Works and Days

By Victor Davis Hanson

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December 7, 2008 - 11:07 pm - by Victor Davis Hanson
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Obama Hot Spots


1) Pakistan is a de facto belligerent, analogous to Syria without the billions in US aid. It is nuclear, and anti-Democratic (despite its national elections); its various semi-government entities and religious fanatics are against most that we are for. It offers Obama only bad and worse choices, and his campaign promises of hot pursuit into Pakistan look remote. Look to see gradual estrangement and an outsourcing of the problem to India.
2) Inflation or Collapse? I don’t think we are near a Great Depression by any metric—GDP performance, unemployment, or bank collapses. But at some time in the near future, the enormous bailouts, reprieves on debt, spiraling federal debt and borrowing from overseas, expansion of the money supply, envisioned near zero-interest loans, and trillion-dollar plus savings in gas and energy prices will, in the manner of a perfect storm, begin to create a great inflation. When capital invested in stock, cash, bonds, or real estate brings no interest or profit, then indebtedness has less of a down side, and inflation starts to roar.
3) Unbridled Left. So far the Left has held its tongue, still basking in a return to power of liberal government and perhaps the most ostensibly leftwing President in our entire history. That means the centrist appointments and flip-flops are permissible for a time and contingent on heart-and-soul, true-believer policies and appointments to come. But if that should not materialize, and war, recession, and inflation take off the veneer of Obamania, then watch the rumbling escalate into 1968-like furor.
4) Another 9/11? Wiretapping. Renditions. Predator attacks in Waziristan. The killing of insurgents in Afghanistan and Iraq. Increased border security. All that has been as useful in preventing another attack as they have proven easy fodder for leftist critics. I think Obama realizes that (1) if he ends the above, and we get hit, the Left will take no responsibility for such laxity, but (2) suggest our vulnerability was due to tactical shortcomings of his administration (or perhaps justified retaliation from our enemies) rather than their zeal for the disastrous repeal of past safety measures.
5) Condescension. Americans are sincerely proud of our meritocratic system that puts no institutional hurdles in the way of anyone of any race or religion reaching the highest office. We forget American exceptionalism on that account, especially in the wake of global hysterical approval of the Obama victory. Yet those abroad who think his ascension marks a radical change in American foreign policy into something more resembling their own—leftist, statist, collectivist with financial and ethical claims on the United States—may become sorely suprised. In truth, the world is mostly a far more illiberal place, as we have already seen in some racially awkward remarks from the leaders of Russia, Italy, Venezuela, and Iran. So if Obama proves to be a staunch supporter of American values and interests (more a JFK abroad than a Jimmy Carter), expect intemperance from the Chinese, Russians, Arabs, and some South Americans (all with questionable records of tolerance for racial diversity in general and equal-handedness for blacks in particular).

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44 Comments, 44 Threads, 2 Trackbacks

  1. 1. Cranky Greg

    Victor – you are the best, but you are wrong about the economy. We’re about to give The Great Depression a run for its money, so to speak. This bad economic thing is just starting….

  2. 2. cfbleachers

    (1) if he ends the above, and we get hit, the Left will take no responsibility for such laxity, but (2) suggest our vulnerability was due to tactical shortcomings of his administration (or perhaps justified retaliation from our enemies) rather than their zeal for the disastrous repeal of past safety measures.

    VDH, my friend…you have clearly not much experience at being a leftist. If we take a hit after the relaxation of those defenses, they will blame the Bush Administration.

    You have to understand the physics of a blame hole. It is similar to a black hole, facts, logic, clues and evidence go in…but they never come out again.

    A blame hole has only two major properties the gravity of finding “root causes” to jusitfy the acts of our enemies and the inertia of “root blame” to justify the daily slander against America, the West, Israel, republicans, conservatives, corporate executives, practicing Jews and Christians and essentially anyone connected with the “establishment”.

    Blame holes bend light and matter, so that the former is never shed upon us and the latter disappears from sight. Asking a leftist to admit error and to honorably accept responsibility for negative consequences is a futile and fruitless endeavor. I would say “ask the Cambodians”, but unfortunately, the ones with the most appropriate replies would not be around to respond if you did.

  3. 3. Micha Elyi

    Thanks for showing trust in the power of Americans to regenerate their country’s economic strength, Dr. Hanson, despite the present surreal conditions (“surreal”, an apt description).

    I agree that a Great Depression-like economic trauma, one in which one-quarter of US households have no one earning wages, salary, or drawing a pension, for a year or more at a stretch is not on the horizon. I believe that cranky folks who think such a disaster is on its way have taken the Long Boom that began in the Reagan years so much for granted that they consider any slowdown to be an economic catastrophe.

    Sadly, I hear a lot of cranky economic apocalypse talk from many people under 40 years old, the oldest of whom were in their early teens when the Dow broke 1000 for the first time ever and were unaware children during the economic turmoil of the 1970s. This is recent history yet so many Americans are ignorant of it (or have lived long enough to forget their own experiences).

  4. 4. Formwiz

    On Westerns – Widmark nails the real secret of how the West was won when he tells George Peppard, “You see those people? Half of them fresh off the boat from Europe, but they’ll make it! Why? Because they’re willing to change their ways. If the Indians want to survive, they’ll have to do the same thing!”.

    It was the clash of cultures (private property, etc.) that made what happened inevitable; not enough common ground. The Indians only adapted to their environment (Coronado, after all, encountered the Apaches in Kansas)and, in the West, to the horse, but saw no other reason to change. The Indians’ lack of synthetic manufacture on any but the most rudimentary levels was similar to the situation of the barbarians facing the Roman legions. I’d like to hear Dr. Hanson spend some time comparing the winning of the West to the Roman conquests. After all, there would have been no London or Paris without Roman intervention.

    Another reason. almost never mentioned, was the Indians’ inability to reproduce in numbers. It made the bedchamber the most strategic battleground of all. When white families had ten kids or more and an Indian woman was considered prolific if she had three, it’s obvious the numbers game was going in only one direction. This was why the Empire had to eventually withdraw from Britain and holds such portent in our own time.

  5. 5. mike

    Why the Western movie material here? Kind of extraneous.

  6. 6. James

    I disagree, I think the economy is all falling based on this housing business, and once the banks have confidence back, the economy will recover. Its not as though the money isn’t out there anymore.

    The GDP of the country DOUBLED from 1983 til 2007…its just some of the absurd growth of that period being shed. Also, Europe was way too big for its britches…and they are coming back down to Earth as well.

    Great Depression this is not.

  7. 7. RJ

    My crystal ball suggests inflation.

    When Senator Dodd stands before America and states the CEO of GM should step down, after it has been stated President Bush tried 12 times to alter Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to no avail due to Dodd’s and Frank’s interventions, when a reading of Tacitus and John Stuart Mill tells me such politicians will undermine and posssilby destroy a society, I say the future looks very bleak.

    And what game is left for these blowhards to play? INFLATION my friends!

    As Obama tells Americans he wants to rebuild our infrastructure using a new “work” program…I see Chairman Mao telling the peasants great things will come from great projects! Begin building and working!

    Ah, the sweet taste of the whip! Some like it, and some really like it!

    Those who don’t are generally shot at some point in time, right? Right!

  8. 8. Maggie

    So true…”This is pathetic! Obama is a deer-in-the-headlights who hasn’t a clue what to do. He has no cadre of trusted, long time confidants, and hasn’t even taken office and yet has already switched positions ad infinitum, and looks as lined and tired as George Bush did after eight years of actual governance.”

    Obama is the worst President-elect EVER.

  9. 9. Brian Richard Allen

    Wrong, Cranky Greg, about the economy? I think not!

    Pretty soon we will see the effect of the perfect storm created by the Trillions of Dollars blown on “bailouts,” the gearing down of enterprise after enterprise, like those we have seen since the election and that have already seen to the first more than half a million Zero-caused firings and lay-offs, the “administration’s” fascistic ideologues insisting on applying their “health-insurance” rules, regulations and controls upon almost 20% of the economy and the “administration’s” Weimar Republic Keynesians turning to the printing presses to pay for it all. Before the end of 2009 we will be looking at 20+% inflation.

    And before the ignominious end, in 2012, of the Zero “presidency,” absolutely runaway inflation, 20% unemployment, 30% mortgage interest, 40% bank overdraft rates and 50% credit card interest.

    Brian Richard Allen
    Los Angeles – CalifUBAMAcated 90028

  10. 10. Thinking Person

    I need to add one to the list…the unions. They overwhelmingly came out in support of Obama and helped put him in office. His support of the card check act is a sign that he is willing to cough up some favors now. In light of what the unions have wrought on the auto industry and the steel industry and the educational system, why would the idea of making it easier to form MORE unions in industries that have been exempt so far seem like a good idea? In terms of the American worker, I find Obama’s support of the card check act the most troublesome thing I’ve seen so far. It’s a problem that didn’t land in his lap. It will be a problem of his own choosing.

  11. 11. Ron Kean

    Thanks to the professor for keeping us up to date.

    It was very interesting reading the professor’s critique on college education in the City Journal this past weekend if anyone’s curious and has kids thinking about college.

    It was one of VDH’s finest reflections on higher education.

  12. 12. David Thomson

    “His support of the card check act is a sign that he is willing to cough up some favors now.”

    I am fairly optimistic that the card check proposal is not going anywhere. Are there presently any polling numbers? My guess is that the vast majority of Americans are strongly against this nonsense. Also, the Obama administration is going to pay attention to the stock market. A disastrous piece of legislation like card check would cause a huge drop in the Dow Jones. We are also not going to endure an economic depression. The majority of Americans will merely have to tighten their belts for a year or two. There will be no soup lines and pictures of hungry children. We should be far more concerned with Barack Obama’s possible self-hating Americanism. Does he believe that our country is merely experiencing well deserved blow-back for its alleged misbehavior towards the “victims” of the planet? This is the real question that needs answering.

  13. 13. LSD

    Concerning the ‘surreal’, I can only say that, since the election I have been hoping that Obama would change. It seems to be working.

    Maybe his decision to appoint all his rivals is an early start to the 2012 campaign. All the stuff that happens in between: government, international incidents, blah, blah, blah.. will be handled by the team. The next term, of course, will be for six years rather than four.

  14. 14. argentinian

    I am from Argentina, in South America, where slavery was abolished in 1813 (3 years after the country gained independence, when we sere still fighting the Spanish), the law of universal suffrage -without ethnic exclusions- was passed -and obeyed- in 1912, and there were never laws about ethnic requirements for marriage -nor jim crow laws.
    my country has a tragic history of political intolerance, and several military dictatorships -all aided and even fostered by the United States- but ethnic relations are much better than in the US. So do not make glib generalization with no historical basis whatsoever on racial history in other countries (those who live in glass houses…)
    while some latin american are happy about Obama, most really don’t care. Meet the new boss, etc.

  15. 15. Kathy

    Ron, thanks for the heads-up re the City Journal VDH article. Another personal-favorite-thinkie-type, Theodore Dalrymple (author=47), also can be found there.

    PS: Just picked up those two Winston Groom titles you recommended & will get to them as soon as I finish ‘My Father’s Country’

  16. Bad is good grist for the mill of truth,
    And the mill is overflowing,
    Beware what the ghouls of guile sell,
    And just whose soul is knowing.

    Pirates hijacking pirates, hijacking pirates,
    But which sea do people see?
    Corruption from super tanker to think tank,
    To cult media mad simplicity.

    Bad is actually, in fact, a spirit,
    So is good,
    Disbelieve all that matters is matter,
    And be renewed.

    Let’s believe in honor, truth and justice,
    Though they can’t be proved right or wrong,
    And embrace the tough virtues of good,
    Where true love’s balance makes weak strong.

  17. 17. Kathryn

    I think Victor is exactly right that Obama will be doing radically leftist things under the radar. We have got to be on guard.

    http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/we-demand-true-conservative-leadership.html

  18. 18. Kevin

    When the government bubble, which is being over-inflated right now–pops, we’ll all have to hunt for our food like Sarah.

  19. 19. Sullihan

    When, in world history, not to mention American history, has a country with a wrecked economy ever won a war?

    As it is, whenever the issue in a presidential election is a perceived choice between peace and war, the voters have invariably elected the candidate who promises peace; and the country invariably gets a new or bigger war.

  20. 20. Sullihan

    And may I add that everything wrong in Argentina is the fault of the Norte Americanos and perfidious Albion. And Brazil. And pesky Paraguay. And that everything right with Argentina is due to the pluck and spirit and industry of their people, who are mostly of European extraction. And thanks for helping out by being neutral in World War II. Its not Argentina’s fault that the Nazi’s saw it as one of the few places they could escape to after the war.

  21. 21. argentinian

    No, everything wrong with Argentina is the fault of Argentinians.
    neutrality during WW II is not one of the things that makes me proud of my country.
    I might be mistaken, but I believe several nazi scientists were welcomed by the US.

    my point was different: ethnic relations in argentina, due to historical-social reasons (abolishing slavery early, mixed marriages, no jim crow laws) are much more peaceful than in the states.

    some latin americans may like or dislike obama, but that is not related to the color of his skin. again, most argentinians don’t care either way. he could be green.

  22. 22. myth buster

    They were German scientists, not Nazi scientists. Dr. Heisenberg was single handedly responsible for convincing Hitler to abandon his nuclear weapons program.

  23. 23. josil

    I’m with you Argentinian. I wish more American commentary was as calm and straightforward as yours. There is altogether way too much leaping to conclusion, as if it were a new Olympic event.

  24. 24. Tom

    Interesting you mention strong women.

    That is why I am so attracted both politically and personally to Sarah Palin.

    She seems to be cut straight from that cloth. I could imagine her walking with the wagon train from St. Louis to Oregon or California, with kids in tow, fighting indians, bears, wolves, corrupt old-boy network. You just can’t love enough that American archetype enough, even if you disagree with them on issues, in this case McCain’s views parroted by her.

    It’s a shame the MSM hates her so much. Many of the young women/girls I’ve talked to are certainly inspired by her. Even the Maureen Dowds of the world melt at the convention clip of Piper holding her little brother Trig and using a little spit to slick his hair back. Magic.

  25. 25. Thinking Person

    #26 Tom….Just wanted to say I LOVE your characterization of Sarah Palin! I’m sure the liberal women in the NOW cave are still scratching their heads trying to figure out how such a modern woman came out of Alaska….let alone the Republican party!

  26. On “conservative reactions” 1-4:

    I opt for None of the Above. Obama is giving every indication that he is still a progressive, pragmatic or not. He is still talking about universal (i.e. socialized) health care, support for cap and trade (i.e. radical economic controls in the name of an always weak and now fading scientific hypothesis), a huge stimulus package (i.e. still more interference in the economy and waste of taxpayer money), etc., etc.

    A few allegedly centrist appointments mean very little. (Hillary Clinton is also a leftist/statist. Paul Volcker does not advocate capitalism. etc. etc)

    What would the man have to do to convince conservatives that he is what he says he is, announce that he’ll nationalize the oil companies Jan 21, 2009? He hardly needs to do that to continue to push for an end to the “ideology that has failed,” (in his view).

    There’s nothing under the radar about his stances or preferred outcomes. How much he’ll actually get done is, of course, always an open question until after the fact.

  27. 27. blight

    Excuse me, Mr. tolerant Argentina, what happened to your native Americans? There are many in Bolivia, but few in your country. Brazilians also consider themselves superior in racial tolerance to Americans. However, I have not seen any Brazilian black secretary of state, national security advisor, or president — granted I haven’t been looking closely.

  28. 28. Bill

    Looking forward to Niall Ferguson’s (VDH’s Hoover colleague) new book “The Ascent of Money…” Interviews with him have been fascinating. An outstanding big picture view.

    One wonders what the downstream effects of the anti-Hoover/Great Depression “bailout” economy might be in the years to come – including the inflationary spiral VDH suggests.

    I support of contemporary actors, Scott Glenn would make an “Uncle Billy” second to none!!

  29. 29. Dante

    Sorry, but this is goodbye when you write this:

    Americans are sincerely proud of our meritocratic system that puts no institutional hurdles in the way of anyone of any race or religion reaching the highest office.

    Oh, I see. Obama did it all on his own.

  30. 30. Concerned Citizen

    Professor, I’m afraid we have two more shoes to drop in this economic crisis; credit cards, which will remove a couple of trillion of credit from the system, and the Level 3 assets all the banks have been playing games with. We’ll survive the coming credit card debacle, though small businesses that run on these personally guaranteed credit instruments will suffer.

    However, once the toxic derivatives are exposed, all bets are off. The scale of these “financial weapons of mass destruction” exceeds the ability of any government on Earth to bail this out. If it goes that far and we inflate the way Congress and Treasury have been going, we’ll all be using gold coins and rocks for money.

  31. 31. James

    Cranky Greg….Oh yes, we’re about ot give the great depression “a run for its money.” Oh yes, I agree. During the Great Depression America lost 30% of its overall economic output. Now I do understand that, presently, America has already lost 1/10th of 1% of its overall output. So I can see the comparison. I mean, we’re only 29 and 9/10th’s away from Great Depression figures, but why should that matter? Yes…depression…we’re in it. Boob….

  32. 32. TLM

    Ron & Cathy:

    Thanks for the tip on the City Journal article re the demise of the liberal arts curriculum in American colleges. An excellent synopsis by VDH.

    You have to wonder if our current problems aren’t the result of the changes in university education that began 30 plus years ago when the majority of schools dropped Western Civ courses, and the Humanities and Social Science Departments became politicized by agitprofs. Not likely a coincidence we are in the mess we’re in. Those cliched chickens are coming home to roost.

    Now, we’re back to the “It’s the economy, stupid!” And before that it was the war…and before that it was something else. Nowadays, it’s always something, a succession of problems and a litany of failing institutions in this country. Well, maybe the emphasis should not be on the problem de jour, but on the reference to “stupid” in Carville’s statement, i.e. to the generations of Americans who have been stupidified by post modern pedagogy. IMHO, that’s the root cause, and all the other problems are consequences thereof. When they write the postmortem on this society, our failed education system will be seen as the primary cause of death.

    VDH and others have been sounding the alarm on this for years. I’m glad to see that others are listening.

  33. It is Obama’s stealthy Leftism that troubles me the most. Based on his radical associates of the past 20 years you have 2 real options:

    1) Obama is really a pragmatist and was willing to tolerate these extreme views and the support of people like Rev. Wright and Bill Ayers in order to gain political power.

    2) He is a true believer in the ideas of these radicals and will soon begin to do whatever it takes to implement them.

    I find either option troubling. If (1) is true then Obama is willing to tolerate a whole lot of dangerous things in order to get what he wants. If (2) is true, then America as we know it over. Then he holds to a Marxist world view and will seek to realize it by any means necessary. Remember he spent 20 years in a Marxist church, that cannot have left a lasting impression on his thought.

  34. 34. argentinian

    and what happened to your american indians? I have seen many in Mexico and canada (innuit)?

    ah, and look closer. Brazil’s president (inacio “lula” sa silva) is of mixed race. he has been a union leader for most of his adult life, and did not attend university. Brazil did it first!

    By the way, in Argentina most indians mixed (remember, no laws about ethnic marriages?) I’m married to the descendant of american indians and spaniards. he’s brown, i’m white. nobody cares.

    open your mind.

  35. 35. Sarge

    Yep, Obama gets in trouble blame the previous administration, something like blaming Herbert Hoover for the Depression. FDR came in and things did NOT get better until WWII broke out ! (a war economy)
    This from a 84 yr old Combat Vet who seen it all !

  36. 36. Kathy

    Argentinian,
    May I ask if you were taught, as I was when going to 6th-12th grade in Buenos Aires (’68-’74) that Blacks were used as frontline troops in the armies sent to fight for Independence & against Los Indios? I remember asking my Argentine teachers why, unlike Brazil, there were no Blacks around & was told they were mostly killed off fighting ‘native americans’ back in the 1800s. Mutual extermination is what those teachers told me. The Argentine history textbooks we used confirmed this story-line.

    Perhaps things have changed in the last 35 yrs, but a pretty rigid class-structure was in place back in my day, with those of European-descent at the top & middle classes, Mestizos and those of Amerindian ancestry as the bottom – ie: maids, gardeners, laborers etc. Hardly treated as equals by those that used their services, as I recall. The few Asians to be seen (of whatever ethnic ancestry) were simply lumped together as ‘Los Chinos’.

    Funny how ‘Ethnic relations’ go quite smoothly if everyone knows ‘their place’ & stays there not making a fuss.

  37. 37. Bogdan of Australia

    Just a simple albait a bit crude comparison; The US economy resembles a sick fella suffering from syphilis and Obama and the Dems are trying to convince you that the best way to cure him is by infecting him with gonorrhea. One can only imagine what will the state of the fella’s health be like in a few years. Good luck with that…
    Unfortunately, here Down Under we have recently absorbed our own dose of CRETINISM. It is beginning to bring results…

  38. 38. JFM

    Forwiz writes:

    When white families had ten kids or more and an Indian woman was considered prolific if she had three, it’s obvious the numbers game was going in only one direction.

    Excuse me but you re entirely wrong

    First problem: Because it was not a demographic battle ground between Indinasn and the local whites but ebetween them and the caucasians both in the east and in Europe (many of them flocking to the United States) and the total number of Indians was only a hundredth from the number of caucasians. That lead us to ask ourselves why tehre were so few Indcians in a territory who was as large as Europe? See point three

    Second problem/ Because Indian women had as many or more children as the caucasian ones. The problem was that they didn’t survive. In XVIIIth century Europe it was not uncommon for a woman to have over ten children and only two surviving. But feeding, hosuing hygiene and medicine drastically improved between XVIIth and XIXth century so the number of surviving children between caucasians increased dramatically despite slighly decling decundity rates. In the meantime new born Indian babies lived or more exactly died in teepees even when it was minus 20 outside.

    Third problem: There is a very limited number of people who can be sustained through hunting. Had the Indian babies survived at the same rate than caucasian ones, it would have only been to starve later. In order for Indian population being in the same ballpark than west the number of caucasians flocking to the west they would have had to adopt agriculture; That is not woman planting a few seeds whose yield wouldn’t be harvested due to tribe moving away following buffalmo herds but sedentaraizing, man (who are far more productive) working in the fields, use of metal tools and, if at all possible, use of domestic anmals to plow the plough. Demographic growth for Indians depended on agriculture becoming central to their subsistance and way of life with hunting playing only a marginal role. Since they didn’t do it they were doomed to remain numerically inferior to the caucasians and be overwelmed by them.

  39. 39. Richard Gregg

    To: Victor Davis Hansen

    Not sure if this will even get to you, or whether you will even be able to read it among your umpteen e-mails, correspondence etc. Been reading most of your articles with interest, as selections in the Daily Report from the Hoover Institution. Was fortunate to make the acquaintance of George Marotta, a former senior fellow at Hoover, who put me on their daily e-mail list. I met him quite by chance about 12 years ago, and we have been friends ever since.
    There is no question that you are a writer of great ability…your volumes and volumes of books, articles, etc. speak for themselves. Also your perspective spans almost 60 years (just like me..turned 60 on Dec.6) which is greater than most people today. I see you are also a native Californian like me, so you remember a much nicer place once upon a time.
    The problem I see with you is similar to the problem I have with the founding fathers..you are all white supremacists so convinced of your might, your right, your mission to “free the world”, that you don’t notice certain errors in judgement. I have always been intrigued with the obvious conflict between their ideals of “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”…and the fact that they were slave owners ! It’s easy to explain by the fact that their ego and confidence was so strong, they simply felt that they had the right to do whatever they wanted.
    Interesting to see the Daily Report now putting articles in that give the opposite view of the Iraq war, and maybe starting to admit it was a mistake. I kidded George Marotta about this several months ago and said it sounded like people were now starting to get off a “sinking ship”.
    I am one the new breed of multi-cultural people that look at things from a different perspective. My mother was Spanish from El Salvador in Central America, my father was Scottish on his father’s side, Norwegian on his mother’s side. We spent 3 years living in El Salvador when I was a child, with the result that I speak fluent spanish. Our new president is also multi-cultural, something that is becoming more and more common
    I see that you and some other right wing types are already taking the newly elected president to task, even though he still has about 6 weeks to go. My advice is to back off and give him every chance, this country is in big, big trouble. For the last 70 years or so, our federal government has been trying to “legislate happiness” by doing a lot of wrong things, and the day of judgement has arrived. This might be the last chance before things get ugly,…a lot of people are close to the brink. You might think that “it can’t happen here”….but if things get really bad…anything can happen. Might have more..

    Sincerely,

    Richard Gregg

  40. 40. argentinian

    Kathy:
    it is true that many argentine blacks were killed in the wars of independence (1810-1830sh), and many others in the war with Brazil against Paraguay (1865-1870), and many others died due to yellow fever (1870s’ -my grandmother’s grandmother died due to this cause too, as did many poor immigrants). the ones that survived, again, mixed.
    By the time the “conquest of the desert” (it was not a desert, there were indians there) started (1880s) (in patagonia) i am not sure there were many blacks in the army left.
    So it is true many indians in patagonia (the south) were killed by the “conquista del desierto). Indians in the north, west and east mixed.
    regarding class structure: your years in argentina (68-74) coincided with one of the worst military dictatorships (Ongania -levingston-lanusse) I was born in the early 80s, so i cannot really speak for that period.
    due to universal literacy and free (yep, free as you don’t pay) state universities and state-funded health care (no crisis of the uninsured), argentina has a pretty open class structure. (my father is the son of very poor immigrants from europe, and he went to university, etc. my husband is the son of very poor mixed-race cotton-pickers from the north of the country, and he went to university, etc).
    my family never had any “maids or gardeners or laborers” so i can’t say anything about that.

    I love the states. i am studying here for a graduate degree, and i love the fact that it is an immigrant country and an open society. I feel at home here, and I hope you keep it that way. (i lived in the UK, where class structures seem to be set in stone).
    the one thing that makes me sad are the racial issues, and i hate to see generalizations about south american prejudices when I know things regading race relations are much more peaceful in argentina, brazil and uruguay than here.

    again, argentina has tons of problems (in the 60s and 70s, political intolerance. now, poverty of around 25% of the population) but racial issues -luckily- are not one of them.

    my father traveled to the states in the early 60s for work. In Manhattan, he got on a bus and walked towards the back of the bus. a white lady told him to go to the front of the bus (he had no idea. there were no rules about buses, water fountains or bathrooms in argentina. there had never been)

    we don’t check our census boxes for race -i was surprised when i had to do this the first time i applied for a visa for the states (i traveled to disney world at 12). there is no racial group more or less likely to be in jail than other racial groups. we receive immigrants from peru, paraguay and bolivia, and also from asia and former soviet provinces, every day, no questions asked.

  41. 41. Kathy

    Argentinian,
    Thanks for clarify the 1800′s history for me – it’s been alot of years since those history classes. It’s good to know some of it actually got embedded in my head.

    Know what you mean re generalizations about south american prejudices, had the same reaction with generalizations about Los Yankis.

    Yup, those were very disturbing times: armed guards for our front door, my classmate’s fathers getting kidnapped for ransom, Argentine friends becomming ‘Desaparesidos’, Peron & Isabella moving in two blocks away in Vicente Lopez, anti-aircraft gun & armed mounted police right outside my bedroom window….

    However, I also loved being in Argentina & love the Argentines. What great people! And the fooooood, on my what I wouldn’t give for a decent Asado, Bife de lomo, Empanada Criolla, Matambre, Milanesa, Choripan….
    Bottom line questions: is El Palacio de las Papas Fritas still in business after all these years & can one still get Alfajores Jorjito?

  42. 42. argentinian

    Kathy:
    glad you enjoyed your time in Argentina (those were complicated years!)
    el palacio de la papa frita is still in business, but definitely old-fashioned. I went once with my grandparents
    alfajores jorgito: yep, available in every kiosco.

  43. 43. Jack Marcotte

    Essential vdh

    What is so hard about this?! The stock market is not at all sure that investment capital will be any good.–anywhere and anytime soon.

    Under the “enlightened” left wing Dem. congress, a Chicago thug president elect and a less than pathetic lame duck RINO president without a hint of conservative values or backbone, all investors who have literally made this country by investing in what should have been profitable companies (looking at cooked books) are now taking the fall.

    This menagerie of idiots includes members of the Republican party who don’t seem to have any knowledge about what options like Chapter 11 workouts mean and firing the losers who have got us in this mess. This includes the “businessmen” Dems who are politically connected getting a smoke screen shield from Congress. Keeping their bonuses and not going to jail.

    If you bleed from a cut on the hand you apply a tourniquet on the hand. You don’t hook the body up to a blood bank that comes from everyone one else and let the hand bleed. You fix it.

    Who Loses?–By the time everyone of the old boy net work Ivy league idiots who have run these companies into the ground while they have shown only the political connections needed and knowledge needed to cook the books to calculate their bonuses—get done, Who has lost? Investors!! Who has lost—America. What will we lose? America!.

    Who loses in all of these bailouts or the take over of the American (Detroit) based auto industry?– Investors. They have lost twice.

    Investors have lost the value of their stocks, invested capital, and they will pay more in federal tax give away to those who have made the value of their investments disappear. This assumes the investors can still make money and were not retired and living on those investments.

    If you were training your dog not to crap on the floor you would not give him a treat every time he did it.

    That shows you–I would not let Congress even try to train my dog much less take over these companies.

    The stockholders will continue to lose. Why now for gods sake invest hard earned money in the engine of capitalism such as the stock market. It is being dismantled right before our eyes and we don’t seem to recognize it.

    In the name of political correctness we are stabbing ourselves in the back. That is hard to do but it is happening.

    The Auto companies as the current example (others coming) will be owned by the union pension funds–with Government oversight. Under the existing rules of the pension benefit guaranty acts that were put in place over 30 years ago the pension funds come in front of even the owners (stockholders) and bondholders.

    We will now be faced with Congress rewriting bills, including the Constitution to create smoke screens to protect the union takeovers of a dead carcase industry. A new welfare program of high wages created by the greed and corruption of the democratic party paying off the unions for their contributions–and being accomplished with the noodle brained republicans looking on and even participating. Courtesy of our hard earned tax dollars. I have got a bulletin for them. Most parasites are smart enough not to kill the hosts. Our current political leaders seeking government control in the name of “good deeds” are not.

    One wonders what they will be paying Acorn? For stuffing ballet boxes.

    What would be their next target of their stupidity and greed. The non union American Auto industry in the South. They cannot afford to let it be profitable to act as an example that shows their stupidity. Or and any large non union large employer that is profitable and can operate under their own cash flow.(blood)

    What now?! Every man for himself? Or pick up a shovel and join Obama’s public works projects. He wants to be FDR. The idiot MSM thinks he is FDR come back to life.

  44. Personally, I like Doctor Hanson’s discussions of movies. One of the great things about a blog is the open structure. He saw an interesting picture so he discusses it… I’d love to hear VDH’s thoughts on Michael Mann’s ‘HEAT,’ for instance.

    American movies have always carried our culture around the globe, with Westerns being our archetypal representation. When U.S. forces occupied Germany and Japan after WWII, they screened Westerns for the locals. Through these films, the civilians came to understand and to an extent absorb American Values. Look at Kurosawa’s post-war films for that cultural influence.

    I’ve always thought we should broadcast a channel in Iraq – or even Afghanistan – that shows only Westerns dubbed into Arabic and Pashto. Middle Eastern people would identify with the harsh, lawless environment and the efforts to “civilize” it. Most classic American Westerns are fairly modest and less likely to offend Muslim values. They may realize we’re not so different from them, after all.

    People who’ve lived under Saddam or The Taliban would understand and appreciate “The Magnificent Seven” more than I ever could.

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