Comments on: The Debate over Soviet Espionage: What Nicholas Lemann of The New Yorker Gets Wrong http://pjmedia.com/ronradosh/2009/08/10/the-debate-over-soviet-espionage-what-nicholas-lemann-of-the-new-yorker-gets-wrong/ Just another Pajamasmedia.com weblog Wed, 15 Feb 2012 18:39:34 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Ron Radosh » A Challenge to the Editors of The New Yorker: A Call to Open Your Pages http://pjmedia.com/ronradosh/2009/08/10/the-debate-over-soviet-espionage-what-nicholas-lemann-of-the-new-yorker-gets-wrong/#comment-27717 Ron Radosh » A Challenge to the Editors of The New Yorker: A Call to Open Your Pages Tue, 08 Jun 2010 15:27:31 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/ronradosh/?p=1080#comment-27717 [...] [...] [...] [...]

]]> By: Thomas http://pjmedia.com/ronradosh/2009/08/10/the-debate-over-soviet-espionage-what-nicholas-lemann-of-the-new-yorker-gets-wrong/#comment-4178 Thomas Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:01:03 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/ronradosh/?p=1080#comment-4178 A quick search with Google on Mr. Lemann background convinced me that his affection for Stalinism, leftism is congenital for people of similar, Buddhist origin. A quick search with Google on Mr. Lemann background convinced me that his affection for Stalinism, leftism is congenital for people of similar, Buddhist origin.

]]> By: Dave http://pjmedia.com/ronradosh/2009/08/10/the-debate-over-soviet-espionage-what-nicholas-lemann-of-the-new-yorker-gets-wrong/#comment-4171 Dave Thu, 13 Aug 2009 01:24:36 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/ronradosh/?p=1080#comment-4171 John Moore #15: Very true. However, McCarthy's alcoholism not only made him a soft target, it also lend credence to the demagoging. Had he been clean and sober, the commies would have had less success. John Moore #15: Very true. However, McCarthy’s alcoholism not only made him a soft target, it also lend credence to the demagoging. Had he been clean and sober, the commies would have had less success.

]]> By: John Moore http://pjmedia.com/ronradosh/2009/08/10/the-debate-over-soviet-espionage-what-nicholas-lemann-of-the-new-yorker-gets-wrong/#comment-4169 John Moore Wed, 12 Aug 2009 23:59:59 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/ronradosh/?p=1080#comment-4169 Slightly off topic, but one has to wonder about the course of history without McCarthy. I strongly suspect the left would have found some other demagogue on the right and used him to discredit all anti-communist activity. In that sense, McCarthy was just the best scapegoat. Slightly off topic, but one has to wonder about the course of history without McCarthy. I strongly suspect the left would have found some other demagogue on the right and used him to discredit all anti-communist activity. In that sense, McCarthy was just the best scapegoat.

]]> By: Bohemond http://pjmedia.com/ronradosh/2009/08/10/the-debate-over-soviet-espionage-what-nicholas-lemann-of-the-new-yorker-gets-wrong/#comment-4168 Bohemond Wed, 12 Aug 2009 23:35:29 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/ronradosh/?p=1080#comment-4168 Indeed. I think, for example, one could rationally believe that members of the LAPD fabricated evidence against O.J. Simpson- who was nonetheless guilty as hell. Mutatis mutandis. McCarthy gave McCartyism a bad name. Indeed.

I think, for example, one could rationally believe that members of the LAPD fabricated evidence against O.J. Simpson- who was nonetheless guilty as hell.

Mutatis mutandis. McCarthy gave McCartyism a bad name.

]]> By: Thomass http://pjmedia.com/ronradosh/2009/08/10/the-debate-over-soviet-espionage-what-nicholas-lemann-of-the-new-yorker-gets-wrong/#comment-4167 Thomass Wed, 12 Aug 2009 19:38:57 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/ronradosh/?p=1080#comment-4167 "McCarthy’s antics, his scattershot attacks on liberals as Communists and some Communists as spies- when no evidence existed for his charges- allowed those truly guilty to win public sympathy by claiming that they too were simple victims of a McCarthyite witch-hunt." That's one take. My more cynical view is McCarthyism as a meme has simply been used to help take ideology off the table. It is used today to browbeat people into not discussing the left's ideological agenda because to do so, even in measured and sober terms, is 'McCarthyistic'... Conservatives can be attacked as free market ideologues in the pay of industry (we are seeing it a lot right now)... but mention that the left might be motivated by anything other than pure reason and honest social science (say by a bias in favor of public ownership or an ideological attraction to forced equality) and your a McCarthyite / nut / something bad. “McCarthy’s antics, his scattershot attacks on liberals as Communists and some Communists as spies- when no evidence existed for his charges- allowed those truly guilty to win public sympathy by claiming that they too were simple victims of a McCarthyite witch-hunt.”

That’s one take. My more cynical view is McCarthyism as a meme has simply been used to help take ideology off the table. It is used today to browbeat people into not discussing the left’s ideological agenda because to do so, even in measured and sober terms, is ‘McCarthyistic’…

Conservatives can be attacked as free market ideologues in the pay of industry (we are seeing it a lot right now)… but mention that the left might be motivated by anything other than pure reason and honest social science (say by a bias in favor of public ownership or an ideological attraction to forced equality) and your a McCarthyite / nut / something bad.

]]> By: Thomas_L...... http://pjmedia.com/ronradosh/2009/08/10/the-debate-over-soviet-espionage-what-nicholas-lemann-of-the-new-yorker-gets-wrong/#comment-4166 Thomas_L...... Wed, 12 Aug 2009 15:33:00 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/ronradosh/?p=1080#comment-4166 Senator Joe McCarthy, and especially his methods, are certainly worthy of criticism. However, you'd think by now that with these revelations and everything we know about the USSR, sensible people would, at least, accept the fact that Communism damaged way more lives than McCarthyism ever dreamed of. Senator Joe McCarthy, and especially his methods, are certainly worthy of criticism. However, you’d think by now that with these revelations and everything we know about the USSR, sensible people would, at least, accept the fact that Communism damaged way more lives than McCarthyism ever dreamed of.

]]> By: Kentek http://pjmedia.com/ronradosh/2009/08/10/the-debate-over-soviet-espionage-what-nicholas-lemann-of-the-new-yorker-gets-wrong/#comment-4165 Kentek Wed, 12 Aug 2009 15:04:24 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/ronradosh/?p=1080#comment-4165 I finally finished the book 'Spies'. It is a tough read; some of it down right boring. But what is inescapable is that the US of A was very lucky to get through the Cold War virtually unscathed. We had many enemies amongst us at the highest levels of government, society and business. The Left is still at this game of denial. I sure hope they wise up before we really take a fall. Thanks for the good review and rebuttal to yet more liberal flack. I finally finished the book ‘Spies’. It is a tough read; some of it down right boring. But what is inescapable is that the US of A was very lucky to get through the Cold War virtually unscathed.
We had many enemies amongst us at the highest levels of government, society and business.
The Left is still at this game of denial. I sure hope they wise up before we really take a fall.
Thanks for the good review and rebuttal to yet more liberal flack.

]]> By: JFM http://pjmedia.com/ronradosh/2009/08/10/the-debate-over-soviet-espionage-what-nicholas-lemann-of-the-new-yorker-gets-wrong/#comment-4164 JFM Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:47:10 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/ronradosh/?p=1080#comment-4164 Let's remind a few numbers. Mc Carthyism caused the execution of <b>two</b> people, under a dozen of persons were sent to jail and under two hundred government employees were fired. Let's remind that despite being able to decrypt only a small part of Russian communications the FBI had identified several thousand different codenames for agents operating in America. In addition, to the above, after an attempt of violent takeover of the entertainment industry by communist sympathises during which Regan was threatened to have acid thrown at his face and several battles with iron bars between communist and non-communist members of the entertainment industry (Kirk Douglas was active in the good guys side) and a number of "communist movies" dismal failures at box office Hollywood ended firing a number of communist actors, directyors and scenario writers. Except for the actors, who were easily identified by public, most of them would ned being hired again several years later. These were the horrible crimes of McCarthysm: two dead, a dozen jailed, a few hunded people lsosing tgheir job. In the meantime, Stalin's regime ie that regime those people were trying to duplicate in America, was, according to the <b>lowest estimations</b> killing an average of one million pople a year. That makes three thousand a day. Let’s remind a few numbers. Mc Carthyism caused the execution of two people, under a dozen of persons were sent to jail and under two hundred government employees were fired. Let’s remind that despite being able to decrypt only a small part of Russian communications the FBI had identified several thousand different codenames for agents operating in America.
In addition, to the above, after an attempt of violent takeover of the entertainment industry by communist sympathises during which Regan was threatened to have acid thrown at his face and several battles with iron bars between communist and non-communist members of the entertainment industry (Kirk Douglas was active in the good guys side) and a number of “communist movies” dismal failures at box office Hollywood ended firing a number of communist actors, directyors and scenario writers. Except for the actors, who were easily identified by public, most of them would ned being hired again several years later.

These were the horrible crimes of McCarthysm: two dead, a dozen jailed, a few hunded people lsosing tgheir job. In the meantime, Stalin’s regime ie that regime those people were trying to duplicate in America, was, according to the lowest estimations killing an average of one million pople a year. That makes three thousand a day.

]]> By: adam http://pjmedia.com/ronradosh/2009/08/10/the-debate-over-soviet-espionage-what-nicholas-lemann-of-the-new-yorker-gets-wrong/#comment-4163 adam Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:34:26 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/ronradosh/?p=1080#comment-4163 Adults need to deal with the fact that messengers will often be flawed, and learn how to criticize them while spreading and perhaps refining their message. The method of the Left is to find a couple of mistakes made by some conservative icon, treat thos mistakes as "lies," and then attach "liar" to that person forevermore like a Homeric epithet. We need to resist that method very forcefully, while not falling into idolatry or defense of the indefensible ourselves. (I'm making a general point, not accusing anyone who has commented before me, all of whom take the approach I am describing) Adults need to deal with the fact that messengers will often be flawed, and learn how to criticize them while spreading and perhaps refining their message. The method of the Left is to find a couple of mistakes made by some conservative icon, treat thos mistakes as “lies,” and then attach “liar” to that person forevermore like a Homeric epithet. We need to resist that method very forcefully, while not falling into idolatry or defense of the indefensible ourselves. (I’m making a general point, not accusing anyone who has commented before me, all of whom take the approach I am describing)

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