Then Kristof goes on to point out that in the 19th century, “fears were stoked by books written by people who supposedly had ‘escaped’ Catholicism,” in which they recounted obviously fraudulent and fanciful stories of kidnapped girls, the raping of nuns by priests, and the like. Again, the problem is that the accounts by people who have left the faith of Islam, like Hirsi Ali, are not fanciful: they are true. Perhaps Mr. Kristof should read the memoir of PJM’s Phyllis Chessler, who writes in her book The Death of Feminism about her own shattering experiences after marrying a Muslim man.
Then again, Kristof accounts all the ways in which past bigotry inflamed violent outbursts against Germans, Jews, Chinese, etc. Old immigrants newly assimilated, he says, target the newest immigrants. Hence what he calls “the fear-mongering about the proposed Islamic center.”
So there it is: opponents of the mosque are fear-mongers. They are, in other words, bigots — precisely what he says at the article’s beginning he is not arguing. He does not present any of the valid concerns I and others have pointed to earlier — the contradictory anti-American and Islamist statements of Imam Rauf, the nature of the mosque’s funding, the refusal of the imam to condemn terrorist groups like Hamas, etc. To Kristof, it is easier to ignore these. If he had not, he would not have been able to make the argument of bigotry.
He concludes by saying that Americans “have called on moderates in Muslim countries to speak out against extremists,” but he neglects to say few have done so and one has to look for a needle in a haystack to find them. So he turns this around and says that Americans must “have the guts to do the same at home.”
To Mr. Kristof I simply say: We are tolerant; we are for freedom of religion; we only do not want to be ostriches with our heads in the sand, denying the reality of radical Islam and exaggerating the extent and power of a practically non-existent moderate Islam.
I do not expect Nicholas Kristof to get it. After all, he writes for the New York Times.
Two Labor Day recommendations:
At the New Republic, the historian Michael Kazin takes his journal to task for ignoring the situation of today’s workers and the union movement. As in the past, he sees them as the forefront of the movement for social change. The problem Kazin ignores is a simple one: the old organized blue-collar working class no longer makes up the trade union movement. Today it is white-collar and particularly public workers who compose its majority; their impact is to bankrupt state economies with the kind of contracts that most workers do not have. They blackmail politicians to continually fund their outrageous demands, and the Democratic Party is beholden to them. No wonder all the examples he looks back on with pride are from the 1930s.
On the same website, E.J.Dionne, who misses big labor, tells the truth Kazin ignores: “Only 12.3 percent of American wage and salary workers belong to unions, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, down from a peak of about one-third of the work force in 1955. A movement historically associated with the brawny workers in auto, steel, rubber, construction, rail, and the ports now represents more employees in the public sector (7.9 million) than in the private sector (7.4 million).”
Nothing like telling the truth. But Dionne remembers that labor used to have “a disdain for elitism.” He thinks this should lead to a rebirth of the movement. But doesn’t he realize that these same working-class voters who disdain elitism are the Reagan Democrats of the past and the tea partiers of today? What they reject is the elitism of pundits like Dionne and Kazin, who pine for the old socialist movement and never understand why it will not be reborn.
And finally, the libertarian writer Todd Seavey has a great book recommendation on his blog today — the major book by my friend about whom I have written in the past, Martin J. Sklar. You can read Seavey’s blog here.
Addendum: 8:50 pm, EST.
Well, I think Nicholas Kristof doesn’t appreciate my blog. Here is the link to his recent Tweet. I guess the limitation on twitter gives him the excuse not to reply to its contents. Well, at least he clearly doesn’t like my title!
I cannot comprehend the enduring hatred for America from those on the Left. They dismiss what we all saw 9/11, and as those memories recede, they now are found amplifying their ominous warnings that the real danger stems, not from the primitive barbarians of Islam who slaughter every day, but from the seething Nazis citizens of the USA. Clearly their hatred is abiding. In that they are little different than the Muslim abominations which call for our destruction. In that, Leftist Americans are philosophically much closer to al Qaeda, Saudi Wahhabists, and the Taliban than they are to their fellow countrymen.
“I cannot comprehend the enduring hatred for America from those on the Left.”
The left is allied with Islam and the ruling class in Europe to destroy the middle class in the US. We are their mutual mortal enemy. We are the barrier that prevents the American left from siezing complete power (which is why they hate us). Because the elitists inability (so far) to submit (despite the deliberate destruction of the world econmy), the European elites are unable to use American wealth and power to rescue Europe from its inevitable decline. And Islam joins the coalition because they know that America under the ruling elites will not oppose them for long.
Examine every action and you will see a highly consistent pattern. Everything the Obamaites do is either a direct attack on the power of the American middle class, or forwards the interests of their allies.
We have seen the enemy and they have the high ground in our own country.
Morton, just about all people seek reasons to feel superior to others. Leftists do this through moral preening. It makes no logical sense to argue that because the USA was intolerant of Catholics 150 years ago, it is immorally intolerant to object to a mosque today at the site of the mass murder of thousands of Americans by Muslims. Yet, leftists don’t need logic, they need a reason to feel superior, and any nonsensical argument will serve that purpose.
This is a great takedown of Kristoff, Ron — and of all of the useful idiots.
Freedom of religion idiots! If you believe ALL Muslim hate the US then I believe ALL priests molest kids.
wow! What an intellectual response ! But is Islam a religion or a cult ? I’d go with the latter.
Show us your Koran, darlin’.
It has long been rumored that anyone employed by the New york Times must go out of their way to please Pinch Sulzberger. We can pretty well take it for granted that Nicholas Kristof is no exception. These people simply must be marginalized. They are intellectually incompetent. I almost feel tempted to pity Kristoff—until I realize that he is almost certainly “earning” a six figure annual income.
I believe it’s “Punch.” He just lost his wife and word is he suffers from dementia. Not sure how much influence he wields at the NYT.
I agree that radical Islam is a major—and potentially underestimated problem—but what’s also fascinating is that Saudi Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal appears to be a big-time shareholder of Fox News, so without further qualification, the generic phrase “funded by the Saudis” doesn’t really mean much one way or another.
Peter, that is an intellectually lazy argument. The Prince may be a shareholder, but it does not lead to “funded by the Saudis.” Unless he bought shares at the IPO, his money did not go to Fox News Corp.
Not may be. Is. By all accounts, the Saudi prince owns 7% of News Corp.
Well, I’m not American Citizen, but reading Nicholas Kristof coloumn and blog, I must say that he is right, fear and lack of knowledge of others religion tend to intolerance.
Saudi maybe founded the mosque in America but not all Muslim America wants to do the jihad, same as Indonesia, there are Islam fanatical which brings the violence but there are also non fanatical Islam. How all of you can be judgemental by saying that they want to change America to implement Sharia law ? Even in Indonesia we don’t want Sharia to be Indonesian law.
Being a catholic in Muslim majority country is not easy even though I must say now that at some point I’m lucky compare to Islam people who lives in your country.
Don’t be too judgemental, yes, I cursed 9/11, so do muslim people all over the world (except Taliban and the fanatical). But please do understand their religion too and respect their Quran (I read that some church in Florida plan to burn the Quran).
Well, this is my 2cents.
“We are tolerant; we are for freedom of religion; we only do not want to be ostriches with our heads in the sand, denying the reality of radical Islam and exaggerating the extent and power of a practically non-existent moderate Islam.”
Ron Radosh, with the aforementioned you managed to express my sentiments exactly. No matter how often I have spoken or written on the subject, I did not even come close to expressing these sentiments as clearly and effectively as you have in those few words.
In your next article would you please address the solution? what practical measures or solutions must we implement to combat the growing threat of Islamism both domestically and abroad.
It’s a heart breaking article.How can you judge the religion by mentioning few negative examples.If you say America is dangerous place for women, because every few minutes a woman raped here.Now will you say that America is bad.No,not at all, you can’t judge like that.What this country face was due to wrong policies.You still don’t want to understand.Why don’t you thing these attacks started in last 20 years.I ask people how many attacks happen before that.I am not justifying attacks.My sole purpose is to realize that please don’t make non issue a issue.President Obama is doing right thing.But some people don’t want to see this country stay at top.When you take on a community of 1.5 billion result you figure out.
Many of my countrymen don’t judge “the religion” based on a few negative examples. Those people are crazy. The rest of us suspect that the views of those who flew those planes represent the hopes and dreams much more than a small minority of Islam. We believe this because there is so little evidence to the contrary. As for the fact that there are 1.5 billion,well we are the only Nation on earth that has nuked another country….. twice.
I find it sadly hilarious that most people on this forum refuse to see the moderate Islam that is nearly everywhere (but ignored by the media). Would seeing these “normal” people and the incredible outpouring of opposition to terrorism just shatter their sense of security in their fear? Do they just need to have someone to fear and demonize? Sure, fear and demonize terrorists. But everybody? AND, they think, not being a Muslim, they get to interpret the Quran. Tell that to my Muslim friends who care about equality, democracy, and handle the violent passages in the Quran in very similar ways that moderate Christians deal with violent passages in the Bible…with pain and humility…and a resolve to be good citizens and work toward common good. But I guess that’s just an evil, unreal, and ungodly thing to do.
There is no such thing as moderate Islam. There are temperate Muslims, relatively at least, but these are as much of the problem as their jihadist brethren, if not more of it. The great need of our age is to turn the two camps against one another: visibly, passionately, and permanently.
Actually rape is a punishable offense in our country. Can you say the same for the Muslim world? In that world where all too often women who are raped can’t testify against their accusers and worse the rape victims themselves are punished for adultery.
Look at not just one but any and all Muslim countries and see how horribly minorities are treated.
IF THE US CONSTITUTION STOOD FOR THE SAME HATEFUL THINGS AS THE KORAN I WOULD’T WANT TO BE AN AMERICAN.
Western Civilization — principally America — gave the world essentially all of its science and technology. America itself produces 25% of the world’s economic output. Our poor are middle-class by the standards of the rest of the world. Your “community of 1.5 billion people” is entirely dirt-poor, except for its rulers. Over the last millennium, it has one innovation to its name: the suicide-bomber vest.
I think we can take you.
Sad how appeasement of radical Muslim governments and paleo-Islamists continues in the face of the persecution of Muslims in these countries. It is easy for Imam Rauf to come and build a mosque in New York and get money from Saudi Sheikhs, but impossible to get the same Sheikhs to allow former Muslims or even moderate Muslims to live peacefully in their countries.
‘We had the Know Nothing movement that opposed the “Catholic menace”‘
Slight difference.
Thousands and thousands of Americans hadn’t been killed by Catholic terrorists.
The public employee union AF-SCAM or whatever has pledged 100 million for the midterms they represent bureaucrats. The AFL-CIO who represent manufacturing and construction workers pledged 40 million. What does that tell us about our economy?
If La-Raza wanted to build a temple pyramid in New Mexico and start sacrificing humans in the name of their ancient religion, would apposing that be bigotry?
I do not think that it is the lack of knowledge about the Quran that is happening.
It is the other way around. It is learning about the Quran that has the people upset. We do not call muslims in Indonesia apes and pigs to be killed.
Yet muslims do this all the time?
The problem is not that we don’t know. The problem is that we do.
here are your moderate Indonesians – http://www.persecution.com/public/restrictednations.aspx?clickfrom=bWFpbl9tZW51 – then click on Indonesia
You would never know it if you only ever watched Fox news, but actually the leadership of Muslims in north America have already issued a fatwah – religious edict – against the use of violence to achieve political ends. It’s not that hard to find the moderates in Islam. They are everywhere. If you believe otherwise, you don’t know many American Muslims.
Some Muslims are temperate — not “moderate” — but Islam itself, as defined by the Koran, the Sunnah, and the ahadith, is hateful and aggressive. Study the history of its geographic expansion and try to justify any other position
Im voting Paul Krugman.
Let me get this straight, the Irish and Germans were discriminated against? Aren’t they white? How the heck did that happen? I was taught by all of my public school teachers that only black folks were ever discriminated against in the U.S.(and orientals but that was really no big deal). Are you sure this Kristoff guy is telling the truth?
‘First, Kristof explains that bigotry is not “the only reason why someone might oppose the Islamic center in Lower Manhattan.” Then he proceeds as expected to show his readers why obviously that is precisely the reason why they oppose the mosque!’
Kristof points out that much opposition to the mosque is motivated not by hate, but fear – fear that can become hate under a steady drumbeat of demagoguery.
All in all, a sad blog by RR. But then again, he wasn’t getting anywhere with his “Islam is not the enemy” tack; PJM was burying his stuff. Now – front page!
Hello, Joe, what do you know, just got back from Kokomo?
Joe say: “…fear – fear that can become hate under a steady drumbeat of demagoguery.”
For once I agree with you, Joe. The fear and hate enducing demagoguery from the Whits House is gruesome indeed. Fear of the “clingers”, id est, the American people, who are not in the delusional thrall of mystical progressivism. The president’s contant insults to his subjects are unbearable. It is hard to believe that the head of our Administration and about half of the ruling class are people like you who hate the other half of the population. We must keep people like that out of power, Joe. It looks like that may finally, but of course temporarily, happen, doesn’t it.
‘Joe say: “…fear – fear that can become hate under a steady drumbeat of demagoguery.””
No, Freddy, Joe no say; Kristof say. But, yes, the “contant insults” from the “Whits House” are indeed unbearable. And, btw, have a happy Burn-A-Koran Day!
“”No, Freddy, Joe no say; Kristof say.”
No, Joey, I no say, Christian Minister say: “…Burn-A-Koran…”
But you are a Kristofian in this matter, are you not. See, like this: “Kristof points out that much opposition to the mosque is motivated not by hate, but fear – fear that can become hate under a steady drumbeat of demagoguery.” So, Joey agree with Kristof. No?
“we are for freedom of religion”
Fine by me, as long as your religion doesn’t include executing people for: blasphemy, apostatsy, “crimes against chastity” or spitting into the wind.
If it does…then I’m against freedom of religion.
‘In the 19th century, fears were stoked by books written by people who supposedly had “escaped” Catholicism. These books luridly recounted orgies between priests and nuns, girls kidnapped and held in secret dungeons, and networks of tunnels at convents to allow priests to rape nuns. One woman claiming to have been a priest’s sex slave wrote a “memoir” asserting that Catholics killed boys and ground them into sausage for sale.’–Kristof
I’m sure that’s all very interesting. but what’s that have to do with LEGITIMATE complaints against Muslims NOW?
Is he saying that things like 9/11 (and other terror attacks), honor killings, executions by Muslim governments for blasphemy, FGM, etc. are all fabrications?
I think they are not.
And, I think Kristof is being intellectually dishonest…and everyone pretty much knows he is.
Once you understand that to this crazed type of scum we, the Normal, are the enemy, the rest falls into place. By now it should be obvious.
Even for those muslims who don’t wage war, cutting off a daughters body parts may be required. With this the left can live. I’m almost sorry I only used the word “crazed”.
Ronnie: Although the know nothings were not exactly sympathetic to
Jews, Catholics did–after all–kill thousands, with the auto
da fe, the thirty years war, and various attacks on Jews, especially
after the Black Death.
One book does not a universal case make. However elegant Ms.
Chessler’s book, it can’t indict all muslism for misogyny (althou
gh I concede the problem.
Rauf’s seemingly inexplicable statements of fraternity to Jews
and Israel, and Hamas as well, can only be explained by his
desire to like everyone.
In your listing of categories Muslims, you left our an
important group: the Sufi’s who are still followers of that
Delightful poet, Rumi among others. I know from your friend
( whose name has excaped me–he used to write for the Jewish
Daily Forward), that such tolerant types can be found in the
Balkins.
I thought Rich secured the trophy when regarding some Obam proposl he referred to John McCain–decorted war hero–as “unptriotic.” Besides, you can win bar bets by wwagering that no matter what Rich writes about, however removed from politics, he will haul in George Bush. It’s like Mr. Dick, Aunt Betsey’s friend in “David Copperfield:” no matter what he tried to write about it always came back to King Charles’ head.
The NY Timesgives nearly a full page on Sunday, perhaps the most valuable op-ed space in the English-speaking world, to Rich and Maureen Dowd, and after years of tht I finally decided I could stop in at the librry during the week and xerox the acrostic and crossword puzzles.
My thoughts on Labor Day:
Isn’t it interesting that NOT ONE of the Sunday morning network programs had a labor “leader” as a guest.
Sunday morning programs on Labor Day Weekend ALWAYS featured a union leader whether it be George Meany or Walter Ruther of A. Phillip Randolph.
The union thugs of today aren’t fit to shine these statesmen’s shoes!
Tom h/Il .. I’m Indonesian and must say that the news of how Muslim fanatical react in Indonesia. But I must say also that there are more Islam people in Indonesia who hate and condempt that FPI (Islam Front Defender) action. Do you know that our government plan to banned FPI(majority Islam)?
I can’t imagine, America, where we seen as democratic country, where they value human right, do the same way like our Islam fanatical people did in Indonesia.
Tere616 – There is no banning of Islam in the US. We just don’t want
them to build their victory mosque at the site of the 9/11 attacks.
There are 1000′s of Islamic mosques here and no one has prevented
them from practicing their religion.
What the history of intolerance in the this country, the “no nothings” the internment of the Japanese-American citizens etc teaches us is that people are easily capable of going off the deep end in their fears and prejudices. It is what volatile human beings can do.
Oh, but you don’t understand; THIS TIME, all the fears and prejudice are justified. Hmmm.
Evidently, the true patriots now are the ones who realize how Latinos and Muslims are taking over the country and are prepared to do something about it. Hmmm.
As in any disagreement, the two sides use the most extreme examples of the other sides “racism” or “ostrichism” to make their case. Was Kristoff calling for moderation? Is Radosh? GWB, to give him credit, DID.
Speaking of extremes, what is the Tea Party position on Koran burning? How about internment camps for all Muslims until we can determine their loyalty? Can we assume that all reasonable Americans on the right or the left are against such things?
Here’s an idea to try on. Let’s let the Muslims build their mosque and then tax it as part of a larger move to tax all church holdings. We will also tax private schools and colleges as well. Churches and schools will pay a lower rate, but they will pay something; God’s tribute to Caesar.
“Let’s let the Muslims build their mosque…”
But my dear friend, we have no lawful power to “let” the Muslims build. All we can do is to patiently, or impatiently, explain to them that if they build their trophy tower we will resent them for it and we will develop a more robust distrust of them than we have now. That may lead to more opposition to their plans in the future. Is that what they want? If so, so be it!
Thank God we have writers like Kristoff who have conscience writing for the Times and not writers like Radosh who have none. He is one of the few opinion writers who bring morality into their observations.
Is that what Kristof does, Shadow, bring the light of morality into the darkness of…the shadows? Well, at least it is comforting to actually hear from somebody who still reads the Times.
Now Shadow, I am hoping Kristof will bring the light of his morality into this situation by writing a column about it.
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/letters-show-rep-eddie-bernice-johnson-d-tx-steered-cbc-scholarship-money-directly-to-her-grandsons/2/
Lets eee we have millions out of work, starvation in parts of Africa, two wars, I could couldon and the list of major problems would be stunning before I reached the point of advacating that Kristof write about one unethical dope. But I guess you wingnuts are more concerned about one person than the millions who suffer each day. But then again I am never surprized at the nuttyness of wingnuts
“But I guess you wingnuts are more concerned about one person than the millions who suffer each day.”
It would be very interesting if you could demonstrate that you did some things in the last year that aid those millions who you say suffer each day. For example, did you pay extra taxes to help our foreign aid? Or are you one of about half of the population who are not required to pay any taxes. How about it sainted one, what good works can you show?
See below – Now who is a better writer and who has a better moral compass:
“This weekend, a Jewish woman who lost her husband in the 9/11 attacks is planning to speak at a mosque in Boston. She will be trying to recruit members of the mosque to join her battle against poverty and illiteracy in Afghanistan.
Nicholas D. Kristof
The woman, Susan Retik, has pursued perhaps the most unexpected and inspiring American response to the 9/11 attacks. This anniversary of Sept. 11 feels a little ugly to me, with some planning to remember the day with hatred and a Koran-burning — and that makes her work all the more exhilarating.
In the shattering aftermath of Sept. 11, 2001, Ms. Retik bonded with another woman, Patti Quigley, whose husband had also died in the attack. They lived near each other, and both were pregnant with babies who would never see their fathers.
Devastated themselves, they realized that there were more than half a million widows in Afghanistan — and then, with war, there would be even more. Ms. Retik and Ms. Quigley also saw that Afghan widows could be a stabilizing force in that country.
So at a time when the American government reacted to the horror of 9/11 mostly with missiles and bombs, detentions and waterboardings, Ms. Retik and Ms. Quigley turned to education and poverty-alleviation projects — in the very country that had incubated a plot that had pulverized their lives.
The organization they started, Beyond the 11th, has now assisted more than 1,000 Afghan widows in starting tiny businesses. It’s an effort both to help some of the world’s neediest people and to fight back at the distrust, hatred and unemployment that sustain the Taliban.
“More jobs mean less violence,” Ms. Retik noted. “It would be naïve to think that we can change the country, but change has to start somewhere. If we can provide a skill for a woman so that she can provide for her family going forward, then that’s one person or five people who will have a roof over their head, food in their bellies and a chance for education.”
In times of fear and darkness, we tend to suppress the better angels of our nature. Instead, these women unleashed theirs.
Paul Barker, who for many years ran CARE’s operations in Afghanistan, believes America would have accomplished more there if our government had shared the two women’s passion for education and development. “I can only wonder at what a different world it could be today if in those fateful months after 9/11 our nation’s leadership had been guided more by a people-to-people vision of building both metaphorical and physical bridges,” Mr. Barker said.
A terrific documentary, “Beyond Belief,” follows Ms. Retik and Ms. Quigley as they raise funds for Afghan widows and finally travel to Afghanistan to visit the women they had been helping. Ms. Quigley has since stepped down from Beyond the 11th because she felt in danger of becoming a perpetual 9/11 poster widow, but she still is working on a series of Afghan initiatives. Ms. Retik, who has since remarried, remains focused on the charity.
Beyond the 11th began by buying small chicken flocks for widows so that they could sell eggs. Another major project was to build a women’s center in the city of Bamian, where the women weave carpets for export. The center, overseen by an aid group called Arzu, also offers literacy classes and operates a bakery as a business.
Another initiative has been to train Afghan women, through a group called Business Council for Peace, to run a soccer ball manufacturing company. The bosses have been coached in quality control, inventory management and other skills, and they have recruited unemployed widows to stitch the balls — which are beginning to be exported under the brand Dosti.
Ms. Retik’s next step will be to sponsor a microfinance program through CARE. There are also plans to train attendants to help reduce deaths in childbirth.
Will all of this turn Afghanistan into a peaceful country? Of course not. Education and employment are not panaceas. But the record suggests that schools and economic initiatives do tend over time to chip away at fundamentalism — and they’re also cheap.
All the work that Beyond the 11th has done in Afghanistan over nine years has cost less than keeping a single American soldier in Afghanistan for eight months.
I admire Ms. Retik’s work partly because she offers an antidote to the pusillanimous anti-Islamic hysteria that clouds this anniversary of 9/11. Ms. Retik offers an alternative vision by reaching out to a mosque and working with Muslims so that in the future there will be fewer widows either here or there.
Her work is an invigorating struggle to unite all faiths against those common enemies of humanity, ignorance and poverty — reflecting the moral and mental toughness that truly can chip away at terrorism.
No no no, St. Shadow. I’m asking what YOU have done to help even one of the suffering millions you seem to be so concerned about. Don’t point me at Susan Retik. You personally and Alinsky-like attacked me as being unconcerned about the suffering of millions. I may be willing to respect your humanitarian feelings. But you need to show me something you have done to help them. Whining about a problem has nothing to do with solving it. For example, if you are a Texan in this Congresswoman’s district, shouldn’t you vote against her? She seems to be a thief.
Lets see aside from the money I gave weekly to my church and the money I give to other charitable orgaization, I volunteer one morning a week to mentor kids who have dropped out of school. What have you done?
Ochs-noxious “Punch” Sulzberger is still the NYT master puppeteer–and is every bit as patriotic as the man who pretends to be our President.
Shadow, there is a big difference between a claim and a demonstration of a claim. In short I don’t believe you.
Dear Lord, do I miss Abe Rosenthal.