The Evidence in the Trayvon Martin Case is Released, and George Zimmerman is Vindicated
A summary of the evidence may be found at Slate. Among the other revelations damaging to the Martin story is that the dead teen had traces of THC, a drug found in marijuana, in his blood and urine.
My prediction is that the prosecution will try Zimmerman nevertheless, and try to build a circumstantial argument that had he not followed Martin, things would have been quite different. Of course, the defense will undoubtedly argue that Martin could have waited for police to arrive, not attacked Zimmerman, and explained that his father was visiting friends in the community and that he had only gone to the store to purchase candy. Whether the jury will still find Zimmerman guilty of second degree murder because he followed Martin is your guess.
The main point is that all those who jumped to the conclusion that Zimmerman had attacked Martin because he was black, and that it was a racially motivated crime, have some apologizing to do. Slate, which ran the summary, should apologize to its readers for the previous story I referred to at the start. Their post today does not link to their own past coverage, which I have been unable to find with a Google search. Will Bruce Springsteen also apologize for reviving his song “American Skin(41 shots)” and dedicating it to Trayvon Martin? And what about Rev. Al Sharpton, who was down in Florida for days revving up the crowd, and acting as if a 1940s-style lynching had occurred, while practically leading a lynch mob himself? And will Spike Lee apologize for making public what he thought was the address of Zimmerman’s family, so people could harass them and threaten them? Don’t hold your breath.
Whatever the future has in store for George Zimmerman, those who sought to make the Martin case about race have been found to be all wrong in their conclusions.
Update: Noon EST
If you want to see how the Left is spinning this, go no further than the article in today’s Daily Beast by Aarom Roston. The emphasis is skewed to support the Martin defense, while omitting anything that vindicates Zimmerman. Take the following paragraph:
One piece of evidence likely to anger those who felt Zimmerman should have been charged sooner was a police report by the original investigator, saying that Zimmerman should be arrested and charged with manslaughter because “the encounter between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin was ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman.” That report was dated March 13, nearly a month before Zimmerman was charged.
The report omits the evidence indicating that Martin had traces of marijuana found during the autopsy, and as the above paragraph reveals, emphasizes the opinion of one police officer, which is different from concrete evidence. When Roston mentions evidence that seemingly vindicates Zimmerman, he follows it with a sentence that reads “another witness could not say who was on top. “Who was on the top and who was on the bottom?” she was asked, according to the documents. “I could not tell,” she said.” He also spends paragraphs repeating the argument that the voice yelling for help was that of Martin, and only at the end, mentions and downplays Martin’s father’s comment that the voice on the tape was not his son.
I suspect other leftist media sites will be even worse.
Update: 4:15 pm EST
Legal whiz Alan M. Dershowitz has written perhaps the best piece on the new evidence. You can find it here. He writes the following:
If this evidence turns out to be valid, the prosecutor will have no choice but to drop the second-degree murder charge against Zimmerman — if she wants to act ethically, lawfully and professionally.
There is, of course, no assurance that the special prosecutor handling the case, State Attorney Angela Corey, will do the right thing. Because until now, her actions have been anything but ethical, lawful and professional.
She was aware when she submitted an affidavit that it did not contain the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. She deliberately withheld evidence that supported Zimmerman’s claim of self-defense. The New York Times has reported that the police had “a full face picture” of Zimmerman, before paramedics treated him, that showed “a bloodied nose.” The prosecutor also had photographic evidence of bruises to the back of his head.
But none of this was included in any affidavit.
He goes on to point out that even if Zimmerman followed Martin, that alone does not undermine his claim of self-defense. He also chastises The Daily Beast for running another article whose author argued that it is the role of the legal system to avert a “racial calamity,” not to produce justice. Finally, he specifically singles out The New York Times for running biased coverage meant to exonerate Martin, ignoring evidence that clearly favors Zimmerman, and for running “ an inflammatory item of uncorroborated gossip.”
Alan Dershowitz has a far greater influence than anyone at PJM, and his sharp retort to the MSM coverage is more than welcome. He says that the Times “has some explaining to do.” But even that rebuke from one of America’s top legal minds, I think, will have little effect on the editors of the NYT.
It is time to remind readers of this excellent author that black liberation theologists annexed, successfully, Martin Luther King Jr. to the separatist project, one that was unashamedly Third World and black supremacist. I laid it out here, after reading James Cone and others on the subject. http://clarespark.com/2009/10/31/the-offing-of-martin-luther-king-jr-and-ralph-bunche/. Hence the possibility that some witnesses were ideologically motivated as the evidence now strongly suggests.
That is going to be the basis of their case, that if Zimmerman had not followed Martin? Really? So, the police show up, and because Martin wasn’t followed, they do not find him. After the police leaves, Martins still jumps Zimmerman? Martin still ends up dead.
It is really stupid to say that if someone had just done something else, this would not have happened, because there is no way of knowing that. Sure, negligent homicide is putting the gun into someone’s hand, then pointing him at a target, but this is a far cry from that. There is just no way for Zimmerman to truly expect the outcome of this encounter, even though it is a potential in any encounter during his neighborhood watch, because there is no telling which specific action will lead to which specific result.
Zimmerman armed himself and followed an individual in which there was no evidence that the individual was doing anything wrong. Zimmerman fully knew what the outcome could possibly be, and most likely expected it.
You are 100% correct.
BS
Zimmerman got jumped by Martin because Martin was an angry young thug. Zimmerman had every right to do exactly what he as doing. He was part of a group tasked to do just that sort of thing.
Kids who are raised to despise and reject authority will grow up in the penal system, or not at all. And it will be their parents’ fault.
Zimmerman armed himself and followed an individual in which there was no evidence that the individual was doing anything wrong.
A) There was evidence that Martin was doing something wrong.
B) Regardless of whether or not Martin was doing something wrong, Zimmerman did not do anything wrong in “arming himself” (which is perfectly legal) or in “following” somebody (which is also perfectly legal).
I see that the left remains resolutely stupid regardless of the facts.
I agree SteveM. Unfortunately for people who want to believe Zimmerman is going down, the newly released evidence shows there are no facts to support a 2nd degree murder charge.
The police told Zimmerman to stop following Martin. If Zimmerman had done what the police had said Martin would not have been killed. And Zimmerman would not have been physically assaulted. Stupid is stupid. Zimmerman is a cowboy of the old west. Shoot and ask questions later.ol
No, the police did not tell him to stop following Martin, a 911 operator (not an officer) told him that following Martin was not necessary. Zimmerman’s breathing changed on the recording, indicating that he had actually broken off pursuit. Zimmerman was looking for an address to give the police (remember, they were /behind/ buildings; how many buildings have an address on the /back/ door?), when Martin jumped him.
No, the police did not order Zimmerman to stop following, it was a 911 operator.
He wasn’t ordered to do anything. He was told he wasn’t needed, which is very different.
He had a legal right to follow Martin, in his official capacity as a neighborhood watch. OTOH, Martin had no legal right to beat him to death, for following him.
This is comparable to a woman who shoots her rapist during the course of the rape and is charged with murder, because “she could have avoided it if she hadn’t gotten out of her car”.
At the request of his neighbors, who had been terrorized by “young black males” breaking into homes in the neighborhood, George Zimmerman agreed to involvement in his Neighborhood Watch program. As he walked around HIS OWN neighborhood because the other residents were too frightened to do so, he saw someone who acted like he was on drugs, and who met the description of the criminals. (If the break-ins had been conducted by IRA members, Mr Zimmerman would have been on the lookout for redheads).
What I want to know is: have the break-ins stopped ever since Trayvon Martin’s budding career as a criminal was tragically cut short?
I read an article the other day that measured crime in that neighborhood before and after, and no surprise, it’s gone way down!
Zimmerman reported a man who was acting suspiciously or on drugs. Martin was on drugs. Sounds to me that Zimmerman was very perceptive in his observation of Martin’s behavior. Ever think that Martin’s erratic behavior was indicative of someone casing the neighborhood? Zimmerman was doing what neighborhood watches do. They report suspicious behavior.
Just a clarification: “traces” of THC in your system, in my understanding, don’t mean that you’ve used weed recently. It stays in your system for days or weeks afterward. Traces probably means he’d smoked a joint a few days or a week earlier—hardly “on drugs” at the time of the shooting.
All of this doesn’t exonerate Martin, or convict Zimmerman. I keep saying Zimmerman was stupid to follow Martin, and that his actions got the kid killed (he apologized to the family at the inquest, and seems to understand his mistake now). The question is whether his actions rise to the level of criminality. I don’t know enough about Florida law to make a determination here. If I understand it correctly, in some states mere stupidity leading to someone’s death can result in a manslaughter conviction, while in others actual criminal acts are required. It seems likely that up to the point where Martin was shot and killed, Zimmerman hadn’t broken the law, so in that light he’d be OK…but if the law includes stupidity, he might be in trouble.
Cower beneath your bed David.
Well, I don’t know about you, but I’m usually in bed at 2 am or 3 am in the morning. Does Florida have a curfew for kids under the age of 18? Why was this kid going to the store for “Skittles and tea” at 3 am? I mean..Really? That alone looks suspicious.
Trayvon was a gang member, a thief, had been suspended from school 3 times, had a disgusting twitter name…he was no choir boy. When the story first broke I knew this would turn out like the Duke case when they kept showing the pic of a 12 year old kid when he was 17.
I feel sorry for Zimmerman.
I repeat: Traces in the urine can last for weeks. Just like blood alcohol levels show recent consumption of alcohol, traces of THC in the blood show very recent marijuana use.
Conviction of the crime of manslaughter requires something more than following a suspicious person after dark when you’re a member of the neighborhood crime watch. Even if it were to be proven at trial that Zimmerman followed Martin, what element of the offense does that prove? This isn’t a civil lawsuit, where a negligent tort is alleged, so that all you have to prove is that by a preponderance of the evidence – a feather more than 50%, more likely than not – the act of the defendant caused the injury to the plaintiff and that act was the sin qua non of the event, the “but – for” cause. Following someone cannot be the immediate cause of someone’s death, without other additional and intervening act or acts. Oh, well, it shows that Zimmerman was stalking Martin for the purpose of killing him. Sure … but you have to get a lot of foundational evidence introduced before you can offer the “he followed him” evidence, because otherwise it’s inadmissible because it doesn’t go to prove any issue in the trial without the foundational evidence. Connect it up; you see? There are no crimes called, “profiling” or “following” nor are those actions any element of the offenses of manslaughter or murder. Prosecutors don’t get to just throw in anything they want, in evidence.
TCH in urine? Yes, stays for a while. In blood serum? No, is detectable for only a certain period of time after consumption.
So, in blood stream, actively under the effect. In urine, could have been days or weeks.
You must ignore the lie that Zimmerman followed Martin. The 911 tapes show he stopped when requested. In fact it left a minute and a half, and a CLEAR UNOBSTRUCTED path, for Martin to get to where he was staying.
For your final misconception that Zimmerman apologized. He did not apologize for ‘killing’ Martin. What he DID say was he was sorry for the DEATH of Martin. Big difference. I’m sure he truly is sorry that a punk is dead because of his own actions. If only he had be raised to respect. If only he had been raised to not steal. A lot of ‘if onlys’.
I’m also sorry that, because of his ego, Martin is dead. I also feel sorry for you. You have decided to ignore the facts, and instead, make your own.
If the law includes stupidity? That’s a stupid question. Criminal laws are designed to punish intentional bad acts. So the state has to prove that Zimmerman intended with a depraved heart to kill Trayvon and there are no facts to support that. Add to the mix that Zimmerman is allowed to claim stand your ground self defense, and he walks.
So, you want to blame the victim of a crime for being attacked? How about “Banks would not get robbed if they were not stupid enough to have money in them”?
Following someone and then getting attacked by them is not a crime. If it were it’d be carte blanche for any thug like Trayvon and his ilk to attack people for the crime of walking down the street. Zimmerman is a national hero.
Wrong…just by following someone, Zimmerman didn`t commit any crime…if Treyvon was going home, why he didn`t run, why he didn`t call police?…but he choose to confront the person who was looking out for the good of the neighborhood
You’re leaving out the element of “CHOICE” on the part of Martin.
He could have headed home (and why not; it was dark and raining) he could have politely told Zimmerman the name and address of the residence he was staying at, told Zimmerman to accompany him there and see for himself.
Oh, right; Zimmerman would have pulled the trigger anyway…he had a temper. Unlike Trayvon, who was kicked out of school for being a sweet faced football jock.
This would have turned out well if Zimmerman had submitted to the beating, admitting later in the ICU that he was a flaming racist (white* I’ll help you here) who had it coming…but ya know, “for the first time in my adult life,” I’m proud somebody had the means with which to save his own life. I wish my 24 year old relative had been so fortunate. (shot in the face by a black stranger, on his knees begging, “Don’t shoot!”)
Say! Maybe he’s among the lucky dead who voted for Hope and Change in 2008…? if so, I’m glad he could help.
How do you know any of these?
And even if he did, it’s no excuse for Martin to attack Zimmerman. I can follow you in the street for the fun of it. It maybe annoying, but legal. Throwing punches, knocking Zimmerman’s head against the ground and going for his pistol is not.
Remember, Zimmerman was on neighborhood watch, and so it as his duty, even if you don’t like it.
Anyone can speculate whatever they like. Not the Jury. Not the legal system.
You are a ignorant person. You make a statement with no grasp of the situation. Your comment was subjective and biased to how you feel about the case in which I suppose you were all against Zimmerman. Your buddy below who supported you 100% is a tool as well.
“My prediction is that the prosecution will try Zimmerman nevertheless, and try to build a circumstantial argument that had he not followed Martin, things would have been quite different.”
Followed Martin and…what? Did he follow him gun drawn. Did he announce himself as a neighborhood watchman? If so, did Martin understand him or did he simply see the frightening sight of a man with a gun following him, intent on robbing or shooting him? The fact that Martin wound up pummeling Zimmerman means nothing without knowing what preceded the final moments.
“The main point is that for all those who jumped to the conclusion that Zimmerman had attacked Martin because he was black, and that it was a racially motivated crime, have some apologizing to do.”
No, those who passed and support the insane “stand-your-ground” law should apologize for sanctioning a layman to assume the duties of an armed police officer, in this case against the explicit instructions of the 911 operator.
Do you have any idea at all what the “stand your ground law” states? Have you read it? I’ll wager that you have not. “Stand your ground” isn’t an issue in this case and does not apply. Zimmerman and his defense attorneys have not, do not and will not claim a “stand your ground” defense. Zimmerman has, from the very start, claimed self-defense, straight up. The ONLY people talking about “stand your ground” are the law’s opponents and the press (but that’s being redundant).
As for Zimmerman following Martin, “against the explicit instructions of the 911 operator”; have you listened to the entire uneditted audio tape? No, you have not. Because anyone who has realizes that Zimmerman IMMEDIATELY stopped following Martin when told, “we don’t need you to do that” (which, by the way, is a very long way from an imperative command to stop following).
You seem to be short of knowledge and long on opinion.
And since when in hell is ignoring a dispatcher against the law? Maybe dumb, but not criminal, nor suggestive of any criminality.
Try reading the transcript, nutball. He DID follow her instructions.
Additionally, I had no idea that disobeying the instructions of a 911 dispatcher was now a crime punishable by law. Are you that hard-up for authority figures to dominate you?
The Media tried to start a Race War. They seemed to have failed this time, but they will try again. Think how many papers they could sell if just a few hundred people would be lynched or beaten. They would be back on top. You have to look at the Big Picture, you have to think of things like a Journalism Major.
HE STOPPED FOLLOWING MARTIN WHEN THE DISPATCHER TOLD HIM, “You don’t need to do that.” On the tape you can hear his breathing change, he states ‘they always get away.’ He than arranges for the police to meet him back at his truck, and he states he no longer knows where Martin is, then hangs up.’
Apparently, their paths crossed again as Zimmerman went back to his truck. Who knows- maybe Martin decided to go find out why Zimmerman had initially followed him. Maybe he went back to introduce himself and explain he was temporarily living with his relatives.
We still do not know who turned that second interaction physical. Just because Martin had gotten the best of Zimmerman doesn’t mean Zimmerman didn’t try to grab him first. Martin could have just been defending himself under ‘stand your ground’.
However, all of the evidence that has been released so far publicly is consistent with what Zimmerman said, and not what the MSM agenda driven media narrative was.
styrgwillidar: I just want to follow up on your comment about what the dispatcher said, and, accordingly, Mr. Radosh’s statement: “Now, the only remaining issue is the argument that the prosecutors will evidently make: If Zimmerman had not followed Martin and instead taken the advice of the police to stay put … ”
styrgwillidar: The quote you have from the tape is correct, but observe: there is no statement to stop or stay put. The statement is quite ambiguous. It leaves the choice up to Zimmerman of continuing the pursuit or staying put. (I note that when I first starting comment on this case way back when, I thought the advice was to stop; another commenter on PJM corrected me, and now of course this has become an important issue.) It should also be observed that from the tape, Zimmerman did stop after a bit. The reason I think he stopped was that Martin had outrun him. Remember, Martin was 6’2″ (or 6’4″, I forget which) and was a pretty good athlete who could easily outrun Zimmerman. The reason I think that, is Zimmerman loses sight of Martin, and that is clear from the tape because he says so on the tape. That means that Martin, who was just yards from his father’s girlfriend’s house could have kept going and been totally free of Zimmerman. For the confrontation to have taken place, Martin had to return to where Zimmerman was, which makes Martin was the agressor, not Zimmerman.
BTW I mentioned on Bryan Preston’s column last night on this case that the special prosecutor has perjured herself by providing false inculpatory evidence and no exculpatory evidencee. I think it behooves Zimmerman’s attorney to bring this issue up to the judge so that an honest prosecutor can take over. (Shades of Mike Nifong.)
Jack
“there is no [dispatchers]statement to stop or stay put. The statement is quite ambiguous”
Of course it was. Dispatchers, Customer Service Reps and others who work on recorded telephone lines
practice a kind of self censorship, and dont say things like:
“No! Dude, are you f*ucking stupid!?” when they are being recorded.
They tend to say things politely and professionally like :
“we don’t need you to do that” and :
“no sir, please don’t the computer from the outlet…simply press control, alt, and delete”
as their eyes roll dealing with a moron.
Poor Mr. Zimmerman, his principal “crime”, for which the media demands bloody retribution, was in pointing out the forbidden obvious. A young black male in a hoodie, wandering between homes really IS a suspicious sight,
because young black men who look like thugs really DO commit the majority of crime in this country.
Martins “resume’” indeed reads like a cliche of all the ills affecting young black men.
Broken home, drugs, in trouble at school, a self proclaimed “no limit nigga” moniker, bling grills, hoodies and violence.
The dude looks suspicious, the cops are on the line, and I’m armed…
Hmmmm….lets set off on foot, and see just HOW dangerous this guy is, shall we?
An averagely intelligent gun owner would have immediately realized:
1) You will LIKELY be attacked
2) You will LIKELY to have to then defend yourself
3) You will LIKELY have all evidence of the criminal attack upon you discounted because:
4) They will LIKELY distort the event by the square root of the racial shade difference between you.
This is not Monday Morning Quarterbacking.
This is Friday, pregame, “don’t punt on first down” tactical advice I give all my students who (plan to) carry firearms.
They don’t CARE that Zimmerman was justified in shooting Martin.
Getting out of the car allowed Martin to BE the cliché he was.
And their Soft Bigotry of Low Expectations demand ZIMMERMAN be punished for it.
Know your enemy…Sun Tzu, or was it Macciavelli?
Probably both.
News flash people:
The enemy is The Thug,
AND The Media
AND The State.
Your every act, while armed, is a fight against all three of them simultaneously.
The last two want you JUST AS DEAD as the first one
If you carry a gun, you must THINK AHEAD and minimize that threat too.
Stupid? Probably.
Criminal? No.
It was his own neighborhood! How many neighborhood break-ins do you have to endure before it’s okay for the biggest, scariest guy you can recruit for your side, to follow suspicious young men that fit the description of the perps? What if your mom lived in that neighborhood?
Root ’83: If dispatchers play word games, then one can hardly blame Zimmerman. The business of not getting out of the car is a crock. It is neither illegal nor threatening to get out of one’s car to examine what’s going on.
So you’re saying it’s Zimmerman’s fault he was attacked? Should have known better to follow a thug like Trayvon huh?
There is a big difference between what is legal, and what is smart, people.
Know your enemy.
Its the State, and the Media, just as much as the thugs.
I’ve been a Firearms instructor for 30+ years…
Military, Law Enforcement and CCW holders are/were my “students”
The CCW holders get different “rules of engagement” training than police/military, and I PAINFULLY emphasise the logic/perception/liability issues when RESPONDING as an OUTSIDE THIRD PARTY to a NON-LETHAL event occuring OUTSIDE THEIR OWN PROPERTY, when carrying a firearm.
Involving yourself with a situation that has the potential for conflict while you are armed such as a tailgater/road rage incident, an argument between two drunks, someone leering at your wife, is almost always a bad idea.
YOU will be blamed if a shoot has to happen.
Because YOU KNEW you were armed.
Not because its “fair” but because thats how the world works. Your decisions to approach/involve yourself WILL be second guessed to death. You WILL have exculpable evidence supressed by a hostile press corps that distorts what happened, and The State WILL respond with face-saving political priorities as their first objective if the media heat makes them squirm.
Most Prosecutors, cops, D.A.’s etc are closet Facists/Statists anyway, and the fact you “stepped out of line” and dared to defend yourself with a gun, IRRITATES them to no end…they WILL procecute IF THEY THINK THEY CAN MAKE IT STICK….Not because they think youre guilty…just having a gun makes you guilty in their eyes, and they salivate at the chance to make an example out of you.
Mr. Zimmerman rolled a three-sided dice when he got out of his car.
1) He would have faced complaints from an “innocent” person, and be in an awkward spot when the cops arrived. Lucky not to be maced when the Blue Boys show up with (typically) bad info on who is who…BTW officer, I have a Gun?
2) He would be attacked by the “thug” and will have to shoot, and end up exactly where he is now
(see the above nature of The State and Media for explanation)
3) Nothing good or bad happens…nothing at all, and he goes home.
Not much to gain by rolling that dice, is there?
Lose, Lose, and nothing.
Show me the “win” folks…anyone…Bueller?…Beuller?
Or, how about I sit in the safety of my car, circle the block, and wait for the police I’m ALREADY in contact with approach that “suspicious guy” who “looks like he’s on drugs”
This is basic, common sense when armed, people.
When you are armed, you have to THINK AHEAD about how your actions will be PERCEIVED if the worst happens,
not just whether you are “within your rights” to do A,B or C.
Yes, its not fair. No, its not right.
But its PREDICTABLE.
Ask Mr. Zimmerman if it was worth it.
Was being within his “rights” to get out of his car to follow Martin, worth everything he’s now been put through?
When just a smidge of common sense, and a dash of thoughtful restraint was all that was needed to prevent his life from being destroyed.
“The business of not getting out of the car is a crock. It is neither illegal nor threatening to get out of one’s car to examine what’s going on”
You are 100% right.
Its not illegal
Its not threatening
Its just really, REALLY stupid, given the circumstances.
Heres one for ya:
Two drunks are staring at my wife. We’re in the restarant, they’re in the lounge.
I overhear some lewd comments about what they’d like to do to her, and we happen to end up in the parking lot at the same time when leaving.
I’m also, Armed…
Do I approach them to find out “what the problem is” because “these a**holes” have upset my world view of right, wrong, and the guilty always going free?
And when my “lone” presence against the two of them makes the “brave”, and they decide they can “take me”, so fight starts….
and I eventually have to shoot them both….
Do I REALLY believe a procecutor ISNT going to try nailing may ass to a wall?
That going up to those two rude assholes with a CCW was a perfectly sane, rational, responsible thing to do?
That I have no obligation to read the situation, consider the implications if it goes “bad”, and just plain AVOID it altogether, because of the (Blazing-Strobe-light-Neon Sign) obvious risks??
News flash: People go to JAIL for shit like that…perhaps unjustly, but their IS a tendency among procecutors AND juries to think “you should have known better” and give you some jail time when lives are lost in an incident that could have been avoided.
Youre techinally “innocent” of the 2nd degree murder/manslaughter charge but they will find you guilty because of the “what a clueless JERK” emotion your (legal) but stupid behavior created in them.
People who carry guns need to realize that fact, and act accordingly.
If that offends you, then you are simply too immature to BE armed in the first place.
Root ’83 – To critcize Zimmerman for getting out of the car is to assume that Zimmerman could anticipate what would happen. Most people are not that prescient to anticipate that something would escalate to the level it did.
I agree just because witness saw Travon on top, Zimmerman could have attacked first. Witness statement doesnt mean anything unless they had seen it all
The difference between Ignorance and Stupidity is that Ignorance can be overcome.
Although I understand the role of a professional police dept. I have not entirely conceded the entire world to them. I don’t see a body laying on the ground, announce it to 911 and carry on rollerskating away with my iPod.
Self-evident truths mean exactly that – it means there is a point beyond which we concede nothing, absolutely nothing – not a place for argument. I do not concede that I have no right to go up to someone who in my judgment is up to no good. Many times in my life I’ve found lurkers, peeping Toms, people casing cars to break in and the like. I so far have been wrong 0% of the time when my instincts kicked in.
This is because suspicious behavior in certain settings is not rocket science, but something rather easily sorted out. Regardless of whether Martin was actually lurking or not, he evidently was doing something Zimmerman felt at the very least merited some further looking into. Sure, in a strictly academic thought experiment, if Zimmerman had just walked away, Martin would be alive. But where in the world is it incumbent on me or anyone else to walk away?
Martin did not deserve to die. But for liberals to act like no one in that situation says “What the f–k business of it is yours what I’m doing motherf–ker?” followed by physical intimidation sure as hell hasn’t been living in the world I’ve been living in. Asking someone to stop yelling on their cell phone on a city bus in broad daylight is generally a declaration of war.
Reporters have gone up to drug dealers on streets in broad daylight and asked them what they were doing and been assaulted on camera. I’ve seen footage of reporters told they’d be shot and they fled – in residential neighborhoods. Don’t tell me the greatest lovers of intimidating thug life in American history are boy scouts waiting for buses at the back of apt. complexes. If you think that, I know streets in Rio de Janeiro where women wait for buses every night. Go up to them and ask for a “schedule” and they’ll tell you the program – that’s why they’re called “Program Girls.”
Bingo. Some things need no proof. They ARE self-evident.
To demand proof of these is to prove one’s own evil or dementia.
One of these is that the people ARE the authority, and cops are merely the hired help. We do NOT cede to the all right to confront evil.
You seem to be suggesting (without evidence) that Martin saw Zimmerman following him with a gun drawn, was concerned for his safety, and decided that the safest course of action open to him in that situation was to turn around (his was heading toward his father’s home at the time), confront Zimmerman, knock Zimmerman to the ground, and attack Zimmerman with his fists.
Really?
Isn’t it more likely that Martin didn’t know that Zimmerman was armed, took offense at being followed, and chose to assault Zimmerman?
Assuming that all the evidence is out at this point (which seems likely) it is clear that Zimmerman used poor judgement and Martine used even poorer judgement. The result was a tragic death. But not second degree murder.
Zimmerman didn’t use poor judgement – he was the neighborhood watch in a neighborhood that had had several break-ins. He stopped following when he lost sight of Martin (who was yards from his destination) while on the phone with the police.
Matrin DID use poor judgement and I’m sorry he’s dead, but if he hadn’t decided to confront Zimmerman (who is much smaller than Martin and probably looked like an easy target to a 17 year old noodlehead) this wouldn’t have happened.
Good summation.
Unfortunately, this situation is very likely to come to no good end. I am afraid the prosecution (as the tone was set by Corey) is going to do its best to make Zimmerman a sacrificial lamb at the altar of their goal to prevent race riots. We have already seen this pattern played out back when the OJ trial went down.
I pray for the day to come that whites get over their senseless feelings of guilt that allows them to be cowed by black thugs. It’s so unnecessary & it destroys innocent lives.
Has anyone seen the juvenile record of this so called victim? I understand it is lengthy and has been sealed. Will this be available to the defense attorney? If it is good why is it sealed? If it is sealed does that mean they want to keep it this way because it displays a pattern of violence? And will the defense be held in contempt if they show the first doctored news video and audio? Is the part of the justice system where they leave the blindfold on?
I so agree!
Um, stand your ground laws do not in any way provide “sanctioning a layman to assume the duties of an armed police officer”
Do you enjoy being this misinformed?
“apologize for sanctioning a layman to assume the duties of an armed police officer”
Please make your home address publicly available. I’m sure there is no shortage of criminals who would love to know that they can break into your house, steal what they want, and harm your family while you steadfastly refrain from ‘assuming the duties of an armed police officer’.
BRAVO! at age 18 I was an intended murder victim (I have 16 inches of skull fracture to prove it) I wished that I had the powers of a policeman or woman, but at the time I was legally unable to legally own or carry a pistol which might have changed my situation.
I spent 10 days in a coma at the hospital and another week learning how to walk again, actually I was not supposed to live, but I did. I spent the next 14 months mostly in bed and had to force myself to strengthen my legs to even run again, food did not taste right as well as other matters with a massive head injury as I had I was not supposed to get on an airplane because the pressure might cause further problems.
After a full recovery I went into the US Navy and was an Airdale and bought my second handgun in 1974, I have legally carried one ever since and have yet to injure or display unless asked to do so my weapon(s) of which I have several!
If you were to meet me on the street you would not give a second thought as to me having a gun ready to shoot you with but I do at all times, it only takes one time to be a victim that should have died to make you a believer in the use of deadly force and when to use it. First thing to remember is stay away from danger in the first place but if it comes around then do what you have to do, and let it get sorted out later!
You’re being ridiculous. First of all, Zimmerman wasn’t walking through the apartment complex waving his gun around. There was no way for Martin to know whether Zimmerman was armed. Second, if Martin afraid of the bad “white” man stalking him with a gun, why did he confront him? Did he want to get shot? Nobody’s that stupid. Why didn’t he run away? Why didn’t he call the cops? Why didn’t he duck into an apartment building until Zimmerman was gone? Maybe knock on some doors and ask for help? Why? Because he didn’t know Zimmerman had a gun. Like Zimmerman, Martin had several options that night. Evidently, he chose the stupid one: to get all up in his “stalker’s” face. Bad idea.
Hmmm. I think I have to disagree with you on that one point, Bugs.
“if Martin afraid of the bad “white” man stalking him with a gun, why did he confront him?”
Two points occur here, first of all who said Martin did confront him? We know from Zimmerman’s phone call to the police that it was the other way round. Secondly, let me get this straight: if the white man thinks the black man is dangerous he has a right to confront him; if the the black man thinks the white man is dangerous he must run away.
“Why didn’t he run away?”
Ditto for Zimmerman.
“Why didn’t he call the cops?”
Why didn’t Zimmerman LEAVE IT to the cops?
“Why didn’t he duck into an apartment building until Zimmerman was gone?”
Ditto for Zimmerman.
“Maybe knock on some doors and ask for help?”
Ditto for Zimmerman.
Like Zimmerman, Martin had several options that night. Evidently, he chose the stupid one:”
To stand his ground.
“to get all up in his “stalker’s” face. Bad idea.”
Especially bad when one considers the type of people who are likely to be the jurors.
There is absolutely no reason to believe either one of those things happened. They are both figments of your imagination. We don’t try people on figments of imbecilic imagination.
Again, a complete fabrication of your diseased mind.
You obviously know nothing about a “stand your ground” law. (This is typical of liberals.) It has nothing to do with this case. It does not even come close to “sanctioning a layman to assume the duties of an armed police officer”. The ONLY thing a “stand your ground law” does is to make clear that, if you are attacked, you do not have a duty to retreat. That’s it. That’s all.
There were NO instructions, explicit or otherwise. There was merely a statement that following Martin was not required by law enforcement. It’s a HINT, at most. Nor would it matter if had been “explicit instruction”. A dispatcher has no authority. None.
Oh, wait, there’s one other little fact you conveniently ignored. Zimmerman took the hint. He stopped following. He was on his way back when the punk jumped him.
Ooops.
sanctioning a layman to assume the duties of an armed police officer
The more insight I get into the mindset of people on the left, the more I want to retch.
Yep. Some philosopher once said, “The more you understand something, the easier it is to forgive.”
That philosopher was an idiot.
Some things, the more understood, are the more hated, and rightly so.
“In addition, Trayvon Martin’s father told an investigator after listening to 911 tapes that captured a man’s voice frantically calling for help that it was not his son”
So, was the 911 call from A. Zimmerman’s phone B. Trayvon’s phone or C. Someone else’s phone. To hear someone yelling would require the phone be awful close to the source. I’m going with A. which would back up Zimmerman’s story.
So, did Zimmerman follow Martin or did he go looking for an address (After being asked for one by the dispatcher) and return to his car to be attacked by a young thug?
The evidence doesn’t matter though. It’s purely a political trial, and he’s still going to be convicted, if not of this, then the inevitable federal hate crime charges,
You really think any juror in the country will want to be responsible for riots that will likely kill dozens? Not to mention possible retribution, like Spike Lee tried to do? They let them off, the jurors might well have to go into the witness protection program
They may decide not to go to trail afterall and if they can drag this out long enough (until after the election, into next spring, perhaps) this goes away.
Right now we have people who are using this politically to help obama (how strange is that?) to distract the public from what’s going on in the government. If they don’t have that stick to pound whitey with anymore the racebaitors (the ones paying people to show up at these protests) will move on to something else.
Looking for this story at slate?
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/crime/2012/04/witnesses_mary_cutcher_and_selma_mora_offer_their_account_of_what_happened_the_night_trayvon_martin_died_.html
Luscombeflyer,
It’s more than just the fact that the dispatch operator’s statement doesn’t necessarily read as a command. It’s that a 911 operator has no authority to command a citizen’s action or inaction in the first place.
My goodness, the kind of police state some people think (or wish) we lived in (looking at you here, Patriotnnn.)
The glove don’t fit…
Zimmerman was totally within his rights to follow Martin as long as he didn’t touch or obstruct him. Just saying Z followed M doesn’t mean a thing
Maybe, but becasue he left his truck it’s gives the prosecutor the opportunity to present an alternate theory that Z initiated the confrontation. Both sets of parents have claimed the screams on the tapes are their son’s and I don’t believe the experts can conclusively say who it is. While this weakens the media narrative that M was a defenseless victim gunned down by the heartless Z, there is plenty of reasonable doubt on all sides and this is far from over.
Both sets of parents have claimed the screams on the tapes are their son’s and I don’t believe the experts can conclusively say who it is.
Here’s an amazing fact of life. The guy on top – the one who is doing the pummelling and head banging – isn’t usually the guy calling for help.
Martin didn’t like being followed, so he attacked Zimmerman. This is a political trial. Zimmerman will be acquitted, or at worst have a hung jury, even if the corrupt prosecutor – who unbelievably shouted out “to Trayvon’s sweet parents” when she announced her decision to grossly overcharge Zimmerman – gets an all black jury.
You can acquit on reasonable doubt.
You can’t convict on reasonable doubt though… which is exactly what the media, the left, the black panthers, and now the white house wants.
Trayvons Father said, it was not his son’s voice screaming for help. They have also done a test pattern of the voice, it comes closer to matching Zimmermans voice.
“Will Bruce Springsteen also apologize …Rev. Al Sharpton, Spike Lee apologize,…”
But Martin still looked like the son Obama never had.
You know, that’s probably one of the truest political statements Obama has ever made.’
If he’d had a son, that son would almost certainly have been a thug.
+1. My nephews are about the same color as Trayvon Martin was, but they don’t look ANYTHING like Obama (especially the Marine, who is very scary if you’re Taliban, but just about everyone else in this country would be relieved if he came around the corner in a sketchy neighborhood).
His kids ain’t out of the woods yet. Best case scenario, they’ll be civil rights atty’s suing white people for white privilege and the New Jim Crow as a race in a class action law suit, Black People of the United States of America vs. White People of the United States of America.
Worst case? They’ll be just like their parents.
The fact that Trayvon was high makes him more than qualified to have become the preezy of the united steezy.
Sorry, left/liberals and Al Sharpton, Trayvon already got justice.
Amen.
No, that’s not true. Trayvon didn’t get everything he deserved. He deserved the rest of the magazine at point-blank range. Zimmerman is VERY lucky that he got a “one-shot stop” with a .380.
Trayvon started trouble with someone who was, in the end, prepared to handle the kind of problem Trayvon represented. That is generally a bad move, and in this case it was a fatal one. There is no one to blame for Trayvon’s death but Trayvon. If he had done what he should have done, which was go home, he would still be alive.
Keep rockin’. Case closed.
Justice? It has nothing to do with this.
He’s dead. There is no evidence that he had committed ANY illegal act which warranted the death penalty.
He very well might have, if he had lived, but we don’t execute people for crimes they MIGHT commit.
What happened wasn’t justice, it was natural consequences. Just like street racing, mountain climbing, or other high risk activities, the natural consequences often deal out harsh punishment. The stupider you are, the riskier it is. Mountain climbing with worn out ropes, for example, or skydiving with Army surplus parachutes.
When someone attacks another, there’s a risk that person is armed. That’s how it played out this time.
Natural consequences.
Not justice.
“There is no evidence that he had committed ANY illegal act which warranted the death penalty.”
Right up to the point Martin tried to bash Zimmerman’s head in with a 6,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 tonne rock.
There is no evidence that he had committed ANY illegal act which warranted the death penalty.
He did not receive the “death penalty”. Is there some congenital defect in the leftist mind which makes you all prone to compulsive dishonesty?
Citizens are legally permitted to use deadly force if they believe that their lives are in danger. Zimmerman had abundant reason to believe that his life was in danger and was entitled to use deadly force.
This is not, however, the “death penalty”. People can and do die in all sorts of circumstances without the “death penalty” being involved.
There is no credible evidence that Trayvon Martin attacked Zimmerman other than Zimmerman’s own claim. If he had punched Zimmerman as hard as Zimmerman claims, they would have been visible signs of this on Martin’s knuckles. Did the autopsy show such signs? As for the blood on Zimmerman – who says it was Zimmerman’s blood? Was it tested?
Liberalism is driven by emotion, in this case, hysteria. The role of reason is to justify the emotion. Hence consequences usually contradict their initial
“positon”. Instances like this are really the reduction to absurdity of Liberalism but this correct conclusion requires the use of..reason so Liberals will never learn.
PS I would think that the judge is likely to dismiss this case for lack of evidence to support the charge of Second Degree Murder.
on the other side, there’s the martin autopsy report which shows bruised and bloodied knuckles and one gunshot wound. i don’t know how the picture could be any clearer.
He didn’t have “bruised and bloodied knuckles.” He had a small abrasion, no more than a quarter-inch in size on his left ring finger below the knuckle. That would be a strange way to hit some one. And an abrasion is more consistent with hard contact with a rough solid surface – like the ground!
NPR’s H/L and in-depth reports were still doing the “…but…Zimmerman…but…the police…” thing.
I’m not sure it makes sense in this world to do anything but let yourself be pummeled by fists. It’s that or be pummeled by the system. But you’d probably still be on the hook for damages, having your face cause bloodied knuckles.
If I was walking through a neighborhood at night and a man came up to me and said “I’m with neighborhood watch and we’ve had some break-ins in the neighborhood…” I wouldn’t physically assault him. If Zimmerman intended to shoot Martin I don’t think he would have called the police first. If Zimmerman had intended to shoot Martin then Zimmerman wouldn’t have any injuries because Martin would have been dead before he ever laid a hand on Zimmerman.
Oh, just shut up.
Nobody wants to hear your logic.
I hope Zimmerman is able to cash in on NBC/Comcast before they go broke.
The whole Trayvon Martin story has been illogical from the start.
Why did it take ten days for the story to hit the US media when the European press had been on it for a week? Time to sanitize Trayvon’s Facebook page, let Zimmerman’s injuries heal and craft the narrative? Time to mobilize the race pimps and politicians in a swing state during an election year? Time to alter the 911 tapes and transcripts?
If you were an armed racist bent on stalking and murdering a black child, would you call 911 before you shot him?
Is there any evidence that Zimmerman attacked Martin or made any physical contact that may have justified a retaliation?
Zimmerman lives in this complex. Did Zimmerman have a right to leave his vehicle?
Do residents of a gated community have a right to ask strangers wandering about at night why they are there?
My criticisms of Zimmerman are that he didn’t shoot earlier, he didn’t shoot twice and he didn’t bring enough gun. That sounds callous, but it’s not. A handgun gives you distance. Had Zimmerman been more vigilant and drawn his weapon before Trayvon closed on him, the encounter might well have ended right there.
Why did it take ten days for the story to hit the US media when the European press had been on it for a week?
Because Europe loves to use any gun shooting stories from the wild and wooley gun loving US of A to justify their own gun control laws.
Now, go back over the European sites and see if you can find any stories about the new evidence and how it may vindicate Zimmerman. You won’t. They don’t print those stories where gun use was justified.
Good point!
The motive I was questioning was not the European press; it was our press.
Remember the Rodney King beating tape? Within 6 hours half of Watts was on fire. No time required to craft an elaborate narrative and line up all the ducks.
Uh, no. That’s not what happened. The riots didn’t start until the verdict was announced. They had MONTHS to work up the rage. It was stated openly that an acquittal would mean riots.
Did Martin really jump Zimmerman? Or respond to something Zimmerman did to him? The person who might want to claim the latter is dead. Not every assault produces visible injuries. Nor does a wise man necessarily wait for the attacker to injure him. This is equally true of Martin and Zimmerman.
The “witnesses” saw the state of Zimmerman afterwards. They did not see Martin attack Zimmerman. The only evidence we have of such an “attack” comes from the man who survived to tell his version of events.
The lesson is clear. Black people should arm themselves and when they see the white guy reaching into his pocket, they should NOT take chances. Then afterwards, they should tell THEIR version of events.
“Black people should arm themselves…”
They already are. Many, many quite illegally too. No one under 21 can obtain a permit to carry or legally own a gun in many states. Certainly not street thugs and gangsters that use them and buy them on the street. So much for “gun” laws, eh?
Yes its interesting that 21 is the minimum age for carrying a gun or drinking, but you can vote and serve in the armed forces at 18.
Angela will try the case. Maybe add charges of treason, rape, kidnapping, crimes against humanity, genocide and that white supremacist hunter-killer charge. Oh, and having a bike without a license.
Holder will charge Zimmerman. Most likely in October as part of the final push by Obama to “fire up” the black vote.
Next in line will be the much anticipated (by Martin’s family) civil suit against Sanford and the State of Florida for wrongful death. Zimmerman will be included just to make it a suit but the millions expected will be from the public.
Rodney King was the model and Rodney King outcomes are hoped for.
What’s next? Proof showing up Obama was born in Kenya…oh wait…
Sometimes I wonder why when Al Sharpton shows up in places like this, he doesn’t get arrested for inciting a riot? He almost started one when he went down to Florida after the shooting and probably is going to be responsible for the riots that take place after Zimmerman is found innocent. The prosecution was stupid in trying to get a second degree murder conviction against Zimmerman. At best they could have hoped for was a manslaughter conviction, and even that is in doubt now that all the information is coming out that Zimmerman probably did fear for his life and probably was justified in defending himself.
But what I never understood was, why was Zimmerman, acting as a guard in some gated community, allowed to carry a gun in the first place? Why not just a tazer or some other device that would have incapacitated a suspected robber rather than kill him? Zimmerman was armed just like a police officer, which he most certainly was not. If Zimmerman was guilty of anything, it was that of impersonating an officer, because this guy should have simply called the cops and waited for help. If Martin did attack him, he could have used a tazer, pepper spray, or a night stick to fight back with, but not a gun. Zimmerman was carrying a lot of firepower for someone who was not a cop.
If I am not mistaken, Zimmerman had a concealed-carry permit.
I wonder why no one has made the observation that if Zimmerman had not been armed, would he have lost his life? If that had been the case, no one would be discussing this case.
“But what I never understood was, why was Zimmerman, acting as a guard in some gated community, allowed to carry a gun in the first place?”
He was not “on duty” with the neighborhood watch at the time. He was either on his way to, or back from, the grocery store when he spotted a stranger acting oddly.
He was carrying a pistol because he has a CCW. Since he was not on duty, there was no “allowing” or concern for policy. His membership in the neighborhood watch is immaterial, except as a hook for the press to try to paint him as a vigilante.
” If Martin did attack him, he could have used a tazer, pepper spray, or a night stick to fight back with, but not a gun. ”
Bullsh!t.
I guess you’re from one of those “states” that denies your second amendment rights?
And you probably think cops can / do / should “protect” you too?
Cops are reactive to crime…not proactive. There’s no way any cop is obligated to “protect” you.
They are however obligated to draw a chalk line around your body after you called them and by
the time they arrive to “protect” you.
1. It’s PERSONATING a police officer, not impersonating.
2. You can only personate a police officer by illegally claiming to BE an officer, that is carrying a badge you haven’t earned, and claiming that you are what you are not.
Zimmerman didn’t DO that. He never stated that he was a police officer (to my knowledge) nor did he carry a badge or other ID which would give the impression that he was a sworn officer when he was in fact not.
Martin had THC in his blood, so he had at some point been ingesting/smoking marijuana or some other substance containing THC. That alone could account for the reason he decided to attack Zimmerman. A case of bad-ass syndrome, cured with lead medicine. Too bad, who knows what young Trayvon could have become once he got through his youthful stupidity.
This could’ve easily been a white youth or a hispanic youth. I don’t buy for a minute the idea that Zimmerman was a racist.
“PERSONATING”
Uh…what?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_impersonation
“who knows what young Trayvon could have become once he got through his youthful stupidity…”
Given his already extensive , budding record….I’d say he would have made inmate status pretty soon. He was well on the way out of juvvy protection and into a nice Florida prison.
Really? What is this record?
His “record” was various suspensions, drug possession, burglar tools and items “not belong to him”?
I understand some of the “records” are sealed…because he was still a juvenile…as all such records are sealed. But if anyone can see the transition from 14 years ( press desired photos not current ones ) old to his current “nolimitnigga” ( his Twitter or FB handle ) handle, dress, tats and gold bridge work…it’s clear to me he was well on his way to a self promoting gangster status.
I mean PROVABLE criminal record of actual convictions – not arrests, suspensions or allegations.
A 9MM is not “a lot of firepower,” especially if your assailant is on drugs.
Been shooting center fire pistols since 1962 and reloading handgun and rifle cartridges since 1964. My collection includes 45s, 9 MM and 380s.
In 1906, US troops found 38 long colts ineffective against drugged Moro tribesmen with machetes. The 38 is 0.002″ larger than the 9MM. Although the 9MM is a higher velocity round, neither did enough tissue damage to stop a Jihadi.
The answer was John Moses Browning’s .45 Automatic Colt Pistol round with a diameter of 0.451″. The 45 ACP makes a much bigger hole and dissipates all of its energy in the target. Gabby Giffords was shot in the forehead at point blank range with a 9MM. Fortunately, she came out of ICU 11 days later. Had Jared Loughner had a Model 1911, she would not have survived.
That’s absolutely terrible firearms history. It’s impossible to predict what will happen when a person is shot with any caliber handgun.
The problems with the 38LC had nothing to do with its caliber.
Zimmerman wasn’t even carrying a round as powerful as 9mm (aka 9x19mm, aka 9mm Luger). He was carrying .380, aka 9mm short, which is a less powerful round than standard 9mm.
Wow. If this isn’t parody, it’s surely a steaming pile of ignorance and stupidity.
He wasn’t “acting as a guard”. He was keeping an eye on his neighborhood, just like every good citizen should.
It’s his right as an American citizen. Have you heard of something called, the “Constitution”? There’s something in it called, “the Second Amendment”. You should try reading it some time.
Because tasers are pretty close to useless for self defense. They are useful for law enforcement IN SOME SITUATIONS who work under very different circumstances than a citizen who is simply defending himself. Nor is the “suspected robber” relevant. He was not shot because he was a suspected robber. He was shot because he was engaged in a violent and potentially fatal attack against a law-abiding citizen.
No, he was carrying a dinky little .380, which is used as a backup gun by some cops, but is not issued to ANY cops because it’s simply not very powerful.
Oh, so having a gun is now impersonating an officer? That’s pretty stupid even for a leftist.
Uh, that’s exactly what he did.
See comments on tasers above. The same holds true for pepper spray (which is better than nothing, most of the time, but just barely).
A nightstick requires significant skill to use effectively, and is not likely to be effective against a stronger attacker, especially when one is pinned to the ground under that attacker.
It’s the most appropriate choice for the intended purpose.
No, he was carrying a dinky .380, which is considered bare minimum for a defensive caliber by most authorities, and BELOW bare minimum by others.
This is pretty amazing. There is NOTHING in what you said that makes any sense! That’s quite an achievement.
Excellent summation…thanks!
Zimmerman was carrying a lot of firepower for someone who was not a cop.
Behold the mind of the totalitarian left!
Because tasers and pepper spray are useless for self-defense. However, if your goal is to motivate a would-be rapist or mugger to murder you on the spot, then they are perfect for the job!
“Zimmerman was carrying a lot of firepower for someone who was not a cop.”
Only in the mind of a liberal is a .380 pistol considered “a lot of firepower”. In reality, Zimmerman was carrying one of the weakest pistol calibers available to man, second only to perhaps the .22LR. What makes your statement even more hilarious is that Zimmerman, if he chose to do so, could have had any number of weapons in his truck that would ACTUALLY constitute “a lot of firepower” – shotguns, short-barrel rifles, even a .50 caliber bolt-action, if he could afford it. And most amusing is the fact that, unbeknownst to your hamster-powered dozen brain cells, Zimmerman can legally own and transport any or all of those weapons.
One word: Nifong
From what is on the public record, Mr. Zimmerman is undoubtedly not guilty of the crime of which he is charged. But. It is reported that perhaps 10% of the evidence is still sealed. This division of open and closed information requires the concurrence of the judge and opposing attorneys.
My questions is what is behind the veil? And why the charge? From the cards dealt and face up, the judge may well throw the case out. The prosecutor is now liable to perjury ( She can not charge some one without supporting evidence; her charge would be a lie to the court, perjury.) But she knows this.
I can only identify one of two realistic scenarios. She has an ace hidden, perhaps an eye witness, which if not conclusive, supports her case. And/or, overriding pressure, which will throw her under the bus, resulting in an acquittal for second degree murder of a black man, right in the middle of a Presidential campaign.
This sorrow has not yet ended. Citizens should remain alert, and withhold judgement.
The prosecutor CANNOT have any hidden evidence. Withholding evidence from the defense is itself a criminal act.
Ask Mr. Nifong about that one.
It’s possible that some of the evidence is sealed, but it still has to be shared with the defense, who would be obligated to keep it confidential, but the circumstances have to be pretty extraordinary to seal any evidence.
Also ask Sandusky’s attorneys.
His trial for alleged child molestation starts in 3 weeks and the prosecution is refusing to release the names of the alleged victims.
Not refusing to release them to the public.
Refusing to release them to the defense lawyers.
Ditto. The prosecutor hides evidence, then produces it at trial- it’s inadmissable, and grounds for a mistrial.
I am going to show off my preternatural powers of prognostication: To the left this will make no difference at all. None of the “lynch Zimmerman” mob is going to apologize or retract anything. And if Zimmerman goes to trial and is acquitted, there will be riots across the country, much property will be lost, and my guess is some people will lose their lives, all because no one, not even the president, saw fit to say, “Let’s step back from this and see what the evidence shows.” There have already been a number of verified incidents where whites were assaulted or beaten on a “revenge for Trayvon? theme.
And neither then nor now nor in the future will the left look at itself and ask whether it has contributed to the “climate of violence” that it claims Sarah Palin did by putting a target on her website. For that matter, there will be a fair amount of political violence, all spurred by the left, and the left will continue to scorn the Tea Parties for “the climate of violence.”
Meanwhile, the same weekend Trayvon was killed nine young black men were murdered in Chicago. Their names are forgotten and no one will ask what we should do to try to prevent more of this, well, except “shove more money.”
“Meanwhile, the same weekend Trayvon was killed nine young black men were murdered in Chicago. Their names are forgotten and no one will ask what we should do to try to prevent more of this, well, except “shove more money.””
Not entirely true. The call to disarm the law-abiding will get a little louder.
“And will Spike Lee apologize for making public what he thought was the address of Zimmerman’s family…”
Thumb-tack (he too small to be a spike) Lee will dealt with.
What I have never heard and could be very telling:
Where were the gunshot wounds on Martin?
Do any of you know?
.
Last I heard / read it was from 4 to 18 inches away and into the heart.
The “evidence” suggests that Martin had a flathead screwdriver and women’s jewelry in his back pack.
The “evidence” (which comes from eyewitnesses, statements to the police, INCLUDING those by the parties…it’s called testimony…is that Zimmerman stopped following Martin after a DISPATCHER THAT HE CALLED FOR ASSISTANCE BECAUSE OF SUSPICIOUS ACTIVITY IN HIS HOME COMMUNITY told him “we don’t need you to do that.
The suspicious activity was based upon the following:
1)Martin was wandering around like HE WAS ON DRUGS OR SOMETHING
2)He’s looking around (as if he’s casing dwellings)
3)A number of dwelling had been victimized with break in robberies in the recent past
4)It was Zimmerman’s job and DUTY to be a watch CAPTAIN for the community
There is ZERO evidence that Zimmerman confronted Martin.
There is ZERO evidence that Zimmerman began any physical altercation
There is ZERO evidence that Martin had a single other injury, bruising, swelling, cut or abrasion…of ANY TYPE caused by Zimmerman before the gun shot
There is ZERO evidence that Zimmerman did or said anything of a racial nature, EVER during the entire scenario, other than respond to a direct question of whether the suspicious individual looked black or Hispanic and he replies “He LOOKS black”…implying even a hint of doubt, not certainty about the genetic makeup of Martin by Zimmerman.
In the event of a spate of recent invasions and thefts, what WOULD a watch captain do if he saw suspicious activity other than call the police and keep the suspicious character within his sights so that he tell the police PRECISELY where he is when they arrive?
The suggestion that “following” Martin was stupid, aggressive, or wrong…is a residual effect of the NBC/ABC/Sharpton Inversion Narrative…painting Zimmerman out to be a racist on a mission to lynch.
In light of the evidence, Zimmerman didn’t do a damn thing wrong, inappropriate or threatening, much less racial…in the entire incident.
He did a watch captain’s job for his neighbors and he got smeared, slandered and libeled for it. By NBC…with malice aforethought. By ABC who clearly intentionally fuzzied up the pictures of his clear injuries.
If his head was being slammed into the pavement hard enough to cause it to bleed, he could believe he was in legitimate fear of severe bodily harm or even death if the physical assault continued. At that point, if he reasonably feared for his life, pulling his gun FOR THE FIRST TIME…since it was STILL HOLSTERED…was a choice seemingly not taken immediately…but only AFTER he cried for someone to help him. When nobody did and Martin continued and even escalated the physical attack and after Zimmerman cried for help…and possibly after Martin went for his gun…he made the split second decision to not be shot himself and not have his head slammed against the concrete any longer.
If that is your case and your evidence, ladies and gentlemen….there is no case against Zimmerman. There’s a case against Martin. And NBC. And possibly ABC. And possibly Slate.
Any further prosecution of this case is malicious prosecution, a state action based upon race…which is a violation of Zimmerman’s civil rights.
But facts and evidence have never been important to this administration when it comes to law enforcement. The Blank Panters put a hit out on Zimmerman. But we already know that they get a pass. The “teaching moment” in the Gates incident should have been for GATES to have been taught and that the police DON’T act stupidly. It wasn’t.
This administration is intentionally the most divisive in our history.
And this case stinks to high hell.
The above poster is right in all details. The fact that ONE investigator has an opinion on whether or not Zimmerman should have followed Martin is irrelevant. As a former career detective in Florida, working similar cases, the legal fact is Zimmerman had the right to get out and follow anyone for anything, especially if as a citizen he felt a crime might be in progress. I comment in depth on this at my website: http://www.truthandcommonsense.com I’ve seen some pretty stupid decisions made by detectives and equally idiotic opinions as well. They are human like everyone else, and their “opinion” is like a rear end, everyone has one. It is the facts that matter.
As for the confrontation, it is a two way street. Martin obviously decided to confront Zimmerman instead of going home. Martin decided to jump Zimmerman instead of talking to him. Martin decided to use a level of violence clearly intended to do serious bodily harm and death by pounding Zimmerman’s skull into the pavement. It was Martin’s choices that did him in, not Zimmerman’s. One black commentator remarked that Martin was shot “WWB” (walking while black), I say that Martin was shot “SWT” (shot while thuggin’). And the facts coming out prove me right.
(http://truthandcommonsense.com/2012/04/13/the-best-summation-yet-on-the-zimmermanmartin-shooting-includes-the-map/)
Also, there is the little reported fact that Zimmerman had a history with the command staff in the police department when he forced the son of one of them to admit to beating a black homeless man for fun. I’m sure that plays into this at some level. One would wonder the relationship between the detective who is “Don Quixote-ing” the attempt to get Zimmerman punished and that commanding officer. Apparently, that detective had repeated contacts with Martin’s father encouraging this dust up.
As for the special prosecutor charging Zimmerman and holding back crucial evidence in the PC affidavit, I can only hope the law will reach out and take her license like Nifong’s. (http://truthandcommonsense.com/2012/04/22/an-old-civil-rights-warrior-offers-his-disappointment-and-disgust-over-the-zimmerman-shooting-his-points-are-valid/)
We crossed into some very dangerous territory. We have prosecutors arresting an innocent man in order to avoid the repeat of the King riots by a certain element of our society which apparently have not advanced one step from 1992. We have a governor willing to arrest and target a man for political expediency. We have a MSM that will falsify and produce “evidence” in order to get rating, regardless of how many innocent people are killed or maimed by their actions. We have a MSM that is so lazy or corrupt they want only to appease their masters or be loved by those in power, even though that desire destroys their professional credibility. We have state and national politicians willing to start a race war in order to get reelected.
Amazing. And some guy, in one state, trying to do the right thing on a rainy night, exposed it all.
Does anyone really think that Rev Jackson or Rev Sharpton will ever apologize for their inflammatory rhetoric ?
Or that the Black Panthers will withdraw their bounty?
Or that poor excuse for a Congresswoman fron Florida who accused Zimmerman of “Hunting Travon down like a dog and murdering him”. Will ever admit being wrong.?
They should all be called as witnesses during Zimmerman’s trial and asked to explain why they convicted him before any facts were ever public.
“Congresswoman from Florida”
Frederica Wilson with the obscenely, silly cowboy hats? Yea…another genius in the same screechy mold as Jordan, Rangel and Waters. All three haven’t the IQ of a hat rack.
So following somebody is now grounds for 2nd degree murder, if the person you follow attacks you and you defend yourself. Are we now in bizarro land? Following him might have been unwise, but criminal, no way. The only way the prosecution would have any case at all is if they had proof that zimmerman actually started the fight, by throwing the first punch, or prove the fight was mutually started by both men, and even that would not justify 2nd degree murder, at most manslaughter. And it appears the prosecution does not have that proof. Following somebody is not the same as starting a fight with them, and it is completely bizarre to suggest that it is.
If you are sneaking through my neighborhood at night, I’m going to check you out…we used to have people trespassing in our gated neighborhood…call the cops and they get there too late…now I follow them until they leave, and I am armed for my protection. No police, just good old citizen concern
Yes and No. Zimmerman still has a very uphill defense battle.
What is left out of this article is that George Zimmerman called the police while Trayvon Martin called his girlfriend. Who was more likely looking for trouble? A jury is going to be expected to believe that this event would not have happened if Zimmerman had not followed Martin but ignore the fact that it most assuredly would not if Martin had not attacked. If Zimmerman had not been armed and had died, or recieved substantial injuries from Martin, would Martin be justified? Not likely. Everyone lost in this scenario. Martin is dead and his family will suffer this for the remainder of their lives. Zimmerman is charged with murder and he and his family will suffer from this for the rest of their lives. Unfortunately, all of this tragedy didn’t stop the race hustlers from using this case to further their own agenda.
Consider these three categories of young black strangers walking in Zimmerman’s neighborhood: (A) The number of young black men who wandered there looking for something to steal, (B) The number of young black male pedestrians foreign to the neighborhood who were visiting people who did live there, and (C) The number of young black men strangers walking into Zimmerman’s neighborhood without evil intent for any other reason.
Martin was in category (B), but Zimmerman did not know this. If category (A) was by far the largest of the three (and I think this is likely), then it was PERFECTLY reasonable for Zimmerman to suspect that Martin was up to no good.
In the past, when Zimmerman reported suspicious-looking people to the police, they arrived too late. This may have been by design, as a cop who arrives too late is not going to find himself in a dangerous situation in which someone who might or might not be armed appears to be going for a gun. But given the history of slow police response, Zimmerman’s only option to protect the neighborhood was to follow Martin until the police arrived.
It turned out that Martin did not have larceny on his mind. I suspect he attacked Zimmerman in outrage at having been profiled or dissed. Martin was shot, not out of any judgement that he deserved to die, but because Zimmerman did not deserve to suffer a likely permanent brain injury.
Yes, Zimmerman made a few tactical decisions. Having neither fighting skills nor a non-lethal weapon at hand, he should have avoided the danger of leaving his car. A lack of perfect wisdom, however, does not obligate one to choose between a felony conviction versus brain damage (or even death).
Sadly, unless a man is convicted of a serious crime of which he is essentially innocent, we are likely to suffer a number of violent riots and murders. How did we get into this situation?
It started when Martin’s parents hired publicity agents to sell a slanted story of a wrong that needed righting. Perhaps they did this because police did not bother to show Martin’s parents the evidence indicating that this was a tragedy and not a racist murder with impunity. That was not maliciousness on the part of police; that was sheer laziness — a disregard for the feelings of people who are not in the chain of command. But maybe that’s not normally the job of police. Maybe it should have been put before a Grand Jury — not because the prosecutor expected the prosecute, but merely as a vehicle for displaying the evidence in a case that was not simply open-and-shut.
Anyways, this has all the making of a Greek tragedy.
Actually, WE don’t know that, either. The evidence suggests a strong possibility that he was in category (A).
Yes, the after-the-fact evidence indicates that he had been suspected of breaking into lockers at his high school (but to be fair, he was suspended for drugs, not because he was caught using his larceny tools)
Evidence-schmevidence. Martin’s parents would have cared a lick for the truth. I remember in Norfolk a 16 year black kid was shot by police. The sympathetic media of course raced like Batman and Robin to his parents’ house to shove microphones in their face and all the viewers heard was “what a good boy he was.” And the standard fare of accusations of profiling and black genocide. Turns out this sixteen year old was in a stolen car, that had been in a chase with police, and he was attempting to run over an officer when they opened fire. His juvenile rap sheet was a mile long, but, you know, he was such a good boy.
“Now, the only remaining issue is the argument that the prosecutors will evidently make: If Zimmerman had not followed Martin and instead taken the advice of the police to stay put, nothing would have happened and Martin would not have been killed.”
Irrelevant argument. The only relevant facts pertain to what actually happened in regards to the physical confrontation. Was Zimmerman justified in using deadly force or not. So far, the facts support Zimmerman. That the prosecutor could stand in front of the TV cameras and state that her decision to bring charges was not political, is a joke and a bald faced lie. It was entirely political.
Based upon the Canadian Mentality…..being armed is evidence of premeditation….is the sole basis for the second degree murder charge.
That’s liberal thought incarnate. You had a gun, you must be looking for trouble. If you hadn’t had a gun, a Care Bear riding a unicorn would have descended from on high to ignite the heart of everyone involved with a love and understanding, and there would never have been a need for violence.
It’s the same happy horse-pucky they peddle globally. If we didn’t have such a powerful military the world would love us.
No matter how they spin it George Zimmerman was in fear for his life. To say that just because you follow someone , you deserve what you get is completely crazy. I have followed people and had people follow me. They ask what I am doing and I answer them. To turn around and coldcock Zimmerman was uncalled for. Trayvon was the one who escellated it to the point George Zimmerman was in fear of his life . Trayvon should have turned around and say ” I am visiting “. After that everyone would be safe at home. It take a certain amount of burning inside anger to get to the point where you physically beat someone for asking a question. The prosecution is way way too aggressive on this case. 2nd degree homicide is as wrong of a charge as a charge can get. I am hoping cooler heads will prevail and the judge will dismiss the case.
Reading is fundamental, Steve. You really need to try it on the whole thread to which I was replying.
Let me try to help you:
Someone stated that Martin got “justice”. I was pointing out that “justice” (a LEGAL concept) had nothing to do with it. Zimmerman is not the legal system, and he was not acting to punish a crime.
He was defending himself. As a result, Martin died.
That’s not justice. Nor is it INjustice.
That’s something entirely different, having nothing to do with justice. It’s a different category entirely.
Karma.
“justice” (a LEGAL concept)
Justice is a moral concept before it is a legal one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlkhQ6GybPs&feature=related
The argument for self defense is eloquently stated here by Ted Nugent. The 2nd amendment is my concealed weapons permit. No free man, regardless of race, creed or religion needs another mans permission to defend his life. I will NEVER get a CCW permit and woe be it to any person who decides to do me harm. AL Sharpton and his ilk ought to think twice before starting a race war – they will lose simply based on the numbers. Black folks make up about 20% of the population and the trouble makers are a small percentage of that. They will be the first ones to go when it starts then maybe the rest of us decent folks of every race can get about living an honest life.
I want equality for all people but as a white man I’m damn tired of being blamed for all of America’s and the world’s ills and if push comes to shove I, and by extension my family, intend to be the last man standing.
I couldn’t care less what any liberal naysayer thinks about me as a result and there are a lot more people like me than liberals think.
The more revelations the less guilty Zimmerman appears. He was an appointed Neighborhood Watch Captain. He was making his scheduled patrol of his community. The entire conversation between he and the dispatcher totally backs up his account of the events. He broke off the tailing when advised to do so, he provided a description of who he was observing as requested by the dispatcher, NBC has fired two individuals who edited the conversation to make it appear racially charged. The Al Sharptons of this mess need to be held accountable for attempting to incite riot.
“Now, the Florida district attorney has released 67 CDs of evidence…”
How about just releasing 10 DVDs?
Gang,
Here’s a really important article on George that should be read and recommended:
http://news.yahoo.com/inside-george-zimmermans-world-101800286.html
It pretty much dispels any possibility that he was a racist and stalked Martin. His purchase of a gun was actually on a recommendation … from the police!
In an earlier similar incident, in a phone call to the police, he is quoted as saying “I don’t want to approach him, personally.”
Lots of other good background information about what had been going on in the neighborhood.
In my view, it is way too early to conjecture about the guilt or innocence of Mr. Zimmerman. Even in light of last Thursday’s evidence dump, there are still many unanswered questions that need to be asked and answered. For instance: Where was Zimmerman when he was told by the police dispatcher (regarding his following of Martin) “We don’t need you to do that” and he replied “OK”? Did he turn around and walk back toward his car? Where did the altercation occur in relation to his car? Where were the Skittles found? Where was the Ice-T found? Obviously, Martin put those items down prior to the altercation, but where? At the scene of the altercation? Near the front door of Martin’s house? Somewhere in between? The location where those items were found could reveal a lot about who the actual instigator of the attack was. And while we’re at it, what was the status of the gun? Was the spent cartridge shell still in the chamber (indicating the gun had failed to cycle)? Or, had that spent shell been ejected from the gun, and if so where was it recovered? Answers to those questions could shed more light on whether or not there was a struggle for the gun. Answers to those questions (and more) were probably answered at the scene by the officers prior to the arrest. And yes, there was an arrest of Zimmerman that night, as clearly depicted in the video of him walking handcuffed through the police station’s sallyport prior to his release. He was arrested, but not booked. Clearly, a young man was dead and there was sufficient probable cause to make an arrest, but upon further investigation the officers determined that there was not enough probable cause to book him. In my view, the officers at the scene and their supervisors did their jobs competently and professionally.
The Dershowitz link is broken http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alan-dershowitz/new-forensic-evidence-is-_b_1527972.html
No matter if some one searches for his required thing, therefore he/she desires to be available that in detail, thus that thing is maintained over here.