A Republican president signed Simpson-Mazzoli into law in October 1986. The bill attracted support and opposition from both Republicans and Democrats (it’s even named for the moderate Republican and the moderate Democrat who championed it). Is the Republican Party better off as a result? Please show your work. Because as it turns out, Hispanic leaders in the Democratic Party bitterly opposed Simpson-Mazzoli at the time. Reps. Edward Roybal (D-CA) and Tony Coehlo (D-CA) fought the bill’s penalties on employers who knowingly hired illegal aliens, arguing that those penalties provided an incentive for businesses to refrain from hiring anyone who looked like they might be foreign. Along with Sen. Ted Kennedy of Massachusetts, they demagogued the immigration reform bill that bubbled through Congress across five years as “discriminatory.” Are today’s Democrats more or less likely to similarly demagogue any “comprehensive immigration reform” in order both to water down its security side and to make sure Republicans reap no benefits from passing it?
Again, please show your work.
The fact is, millions of Americans justifiably see any attempt at “comprehensive immigration reform” now as a fraud. The last one was a fraud. Washington has not gotten more honest in the years since 1986, it has arguably gotten less honest. The current Democratic leadership very obviously puts its electoral interests above all other concerns. Identity politics are the glue that holds that party together. Democrats push “comprehensive immigration reform” now largely because they believe it will turn out as the 1986 version has turned out, benefiting their party, and they’re probably right.
There is no quick-fix solution to the GOP’s poor performance with Hispanic voters. Having better candidates and sunnier rhetoric can certainly help, but minting millions more Hispanic voters through amnesty will end up making it more difficult for Republicans to win elections, no matter what role Republicans might play in passing that amnesty. If there is a solution to the GOP’s growing problem with Hispanic voters, it is unlikely to lie in a policy that increases the power of a party that is essentially opposed to the free market and upward mobility. The solution is to articulate values that resonate and create the economic conditions by which millions of Americans of all backgrounds find it easier to pursue and obtain the American dream, and who then realize with Republican messaging that Democratic policies stand in their way. But doing that while a Democrat is in the White House standing on the neck of the U.S. economy and driving poverty and dependence on government to record levels is not likely to happen. Democrats will continue to do things that benefit Democrats. Poverty, dependence, and identity politics all favor Democrats. So we can expect more of all of those, as long as Obama is in the White House.
You are arguing that it can’t get done, not that it shouldn’t be done.
I think you missed the point of the post.
If someone made you emperor for the day, and you could wave your wand and put in solid border security and a permit system for workers and some kind of amnesty for long-term well-behaved illegals so that it happened just as you liked, you don’t think that would take the issue right off the table?
Magic wands don’t feature in serious policy discussions. We don’t get to have Washington as we want it, we have to deal with Washington as it actually exists.
In a word, no; it will not take it off the table. Setting aside issues of whether the hispanic vote is really about immigration (I think its that Central Americans are, as a culture, left-leaning and continue to vote that way when they immigrate), this is not a static issue. It continues as long as a border exists, so that there is no way to “take it off the table.”
So, y’all are saying you don’t want it fixed, that it’s a trap to even think about fixing it? This is absurd. Reagan wanted it fixed, OK his attempt didn’t work. Dubya wanted it fixed, but the Democrats wouldn’t think of it under his administration. Your lesson from this is to give up?
If you guys can’t imagine a good conservative, Republican campaign based on the fixing of this problem, then you – were probably working for Romney.
Yeah sure, no problem ever completely goes away, but so what, we hire politicans and executives in particular, who will try. Politics is the art of the possible. Start assuming things can’t be done, and you just take yourself right out of the game.
Check your reading comprehension, Josh. You said some type of immigration-style amnesty could “take it off the table.” It won’t; it’s been tried in the past and, not surprisingly, the issue still exists. Also, it was Republicans that did it. End result, greater waives of illegal immigration and Hispanics tend to vote Democrat. So, from the fact that *you* were wrong, you infer that *we* don’t want to do anything?
Yes, we do want to do something about immigration, particularly illegal immigration. However, creating another amnesty is a terrible solution. We did it before, during Reagan’s administration. It was supposed to be a one-time shot and it was supposed to fix the problem. The Republican political class rubbed their hands gleefully at the thought that Hispanics would flock to the Republican party. It did not work on either front. We’ve also tried other approaches such as 245i forgiveness of illegal presence. Yet, the problem continues, on and on. Both theoretically and as a matter of history, it does not work. So why continue to talk about it?
Oh, yes, we talk about it because the Democrats want it. They continuously bring it up and try to act like anyone who won’t treat illegals as good as (or better than) people trying to obey the rules is a racist. Why would that be? Because, contrary to the self-deluded conservative meme, Central American cultures tend to be leftist politically speaking. There is no brooding Hispanic conservative majority waiting to be acknowledged by Republicans. Instead, there are thousands of leftist voters (who have minor SoCon tendencies regarding gay rights, etc.), some of whom wish to return the border states to Mexico (La Raza anyone?), waiting to be enrolled, taking away some critical red states and solidifying a blue majority in others. While we are hurtling toward a welfare state, we are talking about adding millions of lower-income citizens to our rosters. While it’s a progressive’s dream because it broadens their base and hooks them to the government, solidifying their political gains, it will be disaster for the country.
Here’s a novel idea. Fix the system, which is patchwork of laws with no real coherence or overarching structure. But don’t reward those who flouted our laws.
I simply LOVE the “in theory” argument of Progressive Socialists. They’re the first ones to seek out a comprehensive plan, because “in theory” one could work.
In practice, they don’t. If you are such a genius that you KNOW we could find a way, then explain to me why it hasn’t already happened. And to your childish point, “You are arguing that it can’t get done, not that it shouldn’t be done.”, that’s exactly the point.
If it can’t be done, we shouldn’t waste our time on it. We should spend our time efficiently, seeking a solution – or a partial solution – that gets us as close as we can.
Partial solutions are the solution. You improve through iterative process improvement. No one can forsee all the potential flaws in a plan. That’s why comprehensive plans always fail. You make a change and test it. If the test shows success, you build on that success. If the test fails, you back up and try something different, using the knowledge you’ve just learned.
That’s the logical approach. It’s “logical”, because it makes sense. Your approach is scattershot. It expends a lot of time, energy, and money in a hopeful attempt to foresee all possible problems and outcomes. There’s no learning, no knowledge, only conjecture and conceit.
– written, it led to the creation of Mexifornia, the best-run state in the union.
I really hinges on what Comprehensive Immigration Reform entails, but if it’s code word for Amnesty and pathway to voting rights citizenry, then it is the pathway to permanent disempowerment for generations.
It’s always code for “amnesty”, because doing what’s right is really hard. Doing what’s wrong is really easy.
Let’s comprimise. You put forth all the effort to dilligently police our entire southern border. I’ll agree to give those who make it across anyway free stuff.
WHAT A DEAL! What could possibly go wrong? Certainly, we’ve balanced the incentive to cross the border for free stuff with enforcement, haven’t we? Isn’t it a net neutral?
Well, I’m positive that’s how it plays our in real life. Just tell the border patrol to “step up enforcement”. That’ll do.
It’s always code word for Amnesty, indeed.
Hey, we can hire former disrespecters of US sovereignty, now dual citizenship Mexican Nationals to secure the border. That way they get good paying jobs with Federal government benefits, to boot!
It’s a win, win, for the colonists!
The GOP should scrap their existing legislation and plans. Start over, giving the democrats the responsibility of coming up with the border control element and the GOP takes the “pathway” element — dependent of course, upon the success of the democrats border secuity plan over the next 5-10 years. For each year the democrats border control plan lowers the breach by some percentage point, an inkind percentage of illegals will get a “pathway’ to citizenship starting with the children of illegals who have completed college or served beyond their obligated service time. The parents of these children can earn only legal immigrant status.
Now thats constructive compromise!
Well, except that children born in the US are US citizens, illegal parents or not.
Thanks! I’m not a literary kinda guy but I do see it was poorly constructed. I fully meant to be addressing the particular childrens parents as being able to earn a pathway to legal allien resident status
The solution is to articulate values that resonate and create the economic conditions by which millions of Americans of all backgrounds find it easier to pursue and obtain the American dream
…That’s a solution? It sounds like a load of high falutin’ waffle welded to a can of wusass the GOP will kick into the next decade. First, try winning an election by finding a candidate who doesn’t look and sound like a marionette and who has the courage and wits to explain the need for secure borders. Problem there: the blind lead the blind, again.
Er, I meant to put my handle on that.
I believe that the Hispanic voters will blow up in the democrats face. They are harder to get to vote as a block than are blacks. For one reason Hispanics tend to assimilate better into the population rather than being locked into ghettos as are blacks. Plus at some point blacks and Hispanics will be at each others throats due to competing for the same political power.
The real problem is that the establishment republicans look just like democrats. It is one party, two teams. Libertarians love to point this out.
Wrong, wrong, wrong. Did you look at any of the swing states and their voter turnout? The Dems have the Hispanic voted tied up, thanks to identity-based coalition building. That part is over.
Exactly. There is a thought that the Hispanic voters are hypnotized by the Democratic party and just need to realize that they are really Republicans. They are not. They vote Democratic because they are leftists. Just look at the governments of Central and South America. The predominate culture is leftist. Believe me, the Democrats realize this and chuckle every time a Republican claims that they are, generally and culturally,right-of-center.
You didn’t oversimplify. Progressives (led by Teddy Kennedy – the man who killed America as we knew it) use immigration to change demographics in their favor. Amnesty will boost their voter base to an unbeatable level.
Republicans will get zero lift from immigration reform, just as they got nothing from the Reagan amnesty. Those most likely to vote Right will be the ones most hurt by reform, so it may even reduce voter engagement from immigrants sympathetic to American founding principles.
Thanks Bryan Preston for stating what seems obvious: More legalization of illegals is not good for the USA.
The only thing that will stop the continuous attempt to shove down our throats another fricking amnesty is the coming economic collapse. When there is not enough food to feed your family you can bet that the illegals in our midst will decide to self deport simply as a matter of survival. I just wish they could take the editorial board of the Wall Street Journal, the neo-con fraternity, Karl Rove, and the Bush family with them. And by the way, I would not even mind if Mccain and Romney left as well. When you are hungry, you do not have enough time to be stupid.
Out of curiosity are the lefty blogs all atwitter about this problem? Why not? What do you want to bet that part of the GOP image problem with pretty much everybody outside of flyover country is the constant bitching? You bitch about abortion. You bitch about taxes. You bitch about takers, handouts, and blacks in general. You bitch about immigrants and minorities in general. Poor us, we’re being targeted because we’re white males. And so on. It’s a constant screech with the only variance being whether the dial is set to 10 or 11.
In other news, we just lost the election, and you’re surprised. Yeah, who could have guessed that?
It’s a trap? Well, isn’t that something. Usually, conservatives never see the traps laid by their opponents…until it’s much too late to do anything about it.
Of course, this particular trap was laid a long, long, time ago…and you saw it, when? Just now?
Gee! Congratulations on that…uh…er…well done.
To progressives, they see everything as political. Conservatives are at a disadvantage because their natural inclination is to believe that everything isn’t political. That means, many times, conservatives do not even realize they are in a struggle, while progressives are working to advance their cause. We’re forever bringing a knife to a gun fight.
The idiocy of treating immigration as the “hispanic issue” should be obvious.
To begin with, there are millions of hispanic Americans who are not immigrants, nor descendants of immigrants: Puerto Ricans.
My opinion is that if Republicans adopted the hard line on immigration (close the borders, deport all the illegals), a lot of Puerto Rican hispanics would be delighted. They are U.S. citizens who mostly work in low-skill occupations, and they are seriously hurt by competition from illegals. And they don’t have any great “ethnic” solidarity with Mexicans.
Then there are Cuban-Americans. Are they enthusiasts for Mexican immigration? Hardly.
Not even all Mexican-Americans are pro-open borders. There are third- and fourth- and tenth-generation Mexican-Americans who don’t want the U.S. (and their own communities) overrun.
But liberals have it framed. Any objection to continued mass immigration, even to illegal immigration, is RACIST! And there are too many open-borders libertarians, businessmen who hire illegals, and Ellis-Island-nostalgists among Republicans and conservatives to put up a fight.
We’re doomed.
Wait till the big wave of new African immigration hits. (By 2050, most “black” Americans will be first- to third-generation African immigrants.) They will bring with them all the social pathologies of present day Africa: violence, political corruption, superstition, endemic STDs, and more.
LEAST WE FORGET THE THOUSANDS SLAUGHTERED BY ILLEGAL ALIENS ANNUALLY.
Over the first two year period, Nov. 4, 2012 will mark the National Remembrance Day for those killed by illegal migrants and immigrants. The National Remembrance Day was conceived by the Tea Party Immigration Coalition (TPIC) and last year, Rep. Steve King (R-IA) announced his sponsorship of a declaration making the first Sunday of every November the day we honor those Americans killed by illegal aliens. These numbers are in the hundreds of thousands, from drunken drivers, female assaults to child molesters. These daily occurrences hardly ever hit the headlines, because the Liberal media suffocates the facts to the general public. For far too long, we have sat around and watched as our fellow citizens die every year at the hands of illegal aliens, while our elected officials simply ignore the ever-growing crisis. The federal government does not keep comprehensive statistics (may be intentionally) on the number of crimes committed in this country by illegal aliens. On November 3, Rep. King, stood in silence just outside the Capitol building with Congressman Walter Jones, activists Jeff Lewis and TPIC founder John Stahl stood alongside Jamiel Shaw Sr.( a California athlete shot because he was dressed in the wrong colors) and Ray Tranchant My 16-year-old daughter, Tessa, was killed by a drunken illegal alien in Virginia Beach three years ago while sitting at a stop light (both of whom lost their children to the uncontrolled and even murderous actions of illegal aliens) and said:
“These are real human misery stories, where there’s real hurt and real agony going on a daily basis in the United States of America, and we treat it as if it’s just some kind of acceptable disruption of our lives. It’s not. It’s an interruption of innocent lives that takes place because we have years of administrations that refuses to enforce immigration law.” Even before the Obama administration little was done to cauterize the murderous rampage of foreign nationals in our nation. For those lost, there are no wreath-laying ceremonies, no flag lowering or community congregations. For those families who are left behind truly suffer in silence. Perhaps if one of the immediate family members of politicians was slaughtered on the highway, or one of their children disappeared or a spouse was attacked, then they would expedite the right laws to stop these hideous travesties. Let us see how quick Democrat majority leader Harry Reid would fly into legislative action if on a Nevada highway he was holding in his bloody hands his injured daughter or GOP speaker of the House John Boehner, that one of two daughters was assaulted in Cincinnati, Ohio.
BEFORE PRESIDENT OBAMA PUSHES A PATH TO CITIZENSHIP FOR ALL ILLEGAL ALIENS ALREADY HERE, WITHOUT THESE POLICIES. THEN BE PREPARED TO BE PAY MORE TAX MONEY AND EVEN BE AWARE OF A GUARANTEED ONSLAUGHT FROM ACROSS THE WORLD OF OUR LAX ENFORCEMENT IMMIGRATION SYSTEM?
BEFORE ANY PASSAGE OF IMMIGRATION REFORM FINDS ITS WAY THROUGH THE COMATOSED CONGRESS, TWO BILLS ARE A ESSENTIAL TO EVENTUALLY STOP THE INGRESS OF ANY MORE FLOWS OF HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. 1. THE LEGAL WORKFORCE ACT CONTAINING MANDATORY E-VERIFY AND HALT ILLEGAL ALIENS TAKING JOBS AND HOLDING EMPLOYERS ACCOUNTABLE. 2. A SIMPLE AMENDMENT TO END THE BIRTHRIGHT CITIZENSHIP BILL TO STEM THE INFLOW OF SMUGGLED BABIES EITHER UNBORN OR AS AN INFANT, INTO THE UNITED STATES TO GAIN INTENTIONAL RIGHTS TO BE A CITIZEN AND A MASSIVE FINANCIAL BURDENING THE U.S. TAXPAYER. 3. THE REINTRODUCTION OF FORMER PRESIDENT BUSH 2006 SECURE FENCE ACT IN ITS ENTIRETY. THIS IS A DOUBLE PARALLEL FENCE STRETCHING ALONG THE BORDER OF THE U.S STATES AND ITS SOUTHERN NEIGHBOR. AMERICA MUST REDUCE SANCTUARY CITIES, CHAIN MIGRATION, DREAM ACT LAWS AND THE ILLEGAL ALIEN INVASION. 4. A FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ISSUED PICTURE ID CARD, WHICH CONTAINS INFORMATION TO USE IN PROVING WHO YOU ARE?