Rolling Stone, Michael Hastings, and the McChrystalites—Sort of Deserve Each Other
The Washington Post publishes a long list of fact check requests sent to Gen. McChrystal before the Michael Hastings’ interview occurred. One could draw some legitimate inferences from them, in no particular order of importance:
1) Rolling Stone did not ask for confirmation of the most damaging slurs against superiors like Obama, Biden, Holbrooke, etc., which might suggest (you think?) that all along they were going to publish a very different narrative than the one implied by their rather tame queries for confirmation.
2) The reporter, Michael Hastings, has recently offered, postfacto, a few interviews, perhaps summed up by his suggestions that he is a very principled reporter who usually does not do “puff pieces” in order to gain access — unlike lesser others to whom he mock apologizes in advance should his more honest hard-hitting exposes have now endangered their genres. Not quite. It is clear that Hastings ingratiated himself to McChrystal’s staff as a kindred unconventional spirit — and for some bizarre reason, the latter actually believed that this newfound embedded pal with whom they joshed around with was going to write a sort of inside encomium on their hipster commander, hence their strange, almost slavish cooperation. If anything, I find the obsequious sort of reporter who gains intimate access with the implicit understanding that he will be largely complimentary more intellectually honest than a disingenuous Hastings, who burrows in under false impressions, and masquerades his ego-driven desire for fame and status by a sort of pseudo-”sh-t happens” bohemianism. It is just a question of how one chooses to sell his soul — or as my grandfather used to say about fruit packers (and who could have advised McChrystal), “it’s always better dealing with an upfront crook.”
3) There are a lot of errors in Hastings’ draft that are corrected by McChrystal’s staff — and these are all, except in one instance, the non-controversial ones, suggesting (you think?) Rolling Stone did not want the staff to know of the disaster that was coming. Note again how sneaky Rolling Stone was — asking for matter-of-fact confirmations of mostly mundane things that are intended to cement the picture of McChrystal as a gifted warrior of the sort that might even appeal to Rolling Stone‘s audience: a misunderstood Obamian that likes martial arts and wars with stuffy DC superiors. (I imagine that the staff wanted Hastings to know — off the record rather than to publish — that McChrystal voted for Obama as a sort of added incentive to deify their boss.)
4) So in just one case, Rolling Stone tips its hand by asking for confirmation of the fact that McChrystal voted for Obama; they are told explicitly by the staff that such information is inappropriate for publication (but apparently not for background information), and why — and so asked that it not be printed, suggesting their growing worry (you think?) that a mildly controversial fact would be published (which turned out to be tame in comparison to what they did not dream was about to be unleashed). Again, note the stupidity: a military officer is at the 11th hour asking Rolling Stone not to publish an embarrassing fact about Gen. McChrystal’s political affiliation — and they seem to assume that good old Rolling Stone would not! (Sort of like asking the Taliban not to bury too many IEDs.)







I think David Brooks summed things up quite well today. This RS piece is a poor excuse for journalism. Haven’t we had enough of this “gotcha” stuff whether it be this or a narcissistic Rabbi taking down Helen Thomas for his 15 minutes of fame? It seems there is an open mic, camera and a 2 bit tabloid journalist around every corner these days just waiting to pounce on someone in a moment of candor we ALL engage in from time to time. VP Biden himself was roundly admonished for getting caught using a profane expression so common it isn’t even noteworthy. There have been plenty of other examples recently.
I was appalled at Charlie Rose’s discussion with the RS Editor about the McChrystal takedown. His final remark to Eric Bates was to congratulate him! Congratulate him for what??? Taking down a highly regarded soldier who has served us all so well nearly as long as this magazine has been in existence? We learned nothing by this. By all means give us honest in depth reporting on Afghanistan but we don’t need this petty 2nd grade tattle tale crap. The good news is that RS has shown its colors, not likely they will ever get access like this again. Obama has been lauded and criticized for being too deliberative and slow to make a decision. I wish he would have ruminated over this a bit longer. Too bad it couldn’t have been handled differently.
As usual Brooks is wrong. Do you want someone in charge of the mission in Afghanistan who is stupid enough to have voted for Obama and stupid enough to have trusted Rolling Stone? It’s hard to say which of those two stupids is more stupid.
A General has now put in charge who will demand what he needs and Obama doesn’t dare say no. Rolling Stone has done the nation a great service.
Exactly what I was thinking. Good Lord, how in the world was a supposedly smart guy like McChrystal so duped? When I read that he voted for Obama, I was disbelieving. No snake-eater worth his salt is going to actually admit to such a thing. But then, seeing how idiotic he was in letting this “journalist” into his inner sanctum…well, it all makes sense now.
Well if RS has done a great service, then so too has Mc-whats his name. At least he had the courage to start the ball rolling stone.. so’s to speak.
You can take the stupidity to the next level.. a Poseur in Chief who stupidly appointed Mc-Whats his name because of stupid leftist ..ah stupidity.
We still get to the fact that Mc-whats his name outed the stupid Poseur in Chief and now the one thing Dubya got right is placed in charge. Remember stupid O’blame-a called Patreaus stupdi/incompetent not long ago now the TOTUS appoints him….
… In a word.. Dubya vindicated.
Stupid.
Our troops will be better off with Petraeus. The press needs to stay away from our troops.
Funny how it went from
“General Betray-us”.. TO
…. General “oh my god what a wonderful choice!!”
The ‘narcissistic rabbi’ said that he had liked Thomas, and had only interviewed her in the course of talking to a bunch of people. Since he let her tell the truth about herself in regard to her effort to dictate Jewish history, he’s apparently received tens of thousands of pieces of nasty mail, including many death threats.
And you?
“Too bad it couldn’t have been handled differently.”, Oh my golly, Bill, the thing might have been handled differently, . . . except that, perhaps, the General made a correct assessment of the IQ of those who were against him, the possible option open to them, and what they might do? And, isn’t that kind of personal knowledge and estimation the largest part of what education from the General’s War College is all about?
Your argument (with some others below) supposes that, like the President (and so very many other of our elected folks), in ruling over a partly educated populace, the General merely sniffs around waiting for possible beneficial photo-ops.
But, a General is always agressive—if it looks like he is waiting, it’s because he wants the opposing party to think he’s indecisive.
For this particular General—who runs eight miles each morning, and has been known still, to go out of a night for seek and destroy missions—can you really think that—when at the end of the day, and relaxing over a beer—that characteristic aggression just disappears, that it’s merely an act, that he manages the various details of things attendant to his command in the casual and variable and sometimes mendacious approach of a “C” average screen-reader, who slurs words, drops consonants, and occasionally fibs?
What if you were to find that, tomorrow, the General and his wife were in church, and he, appearing quite humble and pleased?
If our General, here, preferred to not end up as “the General who lost the war”, knowing the while, that, those who were in supervision were not above “playing politics”, would you suppose that, he might cast about for options?
For my part, quite unlike many of our “home boys”, the General does not appear as the type to make open mic mistakes—ever.
I kind of think for the scene which must have ocurred, rather, than that, any president should make a skillful general, any general is ever much more likely to be an able president, under the direction of various of his advisors, our own Marlboro Man was pumped up and sent in to “deal” with the General. With little experience beside pushing around community organizers, it must have been a confusing moment—hindermost, pressured from the scrambled bunch, there, and onward, constrained to engage with the aggressive spirit and keen mind of the General—but, most unskilled and unpracticed, the while.
While I’m not familiar with the military terms for the tactics which were brought to bear, the thing appears so plain as to say that, than that, some two-bit reporter has brought down a general, it appears rather, that, the General was the moving party in securing his own interests.
And while surely, all will agree, that, in matters of strategy, the IQ’s, nor the experience of hide-bound, hot-to-trot home-bodies are not additive, I do think that, in final analysis, for so simple an error as was made—as the male of the species is stronger—the General knew that, despite all intermediate posturing, he must perforce arrange to counter the personality of that woman who advises her President, . . . and that’s just what occurred.
RS has made it difficult for honest journalist to do their job.
“No one” will be trusted now. And perhaps that is good. The press has no place in a war zone.
“Honest journalist” – that train left the station many, many moons ago. While McChrystal and Rolling Stone served as a reminder of that, this weekend’s episode with Dave Weigel at the Washington Post puts the exclamation point on it.
This is a bit too relativistic for my taste. I know what side I’m on, and I believe that it is right. There was nothing wrong with “getting” Helen Thomas. “Getting” the general was “getting” the guy on my side. Rolling Stone is on the other side.
Sorry for my simplicity.
No excuse, Dr Hanson. In Texas, we tell folks like Gen McChystal a story that ends, “… You knew I was a snake when you picked me up.”
Lesson for everyone over six: The things you do wrong hurt you more than the things you do right help you.
Regards,
Bill Drissel
Grand Prairie, TX
Exactly right! We’re well rid of a top general, no matter how good a warrior, who lolls around at HQ trash-talking superiors with his staff and a hippie, and they of course with their staffs and so on down the line. Imagine Eisenhower or MacArthur doing the same?
Now get rid of his insane ROEs which are killing our kids — I believe they were instituted to control a force that had gone cowboy-yahoo like the Marines that murdered the tourists on the ski lift in Italy with their antics. We need to cut the good guy crap and discipline our soldiers — setting them about their job: killing, and lots of it.
And we need to get McChrystal on the talk shows and writing a book to expose the general staff and the politicians. Had he been a REAL hero, he’d have resigned his commission and gone public with everything, even risking jail, not crept around with journo-hippies
Maybe McCrystal wanted his own show on MSNBC.
Dear Mr. Hansen: Mencken said it well in his first MENCKEN CHRESTOMATHY:
“In any combat between a rogue and a fool the sympathy of mankind is always with the rogue.”
What’s dismaying about this is the naivete as you put it (I think it’s good old fashioned witlessness) of McC and his staff, the fools. A rogue freelancer writing for ROLLING STONE? What could they have possibly expected? Nor is the sneakiness of ROLLING STONE much matter. What did anyone expect they would do? Be honest? Good God.
In his biography of J. Edgar Hoover, Curtis Gentry quotes Jack Nelson of the Los Angeles TIMES. Nelson responded to Hoover’s attempt to smear reporters by whispering that they were drunks by saying, “You can’t ruin a newspaperman by branding him a drunk.”
Today you can’t ruin a journalist by calling her a liar. You need only look at the antics of that sordid hog David Weigel to see the truth of this. More, Weigel got his platform with the active connivance of the Washington POST, which held him up as a conservative, an assertion that is funnier than any of Jon Stewart’s obscenity laced gassings. The moral: never trust a journalist, particularly if you are on the Right or what can be perceived as the Right. This is what brought down McC. If he didn’t recognize this truth, I have doubts about his superior wisdom in fighting as well.
Sincerely yours,
Gregory Koster
Whether this episode is deliberate disinformation, or lamentable dereliction—less the statements than the compromise of operational security—will be borne out in subsequent events, particularly by what McChrystal does, and says, next.
Occam’s razor suggests no 4-star would frivolously muddle the end of his career with such a public and personalized disinformation gambit; yet, nor would a SOCOM commander offer up his staff as prey to a Rolling Stone propagandist.
Since we have been a captive audience to the neurotic narcissism of our historic first Islamic apostate president, it is easy to dismiss as the cause of such aberrant behavior of those in power as one and the same.
MacArthur, too, had a notorious ego, but duty, honor, country were his creed.
If the finest in our military are lost to this epidemic, then indeed it will take a generation, at least, to undo this dismal, decades-old cult of celebrity that is remaking American character.
“…a decade at least”?
Vietnam, Lyndon Johnson and MacNamara destroyed the US military and institutionalized its destruction. It’s been three generations already …
Charles Gordon:
Doctor Hanson once again has the important things right.
“But readers, you’ve already beat me to the moral of the story: God help us all when a four-star general really believes he can use Rolling Stone to help get a message out that might help us defeat the Taliban and help himself in the process.” God help us all.
That’s why we need to forget about sending another crooked politician to the White House in 2012. We need a real American like the good Doctor Hanson. Join me in a draft movement?
Rupert Murdoch, Rodger Ailes and Bill O’Reilly should not be allowed to appoint the next “conservative” presidential candidate in 2012.
True, VDH’s instincts are impeccable.
We have seen the good, the bad, and the ugly from that rock-bound Highland home of both worthy anonymous warriors and Benedict Arnold clones.
If we can’t outsmart our foreign enemies, or worse, are outsmarted by our domestic foes, then any wish for immortality would be to see our great nation endure its current collapse with equanimity then watch its renaissance with pride.
It’s not that I wouldn’t support a VDH candidacy but I thought he doesn’t consider himself a “conservative”?
Somewhere, hidden in the back of my mind I find this thought that the Chicago boys of Obama-Mao may have something to do with this reporter from Rolling Stone getting access to the former Afghan commander general. Kind of a soft “hit” might have been ordered, so that our dear political warriors, lawyers who fight with words, could declare soon that Al Qeada has been driven out of this country, Karzai has convinced them the time for reconciliation is at hand; therefore. America is to “bug out” sooner, rather than later…here here, victory…well kind of?
Our Dear Leader is the greatest commander in chief this country has ever had…just tell him to his face and watch those seductive eyes brighten up beyond belief!
As to Princeton Patreaus, he may find a ticker tape parade, or get shot out of the air via a Russian ground to air missile in the coming months: One thing (for me) is certain; he got demoted!
Let’s watch Michelle skip rope and tell all of us how bad our eating habits have been and that we must, immediately stop our destructive choices! God, I love this first communist family!
Quite possible, Rolling Stone has been “in the tank” for The Won for some time now. Two kindred spirits, RS is as anti-military as is the current POTUS.
Dr. Hanson you can read crap like this article from one end of the Internet to the other.
Now take off your bib, climb down off of the high chair and waddle away from all of the slobbering droids you joined in order to bash General McChrystal.
Who is he who is without the least bad judgement?
The distinguished warrior or the hand with a feeble pen..?
I’m voting for you, Judge Not.. as the one with the most bad judgment – the one with the feeble mind !
You also get the vote for the poorest manners in the tribe of commenters. This does nothing to elevate the discourse.
Keep repeating, JN, “There is no place like home. There is no place like home. There is no place like home”. Now click your heels together three times and you will be back in Hogan’s Heroes, dear sergeant.
Only a very few Army officers have courted the press: MacArthur, as Charles Gordon mentions, Patton, Armstrong Custer, and Teddy Roosevelt among them. Most are very happy to be viewed by reporters as “no color”, as General Walter Kreuger was described, and a few over the years have had “Pecos Bill” Shafter’s attitude toward Richard Harding Davis (“I don’t care what you are. Get out of my headquarters”).
What happened to McChrystal is why.
I think this whole thing smells very strange. There’s more here than we know.
Will, you are so right! How does one get to be a four star general in the US military and fall for a trap a private could see through? We are all being had by the Communists leading our country. This Kabuki theater comes straight out of our Politburo’s black ops. The purpose will soon be clear.
As we used to say in the Army: one “aw shit” wipes out at least 10 “thata boy”s
I have no sympathy with McChrystal – he and his staff demonstrated judgment so bad as to render them unfit for command.
There are two unanswered questions in the McChrystal debacle. First, what was RS’ motivation behind this story? Was it simply an “expose” or was there a more nefarious intent? Given RS’ counter-culture history, was this a cleverly disguised anti-war piece?
Another equally important question is whether McChrystal intentionally colluded with RS in order to help expedite his exit strategy? Did McChrystal realize that the bozo civilians running the war in Washington had so far tied his hands that he didn’t want to be the leader of another Vietnam like conflict?
No one seems to be talking…
On his radio show, Mark Levine observed that the Taliban and/or Al Quaida were probably trying to take out McChrystal with a suicide bomber, but now they don’t have to – Rolling Stone did it for them.
But who’s fault is it, really? I took courses in Public Relations when I was in college. The first rule we learned about the press was, “If you don’t want to see it in print, don’t say it.”
Rolling Stone and journalism are an interesting duo. While there has been some great writing about rock music and hilariously paranoid Hunter Thompson pieces and terrific O’Rourke/Grieder debates, the style one would expect does not really go hand in hand with the military. Unless we’re talking the Apocalypse Now/Platoon rock’n'roll military. The soundtrack for this debacle as brought to you buy Cameron Crowe ought to be …
Pinball Wizard – The Who
Dream Weaver – Gary Wright
Are you Experienced – Jimi Hendrix
Smoke On the Water – Deep Purple
I’m Looking Through You – The Beatles
Ballad of a Thin Man – Bob Dylan
Mohammad’s Radio – Warren Zevon
Sexie Sadie – The Beatles
The Silver Tongued Devil and I – Kris Kristofferson
Wipeout – The Surfaris
I Should Have Known Better – The Byrds
Hit The Road Jack – Ray Charles
Won’t Get Fooled Again – The Who
Who reads Rolling Stone? Druggies, Wannabee Rockstars, Perpetual
Adolescents, short memory span stoners, in short,…LOSERS. Didnt anyone on the Generals
staff know that? Rolling Stone isnt read, so much as
smirked over. All of its articles are the same. The same super hip reporter
with a wink and a whisper gives the “inside” story about the life of politician, rock star or actor. The treatment is always the same..dumb down
and degrade everything to the level of the Rolling Stone reader . Is the article
about Iraq?? Dont worry it wont be about Iraq, its history, the 30 years leading
up to war and invasion. There will be a photo of Rumsfeld shaking hands
with Saddam..and the smirking insinuation that ..”See!!..the adults are all corrupt..its all a joke…dont feel bad about your no-where life working
as a video store clerk..no one is any better than you!!”. Thats what sells Rolling Stone magazine to millions of video store clerks and rock concert goers. How could anyone not know that? How could they think they would get different treatment? VDH is right..the General, Obama, all got exactly what they deserved. Where it
gets unfair is that these same people vote..and the rest of us live with the consequences.
Thank you. My first reaction to hearing about this story was, ” Rolling Stone”!? He should have been canned just for that.
There are circles within circles here. It stands to reason that the military, who have been trashed by the Left for years, hold the Left and its leaders like Obama in utter contempt. The prevailing image Obama gives off is that he is extremely thin-skinned. Did anyone see an advantage to spreading some extremely negative formulations against Obama and Biden and their diplomatic entourage? It they were going to do it, who better to get the message out to the ignorant twenty year olds, who BO is now courting for the midterms, than Rolling Stone? The story, to a historian or lawyer, does not prove that McCrystal said anything to the reporter — all you can say is that he was grousing in the Officer’s Club with complaints that were entirely plausible, and who’s to say that’s unusual? The article was all hearsay, generated by the Staff. Obama acted true to form, and nothing he did made him look good, at least to those who understand the Military. McCrystal knew, if he designed the scheme alone or in concert, that he would take the hit. The plan, if it was one, is a little too cute and intricate. But if the objective was to get more relaxed rules of engagement, and to give the enemy the false appearance that the American Military and command structure, just about to cut and run, is in severe disarray, then the plan worked like a charm. If this was a real play, to let the Army run things their way, with Obama proving again he’s no more than a Soros puppet now converted to the use of a better hidden puppet master — well, I’m not sure any of that’s true, but it sure makes me feel better than the story that McCrystal is leading a bunch of real dopes, and now tarred with the same brush that his underlings weild. One thing that comforts me is that Hastings got all his real ammunition in the first 24 hours. If the Military Guys were playing him as their cat’s paw, then once the hook was baited and the trap laid, there was no need to feed him anything further. The only thing I don’t know, is how they were able to make sure that Petraes would be tapped to take McC’s place.
McChrystal needed to go. He was like Zippy-lite, a Social Worker, don’t kill the enemy, kiss their ass, Karzi drug-dealing lover type of General. His policies were killing our guys.
Michael Yon was publishing many of his failures and got himself tossed out of the country by McChrystal. His dispatches also pointed out the folly of the continuing to employ the Canadian affirmative action general, an incompetent that almost blew off his commander in a helicopter and was too busy sexually servicing one of his staff to do his job. His blog is worth following on Facebook for accurate unfiltered, unsanitized information.
None of this gives a pass to Holbrooke who is a Board Certified A’hole from day one or in fact any the the politically appointed State people who are all Zippy-lite types enforcing global pc from their clouded sigmoid view.
Yon said on Dennis Miller’s show last week that he had already emailed Gen. Petraeus and had received a reply and he’s going back in.
The dichotomy of McC is not reassuring. If indeed he is and was a bona-fide liberal, environmental nut, and actually banned Fox News from headquarters does not make the warrior image stick. I am sure the platoon level soldier had to have been less than motivated if this behavior had filtered down. His future actions will speak volumes.
Hastings wrote his story before he ever met McChrystal. The 30 “fact check” questions are worded in such a way that it obvious they are derived from rumors about McChrystal, not from personal observation by Hastings. Hastings article “Hack: Confessions of a Political Reporter” shows that he uses interviews not for fact finding but rather to give speculative fiction the appearance of authenticity.
The McChrystal Affair is an elegantly conceived, planned and executed operation designed to replace Petraeus in Centcom with some one who was anti-Israel and who accepted the notion of the Soviet Sphere of Influence.
Notice that Obama read the article, fired McChrystal and transferred Petraeus so quickly that opposition never had a chance to form. The article was read and the reaction taken before the magazine issue even reached the RS website, let alone the newsstands. This is the mark of a chess grandmaster.
Watch for changes. The US will no longer store weapons in Israel. Stalin’s statue will reappear in Georgia. Russia and Iraq will sign a pipeline deal. Predator flights will no longer be newsworthy.
In a few years we will read about how Obama regained control of his foreign policy.
If we can’t forgive warriors for their political missteps, we are gonna loose every war form now and until eternity. The words “warrior” and “political” don’t coexist in the same sentence. To demand this is an invitation to failure.
VDH, you are one of the good guys, so I’ll forgive you for now. But you have to read up more on this subject. Don’t ever forget, that you are a cookie eating civilian. It’s a choice. 1) Will we demand political savvy from warriors and let western civilization go down in flames or 2) will we accept their limitations, forgive their non military flaws and use their expertise where it counts: Fighting wars.
Did McChrystal himself have the intention of ‘using’ the RS to get out a message? Seems misguided and silly.
Why would the General’s vote for Obama be ‘embarrassing’? Is it against UCMJ to be a liberal in the military? Clearly the general is a liberal.. banning Fox News at HQ, banning fast food burgers, voting Obama.. I have nothing against liberals who honorably serve and fight to win, and with minor quibbles about ROE, the general did that with valor, I think. So why the attempt to prevent that fact from going public?
His staff are dopes, to be sure. This reporter must have chuckled himself to sleep every night he was there.
But I suspect the entire fiasco came about more through incompetence than a desire to subliminally message anyone on the part of the General.
Lesson learned for General “Betray Us”, right? :-)
Why would the General’s vote for Obama be ‘embarrassing’?
I thought it an interesting bit of information for the following reason.
If I remember correctly, Senator Obama voted for a law that would have ended all combat operations in Iraq on March 31, 2008 and required the withdrawal of US forces by August 31, 2008. Personally, I thought this plan had a high probability of not working out so well. If the US was abandoning Iraq with a “drop dead” date in September of 2008, how much Iraqi support would the US have in January of that year? By March wouldn’t all Iraqis have an incentive to join the terrorists — and perhaps turn it into a genuine, widespread grass roots insurgency? And as our troops withdraw down the two or three roads available, which Iraqis would warn our guys of the coming truck bomb attacks — since by that time they will all be “insurgents,” with a big incentive to help with the late hits. And if the truck bombs and IED’s (which can be planned and planted well in advance) kill civilians, who does the BBC blame for the death of the little Children? What are the chances that the “redeployment” would have the look and feel of a military rout?
So did the General consider this a good plan? If so, why?
Now you might say Senator Obama was only playing politics with the war when he promoted this plan. OK. On what date did he stop?
NOTE– I don’t mean to minimize the awful results of bad ROE, one of which has gotten a lot of press lately re: Ingram and the house that couldn’t be destroyed. I meant that ROE are complex and constantly changing, and seldom please everyone, ergo ‘minor quibbles’, a poor choice of words on my part.
#2 Mr. Drissel – “… You knew I was a snake when you picked me up.” That about sums up this situation, although I would add “Stupid is as stupid does.”
I agree with Mr. Gordon, this episode has not yet played out.
None of us know the primary players well enough to guess motivation.
The imagined motivation making the most sense to me, requires McChrystal’s presence in Washington DC instead of Afghanistan (like chess, board positioning is vital, but it is just one aspect of many in any campaign). Unfortunately, this move could not be made invisibly. How else in todays modern world, could one get relieved of command, while still being geographically connected to the center of power? To be trashed by Rolling Stone, while disgraceful and seemingly stupid, is not fatal to the point of losing a military commission. Rolling Stone does not have the gravitas to terminate a military carrier. A similar story from NYTimes of Wash Post would be a different matter; had they published such a story, he would have lost his military commission.
So, what scenario would be in play, requiring a military commission (even though disgraced) and a presence in Wash DC? Perhaps we will never know… but whatever the motivation, I believe the event has not yet played itself out.
Our troops will be better served with General Petraeus. RS did them a favor.
Hastings wrote his story before he ever met McChrystal. The 30 “fact check” questions are worded in such a way that it obvious they are derived from rumors about McChrystal, not from personal observation by Hastings. Hastings article “Hack: Confessions of a Political Reporter” shows that he uses interviews not for fact finding but rather to give speculative fiction the appearance of authenticity.
The McChrystal Affair is an elegantly conceived, planned and executed operation designed to aid Iranian control of the Middle East and to facilitate rebuilding the Soviet Empire. Its principal goal was to replace Petraeus in Centcom with some one who was anti-Israel and who accepted the notion of the Soviet Sphere of Influence.
Notice that Obama read the article, fired McChrystal and transferred Petraeus so quickly that opposition never had a chance to form. The article was read and the reaction taken before the magazine issue even reached the RS website, let alone the newsstands. This is the mark of a chess grandmaster.
Watch for changes. The US will no longer store weapons in Israel. Stalin’s statue will reappear in Georgia. Russia and Iraq will sign a pipeline deal. Predator flights will no longer be newsworthy.
In a few years we will read about how Obama regained control of his foreign policy and that Hastings is the new Suetonius.
Good to know there is one other person in the word who doesn’t accept lock stock and barrel the administration’s story about their little charade.
I’ve been leaning toward a takedown of Petraeus, self glorification of the Moron, and distraction from his other domestic embarrassments, but your idea about removing Petraeus to install a less pro-Israel general sounds very plausible as well.
What is dead certain, is that playlette has been planned for months and the treachery is from the marxists. It’s shocking to know that 100% of the conservative press and even VDH swallow the transparently ludicrous story that an American-hating reporter bamboozled the staff of a 4-star general by pretending to be one of the boys.
Your “sympathies” should be with the men and women under his leadership, who presumed their general would uphold his duty and his pledge to sustain honor and independence on their behalf. Instead, McQuitter proves himself little more than an egg salad commando too tired and scared to fulfill his obligations. He’d rather go rogue because that’s where the money is. “Screw loyalty. Screw your promises. Screw principle. And screw you, America.” Well, I hear he’s got a contract with TLC for a travelogue show . . . “Let’s Go, Sarasota!” . . . and another with Fox News . . . “The McConservative Group” . . . so in the eyes of Tea Bag Nation, he’s just doing his thing to support the free market economy, you know, like the crack dealers.
I know far better who are far lower than this clown. Good riddance.
He is far from being a conservative
..you guys can claim the honor of having McChrystalnut on your side….
Our troops are far far better off having him out of the region and in charge of anything they do.
This incident drapes no more glory on the masthead of RS than on the flags of the U.S. Army, though the libruls would disagree. However, what a lesson it was for Army officers, especially for general and field-grade officers. The pain felt will be worth the way journos will be viewed by officers for a generation to come. The enemy may be there in front of you and a slimebag with a press card may have a knife out behind you. Patton learned this lesson even in an era unlike today when the press actually wanted the U.S. to win.
Dr. H,
Terrific! Many great comments too. However, I’m like diametrically opposed to the overall sentiments.
I wish to extend my unending gratitude to Rolling Stone for their exposure and take down of McC & Co. I don’t care about their motivation for doing it, it was obviously necessary to rid the battleground of a commander that willing devalues the lives of US troops through ROEs he self-ingratiatingly imposes. Even after the regional sura councils told him repeatedly that “gentle doesn’t work hereabouts.”
Good riddance. Next.
I grew up as the daughter of an American army general. During one tour of duty he was the exec to the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs. When I was in high school, the JCS Chairman & other military brass spent many many evenings at our house and I always sat…quietly…,away from the men…as they discussed national affairs after dinner. (I knew I had a privileged opportunity to sit in on their discussions so I just listened, asking no questions to cause an interruption).
Never, not once, did I hear ANY of them critique the president or congress members. Not once. They knew their mission and ALL DISCUSSION involved methods for accomplishing that mission.
And, mind you, this must have been EXTREMELY DIFFICULT as this was during the early 60s, immediately following the Kennedy assassination and LBJ & McNamara were their unqualified “commanders”.
I’m afraid McChystal wasn’t naive…he was wrong. His job is not to establish policy. His job is to carry out policy. It’s that simple. Much as I dispise Obama and love our military, I have to say that McChystal was 100% wrong. It’s that simple…no excuses of naivete or reporter lack of integrity (duh) can change that simple fact.
It pains me to say, “One of our own” failed.
Humorous cartoon on the “brilliant” decision Obama made to select Petraeus to replace McChrystal at http://drawfortruth.wordpress.com/2010/06/26/tough-decision/
You should see who his other two possibly choices were!
You have to question the judgment of military personnel who voted for Obama. It was
no secret that he was anti- military. Also, you must be stupid to trust any reporter
from a leftist publication. Bad judgment and stupidity. Fatal.
And being pro-military is to send your men out to this?
http://www.wgbh.org/programs/programDetail.cfm?programid=1001
Does “pro-military” include funding the programs to take care of these guys once they are broken? There is a “we can solve things and fight tyranny through our military” mindset.
The men are tough and dedicated…until they are broken. Then who fixes them? The VA has been a poor cousin for so long, hasn’t it? Is it safe to say that such is the case because new weapons systems are more important than fixing broken guys? I know that new systems can save lives, but we are at the point, I think where more money has to go to take care of them and maybe less for a new F-22 or whatever. Would that be perceived as “anti-military?”
Whatever your take on this, I believe that the video (which I also posted on the atrocity tapes about to be released thread) is worth watching. After having seen it last night, frankly, I care more about the people involved…by a lot…than I do about the McChrystal thing.
I think you are missing what is going on here. McChrystal fell on his sword because he knew that Obama’s strategy was not going to work with the rules of engagement he had and the civilian nitwits (e.g. Biden) that were screwing things up.
This guy is too smart and seasoned to suck in for a Rolling Stone writer. He is not Russell Hammond. If McChrystal let the RS writer hear the off the cuff comments, he had a reason. And the reason was that if the Anointed One fired him (which he was pretty sure he would), the only person that made any sense for Obama to turn to was Patreaus — who would then have the pull (and the stones) to demand better rules of engagement and some changes in the civilian morons. Which is already happening.
This is a game of 3-D chess.
I wonder if former RS reporter David Lipsky’s experience at West Point, which ended up in the glowing book “Absolutely American”, had any influence on how McChrystal’s staff dealt with Hastings?
Bill Drissel’s aphorisms in #2 reminded me of a classic military saying:
“A thousand ‘attaboys’ will be wiped out by one ‘Oh sh**.’”
The central feature of MSM reportage today — and yes, Rolling Stone is MSM — is unaccountability. It looks awesome to the adolescent mind: you get to say whatever you want, and all the consequences fall on others.
But of course, you can’t fight wars that way. The central feature of the military is precisely accountability. The military can never adopt the Rolling Stone culture — not and remain an effective fighting organization.
Probably the saddest thing to me in this situation is that there were no real judgment calls to be made. The newest wet-behind-the-ears E-1 shavetail would have known not to say the things these senior officers said. For Charles Gordon at #4, I don’t think it’s pervasive throughout the force.
McChrystal made the mistake of thinking he was among friends. After all, he voted for Obama.
But with friends like Obama and Rolling Stone, you don’t need enemies.
I love the texasism above: “…you knew I was a snake when you picked me up….”
That fable is so old, and true, that it has versions
all over the planet. :)
‘God draws straight, using crooked lines.’
‘Nothing straight was ever built
from the crooked timber of humanity.’
And yet, somehow, progress occurs, just as
each individual biochemical reaction obeys
the law of increasing entropy, but biological
organisms as a whole exhibit decreasing entropy.
Judging them by their Works, rather than their words,
it would not surprise me if Petraeus, aided by his
Left-hand man McChrystal, triumph over their enemies
in the diplomatic and political arenas as well as
arriving at a least-bad conclusion to our military
misadventure in Afghanistan.
The mirror image of this story is the exile by McChrystal and his staff of Michael Yon who was really writing hard hitting true coverage of the Afghan war. Yon didn’t suck up to the PAOs, let alone McChrystal, so he was booted out and the snake of a Rolling Stone pseudo groupie was clutched to the breast of these naive, but also mendacious fools. They may know how to fight but they don’t who is the enemy.
These are the tales of novels, not news. Who is McC and how did he get to his role? Once you get past the Colonel filter, you get to be a 4-star by kissing-ass. McC is credited with far too much in Iraq, as it was the Marines who did all the heavy lifting. But, then, he is an Army general, and anyone in the military knows the Army generals take all the credit while the Marines do the work (Odierno is a prime example).
Take the “surge” as an example. The Army was widely deployed, but couldn’t get their collective thumbs out of their butts, then enter the Marines and the “surge” is a success. Where was McC all of this time? Chasing al Qaeda leadership? That’s what they say. But what did he accomplish? Not much, as I know my son’s Marine unit killed or captured more al Qaeda leaders than did McC.
So, McC goes to Afghanistan and complements “don’t ask, don’t tell” with “don’t shoot, don’t kill” and he’s a seriously flawed combat leader. Oh, sorry: he killed fast food and Fox News.
McC deserves whatever comes of his disgrace. He’s a progressive liberal who lacks combat command leadership skills and needs to get his ass kicked out the door fast enough that it doesn’t hit him on the way out. He tried leading an “Army of One” to being an “Army of None”!
Well said. If all true I’m afraid my lousy opinion of the post Johnson/MacNamara Army must stand another generation. You can always discount the candyass Air Force, McQueeg’s Navy and the narc-enabling CG, so we’re left with our understaffed and underfunded Marines whom the ROEs will slaughter with abandon — sounds like post Marcus Aurelius Rome to me.
clear mind, your comments are, or at least should be, an embarrassment to your son’s Marine unit. There is no question that the Marines are hard-hitting, well-trained and well lead. Or that the battles in Fallujah will be remembered in Marine Corps history as some of the most brutal. But to say that the Marines did “all the heavy lifting in Iraq” is to show complete ignorance and disdain for the job done by all the tens of thousands of soldiers, sailors and airmen who have fought in Iraq as well.
I know. I was there.
GEN MCChrystal was wrong, his staff is a bunch of morons incapable of detecting bullshit (a pre-eminent requirement for good staff work). But you need not deride all the soldiers, sailors and airmen in order to get your point across that he’s no Marine.
Hey, Diggs… there were those on the front lines and those providing logistics support… didn’t see any of those other services as endangered as the Marines… I’ve got stories that would teach you how to perform in combat where those other services relied on the Marines… try Odierno trying to tell the Marines how to run a convoy in heavy combat and almost getting his ass wiped out because he knew more than the Marines… Oh, he tried it many more times and then went back to his palace and wrote emails… he’s alive today because the Marines saved his ass…
so, before you throw platitudes about other services to the grinder, get some facts… my son was in Iraq on more then 20 Recon missions (my count, not his), plus 2 full deployments, including the first unit in on the Surge…and they had more issues with ego-driven Army generals than they had with the enemy…
Absolutely right. The true warrior – Col. Allen West has been shamefully treated and kicked out of miltary for acting exactly as the warrior should.
He is the man that can restore the morale and spirit of the US Armed Forces.
Why the tears for McChrystal; he is an Obama democrat in the first place. It is just a surprise that he turned on his messiah. When Harry Truman fired General Douglas McArthur sixty years ago; it ended Truman’s presidency and the Korean War that Harry wandered into is still offically an open war never having been ended. However, McArthur was a war hero and leader of the American Pacific forces that fought and defeated Japan; there is no comparison here; McChrystal is no MacArthur and Obama is no Harry Truman. Just another journalistic puff piece.
I confess having not followed the McChrystal events very much, but have some questions about what happened, that I wish someone would answer.
1. did the reporter interview the general himself, or only his staff?
2. did the general himself approve the interviews and/or their publication?
The general is in any case ultimately responsible for the misdeeds of his staff, but the nature and seriousness of his guilt seems to me to depend on the answers to these questions.
Can someone enlighten me about them?
(The only thing that remains in my memory about the Rolling Stone article was the statement attributed to the general that his appointment meeting with the president was a photo op rather than a substantive discussion of military matters. On further thought that seems to me to be exactly what most people assumed had happened. It is hard for me to imagine this president or any other one using such a meeting to advise the general on tactics or strategy. Thus this comment reflects badly on the general only if it was delivered in a nasty, contemptuous or resentful manner to the staff members who repeated it to the reporter, something that the reporter could not know. I imagine there were other comments that were truly vile, but I cannot even remember them.)
Obama is no more capable of “advising” any general on military matters than is a gnat able to advise an elephant on how to lift a tree.
A positive byproduct of this affair is the wider understanding that media has an agenda that trumps honesty, and that people should think twice before talking to the press.
If any further evidence were needed on this subject, the controversy about the Washington Post blogger provides all that is needed. Short story: newspaper hires someone to cover conservatives who hates and despises them.
I’m not going to slag off the reporter or Rolling Stone for taking the tack they did. Any student of military history would see a long, long chain of precedent for that one. If McC fancies himself a modern Sherman he’d have been better served by being a bit more Shermanesque toward the press.
I don’t buy the notion that a general never speaks his own mind, but he needs to be selective about who, when, and how. Far more selective than Gen McC and his bunch were.
If the general and his advisers showed this level of naivete with the press, one has to wonder how well-calibrated their BS detectors had been in dealing with Karzai and the rest of the Afghan leadership.
BS detectors? For Heaven’s sake, the man voted for Obama. How good could his BS detector be?
If General McChrystal did not have a hidden motive for allowing access to the Rolling Stone reporter, then his fall is an example of pure Darwinism. The general had to know that it is the nature of the military [especially mid and lower level personnel] to bitch about the stupidity of those in command; especially while operating under high pressure and at a high tempo. That does not mean they will not follow every order given to the best of their ability, just that they are venting. There is a different standard of manners and conduct the closer you get to actual combat. I suspect that most of the talkative staff members have been in combat in this war and view it through a different lens than the perfumed princes in DC. Given a NCA whose love and devotion to this country and Constitution is far from a confirmed piece of data; hell yes there are going to be a lot of politically incorrect things said. The normal function is to make sure that they do not go on the record.
Once stupidity is ruled out [if it is], there is the matter of what wheels within wheels are operating. On the General’s side, the circumstances of his appointment should have raised red flags about the assignment. The pressure from DC about the rules of engagement, and the concommitant additional American casualties [you note that the MSM has not been announcing KIA totals on every newscast since January 2009, but that the casualty rate has soared], plus the knowledge that Obama had declared defeat from the moment he put a hard deadline on when we will cut and run may have finally gotten to him.
If he just resigned, he would have been viewed as just running away after wasting the lives of Americans. If he was fired, the onus goes on Obama; especially since much of the military more than shares the view of McChrystal’s staff about the NCA’s competence.
From Obama’s point of view, firing McChrystal [and the jury is out as to whether RS was sent to set that up on purpose] a) lets him put the blame for the increased casualties on McChrystal, b) lets him work on the meme that he was failed by the military, and c) allows him to disrupt command relationships and staffs so as to ensure that there will not accidentally be a success in Afghanistan. There is the additional factor d) that by moving Petraeus to Afghanistan he eliminates him as a possible political factor in 2012, and might be able to have him tarred with the defeat. Petraeus has not indicated that he has any political ambitions, or even his own political inclinations. However, he has a ready made base on the Conservative side if he chooses to run against Obama, as the mirror-Obama. That is a major risk in any putative 2012 elections.
This kind of machiavellian maneuvering cannot be ruled out, because it perfectly matches Obama’s MO in all of his previous political match-ups. Not saying that it is so, just that these are factors that remain to be examined once a little time has passed and more evidence is in.
Subotai Bahadur
Not to derail the main thread, but I was taken by Dr Hanson’s Nemesis as sex poodle image. Remember in Goethe’s Faust that Mephistopheles first appears as a black poodle following the aged Faust homeward. I imagine this present incarnation humping a politician’s leg–perhaps there’s a cartoon there for the graphically gifted.
No question the “crazed sex poodle” story–if true–is one of the funnier political stories of the last decade. Perhaps Tipper should have put a warning label on Al.
McChrystal can’t keep his mouth shut?
Plenty more where HE came from.
Unfortunately.
McChrystal made the mistake of believing that the Obama-worshipping Rolling Stone magazine wouldn’t screw one of its own.
But is amusing to see an Obama voter screwed by the media and Dear Leader, himself.
McChrystal is a useful idiot who claimed he voted for Barack Obama. Anyone stupid enough to trust a far left rag like Rolling Stone probably deserves what he gets.
There are many things we now know about the General that bespeak poor judgment skills. The one that screams loudest is that he voted for Obama. Nothing after that should surprise.
COIN recognizes that wars are fought in 3 levels
– on the battlefield
– in the head of the commander. If the commander is misled he will lose. If he is killed or removed, he will lose. If he can be convinved he cannot win, he will flee or surrender.
– in the leadership of the commander’s government. If the government is kille, confused or simply believes it cannot win, then the war is lost.
COIN recognizes that the US ALWAYS wins on the battlefield. Therefore the Taliban fights to confuse the US government. The Viet Cong showed how to control the US government. The Taliban seeks control of US government decision-making by by controlling its sources of information about progress on the battlefield as reported by reporters.
Mc Chrystal was competing with the Taliban for control of Rolling Stone vis-a-vis Afghanistan. He lost. The Taliban blew him off the battle field.
Are we getting closer to a revolution when even the generals start speaking the truth ? What if ALL generals spoke the truth ? Never happen. You don’t get stars by speaking the truth. Placing the truth above go-along to get-along seems the better character. Obama and the media must start working overtime to rid us of those who dare speak out . Thus Charlie Rose congratulates the RS.
We need not fear Obama so much as those pathetics who voted him in.
A General says some disparaging things about Obummer and his merry band of fools; and he’s instantly replaced. The President of Mexico disparages the legal citizens of the United States and Obummer praises him. The Israelis try to stop terrorist weapons from coming into Gaza, and Obummer sends his sympathies to those who initiated the confrontation. What a wonderful Commander in Chief – Ugh! McChrystal got the better of this deal….!!
the national socialist democrats always lose wars to our enemies is there is one thing they are good at is snatching defeat from the jaws victroy.they did in ww1 even after pershing told the dems. if we do not march into berlin we would do it again in 20yrs.after ww2 the dems give their good pal stalin poland and eastern europe and all of our military secrets.the fbi told roosevelt that he had soviet spies in his administration so good old fdr promoted them to more sensitive positions.dems did the same in korea and viet nam and got the commie loving press to cover for them sort of like they do today.i only wish mcchrystal had kicked bongos’ ass .the only way to win is to kill ragheads by the train load,not only in iraq and afghanistan but in iran.
When Stanley Met Barry, Part Three
. . . Part Three presents an insider’s objective if speculative outline of what went down when Stanley had his sitdown with Barry. I can attest to its accuracy although, admittedly, it’s based on the testimony of that fly in the White House that has bedeviled the president and that finally came to rest on the Oval Office wall:
(By the way, “B” = the president, Barry, as he was once known, and “S” = General Stanley McChrystal, as he is still known.)
B: Welcome to the White House, General. Have a seat.
S: Thank you, Mr. President. I’m flattered to be here.
B: May I call you Stanley?
S: Well, no. unless I should address you as Barry.
B: Umm, then let’s stick with general and Mr. President.
S: Fine by me, sir. As you wish.
B: Care for a beer or anything?
S: No thanks, Mr. President. I don’t drink.
B: Oh, that’s right, I heard that. You also run 8 miles a day, eat one meal a day, and sleep 4 hours a night, right?
S: Yes, sir.
B: Don’t smoke either I’m sure. . .
(Read more at http://www.genelalor.com/blog1/?p=1758)
Try this on for size: McChrystal was going after Obama, Biden, et al.
The quality of civilian oversight by that batch of reprobates, scoundrels, scalawags, deformed souls, and similar ilk is lower than the Marianas trench at its lowest point.
The more the complex the pattern we see the underlying truths being that simple.
McChrystal has demonstrated his allegiance to his team members by taking the discipline upon himself.
His comment, which was off color toward the current administration, had to be taken out of context, and was a snide remark made in jest that could be misconstrued as criticism.
General McChrystal did not become a general displaying the immaturity quoted by this journalist.
Indeed; Once they discovered how much they had been sabotaged by this parasite journalist, McChrystal took it upon himself to protect his team.
This is a demonstration of what a TRUE, RESPONSIBLE, LEADER, will do for his subordinates.
I have two questions;
1. Can Obama ever demonstrate any leadership that could barely equate to this?
2. How much of The Rolling Stone has been sold to Al Jazeera?
I don’t believe the General was blindsided; I think he was the one playing RS for his own goals. Think of this: suppose he concluded that under the current ROE and idiotically amateurish strategy of this administration the war is unwinnable? He could resign, and be replaced by a lapdog (which might be what Obama thought he had all along).
Instead he sets off a landmine that shakes up not just the command structure but the bland assumptions of the cut-and-run Democrats. Now his objections are in the open, and even MoveOn has to pretend that “General Betray-us” is their first choice to run the war. Obama, Biden, and the rest of that gaggle of Chamberlain wannabes find themselves committed to the surge strategy, which they had attempted to kill stillborn.
Further, Obama now owns Afghanistan. Ignore it as much as he will, it’s now hung around his neck and he’s in it to the end. If he hasn’t the cojones of a George Bush to stick to his guns in the face of a hostile media (and he hasn’t), he still owns this war. Let’s see if the Dems have the stomach to engineer another US defeat, as much as they love Vietnam. Even they must sense they won’t get the same pass on this one.
If the result you describe was caused by a deliberate strategy, or the consequence of egregious errors (more likely, as more painful evidence appears), then the question is: what is the follow-up?
Was Petraeus involved? Will he detonate the equivalent of the Cold War nuclear exchange by provoking the Mohammedan Middle East to withdraw its oil from Western markets? Will congress declare war, in order for a war with the Taliban and their neighboring 7th-century votaries to be fought?
For our way of life to prevail, not after an election win or two, but to defeat the gathering threat of a modern Caliphate, Petraeus not only has to take on our historic first Islamic apostate president but the Posse Comitatus Act has also to be disregarded in that District which is not a state.
That ain’t gonna happen. Instead, the impending financial collapse will soon disrupt the world order. We pick up the pieces and rebuild from there.
The defeat in Vietnam happened on the Nixon Ford watch, though it was caused, by witholding air support for the South, that could have easily killed the invading NVA’s tanks (who had no airforce to speak of). We had a signed treaty (extracted after massive bombing) which treaty the invading tanks violated, so we would have been completely justified. But our aircraft carriers could not help, other than to extract people, because the Democratic Congress withheld the authority. A republican was in the Whitehouse so historically the dems got a pass. Now not so easy when the Dem is in the whitehouse.
McChrystal and his staff’s mistake was thinking that granting an interview to a reporter from a magazine that was considered part of ‘Team Obama’ meant everyone was on the same page — i.e. now that the president that they voted for was in office, everyone would be working towards the same goal.
What they (unbelievably) didn’t get was that a lot of Team Obama voted for him expecting Barack not only to order the closure of Gitmo on his first day at work, but also to announce the withdrawal of all U.S. troops from the War on Terror (though maybe not until Obama ordered Bush, Cheney and Rove arrested and indicted for treason). That’s the angle Hastings and Rolling Stone were coming from — they weren’t situationally against Bush’s War on Terror just because it was Bush; they’re against any U.S. military action in areas considered vital to U.S. security, no matter who the president is.
If they had given the interview to a more nakedly pro-Obama suck-up magazine like Newsweek, then the worst of the comments probably never would have made it to print. Allowing Rolling Stone into the inner circle without understanding the difference between a hyper-partisan Democrat and a leftist ideologue is what cost McChrystal and staff their jobs.
We have to accept the facts on the table, as told by the RS reporter, the MSM and the administration, all objective observors of harsh reality.
The supposedly savy warriors are revealed to be oafish dupes. No surprise that to the left which has always known of the utter unsophistication of testoasterone overloaded boys playing soldier. Now we know why the country can’t be entrusted to those fools.
The boy king is revealed to be a squinty eyed Truman character, reluctantly but speedily dispatching the quaking 4-star general. He pulls it off in a deft 48 hours. On second thought, Truman pales in comparison.
Yeh, that’s the ticket. What other explanation could there be?
My guess, it will be 15-20 years before another military commander speaks to the Press. Most everything will be an op-ed or statement by PAO or other public relations folks, with all access denied to the Press by the commanders.
Recognizing that the Press is the enemy of the military. Yes, McChrystal was “got” (chasing fame), but that simply functions to further isolate the military as the only competent and coherent, non-fantasy led institution in America. If all Joe Public gets is PAO op-eds and press releases, he’s isolated from the military in the way he wasn’t in WWII. Which had lots of censorship but also Ernie Pyle style reporting. No officer (or enlisted man) is going to let any press person anywhere near them. For a good long time. Information will outside of official releases will be on anecdotal, rumor-led, “a soldier told me” sort of thing.
If you believe Afghanistan will be the last conflict the US will EVER be involved in, that’s irrelevant. If there are more to come, it is a tragedy.
I know nothing about the commenters here and not much more about the writer of this post, although I generally admire his work. I can say, however, quite specifically and without doubt, that Stanley McChrystal has killed far more of this country’s enemies than all of you here put together times 100.
We can ridicule him for his poor judgment and shake our heads at the silliness of it all but we shouldn’t forget that over the last 10 years while we were all back here (most of us anyway) pontificating in blog comments about the state of the world, Stanley McChrystal was in a ditch somewhere getting shot at. Don’t think so? You could look it up.
If anyone’s earned the right to vote for any damn fool he wants, it’s Stanley McChrystal. The biggest mistake here was taking a warrior and thinking he could play politician equally as well. And we’ll just see how well David Petraeus does with that now that he’s serving Obama and not Bush.
I don’t believe for a second that the General was duped. He knew exactly what he said and that it would be reported. Whatever reason he had for doing so, I don’t know but I believe his first responsibility is to honorably serve according to the oath of office.
I am not at all sure this thing was a result of stupidity. I wonder if this was the only way McChrystal could get out of an impossible situation created by an impossible administration. If you want to talk ROE’s, then bear in mind they come from Washington, not theater.
Now Petraeus wants to relax them and you think he has that authority? I also find it hard to believe this general could be so foolish as to vote for Obamarrhoid and then turn on him publicly even though it was supposed to be private. Maybe it was disillusionment. Time will tell.
“But readers, you’ve already beat me to the moral of the story: God help us all when a four-star general really believes he can use Rolling Stone to help get a message out that might help us defeat the Taliban and help himself in the process.”
The dumbing down of America has been effeective indeed when a General is so stupid he does not know the Rolling Stone hates the Military and the truth.
The moral I took away, rather, was that we as American citizens should know much, much more about what is going on at the highest echelons of power. However, after this, I think we will get much, much less information. I was grateful to Rolling Stones for giving me a very human and real portrait of the scenario in Afghanistan, and disappointed with Obama, since sofar as I can tell, the civilian authorities with which McChrystal had a gripe were not terribly helpful in resolving the situation there. Would that we could have a fly on the wall or gonzo reporter within the White House.
Kudos to Rolling Stone and to the general for letting him in. He paid the price, but many Americans got some invaluable information about the war and their president.
Does this mean we can get our Burger Kings back now?
FOB Shank, Afghanistan
Then and now : there is no comparison in the calibre of generals :
SUPREME HEADQUARTERS ALLIED EXPEDITIONARY FORCE
Soldiers, Sailors and Airmen of the Allied Expeditionary Force!
You are about to embark upon the Great Crusade, toward which we have striven these many months. The eyes of the world are upon you. The hopes and prayers of liberty-loving people everywhere march with you. In company with our brave Allies and brothers-in-arms on other Fronts, you will bring about the destruction of the German war machine, the elimination of Nazi tyranny over the oppressed peoples of Europe, and security for ourselves in a free world.
Your task will not be an easy one. Your enemy is well trained, well equipped and battle-hardened. He will fight savagely.
But this is the year 1944 ! Much has happened since the Nazi triumphs of 1940-41. The United Nations have in-flicted upon the Germans great defeats, in open battle, man-to-man. Our air offensive has seriously reduced their strength in the air and their capacity to wage war on the ground. Our Home Fronts have given us an overwhelming superiority in weapons and munitions of war, and placed at our disposal great reserves of trained fighting men. The tide has turned ! The free men of the world are marching together to Victory !
I have full confidence in your courage, devotion to duty and skill in battle. We will accept nothing less than full Victory !
Good Luck ! And let us all beseech the blessing of Al¬mighty God upon this great and noble undertaking.
General Dwight Eisenhower
Then and now : there is no comparison in the calibre of Generals Eisenhower and McCrystal :
SUPREME HEADQUARTERS ALLIED EXPEDITIONARY FORCE
Soldiers, Sailors and Airmen of the Allied Expeditionary Force!
You are about to embark upon the Great Crusade, toward which we have striven these many months. The eyes of the world are upon you. The hopes and prayers of liberty-loving people everywhere march with you. In company with our brave Allies and brothers-in-arms on other Fronts, you will bring about the destruction of the German war machine, the elimination of Nazi tyranny over the oppressed peoples of Europe, and security for ourselves in a free world.
Your task will not be an easy one. Your enemy is well trained, well equipped and battle-hardened. He will fight savagely.
But this is the year 1944 ! Much has happened since the Nazi triumphs of 1940-41. The United Nations have in-flicted upon the Germans great defeats, in open battle, man-to-man. Our air offensive has seriously reduced their strength in the air and their capacity to wage war on the ground. Our Home Fronts have given us an overwhelming superiority in weapons and munitions of war, and placed at our disposal great reserves of trained fighting men. The tide has turned ! The free men of the world are marching together to Victory !
I have full confidence in your courage, devotion to duty and skill in battle. We will accept nothing less than full Victory !
Good Luck ! And let us all beseech the blessing of Almighty God upon this great and noble undertaking.
General Dwight Eisenhower
Absolutely they deserve each other!!
When you sleep with dogs you wake up with fleas.
Even McChrystal has a few screws loose. Volunteering that he “VOTED for OBAMA” is so unlike any senior officers of yore. Officers in the “brown shoe days” claimed to be apolitical.
Does anyone else see a weird similarity with the recent Khost suicide bombing that tragically killed several of our CIA operators? In both cases they ignored security and welcomed the fox into the henhouse.
No commander is perfect. Some commanders are better than others. That means that some of them ain’t much good. But, barring actions that get them removed from command, they are still entitled to military courtesy from their subordinates.
You can talk about the platoon sergeant with your squad, you can talk about the company commander with your fellow sergeants, but you don’t talk to the lieutenants or the privates about the company commander. And so on.
And, you don’t talk to the media about anyone in your chain of command. You can get people below you transferred out of the unit, you have to live with people above you. Or, you transfer out or resign. Military is one of the few remaining bastions of courtesy and honor in our society, and even then it has its backsliders.
General McCrystal keeps his pension and deservedly so. In deference to Dr. Hanson, I think hubris is the explanation. Even if you are really good at what you do, you may not be as good as you think that you are.
Any officer above colonel … hell, captain, who cannot see they will soon be called upon to murder American citizens in a civil war, while on the wrong side, is either not paying attention or living in abject denial.
Why not escape now by getting yourself fired by an idiot Nero-like president on his way to eclipsing Jimmuh’s rap sheet.
McChrystal for president of the New Reconstituted United States.
Will @ 8 “I think this whole thing smells very strange.”
It smells all right. Under ordinary circumstances, Dr. Hanson would be right. Ordinary being that a president and his general are on the same side. What’s strange, and smells, is that in this case the president is aiding and abetting the enemy. What’s a general supposed to do in such a situation, go quietly through “proper channels” while things get worse and worse and no one wants to face up to the problem?
I’m with Thomas Sowell.
http://frontpagemag.com/2010/06/24/fare-thee-well-stan-mcchrystal-2/
If Rolling Stone is this good at subversive tactics, have them infiltrate foreign governments and other enemies of the United States, to expose what they are saying about the neophyte dictator we have as President.
I’m sure McChrystal would be welcomed back once that is published.
This really boggles my mind. All you people swallowing the spoon fed tripe from a rag like Rolling Stone.I read that hit piece twice and the only blatant remarks were from his staff,so he does the honorable thing accepts responsibility for his staff and offers his resignation, which Zero happily accepts cause now he has a scapegoat to blame for the failure of ROE’s that were passed down the chain of command to Gen.McChrystal.I know most of the armchair commandos ripping the General on these sites think that their vast sum of military tactics probably gleaned from video games think they know better,but consider something here.Why would a General who is known for operating in the field,on patrol,accompanying his men on night ops with little or no escort put into play ROEs that would get the men he obviously gives a damn about killed,men that obviously think the world of him, unless he was ordered to do so.A General who was so loathed by the Ambassador that the guy tried to frequently undermine McChrystal’s command with the State dept,the Pentagon,the Whitehouse as well as trying to poison the General’s dealings with the Afghan government.Those ROEs were written by someone and authorized by someone more concerned with making PR points with the people at home and foreign governments than someone concerned with the welfare of his troops.Don’t misunderstand this nobody wants innocent civilians getting killed or maimed but houses can be rebuilt,if its either abandoned or being used by the enemy you flatten it.Something else as well, a lot of people that voted for Zero are waking up or have woken up to fact they made an error in judgement when they cast their ballot as for myself I don’t give a rat’s backside who the General voted for,besides it sounds like he has regretted it for sometime.Try giving it some thought before you play Zero’s game and blame the General for the failures of The Pretender in Chief.
The McChrystal plan:
1) Get with Petraeus or plan with Petraeus so that when McChrystal gets fired and Petraeus is asked to step in he will know exactly what demands to make.
2) Allow a Rolling Stones reporter access to yourself and your staff knowing full well that even off the record comments won’t be kept off the record.
3) Let “slip” to the reporter what the major obstacles to victory are; a clueless CIC, a timetable for withdrawal, and presidential and Afghan diplomatic staff, (Biden, Eikenberry, Holbrooke), not on board with the President’s policy and publicly sabotaging the strategy.
4) Get fired.
5) Petraeus, the only person who can almost seamlessly step in, agrees to if conditions are met, (see #3).
6) Obama publicly states that the withdrawal date is not set in stone and that “I welcome debate among my team, but I won’t tolerate division.” in an effort to shut Biden up.
7) Fire Eikenberry and Holbrooke.
All but #7 have gone according to plan but #7 is essential. Obama can’t fire another field general so if Petraeus demanded it it should happen.
He is a General, therefore, should not be treated as us low life enlisted citizen soldiers are. Hence, strip him of his rank and his retirment pay, then cut him loose. He should be spared the death penalty, like normal folks, ….for his treason against his commander n chief, and real patriots. I just hope the “others” start listening up and “get back in line”… poste haste…. traitors must not be tolerated.
Ironies
General Patraus has morphed into General Eisenhower/Washington and may well morph into President Eisenhower/Washington.
If Patreaus’ prosecution of the Afghanistan campaign is successful, he will get the credit. It it is not successful, Obama will bear the blame.
No one in the Obama administrtion, including Obama himself, will dare to try to undermine, sabatoge, or contradict Patreaus, for fear that he (Patreaus) may resign and run for President in 2012.
Patreaus, and to a lesser extent, Gates, are now inexpendable to Obama. Virtually everyone else in his adminstration is expendable.
America and the rest of the free world are now in better shape than they were a week ago. A great American been catapulted into the very apex of power in our government. Thanks “Rolling Stone”. I am sure that this outcome was not your intent, but we Americans owe you some gratitude anyway.
I also wish to express my gratitude to General McCrystal for his honorable courage and service to our country. I hope that his lapse in judgement with the “Rolling Stone” interviews turn out to be only a bump in the road and that his contributions continue in a successful post military career.
My take on David Frum and my take on the McChrystal firing (link in post)
http://www.bloggybayou.com/2010/06/david-frum-at-frumforum-completely.html
Cheers
I will only raise two points.
Were McChrystal and his staff so naive, so stupid, and so gullible so as to really trust the faux journalist from Rolling Stone, a notorious far Left military bashing yellow journal, or were they using Hastings to get their message across to the President that the Afghan Campaign was failing? I nominate the latter.
Before deciding to fire General McChrystal, did President Obama bother to consult with his allies in the Afghan Campaign to see if they approved of or objected to his plan to fire General McChrystal and replace him with General Petreus? I doubt very much if Obama consulted with anyone by Rahm Emmanuel and David Axelrod.
I am left to believe that General McChrystal used Rolling Stone to deliver his message to President Obama that the Afghan Campaign is quickly going FUBAR and that in a fit of personal pique, Obama fired and replaced General McChrystal without even talking to his allies.
Another great day of Amateur Hour for Barack Obama and another day of inconsistency and dithering for America’s few remaining allies.
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