What Really Happened in Egypt and Libya: A Simple Answer and a Surprising One
What happened in Egypt was very simple. The Egyptian government knew that a demonstration would be held by radical anti-American forces, including the local branch of al-Qaeda, outside the U.S. embassy. Through an understanding of the ideology, analysis of public statements and past experience, and probably intelligence penetration, it knew they intended to storm the embassy.
The highest levels of the Egyptian government decided not to protect the embassy, in breach of their international obligations. And they knew — or rightly expected — that the Obama administration would not punish them for behaving that way.
What’s the difference between Iran in 1978 and Egypt in 2012? In the first case, the Iranian Islamist government let its supporters take over the embassy completely and seized everyone inside as hostages. This led to a confrontation. The more cautious Egyptian regime simply let the mob trash the part of the embassy outside of the buildings. After all, there are billions of dollars in U.S. funds and arms to be obtained by a little restraint.
The Egypt case is also interesting from the Israel-as-canary-in-the-coal-mine image. A year ago, the Egyptian government let the mob attack the embassy and stopped them only when they were about to try to grab the diplomats inside. President Barack Obama finally bestirred himself and asked the Egyptian government to stop the assault.
I have heard some commentators bash Obama for making a gaffe in saying Egypt was no longer an ally. That’s not the point –Obama was admitting to the loss of America’s most important ally in the Arab world. It wasn’t a mistake. Obama, however unintentionally, spoke the truth. It’s the reality that’s so upsetting. (I bet that Obama is now being briefed on a long list of anti-American actions by Egypt’s government, including ones we don’t know about, and just blurted out what the intelligence and State Department people are telling him in private.)
A few months from now, it will be increasingly apparent that it is now in the enemy category.
Libya is more complex, and I’m going to try out a thesis here. I know I cannot prove it, but this scenario seems to make perfect sense in light of what we know. Forget about the probably made-up story by a left-wing, anti-American sensationalist British newspaper that the Obama administration knew about the attack in advance. They should have worried whether they had any specific data.
But that’s not what’s really shocking. Here’s what’s really shocking: there was so little American security presence on the ground. Why was the ambassador being taken out of his hiding place by Libyan forces that had no serious experience in counter-terrorist security and were badly infiltrated?
Here’s my theory: the Obama administration wanted to show that it was not some bullying First World government that looked down on the locals. Send in a platoon or two of crack U.S. forces? Why, that would insult the Libyans. Let them handle it themselves and that would show they were being treated as equals.
When the ambassador was killed, he was totally under the control and protection of Libyan security forces, accompanied only by two Marines. Doesn’t this strike anyone as strange? (The two Marines and the embassy public affairs officer were killed alongside him.) And after the ambassador was killed, a small force was sent in but operating only in partnership with a Libyan force (which seems to have been reasonably competent) to rescue the rest of the staff. But the Libyan commander himself noted that the terrorists apparently knew everything already about this hiding place, too.
An American security team should have been sent in to take out the ambassador and the others in a competent, professional manner rather than trusting Libyans who were: a) street guys a year ago who have had no training and experience, as well as b) deeply penetrated by the enemy force that simply could not be trusted. Remember that the on-site Libyan security forces simply ran away when the attack came.
Let’s be clear. Libya was the only Arabic-speaking country — maybe Iraq a few months ago — where the United States could have taken over protection without any political consequences. It is a real client state. And its security forces, being so new and so fully penetrated by the enemy, are probably the least competent. In contrast, when they let you get beaten up or overrun in Egypt, that’s on purpose.
So I wonder whether a serious investigation would discover that Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton decided to show trust in Muslim allies — make them feel better about themselves, prove the United States wasn’t a bully but a real nice friend — and that led to the deaths of the Americans.
Remember Libya is a country where U.S. forces could operate freely if they wanted to do so, and easily settle any Libyan government complaints later.
Forgive me if I am wrong, but how else to explain what happened? If this view is correct, the deeply disastrous assumptions that have guided Obama Middle East policy have just resulted in the deaths of several U.S. diplomats and soldiers.
Gmar Chatima Tova, Prof. Rubin.
One small note re the two US security personnel killed with Ambassador Stevens. To the best of my knowledge, they were both former USN SEALs who were with the State Department’s security-services bureau, and not US Marines. (One of the 2 killed, Glen Doherty, was extensively written up in the MA papers where I live.)
I think that a USMC detachment arrived a short time after the initial assault and slaughter, and led the extraction of the other State employees.
You are correct and I have fixed this briefly on the first paragraph and you are also correct on the second paragraph. Thanks, Mr. Alexander.
Also, for future reference, Marines are not solders, neither are SEALs, no matter who they are trying to protect.
If they are not soldiers, then what are they?
1. a person who serves in an army; a person engaged in military service.
2. an enlisted man or woman, as distinguished from a commissioned officer: the soldiers’ mess and the officers’ mess.
3. a person of military skill or experience: George Washington was a great soldier.
4. a person who contends or serves in any cause: a soldier of the Lord.
5. Also called button man. Slang . a low-ranking member of a crime organization or syndicate.
I’d say if you’re not wanting to call them a soldier, then it’s because you have some “it’s not a rifle, it’s a gun” semantics argument. Every MARINE I’ve ever met considers himself a soldier in the sense in which it is commonly used.
Every Marine I know says “Don’t call me a soldier; soldiers are in the Army.”
Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, Marines, and Coast Guardsmen.
Sorry, but those are how they are identified across the services.
It’s still in paragraph #10 twice.
No, that sounds about right. We are operating with a college freshman mentality here. “Let’s let the Libyans handle security, it’ll show we trust them, and they’ll like us and it’ll boost their self-esteem.”
Remember, everyone gets trophies now-a-days. To make someone earn respect, honor, or trust is very mean.
But I thought it was NASA’s job to raise islam’s self esteem.(sarc/off)
Hey, if it wern’t for Muslim scientists designing Mars rovers back in the tenth century, we wouldn’t even be there!! (sarc/on)
hmm that reminds me of the misguided attempts in school to not hurt any student’s feelings by saying they failed. be nice and let the failure continue. this time the failure costs lives and is just as stupid as not identifying the student’s problems and helping rectify it.
Increase self esteem, eh? And why would it be more effective in Libya than in our public schools? How’s that working in Chicago? The very definition of insanity.
Also regardless, whether Marines or privatized Seals, were they ever allowed to do their job? Not.
The analysis on Libya has the clarion ring of truth to it. Take a bunch of arrogant college frauds like Samantha Power or Obama, people who have never made a payroll, defended their nation, or worked in McDonalds, nurse them on fruitcake theories about how the world should be, nourish them on a smorgasbord of anti-Americanism, anti-capitalism, and anti-white, anti-European, anti-Colonialism fraud, and then place them in the most awesome positions of power in the world today, and what do you get?
Such frauds would produce a steady stream of sewage, lies, and predictable propaganda to create the milieu which they saught, as if that’s how you do it… Smoke, mirrors, polls, messaging, and slavish devotion to dogma. But what is far worse, they’d also concoct debacles like Fast & Furious to undermine their despised 2d Amendment, they’d say the worst domestic terrorism threat is not from Muslims, (who’ve hatched and waged many dozens of terrorist attacks on our soil since 9/11), but the “Extreme Right” (that is, anyone to the right of Trotsky). We would see them side with the haters of free speech, we’d see them abuse the levers of power to ram through unpopular legislation because they just know what’s best.
Collossal hubris.
Not to mention that I believe that those from the Samantha Power/Susan Rice line of thinking have a healthy envy of The Shari’ah, and empathize with the Muslim world because they have a healthy respect for a Totalitarian Birth-to-Death system which demands absolute unquestioning submission and proscribes the penalties of special taxes, slavery, and death to those who do not submit.
This makes Islamic Fundamentalists kindred spirits to them, if only they didn’t have to believe in Old Man Allah.
Kindred spirits indeed. Each willing to cynically exploit the other, and each arrogant enough to think they’ll annihilate the other after everyone else is “pacified”. Lefties are too dogmatic and fanatical about their own faith to comprehend that the Muslims have been doing this fascism thing for 1400 years. Experts in terrorism, which is really just Islamic crowd control, they bite in and rarely let go. Only a few nations in history have fought and dug their way out of Islam’s mind prison. Compare that to the commies. They might murder tens of millions, but in the end they just don’t have what it takes to destroy and then hold. Islam is rabid. It never lets go.
And early on, recall the scattered reports, apparently from Marine blogs, that the American guards protecting the consulate were prevented from having ammo for their weapons. State dept. bosses so decreed, it was claimed. Later, no we didn’t, was the reply. So the story died. Somebody lied. Americans died.
Administration fog buried the story. So for-gedaboudit, voters!
Actually, you’ll remember that Obama worked at a Baskin Robbins in Hawaii when he was 16 — that’s why he has a Connecticut SSN.
Ok with the Egypt analysis. I am conviced that Barry’s right about the Egyptian authorities knowing about the breach in advance. The hoisting of the “shehada” was symbolic of the victory of jihad. Of course, the MB did not want bloodshed.
With Libya it is a bit different. I think Stevens was overconfident on account of his fluency in Arabic and the personal network he had built in the country over time. He simply did not grasp the risks he was taking moving around with minimum security. Most likely this was known to the eventual assailants who were looking for the opportune moment and cover to target him. Their travelling to the second location (safe house) in search of more blood (hostages ?) bespeaks of a well organized operation.
“overconfident on account of his fluency in Arabic and the personal network he had built in the country over time.”
I don’t think “overconfident” is the case … clueless about Islam is the culprit. Stevens did not have a martial mentality either; only a person that is deluded would happily walk around thinking that Muslims that he knew were not capable of the old throat-slit ploy right when he thought they were “moderate”.
Islam is a helluva thing; pure evil that works on the minds of men, plotting the demise of everything pure and good … how else can you explain slaughtering women and children on a daily basis in homage and sacrifice to Mo’ ????
Suddenly, the security guys disappear; because if they didn’t they faced certain death from those perpetrating the actual attack. FEAR; hey, it works.
Mr. Rubin … I think you’re right on this one.
I agree that Stevens certainly may have had a fatal case of clientitis.
How hard is it really to ID the “safe house”? Just follow the car you saw pull away from the target zone and call the location in to the local commander when it stops and everyone goes inside. Its not rocket science, and it doesn’t require that the enemy penetrate your security.
NOTE: I do think they penetrated security. Its not really that hard given the conditions in Libya. I just don’t think penetration is absolutely required to figure out where the “safe house” is.
I don’t want to cheat so I will comment first and then look at the answers. Islam happened. That’s the simple answer. I have no clue as to the surprising answer as nothing Muslims do surprises me.
Isn’t this guy what they call a troll? And do we have to suffer his comments?
I am all for free speech but twhere is the line?
“by radical anti-American forces”
What the hell are “radical anti-American forces”? Are you swallowing Susan Rice’s Bravo Sierra that most Muslims their love us?
theirthereAgreed, FC
And isn’t radical Anti-American” forces redundant?
It is to me.
“I have heard some commentators bash Obama for making a gaffe in saying Egypt was no longer an ally.”
Obama meant to say England was no longer an ally. He hates Winston “Islam is more dangerous in a man than Rabies is in a dog” Churchill, you know. obama just got a little confused being as how England and Egypt both begin with an E and are followed by other letters of the alphabet.
“So I wonder whether a serious investigation would discover that Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton decided to show trust in Muslim allies — make them feel better about themselves, prove the United States wasn’t a bully but a real nice friend — and that led to the deaths of the Americans.”
Of course this was it. It’s the same as our “Partners in Peace” policy in Afcrapistan where our Generals want the members of the Afcrapistaan army and police to feel we trust them so they let them murder American troops.
It’s called “The Petraeus Doctrine”.
It’s actually a slow descent into national suicide.
Slow? It’s really moving pretty quickly now. And it’s the whole West, not just us. But we’re leading the retreat from behind.
It really feels a lot like August 1939.
The question now is where shall we all convene for the revolution?
One more thing being excreted from America:
INTELLIGENCE from the top down.
Do we know with a certainty, or do we NOT know with certainty, whether the report is accurate – or not – that the Marines/Seal team (whoever they were) DID or DID NOT have ammunition, i.e. “bullets”?? Where do we verify what the truth is? I cannot find it anywhere.
We know for certain that the Marines at the Embassy in Cairo had no ammunition. We may never know hat the deal in Libya was.
If we get a Romney administration, we may have an full investigation. But with the many many more pressing problems we are facing, I’m guessing we’ll never know. Or until the first Obama insider publishes a book of insider secrets.
Not likely. As a former Naval person I assure you that the military is strong on following procedure. The officer in charge of that detachment, upon receiving orders ( being fragged) into a combat zone or any place with a potential for violence would have checked his men’s ammo load outs. If he felt they were insufficient or under standard he would have reported his unit “unfit for combat” and explained that they had no ammo. That would have gone up the chain of command and some supply officer would either get them their ammo or go to jail. No civilian political appointee has the authority to overide. A higher officer that ordered that unit into combat anyway would go to prison.
My thought is somebody watched a re-run of Aliens 2. Hollywood.
They missed the best part of Aliens 2;
“I say we pull out and nuke ‘em from orbit. It’s the only way to make sure.”
- FO Ripley.
I like the cut of your jib.
Yes the old liberal “self-esteem” and it’s partner “respect”. In the schools you see it all the time, GIVE the kids self esteem. And these days SHOW the Muslims “respect”. Completely misses the point that you need to EARN self esteem and EARN respect for it to mean anything. Hip hop punk kids are always going on about “respect” but… Why should I respect you? What have you done? Who the # are you?
I don’t respect Jews because they demanded that I do. I rsepect them because they are 0.2% of the world’s population and have earned 20% of the Nobel prizes (among many other reasons.) That must drive the Muslims nuts. And I mean that literally.
My guess is that the average Jew has 10-20 IQ points on the average goy. But then again, they voted for O by over 80% … perhaps proving beyond the shadow of a doubt that IQ and acuity are not the same thing.
Even now it’s expected that something like 59% of Jews will vote for O. Even now. An argument that high IQ and insanity are related.
“Forgive me if I am wrong, but how else to explain what happened? If this view is correct, the deeply disastrous assumptions that have guided Obama Middle East policy have just resulted in the deaths of several U.S. diplomats and soldiers.”
You are not wrong. In fact you understate tremendously as the same thing has been going on in Afcrapistan for years and the only difference is that in Afcrapistan a whole lot more Americans have been sacrificed on this bloody alter of hubris. Again, it’s called “The Petraeus Doctrine”.
Indeed, the very concept of war, which is to break the enemy’s ability to fight, whether spiritually, financially, or by just beating the tar out of them or a combination of all three, is lost on the left.
The ‘tards on the right are also guilty of acquiescing to fighting a “nice” war where we go to kill and destroy but also with the intention of not offending the enemy. Ludicrous is the word most people are looking for.
The first example of this was Korea where Truman stopped Doug from trundling north of the 38th parallel, resulting in the half-century stalemate we have today with a schoolboy dictator/leader as the current “mayor of turd-town”. The wall shouldn’t be at the 38th parallel but at the border of China/Korea. Something about Lincoln…a nation divided against itself cannot stand?
The issue of all-out war against China is debatable.
Yet, I do find it a legitimate premise to just use remote vehicles to punish bad nations. ie: Gadaffy pulled some stunts, the Reagan administration sent in F-111′s to bomb their turf and he shut up for awhile. It’s remarkably effective Pavlovian behavior modification. But even in the early 80′s there were those who said, “OOOOh…..we mustn’t offend the Libyans.”
What good is the power-to-protect if it’s not used to protect the very people it’s for?
Answer: None
We have allowed lefty group-think to hamstring our ability to protect US citizens but though I feel horribly about the military who were killed, I’m not that choked up about Stevens who was a fellow traveler on the kumbaya bus-to-hell who was probably shocked that anyone in the region would want to ever do him any harm. I therefore use it as the sterling example of “feeding the alligator, hoping it will eat them last” mentality.
Somewhere in the 60′s the US went way off the rails with some misguided level of moral superiority. It took hold, set its claws and won’t let go no matter how many times it’s been proven to be grossly in error. The morally superior simply chalk it up to “deserved for all the evil the US has done in the world” which emanates from the mouths of people who understand neither religious fanaticism nor colonialism, yet who decry the former while excoriating the latter.
In other words, stupid people doing stupid things which bring us to stupid results and dead people.
Is there no other way for the pentagon’s generals to worship their high gods of career and political correctness, and to show their devotion to the most holy, and never to be questioned, doctrine of COIN (bowing to Muslims version), than to continue to wantonly squander the lives and limbs of thousands of their own Soldiers and Marines on the alter of their own hubris?
demsey is a water cooler general. he has very little real combat experience and a whole lot of experience in kissing up.
The American people elected a “community organiser” as President. Is it any wonder things are spiraling out of control, Middle East imploding, America’s enemys “winning”, Federal Reserve printing the currency to Zimbucks, NO budget for the last 3 years, crapping over the rule of law and constitution…
I hope to god there is a change come November or the United States is toast..
It has been reported that Hillary signed in 2011 sweeping changes in embassy security. Authorizing that only foreign nationals would be used as security personnel, which jives with Mr.Rubin’s speculation as to why the Libyans were in control. If that is true it leaves one to wonder just how stupid are these abassadors and embassy staffers. US forces lost their lives for what? trying to protect these State Dept. clowns in the continuing appeasement in the name of tolerance toward a religion that shows none. Obama should get off his football watching butt, which he won’t, and show some backbone, which he does’nt have, and rearrange his so-called Kill List, if there is such a thing, and send in the drones. There will come a time when the world will have to reckon with Islam on a global scale. And in the name of sanity and self-preservation it will be forced to turn the religion of peace into pieces.
Reality Check: Does Libya Attacks Change U.S. Foreign Policy Moving Forward?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shaZxAKe65g&feature=youtu.be
When Hillary is not speaking, and she is not speaking at all, you can bet she is in the middle of whatever went wrong. Boobily is trying to cover for Hillary, because he can’t afford to let her start spilling the beans about most of his other stupid mistakes. What a ridiculous President. What a ridiculous Secretary of State. What an embarrassment for all of the fools who elected Boobily. They better get it right in November or this is what we will put up with for several generations to come. And where is Romney? Sheesh. ABO2012
Theory: The U.S. is withdrawing from the middle east, which appears that it is being thrown out, as they are being killed in the retreat. The power vacuum can not last. Therefore, the entrance is opening for the Russians and/or Chinese to control the mideast. They will not play nice guys to burning embassies and killing diplomats. The ramifications are enormous.
We should just make a deal with the Russians and the Chinese. We get the Saudi oil fields as financial compensation for 9/11 and they get the rest of the Muslims oil. If the Muslims don’t like it, tough camel urine.
You know what they say: “If you’re being run out of town, get out in front and act as though you’re leading a parade!”
actually, an American team was helicoptered in to save the Ambassador, and it was aided by a Libyan special ops group who were quickly sent to help evacuate the embassy.Reuters article.
The problem is that Wired reported a gamer told his message board that there was going to be an attack, but that apparently no help was requested at that time, two hours before the attack. Where was the ambassador at that time? why didn’t the ambassador promptly go to the safe house? Why did he suffocate in the “safe room” (according to later reports)? Why didn’t they evacuate right away? Similarly, the “safe house” was promptly attacked with mortars, suggesting a major security breach had occurred.
There is a lot more in the story coming out in the European and African press.
“There is a lot more in the story coming out in the European and African press.”
Wouldn’t it be nice if we had a press.
Do you think this administration might have the same mind set as Valerie?
Valerie Jarrett Obama’s closest aide is Shirazi
http://www.iranian.com/main/singlepage/2008/valerie-jarrett
Hillary Clinton should have resigned on 9/15/2012. Her resignation or firing should have been the President’s first order. There is no honor here. This President is consumed with his own re election and holding on to power. There is nothing else that matters. Dead is dead. Hillary stays And there is no Middle East policy, strategy or plan that will benefit our country.
Ambassador Stevens subscribed wholeheartedly to Obama’s policy, His determination to display his complete trust in the new Lybian leadership played right into the hands of al Qaida. His assissination was the direct result of his dipomaatic naivety and abandonment of commonsense. and entirely predictable.
On the Egyptian front, they’re attacking the Sinai peacekeepers (which include Americans) now: http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=285148
I wonder if Obama’s watching Monday Night Football. I’m sure he wouldn’t miss a chance to watch Peyton Manning.
Peyton is not having a good night so far, so Obama might as well get to work. Oops! WORK? Not a chance.
Excellent comment, Mr. Barca.
As for the Suez, wait till the next time we need to get a war fleet through it.
The Brotherhood will put up a sign: “Closed.”
Hamilcar B. would have known what to do.
Didn’t Billary say she is out of there after this president’s term. If true, it can’t happen soon enough.
People say she’ll run for prez in 2016.
Let’s hope so. Especially if she runs on her record as SecState.
Additionally, and what strangely works to the advantage of the conservatives is that Hitlery and D’oh-bama categorically hate one another. In a world where the Secretary of State and the President must work very closely together, these two don’t and won’t because of their mutual hatred for one-another while the United States as a whole suffers for their intransigence.
Add to that that they are both horrendously angry people and most likely both closeted gays, former (or still) recreational drug users with Hitlery showing all the signs of alcoholism on top of it all, well…
Gee, kids, ain’t it a fun trip?
The two of them are above their pay grade. Neither are qualified by previous experience for the jobs they hold.
And lately, Hillary reminds me of David Crosby without the mustache. I tried to listen to her give a speech and only only made it through about ten minutes before thoughts of the garage door opener, rope, and a stool crossed my mind.
Might interest everyone to know that Halter Marine, Pascagouls, Miss is beginning sea-trials on 4 state-of-the-art Stealth Fast Missle Craft (FMC) boats we built for the Egyptian Navy: equipped with 8 ea ship-killing Harpoon missles, among other armaments. Will be REALLY nice toys for the Muslim Brotherhood to play with to employ against either Israel or the US. What utter fools we are. NATURALLY, the Obamassiah’s administration is not having ANY second-thoughts whatsoever about delivering these deadly craft to a country our Dear Leader has just admitted is no longer our “ally” in the region. What could possibly EVER go wrong..
Obama is doing exactly what is in the interest of his people. But his people are not those who built the American Dream but those who Frantz Fanon wrote about. Do we need our President to champion the foreign oppressed, victims of ancient tyrannies we share little in common with and but little of the guilt, while what mean portion of gratitude to be allotedfor their gains might be rightfully awarded to the Capitalist West, even as slight as those gains have been? Because of that I doubt any good will come of Obama’s intended treason, so no true American should vote it any support, or countenance any moment of its continuance.
P.S. I never thought we could do worse in State than Madelyn AllBright. But My God! Hillary! As Mel Brooks Might Say appropriately enough. Wooof!
My apologies, I committed the sin of speaking ill of the dead earlier, in a deleted comment, and should have known better.
Brother, welcome back. Momma said there’ll be days like this.
Greetings:
To paraphrase Will Rogers, all I know is what I see on TV. And Egypt’s Mr. Morsi seems to me to running an Islamaniac version of “good cop–bad cop”. No doubt, Mr. Morsi, not unlike every other Islamic ruler, has his basic “what can I get from the “kuffar” today list” tucked into one of his rapidly filling pockets for easy access. Whether its money, guns, a blind sheik or two, there always something that the kuffar might think worthy of some ameliorating emollient. So, out come the even thuggier islamo-thugs and you get to make your choice as in “Me, or them?”. Now, being cut from somewhat similar but less pretty cloth than our own President Obama, there’s a bit of irony involved as Mr. Obama has on at least one occasion revealed himself by telling some bankers that he was all there was “between them and the pitchforks”.
Midnight at the bazaar.
Morsi will get as much as he can out of O before hoisting the jihadi flag. Reminds me of Castro and Carter circa 1980.
To hand over the security of American diplomats to anyone other than US Marines is and should be a crime. Period. The Marines have traditionally provided security for embassies and diplomats and there is no reason on God’s green earth why the Marines should not have protected our diplomats IN FORCE in Libya. Somebody at the State Department messed up big time. But don’t expect any quick answers from the FBI or the Justice Department. Remember, these are the same people investigating Fast and Furious. Anybody like the way that investigation is turning out?
In a rational world, the glaring error of not providing proper security at embassies in Libya and Egypt would be resulting in heads rolling at the State Department. However, we’re not seeing that so I don’t think we (or at least The Powers That Be) are living in a rational world. In fact, I strongly suspect that no heads are rolling because the brilliant idea of leaving our embassies unprotected in the Middle East originated at, or very close to, the top of the chain of command, either with Obama or Hilary Clinton or one of their top advisers. When the problem originates that high, you simply CAN’T fire the culprit so they take the standard approach taken by high flyers everywhere: you stall for time and hope that things blow over on their own. If that doesn’t work, I’m sure they’ll find lesser figures to throw under the bus.
If Obama and Clinton had even an ounce of real character, they’d both resign now. Naturally, that will not happen so we need to follow Clint Eastwood’s advice and let Obama go. He just isn’t working out.
I bet Huma’s family told Hilary all would be well, only if you show confidence in our brethrens ability to protect you.
Obama to Hilary: If the Muslim Brotherhood said it is so then it must be so, off to Vegas, Cha Ching.
There is a lot we do not know. But we can rule out competency by the DoS, DoD, and CIA. Apparently every leader in the middle east knew something would happen on 9-11, and told Washington. This information was not judged “actionable” so our embassies were not notified. Concurrently Stevens was told by local Libyans to expect trouble. His conduct, and whereabouts is unknown, even after a time for forensic examination of his remains have passed. We know that no effective armed resistance, by US and/or Libyan defenders, was attempted.
Thus we can also conclude that vital facts are being with held from the American voter. For several reasons, it is most difficult to believe our leaders, or MSM. I choose the kindness interpretation: incompetence; there are other, more sinister options.
This is unfolding like the 9-11 stovepiping commission, which if true, means that tens of billions spent on the corrections, did not work. There is no competency in this disaster. If the leaders of Islam, and other watching national powers come to this conclusion, the planet may experience another world war. Pax Americana is dying. What will replace it?
No, Mr Rubin, in this case I don’t buy your argument re. the Obama policy on Libya. You are just extrapolating from the conventional view that Obama basically wants to “make nice” with Muslims, perhaps hoping there will be no foreign policy crisis to distract from his domestic agenda. Remember, this (9/11) is what threw the Bush presidency off-track.
No, Obama is far too astute a player to treat “Muslims” as a monolith. Not even the Arabs do, despite the “religionary conceit” adopted by them ( in much the same way as writers adopt a “literary conceit”, in the sense they read more into reality than reality itself warrants).
Go back to Gaddhafi. He started his rule as more Nasser than Nasser, more Saddam than Saddam. The Lockerbie bombing (let’s not forget the French airliner that he bombed just as year after Pan Am) started Gaddhafi’s slide. The UN sanctions of 1992 hurt him no end. Yet he blustered on. He even thought that surrending the Libyan suspects to the tender mercies of The Hague would buy him brownie points with the West.
It was the invasion of Iraq which destroyed his pan-Islamic ambitions. He not only surrendered his nuclear infrastructure to Bush but also paid “blood money” to the Lockerbie victims. (To understand the power that America had under Bush, just look at the sheer monetary difference between what Gaddhafi paid to them as opposed to what he paid to the French airliner victims, even tho 170 passengers and crew died in the French bombing).
However, and this is where Obama comes in, tho Gaddhafi lost his Arab world cred, he still ruled Libya. He early understood the Islamic threat from Benghazi. So did the late Ambassador Stevens. In 2008, Stevens, then a deputy Chief of Mission in Libya, red-flagged the Afgahn Arabs congregating in eastern Libya. His diplomatic missives on this even found their way into the Wikileak dumps of 2010-2011.
Gaddhafi sent his army to take out these Islamists in Benghazi. And what did Obama do? He stopped them in their tracks.
A conventional meme about Obama leading from behind has emerged after Libya. What people forget that at the crucial stage, the opening of hostilities, Obama was very much leading from the front. Not just militarily but also diplomatically. At the UN, he was able to twist Russian and Chinese arms enough to get his UN Resolution. He doesn’t much exert himself with these two veto-wielders on Syria, does he? Funnily enough, in both the Libyan and Syrian cases, he has Arab League support.
After Benghazi, Obama sat back, even asserting that US had no strategic concerns with Libya. He let the Europeans own Libya. (Notice how France and Britain have nothing to say about “owning” Libya nowadays).
So, what’s going on here, Mr Rubin?
Hmmm. The stones are a bit rough-edged, but they do fit. I, too, reject the notion that Obama is a mere idiot.
This was not an article about U.S. policy and Libya. There is not one word in this policy about U.S. general policy in Libya but only about the security issues involved in the killing of the ambassador and ultimately five other Americans. This article is rather obviously accurate: Why was the ambassador’s security under the control of inexperienced Libyan forces that were highly incompetent and penetrated so as to have an evacuation through a heavily armed set of attackers.
Smells like a set-up…has been since January 25th, 2011.
“What Really Happened in Egypt and Libya”
Clinton got a U.S. ambassador raped, tortured, and murdered. Surely she will now resign her post.
Not a chance. Dead bodies don’t phase her. Remember poor Vince Foster and his mysterious demise.
This is the first time I visited this site and from the comments on various topics it appears that an Albert Einstein quote fits best;
“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice.”
Conspiracy Theory anyone?
Mr Rubin is not positing a conspiracy theory. He is speculating about how events occurred based on the (flawed) ideology of 1960′s generation moral superiority-thinking.
The basis of which is the “make love not war” and all that schtick which has a certain ecumenical aspect to it in the religion of the left. That being it’s the US who’s the bully and we must apologize and repent for all our past (imagined) sins of “colonialism” and “stealing the world’s resources” while the poor suffer.
Although both Hitlery and D’oh-bama both believe this and are insufferable ideologues to that effect, it’s the only area where they actually do get along. In every other aspect they despise each other. A meeting with them is more of a battle of wills than an ironing out of procedure and goals, most likely. Hitlery is the shrill, angry feminazi warrior while D’oh-bama is the also equally angry put-upon spoiled child. Fun times.
But Mr Rubin has made a salient and very valid estimation on the mechanisms behind the failure of the US to protect its diplomats abroad. No conspiracy there. Until a tell-all book is written, as supposed in an above post, we may never know. Although every reason is there for any thinking person to make the assessment that Mr Rubin has.
Hey Kid, go back to your room and play with your Obama and Hillary inaction figures and let the grown-ups discuss the events of the day among themselves. And no, you do not get a trophy for just showing up,I don’t care what your teacher says. As for the Einstein quote and your conspiracy theory jab, old Albert had some theories of his own that science was unable to accept at first, it took time to prove him right. Lies come quick, the truth needs time.
I can’t help feeling that the Obama administration’s whole approach to the middle east is very ‘female’. It’s all about co-operation, trust, working with people etc. all the qualities we hear that women bring to the table when talking about executive appointments in business, for example.
That may be fine for the workplace, but that doesn’t work when dealing with Muslims. Ever. It never has done in 1400 years. They only understand overwhelming strength, and they respect it, especially in their enemies. They ride roughshod over ‘hopey, changey, why can’t we just talky?’ Anyone who tried this in the last 1400 years has been run-through with a scimitar…do you honestly think these muslim countries give a sh*t what Clinton thinks, even as she sits in front of them? I imagine they feel insulted from the off that the US has sent a woman to deal with them – that’s their problem, of course, but don’t think it won’t affect the outcome.
Look who’s really in control here – Power, Rice, Clinton, Jarrett, Napolitano, not to mention the wife. Throw in a man who was raised almost solely by females, and tell me why I’m wrong.
“I can’t help feeling that the Obama administration’s whole approach to the middle east is very ‘female’. It’s all about co-operation, trust, working with people etc. all the qualities we hear that women bring to the table when talking about executive appointments in business, for example.”
No surprise there. Val Jarrett and ‘Chelle are the only two advisors Obama listens to. Anyone who actually knows anything has long since been run off. Obama bears many outward signs of being ****y-whipped and possessing a grating lack of self-confidence. Nothing about him projects strength except his snotty condescention toward Republicans. What strength he can claim comes from the Chicago knee-cappers that Jarrett commands.
I will tell you why you are wrong. Golda Meir, Indira Ghandi, Margaret Thatcher, Angela Merkel – who dont fit your stereotype of women. Not to mention Sarah Palin, the moose hunter.
Obama was partly raised by his Indonesian stepfather and his maternal grandfather.
And its too late guys, we women – right wing, left wing or centrist,
are not going back into the kitchen.
But, surely, you’ll still bake cookies for us? There’s nothing more yummy than home-made food. Men can’t cook for nuts.
If Obama had women of the quality you mention, we wouldn’t be in this mess with the middle east. Those you mention are rare in politics, unfortunately. I would swap Thatcher for many US presidents in a heart beat.
Interesting most of the women you mention are from another era entirely. What’s wrong with women today? I’ll give you Palin, but I can’t comment on Bachmann, as I don’t know much about her. Sorry, you’re not having Frau Merkel – she’s hopeless. Meir and Thatcher would eat her for breakfast.
Obama is surrounded by women advisers regarding the Muslim world. I’m surprised that NOBODY has mentioned Dalia Mogahed !! She was the one that adivised “engagement” with the MB in Egypt (remember the Cairo speech?). And Hillarity has an MB mole working alongside her; Huma Abedin.
Obama’s family are firmly in the hands of these women; bet on it.
The White House: Where women don’t take NO for an answer !!!! Heh Heh!!
Husky, I made similar points on a Andrew McCarthy blog yesterday. I stated under a different “nom de guerre” that Rep. Bachmann’s + 4 Reps’ letters to the IGs is critical and more a National Security Concern than N. Africa because we can alway go back and use kinetic power overseas; what do we do about the threat in DC? I recommend people go back and read Judge Bork’s “Sloughing towards Gomorrah” book about the 60′s Generation (They are in control now of the Governments (FED/State/Loc; MSM Press; Legal System; etc.) Yes some are “conservative” but if they were in the 60s they were too scared to fight for what they believed as are “conservatives” today.
Have their been any autopsies performed on the ambassador and his men?
What happened to the seven men that mysteriously showed up at the Libyan airport?
Upon reviewing Real Clear Politics yesterday, almost every lefty hack has moved on from the Middle East stories to big troubles in Romney campaign. Nothing to see here folks, move along.
Re: the canary in the coal mine analogy – the recent attacks on the Egyptian embassy also reminded me of the attack on the Israeli embassy when Israeli security guards were trapped in a room while the mobs rampaged through the building. The guards could have been slaughtered when the mobs reached their room. In the knick of time, the Egyptians were persuaded to send commandos to rescue them, but it was close.
And watch the Sinai. Even Mubarak didnt find it easy to control the Beduins there. There are lots of weapons, Islamists, money, semi-chaos. There are 1500 international peacekeeprs stationed there and its also a convenient place from which to launch terrorist attacks on Southern Israel (right across the border)
The Ansar Al-Sharia guys who attacked and killed AMB S. + 3 in a pre-planned military operation is a Muslim Brotherhood / Al Qaeda Aligned Movement and they have all spent time honing their skills in Iraq, Syria, and Afghanistan. When the Libyan Civil War broke out in early 2011 they returned in mass. Now, many of these same AAS guys also happen to be from the Eastern Libya Tribes and pretended to be Anti-Ghaddafi “Rebels” who Obama / Cameron (UK) / Sarkozy (France) helped train in military tactics! I don’t know how early US CIA and/or SOF IPB guys were covertly infiltrated into Libya but the UK press reported that UK 22 SAS “smash” teams were on the ground in Libya at least three weeks prior to the UN Security Council Resolution setting up the No-Fly Zone. They mainly targeted for the NATO aircraft but reports came out that they also trained rebels! BLOWBACK from OP Odessy Dawn! Thank GOD we are not in Syria – at least I hope I am right. Reminds me of blowback from Clinton’s Balkans adventure – AQ trained Bosnian Muslims in tactics too!
I see the media has Romney backpedaling again. WE will have to save this country from Communism. WE will either do it at the polls in November or WE will have to physically overthrow them before 2020. WE still have that choice. ABO2012
…”A senior official of the biggest militia in Benghazi, the February 17th Brigade, told CNN that he had warned US diplomats of a rapidly deteriorating security situation in Benghazi three days before the attack. “The situation is frightening, it scares us,” he said he had stressed during the meeting. Mr Stevens had been back in Libya for only a short time before US security officials decided it would be safe to make the journey to Benghazi during the anniversary of the 9/11 attacks. The British consulate in the city was shut after an ambush of a convoy carrying Dominic Asquith, the UK ambassador, in which his bodyguard were injured. The UN and International Committee of the Red Cross offices had been bombed and there had been a spate of political assassinations.
However, Ms Rice denied the Benghazi attack was pre-planned…”
what you are missing Barry is that obama doesn’t care if one two three or a hundred ambassadors get killed.
obama welcomed and encouraged the uprisings in the middle east ..as he encourages the occupy people.
obama wants a level of chaos and is agitating for it. as a community organiser is how he is running the white house. like the scorpion and the frog …it’s his nature.
The same Egyptian group planned and executed in both Egypt and Libya. The Egyptians have been taking advantage of their neighbor’s weaknesses and disorder and can move freely about the country, at least the east side.
They merely demonstrated in Egypt, saving face for the MB rulers there but faced no such restraints in Libya. That serves to further destablize Libya to Egypt’s advantage.
The president of Libya has broadly hinted at this explanation and it rings true.
The Foreign Service Staff Officer killed in the attack, Sean Smith, was not the Public Affairs Officer (PAO) but an Information Management Specialist (IMS).
IMSers handle all of the State Department’s communications matters, e.g., radio, phone, computers, etc. Mr. Smith was setting up a comm link with the embassy in Tripoli when he was murdered. The attack must have been sudden because he was unable to destroy the classified files in his temporary, and unsecured, office.
The lack of security precautions in this incident was unconscionable.
It’s not the job of the Marines to provide personal security for US diplomats. The Marine’s primary duty while guarding an embassy is to protect state secrets not the diplomats. If under attack priorities go to destroying classified documents and communications devices. Ambassadors have personal bodyguards who are State Department employees or private contractors-mostly ex-military. Also the facility in Libya was a consulate, not an embassy. Consulates are far less secure than embassies by their very nature and are often staffed largely by non Americans.
The ambassador’s personal safety is the State Department’s responsibility not the Marine Corps. Stevens’s personal security detail was inadequate, his itinerary had been badly compromised and consulate security was lax. As ambassador he had the final say in all three items. It’s next to impossible to guard someone who wants to expose himself to as many locals as possible as part of what he sees as his job. Shakespeare comes to mind.
Caesar was ambitious: If it were so, it was a grievous fault; And grievously hath Caesar answer’d it.
So now we hear that the two former SEALs were there not as Personal Security Detail (PSD) for AMB S. but were there as “green badgers” trying to track down MANPADs and other high threat weapons. So what? I want to know about whether the “FEB 17 Brigade” alerted the Ansar Al-Sharia (AQAM) guys or had infiltrated the Militia (my guess the later). If your Obama Admin why not just come out and say we had a mission to recover MANPADs and it was exposed by the Terrorists and they acted on SEP11 to cover their assissnation operation for revenge of the Al-Liby Predator strike? Either way Obama is a traitor and incompetent boob!
This may be a plausible explanation as well. http://www.theblaze.com/stories/glenn-beck-on-libya-u-s-consulate-attack-youre-being-set-up-america/
I would not at all be surprised to learn that the individual(s) planning, organizing and leading the attack on our Libyan consulate is a former Gtmo detainee released by the Obama administration.
I have written extensively on all this over at my blog, The Diplomad 2.0. Based on my 34 years in the Foreign Service, I would say the screw up was major and the blame begins, unfortunately, with the Ambassador and goes right up to the SecState and the NSC Director and all sorts of others in between.
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The country is still volatile, it is not a remote past what took place, the people are just having their first taste of a so-called freedom too alien for them, yet loyalists do still thrive, no not for Qaddafi, but for power-in-waiting, attempting a break-in into the former set-up….
Obama’s strategists ought not to have overlooked hazards of this kind, for it seems they did. One should not bring guards-down unless a commander-in-chief is sleazily executing duties in protecting the lives of his troops, diplomats and people, i.e. quite different in relation to his rhetorics, yes, just rhetorics “to protect the lives of the nation’s citizens”.
Thank you so much for the article.