Should Jews Apologize to Turkey or Go Back to Poland and Germany?
Memo to Ambassador Tan
The Turkish ambassador to the United States has a long op-ed in the Washington Post asking for Israel to apologize to Turkey for the Gaza flotilla incident, and urging the U.S. to pressure Israel to act accordingly. It is an important document since Amb. Tan couches his argument in moral terms — Israel illegally detained a ship on the high seas of civilian peace activists and human rights workers, killed Turkish citizens, and violated international law.
There is, of course, no mention by Tan of the origins and nature of the Turkish “peace” group that organized the gambit. Only in passing does the ambassador mention the rallying cries of the protestors (e.g., “Whatever the aid carriers may have chanted in opposition to Israel, this was a humanitarian initiative.”), after failing to note the chants, in fact, included both calls for a new holocaust (“Shut up, go back to Auschwitz” ) and glee about Americans killed on 9/11 (“Don’t forget 9/11″).
If anyone might be offering apologies, it should be Ambassador Tan, or at least an explanation for why a ship left a Turkish port headed for a planned confrontation. A ship, it should be added, staffed in large part by the Insani Yardim Vakfi organization, which according to American and European intelligence chiefs is a terrorist organization with ties to al-Qaeda — an apparent conclusion that formerly a Turkish government used to share when it periodically raided the IHH’s compounds.
But on a larger point, the sanctimonious tone of Tan’s piece is depressing. Turkey currently quite illegally and against world opinion sponsors the occupation of Cyprus. Nicosia is a far more divided city than Jerusalem. The Turkish government has killed far more Turkish Kurds than the Israeli government has Palestinians; it has zero tolerance for foreign human rights organizations that have wished to investigate the treatment of Kurds in Turkish prisons. Turkish fighter aircraft are not always so careful to stay on their side of the Aegean.
As far as the request that Americans pressure Israel, that is an odd wish from a society that continually broadcasts gruesome anti-American serials on its television channels, and now has chosen to reach out (far more even than the Obama administration) to the terrorist-sponsoring regimes in Teheran and Damascus that are responsible for a number of American deaths in Iraq. When Turkey has felt its own security threatened, it has had no problem with warning of an invasion of Syria or crossing Iraqi borders. Demands don’t work well in the Turkish-American relationship, as we remember from the U.S. House of Representatives’ request that the Turkish government offer some sort of regret for the genocide of the Armenians — a declaration that outraged the present Turkish government. Ambassador Tan evokes history, particularly the Ottomans and World War II, to cement his argument of past Turkish tolerance. Some of us who study Mediterranean history are not quite impressed by either the human rights record of the Ottoman sultanate or the Turkish role in the second World War, especially the German-Turkish friendship pact of June 1941, days before the Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union. My problem is that when I travel abroad, whether in Vienna, Cyprus, or old Smyrna, I am reminded of a different sort of past.
Many of us who have had positive feelings about Turkey in general and the Turkish-American relationship in particular have seen this past week’s events as a reminder of how different the present Turkish government wishes our relationship to evolve. Turkey’s present reset diplomacy had long ago convinced the EU to have second thoughts about extending membership to Ankara. And despite the protestations of our own foreign policy establishments, most Americans sense that the end of Turkey’s participation in NATO is only a matter of when, not if. Turkey wishes to reestablish, mutatis mutandis, its old Ottoman role as the more legitimate voice of the Sunni Muslim world. And that means it must sound radical to Muslims and sober and judicious to Westerners — and sometimes it tries both at the same time, as we now witness.
(If I were Greece, I would be somewhat anxious: its bankruptcy will mean a cut in military forces quite soon; it has gratuitously offended the Northern Europeans who will not be eager to lend it any more foreign aid, military especially; for 30 years anti-Americanism has been the mother’s milk of Greek politics, so Americans have come over to the Greek way of thinking that our shared NATO heritage is, well, at best a Cold War anachronism and at worst an embarrassment. And all this transpires at a time when an ascendant Turkey wants to carve out a new radical identity and seems to increasingly brag about its Ottoman past [note to Greeks: violently protesting against Israel will not impress Turkey, should it plan on revisiting Cyprus or re-adjudicating the nebulous Aegean border.])
Postmodern anti-Semitism
Yes, yes, I know — faulting Israel is hardly anti-Semitism. But note the obsessive focus on Israel, especially from the left. So take any issue: occupied land? Why do we not evoke Ossetia, Tibet, or Cyprus? Or for that matter Prussia?
Take a divided city? How about Nicosia?
Take disproportionate force? Try the leveling of Grozny?
Targeted killing? Our own Predators have killed more than Israeli air attacks.
The killing of Muslims? India and China trump Israel.
Wait — the issue is U.S. aid? OK, are we “shocked” that Egypt gets billions and harasses human rights activists, stifles democracy, and tortures its own?
No, the issue is blockading Gaza? So Turkish and European flotillas are off the Egyptian coast?
No, no, the problem is the detention of third parties in international waters? So President Obama has ended, as promised, rendition (remember the movie?)? Hardly.
Yes, the Arabs have hundreds of millions, Israel seven. Yes, they have oil, the Israelis none. Yes, libel a Jew and it’s cute, libel the prophet and go into hiding. And yes, Israel is a surrogate often for anti-Americanism. But all that said, it is still strange that so many Westerners focus such antipathy and attention on Israel over precisely the topics that they otherwise ignore in other countries.
It is not anti-Semitic to discuss divided cities, occupations, the use of force, blockades, refugees, etc. It is, when all these topics mysteriously appear only in reference to Israel so as to suggest it is somehow singular in its transgressions. I somehow know who Rachel Corrie is, but not any of the names of tens of thousands of Kurds in Turkey, or Chechens in Grozny, or Tibetans in China, or Egyptians in Cairo. Why? I know the rough square mileage of “occupied” Palestine, but not the acreage of Turkish-controlled Cyprus.
The doyen of the White House press corps, Helen Thomas, put it best when she wondered why the Jews didn’t just go back to Poland and Germany. Think of that for a second — a million thoughts spark: well, Helen, that’s where 6 million were gassed. Or, Helen, some Jews have been in “Palestine” from pre-antiquity. Or, Helen, some 3rd-generation Israelis have been in Israel as long as your family has been in the United States. Or, Helen, exactly how do you envision the process of removing them? Trains to Haifa, where boats head to “processing centers” in Bremen and Gdansk? Perhaps the Iranian quick way?
I realize Ms. Thomas is in her dotage, but had anyone else voiced anything similar about any other particular group, they would be banned from the White House press corps, rather than feted. Case closed.
NOTE.
1. I will discuss The Father of Us All today on Book-TV on C-span at 8:45 EST, and 5:45 out here in California — a small talk I gave at the Capitola book store near Santa Cruz.
2. I went to Huntington Lake to scout out our planned June 10 (next Saturday) hike to Kaiser Peak. The road to the stables, our starting point, was still not entirely cleared of snow. In fact, snow is everywhere. Locals cannot quite remember anything like the present landscape; the cool May and enormous pack conspired to turn June into April. The lake is not full, as flood releases empty it for the expected huge late melt. Snow is on both sides of highway 168. The ski slopes are still white. And I think many of the gullies and ravines on the route up will be blocked. All of which means Bruce Thornton and I will reschedule for July 10th, a Saturday. We will start at 7AM for Kaiser from the stables parking lot, and welcome any who wish to talk on the way up, at the summit, and on the way down (3-4 hours up, 2.5-3 down). In a month, it should be clear and dry. (Usually I go up around June 1 with no problem, but this isn’t any year, despite Sec. Chu’s prognostications that our farms in California are about to dry up and blow away.) Hope to see some of you on July 10, but think we would have been soaked if we tried next weekend.
WOW, Mr. Hanson I just don’t understand why the main stream media acts this way. How do we teach people the hypocrisy of the situation? Why do we continue to believe that if there is peace with the Arabs of palestine and Israel all will be better? Maybe I’m crazy, but I just don’t get it!
Whats not to get? There are two possibities.
1. The MSM continually edits interviews, denies
facts, misquotes, falsifies evidence, sensationalizes
but does it with the best of intentions.
2. The MSM is a propaganda organ of the Far Left
aiming to destroy the country..deliberately.
You decide.
Dr Hanson:
One wonders what would have to happen for the sleeping giant that is America to awaken and to be filled with a terrible resolve. Turkey clearly seems on a rapid downward path to Islamic militancy, and has even threatened to send warships to accompany future “peace” flotillas on their way to breaking the Gaza blockade. The world seems poised to push Israel so far into a corner that a release of nuclear weapons is a foregone conclusion, and for many third world states, this may well be what they desire. What better excuse for developing their own nuclear arsenals than Israel’s use of such weapons. That any such release will be a matter of national survival matters not at all. And does one have to stretch the imagination at all to imagine Obama’s America, at the least, withholding military aid to Israel, perhaps even taking military steps against Israel?
All the while, America parses terms and dithers. Our national security advisor imagines that there is an enormous cadre of moderate islamists out there just dying to accept American largess in exchange for reining in their more lunatic brethren. Our president just knows that the recent deaths of Islamist killers on the high seas were “unnecessary,” but he was careful to express his desire that all the facts be known before going further, say, claiming that Israel acted stupidly. And speaking of stupid, Israel would be stupid indeed to imagine that America under Barack Obama was anything but a covert enemy of Israel. Our presidential dithering has created an enormous power vacuum and any number of rogue states and Islamist killers are more than anxious to fill that vacuum. It’s merely a matter of time.
But we’re shooting hellfire missiles from Predator drones at high ranking terrorists! Right. In Iran? In Turkey? While we’re vaporizing the occasional militant miscreant–who, granted, deserves to be vaporized–the states that have, for decades sponsored the killing of Americans, and who have, in fact, killed Americans, go right on killing Americans and building more deadly weapons to kill even more Americans. We swat the occasional mosquito yet dare not drain the swamp or break out the DDT.
Helen Thomas? The press equivalent of Joe Biden. Both are embarrassing and both are revealing of those who continue to employ them, little more.
As I’ve often said, where Barack Obama is concerned, we’ll be fortunate indeed if all he does is bankrupt America
…well obama has bankrupted the country. there just hasn’t been an accounting yet.
this thing will not be reversed. there are just too many supporters of these insane policies.
the demise of the USA is technically accomplished.
Ditto—Obama is an accomplice to all USA enemies, especially to Radical Islam and Communists. Obama and this congress are doing exactly what Kruschev Boasted in 1960: “Kruschev said, “We will destroy the USA from within without firing a shot.” Kruschev knew then that we already had many Communist and other Anti-American members of congress, members of the bureaucracy and most especially that Hollywood was totally infested with Communist and Subversive Vermin and Perverts.” A mere 50 years later, we see that Kruschev was right. Look at the Anti-American, Anti-Capitalist Garbage that comes out of Hollywood and is played out daily on our TV sets and in movie theaters. Listen to the garbage playing on the radio in the guise of Music and Entertainment. Listen to what comes out of our Politicians in Washington’s mouths when they say things like what Al Cee Hastings, a member of the Congressional Black Caucus said, “The Constitution? We, the Congress, Do Not Care About the Constitution.” Or what Obama says, “We are going to Keep Our Boots on the Throats of Big Business.” Wake Up America, we have an Enemy and that Enemy Is Now Running our Own Government.
Obama has not done this. He is the figurehead. Vandals KNOW to fracture an established society/nation that WAR works AND that destruction of peoples’ security, their economies is a “peaceful” substitute for hot war — MUCH MORE EFFECTIVE THAN DIPLOMACY : it makes hyenas of all those affected. This Chief Executive is leading the nation, WITH THE ACTIVE AND WILLING COLLUSION OF THE “representatives of the People” into the quagmire if eternal, NEVER TO BE REPAID debt.The word for this is BONDAGE. ALL THESE PERSONS ARE ON OATH WHEN ACCEPTING THEIR POSITIONS TO UPHOLD AND DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION OF THE USA. What are the penalties for disregard or refusal to respect and act on that oath. A slap with a wet noodle?
BO is driving the US into a muslim state with shari law as the final end and his supreme dictatorship. Why suddenly the end to ownership of hand guns and or rifles in America. Makes it easier for the take over. There are millions of body bags already prepared for the many common graves of the defiant ones or dead free Americans. Wake up AMERICA any president who WILL NOT salute the flag that he is sworn to protect raises questions and alarm bells in me and I am a Canadian. He kisses muslem butts and ignores the Queen of England. He rejects Israel and loves gaza strange for a world leader. BUT IS HE?
It should be obvious the my American friends by now that Obama is a moslem sleeper put in place to destroy the US and the free world. Why is not impeached as a traitor?
Exactly correct.
The math is easy to calculate.
To stop the math is impossible; and to reverse it requires a lot more than a calculation.
The damage is done. The financial commitments are in place.
How I wish I could take the hike with you! I will be watching you on C-Span this evening. If the Obama Admin does not repudiate Helen Thomas – there is not much more to be said about where their true loyalties lie…
The WH is in lockstep with Helen Thomas. Obama obviously has no love for Israel as he dissed their PM and cavorts with the terrorist-supporting countries. If I was an Israeli, I’d be very worried.
I wonder if there isn’t also another aspect to it. Israel, being a Western nation, that also defends its people against hostile assault (quite successfully, I might add), implicitly condemns the fecklessness of most of the modern Western establishment. Israel has stood up to Islamist forces many times its own size, and not only won, but prospered. That kind of blows the whole idea that surrender is the best option completely out of the water. It shows that the West’s failures against Islamists in the past didn’t have to happen, the blood baths that followed did have to happen, and that they did is our own damn fault.
Israel’s continued existence calls out Europe and the Left for being cowards. Of course they will hate Israel for it.
Harry Voyager
Wait—the issue is U.S. aid? OK, we are “shocked” that Egypt gets billions and harasses human rights activists, stifles democracy, and tortures its own?
Yes, but Egypt gets aid because of its “friendship” with Israel.
I think Israel would actually be better off not getting so much aid from the US. That way it would be able to make decisions based exclusively on its own interests without having to worry about US opinion. It would hurt of course, but what’s more important? The money or the freedom to deal with the Palestinians as Israel sees fit? Security should come first.
Are you willfully ignorant of the role Jews played in bankrolling General Washington, and those who took on the redcoats, and the others under General Cornwalis in the American Revolutionary War?
As long as people think they can get away only with what justifies themselves, then the human race can only count
on some when it comes to the human race progressing to where it needs to be.
I’m entirely in agreement as are many others who love Israel. My fantasy is that Israel takes the initiative and respectfully suggests a gradual but substantial reduction.
(Sorry about the reference to British national character in another post, Coisty. Uncalled for.)
David, I wholeheartedly concur that the aid given to Israel is an albatross around our Jewish Israeli necks.
Few realize that the military aid is NOT a gift, but it is money that is MANDATED to be poured back into US defense contractors coffers.While US defense companies get money and jobs out of the deal, Israel is RESTRICTED from using many of our own defense contractors for similar projects.This not only hurts our own defense industry, but TETHERS us to dependence on US made spare parts.Stupid is as studid does….
Furthermore, the combination of ALL the aid is a blip on our economic GDP, we hardly need it in terms of monetary value, it is less than 3%, easily made up IF our defense boys/girls could do even more business than they currently do! HOWEVER, the reason why the aid is asked for has everything to do with tying us to US policy, thus making sure that we toe Washington’s line-certainly many times going against our own interests.
So, the legitimate question becomes- why do our leaders continue on this path of folly? One MUST understand the tethering of our ruling, left business elitists (for whom the political operatives really work)who in turn are ‘in bed’ with powerful Washington players.Incestuous does not begin to explain it, (and therefore, Washington is able to meddle ALL the time in our domestic politics due to these ties that bind/choke us) and of course in our foreign policy too.
Whenever one witnesses that Jerusalem initiates a policy which seems counterintutive to its own interests, rest assured the strings are being pulled from their Washington handlers. Tragically, Israel’s leaders are less interested in saving Zion (our Jewish inheritance) than in playing in the biggest league of all – Washington’s powerful circles of access.
Beautifully put. Truth, ain’t it wonderful?
I agree. Israel should have stop US aid long time ago. After all our economical situation is good and there is no reason for taking US money.
But we depend on US in other ways and even stoping it at once wont free us from US pressure or influence.
The slanderous stories of Jews as cannibals, killers, and Quaternary simians told to children in the Mohammedan Middle East arouse their lust for hatred, a simple endeavor for populations subdued into submission by life-long reigning despots, and ruled by the death over life entreaties contained in the Qur’an.
The Rachel Corries in our parts of the world, however, have less mitigating socio-pathologies to cover for their ignorance of history and preference for propaganda.
Schadenfreude, perhaps, forms a trinity with the most basic of emotions, in the middle between love and hate? That would also explain the contempt our historic first Islamic apostate president has for our way of life.
I see most of the protesters/activists/etc. as little more than children who enjoy the attention they attract by poking at Israel. After all…I think we ALL know what would happen to them if they were found by the Turks sneaking supplies to the Turkish Kurds. Or the Chinese sneaking supplies into Tibet. Or collaborating with the persecuted Chechnyans. We’d never hear from them again. And they know it. That is why, for example, most American anger at the Chinese’s treatment of Tibetans centers around that stupid Free Tibet bumper sticker. There’s no risk in it. Note too a large part of the anger directed towards Israel is because they haven’t acted with proper fealty after the botched boarding. They haven’t said a proper “I’m sorry”.
Hey, whatever happened to Darfur?
Oh, that’s so last year.
They’ve raised the black flag.
It’s that simple.
You’re not putting me on any damn boxcar.
the washington post is on the balls of its a$$, therefore it publishes this crap, similar to the heinous leftist anti-semitic rag, the nytimes. turkey had best apologize to israel for sponsoring a boatload of al queda murderers and their slobbering followers who thought this was their big chance, and instead ended up with holes in their heads. turkey might also want to apologize to the hundred or so genuine turkish “activists” now in turkish prisons. they are the result of erdogan’s putsch against the elite military and political supporters of a secular state as ataturk conceived it. hopefully, there still is chance for civil war in turkey as erdogan sucks off iran and syria, and ushers in sharia law.
and, hey how about those kurds?
I was in Turkey in 2003 (?) when the election was lost to the current non-secular Muslim leader. At that time, while on vacation, I chatted with a young college student who’s father was the equivalent of Secretary of State for Turkey.
He told me that the average income in Turkey was about $500 / month, and that the concentration of wealth was very high. There was just essentially no middle class whatsoever, principally due to the very low level education system.
That kind of widespread poverty has now come home to roost. The country is out of control. They failed to build an economic base to allow the average citizen the opportunity to advance their cause, earn more income, and gain some form of additional choices beyond food and shelter, such as education.
What a disaster.
Well, the Turks have a long history and favorable viewpoint of genocide so it’s no wonder they’d support terrorist thugs that deny Israel (and Jews, too) right to exist. Upset with the Jews? What about the Kurds, you hypocritical (multiple expletives deleted).
As far as the Ambassador goes, he can go F-off. The US, NATO, and the rest of the world can get along without Turkey without barely noticing it’s gone, so why should we care what they think? Turkey has milked it’s relationship with the US as much as they possibly can (ask any service member who had the misfortune of being stationed in that fourth world dump) and frankly, we don’t need you any more. If we need your land, we’ll negotiate with Kurdistan.
I to wish to join you and companions on your hike. Your living in Fresno, may I recommend a fu hiking area? In Clayton, outside of Concord is the inactive volcano; Mt. Diablo. If I recall she has one of the furthest viewing points in the country due to the Golden State’s ~sea level elevation.
The only disagreement I have with your article is the term, ‘Palestinian’. There is no such people. For those folks are voluntarily, displaced empathy seeking individuals. Sadly, their ‘unobtainable’ goal is reaching the brain-dead masses.
Dr. Hanson:
Which dimocrart or republican potential candidate for the presidency in 2012 if elected would improve the world situation for the United States of America and her allies?
Will you please offer yourself up as an alternative to corrupt politicians in 2012?
We could name you the Constitutional Patriot and say that now at least the American People have a choice, not an echo.
Long ago I asked VDH to consider public service as a part of his CV, sadly he declined. IMHO, the nation is not being well served by our current crop of politicians, VDH would be a breath of fresh air.
Some things that would get the attention of Ankara.
1 – Turkey booted out of NATO.
2 – Athens plays nice with her Balkan neighbours, Georgia, the Czechs, Slovaks, Hungarians, Poles, the Baltic Countries, Italy, France, Spain & Portugal (with timely augmentation by Israel) to ensure that Constantinople winds up under Greek control. Why? The current crowd does not do a very good job of ensuring freedom of worship and freedom of religion.
The floor is open to add to this list.
Constantinople? Forget about it. Byzantium….
Okay, call the city renovated by Constantine what you will, but I am thinking that if any of the countries listed above would welcome American volunteers, like Great Britain did in the Second World War, before Pearl Harbour, the potency of their military would increase.
Given some details are coming to light about Iranian money
bankrolling the AKP, I am not surprised to see Erdogan being the monkey while Khamenei is the organ grinder.
I would be that American President doing the right things for our country. I would go as far as asking turkey to pay us, US, back all the money we put in them for so many decades in NATO where the turks are and have been quite worthless. Oh, but I am a Romanian born US citizen, can’t run for president, unless I get a short form bc and declare myself an American born.
And let’s not forget Romania as an ally of NATO and Greece. They can help a lot I would think. I would love to take back Bosfor, put back the Constantinopole as a name over the so called istambul, pay back to the turkish ottoman empire for 8 centuries of warfare and genocide against Israel, Balkans and Eastern Europe including the Iberic Peninsula, So. France and Austria when they got that far.
Florin for US president in 2012. No Experience, No Corruption, Only Solutions.
There is going to be a demonstration tomorrow in front of the Israeli consulate in support of Israel.
Location: Los Angeles Consulate for Israel
LaJolla and Wilshire Blvd.
Time: 2:00 PM
It appears that the spirit of the Armenian Genocide lives on in Turkey.
One reason why the Arab/Muslim world remains so hostile to Israel afer all these years is that they are confused, bewildered and angry at Israel’s success. Israel is a modern, vibrant, productive country with the highest standard of living of any country in the region. This goes against everything Muslims have been indoctrinated to believe about infidels/Jews. To the Muslim mindset this is not supposed to be, they can’t come to grips with it. Israel flourishes while most of the Muslim world remains borderline primative. From a Muslim perspective the natural order of things has been turned upside down. The existence of a prosperous Israel represents a formidable piece of empirical evidence that calls into question the Muslim supremacist view of themselves.
Google “Michael Coren” “Bat Ye’or” and you will find a 5 part series of the interview. There was one other guest, who was an Islamic Scholar, but no longer, and he appeared
in silhouette.
Reforming Islam into something more peaceful looks more difficult than putting toothpaste back into the tube after
it has been squeezed out.
Reforming Islam into something more peaceful
can’t be done unless you change the Koran which is forbidden
penalty? guess!
it’s called BIDAH- no NEW thing is allowed in ISLAM
I think it was Nonie Darwish (maybe Wafa Sultan) who in an interview challenged the people who advocate CHANGE in ISLAM
saying it is not permitted- it’s a take it or leave type of thing
penalty for leaving it? guess!
That was the point made by “Sam” who was an Islamic Scholar, but has left it, like Walid Shoebat left Islam.
It is what was communicated by Allah, so the Sons of Allah
say. But, that raises a question: how did burkas or niqabs get to be used in Muslim culture, when they are not
in the Koran or the Haddiths? It looks like the list of “Allah said ____” is getting longer.
The Turks, our ally at the time, did block the northern entry into Iraq. No doubt eliminating a pincer movement that could have benefited the invasion on many fronts. With a void at the top and a clueless State Dept. the U.S. will be little help in coming events. The only glimmer of hope is Gates will not allow our military to be completely overrun and humiliated by this scandalous bunch of neophytes.
The Turks waffling didn’t just prevent a pincer….They actively tied up the 4th Mech Inf Division, actively rendering 20,000 fighters unable to contribute. How many deaths did that contribute to, especially in the North?
Mr. Hanson: your argument this article is less than pathetic
yes: Turkey has occupied Cprus and they also killed a million Armenians which to this day they deny. so what Greece is in bankrupcy? you are right they should have never had the Olympics..so what they are killing people in Grozny? so what Egptians torture their people with our federal tax dollars..so what does two or more wrongs make a right? these governments that I mentioned here are pathetic. that does not condon the Israeli behaivior… get hip to
Israeli government is a criminal government who just excuted 9 people at point blank with our tax dollars.. where did you go to school
“…where did you go to school”.
Miriam must be school shopping. Here’s a suggestion: any 3rd grade grammar text will help. You’re not ready for college.
Victor Davis Hanson is an award-winning historian. He knows of what he speaks. More importantly, your arguments have proven his point.
Why is it that we keep hearing that old mantra? “They were shot in the head at point blank range.” Can’t the Arab spin doctors come up with something new? This song and dance appears every chance they have. Last time they even showed bullets in the skulls of children, all fake. And………………you are so stupid to believe it. Wait till you hear it for the hundreth time.
I can believe that they were shot at point blank range. When someone is beating you to death with an iron bar and you shoot him to save your own life, it will be at point blank range.
… and if they’re wearing a bullet proof vest, guess where they get shot.
For this reason, and unlike police forces, military close quarter combat shooters are taught to aim for the head.
The original article sai they were shot at close range. Given the size of the deck the fighting took place on, there was nothing further away than “close range”.
Turning close range into point blank is miriam’s personal invention.
“With our tax dollars”?
I would find this more convincing if you had a somehow better mastery of English.
Since I’m being held for moderation and can’t edit:
“somewhat better”, of course.
” … with our tax dollars… ”
So you are a half-literate American citizen, with minimum reading comprehension, logic and knowledge, who feels entitled to write nonsense against a scholar like Hanson … You make me worry about U.S. democracy, not Israel’s.
Miriam,
You’re uninformed.
Walter Duranty, and the people who saw life as he saw it, disputed the writings of Malcolm Muggeridge, when it came to the Soviet Union. You see, Muggeridge got it right, as did VDH. You, on the other hand, are content to peddle propaganda about the justifications of raiders who
stormed out of the Arabian Peninsula 14 centuries ago, and
those who followed them.
Tribalism is part of your identity, and frankly I accept that there are realities more powerful than geography.
BLAME THE PARENTS. I’m still waiting for the psychologists and “counselors” so quick to blame parents when their offspring get into trouble,or must defend themselves against bullies. Have, oddly, not had a word from them about the parents in this case. Why so silent, so detached? I refer to the parents of Israel. Where are the comments by, and about the parent, the United Nations Which often seems rather than to defend its “little one” actively AIDS AND ABETS the assaults. Come psychologists, this should be right up your alley.
sadly your are a fine example of the retarded logic used against Israel.
when the day comes when you will have the opportunity to live as the arabs live you will ask yourself why we didn’t do more to support the only democracy in the middle east.
Yeah Hanson… get HIP to it! ;-)
(no complaining: I wrote this on the spur of the moment :-)
Get HIP to the groove of Israeli Piracy at sea
Real Pirates don’t be killin’ their enemy!
Get HIP Victor H. to those wily Jews
Get HIP lest all your money they’s gonna steal from you
Get HIP to to the fact that all them other lies
Don’t make Israel any good — they be despised
Get HIP VDH and your soul might be saved
Get HIP & forget ’bout them others dying every day
Get HIP to Israel and the evil she’s done
’cause it’s she dat warrants ALL our opprobrium
I was just thinking that someone had to respond to the falsehoods published on the Washingtonpost op-ed page. What about the other article by Daoud Kuttab,a Palestinian Journalist, who also passes off more falsehoods like, “…and the absence of violent intent or goods on board the ships are so obvious.”
The question is, why is the Wash.Post printing falsehoods in mass?
The same reason they print Helen Thomas’ BS?
Because the left hates Israel?
Both?
I rarely defend the Washington Post, but in all fairness, the WP had an editorial that was very critical of Turkey’s government as well as of the Turkish ambassador’s op-ed.
The Jew’s have bent over long enough. They will go down fighting .
Fight, yes. Go down? The money is the other way. The Arabs couldn’t defeat Israel with support from the Soviet Union, I doubt that absent ‘international’ (US) pressure, the IDF wouldn’t occupy Amman, Damascus and Cairo.
And you know what? Those countries would be run better.
No. The Israelis should demand that the United Nations (sic) investigate the Armenian genocide.
Like that’d happen. Israel could say water is wet and the UN, Amnesty International, the muslim nations and the EU would declare that it’s not true, and a zionist, racist statement.
My advice to the Israelis: better now the later. It’s obvious which way the tide is turning. The ‘liberal’ (sic) democracies are totally dependent on Arab oil and American military protection. The Eurotrash want only their thirty hour ‘work’ week, 8 weeks vacation, endless government subsidies, and no responsibility. Anything that might disturb their somnolence is unwelcome. Witness the Greek response to national economic collapse. The great promise of western civilization has been bartered for smug complacency, cheap pleasures and moral bankruptcy. Now is the time for national Darwinism.
Israel should tell Turkey they will apologize when Turkey apologizes for the Armenian Genocide. It helped embolden Hitler to pursue a similar tactic with Jews.
Israel should tell the Turks they’ll apologize when the Turks apologize to the Armenians for the genocide they perpetrated on them. Turkey’s treatmens of Armenians embolded Hitler to undertake a similar treatent for Jews.
Sanctimonious twits.
Even if Turkey apologizes to Armenians, China to Tibet, Sudan to Darfur, etc., there is still absolutely no reason for Israel to apologize to Turkey.
That’s right. When Hitler’s military advisors questioned the extermination camps, saying that it would result in a stain on the German identity, Hitler replied, “Who remembers the Armenians?” With that answer, they were convinced to proceed.
There is a link here with Turkey that is echoing through history. How very disturbing that it is all within living memory!
I am a believer in Jesus Christ. Read the Bible– God will vindicate Israel! The United States has been blessed because she supports Israel.
Before the Messiah can come the second time (OK, for Jews, the first time) the temple must be rebuilt. Only the Jews can do that rebuilding. The destinies of Christians and Jews are intertwined and Christians who don’t see that need to do some serious study.
ElisaPardo,
You are correct, and, I’m not sure how many know this, but, one of the Rockefellers just recently announced that he would fund the entire project to rebuild the Temple on the foundations of the Temple of Solomon.
This is one of the final markers of the Battle of Armageddon. At the moment, the Al Aqsa Mosque occupies the Temple Mount, setting on the foundations of Solomons Temple. It would need to be razed in order for this to happen.
The Jews were lending money and all sorts of other outrageous Mammon-worshiping things out of their temple when the Son of Man walked the earth. I doubt the temple is all that important.
People need to know what parts of the Bible to take literally, and what parts to take allegorically. I think those who take the Book of Revelation literally miss the boat.
It’s not surprising that the media ignores the abject hypocrisy of the situation, since the facts don’t jibe with the intended narrative. Liberal liars triumph over the truth and facts are largely irrelevent.
On another note, scientists have recently reported on a genetic analysis of Jewish populations around the world that seem to confirm the relatedness of the Jews. Recall, that the Paleos and other leftists have tried to deligitimize Israel as a creation of Europeon interlopers. Sorry, Charlie (or should I say Muhammed), science has proven you wrong again. See: http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/06/04/jews-worldwide-linked-common-genetic-ancestry/
Always great to read an honest historian. One who points out agendas rather than follows one. Thank you Doctor Hanson
You are all shouting into the void and spinning the truth.
Casual reading of the world’s press reveals that the gates of hell are opened up to swallow Israel and the Jews.
How could it happen that the Final Solution is openly promoted, and actively suggested again?
Even in America where no one dares to expel illegals, the ever giggling Obamao shill, the freakish Helen Thomas with contemptuous nonchalance, wants to expel the Jews beck to Poland: even those who where born in Arab land or elsewhere.
What is the explanation?
Only the blind cannot see that Obamao ascension to the presidential throne, his acquiescence to the supremacy of Islam resuscitated the smoldering hatred of the Jews. It is righteous to kill the Jews now.
Is this explanation?
Far from it.
The entirely American Jewish establishment supports and supported this thug without raising a voice, without protest and even today they are the chief supporters and chief officers of the Communist-Islamofascist enterprise.
The Jewish collaboration and leading role in this sinister turn of event gave undisputed legitimacy to the worst atrocities that might happen in the future. The whole bloody pandemonium was organized by an American Jewess, named Greta Berlin.
When I see that American Jews incite against their brethren, when I see the Leftist protest against Israel in Tel Aviv, the boycott drive by British Jews, the Jstreet, the N.Y.Times etc. I would recoil at the idea of getting involved Mr. V.D.H.
The ADL main concern is the Arizona’s law. The ACLU at war with the cross and in full support of the Mosque near the tomb of its victims. The SPLC is after the whities….
Do you want to declare war on the American Jewish media, money and influence – haven’t you Discovered the Network yet?
What percentage of black people voted for Obama?
Sorry, but your rantings sound just like the rants of Jews
being Arch-capitalists, squeezing ordinary folk out of business, and Communists who hate Capitalism.
Circular logic is round, but hardly logical.
A bit of a “black humor” in response to your beautiful post.
For months before the election in 2008 I was reading series of articles in Jerusalem Post (which I visit frequently) written by two very prominent American Jews, Allan Dershowitz and Edward Koch in which they both have been salivating themselves enthusiastically over Obama’s alleged pro-Jewesness urging fellow Yanks to vote for and their Israeli brethrens to trust THE BASTARD.
I read those rants with my jaw dropping as it has been clear to me from the very moment THE DEMON appeared on the political scene that he consists a mortal danger not only to America but abowe all to Israel.
In a desperate and vain attempt to grasp the roots of breathtaking absurdity of their rants I began having some strange and (I think) ludicrous suspicions that the leadership of the American Jewish Diaspora (they all voted for THE ANTICHRIST, didn’t they) is actually interested in Israel Jews’ new holocaust.
I concluded that if Israel were to be destroyed Dershowitz would launch a gigantic lawsuit (class actin) against the “International Community” but the recipients of the compensation that would be ultimately paid by the American taxpayer (let’s say 1 tryllion bucks) would be the American Jews.
Can you imagine the commision that Dershowitz would receive from such a lawsuit?
I know it is absurd but how can anyone explain the genesis of BARBARIC STUPIDITY that those 78% of American Jews are displaying?
When will the Western Governments and Citizens wake up to the threat from all Muslim Countries.
The International Muslims appear to have a long range plan to destroy all of the Christian/Jewish countries.
And it appears the Left media and Liberal Political Class will be their willing friend and allies.
The American Voter will have to take to the streets within 3-5 years, unless we all wake up and speak up.
Get the Liberal Political Class out of Washington.
#27 The liberals are not just in Washington, they are in Los Angeles, Portland, New York, Seattle, everywhere, they are like maggots on a dying dogs body Unless something is done to re-educate our society starting with the children, the Union will be nothing more than a bunch of helpless states comprised of weaklings and ignorant dependent cry babies.
Perhaps a good clown show is what we need, you know, as a nation.
So that’s why you continue to post here.
Egypt friendly with Israel? I dont think so. This from the BBC 5 June 2010
“A court in Cairo has upheld a ruling urging the government to consider stripping of their citizenship Egyptian men who are married to Israeli women”
Really friendly.
Odd how progressives are only too happy to rearrange national borders and displace populations when it suits their political objectives, viz. the Treaty of Trianon. I’ll believe the anti-Israel whiners motives are genuine when they start demanding that Hungary be returned to its pre-Trianon borders.
In all due honesty, Trianon was coming for years, and even the Conservatives in the Western Allies realized it was necessary to weaken the threat of Hungarian militarism and to prevent a resurrection of Habsburg power in Central Europe.
Not really comparable to demanding Israel be wiped from the face of the map.
I think the reply proves my point. Rearranging borders and displacing populations is “ok” if the political objective is politically correct.
Rearrainging borders absolutely (anybody ELSE care to let the Turks rule the Middle East and the Balkans), displacing populations only if necessary (does anybody really doubt that the world would be a lot nicer if the malignant squatters we have illegally in the Southwest were removed, as well as any found deliberately supporting them?).
It’s hardly only a Progressive thing. It’s just that they are willing to do it at the drop of a hat and for THE flimsiest reasons imaginable (see the partition of 1948).
Good riddance, PJM. Your censorship stinks.
Good. All censorship stinks.
Did you have an actual …. point?
As far as Helen Thomas is concerned, where in the world does she think that Jews in Israel whose parents and grandparents that are of Iraqi, Mizrahi, Yemeni and Sephardi origin should go? To Poland and Germany? In fact Jews of European origin are a minority in Israel. She is woefully ignorant of the history of Jewish civilization in North Africa and the Middle East including as Dr. Hanson mentioned, the continuing Jewish presence in Israel since the destruction of the Second Temple.
she is also ignoring the fact that her own parents would not have fled Lebanon unless it was being overrun by Hezzboliars- (see Brigitte Gabriel story)
Lebanon was set aside as a Christian and Druze nation for the same reason Israel was set aside for JEWS- Muslims perpetrate violence against any minority group.
Lebanon has been overtaken by IRANIAN interlopers they first killed and ran off the indigenous population and now they have the numbers by birth rates to compete politically (it also helps when you assassinate any rivals). Of course not having any real loyalty to Lebanon or Lebanese they sacrificed it to destroy Israel- Iran provokes from Leb border and fights in their land with proxies, that way Iran remains untouched politically and militarily- Lebanon, formerly the jewel of the MidEast, properous, somewhat secular and free has been demolished.
SHAME SHAME on Helen Thomas who KNOWS this- is her jewhate and love of ISLAM so great she would spit on her parents graves?
the jews aren’t going anywhere.
just as the al queda gang bangers on that flotilla went somewhere after encountering the IDF, the rest of islime can count on allah’s eternal paradise being a cesspool deep enough and wide enough to hold all the world’s crap.
VDH says “Tan couches his argument in moral terms — Israel illegally detained a ship on the high seas of civilian peace activists and human rights workers, killed Turkish citizens, and violated international law.
There is, of course, no mention by Tan of the origins and nature of the Turkish “peace” group that organized the gambit.”
Ok, but why should Turkey mention those things? Surely it is not up to them to put the Israeli side of the argument forward? This is politics. It is up to the Israelis (and the US) to counter the Turkish ambassadors BS. Why are they failing so badly to do this effectively?
If right is on their side (and I believe it is) then the Israelis…with the support of the US…need to start pushing back against the anti-semetic tide a little bit smarter. Somehow, incredibly, the Israelis and Jews in general seem to have contrived to squander the moral authority due to them resulting from the holocaust. OK, 65 years of relative peace in the “West” has raised generations of ignoramuses who have no means of guaging actual evil any more – which means that poor oppressed Gazans appears to be the only story – but Israel and its friends in the US need to start manipulating the media as effectively as their enemy if this issue is to be corrected.
You can’t rely on your enemy to do your work for you!
The problem is, there are people who are afraid at being called racist. This is why shakedown schemes work, it isn’t worth it, in the eyes of those being shaken down, to go after the shakedown artists. So, they just pass on the costs initially to whoever crosses their path, and ultimately everyone.
Frankly, take a look at the open letter to the world by Rabbi Meir Kahane from 1988. He didn’t care about being
called a racist, because he shone the light of the double standard employed against the Jew.
There is, of course, no mention by Tan of the origins and nature of the Turkish “peace” group that organized the gambit. Only in passing does the ambassador mention the rallying cries of the protestors (e.g., “Whatever the aid carriers may have chanted in opposition to Israel, this was a humanitarian initiative.”), after failing to note the chants, in fact, included both calls for a new holocaust (“Shut up, go back to Auschwitz” ) and glee about Americans killed on 9/11 (“Don’t forget 9/11″).
The IDF admitted today in a press release that it doctored audio footage from its exchanges with the Gaza flotilla in order to paint the flotilla passengers as anti-Semites. I am beginning to wonder if the Israeli military hired James O’Keefe to handle its press shop….It’s nice that the IDF has “clarified” its doctoring of footage. But the new clip it has released that supposedly shows “the entire segment…in which the exchange took place and the comments were made” is highly suspect as well. Why? Because it contains an exchange with Huwaida Arraf that Arraf claims took place on an entirely different attempt to break the siege — Arraf has led previous aid boats to Gaza that were intercepted and hijacked by the IDF. Arraf told Ma’an New
You’re not a journalist, you’re a propaganda disseminating human bot with no critical thinking skills.
I was waiting for this: an ad hominen attack.
Writing a column, which this is, is different than reporting. Check with Bernard Goldberg, kapo.
But anyway. As if anti-semitism is a justification for murder. Only in your crazy heads. Or should we go out and kill Tancredo?
Or should I say, Amalekite.
This is going to end badly. Israel cannot hold out without American support, and it seems obvious that Obama won’t give it to them. Get ready for the nukes.
Obama is a disaster for us, and for the world.
yes, certainly.
Israel will go down fighting–and soon.
obama in the oval office is a disaster for America, for Israel and for the world.
Think “President Osama”
censored
Another good one. Thanks professor.
“Once you need to defend yourself, you have lost the argument” I don’t know who said it, but I can accept the its strategic value for the moment.
A logical conclusion of the above-argument is that Israel has screwed herself royally by accepting blame for anything and not attacking her attackers.
Thus – Israel was indeed perfectly justified in killing people who tried to kill its soldiers. There are reports that the initial four soldiers who landed on the boat were stripped bare and beaten, to be held as hostages for later ransom. The operation that led to the death of the “humanitarians” was designed to prevent kidnapping – an ancient form of barter still rampant in primitive world – from being inflicted once again upon Israel, as in the case of Gilad Shalit.
The emerging meme of “The seige of Gaza is unsustainable” is not true. It is perfectly sustainable with the support of the United States. Should the United States fail to side with Israel in this matter, it will be supporting Israel’s destruction – which is against American policy at the moment. This conundrum can be handled by Mr. Obama indicating that Israel is justified in its siege policy and that America will work to maintain it.
Indeed, Europe will be better off with the Israeli siege in place, since it can use it to pressure its own burgeoning Muslim population into adopting the Western value of “live and let live.” Right now Europe is living on borrowed time, both financially and politically. Failure to support Israel is a failure of values clarification and thus will lead to chaos, literal as well as figurative.
As to the bitter Helen Thomas, she is now a test of the administration’s support of Israel. It is amazing how clear Helen Thomas has made the issue. There is no room for anyone to excuse her. She is the point of a needle in the eye of the Obama administration. Let us see how they handle the pain!
Let us imagine if, in the manner of Helen Thomas, Rush Limbaugh or Glen Beck were to say, “You know. Not only should we send the Mexicans back to Mexico, but we should send all African-Americans back to Africa.”
God save our Republic!
You played that play before – in Europe from 1919 till 1947.
In support of #29, above—–the long range plan is and always has been Islam. The long range plan has been in place for several centuries. It is just that in our era the plan is incredibly well funded by the trillions of dollars the West sends to the Middle East in exchange for its oil.
The Jews should leave Israel and head to Europe, but not as immigrants. They should come as conquerors. Israeli ingenuity and military prowess could easily take over Sweden or perhaps Greece.
Israel should join North Korea, Sudan, Cuba, Iran, Venezuela and the other rogue states that are tolerated by the rest of the world. Just up and move the whole kit and caboodle. Sure the Jew haters will scream and gnash their teeth but in the end the precautionary principle will be adhered to and nothing will be done.
Once the Jews establish the new Israel we can sit back in Stockholm or Athens and watch the Arabs squirm under the thumb of Tehran.
Interesting. However, working on the premise that money talks, Israel would have a receptive audience amongst those on the northern shoreline of the Mediterranean Sea, and those countries from the Balkans to the Baltics. Why? Because their balance sheets are in disarray, and Jews know how to make money.
The alternative is sharia financing in Europe via Turkey
being invited into the EU, and one can expect higher interest rates for those who do not adhere to Islam, as compared to those who do.
I seem to recall a quote, possibly from a Rothschild, about not caring about who writes the laws, but control
over money.
As for the Germans, let them deal with the Benelux countries and Scandinavia.
How about invading turkey? Via Lebanon and Syria? No doubt the Israelis could work a deal with the Kurds and Cypriots that was mutually beneficial.
Wouldn’t the allies be fighting through Lebanon & Syria?
I can actually see that being one front in a Mid East War
because Khamenei and Ahmadinezhad will not stay on the sidelines.
Mike: “One wonders what would have to happen for the sleeping giant that is America to awaken and to be filled with a terrible resolve”. Mike, this country is bankrupt. The middle east is another continent halfway around the world. What do you want us to do with this “terrible resolve”?
Pity Helen Thomas. Who shot this video? Looks kinda like the old girl was set up with a button hole camera. Even a senescent old timer like her would know better to drop that kind of statement in public. A real gotcha moment providing great fodder for Drudge, Savage and even Ari Fleischer. Of course these folks have no bias. No doubt her comments were hurtful to those who have suffered but better to address the message than call for her head.
There are many people including American Jews who do not support what the Netanyahu government is doing. These kinds of disproportionate responses make one worry even more about nuclear weapons. Gen. George C Marshall foresaw the problems we find ourselves in. But I guess that is neither here nor there at this point.
Thanks for the C-Span heads up. Enjoyed the program. I was surprised that there were no young people in the audience. They aren’t interested? The hike sounds good!
just to keep you guys honest, Israel does have oil, in fact they are headed for the status of energy exporter.
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/137886
When you link to stories it’s a good idea to first read them. That story is about natural gas fields – NOT oil. You can’t export natural gas like oil as the costs are extremely high (compared to oil) and it requires massive infrastructure to be built (direct pipelines) long before one can start making any money.
“According to the new appraisal, the Leviathan oil field nearby has a good chance – about 50% – of holding gas or oil to the tune of 16 trillion feet – nearly twice the size of Tamar. The finds could supply Israel’s gas needs for the next 20 to 35 years.
Actually, they do have Oil, but, in minute quantities compared to the Gas in their inventory. As to the thought that a Pipeline is necessary, I helped build Train C and D of the PT Badak LNG in Bontang, Indonesia, and, they use a form of Conveyor Belt to ship their Oil, in the form of 4 Huge LNG Tankers that shuttle Gas from Bontang to Japan (2 in Port, loading and unloading, with 2 at sea going each direction).
Joel Rosenberg’s novels ending with Dead heat, and starting with The last jihad make that point. The novels
are as fictional as “A tale of two cities” by Charles Darwin.
Yesterday, I’ve written an article on my blog on this exact topic…
Inquiring minds demand to know – is Turkey cooked yet?
Many observers were surprised by hysterical reaction of the Turkish government to the recent clash between jihadist militia masquerading as peace activists and Israeli Defence Forces in the open seas. It took only short time for journalists to realize that Turkey may well be a different country now – a country which is run by Islamists, and which is attempting to assert its position in the Middle East. And, as one would guess, the best way for a Moslem country to show its leadership is by vicious anti-semitic and anti-Israeli activity. Many people would like to know – can the country named after a legendary Thanksgiving dish be saved from descent into the jihadist abyss?
Read the rest here:
http://hyphenatedamericans.blogspot.com/2010/06/inquiring-minds-demand-to-know-is.html
The MOST incisive rendering of historical facts, (SANS revisionism)deconstruction of (im)moral relativism, and otherwose cogent thought processes.
FEW in the US are on par with Dr Hanson when it comes to historical/political commentary. Bravo!!
“peace activists”–some Turkish idiot
Spare me.
When has the Free Gaza Movement (the organizers of the blockade runners) ever advocated peace?
Never.
What they advocate is the lifting of the blockade of Gaza and they further demand that Israel abandon all the territory taken in the June 1967 military campaign (so that their Pal terrorist friends will have more territory from which they can continue the neverending war to destroy the state of Israel).
Two of FGM’s directors are founding members of the ISM (Huwaida Arraf and Adam Shapiro) which makes no bones about their support for Pal terrorists. Part of their mission statement: “As enshrined in international law and UN resolutions , we recognize the Palestinian right to resist Israeli violence and occupation via legitimate armed struggle…”. IOW, ISM and FGM support the Pal terror campaign against Israel…period.
Anyone who calls the FGM or their Muslim associates “peace activists” is a bald-faced liar.
Maybe that drooling idiot Helen Thomas has a point. Her declaration reminded me of Dr. Hanson’s recent blog on encouraging educated immigration, or “Brain Gain.”
Israel is a successful country, a thriving high-tech economy, utterly surrounded by murderous failures. Arabs may well have invented algebra, but those Arabs – and their genes – left the region long ago.
So, let’s evacuate Israel. Make them all citizens of the United States. Leave the tiny land mass behind, let the “Palestinians” sit on it and starve. We’ll welcome the human capital of Israel, the professors, the scientists, the bankers, the kick-ass soldiers.
Yeah, we’ll also get Israeli gangsters and the dummies who live on welfare so they can pray all day. But over all, I think our gains will be huge. It’s not a humanitarian effort, it’s a pimp move that will expand the United States’ greatness. King Bolesław III knew this when he gave refuge to the Jews in Poland. Genesis tells us God will bless those who bless the Jews and curse those who curse them. Recent history certainly bares this out.
So let’s do this thing. Let’s get it done. Who’s with me..?
Not a bad idea at all #49! Read David Brooks column of Jan 11, 2010 entitled “The Tel Aviv Cluster”. He seems to be saying there are a lot of very bright people who already have one foot on American soil in places like Palo Alto anyway. Bring them all. Give them a foreclosed house. Better that than destroy the planet over a small patch of dirt surrounded by hostile people who will never accept their existence. We can use these bright industrious people to save this country. Let the middle east drown in its oil.
No not Poland or Germany, let them come here.
If the Jews lose and get kicked out of Israel by Helen Thomas types, I say give the Jews Massachusetts, Rhode Island and Connecticut; no one is doing anything with those states anyway.Or maybe Mexico (there won’t be any Mexicans there soon anyway, the way they’re all pouring across the border).
Let the muslim countries fight it out between themselves and their beloved terrorist factions. Sure, millions will die but they won’t be Americans.
I concur with that. We have a lot of land that has been abandonned by people forced out by Illegal Immigrant Gangs. Giving a piece the size of Israel to the Israeli’s would solve a lot of problems: the Desert would bloom, and, I doubt any Mexican Cartelli’s would dare send their Goon Squads onto Israeli land.
This would sure cure a lot of problems.
Turks should go back to Central Asia.
We take note of what you say Mr. Hanson. As for myself I strongly support the jewish cause around thwe world. But I do not support Israeli actions like the one off the Gaza coast. Israelis have to understand that they are putting their friends around the world in a very awkard position with their clumsy actions.
As for Trukey growing into regional Muslim power: yes, this is true. And that means that, after all, a day might come that Israel will totally depend on Greece to receive military aid. So forget about the chronic greek leftist tendencies (true, indeed) and start thinking of a way to save our derelict country, for if we sink, Israel might sink with us..
I hope you had a good feast day of All the Greek saints.
Well, just 23 days of fasting until the feast day of Peter
& Paul. As for the week old story of the one ship of the flotilla that fought Israelis, when all the other ships diverted to Ashdod, all that can be done is point out those who don’t want peace masquerading as peaceniks. They are as peaceful as feta cheese is Italian, or that Salonika is in the Peleponnesian peninsula.
I would rather put the world into an awkward position, than, as a nation, be buried in one.
I can understand your feelings about the world helping Greece handle its problems, but, neither America, or, from what I can see, there are few places in the world, at this moment, that are in a financial position to render aid. The tragedy is that Greece descended to this position as a result of the most fabulous Olympics in history.
Interesting that Helen Thomas apparently thinks all Israeli Jews came from Germany and Poland… As a supposedly intelligent and well-informed person of Lebanese ancestry, she should know about the Mizrahim and Sephardim… But no, that would get in the way of her blatant bigotry.
But here’s the question that is really bothering me. Why is this sort of antisemitic crap creeping into the mainstream of America? Any possibility that Obama’s “leadership” makes the bigots think it’s safe to come out from under their rocks?
It’s not Obama’s “leadership” that brought the bigots out from under their rocks . . . it was his election.
Hail Rush. Go Sarah!
For once you do have a point.
Obama has never showed any signs of leadership.
On the other hand the example he has set is that of a bully with no moral compass.
Obama makes bigots think it’s safe to come out from under their rocks, you ask? BINGO! And when they come out, he hires them.
“Toss V. D. H. Blimp in jail for violation of the Logan Act [*] and throw away the key,” he suggested with impeccable moderation and proportionality.
Healthy days.
____
[*] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan_Act
‘Principal’ Levine,
Your using a Max Blumenthal story for ‘validity’ of the IDF ‘doctoring the audio exchanges with the 1st flotilla’?
You Sir, are the individual with no critical thinking skills.
To believe such B S, and then go on the prowl and insult others with this ‘evidence’.. hahahahaha
I hope your handle/username is just that. For if you are an educator/ disciplinarian in any regard, I weep for the future (‘thank you’ Ferris Bueller).
Well, VB, an unorthodox proposition, but not one without its attractions. However, I’m not sure the Israelis, after having lived in their pleasant climate, would jump at the chance to move into the winter wonderland of Sweden. That leaves Greece. Do you suppose a reasonably priced purchase could be arranged? Greece might be had for at fire sale costs about now. But my real question is where can we send Helen Thomas?
Somebody sent me this today:
Anybody remember Eric Hoffer?
He was a non-Jewish longshoreman turned journalist turned American social philosopher. Hoffer was born in 1902 and died in 1983, after writing nine books and winning the Presidential Medal of Freedom.
His first book, The True Believer, published in 1951, was widely recognized as a classic. Hoffer became one of the most influential American philosophers and free thinkers of the 20th Century. His books are still widely read and quoted today. Acclaimed for his thoughts on mass movements and fanaticism, Hoffer was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom in 1983. Here is one of Eric’s columns from 1968 — 42 years ago! Some things never change.
From the Los Angeles Times May 26,1968:
The Jews are a peculiar people: things permitted to other nations are forbidden to the Jews.
Other nations drive out thousands, even millions of people and there is no refugee problem. Russia did it, Poland and Czechoslovakia did it.
Turkey threw out a million Greeks and Algeria a million Frenchman.
Indonesia threw out heaven knows how many Chinese and no one says a word about refugees. But in the case of Israel , the displaced Arabs have become eternal refugees.
Everyone insists that Israel must take back every single one.
Arnold Toynbee calls the displacement of the Arabs an atrocity greater than any committed by the Nazis.
Other nations when victorious on the battlefield dictate peace terms. But when Israel is victorious, it must sue for peace.
Everyone expects the Jews to be the only real Christians in this world.
Other nations, when they are defeated, survive and recover but should Israel be defeated it would be destroyed.
Had Nasser triumphed last June [1967], he would have wiped Israel off the map, and no one would have lifted a finger to save the Jews.
No commitment to the Jews by any government, including our own, is worth the paper it is written on.
There is a cry of outrage all over the world when people die in Vietnam or when two Blacks are executed in Rhodesia .
But, when Hitler slaughtered Jews no one demonstrated against him.
The Swedes, who were ready to break off diplomatic relations with America because of what we did in Vietnam , did not let out a peep when Hitler was slaughtering Jews.
They sent Hitler choice iron ore, and ball bearings, and serviced his troops in Norway .
The Jews are alone in the world.
If Israel survives, it will be solely because of Jewish efforts. And Jewish resources.
Yet at this moment, Israel is our only reliable and unconditional ally.
We can rely more on Israel than Israel can rely on us. And one has only to imagine what would have happened last summer [1967] had the Arabs and their Russian backers won the war, to realize how vital the survival of Israel is to America and the West in general.
I have a premonition that will not leave me; as it goes with Israel so will it go with all of us.
Should Israel perish, the Holocaust will be upon us all.
Many thanks for reminding us of Eric Hoffer’s prescience concerning Israel. The campaign now being waged against that nation has attracted a huge numbers of the “can-be converted-but-not-convinced” types that Hoffer described in “The True Believer.” Increasingly the Western left is throwing in it’s lot with the most retrograde elements of trans-Arab nationalism based almost entirely on bogus Saudi-financed prapoganda and an increasingly fashionable academic anti-semitism. Given the “policies” of the present White House the enemies of Israel have concluded that the time to strike is now. The use of so-called humanitarian relief ships to break the blockade of Hamas is just the first media-friendly step.
Thank you, Mr. Hanson, for this piece. I read your column each day and it certainly helps me enormously when I try to modify the cycloptic mindset of the media here in Ireland – a mindset which is unfortunately passed on to far too many unthinking souls. I simply fail to understand how most of the mainstream media can assume to pontificate on the flotilla escapade and not include the FACTS about the IHH (aboard whose sponsored ship was the only violence in the flotilla), the fact that “Challenger 1″ was not carrying ANY cargo (“The Aid Ship With No Aid” = “The Pub With No Beer”), a FACT admitted to by the First Mate on board her, Shane Dillon, also not include the FACTS portrayed by the video of the Israeli soldiers being attacked before they had to defend themselves. If one is being attacked by a gang of crazies with knives, hammers, chains and iron bars, human nature dictates that if one has a gun one uses it – and fast. Before I sign off, I wish to say here that it is a source of great embarrassment to me that the “Rachel Corrie” ship bears an Irish flag. Éamonn, Dublin, Ireland.
Christie/Hanson 2012
Since 1000 B.C. Israel has been the home of the Jews, who were viciously extirpated by the Assyrians, Babylonians, Romans, and Arabs, and now that they have returned they are called the bad guys. Ironically they would still be good guys if they viciously extirpated all of the others from Israel now, from the Nile to the Euphrates, but since they’re way outnumbered and surrounded, they are doing well to hang onto the little territory they have.
Scope Jerusalem’s history with the Historyscoper to see why history awards it and environs to the Jews:
http://historyscoper.com/tlwjerusalem.html
Good idea Mr Bear:
I imagine a border between Germany and a new Israel might be a little bit tense also. But if anyone should pay a price for the shoa I never understood why it would not be Europe and not uneducated idiots in sheets in some desert no one really wants anyhow.
Turkey was a real big help when we invaded Iraq
Thank you Banjo for bringing the brilliant Eric Hoffer and his insight into the discussion. He is the embodiment of the idea that you don’t need a formal education to be learned and a teacher. I am forever enriched by having read his books. I think Helen Thomas is somewhat of an anomaly as I have a number of friends, acquaintances and clients who are either of Lebanese descent or are current citizens of Lebanon. All are Christian and none have an animus against Jews (which would include me) or Israel. Google my friend Brigitte Gabriel, born to a Carmelite Christian family from southern Lebanon, and you will get a totally different perspective.
Until the Turks are willing to own up to the Armenian genocide, they really need to drink a big ol’ cup of STFU instead of yapping about anyone else.
Why is the USA harboring the man reponsible for turning TURKEY back to an ISLAMIC state? Why is he allowed to run a secret military camp in PA from whihc her orchestrates his minions in Turkey?
Look up Faitullah GULEN. The man who is financug and re-educating a generation of Turkish to be JIHADS. A man who has Erdogan in his pocket and helped enable the emasculation of the seuclar military- the only hedge against ISLAMIZATION?
Why do EU and USA continue the charade that Turkey is secular or moderate- it has not been since Erdogan’s election?
By our own policy we should be attacking ourselves. Jail Fuller who vouched for him.
or at least crying for Turkey to be sanctioned for their act of WAR.
Truth is irrelevant, only the LIE lives
Perhaps Israel could apologize to Turkey right after Turkey apologizes to a couple of million Armenians.
44. bill Pity Helen Thomas. Who shot this video? Looks kinda like the old girl was set up with a button hole camera. Even a senescent old timer like her would know better to drop that kind of statement in public. A real gotcha moment providing great fodder for Drudge, Savage and even Ari Fleischer. Of course these folks have no bias. No doubt her comments were hurtful to those who have suffered but better to address the message than call for her head.
No Bill, we need to directly address people like Helen Thomas in this country. You make it sound like Helen’s comment doesn’t really mean anythiong becasue she was set up – your so un biased – arn’t you Billy boy.
Levavi, you might apologise to me too. That was a disgraceful comment about Brits.
FETEKE the path to vicory.
Turkish human rights : human rights
Turkish Star Wars : Star Wars
@ ManekiNeko
You must have a superb insight into the Hungarian mindset: the Antisemitism have reached epidemic proportion in that Eastern European country.
Times Online:
Anti-Semitism stirs as Hungary goes to polls
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article7094323.ece
Here is the cake for you:
On the anniversary of the Trianon treaty – on the 4th. of June – in which Hungary lost 2/3 of her historical territory, 500 Hungarian protested in front of the Trianon castle at Versailles, Fance, clamoring for the return of those detached parts.
http://fr.news.yahoo.com/78/20100604/twl-l-extrme-droite-hongroise-en-colre-v-5231d91.html
Hungarians are quarrelsome people, they hate everybody: the Jews, the Slovak, the Romanians, Gypsies, the French, Americans…they live in a delusion of grandeur; – Clemenceau properly trimmed them down to the right size.
So “Hungary lost 2/3 of her historical territory” and 500 Hungarians protested against it. Only 500? How many people would protest in case Texas would be returned to Mexico? Remember when you French had to return the North African countries? Algeria, for example? “Hungarians are quarrelsome people, they hate everybody..” How do you know? We have been very often in Hungary(even in times of communism)and people have always been very friendly. “..they live in a delusion of grandeur”? I never noticed that. Lost grandeur is more a problem of the French. And the French never lost anything that really belonged to them. By the way, some of our friends own houses in Hungary(old farm houses). They never had problem with the Hungarian people. It is true that Hungary has a problem with the extreme right. So do most countries in the East.Hungary has the opportunity for a change.
YES they should say sorry then pack up and leave for the north pole! they annexed a coastal country they can all swim they’ll be fine when it all melts.
The Armenians aren’t waiting for an apology, they’re dead. I have no dog in that fight, nor this one, but I’m tired of the demand for apologies. Who is sorry for what? The Israelis defended their country and are not sorry for anything. The Palestinians are only sorry they didn’t kill all the Israeli soldiers and run the blockade.
I’m sorry the Israelis didn’t sink the ships.
Can you please explain what means “post-modern” anti-Semitism?
Post means after, prae means before, but anti-Semitism is perennial, there was no non-anti-Semitic era before, and there will be none after.
Anti-Semitism is in the genes of the “enlightened” society, see the two icons of enlightenment, Voltaire and Kant (the Jews are the vampyres of our society).
I used to have some doubts about Israel and it’s treatment of the Palestinians until 9/11. All I need to know was apparent that day. Those that stood in the street and cheered are our enemies and those that marched to our Embassy with candles are our friends. Maybe it is time we wake up and like the ‘peaceful flotilla’ was reminding us ‘remember 9/11′.
” Should Jews apologize to Turkey or go back to Poland and Germany?” Somehow questions like that are very familiar to me. There is the “either…or ” aspect. In the 80s we shouted “better red than dead”. No alternative. On the other side, the Poles wanted to be ” neither red nor dead”. Another perspective to the same danger. Perhaps Israel has more enemies than friends. So does/did Germany. But our slogan ” viele Feinde, viel Ehr” is not very useful in foreign affairs. Meanwhile Germany tried and still tries to see the world with other eyes. To apologize is a very hard task, but the alternative is even harder.
NOT A PENNY NOT 1 GI TO DEFEND GREECE OR ANY OTHER TERMINALLY CORRUPT EUROTRASH NATION. IF THE TURKS WANT GREECE;LET THEM HAVE IT!
Another indicator of Turkey re-orienting its policy towards the support of Islamic thuggery, imperialism and the concomitant genocidal mindset:
Around March 2009 the Sudanese president Omar al-Basheer was indicted by the International Criminal Court (ICC) on account of the policies of ethnic cleansing and genocide that he had initiated against the non-Arab populations of Darfur.
Circa two, three months later Turkey, which of late pursues a very active Africa policy (trying to there emulate China, albeit on a smaller scale), held a Turkey-Africa summit in Istanbul (or was it Ankara?). In defiance of the ICC indictment al-Basheer was not only welcomed to that summit, never having to fear the arrest which normally Turkey would have been required to carry out, but virtually lionized as a great and defiant Islamic hero. That is Erdogan’s Turkey — a Turkey coming into its own again.
As to the Israelis relocating to Germany and Poland, in addition to what other commentators have already pointed out I would like to call attention to the fact that Zionism is no reaction to the holocaust. While organized Jewish immigration into Israel certainly was reinforced by the latter, Theodor Herzl’s idea of founding a Jewish state in the Holy Land, and the efforts made to put this idea into practice, predate the shoah by more than one generation.
Helen Thomas’ visage always reminded me of a character in the old movie version of the Wizard of Oz. Someone finally threw water on the old hag and she melted. Too bad her ideas aren’t as easy to dispel.
Why did you not publish the comment I left yesterday? First it spent endless time being checked, and then it disappeared altogether — even though it did not contain any profanities, insults, whatever.
I had pointed out that (a) Turkey last year made a point of hosting Sudanese president Omar Hasan al-Basheer after his indictment by the International Criminal Court, (b) that Zionism / Jewish migration back to Palestine is NOT a reaction to the holocaust, but that the idea (theodor Herzl) and the practice antedate the Shoah by at least one generation. This constitutes another reason, in addition to those mentioned by a number of other commenters, why the “idea” of a Jewish exodus to Germany and Poland makes so sense.
Someone may have mentioned it already, but Turkey has had a blockade of Armenia in place for at least 15 years because of the conflict in Nagorno-Karabakh. That, of course, is a land blockade involving a closed border, so perhaps there is a profound moral difference between it and Israel’s blockade of Gaza.
As for Greece’s security, why do you think the Greeks have been making up to Russia like a schoolgirl with a crush for the last few years? NATO’s looking pretty impotent these days from anywhere south and east of Vienna. Russia, on the other hand, has been building up a relationship with Turkey, Syria, and Iran — a relationship centered on arms and power. Putin’s Russia is positioning herself to be the go-to great power for these nations’ regional complaints against each other: the “fixer” they call for help with cross-border recalcitrance. The longer Obama is in office, the more leeway all these nations at the world’s great crossroads will have to realign and upend the last 60 years of security assumptions.
Yes, the Jews should apologize to everybody. Here they still are, after all these centuries, after all their ancient enemies are long gone. What chutzpah! Roman General Titus would not be amused.
I guess it’s a good thing I’m not the Israeli Prime Minister. Only two words come to mind: ‘Torpedo los!’
Israel should apologize????Turkey should first apologize for it’s genocides against Croats,Serbs and Armenians.
Jania Dawn Cociella, in my view, a major conference in DC on
‘The MSM Vis-a-Vis Israel’ with Dr.Hanson, Col Richard Kemp and former President of Spain Jose-Maria Aznar(?)- who has formed a group called Friends of Israel Initiative – and yourself as speakers is timely. I have read many of your comments on the Tikkun Olam site and you have diplayed a comprehensive knowledge of the ME and an excellent ability to rebut anti-Israel bias.
if any one should apologise it should be Turkey to Israel.
The Mavi-Marmara was full of Jew-hating Islamo-fascists swho thought they could just break the Israeli-Embargo on ships entering Gaza, for the simple reason is that in their twisted-minds the ‘State of Israel’is illegal, therefore the embargo as far as they were concerned was illegal.
Under the last Turkish administraton these trouble-makers would have been tried possibly in a Turkish military court, when and if and when found guilty given a long prison for their crime of committing terrorism against a friendly country.
However under the current pro-Islamic government headed by the Islamist Jew-hating premiership of Recep Tayyip Erdogan the opposite happened, condemnation
of Israel, interfering in israeli politics by describing the embargo illegal, whilst the UN declared it legal. Prime-minister Erdogan has turned directions towards the east, he has welcomed the other Jew-hating fiend President Ahmadinejad of Iran as a friend of Turkey, who has stated on many occasions that Israel is a tumour in the M.E. therefore must be destroyed.
Turkey should therefore now be kicked out of NATO, however that won’t happen for the forseeable future under the current American Democrat Administration headed by Barack Obama.