I am very pleased that you put real Pilots in the cockpits Steve, it would have really hurt to have a member of my own Family forsake the manned Fighter. Excellent writing!

The sad fact is, regardless of how you feel about the F-22, our ability to fly fighter, bomber, and refueling aircraft continues to atrophy as the nation turns its back on procuring new planes to replace the aging fleets our maintenance crews heroically continue to repair and prepare for their aircrews.

Maybe the plane doesn’t suck that bad after all.

Mauther, you really don’t understand how much work, research, and time went into the F-22 R&D, do you? State of the art, bleeding-edge projects will always be expensive. The trick is to run the production line long enough that the fly-away price drops to a sane level, which is why come congresscritters are trying to get the Raptor unlocked for export. Certainly Australia, Japan, and Israel would like to get some.

I’m less worried about how many is “enough,” than what happens when we shut down the production line? As Stephen has pointed out more than once, after that line is gone, we’ll never see another Raptor built, and 187 ain’t that many, especially in a shooting war.

Old joke: when you’re short of everything but the enemy, you’re in combat. If we get into a shooting fight, we’ll see ready rates go down, unpredicted shortfalls of parts & support, and un-flyable F-22s in hangers.

I’ve said it in previous threads, and repeat it here: smart tactics and smart pilots can beat “better” planes. Just because we haven’t come up with a solution doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist, and the enemy always has a vote.

History tells us (if only we will listen) that the Chinese WILL try for military hegemony at some point, and we’ll need all the technology we can deploy when that day comes. Unless there’s something much, much better than the F-22 in the Skonk Works, we’d better have as many as we can get. Quantity has a quality all its’ own.

BTW the SOUND of that engine is just awesome, and the thrust is equally so. I watched a test flight takeoff of an F-35 one day. The two F-16 chase planes that dive in to join with the thing just after takeoff had to light their burners to keep up, even though the F-35 had only just tucked away it’s gear. Like watching two Honda CRVs trying to keep up with a Corvette.

On the network aspect, I thought that was already established. The last scenario for the F22 I saw was 2 F22′s vs 24 Fulcrums, resulting in partial damage for 1 F22 and all 24 Fulcrums being destroyed, which is pretty amazing considering the F22 doesn’t carry enough missles to kill 22. But the scenario was actually 2 F22′s and 2 B1(R) missle carriers. The F22′s get in close then light up the Fulcrums for the modified Lancers which are carrying 10 or 12 AMRAAMs each. B1′s launch from long range, then turn and supercruise out (the B1R will have the same engine design as the F22) while the F22′s pick over the remains. Really, its not even sporting.

I like the concept of drones, but I beleive they all use satelite telemetry. Since we already know the Chinese plan to knock out our satelites, I think they have a pretty significant achilles heal. Same reason I’m not a huge fan of the JDAM.

I’m still struggling to grasp the political angle of this. These kind of actions don’t need to make sense technically or strategically, but they ALWAYS have to make sense politically.

Is it possible that F-35 production will be centered in some more favorable districts? And/or are the major contractors for the F-35 better politically connected? That could explain a lot.

And then again, Obama has promised to cut defense spending by 10%. Maybe they’re killing the F-22 now, because they can. And while they’re making claims that the F-35 will fill the role of the missing F-22’s, they’ll try to limit F-35 production too, a few years down the road….

Shrinking in the good way – becoming less likely.

So, if we are not ready to seize air supremacy in a main force confrontation, you can expect that someone will put us in a position where we have to achieve it without the proper tools or force structure.

Given the choice, if I can’t have it all, I might prefer to deter the conventional main force attacks that directly and immediately threaten my vital interests and even homeland, and accept some risk that I might have to deal with far-away insurgencies in a somewhat ad hoc manner.

The really scary thing is that I don’t see the geniuses in Washington thinking even two steps ahead.

As someone who’s been in the business, so to speak, and utilized stand-off weapons systems(AIM-54 Phoenix), I can say that your scenario is not too fanciful, and probably very close to the truth…

As NukemHill said, a lot is riding on how hardened the networking is. But, I can see these playing not only an invaluable air superiority role, but a “wild weasel” one as well.

That’s why I’m so dismayed at the short sightedness of the F-22′s opponents. While there are admittedly bugs to be ironed out vis-a-vis maintenance and the actual skin and coatings of the aircraft, this is not uncommon nor unheard of; anyone remember how the Bradley vehicles were “deathtraps” and the M-1 Abrams a “useless boondoggle”..? And the critics that point to the price disingenuously mask that the unit price decreases with the number of aircraft fielded, as the R&D costs are amortized over a greater population.

The F-22 is not only important now, for air superiority and perhaps anti-radar roles, but as a bridge to the future; one that will include fleets of UAV’s accompanying one human piloted vehicle in the battlespace of tomorrow.

F-35 will be remarkable but it isn’t now, never was, and never will be an air dominance fighter. It is a synergistic weapon to work with the Raptor, not as the replacement.

(mpw280: Skip the Dale Brown concepts. Fantasy of a BUFF-nav, nothing more.)

Will Collier emailed to say he thinks the anti-radar role is even more important than the Raptor’s air superiority mission. I thought about that last night when I wrote this, but was at least one martini too late to think that hard.

But maybe next week…