We’ve Crossed the Rubicon
The Logic of Statism
I expect a lot of the following in the next three years.
1) Them!: More Obama soaring speeches about some “historic” crisis that needs “comprehensive” solutions (e.g., more of “this is our moment” banalities). Those introductions will be followed by alternate praise of some heroic individual who lost her health care, struggled to unionize, breathed some sooty air, was deported while cooking the evening meal, etc. These gripping narratives will be mixed in with ‘Them!’ demagoguery (e.g., the health care industry, the big corporations, the polluters, the nativists and racists — all of “Them” are standing in the way of hope and change, and, together, yes, we can! defeat them. Oh yes, there is going to being even more sermonizing, and shriller human interest portraits about “Them” smashing poor five-year-old Billy Jones from Topeka who flew up to DC to find Harry Reid for “help”; or “Them” denying Herlinda Lopez from Fresno her college dreams, who then wrote a letter pleading to Michelle for assistance; or “Them” absolutely crushing the mother of Bobby Smith for no other reason than sheer greed, who then took the Greyhound to Nancy Pelosi’s office!
2) The Fedopus has far more than eight tentacles: More letters in the mail from more state and federal bureaucracies (both broke, and searching for billions of dollars for millions of workers who need to be paid). The official looking stationary letters will be advising us that there is a new fee, surcharge, rule, regulation, etc. — mostly in the context that we have already in some way violated something. (Expect in such writs to see your name misspelled, your address garbled, one letter canceling out the one of the prior month, and semi-threatening language demanding compliance. [Don’t dare call the government number since the U.S. can’t hire more competent answerers from India]). This last month, to name a few, I got IRS friendly reminders, State Board of Equalization new rules, federal agricultural surveys, county assessment questionnaires, and the Census. All in all, about 12 official letters came, and I expect more this month. (My favorites are all the county, state, and federal agricultural questionnaires that usually have a warning like, “Do not write ‘no change from last year!’”—meaning that, even though your vineyard hasn’t gone anywhere in the last twelve months, you must go through a zillion questions, marking “No” to things like “Do you have a billboard on your property?” or “Do you raise gaming horses?”
3) More cynicism: The more Obama talks about the greedy and selfish in society who “take” from others, the more the public will understand that they are in fact the greedy in these crosshairs. Costly health problems that originate with obesity, smoking, alcoholism, unsafe sex, violence, law-breaking, etc. are really due to lack of scheduled office visits. One missed colonoscopy — not 50 extra pounds or 1000 Big Macs over the years — causes cancer. People always ache due to a dearth of medical advisors and outreach counselors — or the diet and prescription drugs pushed on the victim by the profit-mongering corporation. In other words, the old days of a kindly, but tiny government politely advising us about what not to do have now transmogrified into a brave new world in which there is no individual. Instead, there exists only collective responsibility — a creed that assumes those in rehab or on parole or fighting weight-induced diabetes were victims of a system in which those who did not engage in that sort of behavior were culpable in some way and should pony up. Best of all, the system assumes we are greedy, cruel, and selfish for writing things like the above.
4) Pelosism: In our brave new world, expect more of the lurid stories about the secretary of the Treasury not paying his FICA taxes. The multimillionaire Madame Speaker will spend more of the state’s millions on private jet travel as she lectures on carbon footprints and a culture of corruption. We will hear more about the chairman of the Ways and Means Committee hiding his income, or a member of the House Rules Committee bragging that, given the historic importance of health care, they are just making up the rules as they go along — and proud of it. Our guardian class has become the new French aristocracy at Versailles. They will rail about Citation jets for the CEO, and then fly federally-owned Gulfstreams; they will put us in Smart cars but limo in Yukons and Tahoes on “official business.” Our lifestyles will be as monitored as much as those who do the monitoring will not be at all.
5) Greedy and Not-So-Greedy Capitalists: And there are “bad” and “not so bad” capitalists too. The CEOs for GM are trying to help America out with green designs and fair wages — so unlike those at Ford and Toyota. Bill Gates and Warren Buffett are the model execs, quite unlike the yokels who run Caterpillar and whine about health care. George Soros is not really a money speculator that ruins banks, but a transferer of capital to progressive causes. In every statist society, large corporations either resist or join. For the latter, the machinery of government reinvents them as part of the solution rather than the problem — in the way that Al Gore really doesn’t really guzzle electricity, or John Edwards never really lived in a mansion. The transition to a Ministry of Industry requires a Ministry of Truth. With the Obama media we are already half there.
6) The Race/Class/Gender Cult: This federal caring creed trumps all religion. We will hear thousands of homophobic, racist, sexist anecdotes (but not those from a Ruth Ginsberg, or Harry Reid, or Joe Biden) that remind us why the government must enforce diversity set-asides and affirmative actions, and fund new sociological studies proving why group X hates group Y, and why government bureau Z is fighting X on behalf of Y for all our benefit. We are in perpetual war with perpetual ologies and –isms and we need far more Van Joneses to win them!
I understand the reasoning behind Obamism and am familiar with the feel-good, this-is-our-moment rhetoric of egalitarianism. But please at least spare us the fictions and simply be honest: Obama wants a state-run America, somewhere to the left of France or Denmark, a United States unexceptional and merely one of many nations at the UN. This vision follows an existing, decades-long encroachment of government. And it requires all sorts of highly credentialed overseers monitoring and at times justifiably attacking the upper middle class for its deplorable treatment of those below it.
This new America is ultimately predicated on the notion that we were born equal and must die absolutely equal as well. And this is entirely within our grasp, if we just understand that individual responsibility, talent, natural endowment, chance, merit, luck, tragedy, and a dozen other variables far too complex for government to imagine, much less solve, in fact, are not the real obstacles to ensuring equality.
Instead, it is simpler than that: greed, selfishness, racism, sexism, classism, and not niceness on the part of a few really are the culprits. Thank God that a few rare souls like Obama fathom that. And thank God, again, that it will take a singular humanitarian and genius like Obama to make us denser folks see it and do something about it.
That’s about where we are.
Subscript: Do Democrats realize that we really have crossed the Rubicon? In the future when the Republicans gain majorities (and they will), the liberal modus operandi will be the model—bare 51% majorities, reconciliation, the nuclear option, talk of deem and pass, not a single Democrat vote—all ends justifying the means in order to radically restructure vast swaths of American economic and social life. Is someone unhinged at the DNC? They just blew up any shred of bipartisan consensus when their President polls below 50%, the Democratically-controlled Congress below 20%, and health care reform less than 50%. Usually unpopular leaders and their unpopular ideas seek the shelter of minority rights and prerogatives. What will they do when they are in the minority—since they’ve entered the arena, boasted “let the games begin” and shouted “by any means necessary”?







more whining and defeatism
Will this action be viewed as the DemCong’s “Enabling Act” as they push to pass various “comprehensive” programs via “deem and pass” with the Toadies in the Reichstag?
The LibCong are in fine fettle now, celebrating their healthcare victory. This might be a Conservative Pearl Harbor, but I hope November will be our Midway. Thermopylae had its Platea
Dear VHD
Ron Rosenbaum asked me to pass this msg along to you since clearly your not reading his wonderfully educated and well thought out pieces. He says
“STFU you spitting, hurling racial slurs, strutting around with posters threatening gun violence, acting just the way I’ve portrayed them in my posts over the past month. A mob of cruel and selfish ignoramuses.
You know why you’ve lost TPers?(hes talking to you VHD) It’s because for all the hatred you mustered for the health care bill, for Obama, you demonstrated not the slightest care for the less fortunate among us. You only cared about your own pocketbook. You never offered any alternative plan for those who don’t have a health care safety net. The only ones your were looking out for were yourselves. The racial epithets the threats of gun violence, the thuggish mob hysteria.. America s just going to reject it, the way a healthy immune system rejects a virus. The only question is which pundits go on the record dissociating themselves from this sick episode in American politics, really something out of Weimar Germany.”
So to sum up Rons position on you… STFU YOU RACIST NAZI TEABAGGER.
This Message PJM, Ron Rosenbaum and robotech master(who is barely smart enough to cut and paste the wonderfully educated, stylist, hansom works of the great Ron Rosenbaum praise be to him and his ivory league education).
http://pajamasmedia.com/ronrosenbaum/2010/03/21/tea-party-r-i-p/
Direct link to ron rosenbaum writings… may you all bask in his educated and well thought out views…
“Those who read history, know what follows… ”
Are you thinking revolution or mass emigration? Personally, I think it would be quite appropriate if all of the taxpayers relocated and left the Obamanation. Could we possibly pool our resources and start our own nation? I live in Texas… maybe we could secede. We still remember the Alamo here. Sigh.. dreams are free. :)
Sorry about the foolish comment. Please delete it. I needed a whimsical release for the angst of watching the congressional insanity most of today.
Please take care of yourself in the days ahead. You are my favorite scholar farmer commentator. Truly, you are in a class by yourself and much appreciated.
…That’s where we are until something equivalent to the next 9/11 rocks the boat but good….
Dr. VDH,
Ever feel like a voice crying in the wilderness?
I spoke to a Dr. I know and he is considering retiring at 45 — which would be in 2015…
VDH: This essay is long, adequately so, and on point! However, my concern is whether we’re repeating the history of 1994, which I hope we might be doing in terms of throwing the Dems out this November, or whether we’re facing a repeat of 1860 and what followed that year. My hope is that civility remains the word of the day.
While it looks likely that Obama will prevail in this Sunday night voting on Obamacare, there will be roadblocks preventing some of Obama’s statist plans. Yes, I feel we conservatives must act with utmost civility, yet I doubt we can turn the other cheek towards the statists under all conditions removing our rights as Americans. And, it’s those conditions that will determine whether we’re repeating the history of 1860.
Obama must begin to understand that the Constitution defines what it means to be an American! He so far seems unwilling to allow that wonderful definition of our governance and statement of “negative rights” to guide his actions. That’s why, IMHO, Obama is not a typical American president, he’s more like a typical banana republic el Caudillo. That’s a our pity.
Roger that. Time to form the battle plan.
TERRY
I have never been so disgusted with our government as with this congress and this administration. Never. I’m a socially liberal ‘let me live my life and you live yours’ libertarian cross breed, I suppose, and tend to vote for rep’s (and dems) who support fiscal restraint combined with maximum liberty.
Liberty is not setting mandates for what kind of health ‘insurance’ (which it no longer is) you can buy. Liberty is not telling my I have to buy it or pay a fine. It’s not like a car- I could choose not to drive. I can’t choose to be alive (I suppose I could choose to be in this country). Liberty is about choice and personal responsibility, not about the federal government taking care of me.
When did we lose that?
Well, mulligans are not offered regularly in the realm of geopolitics.
Frankly, folks, those who have their passports, start looking at the countries in the British Commonwealth for places to relocate to.
You are about as welcome in Obamaland as the Stars & Stripes are in Ahmadinezhad’s office.
He is not a voice crying in the wilderness. It is merely that the people in congress are not listening. World of difference there.
Right now there are three major fronts in the fight against Obamacare.
First is the legal front. There are already a large number of challenges to the constitutionality of the legislation. Not much people can do there.
Second front is the state legislatures. Right now 38 legislatures are considering or have passed bills against Obamacare. If we can get 38 passed resolutions against it, this is the critical mass for a constitutional amendment to repeal it. This is perhaps the front where we can be most active in fighting it, because it is very hard for the Democrat party to control the state representatives. If you call yours, and ask them to support a state resolution against Obamacare, then you are very likely to be listened too. (No one ever calls their state reps, you see.) It’s also much harder to astroturf, simply because there are so many of them, and, frankly, most state legislatures hate unfunded mandates already. This might actually give them sufficient backing to finally get rid of them.
Third is November. If we can get a majority in both houses, then we should be able to delay it or even shut it down. A super majority can repeal it in 2010. A majority only will have to wait to 2012. I really can’t see Obama winning a 2nd term, given how much of a mess this is going to turn into, and that none of the candies get handed out until 2013.
Voyager
Wow, talk about a jobs killer. Businesses will outsource even more of their work now in order to save healthcare costs. Great job Democrats.
Oh, and by the way, our country is broke.
Republicans would have called the Democrats weak-willed and wishy-washy wafflers had they failed to pass a bill. And they will piss and moan now that Democrats have passed a bill. But one thing is clear, the Democrats accomplished what they set out to do, while the Republicans failed.
Chris,
You can choose not to buy health insurance. But, God forbids, you got hit with some accident or illness and was in an ICU for days. Who will pay that bill. The insured people. Even if you want to die, there will be people on the right fighting to keep you on life support. Remember Terry Schiavo and the death panel.
see my 4 point plan for health care reform here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCX6OAx6IXA
its a shocking starter plan that involves opening up health care to the free market for the first time ever!
@robotech master
Just because VHD (or anybody else) is against Obamacare doesn’t mean they hate poor people. It means they wanted a voice in what they reasonably fear are going to be burdensome costs foisted on them. They would have preferred a more rational approach to figuring out how to reduce costs and make healthcare more accessible rather than emotionally ramming through such an astoundingly wide-reaching piece of legislation to salvage political ego.
Making caricatures out of every republican because of a few racist people who identify with the Tea Parties also doesn’t get you very far. There are plenty of nasty people on the left as well. This isn’t about the behavior of a few, it is about principles of money, especially principles of respect for political process and freedom, choice, and autonomy as to the control government will have in our lives.
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
2+2=5
There will be no curiosity, no enjoyment of the process of life. All competing pleasures will be destroyed. But always— do not forget this, Winston— always there will be the intoxication of power, constantly increasing and constantly growing subtler. Always, at every moment, there will be the thrill of victory, the sensation of trampling on an enemy who is helpless.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face— forever.
I liked the article.
I weep for my country.
The Democrats are counting the Republicans remaining under the control of the eastern establishment. They assume the Republicans will not fight to destroy the socialist advances they are now making.
It further goes back to the fear of Palin. Because she be the candidate the true Constitutional Conservatives can support who could win and dethrone the establishment. Then the long hard road of restoring the republic.
The Republicans primaries are going to of huge importance.
“Do you have any idea just how crazy you really are?”
Note to 3. Robotech master : Most of us non masochists studiously avoid entering any page with that idiots name on it because reading anything he writes is like using a filthy public restroom. The only reason he posts on this blog MUST be that he is a liberal friend of R.Simon (himself a pseudo liberal). Reposting his sewage in places civil people go is uncalled for.
Just say it:
The middle class need to be humpin’ like bunnies and makin’ more babies otherwise, America better learn to speak a new ‘mother’ tongue along with veiling and dhimmitude.
How can we get VDH into the White House?
Well now its to late for the Dems to check “6″
As for Mr. Rosenbloom, I hope he and Mr. Krugman enjoy a cocktail together shortly, the “O Clock” is running.
Redball 6
VDH, when I saw your post title, “We’ve Crossed the Rubicon” I immediately teared up, because it reminded me of another place the idea of “crossing the Rubicon” was used –but in a very different and quite poignant context: It is from the final musical scene in the musical 1776 where John Adams is musing about what he and the others did in Philadelphia.
Adams:
Is anybody there?
Does anybody care?
Does anybody see what I see?
They want to me to quit; they say
John, give up the fight
Still to England I say
Good night, forever, good night!
For I have crossed the Rubicon
Let the bridge be burned behind me
Come what may, come what may
Commitment!
The croakers all say we’ll rue the day
There’ll be hell to pay in fiery purgatory
Through all the gloom, through all the gloom
I see the rays of ravishing light and glory!
Is anybody there? Does anybody care?
Does anybody see what I see?
I see fireworks! I see the pagaent and
Pomp and parade
I hear the bells ringing out
I hear the cannons roar
I see Americans – all Americans
Free forever more
How quiet, how quiet the chamber is
How silent, how silent the chamber is
Is anybody there? Does anybody care?
Does anybody see what I see?
Folks, you have just been coerced.
VDH is correct–it is full throttle leftism, statism and any other “ism” you want to use from here on out. Not only did Obama lay down the gauntlet, the Dems have come out swinging and we see a glimpse of how they intend to rally their troops. The Pelosi et al arms linked march signifies their intent to equate Obama’s social welfare policies with civil rights. The unsubstantiated claims of racial epithets and homophobic slurs emanating from the tea party are the beginning of what will become the marching orders for the Dems and our state controlled media. Civil unrest is necessary to “fundamentally transform this nation” and they will seek to inflame the passions of their government largesse recipients. As with the Census, the federal government will embark on a full scale “marketing campaign” to “educate” the recipients on the many government benefits coming their way to keep them engaged and inflamed through 2012 and beyond. This will be their defense against the tea party.
Finally, someone doing something for the people. While flawed, at least it goes forward. As a small business owner that for years has made it my responsibility to help those that help me it’s nice to know that the greedy idiots that only think of themselves or their own will finally be forced to be on an even keel. And you guys think you should succeed. Go ahead. Go find a better place in the world. We don’t need your selfishness.
Obama doesn’t really care that he will be a one term President. He will not only be the First African American President but also the one that brought Universal HC. He is here for the History books, that makes him so dangerous.
And now Rush Limbo will move to Costa Rica!!
Wanna bet?
July 4th: Independence Day.
March 21st: Dependency Day.
Anything that upsets VDH this much gotta be a good thing!
“Subscript: Do Democrats realize that we really have crossed the Rubicon? In the future when the Republicans gain majorities (and they will), the liberal modus operandi will be the model”
I disagree, voters will get smarter, so legislators should get smarter or they won’t cut it. They need to grow up, educate themselves and act as leaders of a diversified community, not small town inter-related family mentality. Hopefully the younger generation is watching the pathetic status of politics and look to the future.
Why revert to a banana republic modality?
Obama has demonstrated his smart leadership, incomprehensible to look-backwards Republicans.
Crossed the Rubicon indeed. And where shall we go, those who wish no part of this madness? When America was the last bastion of true freedom? To the socialist states of Europe?
And, for those of you who do not understand Mr. Hanson’s allusion to the Rubicon: it was when Julius Caesar took his army, illegally, into Rome proper, thus ending the Roman Republic, setting off years of civil war, and ultimately leading to the Roman Empire.
If this law stands, count me among the rebellious; I will no longer recognize the authority of the government, for it no longer stems from the consent of the governed.
We are very proud that Congress has passed the bill whose ideas were sponsored and supported by us. Thank you.
Bob Dole & Howard Baker
The Freudian “Death Drive” comes to mind; in particular its relation to the perverse egalitarianism we have witnessed today. This is beyond their usual jealousy and spite. This is suicide… and murder. Do they really want America to die?
How much ability, ambition, and talent will now go untapped? How many medical advances will now not be made? How many lives will now be cut short?
Welcome to the USSA, Comrade. I lived in the USSR in the late 80′s. At least they were moving toward some kind of freedom. We are screaming down the hill to central control
Now things get interesting…
If you want to ensure that every person has access to private health insurance , then you need to require health insurers to provide coverage regardless of “existing conditions”.
If you want to ensure that health insurers aren’t bankrupted by people who only get coverage when they get sick, you need to require people to buy health insurance, regardless of whether they want to or not.
It’s a simple trade-off, nothing radical, and makes complete sense. Why are people so hysterical about it?
First off, let me take my hat off to those that fought so dilligently against health care reform. The insurance industry and the far right were persistent in their steadfast determination to stop progress. However, the American people finally prevailed. We can all be proud that our health care system was improved. Need some medical help? Thank a Democrat.
Minutes of Obambi /Pelosi post Apocalypse meeting
Pelosi: Well, thank God that’s finished — it was touch and go there for a while but your promises sure FOOLED them. How GULLIBLE and NAIVE they still are — LOL Now, let’s get ALL the MILLIONS of Illegal Immigrants covered too (it’s their HUMAN RIGHT after all) and it won’t cost a PENNY more I promise — in fact, the deficit will FALL and Taxes will NOT increase. Well, that’s what I will say and they swallowed all the other BS so I am sure they will swallow that too — LOL
Obambi:-Great work, Nancy. BTW, what is actually in the Bill… no, don’t bother who cares , it’s too much trouble to read it. Now, let’s push for AMNESTY too — all the NEW votes that will bring will make up for all the REAL Americans we have lost. I know, my BLACK Brothers will stick with me no matter what, so that’s 13% cast iron votes and we have at least 20- 30 % die-hard MOONBATS (don’t tell them I call them that, please), too.
So, with all these MILLIONS of ex-ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS, votes, too we will be on easy street. Think we should go the whole hog and ban guns too then our Civilian Miltia’s wil find it easier rounding up the unbelievers?
See you in November
We will see you when your term is through
Have a good time but remember
You will hear us on November two
Well, much as I would like to see it, I doubt the Republicans will use the same ruthless techniques when they assume power. This is because, in general, they have more attachment to proper procedure. That is part of what defines a conservative.
Yes, for the sake of National Security precedents and procedures can be bent or broken, but in the ordinary course of business the conservative temperament by its very nature tends to stay within established norms.
It used to be that center-left liberals did so too, but now that species is extinct and only radical progressive and liberals remain. For them precedents are interferences and procedures merely clog up the work of utopian change. Change for change sake makes established norms and procedures irrelevant. That is why the Democrats will break more precedents than Republicans until such time as Republicans are no longer temperamentally conservative.
And if anyone thinks the MSM would let the Republicans get away with what they let the Democrats get away with, let me know what you are smoking.
For conservatives, virtue is measured largely in terms of personal rectitude. For radicals and “progressives” virtue is measured largely in how much one is trying to establish a utopia. Someone bound by personal rectitude doesn’t carelessly violate procedures and civility. Someone seeking utopia will sweep away anything that interferes with those “noble” goals.
Yes, we have crossed the Rubicon. Let’s hope we don’t next cross the Styx.
What’s wrong with reaching out to Syria and Iran, Mr. Hanson? You talk about these countries as if they were Nazi Germany. And don’t you realize the sea change that’s happening in this country? Yes, indeed, we are crossing the Rubicon, as less and less Americans are buying into dishonest platitudes like Israel being our “traditional ally.” A major shift is taking place in America and no amount of propaganda like yours is going to stop that.
Good bye America. It was nice knowing you.
This is in response to the dimwit who doesn’t know that the poor have no problems getting good healthcare. It is called Medicaid. The ones who have trouble are the lower middle class who actually work for a living and can’t afford health insurance, yet they make too much to get Medicaid. I was there. But now neither will benefit because the gov. is to cheap to pay what they should so no one wants to take Medicaid patients anymore. And, what happens when we run out of doctors because it won’t be worth it to study all of those years, have a huge debt and work for peanuts.
Prof. Hanson,
I agree that to follow will be a series of radical legislative proposals regarding immigration, card check, cap & trade etc. I don’t think they will be successful however – I think that the government will essentially shut down until after November via the GOP bringing the Senate to a standstill via parlimentary procedures. Assuming a tsunami in November, we then begin the proccess of de-funding the most critical elements of the damage done.
Thank you for allowing some of the unhinged posts above. I do not normally hang out where they post and it is illuminating in a sick kind of way, to read their poisonous bile, with obscenities replacing argument.
Fazer,
Keep deluding yourself that it’s about selfishness and greed. It’s about compounding one mistake after another and doubling down on bad ideas. It’s an unchecked demand on healthcare a la Medicaid and Medicare with no supply-side solutions, no tort reform and no real revamping of the current system. Things like ending recission, lifetime limits and greater accessibility are laudable, but the cost paid was too high and likely unaffordable in the long run without significant changes. Mandating the purchase of coverage is also one bridge too far for many folks just on principle, not to mention the partisan bent of the entire affair. With this, what prevents a slim majority government from mandating any activity at a future point in time? Certainly not the Constitution at this point, the House rules or the Senate rules for that matter. It is clear that they can be made up or changed as one goes along.
Obama is a sociopath with “a gift”. As with most president’s/CEOs he’s not there for us, but for him. He has no place (or rooting in) traditional American values and likely finds them silly. What I find ridiculous is that some people are surprised and shocked by how he has governed and acted, as if his record never mattered. It was all that mattered. To paraphrase Dennis Green (former Arizona Cardinals football coach) “He is who we thought he was…you wanna go ahead and crown his ass, then crown it.” King Obama awaits.
VDH, how easily you forget who did what first with a bare majority! What about Tom DeLay and the “historic” Medicare Part D vote? How was that different than tonight’s? This is a dream come true for corporate insurance combines, a capitalist gift. So how can you responsibly argue that it’s statist and socialist? Do you object to Medicaid recipients making co-payments? Is not that a step towards making them more responsible for their own actions?
Where does GWB and his administration’s handling of government and the deficit come into play? He was never held accountable for his misdeeds of any kind on any level no matter how many citizens were harmed by the huge deficits, the lack of oversight in the workplace, lax environmental enforcement.
The problem with the blogosphere, even for intellectuals like you, who I actually listen to and hold in admiration when you make sense, is that it’s too easy to shoot from the lip and think deeply of the implications later. All too true on day like this, wall to wall coverage of Congress, the tension and high emotions. We’ll all feel better after a good night’s sleep.
Do not be so sure that Obama will be a one term POTUS and not POTUS for life.
Subverting the Constitution seems to be his talent.
Socialism = Slavery.
This is a little apocalyptic. It’s going to be okay, Victor.
I don’t know how he gets so much official mail. I got the census. That’s about it. Other than that I get bills and netflix movies. Don’t know what Victor does to warrant so much scrutiny.
Now Obama is hot on taking over health care
He’s made it his personal affair
Lab rats and body parts you will all be
As he goose-stepped all over the Constitution, said he
‘Cause you see, anything that brings more glory and power to me, you must all just grin and bare
Well,Victor,they won’t “spare us the fictions” as they hurtle forward toward a rendezvous with Karl Marx’s outhouse…I think our best shot at killing ObozoCare is winning back the House this November,and for the GOP majority to simply refuse to fund it at all…none of the new agencies involved..or the 16k or so IRS agents who will be tasked with enforcing this monstrosity…and Barokeydoke will be essentially powerless to do anything about it…he can’t veto what isn’t in the budget…oh,sure he can go on a speech tour across the US telling everybody how we are undermining his crown jewel…well,tough toenails…they named the game and set the rules..so let them squeal like the hungry little piggies everybody now knows them to be…as for me,I intend go ‘go gangsta’ on my own rep here in Houston…Sheila Jackson Lee..and I strongly urge everyone else to follow suit..and I don’t mean just working to defeat them…I mean doing all we can to disgrace,publicly humiliate them…treat them as the servant class garbage they are…as far as I am concerned,the health Gestapo just knocked on my door..and I have no intention of going gently into that good night..much less complying with it…I’m on a war footing…and I may be there for a long time…but this is the first time in my life that something worth dying for has confronted me personally..and I date back to the Eisenhower years…time for ALL of us to answer the call…there won’t be a second chance.
Obama is a committed socialist ideologue. For the sake of America, he must be opposed at every turn while he is President and defeated in the 2012 Presidential election.
What we also forget is that the quality of health care will decline: less and less medical breakthroughs and miracle drugs. A lot of people are going to die and suffer needlessly because of socialized medicine.
Bush forced an unwanted war into Americans’ throats.
Obama has forced health care amendment into the GOP’s throat.
Tit for tat?
Recommend that all google Bastiat’s “The Law”. If you do and read it carefully, you will find that his political analysis of early to mid 19th century France is almost identical to what has been a slow progression in this country since the Civil War, accelarating since FDR. I wish our well meaning Republicans, Democrats, Socialist Democats, Communist, and Independents would just step back a take the long view of the impact the leveling political mindset has on societies, played out over time. There is ample precendent in the ancient Greeks and Romans, England of the Middle ages and Reformation, and the mass slaughter of millions in the 20th century. History tells us that things fall apart when a people and their government lose sense of true justice to the leveling, Social Justice, impulse. All that results, and our case is no different, is that power becomes centralized, leading to our national politics amounting to nothing more than an unprincipled quest for the reigns of that power and development of a frantic and dependent handout mentality among us all. Anything that keeps a politician in office is attempted under the guise of Social Justice: taxes and regulation to favor bribing businesses, unions, and the thousands of other special interests that carry large voting blocks or generous campain contributions. When government preys upon our vices not our virtues, economic ruin, oppression, and violence will be the price our children will pay.
Semper Fidelis Mark
Oh, boo-hoo-hoo. More fearsome keyboard commandos yammering about REVOLUTION. LOL! You wouldn’t know revolution if it bit you in the arse. Go back to your corn flakes and learn to accept the fact that ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE is the President of the United States. LOL!
Americans are doomed because they listen to abccbsnbccnnccbnpr…so they are so brainwashed they could not even spot “Harold Hill” Obama…He was so obvious…
Americans still finance the war against themselves every day at the gas pump…(and they do not even know what that means and they do not care to know)
Americans do not know what cellulose ethanol is; they prefer invalid objections about BTUs…or that every American car could run on ethanol within 2 years with any good effort…
3rd world America does not know or care that 1st world Brazil runs all their cars on Brazilian made ethanol.
It is over…why?…Look in the mirror!
You deserve Obama and he is correct that you need a nanny state…yes if you are not intimately familiar with (and understand the correctness of) everything I wrote…It is you!
Indeed, we have seen the end of individual liberty.
Yeah, sure Fazer. Finally. Because we’ve only given, what, several trillion in various forms of assistance and transfer payments these past few decades. And that’s just here at home, never mind what Americans do for those in need abroad.
Not only is this rarely acknowledged, but any time we question yet another demand pint-sized demogogues like you drag out straw men — “greedy idiots that (sic) only think of themselves” — for a bit of sanctimonious preening.
As for being “forced to be on an even keel”, you really should read the legislation that’s just been passed.
Minutes of Obambi /Pelosi post Apocalypse meeting
Pelosi: Well, thank God that’s finished — it was touch and go there for a while but your promises sure FOOLED them thank God we don’t have to keep them. How GULLIBLE and NAIVE they still are — LOL. Now, let’s get ALL the MILLIONS of Illegal Immigrants covered too ( it’s their HUMAN RIGHT after all) and it won’t cost a PENNY more I promise — in fact, the deficit will FALL and Taxes will NOT increase. Well, that’s what I will say and they swallowed all the other BS so I am sure they will swallow that too — LOL
Obambi:-Great work, Nancy. BTW, what is actually in the Bill… no, don’t bother who cares, it’s far too much trouble to read it. Now, let’s push for AMNESTY too — the NEW votes that will bring will make up for all the REAL American voters we have lost. I know, my BLACK Brothers will stick with me no matter what, so that’s 13% cast iron votes and we have at least 20- 30 % die-hard MOONBATS (don’t tell them I call them that, please), too.
So, with all these MILLIONS of ex-ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS, votes, too we will be on easy street. So we got the Health Care boondoggle and tacked the Student Loan CONTROL on it too so how about we toss in an anti GUN Law as well now we are on a winning streak it will make the dissidents easier to round up for my Civil Militias.
The democrat party lives off pushing entitlement crack on the American people. They’ve been doing it for almost a century now, and we’re all hooked more than we realize. Right now the only light I see in the gloom comes from China; please, please, shut off the money hose. It will hurt like hell, but maybe we’ll get our country back.
It is going to be hilarious to see the look on people’s faces when they don’t get their tax returns next April. It will be intercepted by the IRS to pay for their health insurance bill for the year. The economy will then suffer, because people usually spend their returns or pay down debt. And it will be too late, because November 2010 will have come and gone.
I don’t think health care reform supporters realize yet that it is they who will pay for their coverage, with the earned income tax credit money. HAHA, laughs on you.
Poor Citizen aren’t you the guy who wrote on another thread here that
‘THOUSANDS of people are DYING even as you TYPE because of no Health Care and that Insurance companies are spending BILLIONS of dollars to DENY people Health Care’
so why should we listen to anything you say or write as you are quite clearly INSANE.
Quit all the Danged whining!
There are more of us than them.
They can’t do amnesty. No cloture. Reconciliation doesn’t work on that and they know it. And even if they do, they lose millions of even Dem voters (hell, everyone knows Dems are the biggest racists on earth). It wouldn’t gain them much. And last night, these idiots signed their own death warrant.
So quit whining, go away for awhile, and come back ready to fight.
We’re gonna make these jerks pay.
@34 Robbins Mitchell brings up what appears at first blush to be a good idea. If the GOP can gain control of Congress in the 2010 election, then the next Republican House can write Budgets that attempt to hogtie the Administration’s determination to fund the various pieces of Obamacare.
The question is, would this strategy really work? One suspects that funds can be swapped around quite easily. For instance, Obama’s Treasury Department could probably perform administrative adjustments within Treasury to fund the new IRS agents.
I certainly recall Presidents withholding funding from projects that were in a Budget, but I cannot recall a case where a Budget successfully de-funded a program within an existing bureaucracy against the wishes of the Administration.
Does anyone else know better?
“Bush forced an unwanted war into Americans’ throats.
Obama has forced health care amendment into the GOP’s throat.”
One of these things is not like the other, one of these things was overwhelmingly bipartisan, the other, not a bit. Guess which one?
Jinxatious
Evidently, you have not read about the Iraqi elections and the fact that the vast majoiorty of the people are grateful for what America did in spite of the poor intelligence gathering and mistakes along the way. Remember, 77 Senators voted in favor of the Iraq War including Democrats VP Biden, Hillary, John Kerry, etc. It was a truly bi-partisan effort and it was truly about creating a Democratic Iraq. The public was behind it by a wide margin. Bush didn’t force anything on anyone. But to historical revisionists like you, history can be re-written to serve your assinine worldview.
By contrast, the healthcare bill was not bi-partisan desptie the demogoguery and rhetoric from our President. And it certainly is not about “fixing healthcare”. The public polls are against it by wide margins in every poll taken. The only common theme between Iraw and healthcare is the that the Dem’s will be thrown out just like the GOP was.
“He who controls the past, controls the future” – George Orwell
The Rubicon doesn’t work. Caesar was extremely popular in Italy when he challenged the corrupted Senate that had gutted the old Republic’s traditions. There was little opposition until he did his part in destroying the very flawed yet representative government. There is no Octavius waiting in the wings. This is more like the attack on Pearl Harbor. The sleeping American giant will rise and destroy the socialist fantasy. 16,500 IRS Obama Stasi? Not gonna happen.
Think of the last day of June, 1934. The party was at a crisis, and an illegal act of desperation rid the party of the internal threat, and gave that same party (if they acted quickly and decisively) the chance to consolidate power and neuter any opposition. The law became as nothing and they were free to act by fiat . . .
The right to life portion of the Democratic party is dead, when Stupak drank the hemlock and said he would vote (with his 6) he gave up. The “right to life” / Conservative portion of the party has been emasculated by threat, intimidation (listen to some of Stupak’s interviews over the past few days) and lies (sure, we’ll issue some decree . . .).
Now the party can use the same methodology and rationalia to drive through “Cap and Trade”, “Card Check” and other pieces of legislation (but only if they do it quickly) since the only “opposition” is a meaningless one (until November). Even after any election losses the changes will be too complex and advanced to be rescinded . . . the golden age of social engineering will become irreversible.
But only if the people are passive.
The ignorance of labeling tea baggers, conservatives, independents, or anyone else who oppose THIS bill as greedy, racists, selfish, stupid, etc is the height of hypocisy. Thanks to the ’60′s and 70′s radicals pushing the “do your own thing, everything is relevant,down with the establishment, live and let live, no rules, it’s the “man” who’s the enemy”, etc etc; our citizens have taken less and less responsibility for their lives and fell for the “victim” lies or justified every wrong in their life as someone else’s fault. They were fed that the US was always wrong because we’re all sexist, racist,selfish, homophoic, greedy, war mongers,etc. They felt justified in not helping themselves.
The results of the ’60′s radicalism has created the majority of social problems we face today – 70% of babies born to single mothers(highest in the world), addictions, obesity, street violence, 50% HS graduation rates, uneducated workforce, underground economy with illegals and others. And we wonder why our healthcare costs are so high and so many aren’t insured? Talk about selfish & greedy!?! Their bad choices subject their children, their parents, their communities and society to needless pain and suffering.
Another entitlement will not stregthen our society. As Margaret Thatcher stated in the ’80′s, socialism is fine until you run out of the other person’s $$. Talk about zapping the incentive to work hard, bust your butt, do the right thing and then pay more taxes and more for healthcare when 50% don’t pay any income taxes at all.
All Americans want HC reform with pre-existing conditions covered, portablity, continued coverage regardless of your health status and coverage for all who have major disabilities or catastropic illness. Most states already cover all children if their parents aren’t insured. Medicaid already covers the poor. We all want to help those who can’t help themselves, but not those who WON’T help themselves.
Dear Dr. Bones,
Allow me to wish you “Healthy days” at the outset, sir, just this once. If I may?.
But seriously:
Any conveyance that can call its own “on second thought” bottom line a _subscriptum_ in the language of Jupiter instead of a low, vulgar, vernacular PS after the manner of Bessie the Bovine cannot be all bad.
One had never at any pooint thought Neocomrade Rear-Colonel V. D. H. Blimp *all* bad, though naturally it is impossible to take a cheerful view of all that brain rot wrought in his cereberal gasbag by the American Ideological Enterprise. Even as the AEIdeologues will not, themselves, be celebratin’ future neo-anniversaries of 5 Rabí‘ al-Awwal 1431 [*]. Or so I betcha.
Before skipping straight to the subscript, though, spare me and the good neocolonel a thought for “Obama has crossed the Rubicon,” as follows: do you suppose, sir, that Blimp can *really* be a Pompey groupie?
The credentials of tertiary educationism so often brandished or autobrandished in connection with V. D. H. Blimp pretty well exclude the possibility that he never heard of _occultior, non melior_. If, perchance, he does not concur with his Palæocomrade P. C. Tacitus on that point, might he not supply a word of explanation? For I think one may safely assume that Wally Wingnut and Cindy from Wasilla think J. C. was a good guy, at least if they ever think of J. C. at all, which possibly wombschoolin’ and _Niederdummung_ has made sure that they do not. That, however, seems unlikely: even neokiddies must have seen *some* Hollywoord re-runs, after all. The Roman epics from Fox, if not any others.
Still, this sort of detail may be only the work of some editorial neoflunky, and not be the fault of Great Blimp Itself. Without more ado, then:
[I] “Do Democrats realize that we (_sic_) really have crossed the Rubicon? In the future when the Republicans gain majorities (and they will), the liberal _modus operandi_ will be the model—bare 51% majorities, reconciliation, the nuclear option, talk of deem and pass, not a single Democrat vote—all ends justifying the means in order to radically restructure vast swaths of American economic and social life.”
Golly, Dr. Bones! Hot stuff, innit?
Still, whatever the temperature of it may be, it is little more than AEIdeological boilerplate. Unless, perhaps, we supppose that the Rear-Colonel seriously supposes that just saying ‘Deem!’ has worked wonders by sorcery, like “Abracadabra!” and “Shazaam!” The brain rot is not quite that extensive, I don’t think. ’Tis clear enough that Blimp is merely tryin’ to subtract a few points for what his least favourite pupil did not write in the blue book as well as for what she did. The plain vernacular name for that M. O is, of course, cheatin’. And his is not even clever cheatin’, I fear.
Equally unserious, in all probability, is Blimp’s pretended notion that no public act is really valid in our holy Homeland™ unless it obtains at least one vote of a militant extremist Republicanian. Even if one inclined to give Party ‘n’ Ideology the benefit of a doubt along those lines, what could be clearer than the G.O.P. geniuses would soon start grabbin’ themselves ells instead of inches? If Neocomradess Sen. O. Snowe of ME, say, or Neocomrade Rep. J. Cao of LA, had supported the triumphant obamanation steadily all along, would that faintest tinge of bipartisanship suffice to make it kiddie-konstitutional in the eyes of Blimp? [2]
More interesting, though far removed from genuine politics, is the notion that the Party ’n’ Ideology of Blimp are primarily or exclusively interested in exuberances like “to radically restructure vast swaths of American economic and social life.” Quite a number of Kiddie Selfservatives keep up the pretence that they are just playin’ defense, after all, only (?) tryin’ to conserve what ought to be conserved. Blimp may have sold himself to Destructive ©®eationism lock, stock and barrel, but nobody ever appointed VDHB to speak for Wingnut City as a whole, did she? [3] (If so, what was the lady’s name and where is her URL? Plus of course we shall be demanding fingerprints and tax returns in due course….)
***
[II] “Is someone unhinged at the DNC? They just blew up any shred of bipartisan consensus when their President polls below 50%, the Democratically-controlled Congress below 20%, and health care reform less than 50%. Usually unpopular leaders and their unpopular ideas seek the shelter of minority rights and prerogatives.”
Few things in human events are more fun than allegator tears like these! One so looks forwards to V. D. H. Blimp sharin’ the “Democrat party” woe and despair next November!
Anyway, we ARE a minority, aren’t we, Dr. Bones? When the militant extremists have got a 41% majority of one branch of the legislature in a three-branch system, how on G*re’s green earth can we jackasses expect to get anything done without a Special Providence from Father Zeus?
_Alio modo_: one can tell that this gasbag drifted in from darkest Schwarzeneggerland. Out there, the only majorities and minorities of any importance are those that occur in a referendumb.
***
[III] “What will they do when they are in the minority—since they’ve entered the arena, boasted “let the games begin” and shouted “by any means necessary”?”
I have no idea worth mentioning, actually, though perhaps after I finish my projected research project about the John Tyler POTUSdom, I will have some practical suggestions to boast/shout about coping with America’s Otherparty in an hour of insolence.
It scarcely matters, though: obviously Blimpius takes for granted that if utterly will not matter what we do. Enjoy, enjoy.
Happy days.
___
[1] The “21 March 2010″ of the main stream of the former Christojudæandom, correspondin’ to what a few fossils of Syriac Civ. still occasionally refer to as “6 Nîsán 5770.” _Cf._ http://www.haaretz.com/
(( DIGRESSION
(( Have I ever mentioned, Dr. Bones, my wonder at how one can always get Ye Olde Syriacke for today’s date at _Ha ’Áretz_, [ http://www.haaretz.com/ ], a supposedly liberal, maybe even former-cosmopolitan, organ of journalism, whilst the neogentry up the slippery slope at _Y’dî‘ôt ’Ahárônôt_ refuse to be bothered with such a silly bother? Not even, it looks like, in their neo-S*m*te recension, http://tinyurl.com/z4h !
(( Might not this discrepancy, trivial in itself, have somethin’ to do with the kiddies’ Destructive ©®eationism product, and therefore merit a little neocomradological investigation one day soo? Not, today, though, when we not only have some Really Big News, but also have Rear-Col. Blimp in our sights, who is nothin’ demographic if not one of the WASP God Folk(®), for all Blimp’s private-sectorian flirtations with the mythology of Mars and Bellona. Some other time, perhaps, . . . . ))
I note, by the way, that “future neo-anniversaries” is tautology, all anniversaries being, by their nature, neoterrorist. Subtract threee points.
[2] As with Pompeius and Tacitus, Blimpius cannot be simply unaware that the (adult) Fedguv Constitution does not take any notice of parties at all. And he would do well to confer with Publius Federalista about how Paper X was originally intended, before he starts wavin’ that famous scribble [ http://tinyurl.com/ykmr5bl ] around as if it possessed mystical powers of nullification on grounds of contamination by icky Faction.
[3] Blimpius does, however, seem to be subliminally or inadvertently fallin’ in with the straw-dog version of _Finanzkapitalismus_ associated with the late Dr. Marx and Mlle. Luxemburg, “_Die proletarische Bewegung ist DIE SELBSTSTäNDIGE BEWEGUNG DER UNGEHEUREN MEHRZAHL IM INTERESSE DER UNGEHEUREN MEHRZAHL. Das Proletariat, die unterste Schichte der jetzigen Gesellschaft, kann sich nicht erheben, nicht aufrichten, ohne daß DER GANZE UEBERBAU der Schichten, die die offizielle Gesellschaft bilden, IN DIE LUFT GESPRENGT wird_.”
_Und so weiter_.
Strike _Proletariat_, “the middle class.” Insert _Rasensäcke_, “(Astro)turfbags.”
Plus generally try to pretend you’re a wingnette or wingnut, Dr. Bones. Empathy, sir, that’s the ticket!
A pity Prof. Hofstadter cannot be with us, sir, now that there are dozens and dozens of _señoritos_ settin’ themselves up to be THE “Marx of the master class”! [ http://tinyurl.com/yzdlm9n ]
Blimp’s chances of winnin’ that competition are negligible, of course.
Re: 52. Aaron1982:
“I don’t know how he gets so much official mail. I got the census. …. Don’t know what Victor does to warrant so much scrutiny.”
Aaron, here are a few questions for you:
Do you live in California?
Do you own a farm?
Do you own a business?
Do you use your head?
Look at what VDH said and you will see that most are related to the above. With the exception of the last one.
We know VDH uses his head, that is why we are here.
It is time for civil disobediance.
Regardless of the site, regardless of author, the one consistent theme from Obamacare supporters (?) is personal attacks. They rarely, if ever, mention what’s in the bill – either because they don’t know or don’t care. They rarely, if ever, even discuss the pros and cons of changing the status quo. They don’t even praise their so-called leaders.
The one thing they do, without exception, is demonize. But are they demonizing GOP politicians? Of course not! They take aim at their peers – anyone writing well-reason, thoughtful pieces on the legislation and its consequences. The usual names are called and the writers are usually quick to praise their own intelligence while denigrating that of anyone who dares disagree with them.
To a neutral observer, expanding the welfare state to ensnare those who don’t need it and want no part of it is nonsensical, bordering on insane. It is revealing that supporters of Obamacare view it as punishment and political payback. On this, at least, they are correct.
Holy guacamole, what clueless, idiotic whining! The people spouting off about losing individual liberty and such seem very much the same ones showing blind, groupthink behavior in regurgitating every single bit of right wing nonsense floating about. If you can’t think individually and independently for yourselves, what makes you think you have any idea about what “individual liberty” even means?
Obama was just trying to fix a big and getting bigger problem with health care in this country. If you don’t like his solution, then blame your Republican leaders — they did squat about it all the years when they had the chance, and did nothing except throw rocks at Obama’s proposed solution without offering anything remotely non-moronic as an alternative.
Not so fast Victor.
At last count there were 36 states that had passed or introduced bills to block Obamacare. The Tea Party should focus on getting 34 states to convene a Constitutional Convention and then make it happen. This must be done on parallel with kicking the Democrats out of Congress this year and in 2012 and giving our Historic President an escort into the dust bin of history in 2012.
Since you used the Rubicon, remember Caesar’s act started a civil war. We can do the same but using the Constitution’s Article Five. Even if it means we split the nation into the Marxist states like California, Oregon, Washington, Washington DC, New York, Maryland, Michigan, etc.
Just as Caesar’s acts led to two civil wars and the establishment of a permanent autocracy (we call them “Czars” today for good reason) so must we rally to fight the political civil war that most now realize we are in. It should be very clear now that we will either have a Republic or we will have permanent dictators.
The Rubicon indeed!!
It’s just as foretold in Vonnegut’s short story, “Harrison Bergeron.” Everyone MUST be equal. Await the Handicapper General of the United States, Diana Moon Glampers.
“I live in Texas… maybe we could secede.”
We Texans must realize that the federal government is mostly our enemy. It is out to stick it to us good and hard. Thank God that Rick Perry appears to understand that our relationship with Washington, DC, is an adversarial one.
The Democratic Party is no longer a national party. It is now viable only in the bluest of districts. Purple and red state voters have to reform the Republican Party. We have no other choice because the third party option is utterly absurd. The GOP is the only game in town. America’s political system is premised on the Electoral College and the need for the winning presidential candidate to minimally capture 270 electoral votes. The United States does not have a parliamentary system!
Bravo Democrats. This is the beginning of a great future for our nation.
The Revolution has begun. Pray fellow Americans, as our forefathers did in the original Revolution, for help and guidance from God. Only with the help of God will we win this war. Pray now. Pray regularly. Pray earnestly. Thank you and may the peace of God which passeth all understanding be with you now and always.
M.D. Byron number 45 is obviously unaware that Syria took in Eichmann’s number 2 and put him to work for decades. Syria facilitates the terrorism of Hizbullah (responsible for the killing of US peacekeepers in Lebanon) and hosts a number of other terror organizations. Syria murdered thousands of its own citizens in the 1980s, murdered democratic Lebanese leaders in recent years, attempted to conquer Jordan in 1970 but at US request was stopped by Israel bringing troops to the area. And prior to 1967 Syria regularly lobbed shells on Israeli farmers when Syria held the Golan Heights. Iran, which has threatened to destroy Israel, took over our embassy keeping our personnel captive for 444 days. It funds Hizballah and Hamas (read their charters for Nazi style propaganda about Israel, Jews and the West), helps kill American troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, was responsible for the blowing up of the Jewish community center in the capital of Argentina in the mid 90s, and is developing nuclear weapons and long range missiles with the help of Communist China, KGB led Russia and communist North Korea. And its current President gave toy keys to the kingdom to Iranian children assigned to “martyr” themselves by walking over mine fields to clear the way for Iranian troops during the Iran/Iraq war of the 1980s. So, do you prefer Iran and Syria or our traditional ally democratic Israel?
number 67:
I wrote that yesterday, in the spirit of debate, but it is true that some are dying because of access to decent health care. You guys had your share of fairytales in the debate so stop your bellyaching and accept the things you can no longer change. Because change is coming.
To VDH Subscript:
Have you forgotten the last 8 years BEFORE Obama got elected? Those super slim majorities you mentioned and partisainship that drove legislation was all there under the “Great White Hope” that was W. Bush. Now that Republicans are getting a taste of what Democrats felt for 8 years, now they cry foul. Where were their voices protecting our rights, our views back then? Neither party listens except to those who provide millions of dollars to them. And with the repeal of financial regulation thanks to a Supreme Court packed with conservatives there will be millions more dollars coming into politics…and they have the gall to say we (that is the American people) want MORE of this? Quit whining, we’ll survive, our country will find a way to move beyond this and both parties will change this legislation up so much everyone will get a chance to be unhappy about it. Much like all previous legislation.
Well now, how about the positive view in the aphorism of danger = opportunity? The opportunity to use the current crisis to reaffirm the 10th amendment by taking the stand that this massive overreach of the federal government itself is unconstitutional.
Would it be possible for tea party to morph into a 10th amendment movement? I would think so, as the tea party is largely libertarian in its perspective, and what could be more libertarian than limiting the power of the central government. This would mean subjecting every state official to take a position on this issue. The objective would be the reached critical mass, at the state level, to reaffirm the Federalist system with its original perspective: that the ultimate source of political power resides with states and its people.
This really would be standing up to political class of big central government.
Federalisms allows the states to pursue social social welfare policies to the degree they wish, but does not allow the imposition of this expansion of economic and political control byf the political class on other states through the central government.
The failure to maintain the system of federalism will increase strains and friction between states. The rumblings of succession by the fringes will increase and could cause real problems.
A constitutional convention to force a real national discussion about our out-of-control centralized government should be done by calm, thoughtfull, but firm citizens.
AND NOW IT BEGINS…THE FIGHT FOR THE REPUBLIC.
But unfortunately, while the battle lines are drawn, tens of thousands of small businesses that are barely making money, or losing money, will begin to look at what their immediate future looks like.
Many small businesses will close because the sheer uncertainty of a socialist government. Each part of the government I send reports to is increasing penalties, interest etc. Now we have a new entitlement. The lie is that there are tax credits which sound like a good thing. the problem is you either have to buy health insurance for employees then get a tax credit that pays for part of it or pay a penalty. Either way, both are extra expenses the company has to pay.
You are about to see hundreds of thousands of small businesses do what they have to do…close, shed employees, go to cash.
How many individuals and businesses are GOING TO GO GALT? Tens of thousands, it is only natural and sensible.
We will fight this but that does not mean we won’t do what is practical for our family and businesses. I believe with all of my heart conservatism will win out…eventually. The uncertainty in the market has just ramped up. People will be even more careful. Sales and commerce will go down. We, conservatives, don’t trust this government or the people that run it. Until we get them out, we will conserve what little we have. It only makes sense.
Rather than a Con-Convention, it would be easier to talk to the States about a “paper” revolution. A “divorce” from Washington. Each state stands up for their soveriegnty.
Washington ignores their state authority, 38 states don’t recognize Washington’s. Let them try to balance the fed budget with 12 states.
Good luck with that one, skippy.
38 states could keep every nickel, no one in those states pays federal taxes – only SS taxes. (Made a promise to the Seniors, gotta keep the promise.) Just imagine the flight to those states to keep more of your money.
Another thing, heads up, the recon bill has the public option in it again. The media isn’t reporting that to you.
Beauty is, the Recon bill has major problems. It references Social Security, and a recon bill only needing 51 votes cannot do that, it violates the Social Securities Act.
The Senate repubs requested a bipartisan meeting with the parlementarian to get a ruling prior to the house vote to warn the house, what they sent to the Senate violates the law.
The Senate dems sucker punched the House dems. They refused to get a ruling prior to the house voting, so now, if the recon bill falls, the House dems don’t have a shield for voting for the Senate bill.
Yep, the Senate Dems refused to find out if the House dems were voting on a bill that can’t be fixed with what the House sent them.
Doncha just love the dishonesty of the democrats? Even in their own party. Senate Dems just hosed the House Dems.
They’re making the republicans look better and better all the time.
The nation is going to hate the democrats when they find this out.
I don’t have the energy to bitch about it anymore.
I’m pretty well beaten up.
This piece of work is almost enough to make one wish for Red China to put America out of her misery with a financial stake in the heart. Almost. Instead, we will fight Obama fascism with everything we have. If we go down, we will go down fighting to the last.
There is an element of grandiosity that betrays the ultimate intention.
re: 14, Michael Elmwood. Are you serious? You gauge how good someone is by their accomplishment of their goals? Well, Lenin and Hugo Chavez have both accomplished their goal of Communizing their nations. And now, so has Obama! You perfectly represent the problem in America today, way to many unthinking people that think politics is just a game. Wait till you have cancer and hear from your congresscritter on your final appeal for treatment: seems it’s just not cost effective to treat you comrade. But you should really consider suicide, or better yet, let the State put you out of your misery so you don’t waste resources, you selfish, unsocialist scum. Have a GOOD day COMRADE
Batty-Batty-Batty won the day with a mixture of lies and threats, fear and hatemongering. A historic victory for those who VOTE FOR A LIVING as opposed to those of us who actually WORK FOR A LIVING. God save us, but I fear it may be too, too late. America the great experiment is over. Decline and decay are in the air…
Remember, in those 38 states, you even have DEMOCRATS in the state houses supporting the challenge from the states to the Feds.
45% of democrats in the nation don’t support what these guys are doing. Yep, almost half of their own party doesn’t even support this.
You would stand a better chance talking to the state legislatures about a paper “divorce” from Washington until Washington recognizes the states’ authority and states’ rights.
Tell Washington, we want a divorce. And we won’t reconcile until you figure out who has soveriegnty over the people who live here.
In the meantime, watch Washington wither and crumble under the weight of its debt, with only 12 states paying Federal taxes. The 38 states are contiguous – they could operate smoothly without interference.
Remember, this is America, we can do anything. When you have 70% of the nation telling a group of people “no” and they won’t listen – it’s time for the states to stand up for us, since Washington refuses to listen.
Personally, I think this is good news for the country. Now the GOP won’t wring its hands endlessly about the “nuclear option” before being cowed into submission by the MSM. The thin veneer of political civility is off in this country, and now everyone — in both parties — is free to engage in power politics.
M. Andrew R., 8 years…really? Are you intentionally ignoring when the Democrat’s congressional majorities began, or just unintentionally emptyheaded?
- So what does comprehensive really mean…
In the context of the State, it means what it meant last week and what it will still mean tomorrow: totalitarianism.
Obama convinced the Democrats that the 1994 Republican revolution was because Democrats failed to pass health care reform. Sure since Democrats failed, the voter decided to vote in REpublicans on the hope they would succeed ot pass it.
Clearly, the blood letting in ’94 was because the dem’s even tried. 2010 will tell the story.
Here’s the real question – what have they put in this bill that will buy them votes between now and 2010 vs. what is in the bill that tick people off between now and then. Are there immediate goodies that people won’t want to lose vs. immediate pain that the folks will blame on the dem’s ?
We’ll find out shortly. If the bill wasn’t written with that in mind then the Dem’s really are morons.
A commentary that, I fear, will prove all too true. We are turning into a nation ruled by a small, aristocratic elite that has abandoned the rule of law for the rule of ideologues and is willing to enforce its dictates throught the police power of the state.
Also, why did you violate your own guidelines and publish the profanities and ad hominem attacks by “Robotech Master”?
Quit whining. Repubs had their chance to pass health care legislation for years, but their little egos wouldn’t care for the welfare of their brothers. The hypocrites will be the first in line for all the new benefits. Shut up!
Find and join a local Tea Party. Commit to going once a month. Try to bring a friend. Read every week about our history and constitution.
To answer the final question: the Democrats do not intend ever to be in the minority. They have and will game the system to ensure that result.
They did it for OUR FOUNDER! http://www.FATBOY.cc
Free Health Care for the WORLD!
If you can get here – http://www.BorderInvasionPics.com
Progressive trolls: BC, name just three things the healthcare bill will accomplish for Americans excluding covering 30 million (?) uninsured?
PC: “…it is true that some are dying because of access to decent health care.” Really?? I’d like to see those references citing this allegation. Make sure you use either the CDC or AMA please. Heck I’ll accept HHS stats on this just for sh&%$ and giggles.
Andrew R: What legislation would that be? Medicare part D for the seniors that all the Dems supported? Would that be the Patriot Act that was largely supported by both sides and there has NEVER been a court case submitted regarding a loss of liberties. What legislation or great one??? What rights? DO you racist leftist need special rights now? Certainly you jest about the SCOTUS being packed with conservatives; your hyperbole is off the charts… So you just want your side to be the beneficiaries of millions from the unions, foreign nations, 527s and Wall Street, eh?
Can other legislations that will bring a new flood of illegal aliens or raise our utility bills by 50% be passed like this? Once those of us that still have jobs see the withdrawal from our paychecks and no benefits for 4 years it may, and I mean may, shock us in to voting this November. The number of layoffs in health care won’t start for sometime and maybe by then the 159 federal agencies can get their patient compliance offices in place in the hospitals and clinics. The last part is just a joke, or is it?
“M.D. Byron number 45 is obviously unaware that Syria took in Eichmann’s number 2 and put him to work for decades. Syria facilitates the terrorism of Hizbullah
To this idiot leftard that is a attribute not an flaw. Because like all the nitwit leftist he fell for the stupidest propaganda and the Jordanians who state in their charters for killing all the JEWS and driving them into the sea are really the peace lovers. His ultimate day of joy will be when the Palistinian Jordanians can unencumberly massacre a couple of thousand Israeli Jews, because they have been asking for it for decades.
Ulitmately what you will find is that these idiots, think MD Byron, are too stupid to think and fall for the silliest pronoucement of any fool they encounter so in their twisted logic they need government to take care of every facit of their life so they can get on with smoking dope and boozing 24/7 without having to answer to the man.
Obama’s Welfare Nation will vote for anyone who promises to exchange good booze and goodies for their vote.
@87. M. Andrew R.: – Have you forgotten the last 8 years BEFORE Obama got elected?
You’ve committed an endpoint selection error.
Six of those years are hard to forget, unless of course one was never properly weaned off of The Left Wing Media, in which case they were never known to begin with.
- All-time record high federal tax revenue, achieved by cutting taxes, not increasing them.
- Average unemployment of about 5.3%.
- A further shift of the income tax burden onto wealthier Americans, and an increase in the size of the “coddled classes” – i.e., those tax filers who pay no tax and/or who benefit from unconstitutional wealth redistribution via “tax credit” checks.
- A historically short, shallow recession following the dot-com debacle and 9/11.
- Growth in real, personal disposable income of about 9%.
- Full congressional approval for military action in Iraq – notable in passage for its bipartisan support.
- Average 3% per year economic growth / 20% real economic growth overall.
- Deficits shrinking steadily from 2004 through 2007.
- Revenue and spending trends pointing to a balanced budget by late 2008.
- Outright refusal by congressional Democrats to clean up the GSEs (what was that about the Republicans’ use of ‘slim majorities’??) – the linchpin in the credit meltdown which, through what can only be seen as divine intervention, miraculously occurred at precisely the point in 2008 where BHO’s election changes began flagging.
- Oh yes, and year upon year of persistent lies, misrepresentation, hypocrisy, double standards, innuendo, fauxtography and outright treason by The Left Wing Media – all aimed at the demonization of George W. Bush, his administration, Republicans and conservatives in general, and culminating in their arrogant boast of handing BHO 15% in 2008.
It’s also hard to forget what’s happened over the past three years, since the quisling Democrats took control of the economy and the nation’s purse strings in 2007.
- The federal deficit was immediately jacked up by 200% and, since 2007, has been exploded BY A FACTOR OF TEN TIMES (soon to be much, much more).
- Unemployment officially doubled (actually tripled).
- An extended recession. Double-dip recession looms – certain to be widened and deepened into a Second Great Depression through the imposition of every mistake FDR made, and some he never would have dared.
- Criminal enterprises like ACORN have been re-funded through Executive fiat.
- And now, the road to serfdom has been paved with the takeover of the health care insurance economy, which will do absolutely nothing to bring skyrocketing health care costs under control – notable in passage only for its bipartisan opposition.
Credibility tip: get out more.
Talk of a 51% conservative majority using tactics similar to what the current liberal majority used to pass health care is misguided. Most conservatives will not advocate this while campaigning and they surely will not do it while governing. Item: a Republican (admittedly, not conservative) senate approved all Clinton supreme court appointees. Item: a Republican administration and congress did not push through permanent tax cuts. Item: a Republican administration and congress did not open up Alaska’s North Slope for drilling.
To think that “Things will be different the next time Republicans are in power” is foolish. Too many will take the high road, or make misguided appeals to bipartisanship. Republicans don’t realize that American politics is no longer about governing. It’s class warfare, with no rules.
50 years from now, when historians are pondering how/why the US lost its superpower status and morphed into a weak western socialist country with a gutted economy, they’ll look to yesterday’s vote as the starting point. Our national debt is now $12T with Obama smartly on track to jack it to $19T (some estimate say $24T)…and that’s assuming Obamacare is deficit neutral. Of course, we all know (including the Left) that Obamacare doesn’t come within a light year of being deficit neutral…the CBO estimate are based on ludicrous assumptions.
M. Andrew R: “Quit whining, we’ll survive, our country will find a way to move beyond this . . .”
It will be a far different country, as Hanson points out. Values will change, freedom diminish, entrepreneurship wither, our global influence for the good grow smaller. The left will find all this congenial, as it will longer lines, more red tape, a suppression of exceptionalism in the interests of a more democratic mediocrity. We will become a more cautious, mollycoddled society, nannied at every turn. Legislators will become more isolated and more arrogant. Nancy Pelosi-like use of government amenities like military jets and motorcades will expand. Yes, it is a brave new world we’re entering.
The ignorance of economics on the left is striking. They see what they believe to be a need and they will find a solution even if it lowers our bond rating to BBB. What’s that, they say ? Medicare is scheduled to run out of money in seven years. They remind me of the old (and sexist) joke about the housewife who says, “I can’t be overdrawn ! I still have plenty of checks !”
We will pay for this in many unpleasant ways but Congressman Stupak will pay first. Look at his opponent’s facebook page. He is a surgeon who has practiced for 37 years in Stupak’s district. When I joined the group yesterday, he had 1100 members. Look at it now, in less than 24 hours. He has never run for office and doesn’t even have a web site donation button, He will, though. We need a Congress of such people.
Comrades, the President B. Hussein Obama is a Great man!
“Bush forced an unwanted war into Americans’ throats.”
Shut up, you lying POS. Democrats argued for the removal of Saddam — a Democrat president signed a bill making his removal the official policy of the US! — and they voted for the declaration of war.
Plus — Bush liberated millions from a dictator. Obama’s not just coddling dictators around the world, he’s striving to become one. Don’t believe me? Well, the legislation you’re crowing about gives the government more access to your personal information than was ever dreamed of under the much-maligned (and lied about) Patriot Act.
How many Marxist-Democrats does it take to screw in a light bulb?
None: light bulb contains seed of its own revolution.
Indeed, the counter-revolution will be swift and merciless come November. A republic is generally slow to move unless seriously provoked, but I reckon Democrats don’t read history. Besides, a bill this large is bound to be riddled with provisions that are clearly unconstitutional. The next stop for this monstrosity will be the courts.
I’m of the opinion now that this wanton style of government has a malign and malicious end in mind. How much more evidence do we need that the Marxist-Dems are true totalitarians? How will their cracked social and economic theories stack up against a fully aroused citizenry? The crisis we face was spawned deliberately. We’re playing for all the chips now. I still have my money on the republic.
“Obama was just trying to fix a big and getting bigger problem with health care in this country.”
By making it a bigger problem, and setting in stone the worst aspects!
I’d like to commend our astro-turfers: you’re getting better, but you need to work on your accent. If you understood the value of personal freedom, you’d sound more convincing–but then you wouldn’t be Leftist dupes, would you?
And to those crowing about the “greedy” opposing this abomination of a bill — what’s more “greedy”, wanting to keep the results of your own labor, or demanding to live off the labor of others?
“And with the repeal of financial regulation thanks to a Supreme Court…”
No such thing happened. Stop lying.
No professional politician at the Federal level represents it’s District. The reality is such creatures represent: 1. The Party 2. Monied Special Interests 3. The Party (in the Stupak case).
Government By the People, For the People is, in their minds, laughable. THEY are the Center of the Universe around which everything else orbits.
Plato was right, they are prisoners in a cave who cannot move and see nothing but shadows on the wall they face.
As to the postscript: They don’t plan to ever be in the minority again. They will use the combination of millions of new government employees and government dependents, amnesty for illegal aliens, and massive vote fraud to ensure that there will never again be an honest election in America.
America is in the greatest danger it has ever seen since 1861.
Crossing the Rubicon: after Caesar crossed the Rubicon, igniting civil war, he won. Perhaps a different metaphor could be appropriate.
Just think of how much money you are going to save by not needing car insurance and businesses will be able to eliminate workmans compensation since everyone will have their own health coverage. O happy day. In fact the only insurance needed would be to replace stuff that is lost in some sort of event. There will be a decline in lawsuits since there will be no debate about medical bills.
DElia gets it.
Socialized medicine will lead to stifling taxes, permanent 8-10% unemployment, low GDP. Families will struggle to make ends meet and the birth rates for citizens will decrease. meanwhile, Obama will open the border and import poverty and baby machines.
Low GDP and higher entitlement needs will lead to an unsustainable government with fewer federal revenues to support the behmouth. At some point, move your dollars to gold. US dollar will be worth little.
11. David W. Lincoln: “Frankly, folks, those who have their passports, start looking at the countries in the British Commonwealth for places to relocate to.”
Great idea! Then you’ll get universal healthcare instead of the half-way measure just passed by congress.
but it is true that some are dying because of access to decent health care. You guys had your share of fairytales /////
EVERYONE has access to health care. It is called an emergency room.
Some are denied certain procedures and medicines. JUST WAIT. To control ballooning medical costs, the government will ration care. Medicare will deny life savign medicine b/c it is too costly. Mediciare will cut off dialysis at certain ages.
You libs asked for it. Enjoy!
Costa Rica, Panama look good to me.
My thought is that amnesty is next–and perhaps that will cement a liberal electoral majority. The liberal republicans are already for that. The country is on an unstoppable path to an insolvency crisis, and I am simply researching how one best survives the financial failure of one’s government.
I fear a “perfect storm” whereby the last generation’s (or more?) education comes to haunt. Does the nation really understand the historical meaning of this boondoggle? Creeping socialism is still socialism…What hath our nation wrought?
but it is true that some are dying because of access to decent health care. You guys had your share of fairytales
/////////////
NO ONE is denied access to health care. It is called an emergency room.
Under Obamacare, there will be rationing to control costs. Medicare will deny expensive treatment/medicine. Dialysis will no longer be offered for life. Lines to get in will occur. Taxes will be stifling.
You libs wanted this. Enjoy
I will note that Bush and the republicans did absolutely nothing about tort reform when they had the chance. So, there are no politicians willing to take on the plaintiff’s lawyers.
Bush and the Christian Democrats (RINO) was just obama lite and bush laid the groundwork for all that has followed.
“And with the repeal of financial regulation thanks to a Supreme Court packed with conservatives there will be millions more dollars coming into politics”
Please stop the whining. Obama took God knows how much in illegal campaign contributions when he disabled the AVS system. Now you guys hate because the someone else might be able get away with this sort of skulduggery.
From my understanding a majority of the States are writing legislation to avoid this little piece of dung they passed last night. Why not make the work worth while and make it a Constitutional Amendment? Make this and all entitlements a State issue untouchable by the Federal Government.
By the way all these people that say this cannot be repealed; we repealed Prohibition and it was a Constitutional Amendment not some piddly bill.
I’ve been a practicing libertarian since Ron Paul was the party Prez candidate. Today I’m going to the Republican Party HQ to volunteer.
How shall citizens of the Republic endeavor in good faith to reason with Americans who insist that license dispensed by their liege’s hand, is greater than liberty bestowed by our creator?
Rubicon indeed.
Barry intends to slap the USA down to a second-rate former world power. Clearly, he believes we deserve it. And he’s not coy about it. He won, we lose.
After the Marxist Ceasar there may be a counter move from a Sulla.
As for battle plans they are already made, and the troops are already on the road.
Have faith in the far future, be pessimistic about tomorrow, and fight the miserable communists of every day. SAT CONG!
By the increasingly circular, self-confirming tone of conservative thought. This article exhudes that tone: Pelosism, The Fedopus, The Federal Caring Creed, talk of “Revolutionary Times.” These are newly born proper nouns that simplify and obscure thought, not invite thought. The right is becoming more anthemic, more self-referencing, developing its own language outside of the mainstream of american political thought. Sometimes I flip between Fox and other channels and its like I’m living in 2 different countries. Fox News throws around nouns like “connecticut,” “cornhusker kick back,” as if there audience implicitly understands what these nouns are shorthand for.
Meanwhile, I think this will be about as far as Obama will or can go in terms of increasing the scope of the federal gov’t. He’s spent the capital he had with his party, they’ll lose some seats in november, and next year will be all about debt reduction. So I’m not so sold on the crossing the rubicon manifesto. Yeah, maybe he crossed a line. But next congress, he’ll have to shirk back to the other side. Which is not what one does when one crosses the figurative rubicon.
Robotech Master? ROBOTECH MASTER?!
Are you kidding me? What are you: twelve years old? Or are you developmentally arrested at twelve, circa 1985?
Seriously, who (as an adult) goes around fashioning himself after cartoon characters that went off the air twenty years ago? No wonder you have taken a fancy to ObamaCare: living in Mommy’s basement, you want someone else to take care of all your needs and wants while you waste away your “adult” years pining pathetically for your childhood…
What a loser.
84. tgs: “The Revolution has begun. Pray fellow Americans, as our forefathers did in the original Revolution, for help and guidance from God. Only with the help of God will we win this war. Pray now. Pray regularly. Pray earnestly. Thank you and may the peace of God which passeth all understanding be with you now and always.”
My, the right-wingnuts have become absolutely unhinged.
“Because change is coming.”
You can count on it. Change is coming the morning of Nov. 3. It will be an absolutely beautiful day and it will be a day of reckoning for the Democratic Party.
The take over of student loans was included in the bill passed last night.
This is just the beginning, look at all they have taken over already. The progressives have been waiting 75 years for this time. America as we have known it will be gone in 4 years. If you work for a living, have fun checking in with the IRS cops every month and paying one third of your gross income for health insurance.
VDH, I had the distinct displeasure of reading the comments after your essay.
“Quit your whining”, “you greedy, racist do-nothings”, and after reading the referenced Ron Rosenbaum’s articles…talk about a man who is unhinged…and given a byline here at PJM.
The little cheerleaders for every leftist power grab, resorting to their usual and customary slobbering tripe. Feeling their oats today and soiling the landscape with their verbal road apples tomorrow.
They “won”, don’t you see? The succeeded in bankrupting a nation, leaving our children and our children’s children with a debt so mountainous, so ruinous, that they shall inherit a permanent depression and dependency habit.
This is all based upon The Big Lie. You see it on these pages. Republicans offered no alternative. A lie. This is going to “help” millions of Americans. A lie. This is going to improve the quality of life for the “needy”. A lie.
That this isn’t going to rip more dollars from the average American’s pocket. A lie.
That this is not part of a grander scheme to overturn our government. A lie.
That this is not a power grab of the ENTIRE American economy. A lie.
That they haven’t forever changed the rules about laws get passed in this nation. A lie.
That they haven’t shredded the Constitution. A lie.
And how do they get away with all this. The American Media has an agenda. That agenda?
To lie.
Today it is very, very difficult to avoid using profanity, foul language and ad hominem attacks, which are specifically prohibited. Unlike the Democrats, I will follow the rules. Accordingly I have nothing else to say.
1. Prediction: The Dems won’t be able to restrain themselves in the bill signing ceremony. Expect an NFL-style endzone dance.
2. Bart Stupak was totally jobbed by the Dems. How could he fall for such a thing? The Dems are laughing behind his back.
3. I never want to hear the word “historic” again.
What was really historic was how the elected representatives ignored the will of the voters.
All the features of Black Rule..no matter where it occurs.
Zimbabwe or Detroit, Uganda or Newark
1. Cult of Personality.
2. Distribution of rewards to those who support the Cult.
3. Milking of the productive classes while denigrating
them as “racist”.
4. Accentuation of grievances, real or imaginary.
5. Destruction of all means of independence from the Cult.
5. Retreat into fantasy when the real world closes in.
Mugabe or Marion Barry, Idi Amin or Kilpatrick, Nagin or Zuma.
Obamacare is the culmination of 50 years of continuous, persistant, methodic tax funded indoctrination of Americas’ young. While repubs were fighting for tax cuts for corporations Leftists were taking control of schools, NPR and PBS. While Repubs were fighting for a strong military, leftists were taking control of the courts. We omitted the weightier matters. Now we lose even what we had.
Dennis Kucinich said it in one sentence with the most truthful moment of clarity that transcended the debate over health care. “You do have to be very careful that the potential of President Obama’s presidency not be destroyed by this debate.”
This is about Obama, nothing else, nothing more. This is about the moment in history much like the ones Democrats use when they invoke Roosevelt and LBJ. Social Security, Medicare, and Civil Rights were all passed under a Democrat presidency. What is not mentioned is that all three were passed with bipartisan support. Democrats and Republicans worked together on all three.
Republicans were NEVER asked for input on either the House our Senate versions of the bill. They were excluded from the beginning and the hysteria in the press, from liberals and Democrats was nothing but a smoke screen. They knew from the beginning they had their members on board. They knew from the beginning Stupak was a hollow man who would betray his personal convictions, if they were ever real, for the sake of the party and Obama.
Any sensible person who had any reasoning ability knew the bill would eventually pass. It was the right time in history, it was the right person in the White House, and the right leaders in both houses were in place. Watching this play out over the course of time gave me pause to consider the why. Why would Democrats take such a chance on losing control of congress and the White House over a controversial bill? Why? They thought it out and understood how the mind of America works. They know there won’t be much of an impact over the next few months and they will be able to frame their campaigns on that fact.
They also understand the opportunity at hand wouldn’t come along again for decades and this is their moment, their opportunity, their historical impact on America’s future. Again, the perfect storm. The first black president, a super majority in congress, a wish list garnered over several decades since Roosevelt, an economic downturn, an unpopular war, a press controlled by like minded individuals, and public unrest at an all time high.
How this will play out over the next 228 days will be the tell for America. If the passage of the bill moves onto the back burner along with Cap and Trade and a few others, i.e., TARP and Stimulus, memories will become a little hazy and the impact less severe. After all, we do get over hurt feelings rather easily given sufficient time. 228 days in politics is a lifetime and with a successful campaign, Democrats will easily overcome the public’s disappointment of the moment.
I don’t anticipate a Republican landslide come November. The divide in this nation is just too great to overcome. Those occupying the independent center have too many things on their minds, just trying to survive. Bills to pay, kids to educate, jobs to hold onto, and all of the little things that go into living from day to day. Most who opposed the bill will be re-educated and come around to the final conclusion of the inevitability of it all and accept one more intrusion as long as it doesn’t hurt too much.
We have been on this path for a long time and we should not be surprised at the passage of the bill. Little by little, bill by bill, America’s move to a socialist state was at a snail’s pace but no longer. Again, the perfect storm started by 9/11 has finally hit us full in the face. Now is the time for those who prefer a more socialist state to act and they are now wasting one moment.
We will as a nation continue on the path and will in time become a true socialist state. The one true thing is that transformation or change is the only constant. Like it or not, agree or not, fight against it or not, the time is at hand for America to embrace socialism.
Hurrah. We the unwashed and unthinking proles have at last managed to saddle the young (without regard to the youngs’ ability to pay) with much of the cost of healthcare and given a huge financial windfall to the insurance companies . Of course we call them greedy, just as we do the banks to whom we have given trillions to. It’s a good thing we proles dont think at all or all this would be sort of confusing ( Why do we give trillion of dollars to entities we claim to dislike ? ).
We wont understand the inflation that is the certain result of printing money to pay for programs the country cant afford, either . Just remember our gloating now when the hard times come and save your charity for the honest and the hard-working.
If you help a whining liberal survive they will only stab you in the back latter. So as the times get tougher don’t help them . Leave them to the economic misery they have created.
Hussien the deceiver. The best/worst is yet to come from the anti American exceptionalist. Way to go, MSM.
So, exactly when did the republic end and the empire begin?
Thank you for your insightful column. We have indeed crosses the Rubicon here and it’s time for We The People to take back our country. I watched last night as Dem after Dem gave their reasons for voting “Yes” and even though they claimed it was for US we know better. The battle does not stop here though because the gauntlet has been thrown down and Amnesty (Immigration Reform) is next. This is how Obama and the Dems will ad 12 million illegals to the voter rolls for the next elections and effectively stack the deck. I’m heating up the tar…who has the feathers?
All the democrats are baby murderers.
Kick them out of Congress.
NO BABY MURDERERS IN AMERICA’S CONGRESS
Zeig Hiel comrade Obama, Allah akbar !!!
Lot of nuts inBrazil!!
guess what, the sun came up this morning, the world seems no different than yesterday.
Dr Hanson, you seem like a smart guy, but sound like a grouchy grandad of the “worlds going to hell” variety. The health bill passed yesterday seems quite modest not only in comparison with the rest of the industrialized world, but also withe what we give the elderly in this country, i.e. single payer, semi-socialized medicine and I have not seen much advocacy of its repeal.
We in the US live in complicated society, with complex social, financial arrangements spread out over a number of diverse regions. In order to sustain these arrangements for the well being of the country as a whole, some sort of safety net is needed. The “go it alone” society with everybody dependant only on themselves entirely and at all times is fantasy whose time passed probably about 100+ years ago with the closing of the american frontier and as a result of changes in the rest of the world.As the tea party, anti war and other protest movements show, there is plenty of freedom in this country. I think people ought to step back and relax, get ready to fight the next election, and see what happens.
wow the trolls prove again they are poor winners as well as poor losers.
and too stupid to realize that they lost too.
keep up the good work VDH …but remember you are still too kind to Obama ..he is much worse then you describe.
he is maybe the evilest person ever elected in the USA
I tend to agree with Mr. Hanson but some of the blame must be placed on Republicans.
To paraphrase Mr. Rumsfeld, you have to win elections with the electorate you have not the one you would like to have. Bush and Karl Rove’s “family values” are simply not acceptable to many of the independent voters in this country.
The Democrats may lose the next election but the Republicans are not likely to win unless they overcome their lack of appeal to female voters.
A Louisiana governor once said he would have to be caught in bed with a live boy or dead girl to lose the election. At the national level, the live boy may longer be a disqualification.
Hell, Barry Goldwater could not have pleased those two.
It is interesting to note that on this date in history.
The Stamp Act was passed by Parliament on March 22, 1765 with an effective date of November 1, 1765. It passed 245-49 in the House of Commons and unanimously in the House of Lords
# 87. M. Andrew R.:
Once again you need to be reminded of elementary civics. The Democrats have had the majority in Congress since 2006. They immediately started their tax, stangle and spend love fest. Prior to Obama being elected, 2005, and so many other Democrats who found a way to deny they voted for a war (Kerry, I voted for it before I voted against it ring a bell?) and a feeble, uninformed voting public, unemployment was under 5%. As you can see, it doubled in just a few short years. For that we can thank Democrats.
M. Andrew R:
Please be specific on what legislation the Republicans rammed through this way. The temporary tax-cut was along party lines, I can’t think of anything else.
A few weeks ago, Hanson wrote that Obama was a weak, ineffectual president. Now he’s screaming that Obama is a ruthless dictator.
The truth is that VDH is a vassal of the Cheney clan, who will say absolutely anything and contradict himself again and again, without a shred of conscience.
Alas, all the elected officials serving my area are Republicans. I have no one to vote out of office!
The anology to the Rubicon is very apropos. Passage of this bill is our nation’s Cesar crossing the Rubicon moment. For those educated after 1970, Julius Cesar was a Roman general ruling Roman’s northern provinces who was ordered home by the Senate to face charges of treason. The Rubicon was the river that formed the border of the territory he governed and that controlled by the Senate. When Cesar crossed the Rubicon he led his army against the Senate of the Republic and won control of all Roman territories. This was the end of the Roman Republic and the Roman Empire was born. The Republic had become corrupt and the people were dependent and easily bought, hence the term the mob to describe them. Cesar was just the last and most successful in a long line of self centered and controlling thugs to come out of the dying Republic.
Obama has crossed his Rubicon and is leading his socialist troops against the Constitutional Republic. Today the issue is whether those of us who still support our Republic outnumber the moochers and thugs that make up his army. Listening to this “debate” is not encouraging. There seems to be little understanding of the principles at stake. The mob wants it free medical care and ignores the fact of TANSTAFL. When I read what liberal progressives are writing it is clear they have no comprehension of either TANSTAFL or of American Liberty and are willing slaves to the state. Are there enough of them to destroy the country or can we reclaim it? The next few years will answer that question. To paraphrase Patrick Henry. Give me Liberty or give me the death panel.
The entire seedy spectacle is the culmination of several points:
1. Americans really do get the government they deserve. If we are not going to educate our kids to respect and love our country and understand the circumstances of its founding, we cannot stand around wondering why socialist ideas take hold and flourish.
2. Punishing the Republican party by staying home or voting 3rd party had little effect on the Republicans, but the rest of us are about to feel pretty darn punished.
3. The current Dem leadership are autocrats — they have proven that they will do ANYTHING to move their agenda forward, constitutional or not, legal or not, based in truth or not. To them, the ends truly justify the means.
4. Americans get the gov’t…pt 2. If we do not turn out representatives and senators regularly, they get power-crazed and become truly dangerous. The fact that Nancy Pelosi has the power to be anywhere near where laws are made is a crime, and if voters don’t start dealing with them properly, these petty royalty wannabes grow into dangerous and tyrannical people.
5. Dems who claim to be pro-life cannot exist; the party’s goals and values are not consistent with a pro-life position. If one is truly pro-life then one cannot be a democrat, and vice-versa. Stupak proved this, and also showed that anyone who claims to be both is either a liar or an opportunist.
6. Americans have lost their claim to liberty. We can regain it, but it will require action. Whether this action is at the ballot box or at the end of a rope is up for argument, but continuing to let these thieves run the show (in both parties) is proof that we don’t deserve what the Founding Fathers gave us and our own grandfathers saved for us.
7. Rome, 1st century. It honestly would not surprise me to see Dear Leader nominate his dog for the Senate.
Remember the Golden Rule:
The ones who have the gold make the rules.
Bankrupt Blue states, (Ca.&Co.) are ruling
on credit, and the bills are coming due;
Pelosi, and the rest of the Ca. Cong. Del.
will be held responsible, and lose office;
Their replacements, and the rest of the
CongressCritters will learn by example,
or if sufficiently crazy, by repetition.
We have a lot of liberal trollers. Do they get paid for their nutty invective?
With very humble apologies to VDH and those others here who no doubt have more recently studied Roman history than I, this is a brief (as I recall what my betters tried to teach me forty years ago) summary of what led to the Rubicon which I hope helps some people who are only vaguely familiar with the crossing of the Rubicon. I hope it helps at least in general terms to put some context to that event and ask your forgiveness for not at least having watched the no doubt excellent History Channel programs about Rome which seem be on all the time.
Pompay had a heroic background, the support of those who wanted to keep their traditional republic, had successfully defeated populist threats that arose internally, was the one who had rid the Mediterranean of pirates once and for all ensuring a constant supply of grain at stable prices, and even smacked those uppity Jews down by first defiling their temple then offering them an olive branch by putting a Jewish faction in power and allowing them to cleanse the temple. Yes, those wanting to retain the tradition and structure of the public rather than giving in to the populist mob had a heroic leader. Just as the populists had had under Marius when they first tried to end the practice of citizens of Rome having rights superior to other Roman citizens.
Had Pompay the wisdom to deal with the underlying causes of populist support for Marius rather than simply enjoying the role of hero, he would have acted far differently after Marius had first tried to overthrow the government by inciting populist violence. By the time Caesar, himself part of the triumvirate of Pompay, Crassus, and Caesar, who together accomplished their goals of rewarding veterans, ensuring the system remained unchanged in spite of the recognized flaws, and made Caesar Consul then command in Gaul. While Caesar was occupied in Rome, Pompay lost a great deal of his popularity in spite of once again successfully handling issues associated with the grain supply from overseas due to the fact that many were unwilling to forgive the political missteps he had made when dealing with the exile and later the recall of Cicero who a large percentage of the traditionalists considered to be the very embodiment of traditional Rome and traditional Roman values.
Caesar, particularly with Pompay staying well out of the limelight in Rome and allowing the Cicero traditionalists to Rome, grew into the same sort of popular hero Pompay had been and was no longer content with a minority role in their triumvirate demanding and getting a five year extension of his control of Gaul. Both Pompay and Crassus were reelected to office although there was a great deal of anger over the violence and accusations of bribery that had taken place during the election. Unrest continued leading to the Senate House itself being burned down, and the Senate meeting with armed soldiers present, something that upset the traditionalists as well as the populists, and coupled with the traditionalists still resenting the way Pompay had dealt with Cicero, leading letting Pompay know he’d be held accountable and granted only limited powers even as they were depending on him to restore order in Rome. Pompay both restored order and continued to superficially remain allied with Caesar but at the same time put election reforms in place that would have threatened Caesar once he was out of office and make it impossible for him to remain in office unless he returned to Rome for the election rather than running in absentia while remaining in Gaul. The stage was set for Caesar to return to Rome at the end of his term, and that’s the point at which crossing the Rubicon comes into play.
If the Senate refuses to pass the “reconciliation” package or when Barry weasels out of the Executive Order outlawing federal funding of abortion, the most emotional of all the issues wrapped up in this unconstitutional power grab become the focal point for many, many, people. At that point, the camel will completely collapse, either into whimpering destruction or open rebellion against its’ master, because it’s the most emotional issues that seem to light the long line of issues trailed like gunpowder behind unpopular agendas. Will, at that point, it be those opposed to socialism following Caesar toward Rome, or will they be holding Rome sure they can back whatever Caesar attempts?
People just love to toss rotten eggs at GWB and his dad as well as any series of presidential events they find particularly odious, but you know, no matter how you frame the matter it’s still a fact that the House and the Senate make the law. For all the anger, there’s still so much factionalism in those opposed to this and other socialism that I don’t see how we’re going to do more than the same thing we did after the Reagan victories, or when we finally held sway in Congress. We’ll raise hell, sweep Congress, see this and maybe a couple of other things repealed, then settle back into making a buck and ignoring politics as if the war is over and the enemy totally destroyed. It seems like there is never a good enough reason hold the ground once we take it rather than descending into arguments regarding the count of angels and their associated pinheads. Well, Reagan was one battle. The Republican presidents and keeping them in check with conservative Congressmen were other battles. Eastern establishment BS and sucking up then regurgitating democrat propaganda has shot down every Republican gain since Reagan and is already hard at work here, something like 24 hours after the democrat socialists take over another huge chunk of the economy and your remaining freedoms.
People who want to end the unconstitutional march of the democrat agenda can take to the field and seize Rome then defeat the approaching army in order to save the Republic, or they can bunker up and prepare to defend themselves from the approaching army hoping to have sufficient forces join them before the enemy arrives. When the chit hits the fan, you go with the troops and equipment you have, not with what everyone agrees you should have, what the salty old timers told you you would need, or even with equipment that would be just fine had the troops been better trained and not worn it out prematurely. No, what you have is what you have to fight with, and in that situation tolerating or encouraging arguments and dissention in the ranks is absolutely insane. There will be fifth columnists, and there will be fresh waves of propaganda to play on the mind of your troops. In spite of that, if you cannot work with what you have, even those you think are weak links, all the while fighting with your worn out equipment and the limited supplies flowing along your tenuous supply, you lose.
All over PJ and elsewhere there are posts that echo the democrat line that was first successfully marketed in 2004 in spite of the fact that 9/11 was still fresh in the mind of the public. Each time the propaganda line is repeated, some are swayed to put their “independent” support behind the left, and others are swayed to give up, usually covering their retreat with “I told you so” and details of how hard they’ve fought in the past, or how well prepared their personal bunker is. It’s not compromising or giving in to gradualism that we all agree is unacceptable, that I’m talking about, it’s the jumping clear out of the water to take any bait democrats manage to toss toward the water. It’s the conservative penchant for seeking ever more purity from any who side with you before being in a position to even resist the democrat agenda. That’s what keeps us from ever having a united front, and that’s the main reason we were just handed a chit sandwich and told how we’re going to love choking it down.
What percentage of those spewing divisiveness are actually long term fifth columnists who wouldn’t thrive were we to follow Reagan’s 11th commandment more often? How many more Republicans, who were flawed in many ways but solidly anti-abortion or solidly against Federal expansionism, would it have taken to stop this? How different would our situation be had there been a literal handful, just five, more Republicans in the House? How well did it work out for you to stay home because retaining control of the House wasn’t as important as your pet peeve or because “they’re all the same”? Was it really better to go back to the many decades of democrat control in Congress than to choke down your pet peeve and work to make sure Republicans where the majority?
Regards
The test will be in November. The claim is that most Americans opposed this bill, yet it was passed based on complicated shenanigans. The test of the resolve of the electorate will be in November. Will Americans vote the bums out of power? Or will they just go with the flow? No change in November will show the “tea party” movement to be toothless tiger.
Failure to repeal this health care reform bill will abort the recovery. No company in their right mind is going to hire new employees and people who make more than $250,000 per year will adjust their work accordingly to reduce their income below this level. This is not the recipe for economic recovery.
If the voters fail to respond to this in November, all I can say is that the American people will get the government they deserve good and hard. The nature of my work may make it more conducive for me to relocate internationally next year.
VDH uncharacteristically wrote this with more passion which reflects that this fight is going to go to the streets even more.
Racism is fueling the leadership, read, Obama. This is all about Reparations plus interest.
The “health care” bill is just a necessary
step toward transfer of jobs. Ultimately all the government intervention will empower the government to be a single employer which will give preferences as VDH notes, Affirmative Action on steroids.
The old saying, you can give a hungry person a fish or teach him how to fish. Job transfer is the key to transfer of wealth and prosperity.
Revenge against all non minority people is what Obama desires from his heart. At the end of the day, jobs, property, and futures will be in the hands of a corrupt government which will be free to redistribute what once was in the hands of their perceived “oppressors” that is, middle America. Never mind that this transfer demands that minorities, who truly have suffered injustices in this country, will have to lose their personal identities and stories and be melded into whatever serves the purpose of the UberLeftists who are now in power. Everybody loses in this.
Buy real estate rather than get sidetracked on useless Republican politicians. The fight will end up on the streets, literally.
To all:
This is no victory for the left; it is a guarantee of violence in the future, not from the right but from the 2nd hander’s (parasites if you will) and the left.
Why? The money is gone. Let the blame game begin. Fools! Uncle Sam will try to bleed us to death but remember the rule; whatever you tax you get less of (politicians know this, they use it all the time to control behaviors).
So the real remaking of our society will not be through legislation but through violent upheaval. Congress just guaranteed it and there is no turning back now. For the left and the second hander’s health care is now a right that conservatives are trying to take away.
Of course states will fight to protect their rights from federal take over and they will be blamed first. The 2nd hander’s will be mobilized (a lot of them don’t work for a living, a readymade mob).
Get ready for it. Evil is at the door. Are these sins of the past, the present or both? You decide.
Gee, Mr. Hanson, I guess it’s all over. America’s finished, over, done for, upside down, the inmates are now running the asylum — the ethnic and sexual minorities, the fat people, the cigarette smokers, the lazy, the POOR… There’s probably no room for sensible white men of modest means and manners like you, or your schoolmarmish writings that tut-tut us all, every day. Too bad.
Wow, #75,, Hey Skippy, I’m sure you’re highly pleased with your erudite little satire, but it had to be the most incoherent steaming pile of horsecrap to come down the pike in a while. Get back on the meds, don’t submit that for your community college Civics 101 essay lest your idiocy be known by name.
“What’s wrong with reaching out to Syria and Iran, Mr. Hanson? You talk about these countries as if they were Nazi Germany.”
Scoop for M.D Byron: Iran and Syria are both brutal dictatorships.In the case of Iran, run by a religious fanatic with an apocalypse complex.The significant difference between these two thugocracies and NAZI Germany is that NAZI Germany was a modern state while these two are medieval.It is apparent from your comments that their actual attraction for you is their virulent anti-Semetism, which, of course is only another reason to deal with them like the Third Reich
I tend to agree with Mr. Hanson but some of the blame must be placed on Republicans.
To paraphrase Mr. Rumsfeld, you have to win elections with the electorate you have not the one you would like to have. Bush and Karl Rove’s “family values” are simply not acceptable to many of the independent voters in this country. Hell, Barry Goldwater could not have pleased those two.
The Democrats may lose the next election but the Republicans are not likely to win unless they overcome their lack of appeal to female voters.
A Louisiana governor once said he would have to be caught in bed with a live boy or dead girl to lose the election. At the national level, the live boy may no longer be a disqualification.
Democrats are counting on Republicans not knowing that the Rubicon has been crossed.
Progress apparently means equal poverty for all, abdication of personal responsibility and partisanship of epic proportions.
Welcome to the Brave New World.
#87. The American people have had the gall to change their minds. You can’t fool all of the people all the time.
Is it not amazing that the Weimar Republic was modelled on the American Republic! What parallels there are! Come to think of it—What parallels between the Weimar, American and Roman Republic!
Maybe, VDH, you should do a post on The Kyklos, how all democracies devolve into tyranny! (and by the way all and any **modern** republics are democracies anyway)
We are now in the civil wars of the Grachi, have been for 100 years. Our Tyrant approaches; Ceasar Obama Augustus.
“Japan Today; Zimbabwe Tomorrow!” Welcome to the Weimar Zimbabwe American socialist soviet raterrepublic.
I’m with M. Andrew R…. the Republican party should quit whining like a bunch of children… you guys sound exactly like the Dems crying to have their revolution whenever Bush did something bad. And now the tables have turned and the Republicans are acting the exact same way… holy shit the elected government did something that the minority party didn’t like! Let’s start a revolution!
It’s time for the Republican party to man up and deal with it.
“Have you forgotten the last 8 years BEFORE Obama got elected? ”
Bush had 77 votes in the Senate to invade Iraq. Moreover 30 out of 50 Democrats voted with Republicans.
Obama is much more partisan.
People are people. The more things change …. yada yada yada
The only thing that ever brought a lasting period of sanity to any society was christianity and of course they ( we ) mucked that up six ways to Sunday too.
Our Father, Thy Kingdom come. We have now thoroughly proven man is lost without you and we have surely taken ourselves out of your favor. Please Father, Thy will be done on earth.
As a European looking in on this discussion I find the article baffling and the comments even moreso. The simple fact is that America’s current healthcare system has failed – on the last occasion the World Health Organisation (in 2000) ranked the performance of country’s healthcare systems the USA came in at number 37 – behind every single western European country, barely beating Slovenia to the post but lagging behind Costa Rica. This was with the second highest per capita expenditure on healthcare after the Marshall Islands. Keep in mind this is before the spiralling cost of healthcare in the USA was noted and also before a great economic boom in many countries of central and eastern Europe as a result of EU membership – so this is probably quite a favourable picture compared to today.
If we look at the opposite extreme we have countries where the healthcare system is entirely funded by taxation and are free at the point of use without any insurance companies involved – what could legitimately be called socialised healthcare. It is used in some countries such as Greece and the UK, which come in at numbers 14 and 18 respectively and which spend around two third and a half respectively per capita (per person) for healthcare. It has also distinctly failed to kill off private healthcare despite being far more extensive than anything even floated by Obama’s Democrats – in the UK you can get health insurance for non-vital procedures, things like hip replacements or cosmetic surgery.
I’m not sure that this healthcare bill does enough – to be frank – the failings within the USA’s healthcare system run very deep and something far more radical is needed. If it succeeds in what it attempts to do however I’m certain that only those with extreme ideological views will object in twenty or thirty years time – when universal healthcare was first introduced in Canada the doctors had their houses attacked and were dubbed communists – yet now they are very proud of their healthcare system and the initial objections are mostly forgotten.
Also, just a few replies to some things which seem to have come up a fair bit:
First of all, liberty and capitalism are not the same thing – the UK is far more oriented towards capitalism on the whole than Sweden is yet Sweden’s systems of government are far more democratic than those of the UK.
Secondly, mia’s comment – I have no idea what point you were trying to make with your post – I have no idea who you think these radicals were, what you think they were doing and how you think this led to the problems you describe. Also, do you think that everyone who thinks opposition to this bill is selfish or stupid was around and in a position to do anything politically in the 60s and 70s? THEY can’t be hypocrites because they couldn’t've done whatever you said you though they’d done. This is without touching on people outsidee the USA.
How can you pin those problems on 60s liberals anyway? America has an obesity epidemic because people have diets high in saturated fat and simple sugars and because people walk less than in other countries because they are over-dependent on cars. Social inequality and bad or underfunded state-run schools would account for most of the rest and as for illegal immigrants and drugs – can you think of any developed country without them? If people want drugs enough they’ll get them regardless of legality, if people want to live in x country enough they’ll try and get there regardless of legality. It’s unavoidable.
Also regarding Thatcher – just don’t quote her. There are so many reasons why she’s an awful person to quote to support your argument – for the sake of brevity I’ll just say one thing. She never privatised the NHS.
Thirdly, the person quoting 1984: Orwell was a socialist – in the true sense. 1984 and Animal Farm object to Stalinism, not communism itself.
Fourthly, the person talking about Democrats “fearing Palin”. A system of universal healthcare was voted on in 1946 in the USA – I think and it was advocated by the president at the time 98 years ago too. I have a hunch that the people involved in these pushes for universal healthcare did not fear Sarah Palin. I don’t even know where to start on the “rebuilding the republic” comment.
Demint was right about Waterloo . . . right metaphor, wrong party.
#143. You left out Obama.
Rats. I meant to type #150 in post 182. [Stupid keyboard].
VDH: The number of comments on this post tells us that the battle has begun. This is not depressing news. It is a GOOD MAN telling us to fight back.
NOW fight back AMERICA. Big Time!
BE VERY STRONG!!!
P.S. California is already Brazil… lets save the other 49 states.
Do Democrats realize that we really have crossed the Rubicon? In the future when the Republicans gain majorities (and they will), the liberal modus operandi will be the model—bare 51% majorities, reconciliation, the nuclear option, talk of deem and pass, not a single Democrat vote—all ends justifying the means in order to radically restructure vast swaths of American economic and social life.
We are now liberated from being the “nice guys” who let the Democrats do whatever their little Marxist hearts desire. We have been taught a series of lessons. 1) Democrats are not our countrymen. They respect neither the rule of law, the Constitution, nor the mores that make a free society possible. 2) There is no such thing as a “moderate” or “Blue Dog” Democrat. They are all anti-American collectivists at heart, with some being better liars than others. 3) Since they do not play by the rules of the game [the Constitution, the law, basic human decency]; they deserve no consideration under those rules. Just as when this country has faced a foreign enemy who has tried to destroy us, we have to be as ruthless as they.
After that display of power mad brute force; unless they are smoking crack they cannot believe that if the American people are given a chance to vote, that they will not be ejected en masse. Given that the one point where politicians are serious is the maintenance of their own power, I think that the chances of a free election in November are pretty small. In which case, the lack of any rules restricting those opposing the regime will come in handy.
Subotai Bahadur
Wow, it scares me that there are so many ignorant, naive people out there that belive this is the end of our nation. Stop believe the lies of your own propaganda and start looking into the facts. You’ll be shocked to find that it is not as bad as you think
Crossing the Rubicon…certainly!
I think Ross Douthat had a better historical analogy though. Obama and the Democrats just took Moscow.
Shame on them.
We the People must stay energized…2010, 2012…I’m not leaving my beloved America, I’m fighting for Her.
God is STILL in control.
Secession?, guns?, revolution? These types of comments clearly reveal the low level of education and sophistication that exists in this country. We have, by virtue of this underwhelming health care legislation just barely entered the 20th century, let alone the 21st. Our country is so retarded with regard to social policy that the rest of the developed world can only laugh when some gun-threatening bozo chants something about the US being the best country in the world. We are usually ranked something like 14th-28th on anything related to quality of life. With this new reform we might move out of the league with Cuba regarding health care outcomes. We are currently worst in terms of infant mortality, longevity, and health care costs than any other developed economy. We currently have trouble getting born, and find it much easier, than is the case in other developed countries, to die.
The blessing of The Obama’s presidency is its exposure of liberalism’s agenda in a way that is clear to the densest among us. John McCaiin would have, as the republicans have in the past, merely championed similar legislation slower and less obviously, thus masking the liberal agenda’s creeping upon us – the result would be we would be lulled to ruin without awareness.
The republicans are saying, we need an incremental plan. Well, that is merely a slower train to the same station.
We have got to push for decreases in medicare and medicaid spending – which is rationing and is less health care. If we don’t the country will be bankrupted. That is a tough pill to swallow for the typical spineless politician and an unpleasant reality for the spined – but it is the reality.
the rest of his post was very long but this hits home:
“How many more Republicans, who were flawed in many ways but solidly anti-abortion or solidly against Federal expansionism, would it have taken to stop this? How different would our situation be had there been a literal handful, just five, more Republicans in the House? How well did it work out for you to stay home because retaining control of the House wasn’t as important as your pet peeve or because “they’re all the same”? Was it really better to go back to the many decades of democrat control in Congress than to choke down your pet peeve and work to make sure Republicans where the majority”
80. cedarhill:
The Tea Party should focus on getting 34 states to convene a Constitutional Convention and then make it happen.
Very bad idea. Remember, anything can happen at a Constitutional Convention, not just what we want to happen. The Progressives would just find a way to load the convention and rewrite the whole thing.
Homosexuality, abortion, death panels. The existentailist nihilists are acting out their parts, just as has been scripted. Their stated goal is to reduce the world’s population to under one billion(think “sustainable”). Here’s Spengler’s take on the just passed health care bill(written about 90 years ago);
This decisive turn towards the one remaining kind of life that is, life as
a fact, seen biologically and under causality-relations instead of as Destiny,
is particularly manifest in the ethical passion with which men now turn to
philosophies
of digestion, nutrition and hygiene. Alcohol-questions and
Vegetarianism are treated with religious earnestness such, apparently, being
the gravest problems that the
‘ ‘ men of the NewOrder,” the generations of frogperspective,
are capable of tackling. Religions, as they are when they stand
new-born,on the threshold of the new Culture the Vedic, the Orphic, the
Christianity of Jesus and the Faustian Christianity of the old Germany of
chivalry would have felt it degradation even to glance at questions of this
kind. Nowadays, one uses to them. Buddhism is unthinkable without a
bodily diet to match its spiritual diet, and amongst the Sophists, in the circle
of Antisthenes, in the Stoa and amongst the Sceptics such questions became ever
more and more prominent. Even Aristotle wrote on the alcohol-question, and
a whole series of philosophers took up that of vegetarianism. And the only
difference between Apollinian and Faustian methods here is that the Cynic
theorized about his own digestion while Shaw treats of “everybody’s.” Decline of the West Alfred Knopf 1934 p.360-361
I don’t see why the ram-it-through, health care formula won’t be followed by similar strategies for blanket amnesty, cap and trade, and expansions of the state takeover of cars, banks, student loans, and energy.
I think that must be what was in Pelosi’s mind, as she was carrying around that gigantic civil rights legislation gavel yesterday in DC. (“pelosi’s mind” is a bit of a stretch)
Nancy & Barack in their on again/off again pas de deux, two such individuals conspiring to effect national policy is enough to make a grown man weep.
…or “Them” denying Herlinda Lopez from Fresno her college dreams, who then wrote a letter pleading to Michelle for assistance;
Ah Michelle, lecturing us about “sacrifice”, telling us we’re going to have to do with less so that others can have more, while we pay for her staff of 25 personal assistants and she takes the girls to a play in NYC, the spring break gig to Indonesia & Australia put on hold so her husband can stick his uplifted nose in the air and bloviate about “healthcare” for the thousandth time.
Costly health problems that originate with obesity, smoking, alcoholism, unsafe sex, violence, law-breaking, etc. are really due to lack of scheduled office visits.
I hear the near bankrupt state of CA is considering a new law requiring men to wear condoms in porn films, (can you imagine the bureaucrat at the porn film shoot ensuring compliance ?)
…a creed that assumes those in rehab or on parole or fighting weight-induced diabetes were victims of a system in which those who did not engage in that sort of behavior were culpable in some way and should pony up.
Barack has the meme down pat, and, as you say, will expand it to all areas of human endeavor.
Such mewling & puking lameness puts chains around human excellence.
I think that’s the point, a narcissistic President attempting to bring everyone else down to his own mediocre level.
VDH, you are afraid we have crossed the Rubicon.
I am afraid we have crossed the Styx.
My question is, will you ever vote for a Valley Democrat again?—- Repeatedly in American history a piece of legislation causes the voters to take sides. Reaction to the Jay Treaty saw the creation of the Democratic Party. Reaction to the Kansas-Nebraska Act caused caused the creation of the Republican Party. Yesterday, the “moderate” faction of the Democratic Party was dealt a mortal blow. The GOP held together so even the most liberal Republican is on the same page as the most conservative.
In a few days and a few more manufactured crisis that I am sure won’t go to waste it will all be forgotten.
Have another beer and turn on Reality TV , nothing to see here
Please your dues and move along
It is really really ironic when the politicians You elected)Majority Americans) to change the country now sounds like a bunch of whiners when the people you cheered on to remake the country, actually do what you elected them to do!
Do you really not realize that the 50%+1 formula to pass divisive legislation was used by the GOP majority for the first six years of the Bush II administration? Short term memory loss is rampant among repubs. Bipartisanship fails b/c the repub party is like the Palestinian leadership: they are dominated by idealogues and there is no one with whom Obama can negotiate. The health care bill would have been better as a compromise w/repubs, but no compromise would have attracted a single repub vote. Repubs will vote against ideas they recently supported in order to deny a political victory to Obama. The best thing about Hanson’s commentary is the assumption that a simple “fix” would have provided health insurance to the 30+ million who lack it. Democrats proposed a buy-in for Medicare at age 55 and repubs reacted as if it were a communist invasion from Cuba! What other sort of “fix” does Hanson suggest? He is right about one thing: this bill joins the long line of communist legislation rammed through by Democrats like social security, medicare, the civil rights bills, which have brought this country to its knees.
WOW! Notice all the lefties we’ve not heard from in months piling on today with glee! It’s a wonderful day for THEM! They get their socialism and the rest of us get the bill!
I hope every one of them goes bankrupt under their respective tax burdens. It serves them right for trying to steal $3TRILLION from the rest of us!
Takeover of student loans?! You must be kidding. Or have you been decrying the government guarantee of student loans as government intervention in private markets?
If you have been OK up until now with the government guaranteeing loans so that private lenders need never worry about defaults because they government will pay off the loan for the defaulting student and those lenders can just concentrate on pushing their way forward for a place at the trough with the other pigs, then why are you upset with the government at last ensuring that all of our tax dollars go to a desirable public purpose, the promotion of educational opportunities, rather than a substantial portion thereof go to enrich lenders at the expense of taxpayers? Really, I don’t see any principled basis on which to object to what has just happened and should have happened a very long time ago, that is unless you argue that the government should play no part whatsoever in providing student loans, and certainly not guaranteeing them to benefit of private lenders.
Well. Time to give up my engineering/mathematics/physics career, leave silicon valley (where I can’t really afford to live anyway), and start up as a subsistence farmer and a black market math tutor. With free healthcare, college tuition for my kids, and all sorts of giveaways from the feds.
Dr. Hansen, have you thought about starting up an agricultural advice column for the thousands of us who will soon be packing up our U-Hauls and making the trek to the Midwest, an inverted “Grapes of Wrath” if you will. Or perhaps in my case, the Graphs of Math?
(Ok, I’m joking. But only barely.)
To write that “President Obama has crossed the Rubicon …” is an insult to Julius Caesar. Caesar may have been a dictator, but he did less and harm and more good to Rome than Obama will ever do for America (I write this with only half my tongue in my cheek).
Crossing the Rubicon, indeed!
The Democrats underestimate the American people if they think they can pass this legislation, and then just slow walk us to a socialist, totalitarian bureaucracy. If we’re going to lose the republic we love so much anyhow, who says it needs to be replaced with EUSSR style absolutist statism? There are other alternatives.
Empire anyone?
Well, now I know what it feels like to get boned up the wah-zoo.
Man, it hurts like a you-know-what!
#151 Brian got it exactly correct.
The Reagan Revolution made a deal with the Left…you give the Corporations the tax cuts they want…we will give you the Schools. 20 years later the payoff arrives. The Corporate Fat
Cats have retired to their golf courses..and the children have come off the Liberal educational assembly line. And what does this educational product look like? Lets see no sense of national identity, no sense of American history, a exquisitely
nutured sense of grievance and entitlement..an encyclopedic knowledge of celebrities, media personalities and programmed
sense of moral outrage that can be turned on with the flip of a switch. The Right gots its money..the Left got the Future.
Just had my annual physical. The largest doctor group in my area, just dropped all new Medicare patients due to this debacle. I pray our nation can continue as one nation without massive bloodshed, violent resistance. This would be antithetical to health care.
This article points to the fundamental problem, far larger than the current controversy. A very large segment of society has come to the certainty that our governance no longer has integrity. Citizens are swamped with multiple layers of lies and deceptions, by both parties. No human can comprehend a 2,000 + page law, but its formulation has exposed the lowest of human behavior. Our life sustaining institutions have broken down: Wall Street, the church, the three branches of our federal government, no longer can be trusted. But in a democracy, we brought this on ourselves. Elections have consequences.
It is painful to write these words.
What a rant.
Victor Hanson Davis loves corporate welfare.
Not one mention by him that we have a bloated, unaccountable defense industry that loves that because the private contractors can keep sucking off the government teat and pay his salary.
It’s over. The Demon-Crats won and Republicans, as well as the nation, will pay for it. Despite a majority opposing the HC plan all the pain comes later while (some) benefits start immediately. This will resonate with many who will not be able to see or measure the cost. Once fully implemented those who pay for it will be a fairly small minority while Democrats will have a majority in their pocket who will feel they need protection from Republicans trying to take away their benefits. Although premiums will go up and deficits will be needed to cover much of the cost, the answer from Democrats will be that they warned that a public option was needed and they will get one as insurance companies give up on their ability to stay in business. And of course taxes on the so-called “rich” will simply go up even more than later as they too are demonized as the group trying to deny the masses their just due.
#74 Mia: well said. And none of those things will come of this bill. Nothing, in fact, will come of it other than an expansion of bureaucracies to enforce it until after the next presidential election, when the punitive tax structure will kick in for businesses. So, insomuch as this particular plan was designed to expand healthcare coverage, healthcare expansion is still not the main priority of bill itself. What is? Growing government, and some extremely strange redundancies regarding child health insurance — which is already provided by the government. I can’t count the conversations I’ve had recently with people who simply, reflexively believe low-income people do not receive free healthcare already — and who now will likely insist that said dark age ended circa yesterday.
With America in the beginning of National Socialism where can one run from tyranny? Look what Argentina did with private pensions and look what is proposed for IRAs and the like in America. The collapse of freedom and the confiscation of private property for the “greater good” go hand in hand. It is the 1930s all over again. This time the lights are going out in America.
This will hurt women and children most.
I guess you hit the nail on the head and now the real life losers who think they won something squeal. If there is no money the scheme fail. Arguing with fools is not productive
I bet many of the Nigerian scams appeal top them as well
(“pelosi’s mind” is a bit of a stretch)
I noticed for the first time yesterday that she has quite a pronounced neurotic tic(that little giggle).
PM, I enjoyed your commentary.
Quite frankly, I am deeply saddened by President Obama behavior. Increasingly, at least for me, it feels like tyranny. The legislation that Congress moved on is not health care reform… it’s health insurance smackdown while greatly expanding an intrusive government. You have to have med insurace… if not you get a fine, you may go to jail. If you don’t have money you get subsidized? If you have over 50 employees you get whomped by the government if you don’t provide it for everyone?
I’ve discovered that more legislation and regulation you place between the patient and the doctor leads to waste and abuse. If you paid things directly, you have to choose, you have to think in terms of what really is valuable. If everything is free, you tend to abuse what you did not earn. You use it on any whim, any potential fear, and believe me… that is going to run up costs.
Right now… and I started trying to give the President the benefit… I think the guy is a liar and a political hustler. Say one thing one day to one audience, say another thing the next day to another audience. In the Far East the Chinese are foaming with anger over Obama’s irresponsible fiscal policies, the South Koreans are frustrated over trade agreement blockage, and the Japanese are scrutinizing how Toyota is being treated by a government that owns GM and Chrysler. Israel is sensing it’s alone, Britain has been insulted, the French think he’s a lightweight, the Poles and Czechs feel betrayed after the missile giveaway for nothing. I am sorry… but President Obama brings new meaning to Shiva the Destoyer and Nero the Fiddler.
The rubicon may not be the best analogy.
Maybe a comparison to the Gracci brothers would be more apt.
“The legacy of the Gracchi brothers was one of social upheaval and the eventual disintegration of the Roman political and governing system. Their violent deaths were the first of many more political riots and executions to come over the next 100 years. Traditional powers of the Senate and the people were being torn apart, rebuilt and torn apart again. Ambitious politicians now had many new ways to exploit a system teetering on collapse and powerful men and political parties began to develop in extreme polar opposites. The voice of violence, riots and mob tactics was quickly to become the mainstay throughout the perilous era in Roman history. The Senate even, once steadfast in cooperation against the Tribunes of the Plebes, now even began to splinter off against one another. With the fast rise and fall of the Brothers Gracchi, the stage was set for the rise of Marius, Sulla, Pompey and the eventual last dictator, Gaius Julius Caesar.”
How about the vote(s) the Dems got when they agreed to release some water to grow crops in CA rather than continue to withhold it in order to keep some minnows alive?
The point being: the water *never* should have been withheld in the first place!
That’s along the lines of VDH’s comment that we’ve been bribed with our own borrowed money.
200. Paul of Alexadria. If you believe you can repeal Obamacare in my lifetime it will require a super majority in the Senate, solid control of the House and a President willing to sign such an act. We’re at least four and likely six years from a super majority in the Senate, if ever. It will simply not happen in the lifetime on anyone alive today. The best legal way to preserve the Republic is through a clarifying Constitutional Convention. Only the Left roll out the fear that something might happen and of course it will since there are far more conservatives in the nation than socialists.
For those relying on the Federal Judiciary, you’ll find, at best, one of two provisions may be stricken but you’ll be left with the other 2,000 pages. Let the convention be convened so we at least have the opportunity to be clear if we still want a Republic or not.
I am so sorry Mr. Davis had to suffer the indignity of having to check boxes from his state about his vineyard, which he somehow equates to an effect of Mr. Obama’s Presidency. His suffering is somewhat akin to the man who owned a private plane, yet felt persecuted when the IRS questioned him about failing to report any income in a year. While his rationality may be similarly impaired by a sort of chronic self-sympathy, I am relieved that he at least is free of the murderous urges of other such victims of a relentless state.
Democrats – the party that voted against the “abolition of slavery”, the party that voted to enslave millions to government programs with New Deals and entitlements, has now assembled the complete “government run plantation of enslavement” by rounding off their list of snares with complete control over our health. Those who denounce the evils of the days of slavery, who say they seek life with no master, who say they seek freedom – are no more than ignorant buffoons who simply trade one form of slavery for another by agreeing to the terms of Uncle Sam’s New Plantation. When will you learn that true freedom only comes by taking responsibility for your own existence and stop looking for someone to take care of you? Admittedly there are problems with our system but there are other ways to implement corrections. This is not the way. It stupefies me to watch how modern man constantly turns to failed European, socialistic ideas in an effort to resolve problems. The fact is history shows those ideas don’t work and are not sustainable. Socialism is a poisonous, failed system. It’s acceptance in europe is due only to having been bred for centuries into the realms of “lords and serfdom” that they are used to it and cannot see any other way. So why do so many here in America, blindly ignore the history? It’s because they have never read the history or taken time to understand it. Much the same way the Democrats who voted yes last night never read the bill! Are so many so stupid not to recognize that government simply cannot fix every problem? It in fact has caused many great issues. Here in the United States alone, government is succeeding in bankrupting every social program it has ever enacted, has successfully torpedoed global economies by poisoning housing markets with its abuse of Carter era Community Reinvestment Act and is struggling to keep the US Postal service afloat. It is responsible for the deaths of 1.37 million unborn human babies tragically aborted annually since Roe v Wade. Now we’re expected to hand over the keys to our health-care system. Only blind idiots would feel comfort in putting that much control in the hands of such incompetence. Against this lunacy we will stand.
As Julius Caesar said when he originally marched his army across the Rubicon river to take Rome a generation before the birth of Christ, “the die is cast”.
Or as Obama might say, “The Tax Is Raised”.
Payback will be so, so sweet when we challenge this bill for violating Roe v. Wade. The Supreme Court will be forced to either rule Obamacare unconstitutional, or else overturn Roe v. Wade, thereby triggering laws to outlaw abortion in several states, with more to come. Indeed, there may be as many as 30 states with laws banning all or nearly all abortions still on the books, which will become enforceable once more upon the overturning of Roe v. Wade.
We really shouldn’t be surprised at where Obama is taking us. He spent only 3 years at Harvard law. He spent 20 years at Jeremiah Wright University learning all about Black Liberation Theology, which ios nothing more than a blueprint for socialism. Socialism is a system for taking from those who have and giving it to those who do not have. Obama envisions himself as a combination of Martin Luther King and Moses. Leading his people to the land of milk and honey – massive government handouts.
Whoa, everybody. Take a couple of deep breaths. Calm down. Your hysteria scares me.
Go read President Richard Nixon’s Comprehensive Health Insure Plan submitted to Congress on February 6, 1974. Tell me why it didn’t pass then or in other years to follow.
BTW, did you notice the use of the word ‘comprehensive’ by a Republican President?
In times like these, the stupidity of elected officials, supercedes the stupidity of the American People who elected them!!!
I have nothing to add.
I merely want to stand in this forum and weep.
Quite simply the most disgusting abuse of power I’ve witnessed since the Saturday Night Massacre.
The difference is that the press will not side with the Republicans.
So they will always lose the propaganda war in the end unless the gradual disintengration of the Drive by media is followed by more traditional centrist programs.
The Dems will win the dirty war unless the
Republicans return to their roots.
Let Us NOT Forget!!!!
This would not be happening if the Republican party had not degenerated into a tax and spend business as usual crowd.
AWLinNC
Try to wrap your mind around this. The issue isnt what bit of Social Engineering is best..the issue is Social Engineering itself. Got it?
@200. Paul of Alexadria: – Very bad idea. Remember, anything can happen at a Constitutional Convention…
I really, REALLY wish people would STOP repeating this FUD.
The agenda for an Article V Convention is clearly defined. It comprises the applications already on file in the Congressional Record; any new issues the states submit to the convention for its consideration and any amendment issues submitted by the delegates themselves.
So the “problem” with an Article V Convention is really no different from the problem we already have: electing proper representation.
Meanwhile, here’s the thing: THE CONSTITUTION IS ALREADY BEING EFFECTIVELY RE-WRITTEN AS WE ARGUE THE POINT. It’s being done with zero accountability and zero input from the Several States or the People, themselves. So the notion that we have something to “lose” through an Article V Convention is naive, at best.
An Article V Convention would be to Constitutional abuse what ClimateGate was to AGW: kryptonite. Even without passage of a single resolution, an Article V Convention would raise awareness of federal abuses to levels we haven’t seen since 1861. And while that might sound ominous, it is far more certain to have a positive effect than one more swing of the political pendulum BACK to the demonstrably dysfunctional GOP. THAT cast of clowns is NOT going to change between now and November.
IMHO, we should be exploring all avenues right now. Those should include widespread attention to control of GOP Precinct Committees, direct involvement in Board of Education politics (to restore civics in education, at the very least), ejecting ALL Democrats from Congress, as well as all RINOs, and working toward an American Awakening through an Article V Convention to wrest control of health care (at the very least) back from the federal government.
After reading the replies to this column, it appears the passage of the Health Care Reform Bill has empowered the Lefties because there sure is a lot of “Nah, nah, nah, whose the winner now.”
238 Lincoln
Its 35 years later. Nixon was addressing a USA that no longer exists.. a white middle class America of basically shared values. What the Left and, yes, The Right has done to education, religion, the arts, marriage, sexuality has destroyed all national cohesion…35 years of mass immigration, MultiCulturalism, Feminism, rampant greed, Corporate piracy have had their effects.
I think everyone has learned a lesson from this. I hope the Republican office holders have. I know that freedom isn’t free and we must be ever vigilant to protect it from the progressives.
Dr. Hanson, you hit the right tone in this piece. The clear implication is that it takes courage to live in a free society, courage to live with the consequences of your choices and actions. Unfortunately the politicians of the past 100 years, of both parties, have abrogated this quality of the American people through their nearsighted redistributionist policies. I am afraid that we are now too far down the road to serfdom to turn back. Too many “citizens” want to curl up and suckle at the government redistributionist milk teat. The trouble is that the government will run out of other people’s money to provide the milk.
When that happens, and it will, look out. You think the Civil War was bloody – just wait.
I’ve already seen a number of comparisons of the Democrat take over of our health care to Pickett’s Charge, the high-water mark of the Confederacy. A more accurate comparison, given yesterday’s events would be Napoleon’s victory at Borodino and subsequent occupation of Moscow. The Emperor spent three weeks waiting for the Russians to capitulate. As the days grew colder the Russians stiffened their resistance. With little other choice he left Moscow, dragging his army all the way back to Poland. Only 50,000 of the 600,000 he entered with still remained. Following the same path, this is the future of the Democratic party.
It is the stupidity of the American people – certainly the ones represented here – that is simply beyond comprehension. Let me see if I get this straight: When you or ours get cancer – for absolutely NO fault of your own – you will pay your medical bills and never ever touch any of this communist money. Right? you guys are SO full of it i makes me sick. You are the independent type, the strong silent type, that never needs anything from anybody. BUT if you God forbid you have a retarded child -through NO fault of yours – you are the FIRST in line for a handout. YOU MAKE ME SICK. Now I need to get some of that communist money to make me better. OH – one FACT: we pay more than twice as much as the Greeks and the horrible French and our life expectancy is lower!! Amazing little irritating FACT. Look up fact in the dictionary, you idiots. I wonder how many of you even know what that means! Good luck. Here is the best part: when you get sick Obama care will take care of you.
We can’t wait until November to take action, we need to Stop the Looters now. Join the Producers Strike at http://www.StopTheLooters.com.
It time to put our wealth on strike.
All this talk about the next election and repeal the bill is fine and dandy but what will you do when amnesty is rammed through just in time for all those new democrat voters before the 2010 elections?
Think not? Look at how they got health care done, Chicago runs the country, O isn’t here to govern, he’s here to divide and conquer. Things are much worse than you think….many of us knew that way back.
Enjoy your wonder-filled day
cedarhill @231
… since there are far more conservatives in the nation than socialists
I believe you’re right about the raw numbers, but the only numbers that count are the numbers that show up and participate. That means that in spite of the totals in each group, our being unable to hold onto either the House or the Senate tells you everything you need to know about who would show up and participate in a Constitutional Convention.
have a nice day
It seems clear that this country has become divided between limited-government supporters and nanny-state-government supporters. The divide between these two groups grows every day.
I think the Rubicon analogy is apt. It took about 80 years from the Gracchi to the Rubicon, about the same amount of time between FDR and Obamacare. At this point, there is no going back to a system that was.
The question is this: as there is no way for the two camps to reconcile, there must be either victory or separation. At this point, the forces of statism are winning. Either the forces of liberty concede, battle for victory, or search for a way to separate.
What legal path would exist for the 150 million people in this country to search out a new form of government that supports freedom over statism?
One path would be a constitutional convention, and a secession of those states into a new nation.
Another path would be independent states. States like Alaska or Texas have a tradition of independence, natural resources, and could lead such a movement.
I don’t think this needs to involve violence or animosity. I don’t think the leftist statists would care if such states left the Union. They would be happy to see them go.
Another path would be a mass migration to another region of the planet, purchasing lands in that area, ala the Zionist movement of the 1870s.
Perhaps individuals and organizations could pool their money to purchase an unused tract of land in some underpopulated country in the third-world.
Would a country like Argentina or Angola be willing to sell part of their country to groups that want to found a new nation dedicated to the ideals of liberty and limited self-government?
My gosh, all these terrible things happening to us! Reminds me of Ronald Reagan’s comments about Medicare being the “end of freedom” in America. Yawn.
I guess the GOP needs a good group hug today!
Wow…heavily republican readership here. I lean center-left but respect that we need a fiscal debate on spending, the size of government, etc. The problem with these comments is the lack of cool-headedness, the amount of name-calling and the preference for expressing emotions instead of facts. There are many legitimate, cool-headed criticisms of the legislation, wouldn’t it be more cnstructive to cite these? Look at ex-Raegan advisor Ed Rawlin’s dissenting commentary on CNN.com – perfect example of how powerful a rational, non-eotional piece can be: he swayed me on many points: he is careful to marshall indisputable facts to make his points and wins my repect.
I personally favor helthcare reform not as finished work but a step in the right direction. I think I am in line with much of the readership here when I say that I believe government should be as small as possible (although you can never have government of zero size) and choices should be left to the individual. But what should the government run? Most everyone will agree that the government should run defense. In a developed country, is healthcare also one of those exceptions? Well, take a look at the following comparison of healthcare systems around the world:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8201711.stm
I’m often amazed at how people process these numbers: Americans spend way more than countries with government run systems in terms of actual dollars and percentage of national wealth but get less in terms of lifespan and population coverage. Why does no one care about this? And when I hear “…yeah, but think how much worse it’ll be when the government runs it!..”, I don’t understand why such people ignore two important facts: Firstly, that America is the only developed country with a privately run sysem and simultaneously has the most egregiously wasteful system. Secondly that senior Americans receive god healthcare from…yes, the government.
My tuppence-worth. Again, let me emphasize to folks with a fiscal conservative view that, besides defense and healthcare, I honestly believe government should be kept to the bare minimum.
Thanks if you’ve read this and feel free to email me your comments.
Dear good people,
We are all good people, those who thoughtfully oppose and those who thoughtfully support Obama, access to health care, whatever.
It is the vitriol and lack of willingness to hear and consider others perspectives that concerns me.
I hear the concerns about how we will pay for wider health care. I also hear about the number of bankruptcies due to medical bills, the anguish and lives ruined when cancer visits and decides to stay.
I am struck by the meanness and negativity expressed by Republicans in Congress. The ends do not justify the means and it is sad that civility is deemed unnecessary. We all lose with the polarization that is happening today. What I hear from the Republicans is that nothing, nothing, nothing will bring them to the table despite sincere attempts at engagement by Obama and others. Being the party of no will come back to haunt. I do not see that approach as helping to build America. That approach does not support us as citizens but rather offers an poor role model example similar to athletes behaving badly.
Let us come together.
My thought and my words in media comments spots as well. This is the Rubicon and alea iacta est (the die is cast) toward a more socialistic society. For those who scoff that that could never happen you best keep fighting. Caesar forever changed the Roman constitution partly because when he marched on Rome, much to his surprise, no one stayed to defend the city.
While there are many who see good Caesar’s cause and see him as the paternal and benevolent statesman, it was the ensuing Caesars who used his changes to the Roman Constitution to gut the former Republic.
In 2001 Bill Clinton, popularity 68%, surplus intact, left office due to term limits, and was replaced by Rufus T. Firefly Bush, who lost the popular vote, but had 50 Senators and Regent Dick, with had the tie-breaking vote.
So the GOP used reconcilation to give its base a trillion in tax cuts, totally unpaid-for,
and now comes Victor Davis Hanson, PhD, telling us it’s the Democrats who crossed the Rubicon.
How dare they pass a funded bill adding 32 million to the insured! How dare they use reconciliation for something other than gifte to the rich!
Thanks for the historical perspective, vic.
I read until the 100th post. I don’t believe I have ever read more ignorant exclamations, idiotic statements, complete fabrications, and utter hate as those posted by the socialists on this thread.
The tolerant left, as always shows it’s ugly heart. And it’s a disgusting thing to see(or read).
If any of you socialists think anyone here is buying what you’re selling, you’re just fooling yourselves.
We can see the hate, and it’s eating you like a cancer.
God Save the Republic and Liberty. ( and give our socialist friends the brains they so obviously lack)
@ Lincoln. Richard Nixon may have been a Republican, but he was far from being a conservative. He’d never make it past a caucus or primary today.
Sorry Dr. Hanson-
But as a health insurance agent I love it.
I can now call you up and demand that you buy health insurance or I will sic the IRS on you.
I plan on making 500k next year unless someone kills me.
“Will that be Cash or Credit?”
“Go get your Wallet/Checkbook!”
Dr. Hanson,
I know it would be beneath you. I would understand your saying no. You might even take a huge cut in pay. I’ll assume you could manage. But I have a huge favor to ask.
If men like you don’t consider entering politic, with the broken rudder we have now representing wise thinking and leadership, I am afraid our time draws short.
There are thousands of good “conservative” candidates that are capable. But very few that are willing. You would be near the top of my list if I could pick and choose.
I sincerely hope you would give thought to it. If your geographic so biased and slanted you wouldn’t stand a chance, move to place where there are those who would listen so that we can put you in your rightful place.
The time has come to remove these corrupt CommieLib liars from power “By any means necessary”. They should be physically dragged from office and jailed for willfully violating the Constitution. I call on the U.S. Military to stage a good old-fashioned coup.
Okay, I realize that conservatives are much too civil, but… We should work to take back the House and the Senate. During that time, we should continue to file lawsuits, drag out implementation and thwart the Dems at every turn. In 2012, we vote Obama out and a conservative president in. Then, we introduce a bill that rules this entire healthcare fiasco null and void, using WHATEVER MEANS POSSIBLE, ala the corrupt Dems. We could even use reconciliation for a nice touch.
This bill represents the beginning of the end of our representative democracy. By a significant majority, the American People rejected this monstrosity for many different reasons. Demonstrating their disdain for the very people they theoretically represent, the Democrats in Congress passed this bill. As mentioned, this destroys any pretense of bipartisanship (yes, the much-ballyhooed televised meeting was obviously a complete waste of everyone’s time…there was NEVER any intention of integrating a single Republican idea) and opens the flood-gates for similar shenanigans by both sides.
The President is a joke. His campaign was based on a series of lies. He was and will always be a rigid idealogue with absolutely respect for the 47% of America who did not elect him. He and the congress have no respect for the 55-65% who disagree now.
And so the big question now is how many more rights will be trampled upon before the people have had enough?
@243. Paul ’52: – … the GOP used reconcilation to give its base a trillion in tax cuts, totally unpaid-for.
A. The tax cuts ACHIEVED the goal of reconciliation. That is they resulted in all-time-record-high federal tax revenue and led to consistently shrinking federal deficits from 2004 through 2007 (as well as consistent economic growth). As late as January of 2007, federal spending/revenue trends had government on track for a balanced budget by late 2008. Then the Democrats took control of Congress, at which point the deficit was promptly tripled and unemployment began to rise. Since 2007, the deficit has been exploded BY A FACTOR OF TEN TIMES by Democrats’ handing Taxpayer money to their base like there’s no tomorrow, and unemployment has officially doubled (actually, tripled).
2. The 2003 tax cuts did not directly affect a fundamental necessity of life for every American citizen, as this unconstitutional health care bill does. They did not impose an unconstitutional mandate for every citizen to engage in “approved” commerce or risk being fined, as this bill does.
III. The 2003 tax cuts resulted in a shifting of the income tax burden FURTHER onto the so-called “rich”.
D. This bill is not “funded” in any way shape or form, except through confiscation of wealth from the minority. It is essentially a bill of attainder aimed at individuals and couples whose income rises above an arbitrary level required to appeal to Mob Rule. It will do exactly nothing to bring health care costs under control.
America as a whole is lost. Only part of it can be saved.
Red State America will have to secede.
At least it can count on a sympathetic military not attacking it.
Excellent VDH! There is reason to have much hope. Listen to the address by Rep. Paul Ryan on the House floor. It is readily available on NRO and/or Youtube. That is eloquence. He will be one of the future conservative leaders. After I heard my first Obama speech in 08, I knew he was a fraud. It occurred to me then that he is obviously underestimating the intelligence of his fellow countrymen. Only a stupid man would do that. I still do not think this incorrect. As VDH alludes in the closing of his essay, what goes around, comes around. Buck up! Have faith!
I think I’m going to go full on in support of the Birther movement. If Obama is an illegitimate president, then this whole nightmare goes away.
#240, Obama’s reaching out amounted to saying we won you lost and shut up. The bipartisanship amounted to Republicans being told to vote for what was promulgated from committees closed to them.
THIS MEETING CAN DO NOTHING MORE TO SAVE THE COUNTRY.
BTW, today is the anniversary of the 1765 Stamp Act having been passed.
considertobeconsiderate
Silencing descent is your game now! But when Bush was in office you called it speaking truth to power!
You are the oppressor and we will speak against you! We will fight against you! We will fight against this oppressive government!
We will do everything we can to educate our fellows of the enslavement game you are playing with the lives of our children!
We have learned much from this healthcare debacle… most of all there is no good will on the other side. There is no middle ground.
It is freedom or slavery! There are good people or there are Democrats who want to rule unopposed.
We will not be silent! And we will no longer be polite. Polite is only for when your opponent is not corrupt to the core! Polite is for when you have not yet been slapped in the face by the corruption of the other side!
Democrats must never be allowed near leadership ever again! They want to sell our souls and the souls of our children!
There is no such thing as a moderate. We all must choose good or evil. You choose evil and try to shut up those who love freedom and desire liberty to continue!
Yeah, healthcare passed. thank goodness, now indigent people like me can get healthcare.
Obama is for young people, the old people of Reagan and Herbert Bush are the past.
Obama and people like him are the future of this country, if you don’t like it, move to another country.
Youth rules, old dies. out with the old, in with the new
If Obama has crossed the Rubicon, our Republic is dead. Only the violent and rich will have a say in who will be our tyrant: Julius, Pompey, Crassus, Augustus?
Democrats have succeeded only in transforming their political opponents into sworn enemies. Bridges have been burned.
legalize marijuana, let’s puff a fat one.
Only to an unabashed socialist or neo-Marxist can federal overreach be characterized as “whining and defeatism”. The insanity is wearing dangerously thin on patriotic Americans who still love their country, their constitution, their Republic. Alea jacta est, indeed.
Only to an unabashed socialist or neo-Marxist can our vocal opposition to federal overreach be characterized as “whining and defeatism”. This statist insanity is wearing dangerouly thin on patriotic Americans who still love their Constitutional Republic. Alea jacta est, indeed.
86. Poor Citizen: “so stop your bellyaching and accept the things you can no longer change. Because change is coming.”
Whether wrong or right about this issue, here for all to see is the evil in the progressive movement. We just want to be left alone. They want to force their ambitions and delusions on us and to pay for their fantasy plans by commandeering of privately owned resources.
Maybe we will all just “stop our bellyaching” and maybe we won’t. We’ll see.
Dear
17. Andrew
103. JFW Editor
145. Oscar
Congrats on making yourselves look like complete idiots… maybe you should read what ppl post before responding.
they own it. let them.
it will fail just like we said it would.
“What will they do when they are in the minority…?” What they did the last time they were in the minority: insist on ironclad minority rights and bi-partisanship. Fair play is for them, not for the other guys.
“Do Democrats realize that we really have crossed the Rubicon? In the future when the Republicans gain majorities (and they will), the liberal modus operandi will be the model—bare 51% majorities, reconciliation, the nuclear option, talk of deem and pass, not a single Democrat vote—all ends justifying the means in order to radically restructure vast swaths of American economic and social life. Is someone unhinged at the DNC? They just blew up any shred of bipartisan consensus when their President polls below 50%, the Democratically-controlled Congress below 20%, and health care reform less than 50%. Usually unpopular leaders and their unpopular ideas seek the shelter of minority rights and prerogatives. What will they do when they are in the minority—since they’ve entered the arena, boasted “let the games begin” and shouted “by any means necessary”?”
BAH!! Most if not all of the things you just listed were going on during all of the previous 3 or 4 administrations and for sure during the last Bush administration.
Now remember, things look bad and it looks like you’re not gonna make it, then you gotta get mean. I mean plumb, mad-dog mean. ‘Cause if you lose your head and you give up then you neither live nor win. That’s just the way it is.
Josy Wales
Yesterday, our Republic was lost.
This is really rich… to hear the self-righteous cries of the left calling for an end to the vilification of their hero… demanding decent and considerate debate. What double standard wonders they are… those who ask for decency from one side of their mouth, while hurling all manner of insults and vicious names with the other. If you dare utter disagreement with the left you are a hate-filled, uneducated, bigoted, gun-totting, tea-bagger, insurance company backing, troublesome, back-words, uncaring, fringe element, dirty capitalist, stupid f@*n, racist (so says Van and Rahm). That’s only the short list… The left oozes an extreme hatred of conservatives… especially former President George W Bush, continually vilifying him. I hear no apologies being offered. The aroma of hatred and hypocrisy from the left is overwhelming – and make no mistake… everybody smells it!
ViewFromAcrossTheAtlantic:
The US the $12 trillion in debt, and the UK and Greece are financial basketcases. Where do you think the money pay for universal healthcare is going to come from, and how would make sure that that amount doesn’t wind up suppressing necessary economic growth? Neither the US nor the EU can rely on Chinese and Saudi loans forever…
268.GOY – Bravo! Bravo!!
Hopefully, this was the first and last time Americans elected an unknown entity as President based on nothing more than the color of his skin and his rhetoric in an unsuccsessful attempt to assuage their collective guilt-complex concerning White racism. The sad consequence of this colossal blunder is that (1)Obama will be a one-term President, and (2)the next time a Black runs for President,no matter how capable and well-suited for the position, he/she will most likely be rejected. Sad.
At the risk of overgeneralizing, reading these comments I find that statists who support the healthcare bill are not following the Golden Rule. On top of that, their sheer ignorance of what is in the bill versus the costs and unintended consequences is staggering.
To begin with, all of you healthcare supporters do understand that the majority of benefits do not begin for 4-5 years, correct? That the taxes and fines and increased costs begin immediately? Do you understand that the only way to get a “deficit neutral” or reducing bill was to make us pay up front for 4 years before giving many so-called benefits? That’s like buying a car, paying for it for 4 years before you get to drive it – but it does keep your monthly payment low!
Now, let’s think about the concept of “insurance” and the regulations now to be imposed. To begin with, insurance is based upon evaluating risk and assigning costs. Most insurance collects less fees than it eventually pays out – you don’t pay anything near the cost of a month of eventual hospitalization over a 10-year period of subscription, nor do you pay in an amount to allow a death benefit of say $500k. Insurance companies can do this – pay you more than they collect from you – because they are pooling risk and setting prices based upon those risks. In part it is a Ponzi scheme, but it is also an investment plan, where they invest money and include returns on that money in the pool for payouts. Requiring them to cover pre-existing conditions will mean that people will only subscribe when they need it (paying a smaller fine to the IRS the rest of the time). There is no pooled risk – the risk is there 100% of the time, like offering life insurance after someone dies.
Insurance companies now also offer a wide variety of plans. Unfortunately, one of the undeniable consequences of government control of insurance is that some unelected bureaucrats will set what a “minimum acceptable health insurance program” MUST include. This happened in Massachusett(e)s, it has happened everywhere the government has been involved in healthcare. That means that the 20-yo male cannot simply buy a cheap policy that doesn’t cover OB-GYN, aromatherapy, abortion, acupuncture, chiropractic, vision and dental. The insurance companies will be forced to only offer plans that meet gov standards, meaning the cost goes up to the individual. My health plan allows me to modify the amount I pay when I walk into the facility and adjusts my monthly rates in accordance to that co-pay, but the gov will decide I should pay $10, not $100, for my visits (even though I visit 1 time a year or less). That means my rates every month go up.
If you think this is a great win for insurance companies, think again. They know, starting today, they have a limited lifespan, and will strive to make as much money as possible until they are legisalted out of business. Without the ability to calculate and pool risk, and with the requirement that they accept everyone at no higher pay, they will be in the position of servicing more people for more treatments who have higher risk. As insurance companies raise rates (because the gov limits their ability to tailor plans and assess risk) the call for a gov plan – even an expansion of Medicare – will increase. Once a gov plan is pushed through to “compete” then private insurance is dead. Gov entities do not have to worry about profits (see Fannie & Freddy, USPS, etc.). They can tell providers what they will pay with no debate. They can artificially offer lower prices because taxpayers (aka “Obama’s stash”) make up the difference. If a gov plan costs $300 a month and an insurance co has to charge $600 to stay alive, sooner or later the insurance company will quit the business.
People who look to other countries to marvel at how much they spend of their GDP on healthcare always ignore the fact that none of these countries a) protect themselves against aggression in Pax Americana, and thus spend little on military, and b) they do not facilitate or pay for medical advances. They simply leech off of the US and the few capitalist countries who have private industry working towards new products. A drug company may need to develop 100 drugs to find one that is safe and beneficial; it takes an average of $1 billion to bring a new drug to market. Yet fools seem to think that the price of the drug should be based upon the cost of making it (what generic makers have to spend) without considering the cost of developing it, testing it, getting it passed through the gov hoops. Think of it this way – you spend years writing the Great American Novel, and someone copies it and sells it as their own. They say, “You’ve lost nothing – you can also sell it for the same price based upon the cost of printing.” Is that fair? All you lost was a few years of your life. The only thing that spurs people to create new drugs or medical devices or hospital beds or whatever is the idea that it will not only help others but the inventor will gain a benefit. You don’t spend $1 billion if you think you will have to recoup that at $ .018 per pill (what I saw generic aspirin selling for at Costco today).
The notion that thousands die because they cannot afford treatment is based upon a false statistic. The simple truth is that by law an emergency room cannot turn away a patient. If you’ve noticed, every sob-story the Dems have put out there involved people who could have gotten care – or who HAD gotten care – but either chose not to enroll or take advantage of what they had available. Or they died while under treatment. The fact that they did not have insurance did not factor into their care.
The fact is, pretty much everyone would support a bill that did what the Dems have claimed their bill does – increases care while reducing the deficit and reducing costs. But saying that will happen while presenting a bill that ON ITS FACE fails to provide these things is disingenuous. First, it won’t cover everyone. Second, the only way it is “deficit neutral” is by having us pay for 10 years while getting services for 5-6 years. It also depends on reductions in pay for doctors which everyone knows will never be passed. It also depends upon claims, fed to the CBO, that certain actions will result in specific savings (the CBO MUST accept the claims presented to it to base their analysis on) when these claims are simply unrealistic and unbelievable.
Think of it this way. What the CBO works with are the parameters fed to it. Suppose I said I wanted an analysis of what I would make in 2020. I told the analyst that I would make 10% more each year, that my expenses would go down 15% every year, and that the dollar would remain stable. The prediction would be very rosy, but it would be totally dependent upon the factors I fed in. Odds are that I WON’T make 10% more each year, and expenses WILL NOT go down 15% each year, and the dollar WON’T be stable. So any analysis I get will be totally wrong. But it would look great!
Even with all the chicanery, they still had to add the government takeover of student loans (to a healthcare package?!?) and proposed savings (i.e., fees to students) to cover more shortfall.
If you support the bill and believe it is a reasonable endeavor, are you willing to pay for 4 years without benefits, then get 5-6 years of benefits, then stop getting those benefits for another 4 years in 2020 (so we can balance this thing out again)? I didn’t think so. But you accept the idea that it will reduce the deficit based upon that model. Is that wise?
If a friend comes to you and asks your advice on an investment he is contemplating into something you know will cost him his investment (say, badmitten birdies for Inuits), are you being hateful when you say it is not a good idea? Are you racist if you say there is no market for badmitten among Inuits? Are you a greedy capitalistic tool if you suggest he might look elsewhere to solve his investment needs? Just because the majority of Americans reject the claims and plan of the Dems does not mean they are uncaring or don’t want to see something effective done with healthcare. But when you do something that historically has never worked you invite criticism and folks saying, “Whoa! What the heck are you doing?”
Statists use false dichotomies to demonize the majority of Americans who oppose this bill. It is not a choice of the status quo or this bill, as VDH points out. Being against a bad bill that will have bad consequences does not mean you don’t care about people, just as preventing a shaman from covering a friend with leeches does not mean you are unfeeling towards your friend’s health.
Do we really need such a massive bill to extend coverage to 30 million people (which the bill does not even accomplish)? Wouldn’t it be cheaper to offer tax credits or vouchers (for the large percentage who do not pay taxes) so people could participate in existing plans? Open up competition across state lines? Limit tort actions to reduce defensive medicine?
Here’s a question I don’t know the answer to – where does the money go that the IRS will collect from people who do not buy an approved insurance plan? Does it go to the gummint to spend as it will? Wouldn’t this encourage the gummint to set this fine lower than the cost of insurance to maximize tax revenue? Remember, people cannot be turned away or charged more for pre-existing conditions. So the smart person pays the fine and gets insurance when they get sick or in an accident (let’s make it easy and allow them to sign up for “insurance” in the ER).
I pay many thousands of dollars a year in car insurance. I’d gladly pay a few thousand (any amount up to what I am paying will save me money) if I can get “insurance” after I have the accident. That would mean the insurance companies would ONLY get clients who have expensive claims, who would then quit once their claim is paid. That’s the system we’ve set up for health insurance. Pay a small fine that doesn’t profit the insurance company, get health insurance when you are sick, and drop it once you are well. That will guarantee insurance companies will shut down, leaving the field open for the gummint to step in a fill the need.
The insurance carriers are dead. Long live the public option!
Wow, what a bunch of drama queens. Calm down, the US has survived much, much worse.
Even if, as some claim, this monstrous bill can be “rolled back”, the damage has been done. The Almighty State has demonstrated that:
IT CAN INVENT “INHERENT RIGHTS” FOR FAVORED GROUPS,
IT CAN DEMAND THAT OTHER GROUPS PROVIDE PRODUCTS OR SERVICES TO ENSURE THOSE “RIGHTS”,
AND
IT CAN UNILATERALLY DETERMINE THE PRICE PAID FOR THE GOODS/SERVICES IT DEMANDS FROM THOSE PROVIDERS.
Isn’t that … slavery?
The men we elected to represent us, who swore to “preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution” have just –willingly, knowingly, after MONTHS of planning and discussion– subverted and contravened it instead.
And now comes our Brave New World.
What a dark view. Let me shine some light of hope into it.
“Our guardian class has become the new French aristocracy at Versailles.”
Yesterday this aristocracy said, “Let them eat cake.” We the People know how to respond.
“George Soros is not really a money speculator that ruins banks, but a transferer of capital to progressive causes.”
Banks that take positions opening themselves up to attack by financial predators like Soros are better off dead. The business of banks should be cowardice; they should behave like wildebeests, huddled tightly in their vast herds eschewing all risk. The ones who get too adventurous or call too much attention to themselves should become a leopard’s lunch. Put differently, a bank should never lend money to someone who needs it.
“Obama wants a state-run America, somewhere to the left of France or Denmark, a United States unexceptional and merely one of many nations at the UN.”
Many Americans wanted the same thing, believing it to be the remedy to President Bush’s bellicose, democracy promoting, heartless, capitalistic, materialistic, free spending, “unpaid for”, “tax cuts for the rich” America. Now that they’ve got, they don’t want it anymore. But elections have consequences, even the ones that haven’t happened yet.
“Do Democrats realize that we really have crossed the Rubicon?”
Yes, but they like their chances. After all, they’ve been violating our principles and playing at power is all politics since the Wilson administration. Republicans, on the other hand, haven’t as yet had the stones to play this game for keeps. Maybe they don’t know how, as Rep. Gingrich demonstrated in his standoff against Pres. Clinton over spending. Or maybe they don’t fully understand how dearly each of their losses harms the country. If the republicans did, they’d match the Democrats stroke for underhanded stroke, assuming that they care more about their country than their own parochial perquisites, and that’s a mighty big assumption.
Ask Sen. Nelson about angry mobs;
I hear he and his dinner party
were booed out of a local restaurant.
A Motion to Adjourn is always in order;
Once out from under the watchful Baselisk
Stare of Pelosi, the CongressCritters
are free to discuss their future options
as public servants…or private citizens,
as the mood of the electorate dictates. :)
Since lil’Barry likes history so much one can only hope he remembers what happened to Julius Caesar. I doubt he will, and I’m reasonably sure none of his supporters has the least idea of what I’m talking about. After all the creative writing they’ve done to history they wouldn’t know the truth if it stood up, danced naked on the table with a rose between it’s teeth, set itself on fire and put the fire out with jello.
We are led by the ignorant, herded by the moronic, advised by the degenerate and betrayed by the idiotic. We have allowed this to happen by laziness, and inattentiveness. The teenagers are in charge of the bus, God help us all.
#199 Bill please take another hit for me will ya? Your nice utopia does not exist anywhere or we would be clamoring to be there kind of like others are still clamoring to be here. Right Bill? Which European country in your so called enlightened world is not about to go broke now, become Muslim in 10-20 years or isn’t being run by a dictatorial thug-o-cracy? Which of these so called enlightened nations would exist if not for us? Maybe you’re talking about Red China or Russia? Those are great examples there huh? Maybe you mean South America, lots of great intellect pouring out of those studies in the mass oppression of humanity.
Canada? It doesn’t exist without the USA sitting on its border.
Are talking about Israel with their G-D, guns and capitalist expansion? Maybe some day Israel will get there but not quite yet (they started out as socialists you know and it didn’t work very well). How about the cradle of all that is (according to the commander in chief) and ever has been; the Arab Middle East? Is it Japan, Indonesia, Singapore, Korea, Taiwan, Vietnam or Mexico?
I know you’re from the future and you’re just reciting what your learned from your revisionist history, history books. You can’t fool me.
Please inform us all of the location of this great enlightened nation and we will pack up the Statue of Liberty and send it to the greatest and most enlightened nation on Earth.
The counter revolution, if there is ever going to actually be one, needs an axiom to destroy the prevailing tribal nonsense.
Here is a suggestion: “One skin, one driver.”
That justifies neither ‘my skin uber alles’(crime), nor ‘most skins uber alles’(statism.)
It is an axiom that illustrates the alternatives for what they are; variants of slavery. Let the left turn themselves inside out trying to justify slavery, even for their latest really, really good cause.
Find a moral dilemma that isn’t addressed adequately by ‘one skin, one driver.’
Or, try to find one that justifies violating it.
Like, ‘suppose there was a button that would either save the life of your child, or the life of every other child in the world, what button would you press, you MUST press one?’
My answer is “The button that saves the life of my child, and your lesson is, don’t keep trying to build that world based on MUST.”
Who are the sick mofo’s that need to build ‘one button worlds’ to justify their real world slavery? Those are the sick mofo’s who should feel guilty. Not me, for pressing that button in that gedanken world of theirs. I’d sleep like a baby.
Find me a real dilemma not addressed by ‘One skin, one driver.’
For example: the tribe just went a long way in making voluntary charity less likely, by mandating coercion.
There is a very predictable human reaction to attempted coercion, and it starts with ‘F— you,’ so get ready for the reaction.
MEDICARE savings: inept government health care meddling so inefficient that doing less of it is scored as a savings, and this is the argument swallowed by much of the tribe to do more government meddling. The ‘savings’ consists of (trying) to force doctors to arbitrarily accept 40% less reimbursement for the same services. Why not 80%? Why stop at 40%, when pulling numbers out of our butt?
Something that an American Congress has basically never found the will to do. Shame, I guess. Former Soviet Union? Not a problem. Pol Pot? In a heartbeat. Chavez? Sure thing, sleep like a baby. Castro? Every day of the week. Just, until this last straw, not here, not this nation.
That is, up until ‘crossing the Rubicon’, not in this nation.
Time to wake up yet?
254. rashputin. Then it’s time for one to join SEIU and start figuring out how much one can extract from the government. The Article Five route is the only effective route. Face life. Nothing will happen regarding repeal during Obama’s Presidency. Nothing will be done regarding repeal as long as the Democrats retain 41 Senators. All those 150+ agencies will not be stricken by the Supreme Court. There will be some juggling but does anyone really believe the GOP will actually repeal anything? To borrow a phrase from the West – they’re all hat and no cow.
The American people are flibertigibets. From Republican control of the House, Senate and Presidency, they have gone to Democrat control of the same. Now they are swinging back. They are giving democracy as bad a name as did the Athenians, twenty-five hundred years ago.
the Rubicon or the Gracchi brothers?
Either way, I worry.
history has already demonstrated that it is impossible for government to keep these socialist promises of welfare of every kind as a “right” for all the citizens.
what’s tragic about the passage of this bill it that it is unsustainable over the long term, meaning that a reduction in its scope and largesse will absolutely be required in the not too distant future, leaving many truly needy people to suffer the consequences.
i’m a swing voter who lives in nancy pelosi’s district, and i voted for her in 2006 and 2008 when she was a voice in the wilderness decrying bush’s fiscal irresponsibility and war profiteering.
i intend to vote against her in 2010 now that she is in power and like sausage churning out public policy which does not allow her to even pretend momentarily that she has the national interest in mind.
Libs are Commies said:
“The time has come to remove these corrupt CommieLib liars from power “By any means necessary”. They should be physically dragged from office and jailed for willfully violating the Constitution. I call on the U.S. Military to stage a good old-fashioned coup.”
Another right-wing extremist who claims to support the constitution and then advocates a MILITARY COUP. Does that make sense to anyone? Anything wrong with trying to change the government non-violently by constitutional means? The extreme Right in this country is losing its mind.
To blotto: Well, including those 30 million will likely happen with a zero overall cost increase. I’m personally not happy that the public option was dropped — that very likely would have been the biggest mitigating factor in cost control in the long run. But as far as other benefits go, some rather nice, smart apolitical reports and comparisons are here.
Some things I like are:
1) Setting up a standardized reporting and administrative system for financial transactions. This might seem minor, but this can be easily leveraged into probing and uncovering all the financial trickery going on now. This *could* be used to figure out where exactly is all the money going (hospital systems go way too far out of their way now to protect that sort of info.)
2) Preexisting condition? No worry.
3) Infant mortality rates — hopefully, with greater access to health care for pregnant and nursing mothers, we can pull ahead of Cuba at least.
Is health care a right or privilage? Is it a guarentee. Is it mandated or even mentioned in our “Bill Of Rights”? Will it pass Constitutional muster? If indeed this historic legislation was all about health care reform why all the extra pork in the bill? Washington beaurcrats must think we the people are nothing more than a bunch of idiots and do not know any better.
I am 70 years old, on Medicare for the last five years. Medicare denies payments all the time and they are the government. Soon the rest of America will enjoy the same privileges. While Medicare denies some payments, they also unquestioningly and recklessly pay for unnecessary testing and very expensive outpatient testing. There is no rhyme or reason for what they do. I guess they have a rule book to follow; no brains to go with it.
I remember when my father was on Medicare and attempted to report fraudulent billing on one of his hospital stays. They did nothing and showed no interest in doing anything about it after repeated telephone calls to a faceless bureaucrat who was probably thinking about the weekend.
This is all hopeless unless we go back to personal responsibility. Is it too late for Americas?
Please do not call such attention to Obama’s policies. It is very important that the correct sort of well meaning people set up a dominant state – Which can them be coopted by a Strong Leader (not Obama – not by a long shot…) who will rally the people to fight (insert foreign threat here) which will require a united effort of all of society. Triumph of the Will – with american flags. [sure, it will be bad – but the collateral damage will also include gangs being declared domestic branches of foreign terrorist organizations – and those dedicated gang-members detained will….disappear.)
Onward! Thank you Obama…..
“Bush forced an unwanted war into Americans’ throats.
Obama has forced health care amendment into the GOP’s throat.”
First, the war was supported by a majority at the time.
Your allies in the media like you managed to erode that with 24/7/365 screaming and a complete failure to report successes — moral, tactical, and strategic.
Second, the war didn’t dump a two-thousand page rule book onto every American, confiscate their earnings, and mandate how they spend their own money. Oh, and carve out exemptions for the *ssholes who wrote the law in the first place.
FABULOUS idea posted by “Mark L” over at AOS:
“Attach a one-line rider to every piece of legislation next year that states that the bill is hereby repealed in its entirety. Force the Democrats to vote on that rider. Every Time. Then hold a press conference to announce that yet again the Democrats have blocked the will of the American people by upholding this corrupt piece of legislation, despite being given one more opportunity to fix the mess they created.
Let normal business continue, but keep introducing the rider. Thus, every week they will be given an opportunity to “right the wrong” they inflicted. The issue would not go away. Every week the Democrats would get a fresh chance to anger the American people.
How long do you think it would take — especially if Democrats’ poll numbers keep dropping — before they would repeal the damn bill (and override a Presidential veto) just to stop the political bleeding?
I’d say it would be gone by August 2011.”
I wish everybody else was dead…
The absolute ignorance on display by most of the leftists who have come out of the woodwork today to comment is astounding. Never before in congressional history has legislation so government-altering been passed with no votes from the opposition. In fact the only bipartisanship on yesterday’s vote WAS the No vote, which says quite a lot when you think of it. The arrogance and tyranny of the majority on display this past year culminating in the vote yesterday is transformative all right. It means the decorum that was part of Congress is over, and lIke VDH says, when the tide turns and the Dems are in the minority, you can be sure that 51 votes are all it will take to reverse this socialistic, communistic and anti-American legislation. And, by the way, we won’t have to wait for Obama to be out of office either. Congress controls the purse strings, and I would hope that if Congress is controlled by the Republicans that they force his hand by refusing to pass budgets, thereby stopping government until he agrees to other measures to undo what needs to be undone. It means war, but it wasn’t started by the Republicans, but I’m hoping they use every means at their disposal to squash this mess when they get control, which they will.
However, the health care debacle will probably be a moot subject very shortly because, simply put, this country is broke people. The world knows this, which is why our currency is so suspect, and our AAA rating is about to be downgraded, maybe substantially, a truly remarkable, pathetic condition.
I and many, many conservatives have railed against profligate government spending and especially our cumulative debt for decades. The ’94 Republican Congress was the only responsible congress we’ve had, and gave us the only balanced budgets we’ve had in forty years (and Clinton takes credit–and I don’t care if he does), and I lament that Republicans later dropped the ball to some extent, but 9/11 really did alter our focus unfortunately in this respect. Pres. Bush tried to work with Democrats on too many issues, and they took advantage of his willingness to do so, for which I fault him for believing they could be trusted to reciprocate. He had a lot on his plate, kept us safe during a pretty scary number of years when no one would have expected to have lived through 8 years of no further domestic terrorist attacks. Recall that a Mr. Kahn from Pakistan had disbursed plans for nuclear bombs to many terrorist nations at about this same time, so please don’t ignore the seriousness of the situation facing a new president in 2001; he can absolutely be forgiven for focusing on this major area first and foremost. Only because of our success at stopping terrorists then can we now enjoy the freedom to discuss things like health care now.
Except that the economy and our fiscal condition trump it all, which makes the wasted effort the past year forcing Democrat health care down our throats, and trillions more in deficit spending on top of that, has put us in a dangerous position which is going to make the likes of Pelosi, Reid, et al. look like they were kids playing in sand while a tsunami was already on its way here. I do not look forward to the chaos the next few years folks.
“Do Democrats realize that we really have crossed the Rubicon? In the future when the Republicans gain majorities (and they will), the liberal modus operandi will be the model”
No they won’t. Conservatives don’t have an active philosophy, purely a defensive one. Until they gain a philosophy with an end goal, something to aim and push for then the ratchet effect will contine.
Given that the closet marxists who control the left have as their eventual end game a totalitarian state all western countries will continue to be pushed slowly in that big state direction while conservatives act solely as a slowing mechanism.
Conservatives have to turn into something else first and then push back – hard.
Remember, Obama is a deracinated individual. He has no roots. He is a man from an Asian-Pacific background bred to no admiration for the ancient constitutional history which, until now, has reached across the Atlantic to bind America and Britain.
The president actually feels that the US Constitution, which grew out of Magna Carta and the 1689 Bill of Rights, is ‘inadequate.’
Indeed, Obama has stated that, because the US Constitution guarantees only ‘negative rights’ — that is, establishes what the US Government may not do to individuals or to the sovereign states — instead of giving people guarantees of food, shelter education and health care and the rest, it is ‘inadequate.’
That is one reason he has worked so hard to get the health care legislation through Congress. It is undoubtedly unconstitutional. Already, the attorneys-general of Florida and South Carolina are poised to challenge its constitutionality in court. At least another dozen state attorneys-general may join in the suit.
Obama has made it clear he despises both the US Constitution and the British tradition from which it springs.
His decision to send his Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, to Argentina to give support to President Kirchner is part of this anti-British attitude. Mrs Clinton has supported President Kirchner’s demands that the fate of the Falklands be decided by the United Nations decolonisation committee.
It is all part of the same Obama world-view. This interference in South American affairs is not part of the old yankee — yanqui — imperialism. The important thing to note is that the Obama administration is not stepping in to decide the fate of the Falklands itself.
No, it wants to turn the dispute over to a Third World-dominated instrument of international governance, the UN.
One might imagine that Obama is willing to back Argentina over the Falklands because he thinks America has something to gain from it. That is not the reason. There is no profit for the US in cultivating the Latino presidents, and there is no particular policy to do so.
Rather, US support for Kirchner’s demand that the Falklands question be turned over to the UN is just another opportunity for Obama to strengthen the ideological world system which he hopes will one day overwhelm the old Anglo-Saxon Common Law America.
His vision is for the US to abandon its Constitution and its laws, which are tied to Britain, the country for which he has shown such disdain.
I read that the father of Sweden’s socialized medicine program advised his children while laying on his death bed, to make sure they “Get private health insurance”! If true, what an epitaph!!
As for me, watching the aftermath yesterday it seemed like the Soviet Congress congratulating itself for adopting the policies of TD Lysenko, and ending hunger within the next five years
The poor have been uplifted, the forgotten remembered, the sick cared for and the rich and powerful reminded that in most humane cultures the village is more important than the single greedy man.
While it drives most posters here wild, this is the first step towards the establishment of a truly humane and caring culture. As Nancy Pelosi said, we can now dream of a day when our children can be artists and singers and sculptors, free of the need to produce business or science or engineering just for their daily bread.
Our children’s children will dance and rejoice in a hundred years for the triumph of yesterday and our first real step towards a humane society.
You may destroy it with your crazed hatred and talks of guns and revolution but truth will win out and all nature will bless our beloved Barack.
It’s the very end of the day…Monday Day 1 of the rest of the life of the USA. I started off exhausted and down.
But after reading one article after another, I’ve seen there’s still life on the side of freedom, independence, apple pies, and old glory. There’s still a sense of humor out there.
Some people have been energized and that’s given me stregnth.
VDH reflected my initial hell-in-a-handbag assessment. I think when the dust settles we may yet see hope for a turn around. Something. Somewere. Someone can take this as an opportunity.
All may not be lost.
cedarhill (303)
Then it’s time for one to join SEIU and start figuring out how much one can extract from the government.
Not at all, not nearly. It’s time to work to get people involved, get them in the habit of staying involved, and only when there are sufficient numbers to take control of Congress will it be time to start figuring out whether to have a Constitutional Convention. That was what I thought you were saying was the only cure, but it’s no cure unless the conservative troops are habituated to long marches rather than the occasional sprint or while they’re quicker to turn on one another than on democrats.
Regards
This is the time to fight. I know fighting is very unpleasant, but you will hate the alternative a whole lot worse.
@308. BC: – … including those 30 million will likely happen with a zero overall cost increase.
As usual, you are completely full of crap. Funding comprehensive health care insurance for an additional 30 MILLION people will involve enormous additional cost. You can rob Peter (e.g., Medicare) to pay Paul (the 30M), but Peter will then be left holding the bag to foot the additional – increased – cost. The increased cost will also be born by taxpayers earning over 200k / 250k, which makes this a bill of attainder aimed at a minority of citizens whose income happens to be above the arbitrary level necessary to satisfy Mob Rule.
Increased cost will also come in the form that bitchy Law of Unintended Consequences. By turning 30 MILLION people loose with a NO-LIMIT HEALTH CARE CREDIT CARD (aka “insurance card”), we guarantee an increase in all of the ills already caused by comprehensive insurance. Among these are health care over-consumption, which will now be pursued by 30 MILLION people who weren’t over-consuming before, and defensive medicine, which will be practiced on 30 MILLION new health care consumers as they flood the health care market.
Meanwhile, what we have done here is to inject 30 MILLION new consumers into the health care market – artificially – in exactly the same way we injected them into the housing market with Taxpayer-backed, “affordable mortgages”. Look for the same outcome, especially if the government moves to apply unconstitutional price controls (similar to keeping the prime interest rate artificially low). Health care costs – which are ALREADY increasing at rates multiple that of inflation – will increase beyond the insurance companies’ ability to compensate and even the government’s unrestrained power to tax incomes won’t be sufficient to cover it. When that bubble pops, hospitals unable to adjust to rapid price decreases will fail, doctors will abandon practices, medical technology companies will go under and medical schools will switch to liberal arts. Overnight, health care will become all but unattainable except for the very wealthy.
- I’m personally not happy that the public option was dropped — that very likely would have been the biggest mitigating factor in cost control in the long run.
Fantasy. The insolvent and soon-to-be-bankrupt Medicare system has already demonstrated how completely full of crap you are on this point.
- … this can be easily leveraged into probing and uncovering all the financial trickery going on now.
Right. Because no individual or company has ever figured out how to keep two sets of books. Again, you’re full of crap here.
- Preexisting condition? No worry.
You’re full of crap. Access to the “high risk pool” for pre-existing conditions is limited and the pool is underfunded. It will cover few people, and will run out of money in 2011 or 2012. Only those who have been uninsured for more than six months will qualify for the high risk pool. Only 0.7% of those without insurance now will get coverage, and the CMS report estimates it will run out of funding by 2011 or 2012.
- …with greater access to health care for pregnant and nursing mothers, we can pull ahead of Cuba at least.
Again, you’re full of crap. Infant mortality is driven primarily by premature births. Political correctness laws prevent us from analyzing this statistic very thoroughly, but let’s just say the major contributors to premature birth are maternal obesity, smoking, generally poor diet, rapid-fire births, maternal drug use, maternal alcoholism, STDs and a host of other wonderful ills that seem to coagulate around certain demographics.
Apropos of insurance, premie births are also strongly correlated statistically with induced labor / C-sections before the 37th week (both on the rise as of last year) and fertility treatments. The former is a facet of defensive medicine that is pursued partly due to the “insurance will cover it” mindset and partly due to lack of adequate tort reform, which is not addressed in this bill AT ALL. The latter is a facet of “insurance will cover it” mentality. My State, for instance, mandates fertility treatment coverage, which means I have to pay extra on my insurance plan to finance treatments for others even though (a) the expense for such treatments is entirely elective, and not incurred due to some unavoidable risk factor (like having a car accident), and (b) I will never use it.
Greying Wanderer is spot on for his point. Right now we really have 1 party… the socialist party.
Its merely branches into 2 forms the socialism NOW party aka democrat party and the GOP who motto is “Socialism for your grand kids not for you.”
Until “conservatives” aka centrists decide to become right wing we will truly only have 1 party. I find ppl whining about some like glen beck creating a third party… how about someone create a second party first before worrying about how a 3rd party is going to turn out.
317 – Pragmatist: “His vision is for the US to abandon its Constitution and its laws, which are tied to Britain, the country for which he has shown such disdain.”
Yes, but it goes beyond that. As others have noted he will eventually start reducing military spending to pay for his entitlements, alter electoral demographics through immigraiton policies, push education (indoctrination) further to the left, keep polarizing the culture etc. Healthcare is only the first of many steps in a well prepared plan. There will be mock outreaches to conservatives (to weaken our resolve and /or make us look ever more the ‘bad guys’), bones tossed to the electorate – perhaps even an egineered economic recovery to bolster their odds come November. (This is a deep game played by powerful economic interests, and they’ve been preparing for decades)…
On the other hand, though a significant step forward for the progressives, healthcare has been a costly battle for them too, and will become more so in the months ahead. It has exposed a lot of weaknesses and vulnerabilities (this should have been easy for them, they rule Congress and Obama had a huge mandate going in – or so it seemed). Instead they just managed to squeak it through. Fight them tooth and nail at every step until November. There is more coming, and we will likely take more hits. But keep reminding Americans that the Dems’ leftist agenda means far more to them than bipartisanship, free markets and exceptionalism: It’s all about permanently entrenching an autocratic elite astride a statist- welfare economy. Make sure they wear that albatross until November.
Meanwhile its time for another million man march on DC!
with the actions of the dems over the last year they have enabled the avg american to place certain truths to them and their party.
1) All dems lie. It is what they do, it is all they can do. If a dem is speaking he/she is lying. Period end of story.
2) All dems think they know better then everyone else. they style themselves the new overlords. the new Kings/Queens of the world.
3) Every bill that has been debated and/or voted on has included get out of jail free cards for those imposing the rules/regulation the rest of us must live under
4)the dem party has morphed into the National Socialist Democratic party over the last year and they are trying to remake the USA into the USSA. All those that desire freedom, liberty are opposed to them.
5) McCarthy was right. Our schools, hollywood, media colleges have been taken over by the socialists.
6) the GOP are idiots that couldn’t fight its way out of a wet paperbag.
7) We did not “win” the cold war. It still rages but now it is being fought on our shores.
If you all remember nothing else remember rule #1 All dems lie all the time.
Post 75-Soar Winner.
I have a brother that has schizophrenia and that is exactly how he writes. Making no sense at all.
Beauty is, it’s going to be challeneged on numerous fronts.
First off, the government has no authority to FORCE someone into “commerce” via their authority to REGULATE under the commerce law. That’s going to fall. (Individual Mandate) That is unheard of power being bootstrapped to a government authority.
Never in our history has the Federal government attempted that kind of power grab.
The government cannot “tax” as a penalty – as this bill does. That has repeatedly been deemed to be unconstitutional. Just because they “call” it a tax does not hide the fact it is a “penalty.”
On point black letter law from a 1922 Supreme Court case makes that clear.
The government doesn’t have the authority to interfer in the States’ rights to govern or “police” commerce within a states’ borders. The government cannot decide that there is an “irregularity” and try to “equalize” something between states via the commerce clause. 10th Amendment is firm on this point.
This bill attempts to “lower” reimbursement rates for those states who have Tort Reform. Not to mention, dictating what “policy” has to offered to whom, etc.
1918 Supreme Court decision reinforces that position.
There are several points on which this bill will be challeneged.
There are numerous things wrong with this bill.
38 states are formulating legislation against this law. 2 states are prepared to sue right now, with 8 states joining them.
The federal government will have to defend against 8 state lawsuits, and then, the federal government will have to go after 38 states to have their individual laws declared “subordinate.”
The long ugly fight has just begun.
The nation is going to be treated to watching the federal government “go after” 38 states, which will prove to the nation exactly how ugly the democrat/liberals are and what they stand for.
Welcome to the ugly new reality of the Federal Government and what it means under the liberals/democrats.
The nation will finally see, in all it’s cold ugly reality, exactly what these people stand for.
And “it ain’t gonna be pretty.” It will be laid bare for everyone to see.
We’ll actually see what a dreadful a “vision” they have for this nation.
Even democrats in State houses are supporting the challenge to this federal grab.
And heads up – the public option is in that Recon bill. . .Yep. The public option that everyone hated is back in that bill. Everyone is going to find out all the ugly things in that Recon bill also.
Guess what – they also put a “Economic Substance Doctrine” in it also.
You’re gonna love this one. . . .
Unless there is an “economic” reason for a transaction other than a tax benefit, you won’t receive a “tax benefit.” I.e., if you buy something as a write off, unless there was some other “profit” reason they deem appropriate for that transaction, you won’t get the write off.
Doncha love the dishonesty of the democrats?
And they’re doing that in a Recon bill that has nothing to do with health care.
“320. CelebrateFreedom:”
It’s just not gonna work out the way that you and Nancy Pelosi fantasize.
Not even if every single one of us (the 55% or more of the country who oppose this) lay down right now and cooperated quietly.
***
Also, jail time for not spending your own money as the government deems correct … this is not freedom.
This is evil.
Page 764 of the health care bill reads:
Doctors are to ask patients which party they belong to. All Republicans will have to start ANY procedure with a colonoscopy. Democrats get a free massage.
GM is the logical first boycott target.
Those who are saying that crossing the Rubicon is the wrong comparison especially gloating MOONBATS . Well here’s a question for you left wing moonbats WHO said Obambi was CAESAR . He and the DEMS are the Government INCUMBENTS and thus the Roman SENATE and it is YOU who is about to get your comeuppance from the rising CONSERVATIVE Caesar who will sweep away the CORRUPT LIARS in power.
I am tired of the view that somehow the Democrats will “suffer” from this. They might lose their majority for a few election cycles, but the purpose of this bill was not healthcare reform, but rather a broader strategy to gain and consolidate power. Sinister, yet brilliant! And, they have two advantages: an almost totally compliant media (example, do you think Bush could have gotten away with Predator assasinations on the scale of Obama?)and a forgetful public. I hope everyone will like living in a virtual one party system. I am in the process of exploring other options. My wife didn’t like Costa Rica so my next country to examine is Belize. I have two businesses to sell and then it’s goodbye Obamanation!
Soon the time will come for brave men and women to stand up against the oncoming tyranny and defend themselves and the Constitution by visiting violence on those who opress us…….I will be armed and ready to fight, will you?
320. CelebrateFreedom:
Readers, take note of this comment–it typifies the witless and mindless ideological fantasy-spinning that elected Obama in the first place. No more need of “business” or “science” or “engineering”: instead everyone will be “singers” and “sculptors” in this new human society.
This is a throw-back to the vacant-eyed primitivists and cultists of the 19th-century, where total ignorance of self and subject matter became for the chosen cultists the sine-qua-non of a return to Edenic innocence.
This would read as a piece of satiric parody of the whole Obama phenomenon were it not apparent that this commentator actually means it. It demonstrates once again that the left is not communist so much as hallucinatory. That’s right: the patients have taken over the asylum.
And yeah, #75 sounds either like the writer is loony or doing a magnificent job at pretending to be.
@Voltiman 337
I read Celebrate Freedom and I have to believe – I must believe – that it is satire.
No rational person can truly hold those opinions.
Come on, Celebrate – allay our deep concerns.
To Lily #4…
Don’t dismiss your thoughts too soon. I can see this precipitating a Divorce between the Northeast/Upper Midwest, Far Left Coast, and the rest of the country (Red States). The big cities and states dominated by them seem to fall to the Statists, with the exception of Texas, and the rest of the states (i.e. the ones that believe in personal liberties, 2nd and 10th amendments, and can grow their own food) are fed up with the Feds telling us what our rights are, as opposed the view of the Founding Fathers who said we tell the Feds what our rights are.
I can envision a day when the Republic of America (i.e. red states) finally decide we have had enough and walk away from the rest. And I can see it starting in Texas, which was a republic of its own at one time.
“Republics decline into democracies and democracies degenerate into despotisms.”– Aristotle
@337. Voltimand: – This is a throw-back to the vacant-eyed primitivists and cultists of the 19th-century,…
Heh. I was expecting the “Slavery is Freedom!” line at any moment. I still think it was parody – “beloved” was beyond shark-jumping. ;-)
- … the left is not communist so much as hallucinatory.
If the two are mutually exclusive, this is the first I’ve heard.
To goy: Your points, as usual, are about as sharp as new Playdo. My links, like this for instance, always kick your dopey, unresearched links’ — as well as your even dopier rants — butts.
As I’ve been pointing out over and over again to you slack-jaws — Obama is merely trying to fix a problem that has been growing relentlessly for far too long, and the Republicans have had many, many opportunities to do something, or at least be helpful, but have only managed to scratch their butts or throw rocks. Absolutely useless numbnuts, the lot of them — just as much as the hyperventilating yahoos on right wing websites moronically and bizarrely trying to make Obama’s compromised health care plan into some sort of blow to the American way. In contrast, reelecting Bush did *real* damage to this country, and if you were one of the people who took part in that, you have absolutely no business whining or complaining about any of this stuff — clearly you have no clue whatsoever about right and wrong, fact and fiction.
Obama got health-care done, and no one else has been able to do that, it is a huge victory for him and the country. the republicans have turned off the public with their lack of ideas, just trying to stop progress is not an idea or a good governing option,it is basically quitting and not serving the people. the left hated Reagan and the right hate Obama, but they are two of our great presidents who have/will shape the country in positive ways for years to come.
yall on the internet sure is crazy!
The bottom line is not how you “feel” about Obamacare. Hate it or love it, we can’t afford it. The US government is close to losing its’ AAA bond rating. It’s safer to loan money to Warren Buffet than it is to Obama.
America is hopping on the cradle-to-grave entitlement bandwagon just as the wagon is about to head off the cliff. The libs favorite game of robbing Peter to pay Paul ends when Peter no longer has anything to take.
Fazer needs some rest and sleep from all the celebrating statists are doing. Win a payoff battle and they think they have won the war. November ’10 will show the results of an awakened voting American citizenry. Bribes, lies, titles and promises have always been very seductive to the cupidity of the weak minded. Most, if not all, of the one eyed jacks will end up in the trash can of history with all the other cheats of history. It is time for the citizens who love their country and don’t drop for a cheap handout to step up and step on all the Democrat “rats” and force RINO overreachers to retire.
I was already forced to pay for healthcare before this bill ever appeared. If I had had a choice, I would have kept the money (some $3500 a year) and used it as I saw fit. If I became ill or injured I would rely on my savings to pay, and then my family and friends. I do not see the government as a deep-pocketed helper in waiting as so many seem too. I do see a pilferer of paychecks that takes from me without my permission weekly, from funds that I have earned and deserve.
The society we inherited was founded by resilient agrarians, like VDH, that took pride in self reliance and resilience. That mentality is lost on our inner city dwellers and poor, who always seem to blame other for their own personal flaws and failures.
I truly enjoy and agree with VDH’s interpretation and application of the fallacy of “service” through government employment. If you get a paycheck, you are at work…not “serving”. This misnomer might drive me bonkers. The “servants” and advocates of further government employment fail to see that they are takers, and that the true servants are helping neighbors and their fellow man on a local level and a daily basis. It is an inherent flaw in the left-wing mind that the federal government can provide better localized aid application that those present in the time of need.
Need evidence? Just look at a comparison between hurricanes Katrina and Rita, and the resilience of Texans vs. the lack there of in New Orleans.
What do you think will happen once this bill is fully enacted? I can see the government telling you what you can eat and not eat, regulating the food industry even more to the point of it being a realistic Demolition Man theme city. But wait, there is more. Rationing of healthcare will occur, since the producers of this country are slowly being overtaken by the moochers (meaning they do not pay taxes or suck off the government teet more than they contribute). you will be TOLD when you can get your prescriptions, medical appts, surgeries, etc…
Think that is crazy… feel free to move to Cuba, Venezuela or China….
don’t forget that once the government has your life in control, and you want to vote them out, good luck.
You want to stand up for the Constitution? Then go get the illegal alien’s birth certificate and other records out of the dark, buried vaults sealed by his order where we the people cannot see them, and into the clear light of day, to establish his identity and citizenship, and to see whether they indicate, without a doubt, that he is eligible, or not, to hold the office of the President of the United States.
But no, that would be unhinged, ignorant, and infantile. Sez who? Sez David Horowitz, and Charles Krauthammer, and Victor Davis Hanson, among other, otherwise intelligent pundits, who, so afraid to find out for sure, would let the country go to ruin instead.
As Napoleon famously said to Talleyrand,”you democrats are merde in a silk stocking”. Mr. Hanson you are the greatest.
10 Most Influential Persons in World History
1. Obama
2. Muhammad
3. Isaac Newton
4. Jesus Christ
5. Buddha
6. Confucius
7. Johann Gutenberg
8. Christopher Columbus
9. Albert Einstein
10. Galileo Galilei
If socialized medicine can on the one hand be seen as using the resources of the state to show our caring for others, it can just as easily been seen as license not to care about others, because the state will do it for us.
320: “Celebrate Freedom” My, how Orwellian. You are a sniveling worm who yearns to lick your master’s boots, and you call it freedom. What you celebrate is slavery.
“Our children’s children will dance and rejoice in a hundred years for the triumph of yesterday and our first real step towards a humane society.”
No, chump , if Teh One gets his way, the more likely scenario is that your children will be living in 2 rooms in a massive government housing project and telling their children about a time in America when even ordinary people owned homes and cars and ate hot meals in restaurants. And your descendants will curse Obama and the generation that ruined America. They’ll do it quietly, in case the secret police are listening in.
As for you, I only wish I could be there to see you “dance” when you’re sitting for 20 hours in an ER waiting room (that happens now in Canada) only to be told you can’t have the expensive operation that will keep you alive. Since you’re obviously wasting good oxygen now, it won’t be much of a loss to the planet, but unfortunately other people -good people – will also suffer from this idiotic bill if it isn’t repealed.
Of course, I’m banking on the idea that it won’t go into effect – because we can’t afford it. The days of the social welfare state are numbered, no matter how many libs sing “Kumbaya” and “Imagine.”
Most liberals have not seen and handled a dead fetus resulting from an abortion. And most conservatives have not turned away an illegal alien from an emergency room to die on the street.
I would much rather die by accident than by government’s design. That is what I fear the most – yelling for help and officials saying they are not allowed to do. I do not wish to be aborted by edict no matter how young I am or how old I get.
Although it will prolong the inevitable, I believe we should resist until the end. We are fighting a losing battle. The writing is on the wall and the reality is, eventually those of us who believe in the principles for which this country was founded will be outnumbered by those that have no undestanding of the U. S. Constitution or the meaning of the words liberty and freedom. I fear the only solution is the course of action our founding fathers took during the time period of 1775-1783. If you think about it that’s really not an option either. We’re doomed. Now if you will excuse me I must find out what happened on the last episode of LOST, who was voted off Dancing with the Stars and who is the favorite to win American Idol.
I liked the article and expected a more harsh disapproval of Obama and the liberal elitists in DC whom have no idea of the struggles of real Americans. Their ideals are worthy, their implementation NOT. I expect that the US Supreme Court will knock down a lot of the new Health Care “Reform Act” because of its unconstitutionality of the whole damned bill. Obama, who would not even let the public see his birth certificate, is the plant the Middle East has spoken of for years in the context that we will be taken over from within. Trying to placate an illegal minority at the expense of a disillusioned majority to pander for votes is wrong. Overriding states’ rights while expanding federal government and its intrusion on our personal liberties not only bypasses our rights guaranteed under the US Constitution and Bil of Rights, but it smacks of Soviet-style socialism and communism. Those at the top got much better treatment than the masses, just like what’s happening to America right now. Unless people wake up, one day an officer of the law will stop you and ask: :”Your papers, please.”
Obama doesn’t want a homogenous America, he wants us all to pay for the mistakes of 200-year dead Americans. He wants to ensalve the middle class and destroy it byburdemning them especially to pay for what others call entitlements, few whom really earned or deserved it.
Since Obama likes to refer to the rhetoric of the Kennedy years, then perhaps the finality of JFK’s years in office could perhaps foretell what will happen when he really pisses some Americans off. I think he is a community organier that treats the whole country like a ward in Chicago, a city that has never (NOT!) seen political corruption for greed, and thus, is way in over his head. All politicians lie — it’s part of their craft, but when Obama lies, it is so obvious because you can actually see his lips moving. He has three years left before we vote the bastard out of office. Pelosi’s time is a coming. If Americans would only get angry enough to register and vote these punks out of office for good, then perhaps America can get back on the right track again.
You want to stand up for the Constitution? Then go get what’s-his-name’s birth
certificate and other records out of the dark vaults sealed by his order, buried
where we the people cannot see them, and into the clear light of day, to establish
his identity and citizenship, and to see whether they indicate, without a doubt,
that he is eligible, or is not, to be the President of the United States.
But no, that would be unhinged, ignorant, and infantile. Sez who? Sez David
Horowitz, and Charles Krauthammer, and Victor Davis Hanson, among other,
otherwise intelligent pundits, who, afraid to find out for sure, would let the
country go to ruin instead.
THe false prophet has been unmasked. Thank you VDH for warning us what was there long before hand.
Look forward to the Phantom of the Obama’s wrath at people who are repulsed by what we see.
Can you say, “Atlas Shrugged”? Ayn Rand was clarvoyant. Depressing.
320: Celebrate Freedom -
When the village starts controlling every part of your life it’s not called freedom.
There are millions of children who would have loved to dance on this planet and never got the chance because men like your “beloved” chose to vote “no” against legislation (or abstained) to stop abortion… even gruesome, partial-birth abortions. Babies who somehow survived the gruesome procedure were thrown in hospital trash cans and left there to die… and your beloved did nothing to save them. That is not humane.
As far as your village goes, we’ll see how you like it when they come to take, what they didn’t help make, your loaf of bread you worked so hard to bake. Read the “Little Red Hen”. PS – If you don’t like it here, there is a little village in Venezuela you can move to…
Want to stand up for the Constitution? Then get Barack Hussein Obama aka Barry Soetoro’s birth certificate and other records out of the dark vaults sealed by his order, buried where we the people cannot see them, and into the clear light of day, to establish his identity and citizenship, and to see whether they indicate, without a doubt, that he is eligible, or not, to hold the office of the President of the United States.
But no, that would be unhinged, ignorant, and infantile. Says who? David Horowitz, and Charles Krauthammer, and Victor Davis Hanson, among other respectable, intelligent pundits, that’s who. They smear you and your legitimate concerns with insulting charges like the ones above. Well I, for one, freely admit to them. Unremitting lies and corruption do unhinge me, I am as ignorant as they are about what Obama’s got locked up, and I guess infantile because I can’t just bite my lips and let a proven liar and con man act with impunity, as they, in their vaunted sanity, wisdom, and maturity, are able to do.
What are we upset at? It needs to be clear. If it is the unconsitutionality of the bill and the voting etc, then we need to fight in the courts. If we are upset because the majority elected politicians who voted for this garbage, then we have ourselves to blame. If we are truly still a right leaning country, then we need to get these people out of office in November and create right leaning legislation that maintains our way of life. If we are no longer such a country, then we need to decide if we want to stay here as a minoirity and live like a bunch of socialists.
Whether we like it or not,over the past 100 years in our desire not to be viewed as racist etc, we have allowed too many social programs to stay in place that give people who contribute nothing to society way too much. The entrepeneurial and hard working class are replaced by leeches and affirmative action babies. These idiots grow up and get to vote after they become clear failures. Those like Obama from the same background are smart enough to let the system work for them and they become President. Do you think he gets into Harvard if he does not check that box in his application he is black? Insane that is allowed in a country like ours.
Get used to it. Most countries end up socialist in some form because those who create the wealth are looked at with envy by who those who cannot and we continue to try and placate them so they will stay poor in silence, as they should. The well to do but not rich are eliminated and we end up with a super rich liberal majority and a populous living on equal terms made up of the low class non working people and the hard workers who are angry because the harder they work or the more they create, they end up barely better then the lazy class they work to support.
The USA is only 200 or so years old. Its not a surprise it will die a slow death starting with this legislation. It will be interesting to see what kind of war we have to fix it or to realize the dream is over. You can bet it will be a race war where the whites will try to kill every black and hispanic they can find because too many of us do not want to move to Australia or New Zealand.
Its our own fault for allowing this to happen rather then stand up to the race baiting self entitled folks who have slowly increased their voting population while reducing their overall productivity. Even a great country like ours cannot survive such an onslaught.
I for one would not object so much if Obamacare was truly a zero sum movement of wealth from rich Peter to poor Paul which probably would be a benefit for both. But no. Theft and charity, taz and spend are not zero sum actions. Rather, by encouraging people to use assets they have no duty to replace or work even to finance, then ultimately the assets being used up are not replaced. As one example, doctors are chased out business, hospitals are underpaid, go broke and shutter their doors, and by the simple act of increasing consumption above production we wake up a generation later and everyone is poorer — we’ve retreated to fuedalism, and millions must be rationed and die since fuedalism cannot support the millions that capitalism can. Socialism under Stalin, Castro, the African dictators, Mao, Kim Jung Il and every other statist worked out precisely as the theory says, so this is not a pipe dream. It is real. Socialism is a negative sum game while capitalism, by encouraging profit — or production above consumption (which congealed in exchange becomes and adds new money value to the economy that never existed before) is the only positive sum game in town. Over the generations capitalism makes everyone richer and expands the population. Socialism makes everyone poorer and contracts the population. What idiot would prefer the latter to the former? I don’t get the stupidity behind Obamacare but for those at the top it is not stupidity. It is pure evil. Killing millions so they can be Dukes and Earls once again — how evil is that? But ever was it thus and ever will it be. So our only choice is to fight the Bastards forever until they are stripped of everything they tried to steal from the producers. Freedom forever!
Remember, remember the 2nd of November,
Democrat teason and plot….
I just don’t understand these right wingers.
On the one hand they moan about big government – about how shocking it is that the president would want Americans to have decent healthcare like elsewhere in the civilised world. Yes – let them die I say.
And on the other hand they support spending trillions of dollars to march into a country most Americans couldn’t find on a map looking for weapons that did exist, killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people and later staying to eliminate terrorists who weren’t there before we invaded.
Its the biggest of big government – trillions of dollars stolen from your grandchildren to make those in the arms and oil industries rich whilst the economy collapses.
Where were all these people moaning about big government as these trillions were being stolen from your grandchildrens future pay packets to finance this search for something that didn’t exist?
Nope – none of this flack is about a dislike of big government. If it had been they’d have been jumping up and down about the Iraq war or Bush’s banking bailouts. Nope – its a dislike of Obama government. They support spending money to kill people looking for weapons that don’t exist, but are horrified at the concept of spending money to improve the health care of the nation.
Is this what its really come to?
@341. BC: – My links, like this for instance, always kick your dopey, unresearched links’
LOL!! You don’t even know what’s contained in the links you copy and paste from the idiots who send you your talking points. And you’ve never bothered to read anything else. The seven-year-old, outdated propaganda you just linked to is a perfect example.
The “non-partisan” Kaiser Commission never even bothered to mention that the cost of health care itself has seen decades of hyperinflation – cost increases at rates multiple that of the consumer price index, caused by government meddling in health care which has completely corrupted the free market. That hyperinflation is the only significant factor in the “cost of uncompensated care”. Without it, the “cost of uncompensated care” would be negligible.
Meanwhile, you obviously didn’t bother to read this garbage you linked to, or you would have known that the entire thing is based on estimates generated by computer models – not surveys or actual numbers reported by hospitals, etc. Yeah, like the computer model estimates used to lie about civilian casualties in Iraq and the effect of carbon dioxide on climate. Like those quasi-scientific efforts, it identifies a goal – justifying the extension of Medicare to the general population – and cooks numbers to support it. The notion of working to reduce the actual cost of health care itself is never even considered.
Nice try. Big fail.
- …have only managed to scratch their butts or throw rocks.
You get paid to write these lies, don’t you. No sane person would stoop to making themselves look as stupid as you do if you weren’t being paid for it. The ONLY plan proposed so far that has been scored favorably by the CBO is Paul Ryan’s, to wit [my emph.]:
“Using CBO’s “textbook growth” model, it is not possible to simulate the effects of the alternative fiscal scenario after 2058 because deficits become so large and unsustainable that the model cannot calculate their effects. The Roadmap would put the federal budget on a sustainable path, generating an annual budget surplus of about 5 percent of GDP by 2080. According to CBO’s textbook growth model, which incorporates the assumption that economic output is determined by the number of hours of labor that workers supply, the size and composition of the capital stock, and the state of technological expertise, real potential gross national product per person would continue to grow over the entire 75-year period (see Figure 4). The economy would be considerably stronger under the proposal (as analyzed by CBO) than it would be under the alternative fiscal scenario. Real gross national product per person would be about 70 percent higher in 2058 under the proposal than under the alternative fiscal scenario.“
The “alternative fiscal scenario” is, of course, the Democrats’ current fiscal policy.
Really. You should give up. You suck at this.
Charity is a religious practice used to buy the hearts of the receiver and to nourish the heart of the giver. It is better to give than to receive. Dependency and the unhealthy attitudes that accompany it are the just reward for this generation’s turning away from Nature’s God. The First Amendment’s prohibition against religious establishment should preclude Federal acts of charity. Or is religion only for the foolish who live in the past? How do we fund all of the socialist entitlements?
Social Security hit the tipping point fully six years before projections.
Does judgment come from evolution too?
“They didn’t like FDR at the time”?
Is that why they elected him to the White House four times?
Any people who do not like the administration, can move to another country. As for me, I’m gonna smoke while I wish for open mindedness as found in Europe.
Legalize recreational marijuana.
364. Tonky:
“I just don’t understand these right wingers.
. . .
Is this what its really come to?”
You said it well. Their brain was created with a faulty circuit. It’s just like gays: it’s not their fault, they are born this way. They are wired to create and destroy. They call themselves Christians, but they behave more like the Taliban. Very sore losers. But there is hope, they are a micro-minority among the billions of Earth citizens. Just a little too loud.
369:vivo
“Their brain was created with a faulty circuit. It’s just like gays…
Vivo, I’m glad to hear one of you finally say what the rest of us have known…
First off –
Not leaving my country like some overpaid, over indulged, caste loving hollywood liberal crybaby.
And –
The comments here tell me one thing – VDH isn’t just bringing in the choir. Seems like his writing has brought in all the sheep this time. Welcome sheeple. This is where the healthy sheep are fed.
Over the years, my husband simply plays games. At all times he performs poker with pals every Friday night time to seek advice from and impact me. I spend time together with her husband on Friday and this can be a superb factor to complain each time, so he must simply get at the side of his pals as soon as he complains. I’ve created in our hearts this night a long poem and I can have intercourse, I need to be faithful to the request of the house first, I attempted a number of issues, so he has no number of their poker pals to make me doubt the method he had taken. So take a couple of events, but he took what I own. However, transportation, car and other problems with that sort, he would perhaps want to move to motion pictures in addition to a couple of cases I attempt to open to all different attempts that have failed to do so, and on the time he was once unkind.
I can’t see the healthcare vote approach being used again, but regardless of how the bill looks it was progress on many levels. Have you been to the ER lately? It is overrun with American citizens having to decide whether or not to see a doctor over costs. On the other hand, we have illegal immigrants that take advantage of our health care without a care in the world. Something has to change with that mess and I welcome anything aside from the status quo.
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