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	<title>Comments on: War?—What War?</title>
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		<title>By: Jack Marcotte</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/victordavishanson/war%e2%80%94what-war/#comment-1140</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack Marcotte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jan 2007 04:23:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&quot;Reality&quot; is now a game of who can get there with the most written, stated or commonly promoted and proselytized ideas or arm chair theory presented through the MSM and magic wand like the most inane theories and comments become the most believed &quot;facts&quot;.

And I thought we had culturally gone beyond the &quot;witch doctor&quot; phase.

Our politically correct and &quot;prestigious&quot; institutions, academic and political,  are now being run by those most in need of a productive life lived in the real world of informed experience. Their collective comments on any subject however seem to be just a cacophony of PC Utopian noise.

For the antidote to our current problems with a resurgent and deadly Islamism we will need to be taken off our highest level perch--and we will be. The PC Utopians will of necessity again become the trivia they are.

Hard times will demand informed experience and objective gut wrenching actions that will determine if America as conceived will survive. Trivial PC people will not do that.

Those that can will start the climb all over again and eventually the Utopians can live again in their trivia and thrive. It is human to do so and PC Utopian thinking is a disease of the human mind that has been divorced from reality for to long and has a &quot;witch doctor&quot; mentality on how humans think and act.

Listening to or reading comments from VDH gives hope that all have not lost their basic common sense-- put there by informed experience.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Reality&#8221; is now a game of who can get there with the most written, stated or commonly promoted and proselytized ideas or arm chair theory presented through the MSM and magic wand like the most inane theories and comments become the most believed &#8220;facts&#8221;.</p>
<p>And I thought we had culturally gone beyond the &#8220;witch doctor&#8221; phase.</p>
<p>Our politically correct and &#8220;prestigious&#8221; institutions, academic and political,  are now being run by those most in need of a productive life lived in the real world of informed experience. Their collective comments on any subject however seem to be just a cacophony of PC Utopian noise.</p>
<p>For the antidote to our current problems with a resurgent and deadly Islamism we will need to be taken off our highest level perch&#8211;and we will be. The PC Utopians will of necessity again become the trivia they are.</p>
<p>Hard times will demand informed experience and objective gut wrenching actions that will determine if America as conceived will survive. Trivial PC people will not do that.</p>
<p>Those that can will start the climb all over again and eventually the Utopians can live again in their trivia and thrive. It is human to do so and PC Utopian thinking is a disease of the human mind that has been divorced from reality for to long and has a &#8220;witch doctor&#8221; mentality on how humans think and act.</p>
<p>Listening to or reading comments from VDH gives hope that all have not lost their basic common sense&#8211; put there by informed experience.</p>
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		<title>By: gs</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/victordavishanson/war%e2%80%94what-war/#comment-1139</link>
		<dc:creator>gs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jan 2007 16:57:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/victordavishanson/2007/01/12/war%e2%80%94what-war/#comment-1139</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;So What Do We Do?&lt;/strong&gt;

This enemy cannot be categorized in the same way as previous enemies.  We should be acting against the Islamist command and logistics structures; enemy mosques, mullahs and moneymen should not remain off limits.

Repugnant though the prospect is, we should begin thinking about the unthinkable, i.e. the use of WMD including against populations.  Heaven forbid that this struggle reaches a stage at which either Western or Islamic civilization will be destroyed--the administration&#039;s lapses have brought us closer to that still-distant point--, but if things come to that pass, I want the West--the USA in particular--to be the survivor.

On the other hand, I gather that much of counterinsurgency is counterintuitive.  We should examine how to exploit the weaknesses of the enemy&#039;s cultures through the ruthless use of soft power.  This is the part of the struggle which we are not even trying to contest.  Even worse, our efforts may be giving the impression of weakness.

&lt;strong&gt;Our Current Approach&lt;/strong&gt;

My lack of confidence in the commander-in-chief&#039;s leadership does not give me a license to subvert his efforts.

When they first assumed command, Grant and Sherman were not the Grant and Sherman whom history remembers.  They were dubious second- or third-tier choices who were put in command only because the &quot;best&quot; generals had failed.  General Petraeus should be given a chance.

I don&#039;t want another national disgrace like abandoning the South Vietnamese.  The material consequences this time would be much worse.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>So What Do We Do?</strong></p>
<p>This enemy cannot be categorized in the same way as previous enemies.  We should be acting against the Islamist command and logistics structures; enemy mosques, mullahs and moneymen should not remain off limits.</p>
<p>Repugnant though the prospect is, we should begin thinking about the unthinkable, i.e. the use of WMD including against populations.  Heaven forbid that this struggle reaches a stage at which either Western or Islamic civilization will be destroyed&#8211;the administration&#8217;s lapses have brought us closer to that still-distant point&#8211;, but if things come to that pass, I want the West&#8211;the USA in particular&#8211;to be the survivor.</p>
<p>On the other hand, I gather that much of counterinsurgency is counterintuitive.  We should examine how to exploit the weaknesses of the enemy&#8217;s cultures through the ruthless use of soft power.  This is the part of the struggle which we are not even trying to contest.  Even worse, our efforts may be giving the impression of weakness.</p>
<p><strong>Our Current Approach</strong></p>
<p>My lack of confidence in the commander-in-chief&#8217;s leadership does not give me a license to subvert his efforts.</p>
<p>When they first assumed command, Grant and Sherman were not the Grant and Sherman whom history remembers.  They were dubious second- or third-tier choices who were put in command only because the &#8220;best&#8221; generals had failed.  General Petraeus should be given a chance.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t want another national disgrace like abandoning the South Vietnamese.  The material consequences this time would be much worse.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeffrey Neher</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/victordavishanson/war%e2%80%94what-war/#comment-1138</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey Neher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jan 2007 23:10:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/victordavishanson/2007/01/12/war%e2%80%94what-war/#comment-1138</guid>
		<description>
Brian J. your post would merit comment but for the lack of having or making a point.  Nice to see you put your politics above your nation.  Sadly that is in keeping with the new democrat tradition(ask Lieberman and Miller).  Lost two wars?  You almost post this gleefully......
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian J. your post would merit comment but for the lack of having or making a point.  Nice to see you put your politics above your nation.  Sadly that is in keeping with the new democrat tradition(ask Lieberman and Miller).  Lost two wars?  You almost post this gleefully&#8230;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: MarkP</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/victordavishanson/war%e2%80%94what-war/#comment-1137</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jan 2007 12:57:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/victordavishanson/2007/01/12/war%e2%80%94what-war/#comment-1137</guid>
		<description>I read this morning at NRO that Bill Buckley has thrown in the towel on the war.  He answers my earlier question about whether or not the Iraqi people can create a civil society.  Buckley says &#039;no&#039; and sees a partition as inevitable.  Time will tell.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read this morning at NRO that Bill Buckley has thrown in the towel on the war.  He answers my earlier question about whether or not the Iraqi people can create a civil society.  Buckley says &#8216;no&#8217; and sees a partition as inevitable.  Time will tell.</p>
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		<title>By: mrsizer</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/victordavishanson/war%e2%80%94what-war/#comment-1136</link>
		<dc:creator>mrsizer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jan 2007 15:36:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/victordavishanson/2007/01/12/war%e2%80%94what-war/#comment-1136</guid>
		<description>Mr. Nicholas, I think you may misunderstand the difference between our and their definition of &quot;winning&quot;.

America will Islamified when Hell freezes over. They don&#039;t want - although they may dream - to conquer us. They just want to destroy us. That&#039;s &quot;winning&quot;, even if it destroys them, too.

Our globalized economy is robust, but far from indestrucible. A global banking meltdown that destroys all the &quot;paper&quot; wealth floating around - trillions upon trillions of dollars   - and nations defaulting on their debt and $200/barrel oil (the retalitory strike on Iran scattering fallout across the Iraqi oil-fields doesn&#039;t seem too farfetched, although I don&#039;t know weather patterns in the ME) will stop global trade.

Dr. Hanson sounds like he&#039;ll be OK: He has a tractor. Anyone else here know how to farm? We won&#039;t be &quot;destroyed&quot; but I much prefer the 21st century to the 18th.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Nicholas, I think you may misunderstand the difference between our and their definition of &#8220;winning&#8221;.</p>
<p>America will Islamified when Hell freezes over. They don&#8217;t want &#8211; although they may dream &#8211; to conquer us. They just want to destroy us. That&#8217;s &#8220;winning&#8221;, even if it destroys them, too.</p>
<p>Our globalized economy is robust, but far from indestrucible. A global banking meltdown that destroys all the &#8220;paper&#8221; wealth floating around &#8211; trillions upon trillions of dollars   &#8211; and nations defaulting on their debt and $200/barrel oil (the retalitory strike on Iran scattering fallout across the Iraqi oil-fields doesn&#8217;t seem too farfetched, although I don&#8217;t know weather patterns in the ME) will stop global trade.</p>
<p>Dr. Hanson sounds like he&#8217;ll be OK: He has a tractor. Anyone else here know how to farm? We won&#8217;t be &#8220;destroyed&#8221; but I much prefer the 21st century to the 18th.</p>
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		<title>By: JimM</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/victordavishanson/war%e2%80%94what-war/#comment-1135</link>
		<dc:creator>JimM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jan 2007 05:33:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/victordavishanson/2007/01/12/war%e2%80%94what-war/#comment-1135</guid>
		<description>David Nicholas said:
&quot;However, I remain convinced that were al Qaeda to find themselves in possession of a suitcase nuclear device (a worst case scenario for us: missiles would be much better, because they&#039;re harder to hide) and managed to detonate it in an American city, does anyone imagine that this would be the end of life as we know it?&quot;

It would certainly cause widespread panic in all major cities as the populace wonders if bombs are also in their&#039;s waiting to be detonated. Can you imagine a Katrina-style panic evacuation the next day all across America, and where would they go?

It doesn&#039;t have to be a city that is bombed to bring America to its knees, ever hear of an EMP bomb? It&#039;s a nuke detonated at high altitude which releases a huge electromagnetic shock wave knocking out everything electrical for hundereds of miles in all directions: power stations, automobiles, aircraft, etc. Melting millions of miles of powerlines would certainly change our lives for years -- until they could be rebuilt.

Iran was reported last year to be testing long-range, high-altitude missles from ships detonating them over the Caspian Sea.

The real problem in the USA is that many people do not believe any of this could happen, they do not believe the enemy can defeat us. Until they do, the war as it is being fought will continue -- a no win war. We can&#039;t win until we are willing to destroy that which is causing the problem by any means necessary.

I agree with Anonymous&#039; neo-Socialists (World Populists) tag, they are the studenst who spent their summers in Europe and, like John Kerry and France, think Europe is a wonderful lifestyle with a four-day workweek and 13 paid holidays a year, not to mention 30-day vacations for everybody and national healthcare. Europe IS a nice place to visit only because you  can leave the misserable living conditions and antiquated lifestyles. Why do you think Europe&#039;s wealthist move here?
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David Nicholas said:<br />
&#8220;However, I remain convinced that were al Qaeda to find themselves in possession of a suitcase nuclear device (a worst case scenario for us: missiles would be much better, because they&#8217;re harder to hide) and managed to detonate it in an American city, does anyone imagine that this would be the end of life as we know it?&#8221;</p>
<p>It would certainly cause widespread panic in all major cities as the populace wonders if bombs are also in their&#8217;s waiting to be detonated. Can you imagine a Katrina-style panic evacuation the next day all across America, and where would they go?</p>
<p>It doesn&#8217;t have to be a city that is bombed to bring America to its knees, ever hear of an EMP bomb? It&#8217;s a nuke detonated at high altitude which releases a huge electromagnetic shock wave knocking out everything electrical for hundereds of miles in all directions: power stations, automobiles, aircraft, etc. Melting millions of miles of powerlines would certainly change our lives for years &#8212; until they could be rebuilt.</p>
<p>Iran was reported last year to be testing long-range, high-altitude missles from ships detonating them over the Caspian Sea.</p>
<p>The real problem in the USA is that many people do not believe any of this could happen, they do not believe the enemy can defeat us. Until they do, the war as it is being fought will continue &#8212; a no win war. We can&#8217;t win until we are willing to destroy that which is causing the problem by any means necessary.</p>
<p>I agree with Anonymous&#8217; neo-Socialists (World Populists) tag, they are the studenst who spent their summers in Europe and, like John Kerry and France, think Europe is a wonderful lifestyle with a four-day workweek and 13 paid holidays a year, not to mention 30-day vacations for everybody and national healthcare. Europe IS a nice place to visit only because you  can leave the misserable living conditions and antiquated lifestyles. Why do you think Europe&#8217;s wealthist move here?</p>
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		<title>By: Brian J.</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/victordavishanson/war%e2%80%94what-war/#comment-1134</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian J.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jan 2007 00:00:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/victordavishanson/2007/01/12/war%e2%80%94what-war/#comment-1134</guid>
		<description>Cut to reality, folks.

The whining over &quot;Rules of Engagement&quot; is the clearest sign that NONE of the newest, newer-than-new strategy should be taken seriously.  It is Bush&#039;s first shot in establishing the Dolchstosslegende of two lost wars.  (How you folks can exonerate the shrub from the supposedly overly restrictive RoE we currently have when he and his cabal have dictated every US action, I do not know.)

Prepare for the GOoPers to be cast into the political wilderness.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cut to reality, folks.</p>
<p>The whining over &#8220;Rules of Engagement&#8221; is the clearest sign that NONE of the newest, newer-than-new strategy should be taken seriously.  It is Bush&#8217;s first shot in establishing the Dolchstosslegende of two lost wars.  (How you folks can exonerate the shrub from the supposedly overly restrictive RoE we currently have when he and his cabal have dictated every US action, I do not know.)</p>
<p>Prepare for the GOoPers to be cast into the political wilderness.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Wall</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/victordavishanson/war%e2%80%94what-war/#comment-1133</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Wall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jan 2007 20:43:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/victordavishanson/2007/01/12/war%e2%80%94what-war/#comment-1133</guid>
		<description>Mr. Stanley, I don&#039;t think we&#039;re likely to see individual suicide attacks in the malls. At least not soon. The fallout of that would be a severe restriction on men of Mid-Eastern descent. This would be counter productive to their efforts to organize the &#039;big&#039; ones.

Also remember that the US is an armed Nation very much unlike Europe. After a few malls were hit it would be a very dangerous place for any Mid-Eastern folks to move about.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Stanley, I don&#8217;t think we&#8217;re likely to see individual suicide attacks in the malls. At least not soon. The fallout of that would be a severe restriction on men of Mid-Eastern descent. This would be counter productive to their efforts to organize the &#8216;big&#8217; ones.</p>
<p>Also remember that the US is an armed Nation very much unlike Europe. After a few malls were hit it would be a very dangerous place for any Mid-Eastern folks to move about.</p>
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		<title>By: BOB IRVIN</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/victordavishanson/war%e2%80%94what-war/#comment-1132</link>
		<dc:creator>BOB IRVIN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jan 2007 20:38:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/victordavishanson/2007/01/12/war%e2%80%94what-war/#comment-1132</guid>
		<description>OF COURSE I AM DISAPPOINTED IN THE WASTE OF TIME, LIFE, MONEY IN THE IRAQ WAR.  PREHAPS OUR LEADERSHIP SHOULD BE REQUIRED TO PASS AN IQ TEST BEFORE ASSUMING OFFICE. THE MOST DENSE DUNCE WOULD KNOW IF YOU ARE STILL FAILING AFTER WASTING NEAR FOUR YEARS ITS PAST TIME TO TRY SOMETHING NEW OR BAIL OUT.  ENEMY SOURCES OF LOGISTICS IN IRAN AND SYRIA ARE STILL OPERATING UNTOUCHED, ARMED MILITIAS ARE STILL KILLING OUR TROOPS UNTOUCHED, STRICT RULES OF ENGAGEMENT GIVE COMFORT AND CONFIDENCE TO OUR ENEMY.  IF NOT ALLOWED TO FIGHT A WAR LIKE A REAL WAR SOMETHING GRAVELY IS WRONG IN THE LEADERSHIP LINEUP.  A PROFIT MAKING ORGANIZATION WOULD NOT, AND COULD NOT,  TOLERATE THIS INSANE INEPTNESS.

BOB I.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OF COURSE I AM DISAPPOINTED IN THE WASTE OF TIME, LIFE, MONEY IN THE IRAQ WAR.  PREHAPS OUR LEADERSHIP SHOULD BE REQUIRED TO PASS AN IQ TEST BEFORE ASSUMING OFFICE. THE MOST DENSE DUNCE WOULD KNOW IF YOU ARE STILL FAILING AFTER WASTING NEAR FOUR YEARS ITS PAST TIME TO TRY SOMETHING NEW OR BAIL OUT.  ENEMY SOURCES OF LOGISTICS IN IRAN AND SYRIA ARE STILL OPERATING UNTOUCHED, ARMED MILITIAS ARE STILL KILLING OUR TROOPS UNTOUCHED, STRICT RULES OF ENGAGEMENT GIVE COMFORT AND CONFIDENCE TO OUR ENEMY.  IF NOT ALLOWED TO FIGHT A WAR LIKE A REAL WAR SOMETHING GRAVELY IS WRONG IN THE LEADERSHIP LINEUP.  A PROFIT MAKING ORGANIZATION WOULD NOT, AND COULD NOT,  TOLERATE THIS INSANE INEPTNESS.</p>
<p>BOB I.</p>
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		<title>By: GCA</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/victordavishanson/war%e2%80%94what-war/#comment-1131</link>
		<dc:creator>GCA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jan 2007 19:57:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/victordavishanson/2007/01/12/war%e2%80%94what-war/#comment-1131</guid>
		<description>Nice work, as usual.  You inspire me to bone up on my history in order to better put these modern day conflicts in perspective.

Among most of the comments to this post there seems to be the assumption that we will prevail in the long run.  Seems to me, however, that this war, not just the battle in Iraq, cannot be decisively won until those in charge sell the American public (and to a lesser extent the publics of the other free countries) on the only reasonable and necessary justifcation for any war: agressors are threatening our freedom and lives, and free people cannot accept that.  Our forces are fighting with their hands tied behind their backs because of the constraints placed on them by public opinion.  Islamic totalitarianism cannot beat western liberalism (liberalism in the traditional sense), but Western Civilization could cede its existence out of misplaced guilt and its failure to appreciate its own right to survive and prosper without apology for its success.

In the long run it would be far less cruel to both the Islamicists and our own people to bring full force to bear sooner rather than later. The longer we maintain the status quo, the stronger our enemies grow.  The stronger our enemies become, the more costly in lives and resources (on both sides) it will be to finally resolve this clash of freedom versus tyranny, assuming we find the will to bring our strength to bear.  It will not end until there is a clear winner and a clear loser.  I, for one, value my freedom and want to be on the winning side.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice work, as usual.  You inspire me to bone up on my history in order to better put these modern day conflicts in perspective.</p>
<p>Among most of the comments to this post there seems to be the assumption that we will prevail in the long run.  Seems to me, however, that this war, not just the battle in Iraq, cannot be decisively won until those in charge sell the American public (and to a lesser extent the publics of the other free countries) on the only reasonable and necessary justifcation for any war: agressors are threatening our freedom and lives, and free people cannot accept that.  Our forces are fighting with their hands tied behind their backs because of the constraints placed on them by public opinion.  Islamic totalitarianism cannot beat western liberalism (liberalism in the traditional sense), but Western Civilization could cede its existence out of misplaced guilt and its failure to appreciate its own right to survive and prosper without apology for its success.</p>
<p>In the long run it would be far less cruel to both the Islamicists and our own people to bring full force to bear sooner rather than later. The longer we maintain the status quo, the stronger our enemies grow.  The stronger our enemies become, the more costly in lives and resources (on both sides) it will be to finally resolve this clash of freedom versus tyranny, assuming we find the will to bring our strength to bear.  It will not end until there is a clear winner and a clear loser.  I, for one, value my freedom and want to be on the winning side.</p>
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