line long enough to justify any attempt at constructing the next stage: a scale prototype of a power reactor. After a hundred days of running, every design befouled itself with materials breakdowns. Hot Fluorine destroys both metals and ceramics. So all molten salt designs founder upon materials: they depend upon unobtainium. We’ll have to rocket to Pandora to stock up.
————-
Hubbert’s projection founders upon politics. His math/ statistics utterly depends on a FLAT political landscape — where exploration is not curtailed by despotic interventions.
That’s not the world we live in.
Anyhow, fracking and the logical arts/ computing have entirely destroyed his statistics.
America, by itself, has blown clean through his wildest estimate of viable recoveries.
Indeed, the Peal Oil crew is destined to lie discarded on the scrap heap of innovation.
————–
Only fifty-five years ago computational experts predicted that digital machines were destined to hit the design wall because their very wiring complexity would make them prohibitive to construct correctly and because they would entirely saturate their marketplace: the whole world couldn’t possibly justify building 25,000 machines.
The silicon chip and layered virtual machine logic intervened. Now we make, globally, more than 25,000 computers per hour — all of which would be deemed super machines fifty years ago. The installed base is past 150,000,000 machines — just running Windows/MS-DOS. (!)
Before the next fifty years is out, there will be more computers than people, period.
——–
Other than Polywell Fusion, none of the fusion machines is remotely viable as a practical device. They are all massive neutron emitters.
Ultra high energy neutrons entirely destroy the economics of any design. You just can’t work with or around them for materials reasons.
If I were king for a day — I’d zero out all such funding — which exists solely for military gambits, anyway.
75. Vejadu
The ultimate 3D printing market is clothing.
…………
Yeah there’s a lot of players in that including DARPA. They want to create military clothing onsite. Just like the navy wants to create oil from seawater.
http://defensetech.org/2012/10/02/converting-sea-water-to-navy-jet-fuel/
hey you can’t make this stuff up.
76. blert
As for the molten salt configuration that Charles constantly brings up: hot Fluorine atoms destroy any and all containments. Think of them as THE universal solvent. Just what will hold it? After a hundred days of running, every design befouled itself with materials breakdowns.
…………
Can’t say I understand the details here.
What I do know is that the US had a working lftr design running at oak ridge labratories from 1966-1970. (I don’t know how frequently it broke down.)That the head of that labratory Alvin Weinberg felt so strongly about lftr –that he had a second design ready that didn’t get funded and and when it didn’t get funded he butted heads with the atomic energy commission and got fired for his troubles. he went to his grave saying to all who would listen that the US made a terrible mistake.
Alvin Weinberg not only profoundly believed in the thorium reactor designs he’d come up with–he also held the original patents on the light water reactor. Which is the design that’s currently used in the USA. It would be prudent to think of this guy as an authority on the subject.
Here’s one more. Edward Teller. He designed the first Hydrogen bomb.
“In his 90s, Teller worked with his former student, the engineer Ralph Moir, on one last project: designing a “safe” underground nuclear reactor that would run not on uranium but thorium, an element that can produce a nuclear reaction but which is all but unusable for making nuclear weapons. I learned of the paper — published in 2005 in the journal NUCLEAR TECHNOLOGY — during an interview with Moir for the Motherboard documentary The Thorium Dream, about the growing movement of engineers and amateur scientists pushing for a thorium-based nuclear fuel cycle.”
The design that Teller advocated was the lftr design. He gave details in his paper.
http://www.coal2nuclear.com/MSR%20-%20Moir%20-%20Teller%20Paper%20Association%20-%20moirtel.pdf
Teller is another guy it would not be prudent to discount on this subject.
Other than Polywell Fusion, none of the fusion machines is remotely viable as a practical device. They are all massive neutron emitters.
…………
Or a related design called Dense Plasma Focus.
blert @ 76 said:
“Further, U-233 is the single quickest route to the atomic bomb — being the easiest nuclear explosive there is.”
No, the quickest route to an atomic bomb and the easiest nuclear explosive is breeding plutonium-239 from natural uranium (U-238) and extracting the plutonium through the PUREX process, refer to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PUREX
The Syrians and Iraqis tried that approach but fortunately the Israelis stopped them. The United States successfully used that approach in WW-II to produce plutonium for the Trinity nuclear device and the Fat Man.
Most of blert’s comments concerning liquid fluoride thorium reactor technology are addressed in the Wikipedia article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_fluoride_thorium_reactor
The “NIF expert” that I earlier mentioned probably would suggest the technological solution to ultra high energy (fast) neutrons is to use a molten lithium jacket to breed tritium. This approach was displayed in the commercial nuclear fusion reactor design they were showing at NIF. However I remain skeptical that any form of nuclear fusion is economical as a source of electrical power including Polywell fusion. I say this with some dismay because I’d like to see nuclear fusion work as a spacecraft propulsion scheme.
Annoy Mouse @ 57:
Mechanical engineers make weapons systems.
Civil engineers make targets.
Charles – If thorium reactors were economical somebody would be stamping them out like twinkies.
Someone offered Romney an “October Surprise” and he said “no thanks”:
http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2012/10/president-obama-sold-cocaine-college-trump-charges-republicans-reject
My respect for Romney just went up a couple notches.
Extra credit question: How many milliseconds would you have to wait between offering and acceptance of that sort of dirt to an Obama operative?
R Daneel @ 81 said:
“If thorium reactors were economical somebody would be stamping them out like twinkies.”
Nuclear technology is political. The laws of economics do not apply. Also, Twinkies are yummy but they’re bad for me.
To Annoy Mouse, Eggplant, Charles and blert; thank you for an excellent, if maybe off topic, discussion about the state of all the “super-technology” I have been hearing about. Apparently industrial and energy revolutions are not around the corner. I have wondered if we are not at the top of an “S” curve as to high technology right now.
Eggplant I share your hopes for fusion propulsion for spaceships. I will only watch the spaceship scenes in 2001: A Space Odyssey, and wonder at what could still be. A moonbase is still possible and perhaps the “Nerva” (If I remember the name right.) nuclear rocket propulsion concept will work for getting to the asteroids and beyond.
I think that if we want to give the entire world a good standard of living we will need the resources of the solar system. One more note, after my time in Iraq I cannot remember the kids there I saw or interacted with and not want a good future for them. There was one little girl I was told about so wanting to learn about the US and world and do so in English. A free world following the lead and influence of the US and resources from the Earth and solar system are the only hope for her and so many other kids around the world. Yeah I know probably a pipe dream, but I pray that it is not.
Man, I just hate Obama so *bad*, you know? I’ve never been able to understand how this clown got elected. On his lengthy successful track record of what, exactly? It really spooked me when he was elected out of nowhere, and nobody knew much about him, and people were going gaga over him. It was like I couldn’t see something that everybody else could, and I didn’t like it. Now, of course, I’m 5x spooked after what the fed and he have done to the debt and the bond markets. Also I’m haunted by the idea of 2 or 3 more Obama appointees on the supreme court. We wouldn’t recognize this country by the end of his term, I’m guessing.
I’m one of those who believes it doesn’t much matter who wins from the perspective of saving our system…that’s likely beyond repair. But just as a matter of priniple I want Romney (who I don’t particularly care for) to win SO BADLY….
Wretchard: Your work as a blogger seems to have been spelled out for you from long ago. In my search for a field of study I thought of math on numerous occasions. I considered geology, but it was too hard. I got mixed up in chemistry, fiddled around with music, faithfully studied theology for a while, but in the long run I settled on history.
I’ve been in lots of classes and have taught lots of classes. And I’ve met all kinds of bullsh***ers in sports, in dorm rooms, in the military, working construction and in grad school. Obama is pure, 100% master of the fecal matter. But it took me a long time to learn, and I sadly see a lot of my fellow voters unable to see what Obama is and it worries me greatly.
to Blert at #76,
If Flourine atoms can be stripped of their outer electrons, would they not then be subject to containment by a “magnetic bottle?”
@84
He got elected because of racism and white female sexual fantasy. With a little white guilt thrown in. Blacks voted for him due to his skin color, but they’re not racist. White females voted for him because he makes the hamster spin in all the swpl types. And the little white “metrosexuals” voted for him because they wanted to remain in their circle of friends. Oh yeah, and a lot of ME oil money didn’t hurt either. OT: now, emails out showing all levels of national security apparatus made aware of the nature of the attack in Benghazi. The partially redacted copies are up at gretawire.com, at least that’s where I saw them. So I’m wondering now if it was deliberate or incompetence that led to this loss of personnel and property. This administration is so pathetic and so are the TWANLOC (hat tip to that one guy who says that all the time here, sry can’t remember exactly).
Charles @45 – You have more faith in Romney’s ability to deal with Harry Reed than I do. He will likely still be majority leader in the Senate and even if he is not will have more than enough votes to obstruct anything and everything. I am not sure Romney has the stones or the convictions to deal with Harry. This is the spiritual godfather of Obamacare after all. There is no doubt he is better than the alternative but the slow road to socialism and the fast road both end up in the same place. I don’t think we should kid ourselves about who we are electing. Mitt is not Ronald Reagan. He is the Republican Party establishment’s candidate.
PS – I have great confidence in the Left’s ability to block any technology that would lead to energy independence. There is probably nothing these internationalists fear more than the prospect of the USA not being dependent on Hugo Chavez or some crazy Mullah in Persia.
83. Rifle308
I think that if we want to give the entire world a good standard of living
…….
The simplest way to improve the standard of living for the whole planet is to lower the price of energy and water.
I tried to edit my prior post but it didn’t work. Instead of “all” I should have used “many” pertaining to national security levels. I have a few more thoughts as well. The timing of the release of these emails is a total October surprise. Who released them? Did Billary fall on a rubber sword? Were these held back from the WH. Doesn’t seem likely as there are a lot of addresses. It just seems so totally incompetent that the WH would peddle the YouTube story knowing these were out there. Misplaced trust? Utter arrogance? Complete stupidity? A combination of some or all of that? It’s enough to give one vertigo. I’m just a civilian but if any of you worldly, national security types would weigh in on this I think it would make a fascinating discussion.
87. Ashen
Saw Greta tonight and she was appoplectic. I’ve BEEN appoplectic. 26 years in the Navy made reaction to the Bengazi situation as easy as a tap on the knee.
If TeH Won didn’t have the balls to kill anyone, 10 F-18s at .99 mach and about 20 feet off the deck would have shut down the attack. If he did have the cajones, a quad of A-10s in strafing runs would have quenched the maggots bloodlust and evoked a quick trip back to a warm rack – or a cold grave. We seem to still have to esplain to the President: “We are Americans, Dammit, not the Bedouin scum you like to bow down to.”
The TRUTH? The President let our guys die.
And then got some shut-eye for his fundraiser in Las Vegas.
Straight up.
I’m still proud to be an American even though our leader fails in the basic test: “Lead, follow, or get the HELL out of the way!”
89. Charles
Agree. I’d add a sense of responsibility, strong work ethic, personal pride and a good dose of Charity to our fellow man.
http://p.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/oct/22/the-real-reason-behind-benghazigate/#.UIdhzDA7ZuQ.twitter
This breaking news buttresses my contention that Bengazigate incorporates an Iranian counter op — via cut outs — with the explicit purpose of interdicting Libya to Turkey to Syria arms deliveries.
And in other news, Iraq is apparently working hand and glove with Tehran to transfer massive amounts of bot arms AND al Quds troops.
This assertion comes from the Iraqi Vice President. (!)
check out his VERY INTERESTING item
White House Was Told Benghazi was a Terrorist Attack Two Hours Into the Battle
http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/10/23/white-house-was-told-benghazi-was-a-terrorist-attack-two-hours-into-the-battle/?singlepage=true
Don Rodrigo: Race trumps everything with the blacks. Check out this poll (August of this year).
http://www.mediaite.com/online/romney-has-zero-percent-support-from-african-americans-in-new-nbcwsj-poll/
ZERO black voters will cross the color line. Which means they’re more race-conscious by far than white voters Ever were, even in the old days. Now, some of that’s understandable, but come on, man: ZERO PERCENT? can we say, ever, that blacks can be racists, too?
I know that the marvelous Barbara from Harlem, who deserves a medal of valor for bucking the tide, is capable of seeing past the skin. So is Alfonzo Rachel, of ZoNation fame (check him out on Youtube; he’s hilarious). And there are others, like Allen West and Mia Love. Maybe these brave freethinkers will start a new movement, or at least make it Possible for Some blacks to think outside the color box.
I don’t mean to be mean, but the facts are the facts, alas. Of course, they’re not the only ones who can’t see the facts when they’re written in letters three feet high and shoved under their noses — some people in my own family fit that description — but it is mighty discouraging to see a whole tribe go that way.
For those who are not atomic chemists:
‘Hot Atoms’ and ‘Hot Fluorine’ refer exclusively to the recoiled atoms consequent to the atomic fission of UF4 — Uranium tetrafluoride. ( with variations for Oxygenated reactive complexes — which last for but moments in time )
In a so-called Thorium reactor — U233 is the fissioning / energy releasing nuclei.
The molten salts consist of a stew of Thorium and Uranium fluorides, chlorides and oxides — depending on the ‘chef.’
There are no Thorium reactors that stay away from these bonding elements — molten metals have never been proposed.
Energy transfer requires at least some fluid motion — and I have yet to see a scheme that avoids the destructive effects of ‘Hot Atoms.’
When a Uranium nucleus fissions the energy release is transmitted promptly to the rest of the molecule — and thereafter by scattering collisions.
The recoil energy imparted to previously bound Fluorine is 2×10^4 times as strong as the strongest ordinary chemical bond. (!) Hence, any fissioning Uranium atom proximate to the containment materials rips the hell out of any solid structure — ion by ion. While any single atom is trivial — the cumulative bombardment by ions able to sunder 50,000 chemical bonds ( at four per fission ) is ultimately enough to turn the strongest materials known to science into dust. And all too quickly, too.
In conventional schemes that destruction is mostly confined to the fuel rod pellets. They’re pulled, cooled, and ultimately expended from the operating system.
In all of the old, classic Thorium schemes the pool of molten salt was one big pellet.
Meaning, in the ultimate, that the ENTIRE reactor picked up the design limits of a fuel pellet — although at a larger scale.
Attempts were made to ‘skin’ the interior of the reactor puddle — which never panned out.
Hence, my contention that the molten salt idea is a dead end because of materials failure.
—————-
The old, classic fusion schemes had the same problem — this time it was wildly energetic ‘Hot Neutrons.’ ( these also exist in fission reactors — but were eclipsed by the troubles with hot fluorine and hot chlorine, etc. )
Whereas Hot Atoms disrupt 50,000 chemical bonds a typical Hot Neutron would be expected to blast 1,000,000 chemical bonds — per Neutron! Even if Lithium actually could stop most of them, enough would get through to ruin a containment that’d have to stay perfect. We can’t build perfect: no design margin at all.
Because they have no electric charge — these neutrons would be a perfect universal solvent that truly CAN’T be held back by ANYTHING. Period, stop.
The only hope was that some zany scheme of Lithium entrapment would get’er done.
Because of utter failure before sustained neutron emissions ever occurred, this engineering nightmare was, and remains, unaddressed.
ALL of the fusion projects have, in fact, been weapons research gambits conducted in full public view — because the prospects of success were, and remain, so dim.
In the meantime, they function as a jobs program for nerds — with no general public utility whatsoever.
We wouldn’t want it if it DID work — in fact — especially so.
ANY scheme that is a net generator of a massive flux of cheap neutrons would blow the doors open to weapons proliferation so great humanity could not survive.
Humanity would be way, way beyond the Three Conjectures nightmare.
———
For the same reason, schemes which meld fission and fusion are complete design folly.
( Yes, some brainiacs forty-years ago suggested using fusion driven injection of neutrons into a quasi-conventional fission reactor. It would have the worst features of both designs, of course. But, this is the kind of design folly that the public purse is sought to support. Again, it was a jobs program for nerds. )
Dear Choom & Mooch.
Hoping you enjoy your upcoming
vacationvocation.Please “forward” my alohas to Magnum & Mr. Higgins.
They really are decent neighbors…Not bad for a couple bitterly clinging haoles.
Mahalo, monkeyfan
P.S. Remember, nowadays aloha means both hello and goodbye.
To my mind, this was, by far, Romey’s strongest debate, a debate in which his iron discipline was nothing short of amazing. What Romney planned — and succeeded in doing, was simple but difficult: 1. Appear presidential and unruffled at all times; 2,To appear — and to be, affable and warm hearted; and, 3, to never go after Obama in a vicious or mean-spirited way, even if it meant losing the opportunity to make Obama look the dunce he is. In the three debates Romney seemed to be a decent man concerned with the welfare of others, a safe pair of hands, and a man who could step into the presidency naturally — and with grace. By accomplishing these things Romney completely vitiated the effect of 200 million dollars of Obama’s ads which attempted to demonize him.
When we turn to Obama, we turn from discipline to self-indulgence. This is the middle of October, and yet Obama is still playing to the least attractive elements of his base: snarking, grimacing, showing no respect to either his opponent — nor to over 60% of the citizenry, and blatantly lying in the assurance that the media would cover his back. The icing on the cake: he appeared to be nasty, small minded, not in control — and DESPERATE. The last being the worst thing a President or candidate for President can do.
And there are two horrible shocks waiting for Obama. The first: the media, their tame pollsters, and other creatures from the bowels of D.C. now know that Romney is a favorite to become President, and so they will no longer
obsessively shill for Obama {Look at how decent and fair Bob Schieffer, one of the most left wing journalists in D.C., was as a debate moderator. Does this mean that the media will not be biased in future? No, of course not], will no longer upbraid Romney for imaginary gaffes, this because they want to have access to the new Administration, because access is their bread and butter (their own biases simply being their jam. The second shock has not come yet; to whit: he threw the Intelligence community under the bus with an alacrity at odds with his usual torpid bouts of indecision. But perhaps today’s story that the White House received an e-mail 2 hours after the assault on the Consulate in Benghazi began, saying that a Jihadist group had already claimed credit for the attack, or another report today saying the U.S. drone which monitored the attack was a predator drone, hence an armed drone which could have wreaked mayhem on some of the attackers, are simply hors d’oeuvres cooked by the chefs at Langley or Fort Meade.
parchellan
95. beverly
Don Rodrigo: Race trumps everything with the blacks. Check out this poll (August of this year).
http://www.mediaite.com/online/romney-has-zero-percent-support-from-african-americans-in-new-nbcwsj-poll/
ZERO black voters will cross the color line.
,,,,,,,,,,,,
Black pastors all across the country are not going for Obama’s pro homosexual stance. They’ll tell their congregations as much. These congregations won’t vote for Romney. rather what they’ll do is not vote.
All the media hysteria, Red vs Blue, etc aside, what I notice are the simple things. Or rather, a lack of them. No budget and no plan…. you can’t even run a household properly without those, how do you run a country?
“[M]any GM workers in Defiance, Michigan (sic) are voting for Obama — even though some hate everything he culturally stands for,..”
Like the GM worker, I am of two minds on this election:
1.) It is a squeaker (R+1/D+1) and the status quo is precariously maintained for one more election cycle.
2.) It is a blowout (R>5). The McGovern-Democrat coalition is destroyed and the political landscape remade.
In the latter scenario, Democrats rupture and the anarchist-Green faction leaves the party. Blacks temporarily become politically homeless. The rump Democrat centrist faction caucuses with RINO Republicans. Tea party Republicans and Greens redefine political boundaries but Democrat centrists/RINOs administer the political machine.
Romney would be in his natural element in Scenario #2 and easily win a second term of office. The knock-on effects of Supreme Court appointments would reverberate for a generation.
Democrats are playing for Scenario #1–keep the game close; Republicans need to manufacture scenario #2. A blow-out can be achieved by some political powerhouse (e.g., NRA) using all its political muscle to convince blue collar/union voters in PENNSYLVANIA, MICHIGAN or OHIO to side with “pro-gun” Republicans. Tipping any ONE of these states would allow Wayne LaPierre or Chris Cox to hand-pick the next Supreme Court Justice.
Rifle308 @ 83 said:
“Eggplant I share your hopes for fusion propulsion for spaceships. I will only watch the spaceship scenes in 2001: A Space Odyssey, and wonder at what could still be. A moonbase is still possible and perhaps the “Nerva” (If I remember the name right.) nuclear rocket propulsion concept will work for getting to the asteroids and beyond. I think that if we want to give the entire world a good standard of living we will need the resources of the solar system.”
First: Thank you for your service.
Responding to your comment: The scene of the spacecraft “Discovery” flying-by in “2001″ is for me a visual treat. I can watch it over and over again. “2001″ was an excellent SF movie mainly because Arthur C. Clarke and a bunch of NASA engineers were consulted while the movie was being made. The design of Discovery had a significant flaw in that it had no cooling fins. Rejecting waste heat is Problem #1 for any nuclear powered spacecraft. Arthur C. Clarke and the NASA engineers would have known this. I guess they removed the fins because the vehicle would have looked less “cool”.
I completely hate the anti-American politics in the move “Avatar” but the spacecraft “Venture Star” in “Avatar” is easily the coolest spacecraft ever depicted by Hollywood, refer to:
http://james-camerons-avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Interstellar_Vehicle_Venture_Star
That flyby scene of the Venture Star as it approached the moon Pandora was a visual orgasm. James Cameron (who is an a$$hole) went to the effort of hiring bright guys to provide him with good information about the spacecraft and aircraft shown in “Avatar”. As much as I dislike Cameron for his politics and morality, it is difficult not to respect the man for his craftsmanship in his movies and what he has done for deep sea exploration. His “Deepsea Challenger” submersible was a very interesting design and his exploration of the Mariana Trench showed great courage.
On the subject of SF movies, I’m currently pulling my hair out over the movie “Prometheus”. I just bought the Blu-Ray and have been reviewing that movie. That movie held such promise but was badly bungled by poor script writing and incredibly bad editing. I suspect that Ridley Scott has senility issues and should be spending more time playing with his grandchildren and not wasting investor’s movie on SF movies. “Prometheus” could easily have been in the same league as “2001″, “Blade Runner” or “Alien”. The idiotic stream-of-consciousness script and brain damaged editing ruined what should have been a classic SF movie. In it’s current state, “Prometheus” can only be watched as a special effects flick with no effort made in trying to understand the incomprehensible story. What a disappointment!!
Eggplant @102
Thanks for the kind reply.
Spaceships, aircraft, firearms, history, subjects I could talk about for hours if allowed, I share your enthusiasm for good SF movies. A friend from church here at Ft Hood and I will sometimes shoot the moon at the food court after the church service about SF TV/movies (and Military ones as well) our current favorite topic is how Stargate SG-1 and Atlantis could have been saved/improved and how the franchise might have been reborn as an anthology series….
I am resisting temptation to start an off topic thread here on SF spaceships and movies, perhaps another time.
Take Care,
Rifle308
P.S. Eggplant, have you ever heard of or seen the “Terran Trade Authority” books?
Rifle308
Eggplant…
IIRC, A.C. Clarke’s Discovery 1 used a NERVA variant that use NH3, ammonia, as the propellant. (!) This assumption/ design scheme revolved around the need to have storable hydrogen, in a non-cryogenic manner.
The ranked bodies, tripled around the axis of Discovery, were ammonia tanks. (They should have been spheres.)
The distance between the living quarters and the rear, combined with the obstruction provided by the tankage, was supposed to reduce radiation to practical levels.
The need for hydrogen storage turned on the assumption that the space vessel would wait for months on end in deep interplanetary space. Then, it would power up and return.
Ammonia, with three atoms of hydrogen, beats out methane and water, in Clarke’s scheme.
Super heated methane would be prone to leaving char. Super heated water is, in fact, very aggressive when the molecule busts into hydroxyl and atomic hydrogen.
Ammonia would, in contrast, neatly pop into diatomic nitrogen and diatomic hydrogen. The weight penalty and of diatomic nitrogen as a propellant was balanced against its practicality.
No energy radiating / black body arrays were deemed necessary with a NERVA rocket.
And, as in the classic test-bed NERVA rocket, the hydrogen, bound to nitrogen, would double as a moderator for the fission engine. Thusly, it would not have runaway dynamics such as found in a carbon moderated scheme. ( And another reason to stay away from methane.)
Glad to clear that up for you.
Rifle308,
We’re way off topic and this thread has almost expired. I own almost all of the “Stargate SG-1″ DVDs and watched them multiple times. “Stargate” seriously “jumped the shark” after the Goa’uld were defeated and Richard Dean Anderson left the series. I’ve been tempted by the “Atlantis” series but the dismal death of SG-1 sort of left a bad taste in my mouth.
I have not heard of the “Terran Trade Authority” books but now feel inclined to look into them given your suggestion. I have an extensive science fiction collection. In my very humble opinion, good authors are:
Jack Vance
Joe Haldeman
Robert Silverberg
Larry Niven
Alexi Panshin
Harry Harrison
Jack L. Chalker
Frederik Pohl
Unfortunately many of the above authors are either dead or have lost it due to old age. I’m currently rereading Frederik Pohl’s “Heechee” (Gateway) series. If you can only read two novels, I recommend Larry Niven’s “Ringworld” and Frank Herbert’s “Dune”. Be aware that “Dune” was Herbert’s only good novel (avoid the others).
blert @ 105,
I believe (not sure) that Discovery in Arthur C. Clarke’s novel “2001″ used a plasma propulsion system. A plasma propulsion system would have required a Brayton cycle power system and a cooling fin to radiate away the waste heat. This may not contradict your above comment because the “2001″ movie version of Discovery looked like it used the propulsion system that you described.
The Discovery was an awesome design. I think I may use it as a screen saver on one of my computers.
The following is a spacecraft concept that I quite like:
http://galaxywire.net/tag/pat-rawlings/
Blast @ 69 – Imagine the surprise the terrorists would have had if a Navy destroyer offshore had laid down a barrage of BLERT rounds in real time, guided by targeting info from the Predator drone overhead!
The destroyers were there. The BLERT round is under development http://tinyurl.com/c62c2vk
Watch a modern 5″/62 in action on YouTube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpXjshw_eT8
And those rounds are much quicker on target than an F/A-18 and cannot be shot down!