Lindenen, I’m getting a little confused on what you’re trying to argue here. You’re right that most all the people I mentioned spoke English and grew up under the British system — although I could have just as easily thrown in Goethe, Voltaire, Schiller, and there were a whole lot other of Europeans involved as well; I happen to know the British thread better. Could the Enlightenment have taken root somewhere else? I have no idea how to say anything other than speculation.

As far as “wholesale rejection”, I don’t think we’re disputing the facts — we’re disputing whether or not the facts constitute a “wholesale rejection”. That’s a matter of opinion, and I don’t really see how we can form an argument one way or the other.

Were things all that different a hundred years ago? Not in some ways … but on the other hand, a hundred years ago my ancestors couldn’t legally buy liquor, or in many states, couldn’t legally marry white women. The laws against selling liquorr to Indians were still on the books, if unenforceable, when I was in high school.

Ask Colin Powell or Condi Rice if things have changed.