J Street Day 3: The Dennis Ross Speech, the J Street Response, and My Final Thoughts about J Street
The discussants:
At this point, Ross left, leaving the announced commentators to have to respond without Ross there to answer their questions and deal with their criticism. Clearly, the administration had told him that this was to be avoided. All of the respondents expressed their frustration and dissatisfaction at having to discuss Ross’s views without his presence.
The discussants were Bernard Avishai, whose recent article I discussed last week, and which was dissected carefully by his old friend, journalist Sol Stern; Roger Cohen, editorial writer and former foreign editor at The New York Times; and Daniel Levy, a leading leftist critic of Israel who was a former negotiator for Israel at the Taba peace conference and is now in residence at the New American Foundation in Washington, DC.
Avishai began by essentially reiterating the points in his Times magazine article, and pleading with the administration to put pressure on both Israel and the Palestinian Authority to pick up where former PM Olmert of Israel and Abbas left off, when, according to him, they essentially had reached an agreement that would have brought peace to Israel.
He would be happier, he said, if the administration showed they were able to produce “more of Dr. Kissinger and less of Dr. Phil.” The U.S. had to be a party to a solution, and that Ross served five different administrations clearly was not enough. The elements of a deal were well known, and had been attained at Taba, Geneva, and Oslo. The administration had to embrace them publicly, and had to organize world opinion on behalf of these goals, winning both the Arab and the Israeli street. By adopting these principles, Avishai argued, they could create an organized body of opinion that supported them, creating international momentum and pressure on all sides to adopt the old Olmert-Abbas plan, as he called it. Avishai did not address what Stern and I asked him in private conversation; i.e., what would he do about the sticking point of the so-called Palestinian refugees, and their continued demand for accepting “the right of return”? Avishai thinks this is a moot point; others believe — as the former chief negotiator Saeb Erekat always has said — that no Palestinian leader would abandon that right. This, of course, means no agreement.
Next, Daniel Levy won thunderous applause by reiterating what clearly is J Street’s position: “18 years after Oslo,” Levy said, “the occupation and the settlements cannot continue, and without this being settled, there can be no negotiations.” His clear implication was that Israel had to do this first, and only then could negotiations take place. In other words, the Palestinian demands had to be addressed before there could be any negotiations, a position that no sound Israeli government could ever accept.
Controversial Israeli Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman, Levy said, was “the bastard child of a demographic analysis,” and proof that the occupation had to end. “The Palestinians,” he stated — again to a huge ovation — “could not have rights without an end to the occupation.” The U.S. should not indulge Israel in holding onto the fantasy that the country can continue as it has.
To date, he argued, the U.S. had maintained the cold peace in the Middle East that was based on a relationship with the respective military, which kept dictators like Mubarak in power in order to placate Israel. Our purpose should not be to “arrange the surrender of the Palestinians,” but to seize the opportunity now to help build a new school of “realists” in Israel who understand — although they are not J Street peacniks — that Israel must immediately get out of the territories and end the occupation. The U.S. had to give Israel a wake-up call, rather than indulge in its fantasies, and make Israel’s life harder by forcing its people to deal with the real facts. There had to be, he said, an end to irredentist claims, and Israel had to change its view of what measures gave it real security. The issue was that of accepting the broad legitimacy of the Palestinians’ demands, including their demand for a free Gaza.
Finally, Roger Cohen added his two cents to the get tough with Israel panel. The question was he put it, “whether a new Middle East will be met by an Old Israel that does not engage in new thinking.” The truth was contrary to the grim scenarios laid out by PM Benjamin Netanyahu, the man to whom all at J Street was the major sworn enemy of the forces working for peace in the Middle East. Contrary to Israel’s PM, Cohen said, there was not a jihadist waiting to come out of ever Arab in the Middle East. This is not Iran 1979, he argued; the Arabs wanted nothing but dignity and freedom, not Jihad.
Hence, Israel’s siege mentality had to be lifted. The societies against which the Arabs rebelled were rotten wood, in which leaders turned their own countries into personal fiefdoms in order to enrich themselves. The question to ask is why our country supported them for so long. Now, he argued, we must align ourselves with the new democracies which support our values. Of course, Israel is such a nation, and yet, Cohen, like the others, was most critical of its policies.
Obama, he said, was doing a good job, but needed to take things further. He had to see the hope and seize the moment, helping Israelis to make the psychological breakthrough they had to take to make peace. Obama, he said, should come to Israel, go to Jerusalem, and explain to Israelis that the US had it security at heart, but needed more from the US than military technology. He referred skeptically to Dennis Ross’s notation that the US gave Israel the iron dome system to defer rocket attacks. Israel needed something else than military aid; it needed to be pushed forward by the US so it could move towards peace. His assumption, as most of those at J Street, was that the impediments to peace came all from Israel. Israel, he said, had to show the Palestinians that it would take steps to allow them to move forward also.
Avishai then added that the US coddled Greater Israel and did not do what it could to allow Global Israel to show its face too. The U.S. had to take a stand, making it easier for future leaders like Tsipi Livnk to successfully take a stand. Daniel Levy then added and reiterated his main point: Israel had to withdraw from the territories, and allow the Palestinians to create their own state.
My final thoughts on J Street:
J Street, despite its proclamations, does not allow much diversity in its conference presentations. While in smaller concurrent sessions they did list speakers who appeared on panels in which they were outnumbered, but clearly had positions most of J Street disagreed with, on the large plenary sessions, the speakers were all with one point of view: Israel must take the steps to peace, and meet Palestinian demands before negotiations.
The Kadima speakers had previously announced they would speak out against what they had learned was J Street’s one-sided positions, but at their panel, they failed to do what they had said earlier. Instead, they had a somewhat interesting discussion on Israeli politics, the prospects of Labor Party renewal, and their own backgrounds.
What J Streeters call their “pro-peace” and “pro-Israel” community, for all I could see, was in essence a movement to protest Israeli policies supported by the mainstream in Israel. Instead, while they clearly think they are pro-Israel, what they defend is the Israel of their imaginations—a mythical country in which Israel alone take steps to peace, which they assume will be met by Palestinian and Arab friendship, and in which hostility will cease, and Israelis will finally live in peace with their neighbors.
It is an understandable desire, but one which ignores reality: the hostility of many of its neighbors to the very idea of a Jewish State; the growth of radical Islam and jihadist movements pledged to destroy not only Israel, but all Jews; the impact of decades of anti-Semitic and Nazi views among the leaders of Palestinian and Arab societies, carried on since the days of the Grand Mufti and his Nazi allies.
The group also believes that a viable Israel must be fashioned as it wants—a left-wing “progressive” Israel, much like that favored by the founders’ generation and the age of the pre-eminence not only of Labor, but of leftist groups like Mapam and Hashomer Hatzair, remnants of which still exist and are listed as participants in the J Street program. They hark back to the good old days of a Marxist-Leninist segment among Israel’s leadership, of the old era in which the Haganah was led by Moshe Sneh, the founder of Israel’s Communist Party, and the predecessors of the Likud were an isolated group condemned by Israel’s leaders like Ben-Gurion and others.
Instead of the socialist Israel of their dreams, the reality they face is that of a technocratic, modern state, that has developed a modern society based on capitalism, as the socialist institutions of old like the kibbutz have faded into oblivion, and remains as a ghost of the earlier days of Israel.
No wonder that the only statements to excite the crowd were those most critical of Israel, those condemning Prime Minister Netanyahu and the current Israeli government, and those friendly to the Palestinian cause, which many of the J Street members see as their own. They continue to issue the refrain that they are pro-Israel, yet have panels like the one on the Boycott,Divestment and Sanctions movement (I was not able to attend this one) in which Bernie Avishai will speak to oppose BDS on tactical grounds- having already written about this in The Nation a long time ago, while others on the panel favor the tactic as the best means to force Israel to do what they think is correct. Any real pro-Israel organization would never have a panel like this in the first place, and would instead have a session devoted to fighting against this movement and instructing defenders of Israel on how best to counter it. Why would any pro-Israel group even debate BDS as a reasonable position for those who want Israel to exist to consider? That a group purporting to defend Israel even has such a panel only reveals its desire to legitimize and bring into their tent hard-line opponents of the Jewish state.
Finally, despite Jeremy Ben-Ami’s claims about how strong they are, how many more members of Congress came and are supporting them, there was little proof of this assertion at the meeting. No notice was given of the prominent former supporters who have left their ranks. That they can mount this year’s meeting in a larger venue, with a fancy program book thrown in, reflects only their ability to raise money from people like George Soros and other mysterious funders. It does not, as far as I can see, reflect any real strength.
I notice in their program that one of the sponsoring groups is called “The National Left,” which notes that it supports “the Israeli left in the race of dwindling elector success of left-wing parties in recent decades.” J Street does not stop to ask itself why this is the case; perhaps, just perhaps, some of its members will come to understand the reality exists because most Israelis have learned through hard times that the program and assumptions of the Israeli left have led nowhere, and they have had enough.
I suspect that in the United States, Jews who defend Israel will come to feel the same about J Street as the Israeli citizens have come to feel about their own left-wing.
(Click here for my look at the Day One of J Street’s conference and here for Day Two.)






Great job, Ron, in enemy/useful idiot territory. You are hereby allowed to apply for “combat pay.”
The reason there is so little “diversity of opinion” at a “J”ihad Street event is because since its Fall 2009 conference this organizations has shown its “true colors. It is a Jewish led jihadi organization. NO self respecting Jew, no self respecting member of the US Congress, will ever go near this group again. If “J”ihad Street was able to count members of Congress, the way AIPAC does at its “Roll Call” during its big annual DC confab, it would do so. It cannot because most members of Congress would NEVER show up.
As you write, this organization has plenty of money. It will be able to pay students to shoow up. Other than the roster of hate-Israel groups listed in “participating organizations”, and the hate-Israel organizations from which its “confirmed speakers” hail (all listed on its web site), no sentient person with show up at this group’s meetings, or that or any of its “participating organizations such as the nefarious New Israel Fund or Americans for Peace Now.
This is a confab for delusive Western apologists, witless sycophants of political Islam, the willfully blind, appeasers and collaborators.
After all, who wants to show up anywhere where a speaker says with a straight fact that Israel can live with a nuclear iran since Iran is not planning to annihilate Israel!
Let’s face it, “J”ihad St. would NEVER permit Palestinian Media Watch, the organization that keeps tabs of what PA/PLO/Fatah/Abbas say to their own people vs what they tell the US/West. Team PA/Abbas curriculum and political/media rhetoric of nothing but incitment to hate and violence: rabid anti-Semtiicm and justification for murdering Jews, terror worship and honoring terrorists, delegtimization of the existence of Israel by saying Jews have NO historical connection to any part of the land, even Tel Aviv!.
Nope. “The Palestinisns – in their own words”, is something neither “J”ihad St. nor ANY participating organizations would EVER permit. That is why only anti-Semites, rabid left wing anti-Zionists, and the occassional delusional type a la Ross are the only ones that will show up at a “J”ihad St. event.
Not to be lost in the discussion re Jihad Street is what Ross LEFT out regarding the overall ‘transformation’ in the Middle East.To be sure, masses are rising up against their leaders.HOWEVER, nothing was said about these masses and what their ultimate aspirations are, other than painting them as aspiring ‘democrats’, ala the Google dupe, implanted by Obama surrogates(Google is VERY close to the Obama regime).They are NOT western democrats.
Moreover, there was NOTHING spontaneous about these uprisings, despite the blathering media and the rhetoric spoken by Ross, a veteran retread of all things Middle East.These demos were planned over 2 yrs ago, in fact, American union heads have been heard crowing about this very fact-Andy Stern’s weekly visits to the White House were NOT for coffee and cake.The fact of the matter is that Obama’s community organizing boots have been firmly implanted in Egypt and elsewhere, all in order to create a cascade of international worker union members.By stirring them up they have PURPOSEFULLY unleashed a tsunami,a chaos which is very important for the ultimate upending of capitalism.
While the leftist and Obama fawning media obsesses over the youth and their messages, they FAIL to articulate what message is most important to said youth-economic gains via SHARIA.They are very clear about their desire to wipe away any vestiges of secular dictators, intent on implementing true Islam via Sharia and all its ‘benefits’.
This IS precisely why the Iranian Hitler and his surrogates are completely backing the protesters, even while suppressing their own.Paradoxically, many youth in Iran want to remove the boot of Shariah and their repressive regime, the polar opposite of what many of the other protesters are vying for.Irony does not even begin to describe this, but Orwellian surely does.
Machiavellian designs are afoot(what else is new…) and the Middle East will be more explosive than ever for decades to come.This is also a fact.
“The fact of the matter is that Obama’s community organizing boots have been firmly implanted in Egypt and elsewhere, all in order to create a cascade of international worker union members.By stirring them up they have PURPOSEFULLY unleashed a tsunami,a chaos which is very important for the ultimate upending of capitalism.”
There’s crazy … and then there’s wingnut crazy.
Van Jones and Andy Stern would beg to differ, they indicated on tape the scenario I depicted.I heard it myself via YES satellite tv!!
Don’t believe me, it matters not a damn to me.What matters is that the slumbering masses understand what they are up against.
Left wing nuts never believe that their ‘dear leaders’ have evil inclinations.Well, they do!!
“The U.S., he said, “has an unshakable commitment to Israel’s security.” This blanket statement received only a smattering of applause, as most of J Street sat silent.”
Tells you everything you need to know about the antisemitic scum who comprise “J Street”. Oh, some of them are Jewish you say? So what?
Tells you everything you need to know about why the overwhelming majority of American Jews are turned off by wingnut spewings and will continue to vote Democratic.
Joseph, you are a TROLL…..
Check web site Palestinian Media Watch. http://www.palwatch.org This is the organization that keeps tabs on what PA/PLO/Fatah/Abbas tell their own people vs what they tell the US/West. The curriculum and political/media rhetoric of hate of rabid anti-Semitism, justification for Jew murder, incitement to terror and worship of terrorists, and turning history upside down by denying any and all Jewish connection to ANY of the land, even Tel Aviv!
This is what “moderate” Palestinian leadership says to its own – in its own words. Only Hamas, Hezbolleh, Muslim Brotherhood, al Qaeda, Council on American islamic Ralations (CAIR) would approve of this kind of stuff. The talk about Team PA/Abbas having “reformed” is strictly mythology. This is incitement to terror through and through.
Make EVERYONE you know, especially those too busy to “get involved” become intimately familiar with this material. Invite PMW to make a presentation to the largest possible audience in your community. Congress has heard the presentation so it is certianly worthy of a presentation at your communal or religious organization. Don’t bother with a room full of “activists”. Get the word OUT. The only thing Team PA/Abbas is great at is “taqquia”, islamic approved deception. They have done a great job at deceiving the US/West about have “reformed”, wanting peace, etc.
Anyone who wants a safe, secure and PERMANENT peace will get busy exposing Team PA/Abbas for the stealth jihadis that they really are because it will will change EVERYTHIING. Once people know that ideologically the faux “moderates” are no different than Hamas/Hezbolleh/Muslim Brotherhood, only the tactics are different, the world will stop pressuring Israel and start pressuring Team PA/Abbas to CHANGE COMPLETELY.
Our goal: NO peace “talks” until Team PA/Abbas toss out its inciteful curriculum and politcal/media. Taling to PA/PLO/Fatah/Abbas is talking to those that are ideologically identical to people we brand terrorists – an act of appeasement that will take us exactly where appeasement has let before – WAR.
maybe they were not clapping because they believe that real security for a jewish state necessarily involves that state doing as much as it can, as opposed to as little as it can, to avoid ruling over large numbers of non-Jews. and that supporting real security for israel necessarily involves exposing those who support Jewish rule over large numbers of non-Jews as the true enemies of jewish nationalism (zionism).
The other deep, dark, dirty little secret is that the Palestinians do not want a state.
Not if it has to exist alongside Israel.
Their continuous clamoring that they do want a state has got one of the most effective long-term propaganda ploys ever devised.
Should be: “…has got to be one of the…”
Ron, do you support the settlement of the West Bank by Israel?
I don’t mean the occupation of the West Bank until such time as a firm peace is made. I mean the settlements.
Gary Rosen will never answer a substantive question like that.
Gary Rosen: Yes, indeed, Ross’s statement of America’s support for Israel draws, at a putatively pro-Israel meeting, tepid applause. Meanwhile, some months ago I saw Sarah Palin on CSPAN speak at some conservative conference. She lauded Israel as a friend and ally of the US, an embattled democracy, a nation that shares our values, etc….and the crowd rose to its feet, cheering.
J Street for some Jews is what the Ethical Culture movement was decades ago religiously, a way out without admitting that you’re on the way out. As Ron says, the Israel J Street says it supports is an imaginary one. I looked on J Street’s website recently to see if I could find any statement condemning Palestinian action outright and without the usual “both sides…” trope. I also looked for a statement that could be construed as unabashedly pro-Israel without the “both sides” bit or qualification upon qualification.
I can’t say there aren’t any; I can say I couldn’t find any.
It is an ancient propaganda ploy to covertly create (or nurture) a group more extreme than oneself that then attacks one for being not radical enough. This way one can sell oneself as the reasonable moderate.
I have a feeling J Street is that type of group.
The reason there is so little “diversity of opinion” at a “J”ihad Street event is because since its Fall 2009 conference this organizations has shown its “true colors. It is a Jewish led jihadi organization. NO self respecting Jew, no self respecting member of the US Congress, will ever go near this group again. If “J”ihad Street was able to count members of Congress, the way AIPAC does at its “Roll Call” during its big annual DC confab, it would do so. It cannot because most members of Congress would NEVER show up.
As you write, this organization has plenty of money. It will be able to pay students to show up. Other than the roster of hate-Israel groups listed in “participating organizations”, and the hate-Israel organizations from which its “confirmed speakers” hail (all listed on its web site), no sentient person will show up at this group’s meetings, or that or any of its “participating organizations such as the nefarious New Israel Fund or Americans for Peace Now.
This is a confab for delusive Western apologists, witless sycophants of political Islam, the willfully blind, appeasers and collaborators.
After all, who wants to show up anywhere where a speaker says with a straight fact that Israel can live with a nuclear Iran since Iran is not planning to annihilate Israel!
Let’s face it, “J”ihad St. would NEVER permit Palestinian Media Watch, the organization that keeps tabs of what PA/PLO/Fatah/Abbas say to their own people vs what they tell the US/West. Team PA/Abbas curriculum and political/media rhetoric of nothing but incitment to hate and violence: rabid anti-Semticm and justification for murdering Jews, terror worship and honoring terrorists, delegtimization of the existence of Israel by saying Jews have NO historical connection to any part of the land, even Tel Aviv!.
Nope. “The Palestinisns – in their own words”, is something neither “J”ihad St. nor ANY participating organizations would EVER permit.
That is why only anti-Semites, rabid left wing anti-Zionists, and the occassional delusional type a la Ross (who thinks Palestinian leadership has “reformed”) are the only ones that will show up at a “J”ihad St. event.
RR 2/24: “…J Street was unable to get senior Israeli politicians to attend….”
RR 2/28: “J Street, despite its proclamations, does not allow much diversity in its conference presentations.”
Not too good at connecting the dots, are you, Ron?
Ross repeats the crucial fallacy behind the peace process. Ron, in your report today and yesterday you mentioned the speakers, including Dennis Ross saying that the clock was ticking because of the demographic reality that Palestinians would outnumber Jews. A similar message came from the foreign minister of Luxemborg yesterday as well in an interview with the JPost.
Apparently the powers that be, like Mr. Ross, are a decade behind in their information. Census figures for the past 5 years in Israel show that Jewish birthrates have climbed and Arab birthrates have fallen. The demographic argument for making a peace deal as soon as possible has been refuted. Hopefully someone in Israel’s leadership is clued in to the emerging reality that Jewish natural increase will soon be outpacing Palestinian natural increase.
“The demographic argument for making a peace deal as soon as possible has been refuted.”
You are correct that the demographic argument has been undermined in recent years, and not just due to convergence of Arab and Jewish birthrates. We also now understand that the original thesis was based on questionable data coming out of the PA. But if the focus is on the demographic balance between the Med and the Jordan, it gets more complicated. Creation of a Palestinian state will increase pressure within Jordan, Syria and (especially) Lebanon to drive descendants of the original Arab “refugees” back to the new Palestine. And *that* will create a serious mess that virtually no one has considered.
so steve, given the more favorable demographics, do you support annexing the west bank and making its inhabitants israeli citizens, with full political rights? if no, why not?
In the past year, “J”ihad St. has SELF delegitimized. How to put it completely out of business? Check web site Palestinian Media Watch. http://www.palwatch.org This is the organization that keeps tabs on what PA/PLO/Fatah/Abbas tell their own people vs what they tell the US/West. The curriculum and political/media rehtoric of hate of rabid anti-Semitism, justification for Jew murder, incitement to terror and worship of terrorists, and turning history upside down by denying any and all Jewish connection to ANY of the land, even Tel Aviv.
Let’s stop working so hard at “defending Israel”. Let’s show the world what the pretend “moderate” Palestinian leadership says to its own – in its own words.
Make EVERYONE you know, especially those too busy to “get involved” become intimately familiar with this material. Invite PMW to make a presentation to the largest possible audience in your community. Congress has heard the presentation so it is certianly worthy of a presentation at your communal or religious organization. Don’t bother with a room full of “activists”. Get the word OUT.
Exposing Team PA/Abbas for the stealth jihadis that they really are will change EVERYTHIING. Once people know that ideologically the faux “moderates” are no different than Hamas/Hezbolleh/Muslim Brotherhood, only the tactics are different, the world will stop pressuring Israel and start pressuring Team PA/Abbas to CHANGE COMPLETELY.
Our goal: NO peace “talks” until Team PA/Abbas toss out its inciteful curriculum and politcal/media rhetoric and adopt one of ecumenism such as: “all men and women are created euqal irrespective of religion”!
Was anyone really surprised that if Ross was representing the administration his speech would be rather tepid? I still do not think that Ross should be attacked the way he usually is in the Pajama Media Blog. I think he is a pretty decent friend of Israel and knows the score but he is a diplomat after all.
Dennis Ross either doesn’t “know the score” or he is intentionally disregarding all evidence mitigating against any possibility of Palestinian acceptance of the need to co-exist with a Jewish State.
Under the rubric of “think positive”!! Since it’s better than thinking negative (or confronting inconvenient facts).
Besides, I’m sure that Ross is absolutely certain that peace is good for Israel!!
(Which is precisely the reason why Israel’s “Partners-in-Peace” will never agree to it…. But hold on; what is their definition of “peace,” again?)
In short, his entire perspective is built on faulty assumptions.
At this point in time, it should be clear. It isn’t of course. In fact, the opposite.
Mr. Radosh and Mr. Simon, I would very much like to hear what you think the end game in the West Bank should be.
Taking it on faith that a Palestinian state would be another Gaza seems to doom Israel and the Palestinian Arabs to eternal war.
eternal war is exactly what they want.
As opposed to markus who wants a quick war that kills all da Joooos.
The conflict is unsolvable. The best that can be hoped for is to manage it. The productive, educated Palestinians left for the West or Gulf Arab states. What remains is mostly an unproductive, resentful and violence-prone population. What little is produced there is primarily through partnerships with Israeli firms. If international aid dried up, Gaza and the West Bank would soon resemble Yemen. That is the reality whether Dennis Ross and the others spinmasters are willing to admit it.
Um it’s a “plaintive” cry, not a “plaintiff.”
Just sayin’.
PS to Adina K, I’ve just gotten a copy of Olso Syndrome per your suggestion.
Thanks, Freedomlover, for your elegant and incisive statements.
Re demographic arguments: I would suggest that the Readership google Yoram Ettinger to obtain his viewpoints on the current demographic perspectives and the fallacies inherent in the most popular ones re the socalled growth of Palestinian Arabs.