Wisconsin: Liberals as Reactionaries
So why has our left become so reactionary, so unwilling or unable to adapt to a changed world that they “act out” with all the juvenility of adolescents deprived of the family car keys? Some say it is because they have replaced religious faith with politics and I, an agnostic, see some truth in that. But there is more. Liberalism has become a mask for greed in our culture — a way of hiding excessive selfishness from others and, importantly, from the self. It’s a deflection, really.
We see this in the billionaire extremes of a George Soros and a John Kerry, but also now in the demonstrators in the streets of Madison. Many are suffering economically in our country. Huge numbers are unemployed. But when asked to pull together for the good of the mean, the liberals, the ones who pay the greatest lip service to equality, say NO.
They hide behind “Union! Union! Union!” and “No pasaran!,” but it’s all a fake. When the chips are down, our modern liberals are overcome by their own sense of entitlement. Christopher Lasch’s Culture of Narcissism has infected them to such a degree reality cannot intrude. I get my pension even if there’s no money, even if you have to pay for it and you’re broke without any pension of your own.
Socialism, my fat fanny! It’s just plain old selfish greed.
Exactly, Roger. One need only look to flabby McFatterson “Michael Moore” and his triple chins suing the Weinsteins over Fahrenheit 9/11 to see that greed “is good” for Leftists but not ‘evil’ for anyone else.
I’m almost tempted to become a Lefty for the ‘perks’. NOT
Have they no humility? Of course not! They are entitled to the very last penny of the private sector until our pockets have been emptied and we’ve been tipped upside down and shaken just to be certain we haven’t ‘cheated’ them out of what’s ‘rightfully’ theirs whilst Americans lose their homes, lose their jobs and go without.
Amazing that people can truly and honestly believe they should be ‘privileged’ beyond and above the rest of the working schmucks in America.
Delia, alas we suffer here in Israel from the same parasitic, greedy union thugs.They hold ALL the citizens-politicians too who are beholden to them- by the throats, as they threaten strikes, mayhem and the like on a continual basis-UNLESS their demands are met.
They have cost the average hard working citizen here millions of shekels, not caring a whit about the people they are supposed to serve!!
So, it is obvious that unions, especially public ones, are a bane on the existence of western oriented societies, regardless of where they operate.The mayhem in Greece, France and all over the world almost always has the hands of union heads in the mix.
It is not an overstatement to suggest that many of their hands are bloody too.Maybe not in the 100% provable sense before a court of law, but no less than six degrees of separation distances them from the outcome.After all, fat cats ALWAYS get others to do their dirty work, they just sit back and laugh as the useful idiots create chaos, chaos being the OPERATIVE term/goal.
IF necessary, the main inciters in Wisconsin may need a comeuppance to stop them once and for all,(peaceful protesting is their right, creating chaos and incitement isn’t) some of them will deserve a beat down from fed up taxpayers.There is only so much the average citizen can take.
We used to have a draft where we could pull troublemakers into the military where they could be taught some manners and discipline but liberals did away with it because they didn’t want their sons in the military (should have taken the fathers). We all should make it the way to entitlements again.
Well, I’m sure some liberals in Congress voted to do away with the draft, but the idea of using a volunteer army rather than an army made up largely of conscripts was the idea of Richard Nixon’s Administration.
And, to be in today’s military, you need to be able to think and you need to respect authority. US military competence (in performance of assigned tasks) has increased quite a bit since they stopped foisting young liberal incompetents upon the US armed forces.
Nixon ended the draft. OK. Why ? Could it possibly have had anything to do with the anti-war riots and blowing up of UW science buildings killing a grad student ? A funny thing happened. When Nixon ended the draft, all the anti-war riots stopped. Just like that.
QED, as we said in geometry.
I have no problems with an all volunteer force. For one thing, I believe it’s immoral to expect anyone to put his life on the line for the nation at gunpoint. For another, if we as a nation cannot muster enough volunteers to defend us, then we probably don’t deserve to have people put their lives on the line for us. And as a former NCO and commissioned officer, I really appreciate serving with people who have chosen to be there.
And finally there is the purely pragmatic reason – our current military is probably the finest fighting force ever assembled. The war in Iraq and Afghanistan was the first time in history our regular forces were ready to go from the first day. In most wars the regular forces buy time with their lives while America builds and trains a war winning citizen military. This time, we started with a corps of highly trained and motivated professional troops.
And sometimes the children of the leftists amaze us and disappoint their parents. As with Casey Sheehan, whose deranged mother has made a career of trying to dishonor her son and his sacrifice – which is entirely beyond her power.
The all volunteer army was more a libertarian than a liberal idea. And once we discovered it both led to better soldiers, and took the wind out of anti war protestors, most military and conservatives supported it too. In fact, today the only people I have heard actually consider bringing back the draft were leftist dems.
It used to be the companies that had the bloody hands. I haven’t seen any hired goons armed with machine guns busting any strikes lately, though. Companies seem to operate differently than they did in the 19th century. Seems to be the union people who use intimidation tactics these days.
I think you have it right,Adina. The labor unions are a Bolshevik entity more attuned to the Bolshevik revolution than any given individual. It uses the desires of the individual focusing those desires on what is perceived as a cause and then attacks that entity. From the way I see it this is an all consuming spirit that has been busy stirring up strife for over 150 years. It is always violent but can still sell itself as a champion of the little man when it is a real tyrant only serving its own interests.
I cannot agree with Rodger that all this is spontaneous. During WW II the Japanese made a bombing run on Oregon with a plane designed to be transported by submarine to the launch site and the intent was to set the forest on fire. Everything worked perfect except one thing. It had been raining and no fire was started. The pilot was able to return to the sub and survived the war The account was sent to me as an email received On 6/26/2010 10:52 PM
The Day Japan Bombed Oregon
By: Norm Goyer
“This Memorial Plaque is located in Brookings, Oregon at the site of the 1942 bombing,” under a cut of that plaque. This is all the information I have for the source.
The first thing an agitator needs is dry fuel and then he goes to work and fans a spark into a fire. Most of the posters here, maybe all, are just too green to be ignited by their rhetoric but there are enough protesters involved that have been ignited. That does not tell me all these demonstrators have the same goal as the union does but they are not acting independent of union agitation.
I also note the similarity of all these demonstration regardless of where they take place of in what year.
I would say they are semi spontaneous because the conditions for dissatisfaction were present but the target of the dissatisfaction may have nothing to do with its cause.
These are the things we need to weigh up and discuss and identify. We are going to be under some some form of discipline any way it goes but that is a new story for another time. The union supporter may believe he is free but for those of you who have the experience know that you have been under tyranny, free only to do the will of the union.
So sad but true, Adina (great post as usual btw). Leftism is an insidious, creeping pox on the Western world for which there is no inoculation and only the pure, unadulterated truth can cure or at least strengthen one’s resolve and immunity to stop the spreading of the mental/emotional/physical/spiritual disease of leftism.
Somehow, some way, the truth and the light must always reign and those who refuse to join the cult of leftism should not be made to feel afraid for shining the light on the evil they witness no matter which side it comes from.
I hope Israel cleans up its act along with the USA…because the ‘little cuts’ are becoming bigger and more unsustainable every day…
Amen. I’m sometimes tempted to become a Christian just to piss off a leftie.
This is one of the more politically daft things I’ve seen one side or the other pull in a long time. Obama and the current crop of Democrats have spent so much energy insulating themselves from the Great Unwashed that they don’t have a clue as to what looks good and what looks bad.
Teachers causing schools to close over government perks? Doctors on camera falsifying medical slips? Obama and the DNC meddling in a State’s politics? Did they really think that was going to fly with the public?
And worse misstep of all, with the need for the Dems to hang blame on the Republicans over a possible Federal shutdown, we’re treated to 14 Wisconsin Democrat Senators making a run for the border in an attempt to shutdown Wisconsin’s government. Do they realize they’ve already painted themselves as the party that will shutdown government in a pique?
I think it’s a bit early to start declaring winners and losers in this circus.
For instance, the news that the newly appointed head of the Wisconsin State Patrol is the dad of the Republican Speaker of the House whom Walker appointed after he was trounced in a local election certainly isn’t a win for the Republicans…
Why?
Yeah, that’s a lie of the moonbat barking-mad brigade.
The man appointed has a LONNNNNGGGGG, very distinguished career as a LEO, including a stint as U.S. Marshall (NOT deputy…Marshall), and was a sheriff, police chief, and cop in Illinois and Wisconsin.
There is NO connection…other than a smear…to Walker. There is NO evidence…other than a smear…his appointment was improper in any way.
Todays liberals, particularly the leadership, remind me of the French aristocracy of the late 19th century (before the blade of the guillotine fell). “Let them eat cake”.
I meant late 18th century.
I think the strikers think they ARE they general public, the regular folks, the working stiffs. As such, they claim our sympathy. Like the Dems in the ’08 election, however, I don’t think they accurately perceive the REAL general public’s current mood.
Ambisinistral, “Doctors on camera falsifying medical slips?” Would you, by any chance, be comfortable as a patient of one of these doctors who are voting against our best interest by lying for these AWOL teachers?
Servant class lumpenproletarians on a cheap ’60′s trip
Yes, RM, they are doing the bidding of their masters, and in doing so are bringing down the Republic by a narrative of U.S. history that can only inflame minorities and further polarize the nation. I laid it out here: http://clarespark.com/2011/02/22/inflaming-minorities-in-the-universities/. It is well to remember that the civil rights movement, a noble one and much needed, was perverted from its goals by not only the Left but by professors in our leading elite universities and foundations.
CS I would question the “noble” part of the Civil Rights. There were problems that should have been addressed by our Christian heritage but not all who say they are Christian are followers of Christ for they do not love him by keeping his commandments. Civil rights are following a different spirit and bearing a different fruit. If we were faithful in following the commandments of our Lord there would be no need of any civil rights movement. Look at the fruit it is bearing.
Leftists are spoiled children and I hope the spirit of Wisconsin (Governor’s that is) reaches every state.
Reactionaries? If the shoe fits.
The cry baby creatures gathered in the streets of Madison remind me of a football team that knows only one play.
Eventually the defense catches on. Once again, the running back takes a hand off and gets destroyed by the middle linebacker.
One might ask why the Leftist team runs the same play over and over. The answer is probably obvious. It’s the only one they know, and they’re so locked into their thinking, they refuse to consider an alternative. Do they really think Hitler signs demonstrate original, critical thinking? Innovation, it appears, isn’t in the Alinsky playbook.
It’s morning in America I hope and pray.
The grown ups are taking over. For all his attempts at sounding Presidential in Tucson, Obama is back to form sounding and acting like a spoiled brat. Democratic senators from Madison are playing hide and seek. And America is losing its patience with the temper tantrum contingent. Someone, please direct the knaves to the nearest time out room.
Madison, I’m afraid, will be remembered as the place where the reactionaries, ironically, got not the governor to back down; got none of their demands; received nothing from middle America but contempt.
Well, on second thought, maybe the baby Marxists and thug unionists and greedy teachers did get something that they’ve needed for a long time: the spanking of their lives.
Methinks many need more than a spanking like jail time for some of their behavior. We either have rule of law or we don’t. If not, it’s simple anarchy. If not stopped in it’s tracks that’s where we’re headed. I’m glad conservatives were patient for the last couple of years and the left is now the ones pushing for trouble. BTW, I just read an article about George Soros calling tea party advocates fascists. This from the biggest social fascist of them all.
Why do they run the same play over and over? Partly because it has worked so well for them up until now. With the Left’s takeover of the media, the art world, the universities, pop culture and so on, they have controlled the narrative for at least 3 decades. And they have largely made it work for them, as “conservatives” have played defense.
We can hope the “the grownups are taking over.” But where were those grownups in 2008, when they permitted themselves to be swindled by the Obama machine? These putative grownups are awakening rather belatedly from their own very un-grownup hopey-changey daydream. Will they stay awake? We shall see.
Gee, how can it be reactionary when it is all about social justice?
I kid because I love.
There was very little spontaneous about this action. The scene was carefully chosen. DO NOT underestimate these people because what they say sounds nuts.
A voice of reason!
One of our biggest problems on the right is that we’re constantly underestimating our enemy.
They know it. They COUNT on it.
Last trip to the DMV to renew my driver’s license confirmed for me for all time my contempt for government workers.
Further rant: I’m retired but in my former life I held a medical license in the State of TN but it has been inactive for seven years. Then I started getting dunning letters for payment of a privilege tax even tho I don’t live in TN and don’t practice! So TN suspended my medical license. Big whoop! Then I got a letter from the State of NY where I last practiced in 1984 (!) demanding records and a detailed explanation of the circumstances of my suspension! (I don’t live in NY either and have not renewed my license there in over 20 years.)
Bottom line: the govt is an over-reaching bureaucratic monster that must be stopped!
I think it was a more spontaneous eruption of deeply nostalgic (now reactionary) views, dating, for Wisconsin, from as far back as SDS and the Port Huron Statement through the “glory days” of anti-Vietnam War protests.
Oh, it goes much further back than that in Wisconsin. Wisconsin was the birthplace of the Progressive movement back in the early part of the 20th century. Milwaukee had socialist mayors before the 1960′s. I think you can trace it back to the mix of Scandi immigrants and German refugees from the failed Revolutions of 1848. The Scandi mix has certainly been a very strong influence on Minnesota’s politics as well.
The rest of what you write is spot-on. Interesting, isn’t it? People always complain about pols lying to them, but when Walker appears before the cameras and says flatly, no, I am not going to compromise because we are broke, my, how enraging that it. Many among us prefer pretty lies.
Sorry, Donna – I think I repeated some of what you said in my comment farther down. Teach me to read the whole thread before shooting off my mouth…
You make a good point. I wonder how much of what we’re seeing has to do with local tradition. Would this have happened in, say, Richmond or Rochester?
Reactionaries or effing little crybabies, makes no difference to me what they are called. Their “reality show” in Madison is about to be canceled.
A question to the PJM readers and commenters who know history better than me, how did the D-party go from the days of Robert Kennedy fighting the unions to having a full-time cheerleader in the White House? Is the way unions use their money much different in comparing then and now? Or, are RFK and BHO from very different wings of the D-party?
RFK didn’t go at it with unions so much as he went head to head against Jimmy Hoffa and his connections to organized crime. I think RFK would fit right in with the current democratic party. He was every bit as liberal as The Swimmer.
Your fat fanny couldn’t be more correct. How about the socialists stomping their feet and screaming with outrage SPREAD SOME OF THE WEALTH AROUND? Socialism and all its stinky little evil step siblings were always about peddling a bait and switch idea that would make a few rich at the expense of many. Need proof? Look no further than the king of all socialist BS still clinging to life because he is terrified to meet his “reward” – brother Fidel. How anyone can still peddle the fantastic lies about the glories of socialism when faced with that perversion, his enormous wealth contrasted with the enormous poverty of the rest of that island prison, beggars belief. Let us all hope that greed is the true culprit because the other alternative is abject stupidity and they are TEACHING OUR CHILDREN. Your idea of calling them all reactionaries is brilliant and it will work. Why? Because it is true. And besides, it’ll piss them off and the rest of us need a good laugh.
Yep, these people are teaching our children. People with NO morals whatsoever. These people have no problem lying about being sick, and defrauding the state government with fake excuses. Too many kids graduate from high school barely able to sign their names to welfare checks. The American education system is rotting from within. The best thing any parent can do is pull their kids out of this failing system, and educate them themselves. Stop entrusting your kids to a bunch of immoral law-breaking liars.
Oh, by the way, have you seen Detroit’s answer to no money for schools? Put 60 kids in one class. They’re going to learn a LOT, aren’t they? But not what you would hope.
Most WI teachers send their own children to private schools. Hows THAT for confidence in your own product?
“[T]hey are TEACHING OUR CHILDREN”
Scary, isn’t it?
Yet another reason to private or home-school your child…
Both of you are correct.
Fascism is merely a variation on the most ancient of the collectivist perversions: the thesis that some anointed one(s) can and should make all our decisions for all of us. It places the State above all human concerns…just as contemporary American liberalism does.
These days, “reactionary” is a pejorative term, but in its dictionary usage, it means the desire to revert to an earlier state of affairs. Once again, fascism and liberalism share this quality.
However, the “kicker” is that fascism of the modern American liberal flavor is popular, has been for some time, and is deeply entrenched in our laws and in our conceptions of society. No ladling-on of pejoratives will undo it without massive and painful changes, and an equally massive and painful re-education of the citizenry to what we’ve allowed to be done to us by believing we could get something for nothing.
Very true.
In considering things like this, I always seem to find my mind going back to the brilliant Dr. Thomas Sowell, in his book The Vision of the Anointed, where he describes lefties as “self-anointed elites.”
So, of course THEY deserve THEIR pensions, regardless of how much it hurts the little people… they are The Elite, don’t you know that?
“Milwaukee had socialist mayors before the 1960′s.”
That’s right, and our “progressive” friends are very nostalgic for those days. The cult of Frank Zeidler lives on in their tiny, twisted, power-mad little minds.
“I think you can trace it back to the mix of Scandi immigrants and German refugees from the failed Revolutions of 1848.”
Yes indeed, very much so. This is an excellent argument for restrictive immigration policies.
Excellent psychoanalytic treatise of the American Left, Roger.
I applaud you.
Love union Wisconsin teachers telling all the taxpayers of Wisconsin (in essence) “Go to Hell. I’m better than you, taxpayers.”
The times they are a-changin and all of the public sector will appropriately soon have to pay more for healthcare and their pensions. Past practice” will soon hold less weight than previously at the bargaining table, IF there is a bargaining table. But anything which involves economics has so many figures which can be spun so many different ways that the “truths” of either side continue to sound more like PR than truths, and is one reason collective bargaining came into existence. If you can’t strike, you must be able to bargain, but the rules have to be tweaked and tumbled as needed.
For some history on union activity on this date in our past, check out
On this date…in 1860, thousands of striking shoeworkers filled Lyceum Hall in Lynn. By choosing to begin their protest on Washington’s birthday, the strikers were invoking the memory of their revolutionary forefathers. Lynn had been a shoemaking town since the early 1800s. Hard times had now caused management to cut wages and speed up production. Declaring they would “live by honest toil, but never consent to be slaves,” over 20,000 workers — more than had participated in any previous strike — joined the walkout. The size of the protest did not insure its success, however. With the owners refusing to negotiate and growing numbers of workers returning to their jobs, the strike collapsed after six weeks. (many more specifics at)
http://www.massmoments.org/moment.cfm?mid=60
Ping Pong “truth”? So now you want to be friends huh? Convenient! Blowin’ in the Wind? Rightward now?
Gosh D-White the Dinosaur, why not invoke Spartacus? Let’s race to the time line and most awful things that can be found to support Left Side Story.
Looks like The Pick It Fence leaned more and more left, and it simply fell over into Wisconsin brown, decaying vegetation. Those fence posts were rotten, and a little breeze from the Right has caused Mass Modern Liberal Hysteria to break out. Now the “righties” are being called on to perform CPR on rotting Modern Liberals. Convenient!
Hey D-White, high school teacher and union member, schooler of unwashed “righties”, how is Mass doing these days? Can you feel Palin’s less spending steamroller rumbling your way? Better get moving, Indiana Ping Pong Tongue, or you may wind up being an educated squawking manhole cover on Commonwealth Ave.
Cheers!
That he hardly knows which game to play…
Which words to say…
While I did enjoy the quote from “Lather,” I feel I should point out that there is more than one “Dwight” in the English-speaking world. This might not be the one you were thinking of.
Fits The Dinosaur’s M.O. to a “T”, Mr. Porretto.
And if not, I will gladly own up to it.
There has not been one incident, to the best of my knowledge, pointing to Dual Dwights. Not a peep of, “That’s not me”.
Comment, D-White, Red Pencil Neck? Looking kind of Thin there?
You walk into the room
With your pencil in your hand
You see somebody naked
And you say, “Who is that man?”
Francis, Mr Lucky is of an excitable artistic temperament, creative, one would hope, but apparently has trouble in relationships. I offer nothing but warmth, understanding, and political counseling across a broad spectrum of interests and perspectives and he can muster a real observation or two only occasionally amid a sea of his own or borrowed images, wielded to be hurtful to one as sensitive as myself.
Yet I have learned to deal with the world as I found it, whereas Mr L cries out with the outrage of a prophet, railing against liberals, but in language cloaked in sinuous insinuations; a slightly obsessive rhythm of personal offerings and malice.
Lo, the prophet hopes for Palin of the North to bring forth a New Jerusalem. At times he has even more of a sense of humor than I supposed.
There we go. Much like “Fascinated With Alaska”. A much more kindly Public Employee approach. The Modern Liberal equivalent of Freudian Fakery.
Red Pencil Neck, can you discern the difference between a movement and the personalities within that movement? What was that, Palin is but a symbol?
Hmmm…
“Lo, the prophet hopes for Palin of the North to bring forth a New Jerusalem.”
38. Dwight
“I am fascinated by Alaska, but not quite so much by her any more. It’s like she works at sounding like a hick. I like to hunt, explore, and do most the outdoorsy stuff, but she just gets more grating by the month, and her voice gets more shrill. Maybe it’s just me but she does not sound as comfortable in her own skin as she did when I first heard her. Possibly she was just playing a role then…”
October 20, 2010 – 5:14 am
Dwight
“…schlepping a bit in the sticks since before Palin was born, so we’d have a tough time attributing my outdoorsiness to Sarah. I have been to Wasilla, though, if only passing through. As I recall, I bought boots and firecrackers at Fred Meyer. What did you get; a latte, maybe Preparation H?”
“As for lust for Sarah-poo, alas, the “folksy/twangy” bit is a serious turn-off. She is a beautiful woman, but once she opens her mouth…aaargh!”
October 20, 2010 – 5:05 pm
You have many contacts
Among the lumberjacks
To get you facts
When someone attacks your imagination…
Is there a point in there, somewhere?
I’m unclear on what these postings from the Dwight archives are supposed to accomplish. They seem to have some particular, and most likely peculiar resonance with you, but I have no idea what it is.
Would you like more Alaska stories? Denali, Fairbanks, Eagle, Valdez, Homer and more. I got ‘em.
Jeez D-White, “…but I have no idea what it is.”
Because something is happening here
But you don’t know what it is…
Mr Lucky
Do you Mr Lucky
I am waiting for a politician, (walker, christie…) to publish an outline of the perks to the unions and the cost of those perks to the American people.
ie $22,000 of health care paid for by WI tax payers to the teachers.
ie how much tax payer $ is paid directly into the union coffers on the guise of worker contributions.
A simple outline could cause a simple action. An end to the public union tapeworm.
Just a thought.
There may be a nostalgia for the pre-1980s era of union sticks, or even the “Truth to Power” protests of the Vietnam era. But what these major protests have inadvertently done is publicize to people not normally focused on politics exactly how much public sector workers are making, in salaries, benefits and retirement packages, compared to what their own pay packages are.
Most of those increases over the past 40 years have been granted under the radar. But by making their stand, the unions have brought that battle out into the open, and are suddenly finding out it’s harder to get the masses behind you when you’re making more than the vast majority of the masses, and doing it on the back of their taxes. Not even the greatest community activist in the universe can sell that one.
It wouldn’t hurt to add a line describing how the Union distributes those funds from members’ dues–perhaps including the salaries & perks of Union officials.
And don’t forget to mention those large campaign contributions from those same union dues to the Democrat politicians who make those cushy benefits possible by fleecing the taxpayers in exchange for Democrat votes from union members in every election. Nice racket they’ve had going, at least until they ran out of “other people’s money.”
Right. It has also drawn the public’s attention to the vast sense of entitlement these people have about their jobs and their salaries, benefits and pensions. Attitude of entitled indifference may have been visible at the DMV or on other occasions when ordinary citizens encounter public employees. But seeing thousands of them chanting 60s slogans in the streets, hearing themselves called racists because they see the unsustainibility of public worker economics, hearing themselves not included in the category of “working families” that they are supposed to feel sympathetic toward—well these are educational for many voters. And seeing Obama, the DNC, Pelosi and toehr Democrat leaders relfexively throw in with the unions in a state matter, and the childish decamping of Wisconsin legislators out of state, have exposed the dank underbelly of the unholy alliance between Democrats and public employees’ unions.
The left – whether socialist, fascist, communist or whatever – live in a ‘virtual world’. That’s the world of the imaginary, the world of words.
So, they define themselves as ‘Workers’. Therefore, to them, the word ‘worker’ means exploited-by-the-boss, underpaid, overworked, etc. The boss in this case is the Government.
Reality never intrudes on their virtual world. The fact that they are not exploited but are instead – The Rich – never occurs to them. The fact that they are taking from the taxpayer, that their salaries and wages far exceed those of the private sector – this never intrudes on their World Trapped Within Words.
I believe you hit the nail on the head, ETAB. The protesters in Wisconsin are “a world trapped in words.” I can vouch for this because I used to be one of those Wisconsin union leftists, until I took a journey similar to the paths of Roger Simon, David Horowitz, Victor Davis Hanson, etc. A line from an old Simon and Garfunkel song says it best: “A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest.” Three of my siblings are Wisconsin teachers. The trouble in Wisconsin is tearing our family apart.
There are many of us who have ‘made the journey’ from liberal to conservative – myself included. The quote from the Simon & Garfunkle song ‘The Boxer’ is appropriate – and all too true. Too many of us discard what we don’t wish to hear when it goes against the grain of our own beliefs. There are none better at practicing this than the American Left.
Their main competition would come from the American right. If they are open to new truths, you could fool me.
As Reagan said – Liberals know so much that just isn’t so. They operate on the idea that they do ‘know it all’.
They don’t – and the sheer lack of truth is on display every night – just watch the MSM.
Methinks you are fooled too easily.
My husband said that people on the Rush Limbaugh show are drawing a distinction between “workers” and “employees.” Think about it. There is a huge difference. We’re “employees” in the United States, not “workers,” as the lefties would have it.
Excellent point! “Employee” doesn’t sound very romantic. You’re an employee of my company. You’re currently employed, but that status could change. When you don’t have a job, you’re unemployed. An unemployed person. You’re a statistic.
“Worker” sounds great! Workers get things done! They power the wheels of commerce! They’re important! They’re Noble! And once a Worker, always a Worker! On the other hand, Workers are also the perpetual victims of the unjust Capitalist System! That’s why Workers have to unite, to bargain collectively, to STRIKE! It’s ALWAYS BEEN this way and it ALWAYS WILL be this way! That’s why you should join the Union while you may, don’t wait ’til your dying day, cuz that may not be far away…
Funny, but most of the employees I know are happier and doing better than most of the Workers I’m always hearing about. Wonder if it’s because of the words.
It’s not just “workers” nowadays, but “working families”. That’s the term the unions and others on the left have decided to use as the best way to describe their plans to the voters.
The union-sponsored poll on the Wisconsin standoff used it; you’ve got a whole far-left political party in New York named after it, and it’s also trotted out by the big media, as if putting “working (worker)” together with “families” will make their position unassailable. It’s kind of like the way “liberal” became “progressive” because the public caught on to the first term and was automatically suspicious of anyone with the ‘liberal’ tag. My guess is “working famlies” will go the same way in a few years, while it’s supporters will find some new term to describe themselves, or use a term like “adorable puppies” that the public just can’t dislike.
Exactly. “Working families” is simply leftist code for “unions.” The term “worker,” of course, comes from hoary Marxist orthodoxy, pitting those who work against those who own land and the means of production and who live off the labor of the “workers.” Despite the complete collapse of this model, the unions and their fellow travelers still use the term as a password to identify themselves to each other. You can hear Obama and other Dem leaders use the term “working families” in many or most of their speeches. It is a signal to the unions of their loyalty.
As you point out, they have added the word “families” to disguise its true meaning and make it sound more palatable to guillible voters who think they mean, well, them too. But the unions and Dem leaders know what they really mean, because they know the code.
I think this is one of the important mistakes the Dems/unions are making over the Wisconsin controversy. Voters concerned about deficits hear themselves described as “tea baggers,” fascists and so on. This arouses their competitive spirit, I believe. And when they hear unionized teachers refer to themselves as “working families,” entitled to things the voters themselves are not, those voters also notice that they are not included in the term “working families.” Yet they work, do they not? They then begin to notice how and when this code phrase is used, and it loses its public effectiveness, as its true meaning becomes obvious. One more way they are blowing their cover.
I wonder when the left will discover that racism is behind the upwelling of opposition to bloated public salaries and pensions.
Once upon a time, I was a member of the National Education Association, because despite their leftist activism, membership offered me liability insurance to protect me from lawsuits.
Of course, the mere fact that we teachers live in fear of lawsuits is because of the culture of litigation and victimology. A culture which is, of course, created and nurtured by the left in the first place. They really get you coming and going, don’t they?
Watching the goings-on in Wisconsin, I’ve never been so glad to have moved on in my career. I will never again be affiliated with the NEA.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-piPkgAUo0w
In which NEA General Counsel Bob Chanin says…”It is NOT about the children and it is NOT about a vision of Public education for every child.”
The cat is out of the bag. Run with it.
Its never about the children….
In previous strikes, our local Teaches Union Boss said the following:
“I dont represent the children, I represent the teachers..when the kids start paying union dues, then I’ll represent their concerns”
Of course, in the recent “contract negotioations” the Union order was to:
1) Take down all artwork, posters and projects in the K-8 halls and classrooms, because its “extra, beyond contract” work.
2) No letters of recomendation for any student (unless their parents worked for the district), because that was “not a contract obligation” as well.
3) Skip parent teacher conferences, and back to school night, because they dont get “paid” to be there.
4) Issue “reading homework” assignments that include a story about a poor $25,000 a year assistant teacher, dismissed for budget reasons, and how the kids rally to get her re-hired. Complete with the study questions: “Should teachers today be paid more or less? Why?” and “How does underfunding education hurt you? Explain”
This, in a district where the AVERAGE teachers salary is $100,000. No contributions to health care or pensions. Plus a 401k plan that, when the market turns down (like in 2000 and today) they have the NERVE to ask for a “cash enhancement” to make it “whole” again.
Other past gems from the Union President oncerning over taxed seniors struggling to keep their homes before the bubble burst:
“They are sitting on a ton of equity that, quite frankly, is due in large part to the quality and reputation of the local schools…people know this is a very desirable place to re-locate to….they could easily get a home equity line of credit to meet their financial obligations”
She not only FEELS you should go into DEBT to pay her salary, she has no problem with SAYING so to the local paper.
The most recent one is:
“Its not the teachers fault the parents cant keep up in the economy, why should we give up our standard of living?”
Its never about the kids…it never was…
Take back the WI State House like we took back ATTICA.
That’s a pretty tortured logic by the union leaders. Why should the parents give up their standard of living for the teachers? Why should the elderly go into debt and give up their standard of living for the teachers? What are the teachers giving up, on their side, so that those parents and elderly aren’t harmed?
Why should a public service employee receive higher wages and benefits than a private sector employee?
ETAB
Thanks for the civil response to my post…I have been somewhat rude and insulting to some of your comments recently, and I apologize.
“although passions may have strained, they must not break” the respect we have for eachother in the exchange of ideas, even when we at times disagree …
Those damn Union Bums have me on short fuse lately
Most people posting to PJM could step in a classroom tomorrow and be an adequate teacher in the discipline they are trained in. For the earlier grades, there isn’t even a skill requirement; the requirement is more an affection for children, which is pretty common. Any functioning adult who wants to do it can manage a classroom of young children, if not immediately, then with a couple of weeks or months exposure to someone who has learned how to do it.
It certainly is possible for a teacher to be exceptional and to be able to help slow learners and to inspire exceptional kids. People with that talent are valuable and should be well compensated. But most teachers are average people and many are simply bad at what they do. Test scores prove it.
That doesn’t describe the ideal world that teachers would like you to think that they operate in. It describes reality.
Since the union contracts are written to NOT reward exceptionalism, teachers should be paid less than a normal person is worth in the free market where they live, because the demands of the job are significantly less than the demands of almost every full-time job. Teachers are average people. Unless the system is changed to recognize and encourage exceptional ones, there is no reason the compensation should be greater than the rest of society.
Right. A major argument of teachers’ unions is that (because it’s all for the children) teachers need to be paid more so we can attract the best people to teach. But in middle school and beyond, they don’t look for math majors to teach math, science majors to teach science or histroy or English or Spanish majors. They look for education degrees, put out by the colleges in the education guild. So much for caring about the most qualified. Add to that tenure after three years, vehement resistance to merit pay, insistence on layoffs by seniority rather than performance and ferocious opposition to any different or outside ideas about antyhing other than more of the same currently failing practices, and the claim that salary demands are all about having the highest quality teachers dissolves into absurdity.
The implication of the teachers’ arguments for higher salaries is that all these highly qualified teachers will go into the fabulously more lucrative private secotr instead of selflessly teaching the children. Right. I invite any of them who feel this way to try their luck out here in the fabulously lucrative private sector, and they will quickly realize what they are really worth. And their are probably 10 unemployed teachers waining to fill every vacated spot. Oh, and out here in the private sector, we have to actually work…all year long.
Good school systems DO look for teachers who have majored in the field in which they teach, especially in high school. Your logic about the progression of what they look for and when is reversed. It matters less in the lower grades.
The chuckle of the day is imagining Proreason in the classroom. There are some people who are such loose cannons, you know that they would overreact and shoot their mouths off, and then have to learn how to backtrack and smarten up…or face endless parental complaints. It would be a short teaching career. You are correct that a lot of it is about common sense, but maintaining common sense (and actually teaching something) in front of 100 students, aged 14-18.
I will say for at least the tenth time that if it is so easy and the pay is so great, then stop complaining about it and get a job doing it.
Gee dwightmatthewjosephlawrencebill, why would I want to take a massive cut in compensation to deal with children such as yourself. Plus, I don’t have any patience for people who can only repeat pablum they read on nutter websites and who, for some unknown reason, enjoy repetitively making asses of themselves in public.
And since that has come up, let’s examine the psychology of the happy little marxist cranks. They don’t persuade anyone. They are fully aware of that, so there can be no satisfaction of educating other people. A guy like matthew spends too much time to be getting paid for it, and even if he did, it would be pocket change. Many posters get positive feedback on what they write, which can be motivating, but matthew never gets any positive feedback, so it can’t be ego-enhancing. Everyone here thinks he is an idiot, so he can’t possibly feel like he is among friends. And his drivel goes into the bit bucket, so it’s not like he is building a body of work.
The only reason they do it is to piss people off.
Here you have matthewdwigt whoever, spending a couple of hours a day just on PJM….for the exlusive purpose of pissing people off.
Sicko.
Well, Dwight, I already ahve a job and a career, thanks. I’ve been at it a long time. I have worked harder than any teacher can possibly imagine for more years than most of them will work in their lifetimes. I don’t have a sense of entitlement about it. I don’t whine about how tough it is, or how overworked and underpaid I am. And I don’t buy politicians with my union dues to force other people to pay me more tha what the market bears.
And if people in the private secotr have it so great, and if we nheed to pay teachers more and more so we will “attract the highest quality,” maybe those high quality people should try their luck in the private sector, where they will quickly find out what their talents are really worth.
Proreason, Boo-hoo. You can dish it out, but you can’t take it.
That’s not the first time I’ve heard that. It was over a decade ago when a state legislator in WA said it even more bluntly: retirees should get reverse mortgages in order to be able to pay their property taxes. They really believe that that’s reasonable.
Reminds me of the situation here in DC. Previous education boss fired a bunch of teachers, mostly due to poor performance. Successor (a “populist” Democrat) re-hired them, performance be damned. The lesson: It’s not about providing DCs children with the best teachers, it’s about keeping people employed – end of story.
Every time I see some teacher with a sign proclaiming their actions are ‘for the children’ I want to kick their butt and burn the sign. I keep asking how dumb they think we really are – when in fact they believe we are are just as dumb as most politicians think we are.
Perhaps I have an overly simplistic view of them much like they have of us – their sign should read ‘It’s for ME’.
The conservative cause can lose yet because of a hostile MSM and fickle moderates. Just let ‘em have collective bargaining, it’s no big deal, be reasonable, etc…
When you have spent your whole life clinging to a sugar-teat, real life tastes kinda bitter.
If things are this ugly over the minor changes proposed by Walker, be prepared for a shock. The depth of cuts necessary to restore this country to a degree of financial stability will result in civil unrest akin to what we are seeing in the Middle East.
Sadly, if those cuts are NOT made and we have an uncontrolled melt-down, it will be cataclysmic.
Great choices. Thanks, Obama.
Hey, Obama has been angling for a violent clash from the beginning. He often goes out of his way to piss off his opponents. Middle finger to the cheek; bitter clingers; there are hundreds of examples. His personality was designed for him to create conflict.
He’s a hard-core marxist. Always has been.
We should all be happy that it is happening now. Bring it on.
That’s cool by me (the cuts, that is). We nned to do it now so we can adjust to it – and adjust we will. We HAVE to be able to use our own resources though otherwise it will be a bust.
Just to be clear: The Port Huron Statement was written in Michigan.
“Progressive reactionaries” is a phrase I’ve been using for 3-4 years now.
“EVERY demonstration by a union is politically correct and demands popular support.”
Yes, indeed, especially when the purpose of the “demonstration” is to rob the public. NOT “soak corporate fat-cats.” Steal from the poor and give to the rich! The average Wisconsin schoolteacher makes at least twice what the poor schmuck caught in a real, private-sector job does. “Cough up, sucker!” Were medieval barons and priests any more brazen?
“We only want SOCIAL JUSTICE!”
I’ll give you social justice. You’re all fired! Now you can feel what unemployment is like, just like the poor schmucks you have been soaking for the past twenty years. We’ll go out and hire some teachers that want to teach, and pay them HALF of what you were extorting from the common man.
“Progressive reactionaries,” indeed!
“I think it was a more spontaneous eruption of deeply nostalgic (now reactionary) views…”
Some of the union and administration spokesdrones have been using talking points that date to the mid 1930s. From the way they’ve been talking, you’d think there were Pinkerton agents cracking skulls in Madison, with the help of the local police.
Actually Roger, you’re missing the bigger picture about the Big L Liberals.
They have _always_ been reactionaries. They have always stood for nobles rights, subservience of the citizenry, and a government ruling by divine right in whatever form it can be manifest.
Their power is in their running from labels and how quickly people accept their rebranding. Today’s Liberals and their ilk are exactly the same as those who sought to end our defense of a non-communist ally in S. Vietnam and are the same as the evil folks who burned Mississippi and are the same as those who seceded instead of modernizing.
Same people, same goals just new names and faces.
“Liberalism has become a mask for greed in our culture — a way of hiding excessive selfishness from others and, importantly, from the self. It’s a deflection, really.”
Amen.
I’m called “greedy” because I want to keep a little bit more of what I work to earn. The people calling me “greedy” say that money will be spent on the poor and unfortunate — except that an absurdly high amount gets stuck in their pockets.
We are called greedy, because we want to keep a bit more of our OWN money….
The folks CALLING us greedy, are the ones who take it as if THEY own it.
And that irony, that hypocracy, is never evident to them or anyone in the mainstream media.
Its time to let “the Buckshot sing the song”
Take back the WI statehouse like we took back ATTICA.
The fundamental difference is that they say might makes right. They spend a lot of time disguising that, but that is the bedlock belief.
There haven’t been many cultures that actually operated with a rule of laws that have been applied relatively uniformly to everybody in the country.
Basically, they want to turn back the clock to the norm…conveniently, with them in charge.
The basic Progressive agenda – using the power of government to “improve” life for “the little people” – sounds like Might being harnessed to the service of Right. A very high-minded ambition. Unfortunately, Might working for Right can be just as oppressive as Might working for Wrong. And oppression is oppression, good cause or no.
It’s worse than this, Roger.
Unfunded pensions, borrowing for today’s worker’s party operative, on the backs of our children and grandchildren.
Politboro style favors and protectionism against firing of the incompetent, the lazy, the stupid, the malicious, the criminal, the insane…government workers’ party operative.
Indoctrination of our schoolchildren in the ways of graft and corruption by the workers’ party operatives.
A Pravda style censorship of the truth and distortion of the facts by the workers’ party media.
The failure to pay into the system a “fair share”, leaving the non-worker party taxpayers to carry an unfair burden on their shoulders.
The entire economy is collapsing under the weight of the oppressive deals cut by Democratic politicians who are supported by the workers’ party, the ACORN-SEIU voting scandals, …all enuring to the benefit of leftist Democrats….who then pay back the piper by giving away money, contracts, goodies, freebies and protection to the thugs, criminals, and thieves who will not be prosecuted by our DOJ.
This, my dear fried Roger…is not “reactionary”. This…is treason.
Isn’t the root of Socialism greed? Hasn’t it always been? I don’t have as much as you so I want some (or all) of your’s?
Reactionary is the polite way of saying it.
Peel away the lies and they are criminals.
Criminals don’t respect other people, their rights, the law or societal norms. They lie, cheat and steal to get what they want. They have no sense of community and will turn on fellow travelers in a flash.
How is that any different from the people raging in Wisconsis, the democrats in Washington, or the president?
Why sugarcoat it?
Uh, oh, Drudge has this & let’s hope the Stupid Party can capitalize, more of the 3 R’s less social justice, cos Johnny is dumber than a rock, or Is our children learning?
Two-thirds of the eighth graders in Wisconsin public schools cannot read proficiently according to the U.S. Department of Education, despite the fact that Wisconsin spends more per pupil in its public schools than any other state in the Midwest….
…1998, according to the U.S. Department of Education, Wisconsin public school eighth graders scored an average of 266 out of 500 on the NAEP reading test. In 2009, Wisconsin public school eighth graders once again scored an average of 266 out of 500 on the NAEP reading test. Meanwhile, Wisconsin public schools increased their per pupil expenditures from $4,956 per pupil in 1998 to 10,791 per pupil in 2008. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics inflation calculator the $4,956 Wisconsin spent per pupil in 1998 dollars equaled $6,546 in 2008 dollars. That means that from 1998 to 2008, Wisconsin public schools increased their per pupil spending by $4,245 in real terms yet did not add a single point to the reading scores of their eighth graders and still could lift only one-third of their eighth graders to at least a “proficient” level in reading.
I agree that it’s about greed. I think that it’s greed for power as much as it is greed for money.
Speaking of clinging to the past, why does Pajamas Media use these annoying Java adware-apps popping up on the bottom of my browser? I guess I should be thankful you’re not spamming me with pop-under Viagra ads, but I get the feeling that’s next.
One reason only, Brian. Trying to make a little bit of money to pay our staff. Wish it were otherwise. We don’t like them either.
Free enterpise is annoying; except for the parts about doubled life spans, comforts kings couldn’t have envisioned 100 years ago, access to the knowledge of millenia at your fingertips, 10,000 food choices, and trasportation that was considered magic in the 1800′s.
Other than nits like that, state controlled societies are the best choice.
Absolutely correct, and without the moral clarity to understand their current failure is built upon past deceit.
The basic tenets of progressivism was, is and will always be a house built on sand.
This explains a lot. It’s interesting to watch the denial in action as the reactionaries’ lead propagandists (the columnists at NYT and WaPo) strain (as if in bowel movement) to make the case that Wisconsin’s financial problems are just a cover for some VWRC union-busting. Or it’s simple greed as if Wisconsin has some vast underground reserves of gold bars that they don’t want to share with anyone. But not a word from any of these people when John Kerry docks his New Zealand-made yacht in Rhode Island trying to avoid a few grand in Massachusetts taxes (the amount of money his wife makes in maybe a weeks worth of ketchup sales) or George Soros raking in who-knows-how-much playing games with currencies and commodities with no regard to the wreckage he leaves in his wake. Reactionaries? Yeah. But in my old neighborhood, we called these people “crooks”.
Good article. Have you noticed that leftists tend to be very “compassionate” with money they did not earn, but extract from the taxpayers, while conservatives lead dramatically on voluntary private charity?
One of the left’s most cherished criticisms of conservatives is that we want to take America back to a fictionalized 1950s-era that never happened, at least not with the golden glow that leftists believe conservatives ascribe to that era.
This dovetails nicely with your analysis, Mr. Simon. The Golden Era of Public Sector Unions began in Wisconsin in the 1950s, and it certainly seems like the Madison protestors want to stay in that era despite the reality that is thundering around them.
Roger,
Dateline Michigan,
I became a conservative shortly after graduating college and entering the business world when I flipped the switch and the light came on and showed me the world as it really is.
My wife, 32 years in education-masters degree-sensible-often votes conservative with me after I explain the real world IS a die-hard union member. Other than that she is totally and completely brainwashed. Intelligent, caring, wonderful person, not remotely greedy, shirt off the back in every other way. BUT..BY.. GOD… DO… NOT… TOUCH… THE… UNION… or say anything negative about it.
WE constantly talk, not argue, about education, she sees and acknowledges what is wrong (no shame, no accountability, an anything goes culture, parents and administration elites, NOT teachers at fault, I happen to agree)and her favorite statement about government is “Another well intentioned law gone bad”.
Just an observation but I think there are way more public employees out there like her than the socialist lefty liberal all too often profiled from the right and I’m on the right mind you. However they are absoutely brainwashed and no I do not get it.
I would add that the teachers of today do not get the respect as a profession that they did 40 years age nor the support from parents and certainly not from school boards or the administrators. This may be part of it as well, a lashing out if you will.
I hope Walker, Christe, Snyder, Kusich, Scott and the rest stick to their guns and bring the public sector employees into line with reality.
P.S. 98.3% of all law enforcement people that I know and I know a lot are conservative and mostly union. Riddle me that one. I think I know why.
larsky, I really identify with your post. I’m a teacher who’s very much like the wife you describe, and who also knows altogether about the brutally tough conditions under which teachers now work, which you acknowledge.
I feel between a rock and a hard place because even the best teachers are now treated like serfs, really, by the kids, their parents and administration. But then, too often, teachers behave like arrogant tyrants, via their unions, in trying to bargain. Of course though, the unions, full of REALLY FAT CATS (often literally), deal mainly with financial concerns: my union’s USELESS re improving our in-the-trenches working conditions—there’s no financial incentive for them to do so. And most of the unionists have serious conflict of interest issues, as most aspire to return to the system as administrators: that’s where the really big bucks are—minus the day to day GRIND of the classroom. (proreason, with respect, the job’s not nearly as easy as you posit. To do it well, it really does take a great deal of skill and knowledge: I know grade two classes that would eat the average non teacher well before lunch!)
By the grace of God—I think, literally—I’ve never been pro-union. Yes, I helped mine a few times at parliamentary hearings, when we were being treated quite unfairly (that CAN happen!) because I’m articulate and am actually able to make a coherent, well-constructed argument—not a talent possessed by union useful idiots, which is what most of them appear to be. Generally, however, I’ve had serious issues with my union’s modus operandi and have challenged it. The run-arounds and gauntlets I’ve been put through, just for reasonably and intelligently asking, “Please sir (or more likely, some soft-headed, hard hearted feminist mademoiselle), this doesn’t make sense.” E.g., I was once told that I had no right to have a letter I’d submitted published, unless I ran for—and won—an office in the union. As a fully paid up member of my union—for these so-called “pro-choice’ types, there’s no choice about that—this, of course was bollocks. Unions have no sense of irony, and this point went right over these idiots’ heads. Then I just kept my head down—but did not go on strike the next time we were expected to: more indignities, but no official sanction, ’grace of God again, I think.
Re your opinion, “I hope Walker, Christie, Snyder, Kasich, Scott and the rest stick to their guns and bring the public sector employees into line with reality”: me too!
Over the last few years I have had my biases, as regards to liberals and unions (particularly public sector unions) validated. In the beginning unions served the vital function of bringing the oppressed individuals together to confront their exploiters. That was then. Unions across the board have lost their validity, they strive for mediocrity, top performers are pressured to conform. Unions protect the duds at the expense of those doing their jobs. Liberals are in charge of teaching the teachers and what do we have to show for it? As the Federal government increased its interference in the class room the outcome has been nothing short of disaster! There are a few things that the Federal government CAN do well, and they are primarily related to Foreign Policy. In WI the Barbarians are at the gates. It is time to de-unionize the public sector. It is time to get the Federal government out of the classroom. Most of all, it is past time to end the social engineering. It is time to put the pressure on deadbeat parents.
Mr Simon you nailed it.
I would just add that they were selfish and self serving from the start. In the 60′s you could get a deferment if you were in school. When in school they determined war was bad and wrong. They were not cowards hiding in collage from war, they were in fact righteous and good. Very convenient again.
Why can’t you be both a fascist and a reactionary? No necessary contradiction.
The fascist is only a type, the name changes, the type is constant, never missing from history. Whatever the name, there has always been and always will be scum who aren’t happy unless they are venting their aggression on Normal People. And what better, easier way to do then through da guvmint? The scum can hide behind it, let da guvmint do their dirty work for them, claim they are noble & caring, and hell, even call themselves “progressives”.
But of course they are still scum.
Might go farther back than the 60s. In some regions, some industries, even some families, unionism is an ancient and revered tradition. Practically a religion. It might not be irrelevant that Robert La Follette, one of the founders of Progressivism in America, was from Wisconsin. He served as Governor and U.S. Senator of that state, and was as fanatical a laborite as any of the protesters today.
Union members in the late-19th and early-20th century fought, bled, and died for “workers’ rights.” I tend to think they did me a favor, too – back then, when workers really were maltreated and robber barons acted like…well, robber barons. They helped change the paradigm of labor-management relations. Without their sacrifices, I might not have a five-day work week, good work environment, a decent salary, excellent benefits, and managers and owners who treat me like a contributor to their success rather than a replaceable peasant.
However, the world has turned. I’m not sure I buy the argument that without the continued existence of labor unions, working people will lose everything they’ve gained since the Gilded Age. I’m not sure I believe that today’s workers are powerless unless they organize. I’m not sure the unions and the “right” to collective bargaining, collective action, collective whatever you call it, needs to be protected by special status, special laws, etc. I’m not sure the world should bend over backward to make “the Union” happy in response to extortionate threats. (It used to be the companies that extorted workers – now it seems the shoe’s on the other foot.) I’m not sure the labor-management relationship model on which the labor movement is based adequately represents the situation today.
What mainly puzzles me is why I, a non-union worker, have ALWAYS received good pay, decent benefits, and workable retirement packages in EVERY grown-up job I’ve worked in, while my union equivalents always seem unsatisfied with everything they receive and are constantly pushing for more. Is it the industry I work in? I’m just an office monkey. Are things different for cops, firefighter, school teachers, auto workers, etc.? If so, are they different because of the nature of those, or are they different because of the way unions and their members relate to their employers?
Is the labor movement really necessary today, or is it just an old habit that’s hard for some people to give up?
Just a follow-up. I was looking up Progressivism on Wikipedia and came across another early Progressive, William Simon U’Ren of Oregon. One part of his bio caught my eye: He was disabled by asthma and couldn’t work for a while, and he was taken in by members of the Llewelling family.
According to Wikipedia, “His health was slowly restored at the Lewellings farm. The Lewellings were reformers (with one family member writing “good government being to us what religion is to most people”). U’ren was already a convert to progressive causes, especially the Single Tax proposed by Henry George.”
I think this might be the attitude you’re seeing among many of the protesters in Wisconsin, or at least their leaders. For them, union agitating is not just a practical matter – it’s an ancient tradition, practically a religion.
Humanity always have been ruled by a minority of elites. When the majority
revolted against them they became reactionary and violent. We are seeing it
in Wisconsin as well in Libya.
Think about the term “collective bargaining”.
Is everyone the same? No.
Do they all work the same? No.
Should they be treated the same? No.
As their employer (the taxpayer) if I can’t reward or punish based on merit, what do I have here?
Slavery: I am forced to work for somebody else, against my will. Where I don’t get to chose terms or conditions or even if they work at all! If they chose to revolt, my children’s education is forfeit, my house can burn, my personal safety compromised at the whim of the “collective.”
Public safety and education is no place for a Communistic system.
The Founding Fathers didn’t think so, so what happened? Think about who made these promises and for what quid-pro-quo? Here-today, gone-tomorrow politicians bribing for union votes. It was, and is an incestuous relationship.
I will bet the farm, there is not a single union job where multiple replacements aren’t already queued and waiting to assume those positions at privately competitive rates. Let them strike and fire the lot, like Reagan did with the air-traffic-controllers. With the legions of unemployed and under-employed, it is a win-win scenario.
Øbambi is like Reagan, like genital herpes is a longed-for gift.
I’m glad you mentioned Reagan and the ATCs. What actually happened when Reagan said “f-you” to PATCO and fired 11,000 of its members? Not a lot, as I recall. A scramble to fill the empty positions, certainly, but I don’t recall the nation falling to its knees or airliners falling from the skies. Of course, Reagan had the law on his side.
I’m wondering if it’s legal for the governor of Wisconsin to fire teachers who refuse to teach. And if he did, what would be the actual consequences for schools and pupils? Missed school days, obviously. A mad scramble for replacements, made more difficult if teachers unions in other states go on strike to demonstrate solidarity. Could get complicated. Is that a valid reason not to do it?
Public service unions should be outlawed; they are parasites on the taxpayer, setting up an elite set of employment/employees whose salaries, benefits and pensions are out of reach of any employee in the private sector.
Unions, in the early days, had a vital role to play in the PRIVATE sector of the economy. In this zone alone, the private sector, unions protected the worker against exploitative employers. But in the private sector, unions became irrelevant because the government took over their role, providing safety regulations, wage and employment regulations, fair hiring etc.
Unionized shops in the private sector, also had to be sensitive to the fact that their demands had to be based in REALITY. The real world of the private sector is based on competition in the market. So, if your union demands became too exorbitant, the company could go bankrupt. Or, move to another country. Private sector unions are a major cause of US industries moving to foreign nations.
This loss of members for the unions meant that they turned their sights to the public employee. Remember, unions are CORPORATIONS in themselves. Unions are focused on: money. Profit. But unions provide no goods or services. They don’t make anything, research or innovate any new product. They are parasites on the workers. They feed off the wages of the workers; that’s how unions amass their money. Their executives get salaries equivalent to any CEO of a manufacturing industry..i.e., of an industry that actually makes products for sale. Remember, the Corporate Union makes NOTHING.
The Corporate union doesn’t have to purchase raw supplies, industrial equipment, factory space, pay shipping costs. Nothing. It has its offices; that’s all. And, it doesn’t have to compete in the open market to sell its goods. It REQUIRES the worker to be a member – or – that individual can’t work. It then has those dues deducted automatically. The Corporate Union doesn’t have to do a thing to get millions every year.
When unions had bled the private sector dry, they moved into the public sector – and exploded in greed, money and power. That’s because, unlike the private sector, the ‘company’, that is, the government – is a monopoly. There’s no competition! So, the Corporate Union can make more and more and more demands. It will insist that the taxpayer ‘pay up’. Or else…the union will deprive the public of its services. No garbage picked up, no roads repaired, no bureaucratic services. Oh – and Obama’s gift to the unions of health care (1/6th of the US economy will be added to the Union coffers!!!)…means…no health care.
The Corporate Unions in the public service – operate without accountability. As a monopoly. What they have done – with their self-definition of the unionized employees as ‘workers’ (i.e., victims of The Boss)..is they have set up an Elite Set of Employees. These public employees are The Rich. These public service aren’t ‘workers’. They are The Rich.
The Public Service. Their wages and salaries are up to 25% higher than the private sector. Annual increases are two to three times that of the private sector. Their benefits and pensions are unknown in the private sector – and in many cases – paid, not by the employee, but are added benefits paid by the taxpayer! So their actual ‘income’ is far higher than shown on their tax slips! In addition – they are essentially tenured, jobs-for-life. No accountability, no firing…
In many states, to get that job, you must belong to the Corporate Union. Your dues are deducted automatically. The Corporate Unions are among the wealthiest corporations in America.
Then – these Corporate Unions moved to corrupt the political arena. They support Democrats and provide millions to elect their Democrat lackeys, who are then charged with ensuring that state contracts go, not to the private sector, but to a unionized contractor. Or, that the salaries etc will be increased. Or, these politicians are charged with ensuring that the state cannot touch benefits etc.
Get rid of them.
Great post. It contains a lot of information and analysis I haven’t seen anywhere else. Particularly the point that unions add no value; in fact they detract value by raising the cost of the service.
And since the government has no competition, compensation is automatically fair. The government IS the market for that particular job. Nobody is forced to take the job. If nobody takes it, the salary will have to be increased until amount is reached that people are willing to accept.
Now that the issue has come to the surface, I wonder how it can even be legal to force people to join a union, and then be forced to pay dues, which are then used to elect the officials who set the compensation for the union members, which the taxpayers must pay. If nothing else, it breaks the law of common-sense. The dues shouldn’t be allowed to be used for political purposes. Period. In addition, membership and the dues should, at a minimum, be voluntary.
Better yet, as you say, ban public service unions completely.
Exactly. The Corporate Union adds no value to the services provided by the government. Remember, the ‘rights’ of the worker, with regard to safety, discrimination, fairness, wage minimum – have all been taken over by the state. Therefore it’s a reasonable question to ask: What’s the function of a union anyway?
These Corporate Unions aren’t about the ‘worker’ – understood as a victim of a Greedy, Exploitative Boss. What absolute rubbish. These Corporate Unions are all about one thing only: Money. Money. Money.
And the public sector employees aren’t ‘workers’ anymore. They are the Wealthy, they are the Rich. And their view is that they are: ‘entitled to their entitlements’.
They exploit the public as a non-competitive monopoly. They exploit those employees who do not want to join the union – because is most states, you can’t work outside of that union. After all, the ONE GOAL of the Corporate Union is MONEY. They can’t let any employee work outside for they’d lose those dues.
(Sounds more like a Mafia Protection Racket).
The Corporate Unions rake in millions – and I mean millions in wealth every year. Think about it. The Corporate Union has NO overhead, NO costs. None. But it rakes in millions in forced dues every year. And..it doesn’t pay a thing to the workers! Nothing! Every dollar the workers get comes from the taxpayer! The Corporate Union just sits and counts its money! It doesn’t have to pay the employees a penny!
Ahh..but then, the Corporate Union does pay for something. It buys politicians. It ‘donates’ millions to their election campaigns and also, donates work-in-kind millions by making ‘its employees’ work on those election campaigns as volunteers.
And if the taxpayer balks? heh – they just go on strike. And hold the taxpayer hostage.
As I said – in the early, real early days of industrialization, the unions had a valid role. Then, they went rogue…and the result was that they overpriced the cost of the goods, and US industrialism moved out of America! How’s that for Unions-supporting-the-workers?
Then, they moved into the public sector which has no competition, sells nothing – and can hold the taxpayer hostage. They are destroying the economy with their exorbitant demands, their lack of service, their unaccountability, their indifference to the public.
Get.Rid.Of.Them.All.
It’s perfectly reasonable to describe those union members and other leftists who are throwing tantrums in Wisconsin as “reactionaries” and “selfish.” Selfishness and immaturity go hand-in-hand, manifested sometimes as whining or even raging inflexibility.
It’s another thing to apply psychological characteristics to “the left,” as a generalized ideological movement, including its dominant ideas and institutions, using terms like “reactionary” and “selfishness” as terms for pathological behavior. As Roger admits, phony and childish psychologizing of opposing movements/ideas was traditionally a tactic (rightly) associated with the left. I’d agree with Roger and many commenters on here that leftist individuals tend to be more selfish and reactionary than individuals on the right, but it’s impossible to prove and does not really advance the arguments; thus it’s not a fruitful line of analysis.
For example, it’s quite obvious that public sector unionization is a corrupting force, but it’s not so clear that individual public service workers are by nature any less scrupulous than other people. The structural, philosophical, etc. flaws of “progressive”/liberal orthodoxy are so widespread that it’s almost a waste of time and intellectual energy/talents to sit around playing coach therapist for inanimate objects. Yeah, I get the whole reverse Alinsky tactics – there is something to that – but the Roger Simons of the right should be doing heavier lifting.
Your example is poor: good, well intentioned people supporting a corrupt system at the expense of others are, by evidence of what they are doing, not good well intentioned people. They are either liars, indoctrinated to believe a lie or stupid.
Lhogan, I’m with you in spirit. However, in my jurisdiction, I have no choice but to be part of the union. Fighting it would be a full time, “I Lose” proposition: what time or opportunity would be left for me to TEACH, which is my profession (and I’m very good at it)?
It’s a conundrum, all right.
I understand being trapped in a corrupt system of someone else’s making but I don’t understand supporting and even advocating for it. If I were a teacher in Wisconsin I would be welcoming the opportunity to rid the system of corruption. Of course I would never be a teacher in Wisconsin; I would never join a corrupt union.
The thing is, one becomes a teacher first—and then is coerced into joining the union. (When I became a teacher, many decades ago, I knew nothing at all about union membership!) Of course, kids today are steeped in leftism, by the school system, and so most younger teachers are, by osmosis, pro-union. (Even in my day, by the grace of God, I believe, as soon as I found out about the union’s leftie nonsense, I knew I was a political opponent. But teaching is my profession, I’m VERY good at it, and I had/have a family to raise/maintain, as our main wage earner. This issue is not, perhaps, as simple as you posit. Indeed, if one could only work, in good conscience, as you suggest, in institutions that are perfect, we’d all be out of a job!)
I’m altogether on Scott Walker’s side, as are, I hope, many of the majority of teachers, who stayed on the job. Will they speak up? I doubt it, and I don’t blame them: the consequences of non-compliance can be very unpleasant. (As I said in another response, I didn’t receive any serious consequences for not going on strike the last time I was supposed to. However, I didn’t crusade on my non-participation either. I stayed home and then, after the strike, just got on with the job. My colleagues treated me with the courtesy and respect I’d had before.)
Actually, the union’s sort of out of sight, out of mind for most teachers: there are union aficionados—socialist toadies—who get really involved, but most teachers just do their job. The teaching environment’s really like a gulag: political opinions are held very close and there’s little sharing. (Like rabbits, teachers know the hawks are watching.) Ironically, most boards are quite thoroughly left-wing and share the union’s progressive goals (and so, sort of deserve what they get): there’s a lot of fear among teachers about telling how one really feels about politically sensitive issues. Isn’t that just the ticket for those “educating” the next generation? It’s a mess.
Yes, it is selfish greed.
But it is hate too.
They are not incompatible, Mr. Simon. In fact, I venture to say they are bosom buddies.
True. And in a way, it’s a good sign. Before WWI, Americans were highly distrustful of large standing armies and hated the diea of compulsory military service. Drafts were considered emergency measures. Wilson instituted the draft for WWI but it ended in 1918. The military set up a new, more efficient draft system after WWI but didn’t use it until it was needed for WWII. Only during the Cold War did we try to use a permanent, peacetime draft as a means both of topping off manpower and of “persuading” men to volunteer. The Vietnam War marked the failure of that experiment. Good thing, too, because as you say, volunteers make much better soldiers than conscripts. We need smart, motivated people in the service – not generic peasant cannon fodder. And again, compulsory service has NEVER been the American way. Nor should it ever be.
Sorry – that was supposed to be a reply to Jeannette @7:45 am above. System’s playing up a bit…
“Liberalism has become a mask for greed in our culture — a way of hiding excessive selfishness from others and, importantly, from the self.”
They can’t handle the truth…project it on the Bankers and the Doctors etc. but not them…they just want their due. Meanwhile many of the rest of us have been subjected to layoffs, career changes etc. for two-three decades.
I’m a Wisconsin state employee. Nevertheless, I support banning public employee unions. When things get tight, you have the choice not to go to the movies or restaurants. You don’t have the choice to scale back on government. You don’t get to say “I’ll do with fewer speed traps and reporting requirements.”
Quiz: Name the State famous for its role in the Progressive Movement. A: Wisconsin. Q. Name the three great reforms of the Progressive era. A: Referendum, Recall, and Initiative. Q: Name a State that does NOT have the voter initiative. A: Wisconsin. Ironic, eh?
One of the things that has always disturbed me about the Left in general is the notion that history always works but one way–their way. The idea that one of their cherished goals could be rolled back often sets them into a fit of rage.
In California the public sector unions were generally able to defeat the Governator’s agenda. In Wisconsin the public sector unions thought they could repeat that action. Problem was that circumstances and public attitudes were different (or had changed).
In California, there was not really the overarching economic crisis that afflicts everywhere now. The Governator could gather precious little support for his agenda and probably made some noises but otherwise knuckled under.
In Wisconsin, there was an enduring economic crisis, many examples of very generous compensation, and growing concern over the burden of government and the current and future cost of government compensation (and pensions).
Circumstances have changed. There was precious little reason to fight over compensations and pensions when economic times were good. Now, when times have soured, the fights over compensation and pensions will be much more bitter as we’ve seen.
Read this union sign:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/weigel/archive/2011/02/22/madison-wisconsin.aspx
It says – “No-one (not even the Koch Brothers) is allowed to amass excessive wealth while others lack basic necessities”. It’s from the Catholic School Teachers.
Now wait a minute. Exactly WHO is ‘amassing excessive wealth”? It’s the unionized ‘workers’ – with their excessive salaries, their excessive benefits and pensions – all paid by the taxpayer..who lacks those salaries, those annual wage increases that are two-three times that of the private sector. Who lacks those benefits and pensions. Who lacks that no-risk job for the public service can NEVER be fired.
So- who has ‘excessive wealth’? Hmmm?
What about #21- and the tale of the Union leader who said that elderly people should take out a line of credit or reverse mortgage on their homes, to pay for the increased costs of the unionized public sector. Who has excessive wealth? Who is trying to impoverish and harm others?
Get.Rid.Of.All.Public.Unions.
Teachers have excessive salaries? Says who? Hannity? Do you actually have any idea what teachers make? Why do I have the sneaking suspicion that you are advancd in age and haven’t had a kid in any public school system since the 70s and don’t have any idea what teachers actually make beyond what you hear from Limbaugh and Fox?
Unions have their benefits because they fought for them. Private sector workers don’t have those same benefits because they don’t fight for them. Your argument seems to be that because private sector workers are wimps who don’t stand up for themselves in the face of corporate power, public unions who have fought corporate power to win those benefits ought to give those things up simply because its “not fair” that private workers don’t also recieve those same benefits?
That sounds very wimpy to me. Sounds like someone is just angry that he doesn’t have what it takes to fight for better benefits. Sounds like someone is content to eat scraps and too meek to stand up and say “My labor is who I am and I have a God-given right to negotiate the value of my own labor.”
I get rather tired of the ‘polite’ labels given to social and political ideologies, their leaderships and the minions of their lower and rear ranks.
Liberals by definition should represent the geopolitical discourse of the anarchist libertarians. Regardless, LIBERAL’S as most define liberalism today, are…. socialist and communist AMERICAN CITIZENS….PERIOD!
REACTIONARIES? Reactionary in the context of the topic is simply revolutionaries as in combatants with a mission of overthrowing the existing social values and governance structure. Enemies of the Traditional State!
CITIZEN ENEMIES. Todays numbers are appalling! They probably actually represent 9:1 and most don’t even know (or will admit) they are enemies of the Traditional America. When tough sacrifices are needed and initiated for the greater good of Traditional America’s survival, we get to see who they are.
When an attempt is made to ask the socialist labor unions to sacrifice and give up their power we see our neighbors of all political stripes hit the streets in protest. When we attempt to redirect the unsustainable costs of social programs to include social security, Medicare, Medicaid, we see them rise up in protest. When we have to sacrifice the cost of federal education support across American communities we see them rise up in dissent. When we hear of the vast federal subsidies to industries and local communities governments being mentioned for cuts, we see them rise up in dissent.
These are the generations sadly [spawned by] what history proclaims as America’s Greatest Generation. Generations that allowed themselves to become indoctrinated by the enemy…the “liberal’s” as they are labeled today. Many in total denial that they are the ‘minions’ of the enemy….until of course, one of their own particular federal entitlements are being offered up for sacrifice.
So, I would submit that folks should reconsider when they are casting about the term ‘Liberal’ as its being used in today’s context. Few American citizens and their communities have rejected the socialist reconstruction revolution of several decades and are happily reliant upon the unsustainable benefits they do or plan to receive.
A sad time in the history of Traditional America!
Lets start with the premise that 61% of US adults oppose limits on union bargaining. http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-02-22-poll-public-unions-wisconsin_N.htm . Next, lets move to the fact that the ability of Wisconsin public employees to collectively bargain has been the law for around 50 years. So, because people do not want their collective bargaining rights striped away under the guise of a short term budget fix they are reactionaries. Also, the is nothing to substantiate that Wisconsin people want the collective bargaining rights removed. Also, if everyone has to take a hit for the collective good, why was it only the unions that apposed walker that are being targeted????? Any answers?
I have a problem with that statistic of 61%. The reason is that I strongly suspect that most people haven’t thought through ‘what is a union’ and ‘when and why do we need to carry out collective bargaining’.
I think that the majority of people automatically see these two questions in terms of The Exploiter-and-The-Exploited. That is, they have a turn of the century Charles Dickens image of the hapless, helpless worker enslaved by the rapacious, greedy Big Boss Man.
The fact that this is the image of old movies and has nothing to do with what the modern union has become – I suspect that most people haven’t updated their image of ‘what is a union’.
Here’s some data from Michelle Malkin’s site:
First – just think – the NEA (National Education Association) took in 13 million in dues in 2009-10. That’s right. One year. Remember, unions don’t make any product; they don’t provide any service. They just accumulate wealth.
Here’s how the Ohio Teacher’s Union used some of its dues for 2009. One year.
$22,771,159 paid to union officers and staff — equal to $176.71 per member
* 143 union employees paid more than $70,000
* 117 union employees paid more than $100,000
* 12 union employees paid more than $150,000
* Executive Director Larry Wicks paid $208,469
* Executive Director Dennis Reardon paid $202,997
* $8,151,341 spent on benefits — less than 36% of the amount disbursed to union officers and staff.
So – let me get this straight. The Ohio taxpayer paid its teachers; the Ohio Teacher’s Union took dues from the teachers. I don’t know the full amount. But, they used this money from the taxpayer – to hire a whole host of ‘union employees’. All of this money, both primary and secondary, comes originally from the taxpayer. The taxpayer is supporting not only teachers but also an enormous mass of union employees.
Now – what does the taxpayer get out of this? Are the teachers accountable? Is their job – in the majority – producing top level results?
And – why should the taxpayer fund all those unionites? What are they getting out of them?
Equally I’d have to say that why should the teachers hand over money to the unions – to hire all those people? Do the teachers get anything? Well, yes, they get all those benefits and pensions and high salaries. But remember, the real reason for the union’s actions – is – money. For the unions.
Again, I think that most people haven’t moved out of the Charles Dickens image of a factory – and don’t understand that modern unions have NOTHING to do with the welfare of the worker but are themselves, massive Corporations that are parasitic on everyone.
Get.Rid.Of.Them.
Public service unions bargain with their employers, the taxpayers, except that the taxpayers aren’t at the table; intermediaries dependent on union contributions (elected officials) are at the table, the union representatives who “serve” as long as they can achieve huge increases are, and sometimes, 3rd parties whose priimary life work is in behalf of unions are; but the taxpayers are never at the table. Not only not at the table, but the results will be hidden from the taxpayer by any means possible.
So the poll should ask: do you approve of your employees giving themselves raises that you do not approve of and then doing evrything possible to hide the raises from you.
Then lets see what the poll says.
Heh – nice question. I’d add another:
Do you think that, without being consulted, you should be required to finance the increased salaries and benefits that your employees have given themselves?
As you point out, the negotiations are a corrupt incestuous affair of union executives (funded by the taxpayer) talking to government executive (funded by the taxpayer). The taxpayer who is the de jure Employer is never consulted, never advised – and yet – is expected to hand over the money to these two extortionists.
Again – I fail to see why unions are necessary in our modern era. They have nothing to do with employee safety, basic rights, discrimination etc etc. So, why do they exist? They are parasitic, they extort – and I mean the word – millions from both the employees and the taxpayers. They use these millions to hire themselves at Rich Man’s Wages/Benefits – and – to move into political alignment where they effectively corrupt the political process.
Would someone please explain to me: why do we need public service unions?
ETAB….Unions are the exact replica of the mafia’s! In fact, the nations second generation unions were the mafia’s and remain a tenant of the mafia’s today. Likewise, the unions are member tenants of the many domestic and international socialist parties. The unions have been one of the most important and successful implementation arms of the socialists revolution here in America. They try to establish and broaden the labor ‘collective’ while the central socialists work on broadening the social collective.
The unions are socialist mafia thugs with the socialist goal of destroying America’s free enterprise capitalism!
I know this assessment is not as fancy written as you would have it but…its bottom line accurate.
Look who is crying, that we have to slow down and talk about these budget problems in Wisconsin and Ohio the democrats! Where the he-l were the democrats when they forced obama care down our throats on Christmas Eve. The Republicans asked for time to talk things over and all they got from obama is John ,the election is over and I won. Pay backs are a bitch! At least the Republicans did not run away, they sat there and took their medicine.The Democrats ran away but are still sucking the citizens money teet!
Democracy functions on the axiom that the losers of a democratic election will abide by the outcome. Can a democratic republic survive if a sizable minority of its citizens refuses to abide by the results of a free and fair election?
Are Democrat legislators and government employees engaging in protests… or rebellion?
I am reminded that our last American insurrection was also instigated by the Democrat Party. Having lost the election, they chose rebellion, and even after losing a war the Democrats gave us three generations of lynchings, Klu Klux Klan, Jim Crow and Bull Conner.
There is a darkness at the heart of the Democrat Party that seems to go beyond even reactionary fascism.
a better comparison is that they are Luddites, the textile workers who with the liberals of their day opposed the introduction of machines to replace hand looms.
A strong union presence keeps you from firing them, and their ties with big gov’t democrats encourages more regulations hence more work for paper pushers who regulate.
Yet in private industry, many of these paper pushing jobs are being lost to computers or outsourced to Makati or Bangalore, where wages are lower and people work harder.
Even teachers can be replaced, by computer programs and by YOUTUBE (e.g. the Khan academy). In rural Korea, English is being taught by robot teachers where the actual teacher is in Manila
In private industry the teachers who couldn’t teach would be fired and replaced. With many people out of work, they could find second career folks if the union didn’t insist on standards (e.g. “education courses”) that make it hard for them to get jobs. And, of course, you can hire teachers from overseas who will work for the “pittance” that the Wisconsin union is decrying.
In other words, the unions are fighting for the right to keep things the same, in the face of technology and globalization.
What’s wrong with this picture?
We have Congressmen and government workers striking against their employers, and AWOL from their assigned duties.
Government jobs have, historically, been life time positions; What’s the union for? (As we can plainly see, they are there for agitation, nothing more).
If people are not fired for this blatant display of mutiny, then America is nothing but a myth. It’s a free for all. You can go out and murder that neighbor of yours that has been a thorn in your side for so many years. And get off as easy as Charlie Rangel.
(re-posted from another article…)
The Big Picture…
1. Public union members are represented twice, once at the bargaining table, and once as voters. Meanwhile, taxpayers only get one man one vote; thus public unions are undemocratic at the outset.
2. The government is already required to follow all OSHA, EPA, etc. workplace regulations; therefore public unions have no reason to exist for any such related potential violations.
3. Government does not exist to make a profit, therefore there are no profits to be shared with workers. The only source of money is taxpayers’ money, which by definition is to be spent sparingly, effectively, and efficiently.
4. The very politicians who are “negotiating” with the public unions are most often the ones who have been financed by those same unions.
5. There is no one at the bargaining table who actually has any stake in decreasing costs; thus the taxpayer has effectively no representation, and “bargaining” is a farce at the outset. There is no realistic way (and certainly no inherently repeatable way) to counteract unions’ ever greedier demands and insatiable appetite for more, especially including promises made for future benefits.
6. Since public unions are formulated on the shakiest of theoretical grounds, their members become wildly reactive when confronted and quickly revert to thuggery, i.e., corruption is intrinsic, endemic, and systemic.
7. If an individual government worker does well, then that person should be rewarded individually. However, productivity is anathema to government bureaucracies as a whole, such that public unions have no supporting productivity data and therefore no related justification to exist as a bargaining entity for any group of employees.
Public unions are unjustifiable on any logical, moral, democratic basis; they should be eliminated and never again allowed to see the light of day.
People, please understand something… it is very late in the day to try to save our Republic. At its core, the left consists of total lawlessness and immorality; there is no way to reason with their pursuit of raw power, and any attempt to compromise simply means that the rest of us lose again, only at a slower pace. We have very few options open. Where we have any political advantage such as Wisconsin, we need to push it to the limit (so far, I believe the governor has been reticent, and much more could be done by him and the state legislature). Where we don’t have such an advantage, we must now use tools of organized civil disobedience (e.g., withhold payment into an escrow account of taxes going to schools), nullification (ignore any court order from any judge who interprets a “living Constitution”), and if necessary, secession at the state level. No more playing defense… we need a vast organized right-wing strategy and tactics of offense, and we need it now!
The Founding Fathers, Declaration of Independence: “…we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor…”. Should we now in 2011 do any less?
Big-government politicians “negotiating” with public employee unions over wages and benefits produces about the same level of responsibility in result as you might expect if Wally were given a free hand to “negotiate” with The Beaver over how much allowance The Beav should get from Mr. and Mrs. Cleaver.
Wally: Mom and Dad told me I had to be responsible but fair.
Beaver: Wally, I’ll cut you in for 30 percent of whatever increase I get.
Wally: That sounds fair. How much should we take ‘em for?
Some negotiation.
OPM.
This is not about public employee greed; they already have agreed to the pay cuts etc. but the Governor, who falsely says this is about the budget, is not satisfied with these concessions; he wants to take away collective bargaining rights as a way to take away power from the unions. The Koch brothers plan to take advantage of the Supreme court gift (citizens united ruling) and deny the same for unions, thus giving them ultimate political power.
It is to the advantage of the ruling class to pit us against each other while they manipulate the action from behind the scenes. (They also spearheaded the Tea party)
They fear we will truly awaken to the reality that we (the middle and lower classes) have the power, so they divide us behind artificial social, race, and economic issues to prevent us from banding together to fight our common enemy; the autocracy that rules our nation, the corporations they represent, and the politicians they have purchased.
So you too here are playing your part when you write “We see this in the billionaire extremes of a George Soros and a John Kerry, but also now in the demonstrators in the streets of Madison. Many are suffering economically in our country. Huge numbers are unemployed. But when asked to pull together for the good of the mean, the liberals, the ones who pay the greatest lip service to equality, say NO.”
Yeah, like these suffering people matter to the conservatives, who care more about the economic well being of the top 1% (extended Bush tax cuts adding $1 trillion to the debt)
And that quoted statement is so wrong, because, again, they have accepted the pay cuts and forced unpaid furlough days, it is their collective bargaining rights (which have no current effect on the budget) that Gov. Walker wants and they refuse to surrender.
Funny how you DON’T ‘see this’ in a Rupert Murdoch or the Koch brothers.
Hey Dan – move out of the world-of-words and into reality.
What ‘Ruling Class’? Hmm? Are you back in the 18th century? Or are you referring to the Public Service Employees as the Ruling Class? Now, that’s makes sense! After all, these people have:
Salaries far above those in the private sector; wage increases of two to three times that of the private sector; benefits and pensions outside of taxation and at levels unavailable to the private sector. Jobs-for-life. No accountability; can’t be fired; automatic raises and promotions. Oh – and it’s all paid by the private sector – we of the lower middle classes who can’t aspire to their lifestyle. They are indeed an Elite. A Ruling Class. And yes, they are greedy. How so?
Well, apart from their incomes and benefits – all unattainable by we in the private sector which cannot afford such extremes – these Ruling Class Employees hold the public hostage. For more. And more. How? They have a monopoly on their services! If we taxpayers refuse to give in to their relentless greed – they go on strike! And we have no alternative to them!
Their union? What good is a union? After all, the old functions of a union have been taken over by the govt: wages, safety on the job, discrimination etc. So – what’s the function of a union? The union is there, itself, based in greed. The union wants – like these Elite Ruling Class Employees..more and more from the taxpayer. The union rakes in millions every year in dues. And it buys out the politicians. Could you explain why you support this?
Oh – and do you know why Walker doesn’t want those ‘collective bargaining rights’ (and they aren’t a ‘right’)? Because those greedy unionists and that Ruling Class Employees will ‘negotiate’ to increase the wages…to make up for the fact that the Ruling Class Employees will have to..gasp…actually pay for part of their own pensions. Rather than having the taxpayer pay for it all. Could you explain why you support this elite class getting more and more from us?
Could you explain why there should be a Ruling Class of highly paid employees – funded by the rest of us – protected and preserved in their ‘jobs’…while the rest of the population doesn’t have such a lifestyle? Could you explain your support for this aristocracy?
We, the taxpayer – don’t have any power to deal with these Ruling Class Employees. They have a monopoly on services; they’ve bought out the Democratic politicians; their ‘negotiations’ are between two ‘sides’…heh..the taxpayer-funded union and the taxpayer-funded government…BUT WE, the taxpayer – are absent from these negotiations! We pay BOTH their salaries – and we aren’t at the table!!! Could you explain the justice in this set-up?
Oh – and thanks in advance. I’m sure you’ll be able to explain. Gosh, I sure can’t.
It hasn’t been discussed on any web sites I’ve visited, but what kind of perks and salaries and benefits do governors, politicians, and lawmakers get. E.g., what is the salary of the Wisconsin governor, the lieutenant governor and other state officials? What are their benefits – pension, health care and do they retain any lasting benefits once they leave office?
Just wondering, and suggesting that ‘public workers’ includes government officials as well as teachers and other state employees.
What’s Governor Walker giving of the perks he has as a governor? Is he sharing in the ‘restructuring?”
I should think Governor Walker would want to be a step or two above our privileged and haughty President who wallows in the luxury of excess provided by his esteemed office.
Your attempt to set up some kind of quid pro quo between the administration and public service benefits is invalid.
First, an administrator cannot be part of a union. The civil service, the public employees – are part of a union. The argument we are having is on the union’s establishment of an elite work-force, the public service, whose members receive salaries, benefits and pensions far out of line with those available in the private sector – which pays for them.
And, since the public service is a monopoly and non-competitive, its work is unaccountable, can’t be evaluated, and therefore, holds the public hostage to its demands. Then, the union, which is a parastic corporation on the public employment, rakes in millions in dues each year – and corrupts the political process. The union has no function in itself for its original function 100 years ago, has long been taken over by the state.
The administrator does not have a job-for-life but is elected. And unelected. That is, unlike the public employee, he is accountable and dispensable.
I appreciate your response, and your points are valid, but off the focus of my questions.
I simply asked if the government officials – the governor, lieutenant governor, his appointees, etc. – are going to participate in the reduction of the states’ debt by showing good faith by redefining their own salaries, benefits, etc. I’m not talking union or non-union.
I realize from the animus of your response that you are for breaking unions, and I would suspect eliminating them all together, but then you obviously think that 100 years ago they served a useful function. And you fail to appreciate that not all employees of states are covered by civil service laws, only at the federal level in most cases.
While I agree that unions have overstepped all bounds of decency in demands and attitude, I also know from experience that they can serve and have served a necessary function. Unions came into being for real reasons that touched a number of people or otherwise they would not have succeeded to the point they did until the middle of the last century. That they are in many ways now corrupt does not diminish their usefulness in the past.
I personally have no use for unions, but I cannot pretend that in many cases that they have not helped the innocent from unfair practices, but at the same time protected the guilty.
I’m afraid I don’t see the point of your response, since you and I seem to agree on the original beneficial function of unions – and their current irrelevance and even, corruption of use.
Unions, in my view, both in the private and public sector, serve no function in the modern era. They are parasitic on the employee and in the case of public unions, parasitic on the taxpayer.
The only thing different between the modern ear and the past is that you are living it your utopia today. Men have not changed, business has not changed, government has not changed, only the year.
I suppose you would favor a return to the patronage system of the past, for examaple, or is the modern era so much more enlightened than past eras that such a thing cannot and will not happen again? You are naive, my friend, if you think it won’t. Hell, sir, I live in Illinois, I know better.
Hidebound attitudes like yours are the reason we have to constantly repeat history because you’re so sure of your positions that you cannot see the fallacies in them.
Break the unions? Sure; before they break us.
Negotiate with that!
How about “retrogressive irrationalists?” It works for me.
“Liberalism has become a mask for greed in our culture — a way of hiding excessive selfishness from others and, importantly, from the self. It’s a deflection, really.”
By reflex, liberals (er, “progressives”) always see socialism as the answer to every problem they think that government should solve. But socialism is the fraudulent requirement that we each live at the expense of everyone else, a requirement that must be enforced by government coercion and compulsion. Those familiar with the Ten Commandments will see how this violates the ones that forbid lies, coveting and theft. Secular moralists who were all for peace when Bush wanted to force Iraq enjoy democracy should see how morally bankrupt it is to attempt to bring about a utopia that forbids anyone to escape and coerces everyone in its domain by the credible threat of using armed tax agents.
There are only two ways for a society to have economic growth by which it can afford the things it needs and wants: it can either earn those things via mutual free exchange, or it can secure them by theft and predation. Socialism moves in the direction of forbidding free exchange and thus must resort to predation to acquire the funds for its programs. Needless to say this either involves theft by telling lies or theft by force. Either way, socialism must destroy wealth in order to acquire wealth.
This is the road that the left has chosen. They love to scold us about “sustainability”, yet not a single one of their economic plans is sustainable. The sooner we return to being a free people with free markets, the better and more prosperous our lives will be. Otherwise, we trod the road to serfdom.
Leftists always have the mentality that the rules they gleefully apply to others never apply to them. Redistributing the wealth is great, but dont you dare cut my union benefits.
Spot on!!!
This is why when you’re the guest of a staunch “liberal” you will often find yourself thrown out of the house (or cabin as in my case) if you attempt to debate these issues, as has happened to me. I never even raised my voice or stooped to profanity, all I was guilty of was logically defending my points and calling her on her hyperbole. Once she realized she was losing the debate, she became enraged and threw me out, at which time I calmly walked around and enjoyed a good cigar, as I had nowhere else to go. She eventually came out about an hour later and apologized for tossing me out, but never conceded my argument and the debate was completely dropped. The moral of the story for me is that modern “liberalism/progressivism is indeed a cult or ‘religion’ to these people, and it must stand without question because it is simply true, no matter how inconvenient the facts, which is why people like me must be censored. But at least another guest at the cabin had the decency to come out and inform me that he thought I was right in both my argument and bearing, but were afraid of agreeing with me in front of our hostess.
We’re a bunch of volunteers and opening a new scheme in our community. Your web site offered us with helpful information to paintings on. You have done a formidable task and our whole neighborhood will likely be thankful to you.