I’ve spent 3 hours on-line, researching all sides, and am out of time again for today. I’ll work on this tomorrow. Sorry for the delay, but I think you’d agree that this is better to get right than to get timely.

Yet, …

“However, I will pose that there are certain situations, and this is the big problem today, where the child, if born, is luckily to incur a life of predictable suffering and all to often, inflict one on theirs; thus the cycle perpetuates, and grows… as the community declines.”

I don’t what to do, laugh or cry.

Abortion is bad enough but abortion for birth-control is just beyond sick.

It’s not only poor people that get abortions. Supposed ‘well-educated’ people do too. That’s doubly sick.

For the poor, welfare sure as heck hasn’t helped and nor has public education. Maybe ‘abortion’ has become far too ‘acceptable’ for many.

Killing abortion doctors (even the late-term ones) is stupid though because murdering a murderer is for the law and not a vigilante, there will be another abortion doctor to take his/her place anyhow so people have to change the laws or change people’s minds and not go around trying to take law into their own hands.

P.S. I’m fairly certain you can’t ‘teach’ someone to be gay.

- Teaching temperance to a Christian is infinitely more likely than UN-teaching gay to a gay.

the truth has a ring doesn’t it…

“Why is abortion so heinous? Because it is human sacrifice, to the idols of money and convenience. Why is this a big deal to society? Besides the obvious fruits, which are violence, debt, and sexual deviancy,”

First, earlier you expressed desire for laws against sodomy. How do you enforce that? Ineffective, unenforceable and inconsistent laws have a whole lot to do with where we are today… have we not grown out of that?

The threat of persecution is also destructive to a sociery. I am wondering why does no one just propose what is desired… to expel them (to an institution?)… but you won’t. You won’t because everyone knows how the KKK approach would turn out. So now you sit and throw stones… and pout.

- I have not directly taken up the issue of abortion yet… and will not here [so I thought]. I could never fully approve, for human potential is unbounded, but can see situations where I would not stand in their way, nor harass them. What the quote says is true, I guess, on the tippy-toe extreme end of the sliding scale – not that it is an effect argument, as surely a large Large majority do not see it from anywhere near that… angle. However, I will pose that there are certain situations, and this is the big problem today, where the child, if born, is luckily to incur a life of predictable suffering and all to often, inflict one on theirs; thus the cycle perpetuates, and grows… as the community declines.

Unless you are gonna go into those communities and give parenting classes, or impose castration, then I find it awfully convenient for you to dictate from far away atop your altar. Either way they have sinned. For some, they see it as the only way to salvage what they are able to give to their MANY other children, who of course all suffer the more there are. And seeing what I’ve seen I won’t say its impossible, so I don’t see how I could judge. (are we gonna go into those communities? why not? are they are in dire need of charity?…. can’t yet, something else has to happen first. Alas, they have closed their circle and the scapegoating prevents any penetration. (in an odd coincidence, I have before posed to myself if it is so that: “When I society can not explain its problems through reason, it first resorts to scapegoating, and then sacrifice” – though here sacrifice is off topic…well, for most.)

Abortion is horrible and a sin against God. The guilt must be unbearable. Its purveyance surely degrades society. But it does not have a monopoly. I am willing to let them suffer there choice and their ‘day before God’. And as I think harder about it now, would you not agree that problem is not so much the pennatent man. He would suffer greatly, so you must be somewhat amenable to that. Maybe the problem is the values ingrained in those who you imagine in this act… maybe its just the lack of values instilled by their parents? maybe they just don’t feel guilty about anything?

Does this (extreme, you say) description not sound at all like banning hand-guns to stop violent crime, because I can sure see how it would to everyone else… remember their ‘delusion’.

- Is social conservatism not Totalitarianism by another name?

If not, where does it have give? Because Mother Liberty could use a pinch about now. Are we not all just mystified by Islams inability to show any temperance whatsoever? Temperance, yes that is a good word. That is what this line of thinking lacks. It is also ironic as I always saw temperance a fruit of the man who walks with Jesus. At the end of the day, can you not be content with your own salvation? Just vote no against it in your state if it comes up. If it passes and you don’t move, I promise that God won’t mark it against you. Go ask your pastor.

And if you happen to pass a clinic, assuming you haven’t moved away, and see a young women walking in or out… unless you have the money she needs or the home for the child, or the magic to get her clean, then maybe you could just look on her with compassion, maybe even a “God still loves you”, as she is likely to suffer so very dearly the rest of her life. And if not then pitty her parents… for they will require the Lord’s. There is one particular passage that comes to mind, to me of enigmatic solace, and you might try reflecting on it, if anger and hate enter your heart. Not sure what exact wording is, it didn’t happen to end up in the bible or was changed, but it is something to the effect of:

“Bless-ed are children… for from the Lord they came, and to him they shall return.”

Point 2. I point out what is being taught to beginning medical students, but that is ignored.

Point 3. In conjunction with Point 2, it is assumed I am working from a religious perspective even though I don’t bring up religion in regards to abortion or when human life begins.

Point 4. Human life is recognized by science, human embryology, as beginning with fertilization. Even you assert as much. What you do, however, is devalue what that human life is. You deny it humanity and turn it into something akin to a skin cell. It is not. Embryos are full human beings that are at an early stage of development. When, pray tell, does this entity become a human being? Birth? When air hits the lungs and we take are first breath? When we implant? During the quickening? When? You haven’t answered that and I doubt you will be able to cogently.

“Human development is a continuous process that begins when an oocyte (ovum) from a female is fertilized by a sperm (spermatozoon) from a male.

…

Although most development changes occur during the embryonic and fetal periods, important changes occur during later periods of development: infancy, childhood, adolescence, and early adulthood.

…

Although it is customary to divide human development into prenatal (before birth) and postnatal (after birth) periods, birth is merely a dramatic event during development resulting in changed environment.”

- “The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology”, 7th Edition, 2003, Keith Moore and T.V.M. Persuad

…

“In this text, we begin our description of the developing human with the formation and differentiation of the male and female sex cells or gametes, which will unite at fertilization to initiate the embryonic development of a new individual”

- “Human Embyology”, 2001, William J. Larsen

I am not sure how much more clearer it can be stated.