Sailing to Byzantium
Istanbul
Compared to the last time I was here, the city is unrecognizable. On both the European and Asian shores, some 13 million now make up greater Istanbul. The carbon dioxide level of the Great Bazaar on a hot humid Friday afternoon must reach dangerous levels, and seems to suffocate within minutes. The shopkeepers are of course pushy, even provocative, but they offer strangely inviting and creative lines—“It is now my turn to take your money” or “Please don’t smile at me” or “ Stop! That’s mean to laugh at me” or “Let me show you how to spend your money.” Small blocks on the hills of old Constantinople seem to emulate San Francisco Victorian districts, but of course on closer inspection really do not.
I have visited the grand Hagia Sophia twice before, and it even more in middle age evokes a sense of tragedy. Compared to its Islamic copy—the Blue Mosque across the way (built about a thousand years later in a gasp of inferiority thinking that “we can do it better”)—its age and majesty shine out. Turkish guides still claim the minarets were added only to “bolster” the fragile dome, but they neither explain the prior flying supporting arches added for that very purpose centuries before the fall, nor how the dome existed for over a thousand years without the minarets. It needs millions in upkeep and restoration (work on the dome continues), and in comparison to the Blue Mosque, the jewel of old Christendom is rather seedy inside (though better than in the 1970s). Again, quite sad, especially when remembering the frightening narrative of the assembled, who in late May 1453 expected an archangel to rescue them moments before the Janissaries broke in …
The “Turkish Question”—is it West or East, should it be in the EU, is it a reliable NATO partner?—is hardly a question anymore. Istanbul is Western, its citizens Western in appearance, a liberality prevalent in commerce and discourse. And yet a 100 miles away in the interior, the traditional Middle East and Islam are on the rise. The West cannot decide what Turkey’s future is, since it is in the midst of a grand dialogue between itself—between its European West and its fundamentalist East. Europe will have to await the outcome.
I heard an engaging lecture by the author of the magisterial Ataturk biography, 83-year-young Andrew Mango, who reemphasized his long-held views that Turkey is Westernizing as never before, and belongs with Europe. Our Turkish guide was informative at Tokapi, but often propagandized about Turkish Westernism (e.g., only prejudice he swore keeps it out of the EU), falling into that traditional trope of often bitterly resenting the West that he so eagerly wishes to join, while bitterly resenting Middle East fundamentalism and indigenous prejudices that thwart modernism while chauvinistically praising all things Turkish.
The Dardanelles
This morning we passed through the Hellespont, through the narrows where Xerxes’s bridge brought his army into Europe in the largest sea-borne and supported invasion of the continent until Normandy, 1944. Monuments to Gallipoli dot the coast, as do remains of the Turkish forts.
At the narrowest the strait constricts to about a mile wide. The Gallipoli campaign was probably lost in March 1915 before the landings even began, when mines sunk a French dreadnaught and damaged a few British ships, preventing adequate bombardment and further steaming up the Dardanelles. Had the mines been properly cleared, the Allied fleet could easily have blasted the cliffs and headed all the way to the Bosporus to shell or occupy Istanbul. All the same, looking this morning at these barren foothills, one wonders how tens of thousands of Australians and New Zealanders were supposed to be fed and supplied while at the mercy of Turkish gunners, trained and armed by German specialists. The beaches and hills are naked, dry, and windswept.
Not far down the coast, around the corner are the waters of Aigospotami and Arginusae. Well over 500 Spartan and Athenian triremes were sunk in these environs between 413 and 404. Going in and out of the Hellespont and the coast of Asia Minor, I tried, from sea with maps, to spot the sites of the battles of Cyzicus, Cynosema, Notium, and Abydos—the ancient equivalent of Western-front butchery, of the last phase of the Peloponnesian War when the struggle was decided here at the mouth of the straits. The Athenians lost the war not 1500 miles away in Sicily in 413, but right here at the even greater catastrophe at the Hellespont between 413-404.
The geography could not be more strategic—the entrance to the breadbasket of the Black Sea grain plains, the Western maritime route out for the Islamic Middle East, the warm-water escape of the Russian fleet, the contested hot spots between Greece and Turkey, the route of overland pipelines from the oil-rich former Soviet Union. Tankers and cargo ships go by almost minute by minute, port and starboard. Steaming through the Dardanelles is like opening up a book on the history of the West. Through these straits the great Ottoman galley fleet headed west in 1571 to Lepanto. In 1973 in Istanbul I watched US ships, like taxis, waiting for the Soviet fleet to emerge out of the Bosporus, as they immediately tagged and followed each one out into the Sea of Marmara and into the Dardanelles here.
In the last 2500 years these waters and landscapes have never witnessed a 60-year long period of tranquility and prosperity as we see in the present. What keeps things in order for cruise and commerce ships; what prevents piracy, Greek-Turkish shoot-outs, new Russian belligerence, and Islamic suicide USS Cole-like attacks?
NATO ships and American leadership. Take that away and we’d be back to 1941, 1915, 1571, and 404 B.C. in a few years.We should remember that as we go into $2 trillion debt this year, since very soon this administration will by needs either raise taxes on the middle class or slash the military budget in late 1940s style.
Dr. Hanson, As mighty and far reaching as the American military is. It isn’t capable nor willing to do what you suggest they do. What the military does is create economies in these places. It is a creator of markets. And markets are what stabilizes civilizations. But, I submit to you that even without the military market there would not be a fall in civilization. Because once a people see and experience stable economies and markets they are loathe to return to the insecurity of anarchy. This is the primary reason for the rise of statism or oligarchies.
Very few people are capable of being free. They aren’t willing to except the responsibilities that come with the freedom to choose.
“very soon this administration will by needs either raise taxes on the middle class or slash the military budget in late 1940s style”
Or? I look for both to happen, whether it is needed or not. It’s like the scorpion stinging the frog, it’s what they do.
Prof. Hanson’s intellect and knowledge are modern wonder of the world. History is usually a leftist’s worse subject and Prof. Hanson is a living permanent reminder of their inadequacy.
“very soon this administration will by needs either raise taxes on the middle class or slash the military budget in late 1940s style”
Whoa! Someone needs to swallow a chill pill. The Obama administration will try and raise taxes and slash our military budget—but there is no reason whatsoever to consider this to be a done deal. The odds on our side, and we can put a stop to this nonsense. Victor Davis Hanson seems to be possibly abandoning the struggle and fatalistically waiting for the axe to fall on his neck. Obama, however, can be fairly easily defeated if we invest a little time and effort.
Our host is a scholar of ancient history, and that’s both good and bad. It is good that one understands the innate corruption of human activity. Homo sapiens are indeed often disgusting and lazy creatures. They are sinners to the core. But there is still hope. We still live in a constitutional republic, and the system favors the activist hoi polloi.
true
“But history is not always progressive, and without good government, national unity, and viable defense, the world returns to the status of the 15th-century Aegean.” I’ve often told my liberal friends that what I fear most is that as we become more like Europe, the Euros will have no one to fall back on. Our Euro friends are free to be adolescents while the U.S. holds firm. But give them one or two terms of Obama and the cover they expect (but nevertheless rail against) will disappear. No, history is not always progressive.
I am reminded of that old early American tale where the Indian says to the white man: “you need to learn to read sign!”
Ain’t it a miracle what history can teach one?
It’s odd that the clarity and perception of the Professor invites such harsh posters that now there needs to be an admonition at the top of the page.
The goofy ‘come-on’s’ by the Turkish retailers are a window into the distance between the average mid-easterner and westerner. It seems that they don’t know how to appeal even if they want to.
That Winston Churchill was the leader of the Gallipoli campaign and grew to be the great leader he became in spite of it is more evidence of his greatness.
When I was in Istanbul about 5 years ago, the guide pointed out how the restoration, which was removing calligraphy to uncover mosaics, was revealing that the craftsmen who covered those mosaics hundreds of years ago, carefully preserved them. They had covered the mosaics with straw and clay to protect them, probably in hopes that the Turks would be driven out in a few years. Nearly all those craftsmen, like the translators of the age of translations, were all “converted” Christians who still had hopes that the Byzantines would return.
Essential vdh
VDH, In America we are dealing with unfinished business. Keep in the fray. BHO and his cult like progress in appealing to human weakness will put American psychological back to the 400′s where all will be looking for a “Savior” and pissing their pants looking for someone else to take care of them.
The results of AA and PC have been to long neglected and has been allowed to drive America to the brink of failure. Failure due to the failure of humans within America. Humans are failing due to the inability to see that they are responsible for their individual lives. They do not have to be “rich” to do that.
The appeal to human weakness using the Utopian sirens song is wreaking America because everything the indoctrinated BHO says is a lie.
The “minorities” and their “daddies and mommies” and “sensitive” BS artists with their hands on and in the till have “salted” all who listen, all who avoid responsibility with the false gold of Utopian words that weakens and blinds all to the needs for individual responsibility and integrity.
BHO, words are the words of revolution, power grabs, class warfare and murder. Historically this is so. VDH get on it.
Quit being a journalist historian and start defining how America got here. It must be defined as what was in the minds of early Americans that gave them the power and the ability to overcome fear to push ahead. Hardships happen to everyone and the winning or losing takes place after the hardships occur—What do I do about it.
Nice post. Sounds like a wild time. :)
Great read VDH. The wonderful thing about history is its application to the present, not the past. But with that said, in a post titled “Sailing to Byzantium”, we went to “Istanbul”? Istanbul?!
Constantinople.
So there.
Ron, You have been here long enough to have seen the decline in discourse on this page. The Obama-Trolls are feeling their oats and my assumption is they seek out confrontation believing they are immune to criticism.
The trolls attitude parallels that of many within our democratic congress members. I’m reminded of how Aristotle defined the relationship between master and slave. Seems to me our current Congress has elevated itself to the position of natural master – with the rest of us expected to play the role of passive slave.
20 September 1973
1973 is a year that offers many tough lessons on which to reflect about what happens when something close to a political vacuum occurs.
In 1973, Turkey invaded Cyprus and took control of roughly one half of its territory, setting up a Kashmir scenario that persists to this day. A tricky situation indeed considering Turkey was/is an ally of the U.S.
In Jordan, the Palestine Liberation Army was fighting to liberate the West Bank from the Kingdom of Jordan, whose Jordanian flag and sovereignty had ruled over it (the West Bank) since Transjordan had been partitioned in 1948 by United Nations Mandate and palestinians rejected the two state solution that included the West Bank.
Having been unsuccessful in deposing the Kingdom of Jordan, PLO moved through Syria to Lebanon to make Beirut and southern Lebenon a war zone, escorted by 20,000 Soviet Troops stationed on Syrian border to offer disincentive to anyone who would try to stop the PLO’s efforts to set up a base in Lebanon.
The idea of confronting PLO’s retreat from Jordan through Syria was considered by both Israel and U.S., but rejected based on the recent Vietnam theory that regional conflicts only escalate superpower tension and could lead to a superpower clash. Best to let PLO make it safely to Lebanon, and worry about all later.
Tough luck for Lebanese citizens though.
This is from a history professor?? It contains numerous errors the most egregious of which is his claim that the region had never known 60 years of peace and prosperity until the Americans came. In fact after the priates were elimanted from the eastern Mediterranean during the reign of Augustus the region enjoyed two and a half centuries of peace until the crisis of the third century. Even after that the region enjoyed another century of peace until the second Gothic invasion.
4. David Thompson: “We still live in a constitutional republic, and the system favors the activist hoi polloi.”
We don’t live in a constitutional republic. Perhaps 85% of the US Code and Statues (whole floors of volumes of the Library of Congress) can be found constituitonally wanting after 213 years of lobbied lawmakers distracting the hoi polloi with gobbledegook laws. And, as you say, “the system favors the activist hoi polloi”.
In addition, a rabble-rouser runs the country with a cabal of adolescent 60s radicals he calls ‘czars’, none of whom has a decent education in history, ancient or American, and all of whom see foreign policy as a passé and dangerous craft.
So how could Victor be wrong? And why are we not imperiled by them.
Turkey should be allowed in NATO as soon as they return the Hagia Sofia to its rightful owners.
Christopher Cross – Sailing lyrics
Artist: Christopher Cross
It’s not far down to paradise
At least it’s not for me
And if the wind is right you can sail away
And find tranquility
The canvas can do miracles
Just you wait and see
Believe me
It’s not far to never never land
No reason to pretend
And if the wind is right you can find the joy
Of innocence again
The canvas can do miracles
Just you wait and see
Believe me
Sailing
Takes me away
To where I’ve always heard it could be
Just a dream and the wind to carry me
And soon I will be free
Fantasy
It gets the best of me
When I’m sailing
All caught up in the reverie
Every word is a symphony
Won’t you believe me
It’s not far back to sanity
At least it’s not for me
And when the wind is right you can sail away
And find serenity
The canvas can do miracles
Just you wait and see
Believe me
Though I suppose it is quite safe to travel as VDH is now doing I have lost the desire and more importantly the courage. I’ve grown somewhat timid as I’ve aged. And I can’t deny the collapse of America all around me has exacerbated my condition. Even though I am firmly convinced of my eternal security … life here on earth is now fraught with concern.
It’s a shame as now I have a broader view of world history there are many things I’d like to see and investigate. But I’ll have to satisfy myself with books. The window is closing for me but soon I fear it will close for all as surely WW III if not a thing much worse is very near.
From:http://www.online-literature.com/yeats/781/
Sailing to Byzantium
William Butler Yeats
THAT is no country for old men. The young
In one another’s arms, birds in the trees
- Those dying generations – at their song,
The salmon-falls, the mackerel-crowded seas,
Fish, flesh, or fowl, commend all summer long
Whatever is begotten, born, and dies.
Caught in that sensual music all neglect
Monuments of unageing intellect.
An aged man is but a paltry thing,
A tattered coat upon a stick, unless
Soul clap its hands and sing, and louder sing
For every tatter in its mortal dress,
Nor is there singing school but studying
Monuments of its own magnificence;
And therefore I have sailed the seas and come
To the holy city of Byzantium.
O sages standing in God’s holy fire
As in the gold mosaic of a wall,
Come from the holy fire, perne in a gyre,
And be the singing-masters of my soul.
Consume my heart away; sick with desire
And fastened to a dying animal
It knows not what it is; and gather me
Into the artifice of eternity.
Once out of nature I shall never take
My bodily form from any natural thing,
But such a form as Grecian goldsmiths make
Of hammered gold and gold enamelling
To keep a drowsy Emperor awake;
Or set upon a golden bough to sing
To lords and ladies of Byzantium
Of what is past, or passing, or to come.
We should start campaigning to resturn Constaninople to the native Christian Europeans. I mean, why not? All the muslims are going crazy with hatred for the Jews in Israel(who founded that country, they’re demanding its total destuctionthe and the complete return of Israeli land to the islamist muslims. So we in turn in the West should demand we get back all of Constantinople as well. I’m sure the same leftists who support the islamist jihadists and demonize Israel will jump at the chance to support this cause immediately.
Turkey should also be kept out of the EU and be booted from NATO. They support islamist terrorists, are occupying Greek and European land, tried to block the current leader of NATO because he’s Danish (cartoon controversy…), they hate Jews, they’re xenophobic to an insane degree, they persecute religious and racial minorities, they border the extremely unstable middle east which could drag us into a regional conflict, their country is full of islamofacists and they refuse to acknowledge the Armenian genocide. Need I go on? They’re at least 100 years behind the West. They’re islamist barbarians who will permanently destroy and weaken Europe and North America. They should be immediately kicked out of NATO and permanently rejected EU membership.
Boycott Turkey.
If Turkey wants to prove to the West and the EU that it is a modern, secular country, then it should return Hagia Sophia to the Greek Orthodox Church. Millions of Christians would travel to Istanbul to celebrate Mass in the Great Church of the East. I would be one of them.
“So how could Victor be wrong? And why are we not imperiled by them.”
We are definitely imperiled by Obama and his leftist allies. Nonetheless, we have the odds in our favor! Our people simply must invest some money, time, and effort. There is no logical reason for passivity. By all rights, our opponents should be the ones worrying. They can be fairly easily marginalized.
Dr. Hanson -
Thanks for a fascinating post. Not being versed in ancient history, I can only take solace in knowing there are a few souls who can still appreciate such things (and the physical remnants of them) and share insight on it. Keep up your great work.
Separately, I would be interested in your take on the recent townhall meetings and commentary. It seems to me the concepts of liberty and freedom are utterly lost on many of our elites. The double standard being applied is now out in the open.
I recall a few years ago that many prominent Democrats were preening and taking umbrage at their patriotism allegedly being questioned for protesting the war in Iraq (although I do not recall seeing where it actually had). I also recall vividly Hillary Clinton literally shrieking how it was patriotic to debate and disagree with any administration. Fair enough. They, of course, have every right to peacefully express their views, as that is the American way.
Yet, we know have the top leaders in the House (Nancy Pelosi and Steny Hoyer) describing this very activity as “un-American” published in a nationwide newspaper thereby actually challenging the patriotism of these citizens attending townhall meetings and expressing their disapproval. What?!? This assertion is so far beyond the pale as to be nearly beyond characterization. It is, however, infuriating, to see such towering arrogance displayed by supposedly-enlightened and informed “leaders”.
The Declaration of Independence, the actual founding document of our country, asserts that our rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness derive from Our Creator, not from the government or any individual leader. The notion that there can or should be a “right to health care” created by the federal government is laughable on its face.
No doubt, many aspects of the health industry cry out for reform. However, many of the very promoters of the Bill on the table have shifted the debate away from the merits, which are being daily exposed, as people now have time to actually read the Bill. The promoters of the Bill now prefer to play politics, as the Bill’s substance, evidently, cannot be defended on the merits. Curious. Obviously, bumper sticker talking points can only get you so far.
As for the trolls, you must be striking nerves close to home. Otherwise, you would be ignored. But, there is no need to worry about them. We all know what happens to trolls when they are exposed to sunlight…
Kind regards,
GGA – Dublin, Ohio
RAP, I think that your comment actually supports VDH’s argument more than it hurts it. How was there peace in that part of the world? The Roman Empire had to exert its influence and project its military and naval might to enforce the peace. If left to itself the rivalries and pirates would have returned, akin to how US and NATO influence now helps to keep things in check in that area. So, great example backing up VDH and his outlook on the area.
Victor, one of the lessons that frankly not too many want to learn is this: the emotional, psychological and mental makeup of those who have weapons. This counts more than the weapons themselves.
Plus, given the perfidiousness, nefariousness and risibleness of the Oval Office and fellow travellers, don’t be at all surprised to see efforts like that of Marshall Pilduski in working with neighbouring countries to fence in the bear.
Now I’m ready to hear about a trip along the south coast of Asia (Minor), like where exactly is the pirate cove where Julius Caesar was held captive for ransom? And on to the stomping grounds of Cornelius Sulla and Gaius Marius… Yes, Turkey had a rich and fascinating history long before the Turks showed up.
Intersting article until you get to the last paragraph when he cannot resist saying something stupid
Remove US forces around the world you would see many wars. Pakistan vs India, A second Korean war, Russian invasion of Ukraine and the 3 Baltic nation, China would invade Twain. Serbia would retake former Yugoslavian areas. Egypt or Iran would take Saudi in a heart beat. Not to mention a 5th partition of Poland.
If I was Greek getting Constantinople back would be a dream come true.
Whoops, that should be Pilsudski. For instance, those countries that are most in favour of the Borjomi Declaration co-ordinate their foreign policy in a matter akin to the co-ordination between British and American militaries in the second world war.
In other words, another Eisenhower, but being the voice of the foreign departments of those, I suspect, European powers, plus with input from Australia, Israel, and Japan.
For, the period of transition between the perfidious issuing orders from the Pentagon, Foggy Bottom, and the Oval Office, to a network of alliances is something not to be overestimated.
the usa can not afford to police the world, look at our debt, economy, and increasing health care needs. we need to take care of the people in this country first, and let the world police itself.
#17 RAP: “This from a history professor? It contains numerous errors, the most egregious of which is his claim that the region had never known 60 years of peace and prosperity until the Americans came.” I agree; in fact, it’s errors of this nature that undermine Mr. Hanson’s credibility as a commentator.
Mr. Hanson needs to study the history of the Eastern Roman Empire, also known as the Byzantine Empire. While there were ups & downs, the Empire was the most powerful state in Europe for 700 years, from the 500s until the late 1100s. While western Europe was in the Dark Ages, Constantinople was a center of arts and culture. Things changed only when Constantinople was sacked by the 4th Crusade in 1204.
#23 Blackwater: “we should start campaigning to return Constantinople to the native Christian Europeans…..” What natives are you referring to? There was a massive exchange of populations in the years immediately after World War I. The Christian population of modern Istanbul is rather small, altho the Eastern Orthodox Patriarch remains. And which Christians? Are you thinking to somehow undo the great schism of 1054?
“Refuse to acknowledge the Armenian genocide…..” Genocide depends on which account you’re reading. But it was a different Turkish government and different time regardless. Following your logic, every state in the USA needs to apologize to, and acknowledge, what was done to slaves and native Americans. Do you support that?
“They support Islamist terrorists; are occupying Greek and European land……” Last time I checked, I didn’t see any sign of Turkey supporting al-Qaeda nor do they hate Jews. Turkey does have diplomatic relations with Israel. As for occupying Greek land, which land are you referring to? The Ottomans were thrown out of all their European territory in the first Balkan war about 1911. Then the Greeks, Serbs, Bulgarians, etc. fought each other in a second war and the Turks retook Edirne, with what is now European Turkey. Population there is Turkish, not Greek. Tracking your argument, the British should give the Falklands to Argentina, or Gibraltar to Spain, regardless of the wishes of those populations.?
#27 Harward1 to RAP: “I think your argument actually supportts VDH’s argument….” Maybe, but Mr. Hanson’s poor job of research undermines his own position.
#31 Ruebacca: “Remove US forces around the world; you would see many wars….” I doubt it. For example, US forces and NATO were nowhere around when the Slovenes and Croats threw the Serb military out of their countries. Another partition of Poland? Doubtful. Another Korean war? Even comrade Kim is smart enough to know his military wouldn’t last longer than a few days against the S. Koreans.
I haven’t seen such a level of anti-Turkish venom in quite a while. To say that the Turks hate Jews is preposterous. As far as Hagai Sophia, the Turks are very respectful.
After 500 years, you still want to punish the Turks. Get over it!
The principal problem today is not with Moslems.. but with Arabs.
Ahhh… how long has there been problems in the region?
It goes back, far back:
“‘My father, behold, the enemy’s ships came (here); my cities(?) were burned, and they did evil things in my country. Does not my father know that all my troops and chariots(?) are in the Hittite country, and all my ships are in the land of Lukka? . . . Thus, the country is abandoned to itself. May my father know it: the seven ships of the enemy that came here inflicted much damage upon us.’” – Letter of Ammurapi to Suppululiuma II of the Hittites telling of the Sea People.
Perhaps the Turks can learn something of the Old Hittites now long, long gone? Of course even the mighty Empires had problems when the Bronze Age closed out:
The countries — –, the [Northerners] in their isles were disturbed, taken away in the [fray] — at one time. Not one stood before their hands, from Kheta, Kode, Carchemish, Arvad, Alashia, they were wasted. {The}y {[set up]} a camp in one place in Amor. They desolated his people and his land like that which is not. They came with fire prepared before them, forward to Egypt. Their main support was Peleset, Tjekker, Shekelesh, Denyen, and Weshesh. (These) lands were united, and they laid their hands upon the land as far as the Circle of the Earth. Their hearts were confident, full of their plans. (Medinet Habu, Year 8 inscription.) – Inscription by Ramases III at Medinet Habu.
The web of trade that moved from Asia over the sea to as far as modern France went through those very same waters and the islands of the Greeks. The Achaean Greeks had sought to break the vassals of the Hittites and what fell, instead, was nearly everything…
“Thus the watchers are guarding the coasts : command of Maleus at Owitono… 50 men of Owitono to go to Oikhalia, command of Nedwatas…. 20 men of Kyparssia at Aruwote, 10 Kyparissia men at Aithalewes…. command of Tros at Ro’owa: Kadasijo a shareholder, performing feudal service…. 110 men from Oikhalia to Aratuwa.” – Clay tablet found at Pylos.
A clay tablet fired… not by a kiln but by a burning town… surely those, centuries later, would understand those words and the urgency and fear of them. And if our modern web of trade falls, we may look to the last great web that allowed so many to prosper for so long. Until it all fell apart and it would take centuries to get to a new time of unrest…the actors change, but the story remains ever the same in that region of the world. Very foreboding its past as it repeats again and again.
30. The Shadow
People who have been intimidated by creditors know that payment isn’t a stupid thing. The spending was.
Does not the idea we find so confounding, the idea that “there is no good or evil, just subtle nuances and penumbra” confer just a little bit of credence to the notion, that in the civil, and not so civilized world, we are subjects of an interglobal collection of unaccountable elites? I mean, when our leadership appears to be getting along with some repugnant leaders, and privately he might say, “Oh, that prime minister of France can sometimes be a real S.O.B., but we manage to get along o.k. Sometimes I cave, sometimes he caves…And that premier of North Korea sure does run a police state, with many human rights abuses and starvation on a massive level, but hey, we got those two kidnapped journalists back home now didn’t we?”
Don’t we get the sense that they are just too lazy to keep from “going along to get along”? And anyway, isn’t there enough cash available to deal with this?
There is something about even being in the position to even be exceptional in the first place: It didn’t happen by accident, or because things are “unfair”– it was hard fought and hard won, and those who administered it best were the ones who turned the tide against the evil plunderers and pilferers. One thousand years ago, Poland was the dominant kingdom in Europe, and yet they found themselves at the mercy of Tartars, whose conquering policy was the killing and annihilation of every last man in Polish villages, burning everything to the ground, followed immediately by the raping of all women and children and removing them to serve as slaves and concubines. They did not set up any form of rule or assimilation as the Khan’s might have.
Its not something you can just casually soft shoe away from with cool and street lingo; There are consequences- chaotic ones- when some person or person spies a vacuum or void to lurch into.
“Head in the Sand’ is not a viable political policy of withdrawl or disengagement from trouble spots round the world.
To pretend that all operate with justifiable political systems in all parts of the world is not only naive, but amounts to being taken in by a ruse: When Britain abolished slavery in 1824, they went further: they abolished the slave trade around the circumference of Africa, because they had faster ships by which to intercept the traders who still tried to operate. No one credits this action with end of the slave exportation from Africa, but it ended it, almost.
The saudi slavers of those president 0bama claims as his east african ancestor used to cut the throats of their bound captives, and throw them overboard if they spotted a British ship on their way back.
They now corral newly arrived Philipine workers, maids and laborers, into a basement, confiscate their passports, and tell you that history records their outlawing of slavery, in 1965. Outlawed, yes. Abolished, no.
I wonder what the distance of the circumference of Africa is relative to our distance from the moon? Prestige is one area where we, by landing men on the moon and returning them to earth, went on to defeat that other slave state, the Soviet Union, because they could not bear the bad PR of continuing their failed space program.
Respect and recognition by western powers was the major preoccupation of the soviet Union: that’s why they miscalculated and conceded to Henry Jackson’s stipulation to permit Jews to emigrate from the Soviet Union in an Arms Limitation/Grain deal in the late 70′s, and thereby admitted to the world that the system was inhuman, especially to those not indigenous to the vast, then atheistic region.
But back to the original point, was conquest the way to expand into the Western point of the Asian penninsula to displace the original greeks who lived there? How do Greeks consider the question of returning once Greek lands and cities back to them? Or have they not been able to bring it up, loaded down as we are with questions concerning land repatriation in Kashmir, or Ceylon, Taiwan, West Bank, Andalusia and so on? Or is it just not worth their while, right now. Would it be so out of the ordinary if they did?
Some are poised for more reconquest and are waiting for the right conditions or moment to strike, or “negotiate” in the interim. What will we do, in order to pacify them, for the sake of ‘peace’.
Zimbabwe has seen some pretty severe annexation and reparation, in recent years, to the detriment and destruction of its farms, and its harmful effects on the native population, both economically and physically, by the kleptocracy there. Others look the other way, while those same people, here at home, envision the same imminent domaim seizures here as never before, using Mugabe, Castro, and Chavez as their models.
Dear Dr. Hanson, After reading some of the comments to your post, I could only think of “Au sublime au ridicule il n’y a qu’un pas”.
“The odds on our side, and we can put a stop to this nonsense.”
David, as long as you contend with Obama, you will lose. He is only the messenger. The source is Saul Alinsky and apparently his day has come. If you don’t know your enemey you certainly won’t know how to fight him.
Churchill blamed the complacency of the Admiralty and the commanding officers for the debacle in the Dardanelles. The invasion force dawdled on the beachhead many hours hours while the Turks moved up defenders. When word at last came to move out at daylight, the British discovered they had to look into the rising sun. The commanding general, an elderly gent who had spent a career in administration, positioned himself on a ship an hour away from the action. The Brits thought they would win because they were fighting the lowly Turks, so attention was not paid to detail.
Uh, Steve in Colorado: The USA has apologized to everyone you mention. Different Americans, different government, different time, and all that. Now. Your point about Turkey and the Armenians?
“We cannot afford to be the policeman of the World.”
If you think the cost is high now, wait until you get the bill when we aren’t the World’s Policeman!
Dr. Hanson:
A wonderful tour of the past in the eastern Mediterranean! Thank you.
The article focused on the battlefields, but the battles are just the tremors of the greater battle between the European culture, however it is defined in an age, and the Asian culture, coming out of the Anatolian interior. Sometimes the European culture extends into Asia; Alexander, the Romans, the Byzntines, the English. Sometimes Asians go well into Europe; the Goths, the Huns, the Ottomans.
#42 Thomas L. “The USA has apologized to everyone you mention….” Nope, don’t think so. My point stands re the Turks & Armenians.
But if you & Blackwater really want to get into apologies, consider Armenian aggression against the Azeris since the demise of the Soviet Union. They went far beyond just support of the Armenian population in Nagarno-Karabakh.
Ah, the Grand Sweep of History
Dr. Pournelle visited the area,
and took the trouble to find
the shrine to the Spartans;
The real one, not the tourist
trap.
“When I came to the shrine,
there were two wilted flowers
in a stone vase; When I left,
there were three.”
Professor Hanson implied an interesting thought experiment in the last paragraph: what would most likely happen in the world over the course of the next 100 years, if the U.S. suddenly went bankrupt tomorrow and ceased to be a powerful influence in the world?
Which of the current fault lines of prominent national and international political controversies are likely to be stabilized, or further destabilized, and which tectonic plates are likely to shift? Who is the most likely to fill the vacuum(s) of power?
Quantifying the basic elements of quality of life (e.g., Maslow’s hierarchy) in terms of statistical probability, in the short term and long term, who’d be better off, and who’d be worse off?
It would be interesting to scientifically poll the spectrum of political affiliations, and also random people in the world, to find out what they believe the most likely consquences will be for their own lives and their neighbors’ lives if that were to happen.
Mr. Hanson: Regarding your last three paragraphs…
There’s so much we take for granted, so many seemingly small traditions and customs that Presidents both Republican and Democrat have not disturbed over the years, that we don’t realize how much is at stake with this ignorant President being in charge of our security and the security of The West.
Quoted from and linked to at:
http://www.thecampofthesaints.com/2009.08.16_arch.html#1250546495449
This is a response to Mr Hanson’s editorial in the 9/17/09 issue of the SJ Mercury News. His basic point is that the Democrats were nasty to Bush, now the Republicans are responding with nastiness toward Obama, and its time to stop. Stopping the nastiness is a good idea. But lets be honest about where the nastiness truly took root. It started with the rise of right wing talk radio during the Clinton administration. Truly bizarre attacks- like the commission of multiple murders- were directed at the Clintons. And the small matter of an unnecessary impeachment should not be forgotten.
Mr Hanson wears 2 hats- one as editorialist and one as historian. Inaccurate polemics, such as his essay on decorum, do not persuade. They do however undermine his status as a respected historian.