The NSDAP with a crescent instead of a swastika: Andrew Bostom’s indispensable book
It would be inaccurate to call Islamism a Nazi-influenced ideology, for Islam itself was there before Nazism. Both ideologies are neo-pagan responses to Judaism and Christianity. Writing two decades before Karl Barth, the Jewish theologian Franz Rosenzweig characterized Islam as a pagan parody of revealed religion, and Allah as the whole colorful pantheon of paganism rolled up into a single deity.
If the world is in greater need of reminder than instruction, as the late Fr. Richard Neuhaus liked to say, Dr. Bostom has assembled a set of reminders that are chilling, even for those of us who are steeped in these issues. We tend to forget how open, obvious, and uncontroversial the relationship between National Socialism and the Muslim Brotherhood has been from the 1940s onward. Bostom quotes John Roy Carlson’s interviews with Muslim Brotherhood founder Hassan al-Banna during 1948-1950:
It became clear to me [wrote Carlson] why the average Egyptian worshiped the use of force. Terror was synonymous with power! This was one reason why most Egyptians, regardless of class or calling had admired Nazi Germany. It helped explain the sensational growth of the Ikhwan el Muslimin [Muslim Brotherhood].
Sharia vs. Freedom deserves lengthier discussion, but it requires urgent mention right now considering the rising Muslim Brotherhood threat to Western interests.
Writing two decades before Karl Barth, the Jewish theologian Franz Rosenzweig characterized Islam as a pagan parody of revealed religion
This reminds me of the remark (I think it was T S Eliot’s) “Our literature is a substitute for religion—so is our religion.” We could substitute politics for religion, and the remark would still hold water. It isn’t just Islam (and I mean to make no apology for it here). As Arthur Schopenhauer pointed out long before Hitler or any of his 20th Century competitors, Puritanism also entails a belief that the political arena is where religion either succeeds or fails. Secularism only adds the conviction that this world is the only one. If that is so, then only in this world can “salvatiion” mean anything, and if that is son in turn, then no violence or cruelty is too much to bring it about—where the “it” in that sentence is the proletarian paradise or the Thousand Year Reich or whatever else is on offer.
Karl Barth (may the angels remember to bless him) uses the word “religion” in a sense of his own; sometimes in the Church Dogmatics (see especially §17, The Revelation of God as the Aolition of Religion) he discusses it as the great idolatrous and homicidal antagonist of “faith”. Faith in his terms is no human potential, good or evil, but an act of God upon man, sometimes to his consternation, sometimes to his glory, sometimes to martyrdom, —might be anything at all. A free man is frightening enough to many people; a free God can scare the bejezus out of them.
Thanks. People use religion for worldly purposes and kill it then and there.
I think Islam is just another iteration of worship of the Lord of Forces, and in its way demands willing human sacrifice by it followers.
It is nice to flee responsibility, and Islam is a by-word for that. People in the US like it too. We spend a huge portion or our wealth to have others decide the things we should decide for ourselves, pace Locke.
This will end the same way as Benghazi for Obama. I guess he counts on the stupidity of the public and the collusion of the press. Seems to have worked so far in Eurasia with the help of the ruling elites. The barbarians are at the gates, especially with Morsi’s guarantees for the “peace” in Gaza.
Andrew Bostom surely is a top ‘go to’ address, detailing what is in store for westerners (and Middle East countries in its bomb sights) if they are forced to live under the boot of Shariah. Holy smokes. To call it mind numbing is an understatement. Head chopping is an all too real eventuality.
Will check out his book.
And there is a font of evidence to prove the above claims – http://adinakutnicki.com/2012/09/09/shariah-law-enforcers-continue-unimpeded-westerners-terrified-to-counter-them-the-redgreen-alliance-assures-their-eventual-western-triumph-if-not-stopped-commentary-by-adina-kutnicki/
To call it terrifying, chilling, and any other adjective which evokes ones scariest nightmares, is hardly an understatement!
Forewarned is forearmed. Any many are issuing alarm bells!
“The cry of revolt against such a god [a god which just affirms the world as it is] is nearer the truth than is the sophistry with which men attempt to justify him…”
Karl Barth
in desert like conditions , austerity , read Joshua 7 , one man’s greed sin made the entire nation God’s enemy until repentance was found
yikes!
“God judges the righteous to the point of the breadth of a hair”. But this is so they can earn as much reward as possible. God created this world so people would not be on welfare, but would have the free will to earn their reward.
They were not God’s enemy but he had to bring them back in.
This is why people misread the Bible and think the Jews were bad people. They don’t realize the standard by which they were being judged.
Not so. Each man is accountable only for his own sin. read ezekiel, chapters 18 and 33. Libelling God is as dumb as it gets. best shape up, pal!
Of course suspending the judiciary will do zero to solve any of Egypt’s problems. It will pave the way for more Islam by decree however. This will also do nothing to solve Egypt’s problems. Loans from an idiotic West, which confuses voting with law, liberty and even pro-western sentiment, will keep them going however. If they can pull Syria into their camp, war with Israel is assured. That is simply their only option, as more Islam will produce absolutely nothing by way of prosperity or fairness. Once you ban bikinis, alcohol, co-ed anything, there is nothing else to do. If they get the Western loans, look to see if they go on a weapons shopping spree.
As I’m sure you are aware, MANY prominent Orthodox Jewish rabbis in Berlin supported the Nazis and fascism in its early days. Islam doesn’t have a monopoly on religious fascism. Although one could say they have a strong market share.
The point is not that some Muslims find fascism appealing. The point is that Islam *is* religious fascism.
Thenachash should know we are not aware of his “fact” about Berlin’s Orthodox rabbis, because it’s false. More than likely, Thenachash, the snake that he/she/it is, also knows it’s false.
Bob Miller,
Actually I first became aware of this FACT reading Spenglers column, quoting an old friend of mine Professor Marc Shapiro! Sadly it is VERY TRUE! When i saw him speak all the deluded people in the synagogue (like you) were outraged that he would say such things. Too bad its true! You need to wake up and you also need to apologize to me!
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/EL09Aa01.html
And Steve, you are only deluding yourself if you think that Islam IS fascism and Judaism and Christianity are not. Given the power and ability the Charidim would put every “stranger” in the Holy Land in an oven. Look at how they treat the Christian Seminary students or even little orthodox girls who are not religious enough! Religious institutions are no different than than every other fascist institution. Dissent is met with EXTREME PREJUDICE. Look at how the church protect pedophiles! It no different. Its teh “institution uber allas” Islam is only more brutal because they are by and large stupid and poor and more primitive.
And by the way, there is all this talk about making the Charidim serve in the IDF. They better be careful what they wish for. One day they will wake up and realize that they could take over the whole military and it will happen.
Make no mistake. charidim have the same brutal nastiness found in ALL religious people. They have just learned to behave themselves through centuries of humiliation due to their small numbers.
And btw Spengler,
After we met and had that argument about this same concept…that is Islam being uniquely incompatible with freedom I met Marc and mentioned our discussion. I said to him that he needs to explain the “limits of orthodoxy” to you because you think Islam is incompatible with the modern world. His response…”He is right! Do you think Charidim are compatible with the modern world?” Haha! Marc was always a smart guy! Sorry Spengler, I am your biggest fan. But your understanding of the religious Jewish institution is just delusional. I will tell you again, its a different deal when you are a successful secular person in the Upper East Side joining the crowd later in life than when you grow up with the stuff. And btw, Upper east Side Jews DONT fall into this category. You need to spend a Shabbos in Burrough Park or Williamsburg to get a better idea. Believe me, their form of Judaism is every bit as fascist as Islam. But they have just been civilized by western civilization and have to behave themselves given their small numbers.
I lived in Israel for seven years and I never met anyone who wanted to put a stranger in an oven. Moreover, although there is certainly prejudice among the religious towards the non-religious and non-Jews, I never met any haredi with a program of taking power and of conquest and domination. I certainly never met a haredi who glorified military culture. There was no one I met who imagined and hoped that the future would be a boot stomping on a face – forever. Maybe I was sheltered. As for those who show no respect for the culture around them, they are bullies but they have no program. They need an ass-kicking to put it bluntly. But overwhelmingly I did not meet bullies, I met people who wanted to be left alone, albeit often while demanding benefits from the State. FYI, I grew up in an Orthodox household but am utterly hiloni and I had my issues with the haredim, mostly regarding army service and yeshiva benefits. Fascism was not the problem. I am sorry you have been so scarred by your exposure to the seedy underbelly of anything that you cannot see the difference between normative Jewish culture and Islam as a “civilization”.
Well said, Steve. Excellent commentary and analysis.
Steve,
Every statement you made is either contradictory or betrays a complete lack of knowledge of Judaism. Your lack of knowledge makes me question your orthodox pedigree.
“I lived in Israel for seven years and I never met anyone who wanted to put a stranger in an oven. ”
I guess you never met any settlers!
Moreover, although there is certainly prejudice among the religious towards the non-religious and non-Jews, I never met any haredi with a program of taking power and of conquest and domination.
Are you joking? Have you never heard of Meir Kahane? And if you wanna knpw the source of Kahane’s fascism just look in the book of Joshua! Did u ever read it? Or were you one of those Orthodox students who knew nothing about the Torah and halacha?
I certainly never met a haredi who glorified military culture. There was no one I met who imagined and hoped that the future would be a boot stomping on a face – forever.
Again hows about the settlers? You must be delusional!
“Maybe I was sheltered.”
Clearly. More importantly I suspect coming from an Orthodox background, you probably never expressed any dissent to those in power. Hahah! Try questioning the basic elements of faith and see what the response is….EXTREME PREJUDICE!
“As for those who show no respect for the culture around them, they are bullies but they have no program. They need an ass-kicking to put it bluntly.”
Damn straight! Sadly most people just want to make excuses and marginalize this behavior. The resuly is that it is getting WORSE…not better!
“But overwhelmingly I did not meet bullies, I met people who wanted to be left alone, albeit often while demanding benefits from the State.”
Hahah! Perfect point! They need to be bribed into submission with handouts. Otherwise they get restless. Just like any other group of idiots like the left wing or Muslims. Get in between their handouts (or power)and you will find out the REAL nature of these people.
“FYI, I grew up in an Orthodox household but am utterly hiloni and I had my issues with the haredim, mostly regarding army service and yeshiva benefits. Fascism was not the problem.”
Again, that is because you never expressed dissent!
“I am sorry you have been so scarred by your exposure to the seedy underbelly of anything that you cannot see the difference between normative Jewish culture and Islam as a “civilization”.”
Just another clasic response from the knee jerk reaction of crushing people who dissent with personal attacks. Well let me just remind you that you yourself said these people need a good ass kicking. I can tell you this problem is getting WORSE not better!
My whole point in this discussion is NOT that I am defending Islam. Far from it. I WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree with this statement. However it is beyond delusional to say that Islam EXCLUSIVELY is incompatible with a liberal free society. The same can be said for Judaism. To the extent that Judaism limits its conquests to the land of Israel. So if you want to say Judaism is marginally less fascist I will agree. But wake up. All the primitive stuff in Islam can be found in Judaism:
Whats the punishment for rape in the Jewish bible? Forced marriage!!!! Women in the bible are forbidden to give legal testimony! Actually just read this column by Yossi Sarid and tell me Judaism is more enlightened than Islam!
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/orthodox-judaism-treats-women-like-filthy-little-things-1.404505
The fact is that ALL religion is generally fascist and incompatible with the modern world. The difference is JEWS (NOT JUDAISM) have been exposed to western civilization and centuries of humiliation have taught them to behave themselves. And in the process of getting wealthy through centuries of humiliation they have learned to put their primitivity behind them. Well at least control it better. But given the chance and the power and some time and they have the same fascist tendencies.
ALL religion has a real problem. They are ALL based on magic! Whether its a virgin birth, splitting the sea or whatever. The fact is that with matters of religion and faith, you cant get empirical proof. Its not happening! This is an existential threat to ALL religion. Modernity is essentially a threat to all religions based on magic. The clergy know this. Most (not all) clergy members of all faiths are threatened by this. And Judaism is no exception. Try questioning the creation of the world in 6 days to an Orthodox person who has power over you. If they can they will CRUSH u!
And I make this point about Islam not being the exclusively fascist religion because the flip side of this argument is that by getting rid of Islam we will solve the problems of the Muslim world. What a load of crap. The Muslim world could convert to Judaism tommorow and they woule be the same illiterate, poor, misoginistic, homophobic, fanatical fascists. Actually I think western civilization has MUCH to learn from the Muslims. Dont be so sure of our eternal domination of the world. In many ways we are just like the Muslims. They ruled the world without challenge for a loooong time! It was only when they started believing their own dogmatic and rhetorical BS that they headed downhill to become the pile of crap that they are now. If we keep believing out own BS we will meet the same end.
No apology. To me it’s quite clear that these rabbis wrote (misguidedly) not out of conviction but to salvage whatever they could with their mortal enemy already in command.
Naming yourself the nachash gave your gig away. You’re out to defame us, as evidenced in your other twisted comments, too.
Bob Miller,
“To me it’s quite clear that these rabbis wrote (misguidedly) not out of conviction but to salvage whatever they could with their mortal enemy already in command. ”
WRONG!!!! Maybe you should try reading his book before you comment. Actually the rabbis were quite enamored with the idea of fascism! They spoke of a “SPIRITUAL FASCISM” that was desirable! And thenachash was a nickname since (yeshiva) high school and it had NOTHING to do with my values but rather the size of a certain appendage! Its actually a long story and too hard to explain in this brief space. Haha!
But you (and MZK who I will address in a moment) have proven my point. You personally called me a liar saying I was making something up. When confronted with the ugly truth about the fascist tendencies of famous rabbis you say I am just an evil snake! Very good job proving my point. DISEENT IS MET WITH EXTREME PREJUDICE! Protect the sacred institution. So what if it is incompatible with modern society. So what if it indicated a sick fascist tendency of Jewish RELIGIOUS leaders. Instead of calling THEM rabbis out, you call me a snake! Well done!
As a chareidi, you have it exactly backwards. We are the last people who want to run things. In fact, recently when my party wanted to support a certain law, their head rabbi told them they could not, because it would involve taking property from Arabs and violate the prohibition on stealing. (I think the law covered cases where property had been taken without realizing there was an owner, and had already been developed.
The Chereidi parties are not nationalist, and so are more moderate. But we aren’t stupid; we see that the “peace process” backfired.
Marc Shapiro is a bitter, fanatical, extremist Jewish Studies professor.
MZK,
“Marc Shapiro is a bitter, fanatical, extremist Jewish Studies professor.”
Once again DISSENT is met with EXTREME PREJUDICE. Proving my point once again that if charidim had the numbers and the power they would put all the DISSENTERS in an oven. Teach em a lesson. What did the fanatical rabbis do to possibly the greatest philosophical mind in history, namely Spinoza? Cherem! They would have killed him if they had their own kingdom!
Just for your information. Marc Shapiro is ORTHODOX and I can assure you that he had more cumulative knowledge of torah in his junior high school years that you can ever hope to have in your entire life. But thats what makes the Orthodox fanatics the most pissed off. Intelligent DISSENT from one of there own is the most dangerous threat to their power base. Lets put him in an oven also. Shut him up for good that way.
A simple proof that someone doesn’t know what he is talking about is when he blames the Chareidim, specifically, for some political issue. There is a reason that we don’t use the use the words “left” and “right” in Israel is because they don’t work. We Chareidim are rather right wing because we aren’t blinded by the religion of Leftism, but we are more moderate than some of the Religious Zionists (Dai Leumi), simply because we aren’t Zionists. Basically, we follow the choice more likely to get less people killed.
Similarly, the religious Zionists are at least as interested as we are, I think more so, in keeping out Reform and civil marriage – the actual issue is really divorce, because we all understand this will split the Jewish people into two groups that cannot intermarry. The reason the Reform go after the Chareidim is because they are unpopular, and they know how to use hate. Similarly the fanatic secularists like the guy above.
Borough Park and Williamsburg are one thing. The Upper East Side, or even Crown Heights (where I have spent Shabbos), not to mention Lakewood N.J., are another. While you complain about Charedim in the IDF, roughly half the officers hail from Dati Leumi. Most Hasidism rejects modernity (many of our Brooklyn mishpucha won’t even speak English rather than Yiddish). Alla ellos, as the Spanish say. There are deeply religious currents that deal quite well with modernity. As for growing up with the stuff: there’s a big difference between, say, Ramaz and a Hasidic yeshiva. Why so pessimistic? Come daven with us at KJ. There’s almost always a cholent kiddush.
Im well aware that there are many Datim that are officers in the IDF. Actually according to a Haaretz article I read a while ago the number was more like 1/3. But you know as well as me that comparing Datim to Charidim is like comparing the UES to Burrogh Park! And the fact that much of your (am my) family dont speak English comes from the top down. As an aside i can tell you that it appears that the Charidim in Borrough Park seem to be giving up their vows of poverty and are educating themselves in the professions, but it is not changing their fanaticism. Actually it is having the opposite effect. Their new found wealth is only reinforcing their notion of divine selection.
Yes their is a big difference between Ramaz and Cheder. Starting with Ramaz is on the UES!!! Thanks for the invite, I would love to meet up with you in shul and “enlighten” you to the seedy underbelly of Orthodoxy! But actually shul is a case of been there done that for me! I tell this to all those who are returning for the faith…I had more cumulative hours davening by the third grade than you have probably had in your lifetime…and I skipped 2nd grade! Sorry but actually, shul is against my religion!
I just cant handle the shared spirituality. Although i did find Rabbi Mark Wild on the West Side much less distasteful than most other rabbis! And for me, if the cost of a good chulent means attending davening…well I can buy my own dinner. And actually, I am quite skeptical about the chulent on the UES! If u want a REAL chulent, then you really do wanna go to Burrogh Park! I will give the Charidim their due…they make a mean chulent and the BEST pareve deserts! Too bad but I really try to avoid carbs!
Oh and my pessimism (maybe even bordering on hostility) comes from my first hand experiences!
Cheers!
Ugh! How blind you are! Your problem isn’t with Orthodoxy, per se, it’s with jerks.
You have to understand that in most cases it’s PEOPLE who are the problem. People who are merely misguided can be schooled and reasoned with because they are sincere and want to get at the truth.
Those who willfully misinterpret to gain power over others is the real problem.
lolly,
“Ugh! How blind you are! Your problem isn’t with Orthodoxy, per se, it’s with jerks.
You have to understand that in most cases it’s PEOPLE who are the problem. People who are merely misguided can be schooled and reasoned with because they are sincere and want to get at the truth.
Those who willfully misinterpret to gain power over others is the real problem.”
Thanks you lolly! That is my EXACT point. Similarly, the problem is NOT Islam. Its the idiot Muslims! My point is that ALL religions give the fanatical fringes of their flock the fanatical thread with which to hang themselves. Its how the PEOPLE choose to use it that matters. Muslims are by and large poor, stupid and primitive. Whats really worse is they are empowered to believe their own BS by their large numbers. Like a bunch of idiot frat boys in a crowd. They are just a society at the tail end of its decline. Do some extrapolating of where US will be in 300 years given OUR current trajectory. Dont assume we will be better.
The Jewish PEOPLE have learned to behave themselves throughout the milenia. thats because we had the privilege of living in some enlightened societies. Had we had our own kingdom with hundreds of millions of millions of peasants led by a bunch of charidim, we would be the same idiots like todays Muslims
Here’s another proof of your dishonesty, “Whats the punishment for rape in the Jewish bible? Forced marriage!!!!”
It’s forced marriage of the man, not the woman. The Talmud is explicit about that. Rape is treated as assault, and has the same penalties, besdies the requiremetnt he marry her. This I would think is a very modern view. However, it was very difficult in those days for an unmarried woman, and a non-virgin could have a hard time finding a husband, so the as given this option. If she doesn’t agree he has to pay her the standard alimony payment for a virgin, amd in any case has to pay her compensation for damage, pain, and embarrassment.
A secular Israeli court covicteda man of raping of wife – based on Jewish law! It seems the Western law did not at the time allow a man to be convocted for forcing himeself on his wife.
But do they add Romanian salami to the cholent?
Heaven forbid! This is a Litvak shul.
your loss … a small taste of Olam Ha-Ba
Actually, in Israel it’s the more “extreme”, the Chasidim, who go out and work. In some cases, the Rebbi will insis they leave yeshiva after a couple of years (less time than college). However, since their wives generally do not (no appropriate places, unlike the US), it still shows up in the official statistics as half not working. It’s more “moderate”, Litvaks like myself, who stay in Yeshiva until circumstances make it impossible. (I’m a senior computer programmer, largely because I never had much ambition and so was not successful enough in my Yeshiva studies.)
Of course, this doesn’t fit into the neat little picture of the “ultra-Orthodox” people like to paint. Then again, the New York Times in the Forties referred to the Religious Zionists as ultra-Orthodox. Do a search – you will be quite surprised. Anyone they disagree with is “ultra-Orthodox”.
Another book that furthers this discussion — L. Murawiec’s “Mind of Jihad.” Goes into ideological/historical/political links of jihadis w/nazis + commies, but takes the history and impetus for the ideology further back in time and in its sociological/psychological dimension. Fascinating and useful, thought it may be of interest here to those not aware of it.
Murawiec’s book is excellent. Sadly, he died shortly after it was published. Still, it’s interesting to contrast the approach taken by Murawiec, Paul Berman and others (modern Islamism is influenced by modern totalitarian movements) and Karl Barth’s startling statement that Nazism is a new kind of Islam (neo-paganism).
As an aside – the “bad Orthodox Jew” discussion here is reminiscent of any argument that claims all “X” people are bad because, out of all the “X” people, some of them exhibit bad behaviors.
It is a facile argument without merit which is often used by disgruntled members who were formerly “X.”
In the same vein, I am interested in why any analyst looks at any nominally Muslim or Arab “movement” and believes that it is somehow a “unified” movement.
The Nazis created their “unity” by killing off their own disparate elements and eliminating or terrorizing anyone who disagreed with their philosophies. That took a lot of killing and eliminating and terrorizing on their part.
The Arab/ Muslim world has been practicing the same kind of behaviors over the last one hundred years. There has been a massive sectarian civil war in the Arab – Muslim world where millions have been slaughtered in the Name of the Flavor of their particular death cult religious or secular philosophy.
Any supposed agreements or unity they have achieved have been localized and, comparatively speaking, extremely short lived. The main goal of any Arab or Muslim leader is to shore up his power base at the expense of all of the other factions; tribes; clans; philosophies; cults; etc. that abound.
As they are ALL engaged in these power seeking behaviors, there is a snowball’s chance that any one faction – be it in Egypt or elsewhere, will ever garner enough support or power to be an actual danger to the two main unified powers of Israel or the United States.
How could there be? There are two many of their “brother’s” eagerly waiting in the wings to eliminate their rivals and establish their own imaginary “Caliphate.”
Think of it as the National Socialist German Workers’ Party (NSDAP in German) with a crescent instead of a Swastika.
Hitler enjoyed the benefits of German science, engineering and manufacturing. On the other hand, Morsi benefits from the time hardened and battle proven wherewithal of a 1,400 year old belief system. A perpetual motion machine that Rube Goldberg would envy, were he not executed first for being a dirty jew.
On an historical scale, Moslems have outperformed the short-lived Nazis, and will continue to do so.
Isn’t the Ba’ath party closer to Nazism? And the philosophy wasn’t even created by an Arab or a Muslim!
Come let us reason
Look how God call a murderer Moses than another Murderer Saul of Taurus and sure good christian would flee from Saul with tail between their legs even after God burn his eyes out of his head because they still did not trust him so this saying: by their fruits you will recognize them has a time element program because before the founding of the world God chose Moses and before the founding of the world God chose Saint Paul so they begin to change stutter or thorns in the side or in need of hip replacement operation this worm Jacob after wrestle with and angel I feel I need knee replacement operation after I wrestle with angel during hurricane Sandy when i became frisky with just one peak at the great beauty of Queen of Sheba WOW she give me a statue of herself and this leap off the table and hit my big tongue to get my attention after i reject her wet dream but I pray God will heal me soon
and do not forget what happen to the sons of thunder brothers when Jesus put the rings of power on their fingers(the dragon call out to me happy I share this one to not judge for frisky with thunder and lighting show causing 100,000+ human flesh to flee with tail between legs never mind all the other chain pulling i do to get dragon to behave) yes so Jesus sons of thunder want to bomb to nothing a town who would not listen to Jesus how power goes to the head which brings me to Islam Mohammad . Did the angel Gabriel come to him ?
What shocked me when I began to find out the first thing I see is the cave picture right here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cave_Hira.jpg
and why then shocked me is when i enter the enchanted forest before the mother lake on the right of the pathway there is a cave that look exactly like the one in the picture and for years now I have been climbing the mount for the purpose of visiting Mount Moriah with the two altars one for human sacrifice I avoid and one for animal sacrifice and as I climb there is Mount Zion and then I leap like the statue of the Queen of sheba over all the the big boulders to Mount Hermon where Jesus was Transfigured and Moses and Eljah were their to greet Jesus
All the pieces to the puzzle are coming together- back to examing the life of the one called the prophet Mohammad and it is said Hager the noble princess of Egypt and her son are his ancestors and an Angel of God visit Hagar and her son Ishmael in the desert saving them from death by lack of water
more latter
by Peter Leithart
”
Again in Church Dogmatics The Doctrine of the Word of God, Volume 1, Part 2: The Revelation of God; Holy Scripture: The Proclamation of the Church, Barth teases out the “negative” consequences of the confession that God has revealed himself in Jesus. If, Barth argues, Jesus tells us that “God is free for us here,” in the incarnate Son, then it also means that “He is not free for us elsewhere. It limits the freedom of God for us to itself.”
And this, in turn, means that elsewhere God is “a God hidden from men” and apart from Christ men are “blind to God.” This is a hiddenness of God deeper and more radical than anything a skeptic or unbeliever imagines: “The God whose existence or manifestness they doubt or deny is not God at all. And so too His absence, as they think they should assert it, is not God’s absence at all.” God’s hiddenness and absence are known only by revelation: His hiddenness elsewhere than in Jesus, His absence anywhere but in the Name: “All general intellectual difficulties and impossibilities respecting knowledge of so-called supernatural things assert nothing at all in face of the negation of all other knowability of God which is achieved by God’s revelation itself” (28-29).
This holds even if we do not follow Barth in denying general revelation or in hedging on the Bible as revelation. Even we don’t follow Barth on these points, it is still the case that God is hidden outside of Jesus, and that God’s hiddenness is implied in the very specificity of His revelation.
Oh, please.
Islam is totalitarian?
In the Middle Ages, European Christianity wasn’t exactly a beacon of freedom. Ask the Jews. They were persecuted by Christians, driven from country to country, inquisitions, pogroms, murders, etc.
Tens of thousands of women were tortured and executed for alleged witchcraft. (Some estimates put the number as high as 200,000–a very large number for those days of small population).
Totalitarianism results whenever a religion gets control of the machinery of government. That combines the absolute certitude of self-righteousness and reflexive rejection of other philosophies with the power to control and hurt others. What do you expect will happen.
Great job Sinz!
“Totalitarianism results whenever a religion gets control of the machinery of government. That combines the absolute certitude of self-righteousness and reflexive rejection of other philosophies with the power to control and hurt others. What do you expect will happen.”
Just one thing though. Islam IS totalitarian. Just no more than Judaism and Christianity.
Throw in poverty, ignorance and generations of inbreeding and it becomes a bigger danger!
Did Jesus Christ rape, pillage, murder, and/or sell his detractors into slavery?
Yes people have used all types of religions have been misconstrued to grab political power through history. The difference is – that’s how the founder of Islam intended it.
“In the Middle Ages”
Christianity over half a millennium ago? So Islam in 2012 gets a free pass, a get out of jail free card, because the Christians were pretty naughty a long, long time ago in a continent far, far away?
Christianity first grew up apart from governmental power and in opposition to government. The idea of religious as distinct from secular authority was maintained throughout the Middle Ages, though there were arguments about which was superior and how exactly their powers were divided. Christian theology recognizes non-Christian secular power as legitimate.
The coercive aspect was (temporarily) added centuries later by Roman emperors who saw monotheism as compatible with an imperial ideology. The idea of holy was didn’t appear until after Christian societies had to deal with Islamic holy war.
Islam has never acknowledged any distinction between religious and secular power. Islamic theology holds non-Islamic, non-Sharia governments to be illegitimate.
Islam began with bloody conquest far and wide. Force is written into the doctrine.
In those and other respects, Islam and Christianity are polar opposites.
In Jewish constitutionalism, the civil authority has the ultimate power over religious questions which is why we have theliberal idea of tolerance and secular states defining what is ultimately most sacred; see Eric Nelson’s The Hebrew Republic.
David,
I am so glad you wrote this story. Neopaganism turns out to be a bit like Marxism. Its adherents think they can push its fundamental tenets and get their practices and beliefs implemented as long as they are careful about the descriptive words used.
I recognized that I had a “Walks Like a Duck, Quakes Like a Duck, Refusing to Call itself a Duck” pattern recently And realized it had Ford Foundation and UNESCO support when created in the early 50s. Fit precisely with what is being pushed in 2012 under new names. Guess What? The book was brought out for its Twelfth Printing in 2012 and once I guessed right at the connection out came the Conferences and papers admitting and trumpeting exactly what was going on.
Humans need spirituality to get through life and Judeo-Christianity is being kept at bay precisely so that that element of the human personality can be targeted via education and popular culture with alternative messages. Once we accurately perceive that it is not the least bit hard to prove.
I tackled the Eastern Spirituality element coming at us and will explain that soon. Just ordered Bostom’s book to look for comparable initiatives.
We have to figure out accurately what is going on without being in the room when the plans were announced or being on the distribution list. Harder but doable with sufficient knowledge.
Well, Hitler remains a best-selling author in the Arab world… Mein Kampf translates directly as My Jihad.
These political movements promise to unite man in community by violently removing an alien element within the movements’ jurisdiction:
Fascism: unity with the state, purge all competing interests
Nazism: unity with the volk, purge the non-Aryan
Communism: unity with the proletariat, purge the bourgeoisie
Islam: unity with the Caliphate, purge the infidel
They are all “neo-pagan responses to Judaism and Christianity.”
To wit, “Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.”
The neo-pagan promises that the blood of rivals will be used to create a community of man; the Judeo-Christian model offers a community of man with the alien element being tolerated at the discretion of G*d.
That the Jew is also called to respect the alien’s life and hold out the offer of community we may learn from Deuteronomy: Assemble the people, the men and the women and children and the alien who is in your town, so that they may hear and learn and fear the LORD your God, and be careful to observe all the words of this law.-NASV
There are two systems competing for the love and loyalty of man–The Father’s and Big Brother’s. Choose wisely.
Tahrir Square is full today like during the revolution. I predict Morsi will rescind his decree. The MB have shot themselves in the foot politically. Egypt’s next President will be a secularist and Islamists written down in the next round of Parliamentary elections.
Given that in Egypt’s Parliamentary elections, some 45% voted for the Muslim Brotherhood and 25% for the Salafists, the notion that the Islamists will be “written down” in the next election is pure fantasy. As Goldman has noted, some 40% of Egyptian adults are functionally illiterate. They vote according to their tribe, clan, community (where the Brotherhood is prominent and well organized) or in deference to their religious leader. Even after today’s Islamists run Egypt into the ground, too many will insist the leaders weren’t following the true path of Islam, just as hard-core leftists excused the failures of the Soviet Union’s Communist Party by insisting they weren’t following the true path of socialism. So it’s more likely votes will shift from Muslim Brotherhood to Salafists, and not to seculars or “liberals”.
You don’t know what you’re talking about. Tahrir was packed today with numbers not seen since the revolution. Al Ahram estimates 100,000, all anti-Morsi. And that’s on a Tues. Fri. will be a much bigger day. That’s the day everyone comes out. They’re calling for a million man march on Friday and trust me, it’ll be bigger than today. Morsi has put his foot in it.
The Muslim Brotherhood canceled their own protest in Cairo because they’d be so outnumbered.
Morsi won a very close Presidential vote virtually 50/50. It was not a vote for Islam but for conservatism and against a candidate seen as a Mubarak figure. Morsi wouldn’t win that election only 5 months later.
As for Parliament, they are still not even in session and so not exposed. Having said that, Islamists aren’t faring very well in this situation.
This situation has reached a flash point and it won’t go away. I’ll tell you straight up: either Morsi backs off this decree or he’ll be kicked out of office, possibly with the help of the army, and new elections slated. If Morsi backs off, he is weakened. I wouldn’t be so quick to write off Egypt.
Mr. Goldman
I’m surprised that someone of your education could have such a misinformed view of the second largest religion in the world. Point of fact, Islam is one of the three Abrahamic religions. Contrary to what you may have heard on Fox “News” or MSNBC, Muslims worship the same God that Jews call Yahweh and Christians call Jehovah. While there are very important differences between all three faiths, there is much more in common than you appear to understand.
Balderdash. Yes, Islam did take over aspects of Judaic and Christian doctrine but turned out something radically different in its value system and historic consequences.
Islam is the only one of those religions that prescribes death for apostasy or for “insulting” its “prophet.” It is the only one that officially condones deceit for the sake of expanding its power, and the only that has been waging on ongoing war of conquest to bring the whole world under its sway by any and every means, most definitely including violence.
The “prophet” of Islam was directly involved in slaughtering people who did not submit to him. The “prophet” of Islam said “I have been made victorious by terror.” There is nothing comparable in Christianity or Judaism.
The main advantage that Islam has had historically is sheer brutality. And where Islam becomes dominant, the prevailing system is radically at odds with Western norms.
Muslim propaganda about the “three Abrahamic religions” is inconsequential, except to gull the gullible.
As Aquinas would say, it is necessary here to make a distinction. Jews, Christians, and Muslims agree to this point, that the God who spoke to Abraham is the one true God who created the world. You could say that they agree on the ascriptive subject of the term “god” — the one who spoke to Abraham. To that extent the “three Abrahamic religions” thing is justified.
But this agreement is very formal and doesn’t go very far. Christians, Muslims, and Jews disagree significantly about character, will, and intention of God. You could say that they disgree descriptively about the one to whom they agree in ascribing the term “God.” But there are different kinds of disagreement. By receiving the Jewish scriptures as the Old Testament, Christians are committed to describing God’s character, will, and intentions in a way that preserves continuity with Judaism. Christianity basically claims that the Jews were right up to a point, but that God did something they weren’t expecting, i.e. Jesus. But Islam replaces the Jewish and Christian Scriptures with a new canon, a signal that Islam’s view of the character, will, and intentions of the God who spoke to Abraham is radically discontinuous with both Judaism and Christianity. Islam holds that both the Jews and the Christians corrupted the revelation of God and Islam alone got it right.
Wouldn’t it be nice if Holocaust studies and Holocaust museums gave an honest account of what Socialist Jews said, did and believed and the similarities of their behaviors today? Somehow they are never held accountable.
From The Nachash – “The Muslim world could convert to Judaism tommorow and they woule be the same illiterate, poor, misoginistic, homophobic, fanatical fascists”.
Yeah but they would be our illiterate, poor, misogynistic, homophobic, fanatical fascists. I kind of like it. Its definitely a step up from slimy, Manhattanites,stealing everyone blind and pretending its for the good of mankind.
By the way, so-called modernism is the problem. It is producing a world encased in concrete that pretends to care about nature, a corporate world that preaches consumerism and destroys jobs and free markets. It provides nicely packaged multi-racial pharoahs as our so-called national leaders backed by the latest in market research and it taxes and regulates you down to the very beverage you drink. Give me the totalitarianism of the patriarchs and Moses over the so-called freedom of the Left any day.
And if anyone wants to lecture me about Meir Kahane I know quite a few old JDL’ers. The reason Kahane always debated Leftist professors was that he was recruiting their students. He made the mistake of believing all that noise and posturing was real energy, passion and would accomplish something. You can’t give a person who is a Leftist an immediate cause. You need to give them sedatives, therapy and enough Legos to let them work their way out of it. It was one of the reasons the Left so hated Kahane. His supporters were simply their own mirror with a little religion thrown in. I believe that some of his writings are of great value but his organization was dreck and filled with idiots (actual idiots, not the I don’t agree with your politics so you are an idiot type of idiot but real everyday dumb, mentally challenged idiots). Oh and by the way most of them are socialist leaning in economic theory even though they are supposedly right wing.
Cheers……
Is not the point a revival of the humanistic tradition in the west, and thus the planet, or the creation of Erzat Isreal and the continuation of perpetual world war?
How is Judaism anymore enlightened, or less pagan, than say Islam, for the real fight for Mr. Goldman and his persecuted and persecuting flock, would thus, considering the overtly tribal point of view that is perpetuated, be in the confronting the racialist perversions of the Talmud, a cancer on humanity as continually deadly as the heresies of the neo=con supported Al Queda.
Well let’s hope Morsi doesn’t get away with it. This demonstration shows the lie to the “they don’t want freedom” mantra of many on the right. If Morsi does get away with this and is allowed to become another dictator it will be to the shame of the West who are doing and saying nothing to his power grab.
reading all the latest comments here is my little comment :this is an age old problem about giving human power . This is good human has been given a big Big BIG mouth so his words haunt him latter before he presses button to bring fire down from heaven to destroy the enemy.
And so the 2nd storm after hurricane sandy was bigger here with mountains of waves and then I saw the Great ring of Great power come down from Heaven and land in the sea part of the 11 th heaven now on the earth. And the ring was so big only a giant’s hand can put on his finger
And then the next week at night while I was standing in the 6th heaven bowing to the 7th angel and all the human faces a great star went across the sky from east to west and then exploded marking the bounder line of the 11th heaven , where the Wisdom of Solomon is
Why heaven is coming down to earth in our day is the question . Who is worthy of power is the next question. One thing for sure the unworthy given power sure make a mess of things
Revelation 5
5 Then I saw in the right hand of him who sat on the throne a scroll with writing on both sides and sealed with seven seals. 2 And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming in a loud voice, “Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?” 3 But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it. 4 I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside.
Wonderful discussions here, I learn every day when I read PJM commenters. Heck, if I don’t have time to read the commenters, I pass on reading the article. Why take only half the story?
Since we’re speaking on world religions and how they affect life in America, let me recommend a book to you all. It is ‘The Harbinger’ by Jonathan Cahn. This author’s not a skilled fiction writer but does have much to teach us about our US government’s response to the attacks of 9-11 and the results that develop for us afterward. Our leadership made statements that are the same as statements made by leaders of the Northern Kingdom of Israel, as recorded in Isaiah 9:10. The author keeps the book focussed narrowly on his point and develops the supporting material carefully.
My take from considering the book, mixed with what I know of God, is the USA is repeating in parallel the Northern Kingdom’s cycle too exactly for us to expect a different outcome than the one Israel obtained. Three thousand years and not so much is changed: proud hearts and stiff necks. Of course Jesus makes everything different, but this good fact doesn’t make bad news into false news. It may be grace giving us forewarning.
Anyway, ‘the Harbinger’ is thoughtful, gives a perspective and framework to assess current events with a biblical eye. It’s not expensive and it doesn’t take much time to read.