The Justice Department’s Tracy Schmaler and 3 Characteristics of Political Thugs
In the days following the Night of the Long Knives in 1934, a bizarre press conference took place in Berlin. Hermann Goering stood before the foreign press corps and explained why Hitler’s regime had the obligation to murder hundreds of Germans in the dead of night without due process. The farce is described in Erik Larson’s In the Garden of Beasts.
At the time, Germany still had one foot barely in in the democratic past and the other foot dragging the Reich toward indescribable madness. One wonders what the unrecorded thoughts were of the assembled journalists. Some might have considered this an aberration, a frightening yet short fit of madness by a man trying to reverse Germany’s malaise. Such apologists were particularly common in Roosevelt’s State Department. Others reporters surely had enough human decency to recognize the warning signs of a democratic and enlightened people experiencing a rapid moral collapse.
Goering, however, as was his way, had no shame in standing before representatives of the foreign free press and justifying murder. It should have been obvious to everyone listening to him that the Nazis were a demonic sort, capable of anything, and afterwards equally capable of justifying their twisted behavior.
Today’s revelation by Matt Boyle that the Justice Department is coordinating attacks on private citizens (including me) and coordinating with Media Matters on a wider scale than I first reported some months ago here at PJ Media provokes the question — why?
I raise this German history not to compare the events of that era to events today in America, but rather to note peculiar characteristics common to political thuggery, regardless of the degree or nationality of the thuggery.
To be perfectly clear, Eric Holder is no Hermann Goering, so the flying monkeys at Media Matters can abandon that meme. Others, at Investor’s Business Daily, for example, are willing to make comparisons I do not:
After the acts, the DOJ then praised them: “Great piece,” gushed Schmaler after Media Matters attacked DOJ whistle-blowers J. Christian Adams and Christopher Coates. . . .
Incredibly, this isn’t happening in some totalitarian dictatorship or banana republic, but here in the U.S.
Now we see something else — Media Matters acting as an ideological goon squad of the Justice Department to enforce the kind of press Obama wants.
This thuggish meddling crosses the line into dictatorship, and calls for a congressional investigation.
Some time has passed since Matt Boyle broke the story today about the close coordination between Tracy Schmaler, head of the Office of Public Affairs (OPA), and Media Matters. Megyn Kelly’s Fox report notes that Schmaler writes “great piece” after attacking former Justice Department Voting Section Chief Christopher Coates. Coates is one of the most decent and courteous lawyers I have ever met. An attack on him by the head of OPA while he was still employed at DOJ is a disgrace.
“Fast and Furious”“Murder and Mendacity”: Eric Holder’s and Barack Obama’s rolling 9/11 against Mexico.The United States now is a country that has both a sitting President and a sitting Attorney General who are mass murderers.
I would be cautious about calling Obama and Holder mass murderers. Bad as they are, they don’t compare to Nazi Germany. I reviewed Erik Larson’s book, and the scary part is the choice of ambassadors to Germany and to Europe in general, during the Roosevelt administration. Here is my review and analysis of how we described Nazism after WW2. http://clarespark.com/2011/08/14/review-in-the-garden-of-beasts-by-erik-larson/.
The difference is only one of degrees, not substance.
When you facilitate, and then excuse immoral behavior, don’t be surprised when others proclaim you as one who lacks morals, and compares you to the worst of the worst.
I suppose that since they didn’t eat their enemies, they can’t be compared to the thuggery of Idi Amin.
Thugs are thugs!
They aren’t, yet. Instead what they are doing is turning a blind eye to the violence committed by their “brown shirts” in the streets. Whether that is simply increasing the terror of random street crime or targeting undesirable voters to keep them from voting or even driving them out district, it is quietly smiled upon.
Keep in mind that DHS has bought over a billion rounds of ammunition in the last couple of years, with another 200 million recently. Why does that agency need so much ammo?
Project Gun Runner (Fast and Furious) was launched under the orders of President Barack Obama with the knowledge of Attorney General Eric Holder. Deputy Attorney General David Ogden announced the Obama Administration’s new and aggressive ‘comprehensive plan’ on March, 24, 2009. The plan was aimed at disrupting gun trafficking between the United States and Mexico. Full C-SPAN Video Link 3-24-2009
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/MexicoBorstart=800
Neither are mass murderers? Hmmmm? Eric Holder and Soetoro(Obama) have no deaths attributed to them in association? Never mind the millions killed so far in war but lets just look at those who have died directly associated to him that posed a threat: Google “FW: OBAMA DEATH LIST” from myrightwingdad.blogspot.com and “The Obama Death Pool… ‘Mysterious’ Deaths Surround Obama” from knowthelies.com
They pale in comparison to Goering? Yeah right.These murders were committed BEFORE the coming WWIII.Just wait until martial law is declared.It matters not who is installed as “President” for they are all controlled opposition…they are all psychopaths that have murdered during “their” reigns of the regime.Here’s Clintons murders :CLINTON BODY COUNT By: Ether Zone Staff and of course for you Repubicans here is Bush’s Death List too http://www.newsfollowup.com/bushfortune.htm#Bush%20Death%20List
You’re such a weasel sometimes. You’re a lawyer. I guess it can’t be helped.
Outside the world’s most disgusting profession, variation of degree is not really as important as it is, inside. Humans didn’t have stupid things like 1st and 2nd degree laws until lawyers needed a way to get guilty clients off. Now look at the mess this has caused. There is no longer anything at all “just” about the Justice Department, but it’s all perfectly sorta legal.
Hermann Goering and his pals didn’t start out killing hundreds and thousands, but once you have decided to murder even one just because it benefits you somehow, you are a murderer. If no one stops you, you might get to like it.
At this point, Obama and Holder, and, indeed, Schmaler, have already crossed that line,and they don’t think there’s anything wrong with it. Pray tell, what is the standard lawyerly benchmark for mass murder?
Let’s also keep in mind that nobody ever saw Hitler murder even one single person. He might have killed Eva, but we’ll never know for sure. Well, then. I guess he was innocent, after all. It was probably a vast, right wing conspiracy.
It feels like a banana republic because that is now what it is. The reason South America and Mexico are hellholes is because the people are obviously too stupid to vote. After all, they’ve had the vote for over a century everywhere. What’s the first thing they do? Vote in some dictator. Now they’re here. You fill in the rest.
They’re only not as bad as Hitler because they haven’t really gotten rolling, yet. When we sit back and let the Arabs nuke Jerusalem, will that count?
I wonder. It’ll probably be another “unexpected” development.
300,000,OOO+ people can sit around listening to Carney spin and lie about even major assaults on our nation and our sovereignty; both by physically violent foreign thugs and lawfaringly (my word) violent thugs like the bozos at the U.N. with their Small Arms Treaty and their “Law of the Sea” sovereignty robbing delusions – all backed by this current administration.
“This thuggish meddling crosses the line into dictatorship, and calls for a congressional investigation.”
No S?§/ Sherlock!!! That’s like saying, “Johnny messing his pants in class crosses the line into bad manners, and calls for 10 minutes of standing in the corner of the room.” No wonder we’re in such bad shape.
Ahmanadinejad IS another Hitler. He’s making preparations to nuke Israel. Obama is letting it happen. That makes him complicit.
Let’s not understate the facts here.
John J. makes a good point. Just what is the benchmark of evil? Is it one vote stolen, one American murdered, one American disappeared into Obama’s gulag? Or does it take a thousand or a million of each? Well, lets not worry about it, it doesn’t effect us. Yet.
In Germany, the Nazis were always scrupulous about making everything they did legal. They started out sterilizing retarded people, a socially progressive idea at the time, even in America. Then, it progressed into a very large program to fix the main cause of all social problems. Today, we are burdened with the flexibly defined terrorist problem. Jeepers, anyone can be a terrorist. Even a Jew. That’s why we need the drones to keep an eye on us and why nobody can be trusted to board an airplane without a complete search. I’m guessing fat people will need to be controlled, they endanger all of us with their expensive health problems. Bullies too, because they cause fear. Movie makers who poke fun of Islam are certainly a big problem, they cause violence, murder and mayhem. Yep, the list is getting started and as the problems continue to grow in spite of these reasonable and mild corrective measures, the scope of the solutions will need to grow with them. And, we can be gratified to know everything will be done legally. I’m so glad I live in these modern, advanced and intelligent times.
I watched this on Megyn Kelly’s program yesterday. She was obviously disturbed by the revelation. So am I, but I’m not surprised. Holder is without peer in this Administration’s pursuit of what it calls “fairness” or “justice”, liberal “dog whistles”, to use their favorite analogy, for what it’s really all about: getting even. And then some. Justice it ain’t.
Comparing the DOJ, and its goon squads, to thugs is more than appropriate. In fact, they deserve to be spanked with much worse.
Intimidating those who exercise their right to free speech is not only unseemly, but it is illegal!
It is hard to fathom a more insidious abuse of power, than under the reign of Holder, so ordered by the Thug-in-Chief – Barack HUSSEIN Obama.
In fact, the whole sordid gang of lawbreakers can give lessons to the most notorious Mafia goons. And, we all know, the actions of DOJ has been the cause of who knows how many dead bodies to boot!
Fast & Furious, anyone?
http://adinakutnicki.com/2012/08/01/will-barack-hussein-obamas-lawless-justice-department-under-the-aegis-of-ag-holder-finally-fall-commentary-by-adina-kutnicki/ is more than on target.
I’m confused. You call MMFA “flying monkeys”, yet the Tracy Schmaler picture seems to correlate better.
I don’t understand the Goering bit. It looks like a contrived “Put your Nazi in, Take your Nazi out, Do the Okey-Dokey” when you had Stalin gold “The press must grow day in and day out — it is our Party’s sharpest and most powerful weapon. “ at your fingertips.
Hermann Goering didn’t spring fully formed from the womb. He “evolved” over time. He “grew” into his mendacious, murdering self. Small acts of bad behavior will invariably spawn larger acts of evil if they’re overlooked. If you want to channel the Nazi experience then try “Broken Windows Policing Prevents Kristallnacht”.
Will be more than fitting to see them all packing their things and getting out of Washington. New leadership coming soon.
new leadership that will fall right in step with the presently rolling march, and continue heading in the same direction. Remember his comment above about how nations repeatedly, once they get the “right to vote” install dictators? When a wretched “author” is grinding out a wretched tale at his keyboard, switching to a different font and type colour mid-paragraph won’t change the story one bit. We had a candidate who was so totally “other” compared to the two we have left he was a high level threat to the established ruling elite, and was sidetracked, ridiculed, marginlalised (I like that german verb “schmalern”, it fits right here) and robbed of his rightful delegates, then shunned from the Convention. I’ve also been finding some interesting information on the Kennedy assassinations.. seems they, John and Robert, were such a threat to the money-making power mongering elite they had to be “taken care of” to allow the system to continue on. Looking back, it was just about then, starting with the Johnson presidency, when we started to really take a wrong turn as a nation. Viet Nam was the first “sick” war we prosecuted, John K wanted to get us uninvolved, and was taking steps to do so when he was murdered. Imagine our history had he not been shot, and we never “did” Viet Nam? Wasn’t it during that conflict private citizens began to be killed and jailed for exercising their First Ammendment rights, free speech largely shut down, laws came round to disarm or severely restrict possession of arms by civilians, “national security” began to be more about meddling in the affairs of nations far and wide, rather than securing our own nation, and the military budget began growing exponentially, to the point it now comprises the larger half of our spending? It was also about that time when welfare and “entitlements” began increasing exponentially….. interesting, all that. And we have thugs like Holder and his Kingpin(head) supplying arms to Mexico’s worst murderers, against all laws and right thinking, and now this creep Schmaler justifying it, selling it to a gullible public as a “good thing”, so glad we are able to do good unto others…….
You need to get back on your meds!
‘Get back on your meds’ Pretty rude thing to say.
Perhaps you should look at what he says that can be substantiated (most) and apply those truths as credits… to what can’t be proven either way. Quit hoping for something to be the way You Think it is. …and Get some manors.
Duke [..?..],
One can’t can’t just go out and “get” manors, surely you must know that they have to be awarded by the Sovereign with the title granted by a light touch on the shoulder with a sword while kneeling at Court. The same way as you acquired yours, eh?
Preferably from among those vast landholdings confiscated after the dissolution of the monasteries.
Well, if for no other reason, we need to vote Republican this year. It’s the only chance we have of the media actually holding the politically elite in check! They’ll ignore and excuse every Democratic scandal and exaggerate the Republican ones. But at least they WILL investigate the Republican scandals.
After the first three sentences or so, I thought…”Oh lord, another Ron Paulista.” And then I read a bit further and thought…”Man! this guy is a conspiracist!” And then I thought…”this guy is crazy.”
So yeah, I do agree that he should get back on his meds. And if he’ll slip on this jacket, I’ll help with the straps and clasps.
One quibble with the quoted IBD piece, which says, “Incredibly, this isn’t happening in some totalitarian dictatorship or banana republic, but here in the U.S.”
They seem unwilling to believe or admit that the latter cannot be the former. Open your eyes, people!
To be perfectly clear, Eric Holder is no Hermann Goering
That’s true. Holder is skinnier and doesn’t hunt wild boar to the best of my knowledge.
Issa had wiretaps on DoJ phones as early as fall of 2010. This alone is rather striking. People within DoJ outed the bad actor(s), and with evidence and testimony, a judge consented to the tapping.
2 years later, Issa has yet to roll a hostile witness, perjury trap a low level flunky or secure a single conviction. Obama invoked executive privilege and everything seemingly came to a screeching halt.
Either Issa is incompetent or he’s playing an insider political game. It doesn’t really matter, justice delayed is justice denied. Brian Terry’s family and Mexican victims of FnF deserve more than lip service.
Its past time to “go to the matresses” against these thugs!
Congressional hearings? LOL! How’s that working out for Darrel Issa on “Fast and Furious’?
A few well-placed legal actions would be much better, or the whole of American society might descend into a few “well-placed” somethings else!
If the O wins, there will be blood.
ditto.
likewise.
correction (minor): there will be MORE blood. If the R wins, there will still be blood, as he has no plans to clean house and set things right, unlike another “unelectable” candidate. Thus the sick power system currently in place will continue. Unless the incoming Chief Executive turns loose a house cleaning tornado and overturns the money tables, driving the thieves out, nothing much will change, the current course will continue to run. He’d have to clean out Justice of the dozens (hundreds?) of avowed marxist-socialist operatives implanted in the past few decades, including people like this Schmaler; turn out the two marxist socialist Supreme Court “justices” implanted by the kinyun, and a hosst of other federal level judges (legislating from the bench in cases like the Michigan shariah law “judgement”, the “overturning” of California’s Prop 8 by a prejudiced judge with his own perverted agenda, and so forth. Romney won’t, so the status quo ante will continue s the status quo post. Until the whole charade either collapses or is blown to smithereens from its own corruption, or a REAL President comes out of the woodwork and manages to “sneak” past all the barricades and chicanes erected by the ruling elite and gets elected. Even then, the same process will have to have taken place in both Houses of the COngress nearly simultaneously.
We can’t expect to ‘fix’ Our government in one election cycle. Lets ‘put him in there’ and see where we go. What we have now… is a sure end to Our Constitution.
Even a step sideways, is better than six back.
I desagree! I believe Ryan will hold Romney’s feet to the fire. I also believe Romney is really planning to create jobs and cut the deficit. I believe he will drill, drill and we will not be dependent on foreign oil.
I believe Romney has the sole of a man who likes to see success in all that he does. I know he is known as a RHINO but his decision to pick Ryan was a major flag that he intends to honor his promises.
……”has the sole of a man”……?
That man’s left shoe or right?….leather or rubber?…….composite?
[OK...apologies....this is uncontrollable..it's a handicap...never let a good opportunity pass...etc.etc....]
I’ve been saying this for a while now, in the wake of things like the SEIU members beatdown of an African-American conservative demonstrator.
In violence studies it’s called, “the interview.” It’s when a potential assailant makes moves such as invading your personal space, provocations, etc, to determine whether you are a safe victim or not.
Excellent counter-attack. With the A.C.L.J. on the case, this is going to bite.
Another characteristic of thugs is the vacant, nihilistic visage, the physical deformation that evolves with the soul’s diminishment. And yet the deformation can’t be complete inasmuch as the thug can’t but help think he is on the side of good. Hence the queer charisma glimmering in the emptiness.
Even when voted out they will not go away, they have bought their constituency with tax payer money. Obama and his Marxists have initiated the Piven/Alinsky Plan with the help of the Democrat Party, their plan is to ruin the Republic for a Dictatorship of the Proletariat. Another huge purchase of small arms ammunition has been bought along with .308 sniper ammunition by this government for federal ‘law’ agencies just this last week, they have to explain this purchase and why our armed forces are being trained for a civil insurrection in this country by Obama’s apparacheki?
it’s because if the O wins, there will be blood, and if the O loses, there will be blood.
I read the Israeli press everyday, and wonder that no one from Israel can see how pernicious that place is on press freedom.
I first saw the type at Hopkins back in the 1960s and will say that their tribe has increased. The saving point is that they are cowards one and all.
Well, the article is about Justice and their harassment of people like good Mr. Adams. Why this should lead to an intra-Israel or extra-Israel discussion on Israeli media is a bit hard to follow. But certainly there is a left-tilt and censorship in the Israeli press. For sure.
My question, is this a crime? It sounds like it should be. Of course, mainstream media in the US is not different than the TASS (government-run news) in Soviet Russia. I naively expect more in the USA.
Should Obama be re-elected, your vocabulary regarding Obama will be regulated/whittled down to two adjectives: plusgood and doubleplusgood.
This is a clear violation of The Hatch Act.
Sure is. And whom does the investigations? Like Catherine Sibelius? Little pat on the hand for good work honey. These people are disgraceful and someone above is correct that the government is FULL of them. They must be fired.
Yoou are deeply confused or projecting. Yes the evdience is incontrovertible that the DOJ was stuffed with partisan hacks in violation of the Hatch Act, and that the US Attorneys engagaged in plotical perscutions based on direct orders from the White House.
Unfortunately that all happened during the LAST administration. You may recall the Names Monica Goodling, and Bradley Schlozman to name a few, and the unkind things the DOJ inspector general had to say about thier illegal activities. Chris Coates was Hired by the law-breaker Schlozman to be a “True memeber of the team” in the civil rights section after Schlozman fired two female minority members of the Civil Rights Office so he could replace them with, in his e-mailed words to the heritage foundation asking for resumes, “Real, good, Americans”
This commment is factually innacurate regarding Mr. Coates. Wholly innacurate in this and other respects.
Look forward to squads of Lesbian Avengers and their gay assistants fanning out to make sure the entire country becomes a Hate Free zone.
The Federalist No. 45 Alleged Danger From the Powers of the Union to the State Governments Considered Independent Journal Saturday, January 26, 1788 [James Madison]
http://constitution.org/fed/federa45.htm
You’d find much more more wisdom in the Anti-Federalist Papers. Lotsa those ‘slippery-slope’ arguments; all csme true, just as predicted.
‘Progressives’ have only managed to ‘progress’ from ‘restrictive, onerous’ lawful morality to lawless immorality (which they call freedom). Liberals never liberate anyone – they only ever take liberties with everyone!
Re: their “The Ends Justify The Means!” meme:
They pretend to believe that the ends justify the means, when in fact the means really only define the end results: If and when you choose to lie, murder and rob others “to get ahead,” then, in the end, you’re not a “great success” – you’re still really only a lying, murdering thief!
ALL infantile delinquent liberal Emocrats pretend to imagine that:
“Since there’s always a diverse multiplicity of causes and effects for everything, not only are we all helpless victims before life’s complexities, but it’s also true that all facts are really only opinions anyway! So my subjective, fact-free opinion is the diversely opposite ‘equal’ to your silly objective facts! Whee! So, obviously we all need a bigger group to protect us from ourselves and from other dangerous groups! Only groups should have rights, and all merely fallible and so potentially dangerous individual human citizens should at most be assigned some temporary, revokable privileges!
And furthermore, it’s only my right to be irresponsible, and only everyone else’s responsibility to be right (as in factually correct)!
Libs are idolaters who pretend to believe in group rights, never in individual responsibilities!
And their real problem is that liberals hate personal responsibility, so they avoid it by selling endless group-rights victimology scenarios instead. That way the cowards can pretend to be champions without accusing any individual criminals of their crimes!
So, yes – never having any facts which would ever agree with their perpetual irrationality, the left must always resort to the slanderous evasions known collectively as the critical thinking logical fallacies (the deflective ad-hominem personal attacks, the distractive strawman red-herrings, and of course the immoral relativist’s favorite, the tu quoque – i.e: “islam – or crime in general – isn’t evil because we all do it too! Whee!”).
Isn’t it funny that people who actually have facts, rarely (if ever) seem to feel the need to indulge in fallacies?
To put a finer point to it, the selective license to commit thuggery is not dictatorship, it is the ability to create a dictatorship whenever desired. The one block in the way of our currently criminal government is the upcoming election. If they do not take a political hit for this stuff our democracy will become one of those where constitution governance is never more than a useful fiction.
John, are you the LSU grad “John Stone” from Missouri?
As to Schmaler’s salary, yuou may get the exact number by going this route:
http://www.app.com/
then:
http://search.app.com/sp?aff=1100&skin=&keywords=federal employees salaries
And then take it from there.
I have a search result (which I won’t reveal) for one agency, and it is quite meticulous and very revealing.
Thanks for the tip. As of 2011, Schmaler was listed as a GS-15. Her base salary was $161,289, which puts her squarely in my estimate.
http://php.app.com/fed_employees11/results.php?fullname=Schmaler&topagency=%25&agency_name=%25&job_title=%25&statename=%25&Submit=Search
This only proves – again – that Gov’t rules, regs or laws are meaningful only to the extent they are enforced. And if so then The corollary must be that in Politics, those that play by the rules invariably finish last. I sometimes wonder if those tasked with oversight are strong enough to hold them accountable or if they’re simply passing time waiting for their turn at the trough …
Are you seriously comparing mass murder to media criticism? Shameful and stupid. I didn’t see any of you batting an eye when the bush Admin used Fox News as its personal media attack dog for 8 years. The hypocrisy is astounding.
I remember when one minor bush official got caught calluding with one single blogger in this way, and it was a MSM story for months. Now we have one the the largest and most important gov agencies, DOJ, caught red handed caluding with a huge leftist media empire. Want to bet the MSM response will be … silence.
“To be perfectly clear, Eric Holder is no Hermann Goering”
Sure he is, both believe(d) that their preferred stereotypes of race and class validate the politically enforced redistribution of resources. All opposition to such this stereotype driven redistribution is regarded as a danger to civilization, which is the only moral validation necessary for any kind of atrocity, from stripping citizens of their much needed paychecks, to destroying lives.
The only difference between the two is in the racial stereotypes each use(d) to validate political aggression, “oppressive Jews” vs. “oppressive whites;” but both Goring and Holder erroneously judge(d) these groups of people as a universal, absolute threat to national health and welfare.
The degree of difference each penalize (d) those they have stereotyped as universally destructive, is not caused by a difference in their political perspective; it is caused by a difference in their stereotype driven value judgements. Jews were presumed by Goring to be such a threat as to require their annihilation; while whites are presumed by Holder (so far) to be a threat requiring the lesser penalty of discrimination.
“At the time, Germany still had one foot barely in in the democratic past and the other foot dragging the Reich toward indescribable madness. One wonders what the unrecorded thoughts were of the assembled journalists. Some might have considered this an aberration, a frightening yet short fit of madness by a man trying to reverse Germany’s malaise. Such apologists were particularly common in Roosevelt’s State Department. Others reporters surely had enough human decency to recognize the warning signs of a democratic and enlightened people experiencing a rapid moral collapse.”
We now know, courtesy of VENONA, that Roosevelt did indeed have Communists within his administration (Lauclin Currie and Harry Dexter White, to name a couple). During the Night of the Long Knives, the Soviets were still friendly with Nazi Germany and went out of their way to ensure that nothing that was done on our side of the Atlantic would interfere with what was going on in Europe. The Communist Party of the USA was charged with making sure that all Good Countrymen (card carrying members) and Fellow Travelers (Socialists and others sympathetic to the cause) did their utmost to keep America out of Europe’s business.
It wasn’t until Hitler broke the non-aggression pact it had with Stalin and attacked the Soviet Union, that things changed and it was now acceptable to push for US involvement in the war raging on in Europe.
Warrantless Spying Bill Passes House, Moves to the Senate THURSDAY, 13 SEPTEMBER 2012
http://www.rightsidenews.com/2012091417023/us/homeland-security/warrantless-spying-bill-passes-house-moves-to-the-senate.html
An article that was interesting chiefly for its tardiness. Democrats have specialized in thuggery since 1964, and each year it has grown worse. Muslims and Democrats, all of them, are America’s greatest enemies, and there is no point in being nice to them. Take them off your list of friends and tell them why, and prepare to kill them when the war they are starting heats up.