Kevin P – my comment hoping for discussion without insult wasn’t meant to suggest I’d detected insult. There’s a reason people avoid discussion religion and politics – it starts all fine and dandy but quickly spins out of hand. We’ve apparently managed the politics part reasonably well here at Roger’s Place. I suppose we can manage some of the religion stuff. I was just sorta warning that we should avoid taking insult where none is intended – for example a non-believer such as me might easily say something I feel is humorous whereas a believer might be insulted by the lack of seriousness.

When I intend insult I usually try to be clear about it

I agree with Bostonian that faith (the religious type) is not essential to controlling behavior. What is essential to controlling one’s own behavior is a nothing more than a set of useful values and a sense of shame. Developing those may require “faith” of one sort or another but it needn’t be religious faith. I use something I tend to see as a portion of the canon of Catherine’s Civil Religion.