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	<title>Comments on: Do the Commenters Here Represent the Average Intelligence of Conservatives?</title>
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		<title>By: El Gordo</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/ronrosenbaum/2009/10/11/do-the-commenters-here-represent-the-average-intelligence-of-conservatives/#comment-6312</link>
		<dc:creator>El Gordo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 19:59:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/ronrosenbaum/?p=1078#comment-6312</guid>
		<description>That should have read &quot;and &lt;b&gt;the necessity&lt;/b&gt; of turning society upside down.&quot;

Sorry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That should have read &#8220;and <b>the necessity</b> of turning society upside down.&#8221;</p>
<p>Sorry.</p>
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		<title>By: El Gordo</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/ronrosenbaum/2009/10/11/do-the-commenters-here-represent-the-average-intelligence-of-conservatives/#comment-6311</link>
		<dc:creator>El Gordo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 19:57:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/ronrosenbaum/?p=1078#comment-6311</guid>
		<description>Charlie, one more point. 

You write, if I may clumsily summarize, of the innate or latent conservatism of Obama within the black experience (which he in my opinion doesn´t even share, but let´s put that aside). I think you are mixing something up. A conservative lifestyle - work hard, save, marry, stay married etc - is fine. People benefit from living that way and conservatives like Sowell have lamented the decline of the family values among American blacks since the 1950s.

But personal behaviour alone does not make you a conservative. What makes a conservative is his relationship to society and its history, traditions and values. 

In the beautiful words of Roger Scruton:

&lt;i&gt;&quot;At the heart of every conservative endeavor is the effort to conserve a historically given community. In any conflict the conservative is the one who sides with &quot;us&quot; against &quot;them&quot;--not knowing, but trusting. He is the one who looks for the good in the institutions, customs and habits that he has inherited. He is the one who seeks to defend and perpetuate an instinctive sense of loyalty, and who is therefore suspicious of experiments and innovations that put loyalty at risk.

So defined, conservatism is less a philosophy than a temperament; but it is, I believe, a temperament that emerges naturally from the experience of society, and which is indeed necessary if societies are to endure. The conservative strives to diminish social entropy. The second law of thermodynamics implies that, in the long run, all conservatism must fail. But the same is true of life itself, and conservatism might equally be defined as the social organism&#039;s will to live.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Perhaps you see now why Obama is the anti-conservative, a man whose whole identity and self-perception is based on the fundamental faultiness of our society, and of turning society upside down. Or point me to one honest moment in which he demonstrated an identification with America as a whole because I sure missed it. 

&quot;To be a revolutionary in a society like ours, is to be a totalitarian, or not to know what one is doing.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charlie, one more point. </p>
<p>You write, if I may clumsily summarize, of the innate or latent conservatism of Obama within the black experience (which he in my opinion doesn´t even share, but let´s put that aside). I think you are mixing something up. A conservative lifestyle &#8211; work hard, save, marry, stay married etc &#8211; is fine. People benefit from living that way and conservatives like Sowell have lamented the decline of the family values among American blacks since the 1950s.</p>
<p>But personal behaviour alone does not make you a conservative. What makes a conservative is his relationship to society and its history, traditions and values. </p>
<p>In the beautiful words of Roger Scruton:</p>
<p><i>&#8220;At the heart of every conservative endeavor is the effort to conserve a historically given community. In any conflict the conservative is the one who sides with &#8220;us&#8221; against &#8220;them&#8221;&#8211;not knowing, but trusting. He is the one who looks for the good in the institutions, customs and habits that he has inherited. He is the one who seeks to defend and perpetuate an instinctive sense of loyalty, and who is therefore suspicious of experiments and innovations that put loyalty at risk.</p>
<p>So defined, conservatism is less a philosophy than a temperament; but it is, I believe, a temperament that emerges naturally from the experience of society, and which is indeed necessary if societies are to endure. The conservative strives to diminish social entropy. The second law of thermodynamics implies that, in the long run, all conservatism must fail. But the same is true of life itself, and conservatism might equally be defined as the social organism&#8217;s will to live.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Perhaps you see now why Obama is the anti-conservative, a man whose whole identity and self-perception is based on the fundamental faultiness of our society, and of turning society upside down. Or point me to one honest moment in which he demonstrated an identification with America as a whole because I sure missed it. </p>
<p>&#8220;To be a revolutionary in a society like ours, is to be a totalitarian, or not to know what one is doing.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: MarkO</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/ronrosenbaum/2009/10/11/do-the-commenters-here-represent-the-average-intelligence-of-conservatives/#comment-6309</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 17:33:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/ronrosenbaum/?p=1078#comment-6309</guid>
		<description>Once I was reading something called &quot;The Secret Parts of Fortune&quot; when I realized the author was not really that smart.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Once I was reading something called &#8220;The Secret Parts of Fortune&#8221; when I realized the author was not really that smart.</p>
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		<title>By: El Gordo</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/ronrosenbaum/2009/10/11/do-the-commenters-here-represent-the-average-intelligence-of-conservatives/#comment-6304</link>
		<dc:creator>El Gordo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 09:38:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/ronrosenbaum/?p=1078#comment-6304</guid>
		<description>Charlie Finch, I´m sure you will say I just don´t get it but this &quot;forces of black history&quot; stuff looks like muddled thinking to me. I prefer to treat Barack Obama as a man.

If the GOP threw the Democrats out of Congress next year and Obama were ready to work with them, his presidency might actually become successful. But he is not a blank slate, not anymore. He is an adult - he is the President, for Heaven´s sake - who has his personal baggage and ideological blinders and he is making his choices. One of those choices is to thoroughly alienate everyone who isn´t on board with his agenda, to accuse everyone of bad faith and to lie with pathological ease to get his way. Another choice was to see America through the lens of his radical upbringing and never to let go. He is 48 years old. He cannot let go. After nine months, still nothing gets through to this guy. 

So what if in his mind he´s elevating someone (in the abstract, it must be said, while in the actual putting down real people)? So what if in your mind he is the culmination of history? Too bad this culmination isn´t ready to act like a president. 

The symbolism and aesthetics of it will not save us or him from the consequences of his actions, which are thoroughly unwise as well as un-conservative.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charlie Finch, I´m sure you will say I just don´t get it but this &#8220;forces of black history&#8221; stuff looks like muddled thinking to me. I prefer to treat Barack Obama as a man.</p>
<p>If the GOP threw the Democrats out of Congress next year and Obama were ready to work with them, his presidency might actually become successful. But he is not a blank slate, not anymore. He is an adult &#8211; he is the President, for Heaven´s sake &#8211; who has his personal baggage and ideological blinders and he is making his choices. One of those choices is to thoroughly alienate everyone who isn´t on board with his agenda, to accuse everyone of bad faith and to lie with pathological ease to get his way. Another choice was to see America through the lens of his radical upbringing and never to let go. He is 48 years old. He cannot let go. After nine months, still nothing gets through to this guy. </p>
<p>So what if in his mind he´s elevating someone (in the abstract, it must be said, while in the actual putting down real people)? So what if in your mind he is the culmination of history? Too bad this culmination isn´t ready to act like a president. </p>
<p>The symbolism and aesthetics of it will not save us or him from the consequences of his actions, which are thoroughly unwise as well as un-conservative.</p>
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		<title>By: charlie finch</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/ronrosenbaum/2009/10/11/do-the-commenters-here-represent-the-average-intelligence-of-conservatives/#comment-6295</link>
		<dc:creator>charlie finch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 23:12:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/ronrosenbaum/?p=1078#comment-6295</guid>
		<description>I like Sowell. The point is that Obama and Sowell, as wildly different as they seen, are very close within the context of Black America. I am talking about the dialogues that go on within Black America, not the projections of white liberals onto the past. I have written in my column (on the Afam artist Kara Walker) that the guilt ridden yuppies of today would have proudly showed off their &quot;purchase&quot; on the auction block. This is because of the conflation between material excess and liberal dogma in our society. It matters less what Obama&#039;s views are than that he exists at all. If conservatives were to actively court him, rather than fear him, they could co-opt him very easily. This political shapeshifting has been essential to American politics in the past and has been obscured by the shrill polarity of today&#039;s simplistic discourse (the morons Olbermann and Beck make Father Coughlin and Alger Hiss seem tame by comparison).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like Sowell. The point is that Obama and Sowell, as wildly different as they seen, are very close within the context of Black America. I am talking about the dialogues that go on within Black America, not the projections of white liberals onto the past. I have written in my column (on the Afam artist Kara Walker) that the guilt ridden yuppies of today would have proudly showed off their &#8220;purchase&#8221; on the auction block. This is because of the conflation between material excess and liberal dogma in our society. It matters less what Obama&#8217;s views are than that he exists at all. If conservatives were to actively court him, rather than fear him, they could co-opt him very easily. This political shapeshifting has been essential to American politics in the past and has been obscured by the shrill polarity of today&#8217;s simplistic discourse (the morons Olbermann and Beck make Father Coughlin and Alger Hiss seem tame by comparison).</p>
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		<title>By: heathermc</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/ronrosenbaum/2009/10/11/do-the-commenters-here-represent-the-average-intelligence-of-conservatives/#comment-6282</link>
		<dc:creator>heathermc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 17:26:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/ronrosenbaum/?p=1078#comment-6282</guid>
		<description>Charlie, one of my favorite commentators is Thomas Sowell.  His book, Ethnic America, is magnificent.  It is a pity there is nothing equivalent done about Canada&#039;s ethnic groups.

Other than that, I am merely an onlooker, upon this wholly American dilemma.  Except, I must note that the US&#039;s foreign interests have been a reflection of its ethnic groupings.  The Boston Irish had their day (with some of their anger against the British Empire spilling over during WWII and after);  and then there was American measures taken against South African Apartheid, in reaction to the African American political impact on US society.  And the issue of the southern boundary with Mexico is all mixed up with &quot;Hispanic&quot; voters...   The largish Asian groups will soon have impact on American measures with the Philippines, and even India.  

The USofA is amazingly welcoming to this disparate groups.  And, as Thomas Sowell makes clear, each of them has contributed something different to the American ethos.  The problems with the &#039;diversity&#039; business is that it tries to manage this process.  It is doing a lousy job of it.

Obama? He is a fake intellectual, of the kind being pumped out by the now decadent ivy league universities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charlie, one of my favorite commentators is Thomas Sowell.  His book, Ethnic America, is magnificent.  It is a pity there is nothing equivalent done about Canada&#8217;s ethnic groups.</p>
<p>Other than that, I am merely an onlooker, upon this wholly American dilemma.  Except, I must note that the US&#8217;s foreign interests have been a reflection of its ethnic groupings.  The Boston Irish had their day (with some of their anger against the British Empire spilling over during WWII and after);  and then there was American measures taken against South African Apartheid, in reaction to the African American political impact on US society.  And the issue of the southern boundary with Mexico is all mixed up with &#8220;Hispanic&#8221; voters&#8230;   The largish Asian groups will soon have impact on American measures with the Philippines, and even India.  </p>
<p>The USofA is amazingly welcoming to this disparate groups.  And, as Thomas Sowell makes clear, each of them has contributed something different to the American ethos.  The problems with the &#8216;diversity&#8217; business is that it tries to manage this process.  It is doing a lousy job of it.</p>
<p>Obama? He is a fake intellectual, of the kind being pumped out by the now decadent ivy league universities.</p>
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		<title>By: charlie finch</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/ronrosenbaum/2009/10/11/do-the-commenters-here-represent-the-average-intelligence-of-conservatives/#comment-6279</link>
		<dc:creator>charlie finch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 13:13:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/ronrosenbaum/?p=1078#comment-6279</guid>
		<description>He&#039;s a bank slate, depthwise. So a little honey will get the fly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He&#8217;s a bank slate, depthwise. So a little honey will get the fly.</p>
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		<title>By: El Gordo</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/ronrosenbaum/2009/10/11/do-the-commenters-here-represent-the-average-intelligence-of-conservatives/#comment-6277</link>
		<dc:creator>El Gordo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 11:41:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/ronrosenbaum/?p=1078#comment-6277</guid>
		<description>Charlie Finch, how exactly is Obama the culmination except in aesthetic terms? His actual experience couldn´t be more different. And what does that mean, &quot;ripe for the picking by conservatives&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charlie Finch, how exactly is Obama the culmination except in aesthetic terms? His actual experience couldn´t be more different. And what does that mean, &#8220;ripe for the picking by conservatives&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: charlie finch</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/ronrosenbaum/2009/10/11/do-the-commenters-here-represent-the-average-intelligence-of-conservatives/#comment-6273</link>
		<dc:creator>charlie finch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 00:12:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/ronrosenbaum/?p=1078#comment-6273</guid>
		<description>To me, the biggest mistake the conservatives make is their lack of curiosity about the black experience in America, which, because of the love that black Americans have for their country in spite of all the danger, is a great potential lesson for conservatives. For who has been more conservative than black Americans? The great institutions of segregated America, &quot;The Chicago Defender&quot;, the Duke Ellington Orchestra, Bessie Smith, Robert Johnson, Paul Robeson, Jackie Robinson, Ethel Waters and so many others were profoundly conservative in their promulgation of their own traditions, their recognition of the insurmountability of suffering and their yearning for God. Someone like WEB DuBois (like Robeson nominally a Communist) manufactured an essentially conservative program for black advancement, the &quot;Talented Tenth&quot;, in which the cleaning ladies and sleeping car porters and scuttle men and assembly line workers and women who took in washing were to devote their energies to the elevation of the sliver of their number with &quot;talent&quot;. Barack Obama is the culmination of DuBois 100 year program. However wrong he is on the issues and however superficial his persona, Obama is ripe for the picking by conservatives, if they would only try.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To me, the biggest mistake the conservatives make is their lack of curiosity about the black experience in America, which, because of the love that black Americans have for their country in spite of all the danger, is a great potential lesson for conservatives. For who has been more conservative than black Americans? The great institutions of segregated America, &#8220;The Chicago Defender&#8221;, the Duke Ellington Orchestra, Bessie Smith, Robert Johnson, Paul Robeson, Jackie Robinson, Ethel Waters and so many others were profoundly conservative in their promulgation of their own traditions, their recognition of the insurmountability of suffering and their yearning for God. Someone like WEB DuBois (like Robeson nominally a Communist) manufactured an essentially conservative program for black advancement, the &#8220;Talented Tenth&#8221;, in which the cleaning ladies and sleeping car porters and scuttle men and assembly line workers and women who took in washing were to devote their energies to the elevation of the sliver of their number with &#8220;talent&#8221;. Barack Obama is the culmination of DuBois 100 year program. However wrong he is on the issues and however superficial his persona, Obama is ripe for the picking by conservatives, if they would only try.</p>
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		<title>By: El Gordo</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/ronrosenbaum/2009/10/11/do-the-commenters-here-represent-the-average-intelligence-of-conservatives/#comment-6272</link>
		<dc:creator>El Gordo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2009 23:39:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/ronrosenbaum/?p=1078#comment-6272</guid>
		<description>The last books I read were Victor Klemperer´s diaries (1933-1945), an account of Vasca da Gama´s voyage to India, a Hornblower novel by C.S. Forester and a collection of essays by Theodore Dalrymple. I love talk radio. Let me make that clear. 

I don´t appreciate being called a hater for opposing an administration and a party that has no scruples calling their opponents political terrorists, un-American and worse, and who go after media outlets if they don´t toe the line. We didn´t put a 9/11 truther in the White House. That was President Obama. We didn´t make Rev. Wright his mentor. It was his choice, his long line of mistakes. Face it. 

Liberals gave him the nomination largely because of his race, so it is only natural that they believe opposition to him to be racial. But that is not my problem.

I have never seen Obama read anything weightier than Fareed Zakaria, who is a tv personality. Just saying.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The last books I read were Victor Klemperer´s diaries (1933-1945), an account of Vasca da Gama´s voyage to India, a Hornblower novel by C.S. Forester and a collection of essays by Theodore Dalrymple. I love talk radio. Let me make that clear. </p>
<p>I don´t appreciate being called a hater for opposing an administration and a party that has no scruples calling their opponents political terrorists, un-American and worse, and who go after media outlets if they don´t toe the line. We didn´t put a 9/11 truther in the White House. That was President Obama. We didn´t make Rev. Wright his mentor. It was his choice, his long line of mistakes. Face it. </p>
<p>Liberals gave him the nomination largely because of his race, so it is only natural that they believe opposition to him to be racial. But that is not my problem.</p>
<p>I have never seen Obama read anything weightier than Fareed Zakaria, who is a tv personality. Just saying.</p>
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