Foreign Policy’s Cable reports that “the State Department has begun coordinating with Syria’s neighbors to prepare for the handling of President Bashar al-Assad’s extensive weapons of mass destruction if and when his regime collapses, The Cable has learned.”
This week, the State Department sent a diplomatic demarche to Syria’s neighbors Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon, and Saudi Arabia, warning them about the possibility of Syria’s WMDs crossing their borders and offering U.S. government help in dealing with the problem, three Obama administration officials confirmed to The Cable. For concerned parties both inside and outside the U.S. government, the demarche signifies that the United States is increasingly developing plans to deal with the dangers of a post-Assad Syria — while simultaneously highlighting the lack of planning for how to directly bring about Assad’s downfall. …
The State Department declined to provide access to any officials to discuss the private diplomatic communication on the record, such as the author of the demarche Assistant Secretary of State for International Security and Nonproliferation Tom Countryman. In a meeting with reporters earlier this year, Countryman expressed confidence that the United States knows where Syria’s WMD stockpiles are, but warned that they could become a very serious security issue for Syria and the region going forward.
Advertisement“We have ideas as to the quantity and we have ideas as to where they are,” Countryman said. “We wish some of the neighbors of Syria to be on the lookout… When you get a change of regime in Syria, it matters what are the conditions — chaotic or orderly.”
The acknowledgement of the existence of WMDs in Syria may rewrite history’s understanding of the invasion of Iraq in 2003. For the present, however, the Cable report raises the question of what sort of “plans” the administration could be developing for dealing with Syria? What is to prevent such weapons from migrating to Iraq for example? Surely not the forces which the administration has withdrawn?
The main problem with Iraq 2003, it may now turn out, was how the Bush administration dealt with the WMD threat and not over whether they existed. The vilification of the Iraq operation may have been over a fundamental a violation of the international diplomatic consensus rather than the “mistake” over the presence of WMDs.
The proper way to deal with WMD threats has now been revealed as including the use of pariahs, like Israel, maneuvers in the Security Council, or whatever unnamed diplomatic plans Hillary Clinton is hatching. Force is not disallowed, as long as it is applied by those who are already outside the pale. Readers will recall Operation Orchard in late 2007, when Israeli strike aircraft hit a “nuclear” target in the Syrian desert.
Operation Orchard was an Israeli airstrike on a nuclear reactor in the Deir ez-Zor region of Syria carried out just after midnight (local time) on September 6, 2007. The White House and Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) later confirmed that American intelligence had also indicated the site was a nuclear facility with a military purpose, though Syria denies this. An International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) investigation reported evidence of uranium and graphite and concluded that the site bore features resembling an undeclared nuclear reactor. IAEA was initially unable to confirm or deny the nature of the site because, according to IAEA, Syria failed to provide necessary cooperation with the IAEA investigation Syria has disputed these claims. In April 2011, the IAEA officially confirmed that the site was a nuclear reactor.
There was remarkably little outcry over that. Because that’s the way to do it. Western diplomats don’t mind getting the despised Jew to do the dirty work. They can always blame him afterward from their high moral perch. Otherwise they can lead from behind, through organizations like the “Friends of Syria”, which is a way of negotiating regime change, or perhaps effecting it, in a multilateral way.
Representatives of more than 60 nations and organizations called on Syria’s government on Friday to halt its attacks on besieged cities and asked the United Nations to begin planning for a peacekeeping force, even as prospects for a diplomatic way out of the conflict appeared dim. …
The international meeting — a gathering of what was called the “friends of the Syrian people” — was intended to demonstrate international solidarity against the government of President Bashar al-Assad and his close allies, namely Russia and China, which faced blistering criticism from Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton and other attendees.
This might also explain the curious lack of opposition to notions that Israel should carry out an attack on Iranian nuclear facilities which were developed in secret through ‘deceit’ as leaked telexes now show. Force is not disallowed as long as the hitmen from Tel Aviv do it. To get the Americans involved, well the Five Families — or whatever the diplomats call the ruling diplomatic coalition — don’t sanction that stuff.
From the very beginning the Bush Administration’s operation against Saddam Hussein was also a declaration of war — or independence, depending on your preference — against the system.
Bush may have calculated that the September 11, 2001 attacks had finally given him a free hand to deal with long-festering threats in the most expeditious way. But he was probably wrong. The system bent, but never broke. Ultimately it destroyed him and was probably relieved to see the accession of Barack Obama, who seems determined to play the traditional Game demanded by the mustache Petes to the end.
But both the Arab Spring and the Iranian nuclear question suggest that the international diplomatic consensus doesn’t work; it is only making the problems of the region worse. Unless the diplomatic system can avert the increasing march towards a regional civil war and the nuclearlization of the region, then a catastrophe looms which will make the hostilities in Iraq seem like a kindergarten party. It may overtake not only the Middle East, but the whole of the Mediterranean and the Caucasus.
Let us see how history judges Barack Obama. One thing’s for sure. If he can’t stop the march of the region towards conflict, then future generations will wonder whether the didn’t sell out a generation in exchange for a message of potage. History has, however, already judged one of his most famous publicists very harshly. Perhaps the idea Hope and Change is still credited by some, but its posters are clearly plagiarized.
The creator of the Barack Obama ‘HOPE’ poster has pleaded guilty to criminal contempt for lying about the photo he used to create the image.
Shepard Fairey said he made a ‘terrible decision’ in 2009 to destroy some documents and fabricate others in a lawsuit about an Associated Press photograph he relied upon to make the poster.
Fairey entered the plea in federal court to the misdemeanor charge, which carries a maximum potential penalty of up to six months in prison.
The Daily Caller‘s Jim Treacher wrote “what a perfect symbol of the Obama era.” But that is unfair. It would be more accurate to say that Fairey’s fall is symbolic of an era, a time when spin could cover for fact.
How to Publish on Amazon’s Kindle for $2.99
The Three Conjectures at Amazon Kindle for $1.99
Storming the Castle at Amazon Kindle for $3.99
No Way In at Amazon Kindle $3.99, print $9.99
“… Russia and China, which faced blistering criticism from Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton …”
Blistering? Poor Putin will probably not be able to sleep after a scolding from the harridan. Still, if Hillary! did her “blistering” in Russian, it would probably come out meaning something else altogether, just like her mistranslated “Reset” button.
Bush may have calculated that the September 11, 2001 attacks had finally given him a free hand to deal with long-festering threats in the most expeditious way. But he was probably wrong. The system never broke. In the end it destroyed him and was probably relieved to see the accession of Barack Obama, who seems determined to play the traditional Game to the end.
While you reify the system more than I would, I want to defend Bush on this one point, I think he knew it would destroy him, perhaps he hoped it would not but it was a thin hope, and he moved forward in full expectation that it would martyr him. If anything, he has already faired better than I think he expected. I thought so from his first speeches after 9/11, and count it as the bravest personal move I can recall in my lifetime by a public official.
–
On the WMDs, until and unless we find the actual Iraqi weapons rumored burried in the Bekka Valley, I don’t think it will totally rewrite the Iraqi invasion – which was never really about WMD in the first place, though it would have made a convenient excuse if found.
But I want to address your point about the approved trilateral (whatever) way to do things, is to let some proxy do it, the UN or the Jews or whatever. What I wonder about is – Hillary. I would not have thought such subterfuge her style. Perhaps I was wrong. Perhaps given the chance it become her style. Or perhaps she has been captured and turned by the US State Department apparat, and/or the globalist gnomes or whatever, or even replaced by a double or gynroid sufficiently balky to wear the wrong colored outfit to a group photo.
Obambus? I dunno, he bows to stuff, or blows it up with drones. Subtlety seems not to be in his repertoire. Ignoring a problem is, letting whatever secondary or tertiary forces do whatever they want. So if the US is doing anything, I wonder about Hildabeast.
Representatives of more than 60 nations
The bar and hooker tab must have been lethal.
Assad is accused of not safeguarding the WMD Saddam was absolved of sending him. Robert Heinlein referred to a decision as being as jug headed as Teapot Dome where Secretary Fall was convicted of accepting a bribe the other party was absolved of offering.
This guy’s going to create a huge freakin’ mess all over the planet then pull a Bay of Pigs and hide under his desk. The teleprompter will be where Monica was.
The acknowledgement of the existence of WMDs in Syria may rewrite history’s understanding of the invasion of Iraq in 2003. …………. What is to prevent such weapons from migrating to Iraq for example?
I have a clear memory of reports, in the days just before (or perhaps on day 1) the invasion of Iraqi, which claimed that WMD’s where being shipped across the border, one report even said they were then being buried there!
With your resources you may be able to locate such reports.
If the allegations where correct, will not the new migration of the WMD back to Iraq merely be returning them to their rightful owner?
Wretchard, to quote the immortal Travis Tritt, even if several of the rusting chemical warheads in Syria turn out to be stamped “Made in Iraq, shipped Dec. 2002″ in Arabic — after thousands of dead Americans and tens of thousands of dead Iraqis, “here’s a quarter, call someone who cares.”
I offer for the consideration of BC-ers the works of the late science fiction author Keith Laumer. Specifically, his “Galactic Diplomat” series. Laumer himself was part of the Foreign Service in the 1950′s and 60′s; and his books humorously and with great authenticity laid out the faults and incompetence of our State Department of the time.
This bears on the situation with Iraqi and Syrian WMD’s because there is a parallel between the State Department of today and the diplomats of Laumer’s novels. The superiors of his protagonist, “James Retief”; are described accurately by reviewers as “protocol-obsessed, petty, small-minded, arrogant, ignorant, cowardly, and notoriously corrupt”. This is an improvement on the current State Department which also has as a primary goal the avoidance of reality in favor of a totally fictional world view that not surprisingly benefits themselves.
To the State Department, and the media/political machine of the Left, any Syrian WMD’s or former Iraqi WMD’s under Syrian control in the Bekaa Valley do not really exist, and will not exist publicly unless either they are used in such a way as cannot be denied, or if some way can be found to blame their existence, concealment, and use on Bush. The Narrative and the political images it creates are far more important than any inconvenient reality or the casualties it creates.
There is a parallel, which I am sure Wretchard intended, between Shepard Fairey and Israel. Fairey probably believed that his service to “Teh Won” meant that he was immune from legal process. He forgot that he had already rendered the service and was not likely to be of further use to “Teh Won” since the next Obama campaign will not center around either “Hope” or “Change”. In fact, for what is to come, Fairey is a reminder for the self-identifying rubes that they have been had. So it is to Obama’s benefit that he go under the bus.
Israel may well need to do the dirty job of dealing with Iranian, Syrian, Muslim Brotherhood, HAMAS, Hezbollah, or other Islamist-loving State Department flavor of the month WMD’s purely in self defense. But they should not expect that it is with the approval of the US government no matter what assurances they are given, or that such act will gain them any advantage or approval by the US government. Indeed, their planning should explicitly allow for being attacked [diplomatically, commercially, or militarily] by the US for doing the deed.
When dealing with Western Governments, no good deed goes unpunished.
Subotai Bahadur
W. said “Unless the diplomatic system can avert the increasing march towards a regional civil war and the nuclearlization of the region, then a catastrophe looms ….”
I think the wheels are in track to do just that, diplomacy notwithstanding. Islam’s seeds of destruction are germinating and the maturity of the cult is at hand. Inshallah. Aint nothing we can do to stop it. For our own protection we must do all things necessary to contain it, however.
The result of the Three Conjectures is the potential obliteration of islam. same result, different process, perhaps.
How was Bush destroyed, he was re-elected wasn’t he?
His three main errors, however (IMO):
1. not formally declaring war against the state sponsors of 9/11
2. not prosecuting the counter attack as an actual war; i.e. flattening Bagdhad, etc
3. not communicating his reasons for the WOT to the American people and defending them vigorously
There was just some kind of martyr complex with the guy, maybe. Something definitely off.
Subotai #7:
Your mention of the Retief stories caused me to lean back in my government issue Hip-u-Matic chair and burn out the motor as I braced my leg against my desk to prevent rotation. I assume you will have a check in the mail so I can effect repairs?
It is well that I did not revisit the Retief stories when I was at the Pentagon, since I would have had an even harder problem taking seriously the State Dept people I had to deal with on occasion. The fact that the diplomatic service has invented the concept of a “non-paper” says it all. An official, staffed paper that the Secretary can deny all knowledge of and claim it was the work of a lunatic after-hours cleaning crew who got hold of official stationary, or some such – well, what kind of people would use such a deliberately transparent artifice?
John Bolton, the only reasonable diplomat I know of, and one who was summarily dismissed for that very reason, says the situation in Syria is more fraught than that of the Libyan Uprising. The actors in Syria appear to be more varied an often even less attractive than those in Libya, with Al Queda fighting on “our” side.
I wonder though, if the fear is that the WMDs will get seized by someone and actually used rather than simply covered up. If they get employed by the newly resurgent Al Queda in Iraq against the Shia, well that would look very bad indeed for the present Administration, wouldn’t it? The Bush Lied nonexistent WMDs get employed to help Obama snatch defeat in Iraq from the jaws of victory.
In the Retief stories the hidebound diplomats would inevitably bow to the inevitable when the hero managed to foil the Groaci or Hatracken’s vicious plot. Oh, would it be that we had diplomats half as capable…
My guess is that the whole system is geared towards preserving itself instead of actually solving any problems. It’s like a teacher’s union, except that it’s a diplomat’s union. The money is in making the deal, not in creating a solution. So the emphasis is on deals, whatever the deals do.
You can have endless deals without ever reaching a solution because it’s lifetime employment for those in the loop. Just as education is all about classes and not necessarily with outcomes, so too might diplomacy be fundamentally unconnected to “peace in the Middle East.”
The “nuclearization of the region” so feared by Fernandez could be avoided by the US forcing Israel to dismantle the catalyst thereof.
Yeah, in the dreams, only, of actual conservative patriots, like, say, Michael Scheuer.
cjm @ 9: How was Bush destroyed, he was re-elected wasn’t he?
And for exactly the reasons discussed here, the Democrats didn’t want to own the war. But they didn’t let Bush do anything else, and after a while he stopped trying.
I agree with you on the “errors”, we should have pounded Baghdad until the few survivors came out with a white flag. Fallujah should have been entirely leveled without warning. Etc. Some of that was Bush’s own charity, some was trying to be nice for the Democrats and Euros and Saudis, some was piss-poor advice by the joint chiefs. If we had done this, the whole thing might have been over by 2005, with fewer total casualties on both sides, and especially on ours.
Proposition: there would be more conflict in the Middle East, at least in the short term, without the Jews to kick around. In fact, if there were no Israel the Arab states would positively pay to create its equivalent.
Why? Because it’s a boogeyman without any relevance to an individual dictator’s hold on power. A convenient excuse for all the failures, hunger and frustration of the region. The next best thing to Israel is America, which likewise is to blame for everything.
No bread in the markets? “The Jew!”. Feel like killing 2,000 people in Manhattan? “The Jew!” Who did the WTC? “The Jew!” Now the Jews might be guilty of a lot of things, but they’re not guilty of what the General Admiral Aladeens of the Middle East blame them for.
The ultimate proof is in region’s reaction to Iran. They actually fear the Shi’ite bomb in ways that they never feared the Jewish bomb, any more than they feared the American bomb. The Sunnis are going to arm if Teheran gets nukes. They never ever felt threatened by the Israeli bombs.
When you come right down to it, we don’t fear nuclear weapons. We fear what regimes might do with them. New Zealand has the technological capability to build a bomb. They could probably do it in a few months. Japan could probably do it in 5 minutes, with a “Hello Kitty” sticker on it too. When was the last time anybody worried about a Kiwi nuke?
I don’t think the Arab states ever worried they would be nuked by Israel.
In fact, the regional powers tacitly approved of the Israeli bombing of Syria’s facilities, because Syria was viewed as Iran’s proxy. And they have made it pretty clear they would be happy to see Israel bomb Iran. The only thing the Muslim world has ever been afraid of is a bomb in the hands of another rival Muslim group.
Actions speak louder than words.
Moreover, it is quite clear that the Jews are just another minority in the Middle East. Saddam gassed the Kurds. The Egyptians are ethnically cleansing the Copts. Syria is about sectarian conflict. Homs is what, 500x worse than anything the Jews have ever done the Palestinians. Where’s the outcry? There’s none in the Western Left. None, because it’s only wogs killing wogs.
The problem with the Jews, if there is any problem at all, is that they have their own state. The unideal minority. A bad example to the Kurds, the Druze, the local Christians, whoever.
Proposition: if Israel sank into the sea tomorrow all the conflicts in the region would still be going full-bore. The whole damn definition of Israel as the “key problem” in the Middle East is largely a fraud. It’s a symptom, not a cause.
But to take things a step further, one could argue that the even the manias of the region are a secondary issue. The real issue is that the West has found an accomodation with this craziness. It is part of business as usual. So they keep these myths going, as if they were true, even if any damn fool can see that the Palestinian Authority is nothing more than a group of gangs. The myth is true because the myth is lucrative.
That’s not to say that Israel is perfect, or even good. But it is irrelevant; it’s all about the money. And the money is in the fiction. And that fiction is about to be shredded by reality. Spin is about to give way to facts. And nobody will like that.
Josh @ 2 said:
“… I want to defend Bush on this one point, I think he knew it would destroy him, perhaps he hoped it would not but it was a thin hope, and he moved forward in full expectation that it would martyr him. If anything, he has already faired better than I think he expected. I thought so from his first speeches after 9/11, and count it as the bravest personal move I can recall in my lifetime by a public official.”
I remember that speech. I wish I could link it. I was ambiguous in my opinion about George W. Bush before he gave that speech. After I heard it, I knew he was a patriot, an honorable man and the right person to be President. I take enormous pride in having voted for George W. Bush and would do so again. He is in the same league as Harry S. Truman.
cjm @ 9 said:
“How was Bush destroyed, he was re-elected wasn’t he?”
Only because Bush ran against John Kerry. Kerry lost because of his own incompetence coupled with arrogance, General David Petraeus success in Iraq and the success of the Swift Boat patriots in reminding the American public of Kerry’s earlier misconduct in Vietnam. I would argue that Petraeus relationship with Bush’s reelection in 2004 was similar the William T. Sherman’s relationship with Lincoln’s reelection. It’s interesting that if Lincoln had failed to be reelected then the incompetent George B. McClellan would have become President. McClellan would have surely negotiated an armistice with the Confederacy which would have left the United States crippled and unable to achieve its destiny as a super power. Likewise, John Kerry would have ordered a pell-mell retreat from Iraq, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory and insuring a repeat of the Vietnam debacle.
An unfortunate amount of America’s success seems to be due to patriots winning out over moonbats through some process of blind luck. On the subject of moonbats versus patriots, the following link concerning Iran’s nuclear weapon’s program is of interest:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/25/world/middleeast/us-agencies-see-no-move-by-iran-to-build-a-bomb.html?_r=1&hp
The New York Times and the usual suspects within the intelligence community are up to their old tricks. I guess a couple major cities will need to be cratered before people realize these guys are liars and moonbats.
How they cowered in the bushes
Hidden deep inside the shade
Of the overhanging branches
Both bedeviled and afraid
We must all hang tough together
Said the nation’s foremost mind
We shall lead you all to safety
From positions far behind
Then a small voice from the benches
With a quiver said, “I think
That if we send him a letter
Of displeasure then he’ll blink.”
Then the sky began to darken
As they flew in, newly loosed
From the bushes cries of horror
“It’s the chickens, home to roost!”
W @ 14: “The whole damn definition of Israel as the “key problem” in the Middle East is largely a fraud. It’s a symptom, not a cause.”
Amen to that. Let’s not forget about one of the other valuable services provided by the existence of Israel — criticizing the Little Satan gives EUrotrash another way to display their powerless contempt for the Great Satan.
Ah well! At least Obambi’s feckless cut-backs in the US military mean that EUnuchs will soon be able to see the demilitarized Europe they have longed for. Hope they get to enjoy it for more than a few weeks.
We’re in the position today of those who knew what was coming in pre-September 1939, with the summer of 1914 thrown in for good measure–all of it coming toward us as fast as it can.
Idiots, scoundrels, and their ilk were in office in those times (the Kaiser coming back from his Norwegian cruise and yelling at Moltke the Younger on the train platform, “You ordered the what!?”–whether true or not, it makes a good scene. Dumb and Dumber in charge of the of the most important country in Europe–and the real ‘Ras’putin running Russia–wow, what a line-up. At least the general had to the sense to tell Willy the war was lost when they failed to take Paris a few months later. Of course, Willy didn’t have the sense to listen to him.) The State Department has been clueless since at least then, Woodrow Wilson’s day.
The difference is, we who have an idea of what is coming have the Internet to talk to one another about it. That really is a HUGE comfort–and I am deeply thankful for it. It is good to know that sound you heard really was a gun.
Wretchard writes, “When you come right down to it, we don’t fear nuclear weapons. We fear what regimes might do with them.” Indeed. We have mini-Hitlers today who are wetting their robes to be the full-sized model, using nukes to get there. It’s what you do if you don’t have access to the Wehrmacht.
I’ll be interested to see, if I live through it, just how the world looks when we come out the other side. May I at least hope multi-culti and PC will be “martyred” in the rubble? And perhaps the Submission of the Prophet, too?
An Préachán
The acknowledgement of the existence of WMDs in Syria may rewrite history’s understanding of the invasion of Iraq in 2003. …………
Give it up. The Bush supporters justifying OIF resemble those Marxists who claim the USSR failed because it wasn’t real Marxism and that if only we could give this real stuff a try the critics would be eating their words. Indeed the current financial crisis has resulted in many of those old lefties saying “see we were right all along”. Similarly the Right invested so much in Bush/OIF/neoconservatism that they are still in denial.
I see Red China and Putin going ‘all in’ on their Shi’ite bet.
When he steps back into the presidency we should expect much, much more adventurism.
Putin views the Wan as the ‘equalizer.’ With any luck, America will be flat-lined financially by the Wan.
In that sense, both 0bama and Putin are entirely reactionary politicians: they live in a psychic bubble that’s 50 years behind the times.
Amazing the certainty that there are WMD in Syria, and that there are probably plenty of them, at least enough to cause some hand wringing, anxiety and concern. I’m sure there are WMD there and the concern is valid, given that Assad might be holding what arsenal Saddam had dumped off into Assad’s storage. What Assad had acquired minus Saddam’s stock is unknown. It can amount to lots of excess baggage when you are deciding to pack light for a one way excursion out of town.
I wonder if the case will be made of the danger of WMD, and the danger of it falling into other hands, etc, or are we all presumed to be up to speed on that one. The media is the only entity that is considered worthy of “convincing” on that one, by administration and state dept, and so therefore I’m sure it’s only merely a matter of them deciding when to start blaring it when they feel the time is “right”.
All in all, it all seems a little Ground Hog Day (postponed), as it was the previous imperative already, as what happened turns out to be the opposite, that of the media, and/or the international community’s fulfillment of the (counter-intuitive) objective as Kerry himself had planned for the region anyway, but only procured by media pressure in his honor as he wasn’t matriculated to lead or undertake it himself. WMD is still the same problem it was in 2002, and well beyond the confines of Iraq. Anyone could have told the International Nuke Commission Report that in 2006. But they knew what they were doing. Just as the right hand knows what the left hand is doing.
egg @ 15: An unfortunate amount of America’s success seems to be due to patriots winning out over moonbats through some process of blind luck.
Maybe it’s more than luck, it’s democracy working.
But past performance is not a guarantee of future profits.
a @ 12: The “nuclearization of the region” so feared by Fernandez could be avoided by the US forcing Israel to dismantle the catalyst thereof.
Yeah, you think that would stop all the nuking of their opponents that Israel has been doing for the last forty years? Oh wait a minute.
“20. blert
I see Red China and Putin going ‘all in’ on their Shi’ite bet.” Really? I mean really? What do the Shi’a have to do with anything in Moscow?
I know the pending reelection of Putin — though I do expect an almost run off if not a run off — will send many in D.C. and elsewhere into paraoxyisms of rage, if not envy that they don’t have quite as much clout as the Good Tsar, but seriously?
Russia’s only strategic interests in the Mideast are:
1) Ensuring it doesn’t become a launchpad for further mischief in the Caucuses (see Grey Wolves, Turkish nationalist org with links to Chechen jihadis documented in Plan Kavkaz and former terrorist’s ‘confessions’ about Ankara and other bank accounts for Shamil Basayev)
2) Ensuring its access to markets and the occasional naval stopover point there (though Greece could just as easily replace Tartus, it’s got lots of good ports)
3) Keeping the pot stirring so oil prices stay reasonably high
The last is by far the easiest to achieve and has been since the Brezhnev era.
It would appear in any case that the House of Ibn Saud or its diplomats already regards the conflict in Syria with their Muslim Brotherhood puppets leading the fight against the Russian-armed Assad as a proxy war. Hence the cold shoulder to Dmitry Anatolyevich’s (yes, remember him?) phone call the other day to the Saudi prince in charge of diplomacy (not the one in charge of bribing Samantha Powers/Susan Rice when they leave office for having rendered such a useful service to the Ummah of overthrowing the last secular Arab dictator).
That’s the beauty of course, of writing about Russia at BC or even at PJM — one needn’t actually supply any facts. If Michael Ledeen says Russia is ‘convulsed’ because a few thousand people protested against Putin nationwide while tens if not hundreds of thousands back Vladimir Vladimirovich on Saturdays…well who is Senor Equis to argue? Oceania has and must always remain at war with Eurasia…or is it Eastasia?
Finally there’s some hope it will be recognized that this entire war is about pulling down the “extended Warsaw Pact.” The whole system of international diplomacy is seizing up for the same reason it has seized up since Alger Hiss attended the San Francisco conference – the Soviets do not intend that it “work,” they intend that it bind Gulliver. Is it conceivable that Russia backs Syria and Iran, but does not also back the proxy armies they host and fund and arm and endorse? Absolutely nothing has changed – the dynamics are identical to the of the Cold War. What exactly needs to happen before people start talking about Russia and China as part of the same geopolitical entity, building up 3RD party and 4TH party proxies, while subverting our economy, while relying on the usual reliable idiots to stupefy the public about the calamities coming closer and closer? Or, as according to recent Intelligence Chief testimony before Congress you can watch on CSpan, are we to suppose that Russia and China confine their attack on our country to cyber-stealing $400 Billion in US intellectual property? Where’s the site where we get to talk about reality and not a bunch of confused political horseshit? Obviously Mr. X doesnt know – or perhaps he’s responsible for identifying them for his “friends.”. Cmon people. The world is not really that complicated.
12 @amspirnational
Yeah, I’m sure the lion will lay down with the lamb if Israel completely rids themselves of nuclear weapons.
And who claims Scheuer is a “conservative”? Certainly he doesn’t himself, from what I’ve heard of him.
Honestly wretch I dont know why you allow Mr. X to post on your site. You know what he is.
“Honestly wretch I dont know why you allow Mr. X to post on your site. You know what he is.” Which is far less annoying or shrill than Machias Privateer, for one. That guy sees the Kremlins under every bed, as do you.
And Wretchard’s site is likely the last one on PJM that allows commenters to ask important questions, like whether the neocons want to arm the Syrian Muslim Brotherhood to create an excuse for U.S. boots in Damascus a few years down the road. (We are talking of course, about the neocons, those people Reagan banished to the NRI/NED where at least they could cause trouble somewhere else while the grown ups negotiated with the Soviets).
Of course that sounds ludicrous, but we’re talking about folks whose grasp of reality is rather weak and who unlike entrepreneurs or soldiers have never had to face the consequences of failure, because their failures have been so damn useful and lucrative to the real puppet masters. No they stay safely ensconced in their academic, magazine and foundation whirlagig (aka Angelo Codevilla’s Ruling Class of government or all about government ‘non profits’), never having the prospect of being jobless or homeless to sharpen their attention.
But of course, anyone asking the hard questions of conservatives — what the hell they’re actually succeeding at conserving — must by definition be a Kremlin plant.
Last comment of this thread — it would appear Professor Igor Panarin’s psyop worked so well in convincing the Americans their union is headed for the fate of the Soviet Union, that Panarin’s mind rays even have infected the Wyoming Legislature:
http://trib.com/news/state-and-regional/govt-and-politics/wyoming-house-advances-doomsday-bill/article_af6e1b2b-0ca4-553f-85e9-92c0f58c00bd.html
Is there no limit to Kremlin mind control over the U.S. and how far it can go?
I wanted to link to Dylan’s John Birch Society Blues, but actually felt it was a slur to the Birchers, most of whom were harmless but patriotic people.
EOT for Senor Equis. Stay thirsty my friends.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxgiTeXKOOc&feature=related
@#26 dan, But one (of many) of the tip offs is that he didn’t put -Putin’s pending re-election- in sneer quotation marks.
Pyoot’n's “pending re-election“
“Unless the diplomatic system can avert the increasing march towards a regional civil war and the nuclearlization of the region, then a catastrophe looms which will make the hostilities in Iraq seem like a kindergarten party. It may overtake not only the Middle East, but the whole of the Mediterranean and the Caucasus.”
If that kindergarten party has a girl drawing a picture of her parental unit with a firearm, then we’ve got some real serious problem that will need immediate action. Now you just wait right where you are til I get some authorities on this.
Holy Cow! I see it all coming together now: Someone in China, or Italy, or South Africa, or San Marino, suddenly wakes up and shrieks “The Emperor is Naked!”
Within an hour U.S. currency imitates the 1980 draining of Lake Peigneur into the vast caverns of the Jefferson Island Salt Mine.
The Acorn Brigades, issued Tanks, officer badges and powers of arrest, swear their personal fealty to Urkle, then enter into a spirited debate with the Oath Takers.
Ten minutes later, Buraq abdicates, mounts his official Long Form Birth Certificate, and flies to the furthest … [deleted]
Wyoming, having prepared for these eventualities, invites the survivors to relocate to Casper to engage in a little nation-building experiment.
The rest of the former inhabitants provide excellent soil amendment for the crops for years to come.
Everyone agrees that it was a swell party.
“My guess is that the whole system is geared towards preserving itself instead of actually solving any problems.” — Wretchard at no. 11.
My uncle mentioned to me the other day that any organization that exists for more than twenty years, be it the U.N. or a local PTA, becomes self-aware Skynet-style and seeks only to perpetuate itself. The implication being that it no longer responds to the directions of the membership nor even of the leadership, but effectively acts as a separate artificial intelligence that only wants to gorge and reproduce. It’s a good point, and changed how I look at organizations. No point in wasting time hoping for anything different from the U.N.–it only cares about the prolonging of the U.N.
As for Bush, he had only two choices: be the guy who let 911 happen and did nothing in response, or be the guy who let it happen and then did something about it. Either way the mainstream narrative would have been that he was stupid, feckless and got people killed. He was a martyr the moment he chose to run for President as a republican.
RWE (10): In regard to our Fine Folks at State–
In September of 1983, President Nimiery of Sudan declared Shariah law to be in effect, triggering the 2nd Sudanese Civil War. In 1984, at a July 4 gathering at the USAID compound in Juba, I had the “privilege” of listening to a higher-up from the US embassy (not the ambassador, but perhaps the #2 guy) bloviate on what the US government was doing to help alleviate this crisis.
I dearly wish I could remember the particulars of his misbegotten address, but alas the details are lost in the mists of time. My conclusion, though is still clear to me: either (a) the US government was beyond clueless about the actual issues in Sudan, or (b) this guy was a fabulous actor and someone somewhere had decided it was in the US’ interest to appear clueless. To this day I still have not the faintest idea which of the two it was.
23. Mr. X
Pootie is supporting the Shittes in Syria. WHY? He is going to lose and would gain nothing even if he won.
That’s not to say that Israel is perfect, or even good.
“Good”???
Hmm. Let’s see now. A country (most of) whose citizens know exactly what their fates would be if the situation with their Abrahamic brothers were reversed…..
Good? Not good? Actually, some other adjectives come to mind.
File under: Yer mileage may vary.
Those clowns STILL haven’t gotten the picture. Okay, here is today’s vision.
Hillary as Lizzie Borden
Lizzie Borden took an axe,
And gave her mother forty whacks,
When she saw what she had done,
She gave her father forty-one.
I warned you Whack-A-Mullah is addictive!!!
Only months into Bush’s first term, it was apparent that he and Cheney were not bound by foggy bottom’s favorite “Middle East Peace Process.” The goose bumps still rise at the memory of the choreographed shrieks from Andrea Mitchell, Chris Matthews et al: “Bush won’t make Israel neogotiate with the Palestinians!”
This was his administration’s signal to Hillary’s acolytes at State that Homey wasn’t gonna play State’s stupid game anymore. The shrill rhetoric that flowed in response out of Democratic political compaigns, mainstream media mouthpieces and irate Arab/Muslim and European state phones was predictable after that.
Remember Condi Rices’ “16 words in the SOTU?” Remember the old “Bush Lied?” Well…
Not OT, as a resident of Saudi Arabia in the eighties, I became used to receiving Newsweek Magazine and Time with 1/2 of the pages torn out or blacked out by Muslim censors. It’s interesting to me that today, neither Newsweek nor Time suffer censorship in the Kingdom – and it’s not because the Kingdom changed. No. America’s progressive mouthpieces molded their content to conform with the Arabists’ censors.
So too, have America’s televised media been molded to comply with Arabist tastes. The “hate Bush” drivel that permeated our media messaging throughout the ‘oughts’ was distinctly foreign in its texture and tone, yet it was amplified and relayed zealously to Americans by our indigenous media day in and day out.
The allure to America’s Democratic Party publications of conforming to religious scolds half a world a way might be the symptom of a larger affliction. But, for the same allure to be tugging at America’s diplomatic corps, it must mean that we’re suffering a grand-mal seizure, and that Hillary’s prescription of take two UN resolutions, have a hot cup of El Baradai, vote Democrat, and call the UN in the morning, just won’t work this time.
So, it’s the new “cold war” front?
Bosnia dilemn again? let the Turks doing the job there !
Bizarre all these convergences with the world money crisis andn oil prices !
OK, a new world war will solve the problems !
HEY PUTIN, HAVE YOU GOT YOUR KGB DISINFORMATION EXPERTS WORKING ON A WAY TO ROLLBACK YOUR CLAIM ON MAY 24, 2010 THAT
A dire report prepared for President Medvedev by Russia’s Ministry of Natural Resources is warning today that the British Petroleum (BP) oil and gas leak in the Gulf of Mexico is about to become the worst environmental catastrophe in all of human history threatening the entire eastern half of the North American continent with “total destruction”.
http://tinyurl.com/2d33ajm
INTERFERENCE IN THE INTERNAL AFFAIRS OF ANOTHER COUNTRY IS A ONE-WAY GAME??????
AT LEAST WE CAN USE THE TRUTH THAT YOU WANT TO BECOME TSAR VLAD the IMPALER II!
# 32
This is an example of Pournelle’s Iron Law;
“…in any bureaucratic organization there will be two kinds of people: those who work to further the actual goals of the organization, and those who work for the organization itself. Examples in education would be teachers who work and sacrifice to teach children, vs. union representatives who work to protect any teacher including the most incompetent. The Iron Law states that in all cases, the second type of person will always gain control of the organization, and will always write the rules under which the organization functions.”
The World’s Leading Useful Idiot Live!
http://tinyurl.com/7pn6grq
Note how his use of two teleprompters allows him to talk without looking the American people in the eye!!
And his adoring media lapdogs missed this http://tinyurl.com/32fvumh
Kirk Parker:
My rule for watching the US Dept of State: Never ascribe to evil anything that can be ascribed to stupidity and vice versa.
The result is always right.
Keith Laumer, Robert A Heinlein and Jerry Pournelle, Oh My!
Good times.
herb @ 42 said:
“Never ascribe to evil anything that can be ascribed to stupidity and vice versa.”
This is called “Hanlon’s razor”, refer to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon's_razor
Hanlon’s Razor is almost as useful as Occam’s razor when attempting to understand a complex process and lacking complete information. Hanlon’s Razor is particularly useful towards understanding the behavior of moonbats.
It is important to remember that there are important differences between moonbats and “small-c” communists, i.e. the far more numerous moonbats tend to act randomly while “small-c” communists are capable of rational behavior and long term planning.
Join the Global War On Stupidity In Government! AKA GWOSIG
WHAT DO WE WANT?
GWOSTIG!
WHEN DO WE WANT IT?
NOW!
re: #19 – Jules
(Quoting Wretchard)
“The acknowledgement of the existence of WMDs in Syria may rewrite history’s understanding of the invasion of Iraq in 2003.”
(Jules)
“Give it up. .. Similarly the Right invested so much in Bush/OIF/neoconservatism that they are still in denial .. (ad nauseum)”
When I saw Wretchard’s thread title, I was hoping I was not going to have to respond to another nitwit allegation that “Bush lied”, and that there were no WMD’s in Iraq. But, I cannot allow Jules unqualified “every one knows this is fact” assertion.
1) Iraq undeniably had WMD’s – US forces found Chem weapons. The only question is about nuclear weapon producing activities.
2) Iraq 20 years before had a near-functioning nuclear reactor, which Israel dispatched before it went active. Iraq had the technology and knowledge.
3) The UN inspections were not some political activity invented out of whole cloth. The UN inspectors tracked order documentation. They KNEW what Iraq and purchased, shipped, and received. The only question was what Iraq was doing with the material. Unlike the Iranian subterfuge, the Iraqis WERE NOT building a nuclear power plant for peaceful purposes, or they would have shown that work to the inspectors. Anything Saddam Hussein, the Democrats, or their controlled media outlets said to the contrary, is simply a political lie.
4) If there were nuc WMD’s in Iraq, why didn’t American forces find them post invasion?
a) Saddam put much of his nuclear program on wheels. He may or may not have expected the US response, but he surely knew from the earlier Israeli action that anything of value had better not be fixed.
b) What did Saddam do to his vaunted Russian built air force in 1991, just before the US led coalition invaded Iraq? He sent it to Iran, WITH his pilots. He apriori denied his combat troops any hope of victory by sending their MIG 27 air superiority fighters to the enemy with whom he had just fought an 8 year war of attrition. He did that rather than allow them to be destroyed by the Americans. He did that to diminish his enemy’s all but certain victory. Why would he do anything different with his WMD program in 2003?
c) There are various reports that Saddam may have been transferring materials and weapons to the Baath Syrian regime. And in 2007, a regime with no background, no expertise, and no material trail, is suddenly found with a nearly operation nuclear reactor in the desert. They were certainly assisted by foreign talent – the NORK’s and Chinese were supposedly players, but what part of the Syrian program evolved from Iranian imports?
d) You do know that “The Hurt Locker” was a Hollywood myth written by leftist Democrats out to elect a Democrat to replace Bush, correct?
5) Conclusion: I have no proof that Saddam had a nuc program, but neither for the most part, does the American and European left that he did not. I have a good deal disagreement with the way that Bush waged the war, i.e. I do not believe in “nation building” until the last shot is fired and the enemy utterly defeated. That said, Bush was hamstrung by an unpatriotic opposition who’d sooner see more American body bags than American victory – anywhere. American should have extended the war past Bagdad, through Syria and Iran, and pacified the Pakistanis to boot. (If ever a country needed a nuclear weapon detonated over it’s capital city, it’s that cesspool of a country.)
No, I will not just “give it up” because the Democrats and MSM had declared their convenient truth. Many American civilians will die before this war is over because of the opportunism and fecklessness of the American Democrats and their fellow traveler leftists. These civilians, half the American kids that died in Iraq, and nearly all that have died in Afghanistan are charged to the American left. If I cannot prosecute that debt in my lifetime, I trust the good Lord will bring them to judgement for their lies, deceits, and treasonous opportunism in the next.
Old Salt
‘US to announce aerial blockade on Syria’
http://tinyurl.com/6nyffbr
Gulf oil spill trial is delayed by federal judge
http://tinyurl.com/7zbyn8u
‘NUFF SAID!
These civilians, half the American kids that died in Iraq, and nearly all that have died in Afghanistan are charged to the American left.
The left deserve some blame but the GOP launched the unnecessary war and in the process helped put Obama in the WH by discrediting the political right in the eyes of most educated people and thus moved the culture leftward. All the intellectual capital wasted on Iraq could’ve been spent on important issues like fighting political correctness or accurately describing the nature of Islamic societies but no, instead we got Gorge W Bush playing the race card (war opponents are “guilty of the racism of low expectations”, “Islam means peace,” the Iraqis – and Afghans – are just Americans waiting to break out etc). Sam Francis was right: the Democrats = the Evil Party; the GOP= the Stupid Party.
“Western diplomats don’t mind getting the despised Jew to do the dirty work. ”
At some point Israel will say “F.U. and your mother’s filthy c**t that hatched you! Fight your own wars!” to the effete Americans and Eurocrats that maintain this attitude.
“Barack Obama…seems determined to play the traditional Game demanded by the mustache Putes to the end.”
Fixed that one for you, Richard.
To those posters who don’t remember: The Democrat Party refused to acknowledge that G.W. Bush won the Florida vote, because that state’s results put Bush over the top to beat Kerry. The Florida Democrat Party enjoyed state legislative majority and so controlled the election apparatus. Despite weeks of re-counts in which the Democrats tried to steer the count toward Kerry by changing the rules with each re-count, BUSH WON EVERY SINGLE RE-COUNT. This was eventually acknowledged even by the editorial staff of the New York Times.
A dozen years later the Democrat Party and many of its adherents persist in the claim that Bush and the US Supreme Court STOLE the election (all SCOTUS did was return the issue to the State of Florida to be decided.)
The practical upshot of the Dem Party refusal was a sustained temper tantrum, in which the Democrats in the Senate refused to vote on a long list of Bush’s appointments to crucial Cabinet posts.
Thanks to these infantile tactics, a substantial fraction of the administration was disrupted, unsettled, denied clear leadership and structure, from January through the summer of 2001. Of course, that’s the period when the terrorists were finalizing their preparations for the hijacking of U.S. domestic airliners and passengers to use as suicide bombs against the World Trade Center, The Pentagon, and the U.S. Congress.
In other words, the Democrats, who had already set up impenetrable barriers to obstruct the exchange of information on terrorist threats between CIA and FBI, did their damndest to tie up, clog, jam, and torpedo Bush, while they continued throughout the spring and summer to contest the election results.
Of course, rational discussion of established historical fact requires all conversants to understand and accept the premise of rationality.
Old Salt @346: Well said sir.
Let the Jews do it? Not his time. They can’t, not without expending their own nukes.
Yes, the Israeli Air Force now has friendly air space to fly over (Iraq) thanks to Dubya and General Petraeus. But the IAF cannot mount the kind of 45 to 60 day air campaign that would be needed.
This time we do not have a single reactor sitting out in the open. Instead we have a multiplicity of facilities that are camoflauged, hardened, and redundant. For the air arm to disable that with any degree of certainty will require repeated strikes, including heavy bombs on heavy bombers, all delivered
precisely and repeatedly on all possible targets. Iran is Ploesti with attitude.
So time to page Victor Davis Hanson and his Uncle Billy. Try the indirect approach and have Uncle Sam do away with the supporting logistics.
Screw sanctions. Insitute a blockade and let nothing in or out without our express written consent. Let Iran sell no oil nor import any goods. Seize all foreign financial assets, sequestering privately owned and confiscating those of government. Meaning they have no way to pay for anything. Work over their electrical generating facilities and power grid. Those places with auxillary units then become a big illuminated bullseye. Last but not least disable their refining capability. No exports, no imports, no money, no power and no fuel.
They are not going to be able to do a lot. Once all that is in place, tactical air strikes will be sufficient to do away with Persian WMD capability for decades. However, this will take US assets. Israeli assets are too limited.
Now for the bad news. The purpose of the operation should not be to target WMDs. It should be to force the Mullahs to surrender. In their place there should be a federalist Iran—–a consitutional monarchy might be just the ticket. The surrender will probably not come about unless there is an invasion force ready to roll. We may well not have to use it but it has to be at our disposal nonetheless. Also, a plan for conducting the reconstructing occupation has to be available as well. (This plan MUST include American-style freedom of religion as part of the Iranian legal code.)
We can too do this and Israel can help. Who knows, even the French might help out. But we have to set our minds to it and stop the daydreaming of some magical bullet that will do things on the quick and easy.
And that is What She Wrote.
#46 Old Salt
Correction:
“but what part of the Syrian program evolved from Iranian imports?”
I meant to say “Iraqi imports”, as that was the point of much of my post. Iraq likely exported it’s WMD’s to Syria just before the 2003 invasion. The material went SOMEWHERE, there was precedent for Saddam doing such a thing, and Syria was the most likely destination. Saddam had all the time in the world to plan and execute the plan.
#50 Mad Fiddler
You meant Gore/Lieberman for the 2000 contested election.
Kerry/Edwards were the Democrat nominees in 2004.
And yes, you’ll hear a majority of Democrats still refusing to acknowledge that G.W. Bush won the 2000 election, regardless of evidence. And you are accurate, that a majority of Bush’s cabinet positions were vacant when 9/11 hit, partially because of the late start (election issues lasted until March, if I recall), but mainly due to the Democrat Senate stonewalling every and any nomination. If they could not chad-the-election for Gore, they were going to do everything necessary to guarantee that Bush was a failed President. 9/11 disrupted plans to that end which were well along. I can guarantee you that the Democrats hated Osama Bin Laden more for that than they did for the actual attack.
I have to laugh when I hear leftist accuse the GOP congress of obstructing Obama’s agenda. Not only do they conveniently ignore that the Democrats held the US House from 2006 to 2010 and Senate from 2008 to 2010, meaning that they had a total lock on any legislation for at least two years, and held the country’s purse strings for four, but they had their bi-partisan negotiator in chief doing the “I won” brand of negotiation.
In the entire friggin history of Democrat held Congressional majorities since at least the 1970′s, the single word that epitomizes them is “Imperial”. They renege on agreements, made legislation in their own cloak room (i.e. no GOP congressman need both proposing anything), ran every type of corrupt enterprise from the House bank to the Senate Barbershop, and generally did what they could to sabotage America from within.
Now, I have my own problem with the GOP, namely, the GOP RINO’s have held all of the seniority posts whenever the GOP held majorities (certainly in the Senate), and have blocked the conservative agenda in the same way that Romney will if he’s elected. However, the only people who can “honestly” claim that Obama has been blocked by the GOP congress are those who are completely ignorant of history, and probably, willfully ignorant.
So, your post is appropriate, but the Dem’s and ignorant “Independents” aren’t listening.
Old Salt
I like dan’s clarity.
Dave @ 51
Paint a bullseye here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatema_M%C3%A6%27sume
While waiting for the paint to dry, eject Putin from office.
It’s called multitasking.
Didn’t the prophets predict the 12th Imam? Maybe they failed to notice the
Made in USA label!
This ought to do the trick! http://tinyurl.com/8yolbfz
Re 14. Wretchard
“Proposition: there would be more conflict in the Middle East, at least in the short term, without the Jews to kick around. In fact, if there were no Israel the Arab states would positively pay to create its equivalent.”
Indeed, without Israel the muslims would be at each other’s throats, if not for sectarian reasons then for oil, money, and food. The arab credo is “me against my brother, my brother and I against my cousin, me and my cousins against the infidel”. Without an infidel in reach, they will slaughter each other…or build ICBMs to reach the infidel.
Thanks to Israel, today Iraq, Syria and Iran are not nuked up already, and the Saudis are not scrambling to hire European engineers to mount Paki nukes on their Chinese ballistic missiles in response. Without Israel to “mow the grass” every once in a while, the US would inevitably be drawn into a very nasty and brutal serious of wars, with the possibility of WMD revenge attacks on our homeland. I’d rather we help the Izzys to do it. This is why Israel is fondly called our unsinkable aircraft carrier.
Re 21. Gaffe Prices, 46. Old Salt
Most of the Syrian and Iraqi WMD is/was chem with a little bio. The Israelis did not allow Arabs to build nuclear bombs, and chem/bio programs are much easier to hide and disguise. The good news is our troops train and deploy with detectors and protective equipment. Bad news is civilian targets would be very vulnerable to arab WMDs.
The opposition in Syria is a big unknown at this point. One could worry more about the WMDs that stay in Syria under new management than those that get smuggled into Iraq…
Old Salt @ 46: “No, I will not just “give it up” because the Democrats and MSM had declared their convenient truth. Many American civilians will die before this war is over because of the opportunism and fecklessness of the American Democrats and their fellow traveler leftists. These civilians, half the American kids that died in Iraq, and nearly all that have died in Afghanistan are charged to the American left. If I cannot prosecute that debt in my lifetime, I trust the good Lord will bring them to judgement for their lies, deceits, and treasonous opportunism in the next.”
Well said! Thank you.
Thanks, Old Salt, for the correction to my spasm. I’ve fallen into bad habits. Time to reform.
You are of course correct about the Left not listening here in this forum, except for a few obvious plants. The main reason for bothering to work out some of these minuscule essays is to organize my thoughts for conversations with people who might be willing to reconsider their views. In that case, having references and citations available is a good thing.
Thanks, everyone, for the thoughtful comments!