Comments on: The Hysterical Over-reaction… http://pjmedia.com/ronrosenbaum/2009/02/02/the-hysterical-over-reaction/ Fri, 02 Apr 2010 00:15:41 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: OmegaPaladin http://pjmedia.com/ronrosenbaum/2009/02/02/the-hysterical-over-reaction/#comment-2955 OmegaPaladin Tue, 10 Feb 2009 23:37:30 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/ronrosenbaum/?p=611#comment-2955 Richard, The title is stating that if you see someone with lots of money, you should assume he or she is immoral. I would like to see hard numbers backing this or at least some evidence. Your argument is that there is a negative correlation between power and morality - i.e power corrupts. However, the argument breaks down beyond the most general form. Was I more moral when I was unemployed? Are the homeless poor models of moral behavior? Since earning a paycheck grants you more money and power, should you and Mr. Rosenbaum donate all of your earnings to charity? Taking this argument to extremes actually ends up sounding communist, which I don't think is your intent. I would argue that power be understood as capability, regardless whether it is political, financial, or personal power. With lots of money, you can do more of what you already want to do. Evil people do evil, good people do good, in general. Richard,

The title is stating that if you see someone with lots of money, you should assume he or she is immoral. I would like to see hard numbers backing this or at least some evidence.

Your argument is that there is a negative correlation between power and morality – i.e power corrupts. However, the argument breaks down beyond the most general form. Was I more moral when I was unemployed? Are the homeless poor models of moral behavior? Since earning a paycheck grants you more money and power, should you and Mr. Rosenbaum donate all of your earnings to charity? Taking this argument to extremes actually ends up sounding communist, which I don’t think is your intent.

I would argue that power be understood as capability, regardless whether it is political, financial, or personal power. With lots of money, you can do more of what you already want to do. Evil people do evil, good people do good, in general.

]]> By: Richard Bell http://pjmedia.com/ronrosenbaum/2009/02/02/the-hysterical-over-reaction/#comment-2928 Richard Bell Sat, 07 Feb 2009 18:26:20 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/ronrosenbaum/?p=611#comment-2928 I disagree with OmegaPaladin that the article's title is inflammatory. Rosenbaum is a great student of history. But even a not-so-great student of history soon notices that: 1. riches are almost always associated with direct or indirect access to much more power than the average individual has; 2. as a species, humans have not evolved to be very good about controlling themselves when they achieve great power. So it is not surprising that in most cases throughout all of recorded history, people with great wealth tend to abuse the great power that accompanies that wealth. Does this historical lesson mean that all rich people are immoral? Of course not. But these exceptions do not disprove the rule. There are innumerable warnings about the dangers of great riches to the human soul or spirit in every religion. And great concentrations of wealth have at least as corrosive effect on the possibilities for democratic governments. I disagree with OmegaPaladin that the article’s title is inflammatory. Rosenbaum is a great student of history. But even a not-so-great student of history soon notices that:
1. riches are almost always associated with direct or indirect access to much more power than the average individual has;
2. as a species, humans have not evolved to be very good about controlling themselves when they achieve great power.
So it is not surprising that in most cases throughout all of recorded history, people with great wealth tend to abuse the great power that accompanies that wealth.

Does this historical lesson mean that all rich people are immoral? Of course not. But these exceptions do not disprove the rule.

There are innumerable warnings about the dangers of great riches to the human soul or spirit in every religion. And great concentrations of wealth have at least as corrosive effect on the possibilities for democratic governments.

]]> By: Tom Perkins http://pjmedia.com/ronrosenbaum/2009/02/02/the-hysterical-over-reaction/#comment-2927 Tom Perkins Sat, 07 Feb 2009 15:33:55 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/ronrosenbaum/?p=611#comment-2927 "Obama didn’t call for new laws or penalties for for the swinish financeers (the typical liberal solution). What he did was use moral suasion and call for self restraint, two conservative values." Maybe not in the same paragraph, but it isn't credible it was not part of an effort towards such new laws and penalties. Yours, TDP, ml, msl, & pfpp “Obama didn’t call for new laws or penalties for for the swinish financeers (the typical liberal solution). What he did was use moral suasion and call for self restraint, two conservative values.”

Maybe not in the same paragraph, but it isn’t credible it was not part of an effort towards such new laws and penalties.

Yours, TDP, ml, msl, & pfpp

]]> By: OmegaPaladin http://pjmedia.com/ronrosenbaum/2009/02/02/the-hysterical-over-reaction/#comment-2925 OmegaPaladin Fri, 06 Feb 2009 00:43:48 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/ronrosenbaum/?p=611#comment-2925 Mr. Rosenbaum, Please examine your article's title - it looks deliberately inflammatory. Did you really want to imply that having lots of money is immoral? Is there some specific type of negative correlation between money and moral virtue, or did you have a threshold in mind? Please don't get me wrong - I would support a harsh prison sentence or draconian fines (as in leave the jerk out in the street) for the "geniuses" behind our current financial crisis. I don't want to see the scum get rewarded for theft and economic vandalism. However, saying that having lots of money is inherently evil just seems crazy. Money is just a tool after all. Mr. Rosenbaum,

Please examine your article’s title – it looks deliberately inflammatory. Did you really want to imply that having lots of money is immoral? Is there some specific type of negative correlation between money and moral virtue, or did you have a threshold in mind?

Please don’t get me wrong – I would support a harsh prison sentence or draconian fines (as in leave the jerk out in the street) for the “geniuses” behind our current financial crisis. I don’t want to see the scum get rewarded for theft and economic vandalism. However, saying that having lots of money is inherently evil just seems crazy. Money is just a tool after all.

]]> By: Rob http://pjmedia.com/ronrosenbaum/2009/02/02/the-hysterical-over-reaction/#comment-2924 Rob Thu, 05 Feb 2009 03:27:54 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/ronrosenbaum/?p=611#comment-2924 Is it racist for me to point out that Obama went a bit further today than 'use moral suasion and call for self restraint'. How about if I blame Barney Frank instead? Can you then get off your moral pedestal, look at it rationally and admit you were wrong? Is it racist for me to point out that Obama went a bit further today than ‘use moral suasion and call for self restraint’.

How about if I blame Barney Frank instead? Can you then get off your moral pedestal, look at it rationally and admit you were wrong?

]]> By: charlie finch http://pjmedia.com/ronrosenbaum/2009/02/02/the-hysterical-over-reaction/#comment-2923 charlie finch Thu, 05 Feb 2009 02:16:50 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/ronrosenbaum/?p=611#comment-2923 Bob Woodward blabbed on "The Chris Matthews Show" that there is more scandal to come Bob Woodward blabbed on “The Chris Matthews Show” that there is more scandal to come

]]> By: huxley http://pjmedia.com/ronrosenbaum/2009/02/02/the-hysterical-over-reaction/#comment-2922 huxley Thu, 05 Feb 2009 01:06:05 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/ronrosenbaum/?p=611#comment-2922 I thought the point was insightful commentary, not thin-skinnedness and grudge matches. Perhaps RR doesn't have much else to say than to beat up on trolls. It certainly hasn't been a good couple of weeks to continue trumpeting how intelligent and competent Obama is. I thought the point was insightful commentary, not thin-skinnedness and grudge matches.

Perhaps RR doesn’t have much else to say than to beat up on trolls. It certainly hasn’t been a good couple of weeks to continue trumpeting how intelligent and competent Obama is.

]]> By: charlie finch http://pjmedia.com/ronrosenbaum/2009/02/02/the-hysterical-over-reaction/#comment-2920 charlie finch Wed, 04 Feb 2009 23:24:15 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/ronrosenbaum/?p=611#comment-2920 If ya can't crack a coupla nuts once in awhile, what's the point? If ya can’t crack a coupla nuts once in awhile, what’s the point?

]]> By: Scott E http://pjmedia.com/ronrosenbaum/2009/02/02/the-hysterical-over-reaction/#comment-2919 Scott E Wed, 04 Feb 2009 22:11:32 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/ronrosenbaum/?p=611#comment-2919 Companies that lose billions of dollars should clearly not be handing out bonuses. For those employees of these companies prone to whine about not receiving their bonus it may be time to more actively speak up when you hear some idiot extolling the virtues of insane leverage, with seeming little risk. It may be time to apply some of the advice that these firms endlessly blather about to their legions of customers regarding prudent and careful investing. Until then, start making money and start making bonuses again. Companies that lose billions of dollars should clearly not be handing out bonuses. For those employees of these companies prone to whine about not receiving their bonus it may be time to more actively speak up when you hear some idiot extolling the virtues of insane leverage, with seeming little risk. It may be time to apply some of the advice that these firms endlessly blather about to their legions of customers regarding prudent and careful investing.

Until then, start making money and start making bonuses again.

]]> By: huxley http://pjmedia.com/ronrosenbaum/2009/02/02/the-hysterical-over-reaction/#comment-2918 huxley Wed, 04 Feb 2009 21:55:18 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/ronrosenbaum/?p=611#comment-2918 RR -- Maybe you should stop reading the comments or stop commenting on them. Lots of other bloggers have their trolls, but these bloggers either ignore them or find ways to defuse them. As it stands, you end up sounding as spittle-flecked as those you rail against. I suggest neo-neocon as an example. She covers a similar range of topics with a writerly, psychological angle as you do. She has had some nasty folks come at her and manages to trundle on without excursions like this topic. RR — Maybe you should stop reading the comments or stop commenting on them. Lots of other bloggers have their trolls, but these bloggers either ignore them or find ways to defuse them.

As it stands, you end up sounding as spittle-flecked as those you rail against.

I suggest neo-neocon as an example. She covers a similar range of topics with a writerly, psychological angle as you do. She has had some nasty folks come at her and manages to trundle on without excursions like this topic.

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