Come Together: A Plea to Annoy Christians and Witches Alike!
So when I saw that old Bill Maher video of Christine O’Donnell talking about her dabbling days with “witchcraft” and blood and Satanism, well… I knew that in that video she was one of two things: Either she was full of it, or that she hadn’t been dealing with actual Wiccans. But whatever — no harm, no foul. If I were being held to account for all the claims I made when I was twenty, well, I’d blush bright red and leave the public scene forever.*
As an agnostic, I’m not taking any sides — or choosing any gods — in this debate. To each their own, “and harm ye none,” as any good Wiccan would tell you.
All of which is just a long way of saying: Relax.
If what O’Donnell said 11 years ago is true, then she wasn’t dealing with Wiccans, but with actual Satanists. And she has — inadvertently and through the “good” graces of Bill Maher — given Wiccans a platform to explain what they’re really all about. I would encourage them to do so.
And if O’Donnell is being disingenuous, then Wiccans have an even bigger case to make, and one heck of a juicy target to take down in the process.
What we all should care about is precisely this: Is any given candidate a person of conviction, and is that conviction to cut Washington down to size? All else is superfluous. A candidate could believe in Caspar the Friendly Ghost, ancient astronauts, or that Mars Needs Women, for all I care — so long as they hold true to that core conviction that Washington must be cut down to size.
To my good Christian friends, I say: Forgive. Although I suspect that instruction is completely unnecessary. You folks take a lot of flak in the media, but on your core conviction, you almost always walk the walk. And God bless you for it.
To my good Wiccan friends, I say: Embrace. Embrace small government, because big government is a friend to minorities only so long as it’s convenient — witness how the Democrats ignore urban blacks’ pleas for school vouchers. But a small government is impotent to threaten your ways. Blessed be.
I hold no faith in magic. But the Wiccan Law of Return says, “All good that a person does to another returns threefold in this life; harm is also returned threefold.” That’s not a bad sentiment, and one Christians might recognize, in slightly different form, from Matthew 7:12 and Luke 6:31.
There’s some common ground here, where both sides could — and should — meet politically, if not spiritually. For that to happen, however, certain Christians (not nearly all of them) would have to drop their insistence that Wicca is equal to Satanism. And certain Wiccans (not nearly all of them, either) would have to abandon their childish liberalism.
In doing so, Christians and Wiccans both could come out ahead — and that kind of win-win deal is as American as mom, apple pie, and religious freedom.
*I would not really go into hiding. I have a highly underdeveloped sense of shame.
“certain Christians (not nearly all of them) would have to drop their insistence that Wicca is equal to Satanism.”
You don’t know much about the Bible, doya?
And you would be one of the Christians he’s referring to.
It’s logically impossible for the Bible to say anything about Wicca, since when the Bible was codified 1700 year ago Wicca didn’t exist.
There’s plenty of catch-alls though, that more than suffice to cover Wicca.
Wasn’t it in Exodus about not allowing a witch to live? The Bible is clear in both the Old and New Testaments that one should not practice “witchcraft” or “sorcery”. I don’t take such passages very seriously since I don’t believe that “magic” exists but it is clear that the practices of Wiccans would be disapproved of by the authors.
The word “witch” was used in the King James because James I had a serious hate on for witches. Which he believed in, believed were Satanists, and was determined to exterminate as quickly as he could. His using the term witch for what was better translated as necromancer or sorcerer was his way of giving himself a rationale for going after witches. In short, witchcraft had nothing to do with the Necromancer of Endor, who was your basic seer and competition for the priests of an early form of Judaism.
Let me put it this way, when the Old Testament was made to say that one shall not allow a witch to live it was made to lie. The Old Testament says nothing about witches good or bad. Witches were unknown in Old Testament times, and indeed the very word did not exist back then. Witchcraft as a mystical practice did not arise until much later.
Actually, the word should have been poisoner; however, according to my Conservative Judaism wife, there’s a secondary definition of “one who kills by hidden or occult means” and that’s the one King James’ committee latched onto. After all, when your boss has just been awarded the title “Defender of the Faith” for his scholarly proof that witchcraft is real….
Your post got me thinking so I Googled. It looks like there is debate as to whether the translation was wrong i.e. witch vs. poisoner vs maker of potions to do harm.
Here’s Wiki’s take
With regard to witches in the OT Deuteronomy 18:10-12 spells it out as clear as can be that “who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, 11 or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead” is detestable to God.
You’re not suggesting that is a mistranslations as well are you?
And regarding the claim that Wiccans aren’t witches, the Old English for witch is wicce (f) wicca (m). It’s actually unreasonable to think they aren’t witches.
Christine, btw, in her famous “I dabbled in witchcraft, statement was saying witchcraft was bad.
she never said she was a witch. The whole thing is silly. People are just reacting as the “media wants” them to. MAking a mountain out of a mole hill.
i’d rather a girl who dabbled in stupidity…than a Democrat “pet”.
If any believe witch craft is evil and can influence you, I have got beach front property in Montana for you. This whole debate sounds like it’s from the dark ages and unbelievable. What a freaking smoke screen!!!
Hmmmm.
“MAking a mountain out of a mole hill.”
So you’re suggesting we make a bridge out of her?
“When you enter the land the Lord your God is giving you, do not learn to imitate the detestable way of the nations there. Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead.”
Not to mention idolatry.
So yeah the bible doesn’t mention wicca…but if both witchcraft and wicca share a practice then the seperation is irrelevant.
That said:
I have my opinions. If you want it ask and if not don’t give me an opening.
You have your opinions and I do the same.
More than you, putz.
It is always difficult having socons as allies. They always got that moral hammer in waiting for their friends. A little more “judge not….” is in order my friend (way above), if you care to keep the coalition together.
Nope. I agree with Libertarians more than ninety percent of the time. In fact, I’m more Libertarian than many Libertarians on some issues.
And yet, if I speak of Fusion and fellow feeling and friendliness, I’m a statist theocrat. Basically Libertarians are opportunists who think being nice is a sign of weakness.
What a socon should do when they meet one is hit him with a stick, just once a day, and that will keep them focused on reality.
Harsh, I know, but what else can you do? Its a fact, the more hard core the socons are as a movement, the nicer libertarians will be to them.
How idiotic … If you were held accountable today for your sins of yesterday, you would have to be whipped to an inch of your life. The real truth is this incident makes her as qualified to be a Democrat as our old school doper President.
Wicca is NOT Satanism. It is however occultic. Its practice should still be avoided. As a Christian of nearly 40 years, I can tell you I have known Wiccans and they are as occultists go, pretty benign. Wicca IS witchcraft, a witchcraft that ancient Celts (being of Scots heritage myself) might recognize as Druidh-like. Herbalism, chanting, going to coven and worshipping skyclad (dat’s nekkit y’all) are all part of Druidh and Wiccan practice. Early Druidhism was nasty and violent in the British Isles. It was not uncommon for Celts to capture Roman soldiers and offer them as sacrifices to their gods. Samhain (say Sah-wain)is the ancient Celtic god of the dead who would come and revive the dead every harvest season in their lore. What we call Halloween is a variant practice of Samhain dumbed down. Many Irish and Scottish and Welsh Christians refused to practice the ritual here in the States when they found it had made its way here and many Christians of varying stripes do not practice it because of its occultic roots and rightly so.
Wicca does not believe in a devil. They will chuckle (and rightly so) at anyone who thinks they do. This doesn’t mean that Satan isn’t the source of their magick (proper spelling), nor is Wicca a practice to continue in. It smacks of the some of the ancient Middle Eastern practices outlined in Scripture as forbidden.
Satanism is multi-faceted. It ranges from simple ritualistic hedonism such as LeVey-style (so-called for Anton Szandor LaVey’s Church of Satan) to outright freaky stuff I can’t even begin to describe here for various reasons. Some of them DO practice human sacrifice. Police departments may notice small rises in unexplainable kidnappings/missing persons/animal abuse cases around this time of year. Most satanic human sacrifice victims however are willing volunteers. Satanists of the latter ilk practice in secret. They don’t parade up and down the streets claiming to be what they are. They are well hidden. As Scripture says of many kinds of evil, they (Satanists) prefer to practice their deeds in secret because they are evil. Some brands of Satanism practice their deeds in the guise of supposed ancient religions: worship of Molech, Dagon etc. ISLAM comes from the area where many satanic practices were undertaken in ancient days. Mayan human sacrifices were satanic in nature. Flesh-eating cannibals are/were satanic in nature, the very name Cahna-baal means priest of Baal. Cannibalism is a corruption of Christian Eucharistic practice in which Jesus told his followers “He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has life.” Obviously Jesus Christ didn’t intend us to literally do so and the Greek text will bear that out.
Forgive? One can’t forgive something unless it is done to THEM.
Embrace? No thanks. We can’t worship Christ and the Devil. It’s one or the other.
Tolerate? That depends on how you mean that. If you mean acknowledge the fact that such people DO in fact exist and practice these things, yes. If you mean pat ‘em on the back and tell ‘em what nice people they are and how they have the right to do this sort of evil, no. Christians should expose their evil deeds wherever we find/see them practiced. That doesn’t mean we hunt them down and kill them. It’s as simple as what I have done right here. I doubt I have hit on everything Wiccans and Satanists practice or come even close to it, but I have made you aware of it, and I’ve done my best to tell you what I know of them fairly.
So incredibly long..and so interestingly wrong.
Wicca is a cobbled together faith whose creator
sought to connect it to witchcraft–as it was
spoken of in the past. It has bits of various
pre-Christian religious practices and beliefs
contained under it’s rather large umbrella–
of which druidry is but one. The basic focus is
the goddess and the god(the horned god) with the
matriarchal structure being pre-eminent. The faith
draws heavily on Christian ritual as well.
Samhain is not a ‘god’. Samhain is a holiday, half
-way around the year from Beltaine. The Celtic
god of the otherworld is Cernunnos. Samhain is
the new year celebration in many practices.
Halloween was brought here by Irish, Scottish and
Welsh immigrants–they didn’t ‘find’ that it had
made it’s way here.
Halloween–All Hallow’s Eve, is a Catholic
celebration rooted in celebrating the lives of
those who are not saints, but who died as good
Christians–it precedes All Saint’s Day, which
does the same for the saints. Many Samhain
practices carried over as Samhain is the time of
year when the walls between the worlds are at their
thinnest, and the dead are memorialised to placate
them. And Samhain is not hugely noted for being a
sacrifice prone holiday–in reference to your
‘unexplained disappearances around this time of year’
comment.
Secret Satanists practices are largely unknown. They
are not the studff of books like ‘Michelle Remembers’
or any other hysteria inducing hooey.
There are very few who actually ‘worship’ Satan.
This is largely due to the fact that Satan is an
Angel of the Lord–a Christian entity. Many worship
things that Christians have called ‘the devil’–or
‘devils’, but these are largely gods whose worship
Christians have sought to stamp out. Those who
actually do worship the Christian Devil are, in
reality, a perverse form of Christians–they
support Lucifer’s Rebellion and work towards his
eventual victory–but, in the end, they do God’s
will, as Lucifer himself does.
Cannibalism predates the cult of Baal. Humans have
been eating humans for a very long time. Oddly, the
cannibalistic Communion of Christians has roots in
quite a few pre-Christian faiths for whom the
ritualistic eating of the god was a feature. The
practice was somewhat shocking to upper class Romans
and resulted in all manner of ill-will.
I don’t think ‘fair’ is really what you are being
But, as the Wiccans like to say, as long as you’re
not collecting firewood….
Fortunately the Catholic All Saints Day (some time in October I believe) abjures all that goofiness.
Should be “All Hallows Day”. Well I’m no Catholic and those strange religions confuse me.
Can we try that again? All Hallows Eve. Well you can tell just how much those really strange religions (Healing relics? I dunno. Vitamin C works for me.) confuse me.
I might also add that the “violence of the Druids” was a possible fabrication by Julius Caesar in his war against the Gauls, his having a political reason to smear them as unregenerate killers. Human sacrifice might have been part of the ancient Celtic religions (as it was all over the world), but we have no real proof that it was, only that prisoners of war were routinely executed. Any descriptions of sacrifices in “groves” or “wicker men” comes straight out of Caesar.
It gets better. The Roman republic (i.e. Rome at the time of Caesar the general) practiced occasional human sacrifice, including children, in some of its rituals (mostly performed, like in most religions, in the most dire need only, as a last resort).
Even later, Vestal virgins (and possibly other priest(esse)s) who’d broken their religious vows were expected to die to cleanse their honour and that of their deities.
Of course none of these deities demanded the death of themselves in order to absolve the sins of their believers, nor did they demand everyone who believed in any other deity be killed or forcefully converted, nor did they deny the existence of any other deities.
The persecution of the druids in Gaul by Caesar was purely political, religion had nothing to do with it. Druids just happened to have significant power in their society as religious as well as worldly leaders and it was the latter capacity that had to be destroyed in order for Romanisation to be successful.
Oh no! An intelligent blog post on the subject! Head … is … spinning.
/me goes off to find some more mindless vitriol on the subject.
Sorry!
Word.
as a pagan,(i.e. not wiccan but so not a satanist)I have to say; Good blog. and for all the ones that say thy shall not suffer a witch to live…in the original text which was Latin (and also in the Greek) the word is poisoner.
I wish I had scrolled down a bit before posting my comment. You’re probably right, though the original text of Exodus was in Hebrew and, if I remember, the context was God forbidding the Isrealites from engaging in the religious practices of the Canaanites. I’m too lazy to look it up right now.
Christianity (like Islam) doesn’t allow for other religions to coexist with it. And for centuries it went about actively eliminating all who dared not be Christian (including Christian groups murdering tens of thousands of those who adhered to a different interpretation of the Bible, often different from their on by only a few words.
Christianity had to stop doing that to face and block the common enemy, Islam, which was quite a bit better at it than they were at the time, and a lot bloodier too.
They stopped the tide, but didn’t plug the hole the flood had originated in during the Crusades and the mess we have now all over the world is the result.
Wicca is harmless. Most people calling themselves satanists are harmless too (in fact many probably call themselves satanists when they’re trying Wiccan practices, thinking the horned one is satan because that’s how it’s portrayed in some pulp novel or other).
“Christianity (like Islam) doesn’t allow for other religions to coexist with it. And for centuries it went about actively eliminating all who dared not be Christian (including Christian groups murdering tens of thousands of those who adhered to a different interpretation of the Bible, often different from their on by only a few words.”
Why is it that you are quick to generalize Christianity yet take care to separate the true Wiccans with the wannabes? Your statement that Christianity doesn’t allow for peaceful coexistence is absolutely wrong. Read the Bible; it does. Now, does that mean that history is wrong about religious persecution? No, it happened. But do keep in mind a couple things: 1. The actions of the peoples of any faith do not necessarily mean that they are accurately following said faith. 2. Persecution by Christian persons is generally associated with a period in history wherein the Roman and Orthodox Catholic churches wielded great amounts of political power. You should realize that they weren’t the only churches around prior to the Protestant Reformation and that said Reformation was motivated largely by failure of the Catholic church to adhere to the principles put forth in the Bible. This is where the King James Bible comes in as the ready availability of an English bible exposed to the masses the distance between faith and action that only a few were aware of beforehand.
Why is it that Christianity is judged and condemned consistently when other faiths are spared? I say cowardice. It’s easy to attack something that you know wont fight back. If someone or something is to be critiqued, understanding the subject is a necessary prerequisite. Read what Hollis wrote below, that’s a good primer.
It was written in Hebrew and the word used (transliterated to English) is kashaph. It means sorcerer or one who engages wicked spirits.
It’s certainly in modern Hebrew, though that could be because of Tel Aviv.
Lekashef = to practice witchcraft or sorcery
kashaf = magician, sorcerer
kashafut = magic
Root as is you have it = kaf shin fe
Jayelwolf, you’re showing your ignorance of scripture here. The Old Testament passage (Exodus 22:18) was written originally in neither Latin nor Greek. It is in Hebrew and the word translated “witch” is the Hebrew word “kashaph” which literally translated means to “whisper a spell” is to inchant or to practice magic. Strongs’ Concordance also says “sorcerer, (use) witch (craft)”. Nothing about being a poisoner there. In fact I can’t find any reference to being a “poisoner” in scripture. Not saying it isn’t there just that I can’t find it.
In fact a lot was written in even older Aramaic
and possibly other ancient (and at least in part forgotten) languages of the region.
And the exact wording can have changed over the ages, or else the meaning of those words.
It’s now old enough and (mis)translated and copied by hand with the inevitable mistaked often enough that I’ve no doubt in my mind some mistakes (deliberate as well as accidental) have crept in.
I had a date with a Wiccan once. She was getting her Ph.D in biological warfare subsidized by the DoD at Cornell.
I suspected that “breakup sex” with such a woman might be fraught with dangers I could barely comprehend so didn’t pursue the relationship.
She was pretty cute though.
Best comment this year.
Not all witches are members of the recently
created Wiccan faith. Most, even today, are
sole practitioners, outside of covens
and the quasi-Christian formalities that mar
Wicca.
And some are Satanists.
So? Who cares if O’Donnell dabbled in the craft?
Wasn’t the left going on about tolerance not
too long ago? Something with Obama and some
mosque he wants built? Why is it so easy for
them to switch gears and start denigrating
a Republican for a faith the tried–without
anyone uttering a peep?
When a leftist is caught in a contradiction with their own espoused values, we are all reminded to be open minded and accept their excuses at face value (qv. John Kerry’s boat, Al Gore’s carbon footprint, etc); when a conservative is in a similar position, we are all instructed to pillory them, to accept no apology, and to read dissemblance in any explanation.
A complete, total double standard, but then again, what else is new?
What does it matter that she was once a pagan? All Christians were once ignorant, needing to hear the Gospel. It is a blessing to be taught by one’s parents and trained up right from birth, but not all are that blessed. Among the great saints are some former murderers, fornicators, adulterers, thieves, blasphemers, and yes, pagans. Then Christ changed them.
I wouldn’t say that Wicca, at least in practice, is perfectly harmless. I used to work for a New Age publisher. Many Wiccans, both in person and in their publications, seem desperate to “prove” that Christianity is wrong wrong wrong. That was such a huge part of their mythos (almost an obsession), and often expressed in such vile terms, that it gave huge lie to their threefold return, let’s all dance around the May Pole spirituality. Also, many seemed to understand very little about history and other cultures and were only interested in appropriating, revising, and abusing what suited them. At any rate, the cult of victimhood, the childish self-indulgence, the anger, the ignorance … those things aren’t harmless, imo. We can see what they’ve done to the culture.
You see some of that in converts to all faiths. Most people convert because for whatever reason the new faith resonates with them better. Some people convert as a rejection of their old faith. For them the new faith is almost irrelevant, all their emotion is tied up in hating where they came from. You can see it in some Muslim and Jewish converts to Christianity, but mostly you see it in Christians converting to atheism or paganism. They’re really not Atheists or Pagans, they’d be more honestly described as Anti-Christians.
Plenty of believers in one faith are pretty emphatic about the falsehood of other faiths. Goes for atheists too.
Methinks they should be more concerned about being good whatever-they-are instead of whinging on the beliefs (or lack of) of others.
The really depraved ones suck on the May Pole. And everyone knows what THAT has done to the culture.
Well it is very good do be a suckee.
Don’t be a sucker. Down with socialism.
Hi Stephen! this is the first time I am reading one of your posts. and you are the second person on this site with a voice of reason and sanity! the other one is Michael Ledeen. while the existence of a higher being has been proven for centuries as a myth (god created evrything form A to Z) let’s get real. but I do appreciate your views. I just want to thank you for offering sulotions and discussions. everyone else on this site is waliking around with a loaded gun ready to shhot. I can alos see that you are a vodka lover. have you ever treid a dirty martini up with a few drops of hot sauce? it is incredible.
M
“the existence of a higher being has been proven for centuries as a myth”
Such a thing can never be proven or disproven.
Don’t worry yourself, It’s only Miriam…she’s always going out on a half sawed limb
…yet manages to bounce back on her feet time and time again. Maybe because the posters here are more tolerant than good ‘ole Miriam, eh?
*snort*
Um, miriam, basic logic, can’t prove a negative…
Oh, yeah, liberal, logic, can’t coexist…
Patrick
For God’s sake, she did this in high-school. How many of us would like to be held accountable for what we thought or did in high-school? And, if you’re going to hold her accountable, how about her opponent who was a Marxist in college. I’ll take a witch in high-school over a Marxist in college any time.
Best comment yet.
I agree.
Witchcraft is more likely to undo Pelosi than it will O’Donnell. See the ad by Pelosi’s opponent.
As soon as she looses her seat as Speaker, Satan’s going to revoke his promise, the bindings are going to reverse, and her face is going to fall off.
OK, let’s get to the important question.
Does Christine O’Donnell weigh the same as a duck?
I say lets throw her in the trough of justice. If she floats, this means the water has rejected her and she’s a witch. If she sinks, the water accepts her and she’s not a witch.
Being a newt, what’s it like?
I got better.
If you live in Delaware, at least you know you have an honest candidate in Christine, and she was once a stupid kid.
If not, go to hell
She was a kid. She is now a “grown up’. She’s not Pelosi with the “WORD”..crap vomiting out her mouth.
The Democrat party will do anything to destroy this woman. they are afraid of her. Afraid she will win in Delaware.
She’s telling you something she did in high school..high school and now she’s a Christian!!
Thank God her God forgives, since the media’s doesn’t.
SOME need to cut out the self righteous bs, god’s gonna slap you senseless.
You’re playing right into the democrat party hands.
Also, she never said she joined a coven. She did stupid kid stuff..get a freakin life. So much for honesty…
I’ve got even more experience with Wiccans than you, having been in relationships with a couple. And I’ve got to tell you, while they are not evil in any way, they are at least as antagonistic towards Christianity as Christianity is towards them.
There’s also considerable confusion (or “delusion” if you prefer) about Wicca having existed for thousands of years. There’s no record of anyone referring to themselves as a Wiccan prior to 1950 or so. It is a thoroughly modern phenomenon. Wiccans were never burned at the stake.
But really, Christians DO need to calm down about it. I’m not saying let your kids become Wiccans (or Jews, or Muslims), just recognize that these people are not engaged in ritual sacrifice or anything else. If you want to believe their beliefs put them in danger of going to hell, that’s fine, but it’s probably best for everyone if you believe it quietly.
Or cowboys.
I have my opinions. Do not seek for me to blow smoke up your backside or say that you are okay for believing X and I will do the same.
I’m with you. You are not OK for believing in X.
“Test all things; hold fast to that which is true.”
I wouldn’t care if O’Donnell was still dabbling in witchcraft as long as she votes to repeal that Road to Serfdom known as Obamacare. Better a witch than Harry Reid’s pet.
I cannot believe the attention that Ms O’Donnell is getting from this. Would anyone hazzard a guess as to how many people have been killed by witches, if any? The bearded Marxist, whose political ideology is responsible for more than 60 million deaths, is being ignored.
Absolutely!!!
The Marxist ignored? Excellent.
When I was a fresh-faced youth, we had a saying about the weather : “cold as a witches’ tit”. Since then I have avoided all personal contact with witches. However, in Shakespeare’s “Macbeth” three witches were always making tea – I think – in a big cauldron.
I’m sure that for most people, witches are in the same category as spies – kind of a sad joke but good material for authors of popular fiction. There are more serious things in life – this season’s surging play of the Green Bay Packers for example.
Is it confession time? Because I can do Ms O’Donnell one better: when I was in my 20′s, I dabbled with…the Democratic Party. It was only because Indiana Republican primaries were reeeeaaaaaaallllly boring in the ’80′s, but of course it left a mark on my soul that’s almost impossible to erase. Fortunately, my God is a God of mercy and I have long since repented. (Oh, wait, is that a venial sin or a mortal one?? Because I never did mention it in the confessional!)
hahahahaha, thank you
God may be merciful, but Democrats? Infinite can only go so far.
New best comment.
The witch or Harry’s pet? The cutie or the Bearded Marxist?
O’D claimed to be a witch, her opponent, Harry’s pet, claimed to be a bearded Marxist.
A competent witch would have turned Harry’s pet into a bearded Chihuahua.
Delawareans have to ask which one would do less damages to the country: the incompetent witch, or the bearded Chihuahua, and vote for the lesser moron.
Halloween horror: one of them will be a Senator for SIX years.
she never said she was a witch, or joined a coven, infact she said the opposite
….Reid did say the Bearded Marxist was his “pet”…hhmmmmm
I once played a priest of Chautea who went through a sex change early in his career. She retired with her own archdiocese as an archbishop in her faith. Top that O’Donnell!
Dabbled into witchcraft, how lame.
Chauntea’s not so bad. I once played a priestess of Lathander… roleplaying a female character wasn’t particularly difficult, but roleplaying a “morning person”? THAT was a challenge.
As long as O’Donnell didn’t play a Mystran. Seems like every book made them stronger and stronger… I’m sure there’s a correlation between Mystrans and the bloated government.
This weekend at a con, one of my players, an evil cleric, tried to reuse a magic item he wasn’t supposed to (Why? He’s evil. Duh.) So he got smited by lightning for 2d10 damage, but it only did 3 pts. He claimed that proved the superiority of Evil.
Now if you want to get upset in the real world about ancient gods being revived, I’d reccomend Moloch and Baal as targets of wrath. In olden days you could bribe the gods for success by rolling your kid into a fiery oven in the form of a god. Nowadays, we are so much more sophisticated. We strive for economic success by getting rid of the blob of cells at the local abortion clinic with a stainless steel pick. All hail Moloch Childburner!/sarc.
But God can forgive all sins, even dabbling in witchery or following some other god than the One True God, or cutting someone off in traffic.
And personally, I’ve met a number of Wiccans. They’re not wholly harmless, but if one manned up and professed a love of the Constitution and good values, I could vote for one. Keep in mind that no human is without sin, or without fault. So the notion that ‘wow, this Republican made a mistake in their life’ is not exactly a surprise to a Christian. We’re picking humans for these offices not angels.
The Earthmother?
I always went with Ilmater– great for screwing with GMs who thought that, since I could heal, that would be my primary goal! (easing suffering vs survival at all costs. ^.^)
Want to really screw with folks, go into Eberron and be a priest of Natural Law. (Anything you believe in enough can grant you holy spells. The look on the GM’s face when I offered a bunch of Catholic philosophy sites to explain what it was, even though it’s not a real world religion……)
I have to say that I do think Ms. O’Donnell has done one stupid thing in her life — and that was giving Bill Maher ANY of her time.
Beyond that, I can’t really say. Messing with witches is something that Democratic voters in San Francisco do all the time — otherwise, how to explain Queen Nancy?
Dana: I don’t think Ms. O’Donnell has done just one stupid thing in her life (talking with Bill Maher). There are a lot more You Tube clips of her now on the web than just Bill Maher comments. And, she got quoted in the Denver Post a week ago as saying “condoms are anti-human.”
Condoms ARE anti-human. By definition.
Condoms are “birth control.” The entire purpose is to keep a human from resulting via the sex act.
Thus, anti-human.
Wicca is what furniture is made out of, period.
As the sole representative of our dark lord Satan….(facepalm)
Shouldn’t that be “soul representative”?
I’m pretty sure it was Heinlein or one of his loquacious characters who defined magic as subjective materialism. I was exposed to it in a big way when my father insisted that I read Norman Vincent Peale and Napoleon Hill. (Was Napoleon Hill a descendant of Professor Harold Hill? But I digress.)
There’s a lot of psychobabble about the Salem witches being that way because of sexual repression. The other Christine scandal fits right in with that theory, eh? But I don’t know if I can buy it, because a lot of psychology sounds like witchcraft to me.
I wonder what Andy Rooney or David Mitchell might have to say about solipsism. If that’s your philosophy it sure makes it easier to justify bossing “other people” around.
Anyone checking out her video about masterbation can say one thing about Christine: she is a woman of passion, fire and conviction.
Personally I am all for masturbation, but she is passionate, firey and has the guts to advocate what she must have realized is a highly unpopular position. As long as she does not support the anti-masturbation law to send the FBI after those who do it, I think she’s fine.
I think that’s exactly the type of person we need on our side right now. Period.
I think all this talk about totally irrelevant issues will help, not hurt, her in the general election. At least she is interesting, not boring, and I think that should help us a lot.
“…the anti-masturbation law to send the FBI after those who do it…”
Actually, that would come under the dread Mattress Tag Enforcement Bureau – Masturbation Office.
Come to think of it, that would make a good premise for a TV adventure series, and probably more interesting than most. One way to spot one of their agents: they never shake hands.
Great Zeus! Now the Wiccans are after her.
That will show her! May Thor have mercy on her
solesoul.A bureaucratic witch who is a lefty giving a press release? I bet Selena works for the DMV. The olden time Welsh witch Caridwen would have been more, er, spellbinding. Caridwen had a dust-up with a Welsh bard named Taliesin and was chasing the poor man over hill and dale. Finally, Taliesin hid in a pile of winnowed wheat by changing himself into a grain of wheat. Caridwen saw this and changed herself into a chicken; scrabbled through the wheat, found and swallowed old Taliesin. Then, as a woman she bore him in her womb for nine months and birthed him as a baby boy.
Raise your game here Selena!
Digging up something 20 or so years ago, says a lot more about the digger, than the target of who is doing the digging.
For some, it is water under the bridge, and the digger(s)
do not go there, but for others, it is pertinent to who the target is today.
The left wing moonbat and RINO witch hunt against Christine should be a defining moment about the nature of the Lame stream Media, RINO’s and the Deem’o'crats for anyone with a brain. Contrast the way she is being demonized by these HYPOCRITES for such a very very minor youthful lapse of judgement against the completely free pass given to Obama over his document hiding, Muslim, Terrorist, Communist, Criminal, Black Theological, blatant bare faced lies and admitted Cocaine use, lapses which when they were not being completely ignored by the LSM and the rest were actively covered up for by them.
The Lame Stream Media has devoted so much time and energy in investigating and digging the dirt on Christine and Sarah time and energy that in Obama’s case was spent not in investigating but in covering up and fawning over him. It is pathetic and very very telling of the state of the USA and th RINO’s are as much to blame for it as the rest.
All I know about witchcraft I learned from Elizabeth Montgomery, Agnes Moorehead and Paul Lynde — with assists from Maurice Evans and Bernard Fox.
The fact is “witch” has come to mean a lot of different things, including Wiccan but also a primitive shaman (“witch doctor”) and just about anybody claiming to have eldritch powers — which is cool because I don’t know for sure what “eldritch” means but it’s a cool word and I’ve finally had a chance to use it.
I can believe that some proto-Goth might have gotten Satanism and Wicca confused and convinced O’Donnell there was witchcraft going on; as unsophisticated as O’Donnell herself was at the time, so were most people in her age group and for all any of us knows that “witch” may have learned all about witchcraft from playing D&D.
I always wondered about Eldrick Tont ‘Tiger’ Woods names. Were his parents Wiccans?
I was wondering about Eldridge Cleaver, myself — but didn’t he change his name to something more Muslimmy? A lot of those guys did.
Approximately half the girls I dated in college claimed to be a witch. They did it to add mystique to their otherwise highly conventional, suburban roots. Most of them didn’t really believe it, and I am sure they got over it. Some others later became Wiccans. A few married some poor guy who is spending the rest of his life hearing them go on about their superior spirituality. As for Christine O’Donnell, she looks like one of the smart ones. And I have to admit I find her just a little bewitching. It’s those big brown eyes doncha know.
Wicca was very trendy during the mid-1990s.
Faded away rather quickly, however.
Here, let me play the quintessential conservative whine game . . . “If it had been a Democrat who was revealed to be a Satanist, can you imagine the outcry?”
But wil you hear it form the lame conservative media? No!
I am a Christian. I rarely see a post that shows any understanding of the Christian faith. But that does not surprise me. Not everyone who calls themselves Christian is really a follower of Christ, although many sincerely believe it when they say it.
I would like to share what it means to be a Christian.
Warning: you may be offended. I hope you will listen. Trust me; I was once very much like some of you.
I believe the Bible is God-inspired and inerrant. There are parables that are not literal stories. These are obvious. Christ did not really want anyone to cut off a hand or pluck out an eye to avoid sin. Self-mutilation is a sin. That was hyperbole to make a point.
However, the Bible teaches, and I believe in a literal six-day creation.
I believe Christ was the son of God.
I believe that Christians have the Holy Spirit living in them and it changes them.
I believe the miracles of the Bible and the greatest miracle of all, the resurrection of Christ.
The God of the Bible is the only God.
The Bible is the story of how He made creatures – us – and is preparing us to be suitable to live forever in His kingdom to worship Him in the manner He sees fit.
The chief purpose of my faith is not to get myself to heaven. That is a side-effect. I was created and redeemed for one purpose: to learn to worship and praise God forever. I will do that in His kingdom, because He planned it that way.
The Bible is a unified story of that plan. The mysterious Book of Revelations tells it like it is. I am telling you this because Christ commands his disciples to share the Gospel.
Christ is the Son of God, Himself divine, eternal, like His Father. Being holy, God hates sin. For His own reasons, which He does not have to explain to me, He created us. We became the sinners that we are. He established the punishment for sin – eternal punishment in hell.
To show His great power and mercy, He had Jesus Christ pay the penalty for my sin and for the sin of all Christians to void my sentence to hell. He is cleaning me up during this life. I am still a sinner, but I have changed. I still sin, but I am no longer a slave to my sins or urges. I don’t always do the right thing, but I hate the sin that remains in my life and I long for the day when I will be free from this body of sin. That will happen when I die (or sooner if Christ returns before that).
One of the ways I know that I am a Christian is that I have a desire to share my story. Actually, I cannot keep it in. I am totally overwhelmed that God would want me for eternity.
I am not consumed with the importance of politics. I see it as a opportunity to tell you about Christ. That is my only agenda. He has an invisible spiritual kingdom. One day He will rule on earth for a thousand years. After that the earth (and the universe) will pass away and I will spend eternity praising and worshipping God. I don’t claim to know exactly what that will be like. I just know that the God who created me and delivered me can be trusted. He is the only thing you can trust.
That’s my faith. I hope that God will reach out to you like he did to me.
Not bad. Most of what you have listed would fly with most of the Christians I know. There are a few symantical issues I suppose. In any case I say to you thanks for expressing your faith in such a simple and concise diatribe. I suspect you belong to an Independent Bible Church or some conservative Baptist congregation or perhaps a non denominational congregation. Those from Holiness tradition congregations, charismatic eccumenist congregations or mainline Protestant denomoinations would take issue with you on several points, but that’s the beauty of the Faith. It is not possible to define our Omnipotent Gods character or purpose via any single expression of His people. We all get to learn together what His will is and how to execute it in our mission. BTW, did you hear about the Jewish christian that died and went to heaven? As he was being shown the rooms of the Great Mansion each room was open and full of praisers singing and worshipping together. When they passed one room with a closed door the angel showing the Jewish christian said to him, “Shhhhh, this is the room where the Baptists are and they think they are the only ones here”.
Cionnaith,
In 2003 I had a conversion experience at the age of 43. I had believed I was a Christian since I was 14. Without going into too much detail, I was shortly taught by the Holy Spirit a number of things that convinced me that I had been a “fake” christian. It was and continues to be a strange experience. I would call it a great humbling. My “world-view” has changed, and that is mostly due to the inner workings of the Holy Spirit that now lives in me. True enough, I sought out a local church that mostly teaches what I believe, but there are plenty in my church that disagree with me. I was raised (by godly parents) in a United Methodist Church. I am now a member of a Southern Baptist Church. If you really want to know more about what happened to me my story is on my blog at studythescripture.blogspot.com.
Having studied biology, I can say that there are two possibilities:
1. A literal six-day creation is among the most ridiculous notions that ANYONE in the modern world believes. The evidence that this did not happen is overwhelming, clear, and growing daily. It can be observed on the macro scale, and in the smallest of the micro scale (DNA).
2. God created the world in six days then created the overwhelming evidence, in painstaking, infinite detail, that is didn’t happen.
I know that creationists have a lot of “evidence” that evolution isn’t real, but they are just plain lying.
I have no idea whether there is a god, but I know for a fact that the Bible is not inerrant and literally true (something which I was once taught and once believed). Unlike Christians, I don’t claim to have the answers to everything. Furthermore, it might be quite convenient if the Bible were true, but it’s not. It contains wisdom and truth. So does the Tao Te Ching, and the Journal of Accountancy for that matter.
But as long as you don’t try to use a gun to force your superstitions on me (that includes, most importantly, the guns of the government), I couldn’t care less what you believe. We can agree that murder, theft and fraud are bad and should be punished, and that individual humans, whether evolved from amoebae or created in a day, have intrinsic value, and deserve to enjoy the fruits of their own labors in peace. That really is sufficient for a country to be free and prosper.
Barry D.,
Well, I told you it was inconvenient for me sometimes. I used to be a “theistic evolutionist”. I believed there was a God, but that He used evolutionary processes. Being a Christian includes the belief that Jesus was resurrected from the dead. Not a coma, but stone, cold death (among many other things). If I believe in the resurrection, creation is easy. Well, as I say, it is incovenient. I know my beliefs seem foolish to you. In spite of that and what you may think of me and my beliefs, they are mine. Think of me as you wish.
1. I don’t really care about the evolution v. creationism debate. I’m not getting caught up in that. I know what I believe and I don’t have any interest at all in changing your mind.
2. I DO believe the Bible is inerrant and inspired by God. I cannot do anything to make you believe that. I simply appreciate the opportunity to share my belief with you.
3. I would never come after you with my guns or the govt’s guns to try to impose my beliefs on you. I am the very best person you could have as a co-citizen in this country. I love my country and I love freedom. The God I worship has an invisible spiritual kingdom on earth right now. All he has asked me to do is be a witness to you. At some point in the future, He will set up an eternal kindom. Where you stand in that is going to be between you and Him.
Barry,
I suspect that God purposely used the word “yom” to keep things vague about how long Creation actually took, but wouldn’t it be a complete hoot to find out that He stuck those dinosaur bones in the dirt during “the second time” just to throw us off? (God does have a perfect sense of humor, after all; just read 1 Samuel 5-6 in your best Monty Python voice). Day, millenia, eon, all are more or less the same to an Infinite God.
What a SWEET double standard. Bill Ayers and his wife tried to bomb a party being held for members of the military and kill them all. But of course he was the son of a very, very, very, important person. They got off the charge on the basis of “prosecutorial misconduct, the instances of which, other than for relatives of very, very, very important people, can be counted on the fingers of one hand.
Now he’s considered to be a pillar of the community. Maybe even a friend and mentor of the LightWorker. You can’t hold little youthful indiscretions like trying to kill people against him–he is so progressive and wonderful.
But when it comes to someone who comes out of the middle class to take a position that RIGHTFULLY belongs to someone from the Country Club Democrats or Republicans no sin however distant can be forgotten or forgiven. None whatsoever.
As I christian…I loved your opinion on the matter. I’d hate to think of what would be said if I was recorded during those early years…when I was sure I really did know it all. Hmmmm witch or tax raising Marxist…gotta go with the witch.
There are two kinds of Satanism. Theistic Satanism, and Atheistic Satanism, such as Anton Levey’s Church of Satan, which is a narcissistic humanist cult that worships self as the deity, using Satan a familiar, and anti-traditional symbol. Theistic Satanism has a long history of interwoven beliefs with Witchcraft, not necessarily Wicca. As far back as 1750 the terms Witchcraft and Satanism were used in conjunction with one another.
The most well known, I think, theistic Satanist cult is the Ophite Cultus Satanas, which was inspired by Margaret Murray, just as Gerald Gardner (found of Wicca) was. Both entities worship the Horned God. So Selena Fox is just wrong, for whatever it matters, because no self respecting (ha ha) Wiccan practitioner is going to vote for a conservative.
“… no self respecting (ha ha) Wiccan practitioner is going to vote for a conservative.” I think you would find that there are Wiccans who do vote conservative, support smaller government, go to TEA parties and even respect themselves.
“…no self respecting (ha ha) Wiccan practitioner is going to vote for a conservative.”
And no true Scotsman puts sugar in his porridge.
Yeah. My Wiccan friends are suspicious of me. But my Crowley friends get it.
Socialist to Crowley follower: Every one should get enough to eat.
Crowley follower to socialist: Every one should get what they want to eat.
just wondering,but do you suppose if she wanted to erect some sort of wiccan altar on ground zero,would bill marr and the rest decide maybe she wasnt such a bad person after all?
#31 Hollis: Well said!! I am there with you, but too often I let politics get in the way. It is hard to remember that God uses men to accomplish His purposes, wether they are good or evil ( the men, that is).
Rick,
I agree. It is so easy to get caught up in politics and social movements and forget our job is to tell others about the Gospel. We are supposed to follow the teachings of Christ, but the danger is when we think we are capable of fixing this world. The Bible does not teach that. That is secular humanism, a form of idolatry where we make ourselves God.
Be faithful.
Well. I heard it. In fact got it forced down my throat in PUBLIC school. The bad aftertaste lingers still.
M. Simon,
Christ command to Christians was not to shove it down anyone’s throat. If someone attempted that they were wrong and probably not even a Christian. So don’t hold Christian’s responsible for that.
I do hope that you will respond, but my aim is just to tell you about it. Believe it or not some are offended even by that.
You sir, are an old, old man then, if you can remember when the Public school had anything but disdain for scripture.
Maybe we need another dose of voodoo economics.
What a dumb broad!
If this is the best the TP can come up with, it’s a dead loss!
All she had to say was, “I was in HIGH SCHOOL dummy! Next question.”
No. She has to say the equivalent of “we all do it, don’t we?”
DUMB!
But think of the votes we will pick up if the Christians can just hold their mud and not go reflexively insane.
I’ll go Stephen Green’s agnosticism one better and admit I’m an atheist. And he’s funnier than Bill Maher and Jon Stewart combined. That being said, I think it’s a cultural law that as soon as someone raises the subject of witches, warlocks, and Wiccans, the ethereal radar of Christians and like-minded souls detect it and flock to form a demonstrating crowd, many armed with placards featuring chapter and verse, to flaunt their faith. It’s a vestige of that grand old Christian tradition of witch-hunting, as is evident in many of the comments here. Yes, “witches” were a favorite target of persecution of Christians, even as long ago as the late Roman Empire, as depicted in “Agora,” when the bishop of Alexandria, Cyril, set his scruffy congregation to murder Hypatia with stoning and flaying, calling her, among other things, a witch and an “unbeliever.” (This is historical fact; never mind that the film had to compress a lot of history into the allotted screen time.)
Christianity was more like Islam in that era, and refused to suffer not only witches, but unbelievers of all kinds: pagans, Jews, dissenters, agnostics, atheists, scientists, the whole blaspheming lot. It was just as brutally intolerant. Islam, which was born a few centuries later, very likely cadged much of its Koranic doctrine and practices from early Christian texts and policies. The Koran and the Bible were for centuries works in progress until they finally ossified into the tomes we recognize today. Well, there were the “Witches of Eastwick,” and MacBeth’s witches, and Kim Novak in “Bell, Book, and Candle” (Novak was also bewitching in “Vertigo,” again playing opposite Jimmy Stewart”). I’d feel lucky to be the object of a spell-binding enchantress like Novak, who was definitely not a Wiccan.
Your history, in relation to Hypatia of Alexandria, is greatly confused at best.
As a Catholic who bothered to do the research, I find your conflation of Wicca with witchcraft and warlocks incredibly insulting; seriously practicing Wiccians would likewise take issue with such a horrifically broad brush.
Why don’t we just take Bill Maher for who he is and start an investigation of his pr-adult?? years and see just how much he believed in as a youngster. I’m sure he is not lilly clean but I do believe he is a pansy bent on destroying anyone he doesn’t approve of. I wonder, What office and service did he hold and enter for this country. In fact, what has he done for this country besides belittle those he disagrees with?
“Why don’t we just take Bill Maher for who he is and start an investigation of his pr-adult?? years and see just how much he believed in as a youngster.” Because he’s STILL in his pre-adult years and doesn’t seem to have matured enough to feel foolish about the dumb things he did as a 20-something. Kind of scary, imagining a “less mature” Bill Maher.
Being raised as a Catholic, she probably didn’t as much dabble in some sort of occultism as get caught playing Dungeons & Dragons with some friends by her family and get thrown into a good-ole-fashioned deprogramming session.
Wiccan babes are bonkers in the sack! Repression is not part of vocabulary. My last “wiccan” girlfriend ditched the wiccan tag in favor of “druid”. I think she just wanted to mess with folks who couldn’t handle her beliefs. She is also a Major in the US Army and a Gulf war veteran ( Iraq 2008 ). She’s fought for our freedom.
Yup. And lots of “alternate lifestyles” mixed in.
Lesbians. Yummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Taste great. Less filling.
I’m seriously considering becoming a Jack Wiccan.
“Is any given candidate a person of conviction, and is that conviction to cut Washington down to size? All else is superfluous.”
Uh, not so much buddy. I get your sentiment, but it doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. It’s as shortsighted as wanting “change”, and all else being superfluous. Look where that gets you.
Oh, and if O’Donnell is a witch, Obama is a Muslim…
Ah. But o’Donnell has stated explicitly the kind of change she is after.
It’s the Constitution stupid.
As things stand now I would gladly compare O’Donnell’s past to that of the filth in the WH.
Liberals are great moralists, at selective times. My all time favorite is Bill Clinton, Rapist, and still a liberal hero. Yep, some moralists.
Maher is trash,to him the entire country is stupid because some disagree with his twisted mind, he’s angry because his boy Obama is an abject failure and clown
“All else is superfluous. A candidate could believe in Caspar the Friendly Ghost, ancient astronauts, or that Mars Needs Women, for all I care — so long as they hold true to that core conviction that Washington must be cut down to size.”
That says it all, right there.
The only legitimate question is how much do you people want to slash the size of government? Do you really want to be free or do you actually want to use government to control the lives of others? (Every time you use government to control the lives of others, you get more government and more government spending and fewer freedoms.)
I belong to the outlaw biker faction of “witchcraft”. This “and it harm no one” is so wimpy.
“Do what thou wilt” and let the Devil take hindmost.
That’s still middling compared to “Kill ‘em all, let God sort ‘em out.”
In the clip, O’Donnel was talking about a black mass, so her friends probably were satanists, not witches. O’Donnell, like many christians, mistakenly called them witches.
I agree that what somebody did in high school is pretty irelevant today. It is a lot more important what they will vote for/against once elected. Past scandall is only relevant if it indicates either mental instability, or if a financial scandal, a likelyhood to use their public office for profit. The high school satanist/witchcraft thing does not fit those standards.
I would be more worried about her later financial problems, although I have heard reasonable explanations for most of them.
Interesting though that when past Obama associations were brought up, the MSM told us how those things in the past were irelevant, and what was important was what Obama would do once elected. Now, all of the sudden, with O’Donnell, background is everything. another leftie media double standard.
All of this would be a moot point if we lived up to the Judaic-Christian system our forefathers gave us, through the grace of a loving G-d and his begotten son, Jesus. Whether or not O’Donnel is no longer a Satanist is pointless. If we would put a stop to the liberal agenda that is destroying this country, we wouldn’t be allowing women to vote, let alone run for office. That isn’t their place in G-d’s perfect and divine plan. That the problem…these damn leftist in the media (don’t get me started on “conservative” fox news, which is as liberal as the rest of them) telling us what we should do or think…THAT’S WHATS THE BIBLE IS FOR!!!
I’m wondering what I should think about neutrons. Or electrons. Or Fermi Levels. Or Feynman Diagrams. Or how about phonons. Or why YBCO superconducts. I’d like to see the Bible verses so I will know what to think. And I see your point completely.
Thinking for yourself is hard work. It can make your head hurt.
You are quite the tempter aren’t you. All that you mentioned is completely and utter irrelevant to your lord and savior, whether or not you recognize it. You may as well spend your time trying to cure things like whooping cough when what one needs is simply the love and trust of Jesus in their hearts. I’ll pray for you…but I won’t fall for your evil ways my friend.
Barry D., although I’m only a SF writer of sorts, and not a scientist, I am a Young Earth Creationist. The scientific evidence is rather strong.
But thanks for calling me a liar. I’m now so likely to go out and rethink my position, and join the Church of Darwin.
Moderately amusing, Diablo.
M. Simon, you should abjure science because Science is founded on the notion of a singular lawful and rational and omniscient deity instead of the celestial chaos that a pantheon of squabbling and not that bright deities (see the Greeks) created from worshipping their ancestors after said ancestors left the Tower of Babel in the rear view mirror.
Just a troll, dude. Someone that really thought that way wouldn’t either a) play Blizzard games or B) name themselves “devil.”
I would vote for Satan himself as a Senatorial candidate if he pledged to cut federal spending and repeal Obamacare.
“The error seems not sufficiently eradicated that the operations of the mind as well as the acts of the body are subject to the coercion of the laws. But our rulers can have authority over such natural rights only as we have submitted to them. The rights of conscience we never submitted, we could not submit. We are answerable for them to our God. The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.”
-Thomas Jefferson
Notes on Virginia Query 17, 1782.
Did Mrs. O’Donnel say she dabbled in Wiccanism? Or did she say she dabbled in witchcraft and our dear, inebriated Mr. Green just assume that she was confusing witchcraft and Wiccans? Perhaps Mr. Greens Wiccan friends have bewitched him into believing that they invented the term “witch” and are the only people it can ever truely mean. Here’s some advice for the local coven: Everything isn’t always about you. Don’t steal terms from history and religion that you don’t understand and then get your hemp panties in a twist because everyone doesn’t automatically switch over to your new definitions.
O’Donnell said — as I just spent 800 words explaining — that she “dabbled” in “witchcraft,” which she had conflated with Satanism. Or, she was dealing with actual Satanists, whom she mistakenly thought were witches.
Perhaps a drink or three might sharpen up those reading comprehension skills.
Having had that drink or three….
“Witchcraft” doesn’t specifically mean Wicca. Shoot, look at Shakespeare– the Scottish Play has a very good example of witchcraft that is NOT Wicca, at all. The first two definitions of “witch” are “enchantress” and “demonically empowered woman”– with Wiccan as a third.
Same way I don’t get pissy about folks using “Catholic” to mean “universal”– it’s a valid different definition.
Maybe a better example, since it’s less emotionally charged, would be from back when I was in training for my job in the Navy: we were on an air force base, and some hopped up twit decided to yell at us about how the facility we were in was for “airmen” only. We were all airmen– being navy aviation E3 and below. He MEANT that it was only for air force lower enlisted, which are generically called “airmen.”
Going back to my glass of wine, now.
Many commentators here are missing Vodkapundit’s point. The government has a legal monopoly on the use of force. Christianity, Wicca, and everything else mentioned here does not. This fact alone should tell you who the real threat is. I agree with Vodkapundit. I don’t care if the people running for office are Wiccans, Christians, believers in UFO’s, or people who are purple with pink pokka-dots. The only think I care about is if they have the conviction and commitment to reduce the size and power of the federal government.
Through the law of the Constitution, right?
Okay, nobody has answered the most important question.
Can I still lust after Alyssa Milano and Shannon Dougherty?
Now all she has to do is come out and say she played D&D while in high school and that will pretty much wrap up the geek vote…
I don’t really care what you believe in, and UFOs are doing better on the sighting list than conservative Democrats these days, and if believing strange things in high school and college is a bar to public office, then you will have no one to vote for.
Meanwhile she is running against a pet, and that from a friend of her opponent. Of course that same friend also calls a colleague ‘hot’ which makes you wonder if there is a three-some deal going on in the Democratic cloak room in the Senate.
“candidate could believe in Caspar the Friendly Ghost, ancient astronauts, or that Mars Needs Women, for all I care — so long as they hold true to that core conviction that Washington must be cut down to size”
OK, but even if we’re talking about Ayn Freaking Rand, I draw the line at Teenagers from Outer Space.
Based on my admittedly limited exposure, Wicca appears to basically amount to calling being a hippie a religion. On the other hand, given the popularity of Mad Men, with it’s obvious parallels to Bewitched four decades ago, witchcraft does seem to be making an insidious comeback.
News flash: a candidate for public office was once a fatuous, self-dramatizing teenager who dabbled in silly, less than respectable trends. The scandal … the SCANDAL.
A liberal friend of mine, who had read an NYT article about O’Donnell talking about her lying about graduating from college, asked what I thought of her. My reply was similar to Steve’s. If she wants to repeal Obamacare and her opponent doesn’t, then I don’t care if she lied about graduating from grammar school, she would have my vote. Thus far, no response from my liberal friend.
sounds to me like she was a “fluffy bunny” “witch” with only a superficial, passing interest, soon outgrown. nothing to worry about. if i were a delaware voter i’d support her conservative beliefs now.
The conversation of what is and isn’t witchcraft, and whether it can or can not live beside Christianity, is fascinating, but the real topic is whether Christine O’Donnell was ever a witch or not. The fact that she “dabbled” in it (or some form of Satanism) is mitigated by the fact that she was in high school. High school, people. Who here can look back on high school and truthfully say they weren’t very young and the dumbest of dumb?
Best response ever.
Thanks Steve for getting both sides so well.
Nice post, but…the Christian pantheon? A pantheon is multiple gods. Belief in the Trinity is “God in three persons”. Not three gods, one. No, I don’t know what that means exactly, either.
But if I say “a hand in five fingers”, I’m not saying there are five hands. Personhood and Godhood are not synonymous.
You have to admit, though, that if you started talking about a “hand in five fingers” and told people that if they didn’t believe exactly the right thing about that hand, the fingers, and their relationship to each other, they’d spend an eternity in hell, they’d look at you like you were completely insane. If you couldn’t even really explain what you were talking about, they’d be CERTAIN you were crazy.
I think you understand what I’m driving at.
Then you have the Calvinist idiots who say that the Arminian heretics are deceived by Satan, despite the fact that I have known few Christians, no matter how well-studied or “on fire”, who would have a clue about what they were talking about…
Again, if this stuff wasn’t part of an established religion, we’d perceive all this stuff as completely crazy, and practitioners to be as silly and self-dramatizing as any teenage “witch.”
BTW the whole witch thing underscores the degree to which American men really get the short end of the stick.
It sounds like a young woman can dress witchy-like and say she’s a witch, and still get laid — men seem downright eager to try it. A young man who dresses as and claims to be a wizard? Yeah, right.
Now think with the head on your shoulders,this topic has nothing to do with sex. Unless you add odumbo to it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRXb76bunoM
Excellent point. And something else I’ve noticed: wearing a slave Leia costume never pays off for guys the way it does for women. Just try it and see.
Glenn Beck had the most pertinent comment to say about this:
“In Delaware, we have an avowed Marxist against a witch. The only question: is she a good witch or a bad witch, because there’s no such thing as a good Marxist.”
My sentiments exactly.
Thank you, Steve. An excellent discussion, with much light and little heat.
This rant about ‘witchcraft’ concerning Christine O’Donnell can only be significant to superstitious people. Witchcraft isn’t real no matter how many newt’s eyes or Polosies you throw into a pot. For those people who think that a little fun in High School is significant, they must have a really dull life.
I am Wiccan, and have been for over 25 years (holy crap I’m old!). However, I have always considered myself a ‘solitary non-practitioner’, as I saw covens as being no different than any other organized religion. To me, the use of candles and incense is just a form of prayer; a way to quiet your mind and concentrate on achieving your goals or making yourself a better person.
There is no such thing as ‘witchcraft’. It is all psychological. If I were to say to you, that I have put a ‘hex’ on you, most people will then start to see ordinary events (such as a flat tire, being late for work, stubbing their toe) as a result of this ‘magic’. Same goes for the reverse. (I see good things for you – then you find a dollar on the ground, get a raise, get a phone call from an old friend, etc…) It’s the power of suggestion.
Also, anyone who claims to be ‘psychic’, or that can ‘talk’ to the dead, etc…, are charlatans in the worst way. They are acting as unlicensed counselors and giving people ‘answers’ to things they already know.
Look inside yourself, and you will find the answers you seek.
As for satanists, they’re just pissed off Christians trying to get back at their parents or the Church.
>>There is no such thing as ‘witchcraft’. It is all psychological.<<
Not entirely true, although headed in the right direction. While there may be no magic (supernatural christian stuff or otherwise) INFJ types have an ability to "see" in ways that amaze everyone else. INFJ's tend to be able to piece together complex truths from scant clues. On one of the M-B personality profile sites there's some verbiage to the effect that historically many (most?) of what were felt to be witches were INFJ's — people who "knew" more than they ought to have… e.g. an INFJ is especially adept at reading body language and other physical giveway "tells" (think of the Lie To Me tv series) and with practice are better at detecting truth/lies etc than you'd think.
Combine some herbal cleverness (specially in the days when medicines and remedies were scant and/or ineffective, such as bleeding) and INFJ capability and you have what most folks back in the day would perceive as a living, breathing witch, capable of healing and what the uninitiated could only grasp as a form of mind reading. It's not that much of a stretch for some to imagine said witch to have other more hidden "powers." If the witch were able to heal via herbs and the church approved, Galen-inspired medical practioners were not, the uncomprehending could easily assume that the witch had made a bargain with the devil.
Of course in truth there was no magic happening, just a high IQ combined with heightened perceptions. Today's wiccans etc are mostly imbecile poseurs with a need to be different; only 1% or so of the population is INFJ. It follows that this distribution is unlikley to be radically different amongst wiccans.
At the risk of repeating myself….
Which quote was NOT said by Ms O’Donnell:
1. “Dorm life has evolved into a blending of the sexes, from coed buildings to coed floors, coed bathrooms and now even coed rooms. What’s next? Orgy rooms? Menage a trois rooms?”
2. “Yes.” (In answer to the question “You’re going to stop the whole country from having sex?”)
3. “The Bible says the Sun goes round the Earth, and as a Christian, I have to believe that, because it’s only common sense.”
4. “American scientific companies are cross-breeding humans and animals and coming up with mice with fully functioning human brains.”
5. “…the world began as the Bible in Genesis says, that God created the Earth in six days, six 24-hour periods. And there is just as much, if not more, evidence supporting that.”
6. “There’s only truth and not truth. You’re either very good or evil.”
7. “In the guise of so-called freedom of separation of church and state, they’re trying to institute a communist country and that sounds radical but that’s the truth.”
8. “They knock on the door at all hours of the night. They’re hiding in the bushes when I’m at candidate forums. In 2008 they broke into my home. They vandalized my home. They wrote nasty notes on my front door, on my front porch. They jeopardized my safety.”
9. “I’ll tell you, I just came back from the Middle East, and it was refreshing. With all that is going on, it was refreshing not to be constantly bombarded with smut all the time.”
10. “The thing that attracts people to “The Sopranos” is the family element. It shows that America still has a longing for that traditional upbringing.”
Yes, one of those quotes is totally bogus. The rest are genuine.
Answer: #3 is bogus.
1. Washington Times, 9/18/03
2. MSNBC Scarborough Country, 11/13/03
3. ====> BOGUS – the one “quote” that’s entirely fictional <=======
4. Fox News O'Reilly Factor, 10/16/07
5. New York Magazine, 9/15/10
6. Wilmington News-Journal, 11/12/06
7. Savage Nation, 5/24/03
8. Weekly Standard, 9/2/10
9. MSNBC, 3/23/04
10. Hardball, 6/20/03
Now it might be acceptable for a candidate to state they believe "The Flintstones" is a documentary. But when they also state that "Pinky and the Brain" is…. that Dem Debil Scientists are cross-breeding humans and mice to produce mice with fully functional human brains!!!… as part of some kind of Communist Plot to pollute our precious bodily fluids….
You have to wonder. Either she’s as crazy as a loon, or so unprincipled and cynical, saying whatever the rubes want to hear, be it about cutting down government spending, or the moon being made of green cheese, that even a “Bearded Marxist” might not be worse. Or much worse, anyway.
Jeez what an awful choice. America, you can do better. If not, we’re all up the creek.
One thing’s for sure. If you think she’ll reduce government spending… I have this wonderful harbour bridge to sell you. Cash please, no cheques, and small bills.
How far we can go as a country if we put on trial a “witch” or someone who merely mingled with “witches” (O’Donnell) and give pass to a bearded Marxist (Chris Coons)? OK, let us be rational and compare how many people were killed by the witches (???) and how many people were killed by the beaded Marxists (200,000,000???) How many countries were destroyed by the witches and how many by the beaded Marxists ?
If US fundamentalists Christians will disapprove people who say that they mingled with someone who practiced occult (or whatsoever is that) and later become Christians , then I say that such kind of Christianity should extinct for it is no any better than Islam that stone adulterers or Satanism (that is nothing but madness) and such kind of Christianity has nothing to do with The Lord Christ..It is of the Devil- the father of all lies.
Every Christian should pray for O’Donnell, who is a true Christian and true conservative.
The withes which were not to be suffered to live were in to necromancy and worse , consult ” witch of Endor ” definitely demonic in their practices . Wiccans? don’t know , don’t care to know . Only care that they meet him that gave himself as a ransom for all, Messiah Jesus
I’d rather have a Wiccan in congress than a Muhammedan in the White House…
If someone says “witchcraft”, don’t assume he means “Wicca”, as there are several kinds of “witchcraft”; I can think of Wicca, Voodoo, Satanism, and Hexaria off hand. I suspect that each religion has at least one “dark arts” equivelent, created by someone out of what the religion says you should not do, so we can add many more to the list. And don’t assume the type meant can be found via Google.
As a modern witch and blogger, I “know” a few thousand modern witches. Most of them are NOT Wiccans, though some of them are. I appreciate your defense of our religion, but it’s not quite accurate. Also, I know plenty of witches who would cringe at the description of being “touchy feely”.
And yes, to the Wicann above, witchcraft is real.
I don’t care if she actually is a witch. I’d still vote for her over the Rino Castle. However, in reality, how many people have said or done things in HS or in their early 20′s that they look back at in their 40′s with complete horror. The whole made up crisis of her being a witch or not or whatever or what is silly.