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	<title>Comments on: Tortured by Pelosi</title>
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	<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2009/04/24/tortured-by-pelosi/</link>
	<description>The blog of the mystery writer, screenwriter and CEO of Pajamas Media</description>
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		<title>By: ray_g</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2009/04/24/tortured-by-pelosi/#comment-127994</link>
		<dc:creator>ray_g</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 17:50:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/?p=5341#comment-127994</guid>
		<description>&quot;I think it’s vital to our democracy to ask the question whether waterboarding is torture and whether the United States should torture suspected terrorists.&quot;

I agree, but it is a big jump from that to prosecuting those whose opinion, at the time, differed from what we might now conclude. 

We now look back at the Nuremberg trials as an unalloyed good, but at the time there was a lot of concern that it would have the appearance of just another case of the winners prosecuting the losers. I think that is a legitimate concern with these proposed prosecutions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I think it’s vital to our democracy to ask the question whether waterboarding is torture and whether the United States should torture suspected terrorists.&#8221;</p>
<p>I agree, but it is a big jump from that to prosecuting those whose opinion, at the time, differed from what we might now conclude. </p>
<p>We now look back at the Nuremberg trials as an unalloyed good, but at the time there was a lot of concern that it would have the appearance of just another case of the winners prosecuting the losers. I think that is a legitimate concern with these proposed prosecutions.</p>
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		<title>By: clear53</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2009/04/24/tortured-by-pelosi/#comment-127909</link>
		<dc:creator>clear53</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Apr 2009 17:12:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/?p=5341#comment-127909</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t get fooled by the good cop/bad cop.

There is no space between Obama, Pelosi and the Dems on this subject (or any other, for that matter).

Obama the narcissist is pretending to be above the fray simply to keep his poll ratings high.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t get fooled by the good cop/bad cop.</p>
<p>There is no space between Obama, Pelosi and the Dems on this subject (or any other, for that matter).</p>
<p>Obama the narcissist is pretending to be above the fray simply to keep his poll ratings high.</p>
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		<title>By: njcommuter</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2009/04/24/tortured-by-pelosi/#comment-127908</link>
		<dc:creator>njcommuter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Apr 2009 16:59:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/?p=5341#comment-127908</guid>
		<description>The frustrating thing is that the Left (including the Dems) has been accusing the GOP and the Right in general of lying for so long that people will assume that the accusations of Pelosi&#039;s lying will be treated as an empty counter-move.

The MSM makes it impossible to keep focus on any reality; all one can follow is their Narrative.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The frustrating thing is that the Left (including the Dems) has been accusing the GOP and the Right in general of lying for so long that people will assume that the accusations of Pelosi&#8217;s lying will be treated as an empty counter-move.</p>
<p>The MSM makes it impossible to keep focus on any reality; all one can follow is their Narrative.</p>
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		<title>By: qrstuv</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2009/04/24/tortured-by-pelosi/#comment-127886</link>
		<dc:creator>qrstuv</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Apr 2009 01:41:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/?p=5341#comment-127886</guid>
		<description>&quot;I think it’s vital to our democracy to ask the question whether waterboarding is torture and whether the United States should torture suspected terrorists.&quot;

While we&#039;re on the subject, I think it&#039;s vital to our democracy to ask why the media and the Democrats, to this day, are virtually silent on the Clinton extraordinary rendition program. Why do Democrats get a free pass on something that is demonstrably far worse than waterboarding? Is it good for our democracy that the media are complicit in this double standard? Is it healthy for us that the media are apparently more interested in making Democrats look good (and Republicans  look bad) than they are in their ostensible jobs? 

And do Democrats have any sense of shame?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I think it’s vital to our democracy to ask the question whether waterboarding is torture and whether the United States should torture suspected terrorists.&#8221;</p>
<p>While we&#8217;re on the subject, I think it&#8217;s vital to our democracy to ask why the media and the Democrats, to this day, are virtually silent on the Clinton extraordinary rendition program. Why do Democrats get a free pass on something that is demonstrably far worse than waterboarding? Is it good for our democracy that the media are complicit in this double standard? Is it healthy for us that the media are apparently more interested in making Democrats look good (and Republicans  look bad) than they are in their ostensible jobs? </p>
<p>And do Democrats have any sense of shame?</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2009/04/24/tortured-by-pelosi/#comment-127884</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Apr 2009 00:04:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/?p=5341#comment-127884</guid>
		<description>What the Japs did was commonly called the &quot;water cure&quot;.  Prisoner was forced to drink excessive quantities of water (and other substances) and then was beaten upon the distended abdomen.    

One US officer was convicted by court martial and cashiered  in the Philippine War for doing the same thing.  

This &quot;procedure&quot; has been known throughout recorded history.   When considered justified, the justification has been on theological grounds (at least in the West).
It was designed and intended to produce confessions.   Gaining information
was NOT the goal.

Waterboarding is of more recent orgin.  It has been used simply to inflict pain/elicit confessions.    However, it has a definite legitimate use in loosening tongues and enhancing veracity.

Never did it myself, but did stand nearby and watch it being done circa 1970.   Met with my hearty approval.   So long as sound judgement is used as to whom it shall be applied and under what circumstances, it is legit.


BTW   If anybody goes to trial over this, that would be a good opportunity to remind jurors of their right (and duty) to nullify the statute in question and vote &quot;NOT GUILTY&quot;
no matter what.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What the Japs did was commonly called the &#8220;water cure&#8221;.  Prisoner was forced to drink excessive quantities of water (and other substances) and then was beaten upon the distended abdomen.    </p>
<p>One US officer was convicted by court martial and cashiered  in the Philippine War for doing the same thing.  </p>
<p>This &#8220;procedure&#8221; has been known throughout recorded history.   When considered justified, the justification has been on theological grounds (at least in the West).<br />
It was designed and intended to produce confessions.   Gaining information<br />
was NOT the goal.</p>
<p>Waterboarding is of more recent orgin.  It has been used simply to inflict pain/elicit confessions.    However, it has a definite legitimate use in loosening tongues and enhancing veracity.</p>
<p>Never did it myself, but did stand nearby and watch it being done circa 1970.   Met with my hearty approval.   So long as sound judgement is used as to whom it shall be applied and under what circumstances, it is legit.</p>
<p>BTW   If anybody goes to trial over this, that would be a good opportunity to remind jurors of their right (and duty) to nullify the statute in question and vote &#8220;NOT GUILTY&#8221;<br />
no matter what.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike_K</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2009/04/24/tortured-by-pelosi/#comment-127882</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike_K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Apr 2009 23:30:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/?p=5341#comment-127882</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I am rather amazed at this. Does this mean that those Japanese soldiers who were prosecuted after World War II for waterboarding American prisoners were entirely innocent and fully justified? &lt;/i&gt;

My information is that the Japanese used very different techniques that involved real drowning instead of the 10 second intervals used with KSM. Secondly, the Japanese were in a very different situation, being interested in torture more for its own sake than urgent and critical information. Some other lefty was comparing it to what was done with pilots from the Doolittle raid. Do you really think the Japanese were trying to find out where &quot;Shangri-La was?&quot;

Also, let&#039;s see the links to the Inquisition using water boarding. They used a lot fire. Maybe you were referring to efforts to put the fire out :) Is &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&amp;address=389x2088724&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; this your source&lt;/a&gt;?

Sounds like a reach to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I am rather amazed at this. Does this mean that those Japanese soldiers who were prosecuted after World War II for waterboarding American prisoners were entirely innocent and fully justified? </i></p>
<p>My information is that the Japanese used very different techniques that involved real drowning instead of the 10 second intervals used with KSM. Secondly, the Japanese were in a very different situation, being interested in torture more for its own sake than urgent and critical information. Some other lefty was comparing it to what was done with pilots from the Doolittle raid. Do you really think the Japanese were trying to find out where &#8220;Shangri-La was?&#8221;</p>
<p>Also, let&#8217;s see the links to the Inquisition using water boarding. They used a lot fire. Maybe you were referring to efforts to put the fire out <img src='http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  Is <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&amp;address=389x2088724" rel="nofollow"> this your source</a>?</p>
<p>Sounds like a reach to me.</p>
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		<title>By: Playing Partisan Politics with Terrorists and Torture &#171; ACT Northern Virginia/Richmond/DC Metro Chapter.</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2009/04/24/tortured-by-pelosi/#comment-127879</link>
		<dc:creator>Playing Partisan Politics with Terrorists and Torture &#171; ACT Northern Virginia/Richmond/DC Metro Chapter.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Apr 2009 22:22:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/?p=5341#comment-127879</guid>
		<description>[...] Playing Partisan Politics with Terrorists and&#160;Torture  24 04 2009   President Obama is willing to play hardball politics even when it endangers national security. (Also see Roger L. Simon: &#8220;Tortured by Pelosi.&#8221;) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Playing Partisan Politics with Terrorists and&nbsp;Torture  24 04 2009   President Obama is willing to play hardball politics even when it endangers national security. (Also see Roger L. Simon: &#8220;Tortured by Pelosi.&#8221;) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Michael DeLong</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2009/04/24/tortured-by-pelosi/#comment-127878</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael DeLong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Apr 2009 21:59:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/?p=5341#comment-127878</guid>
		<description>I am rather amazed at this. Does this mean that those Japanese soldiers who were prosecuted after World War II for waterboarding American prisoners were entirely innocent and fully justified? The fact that waterboarding was a favorite tactic of the Spanish Inquisition and the Khmer Rouge, in my opinion, should tell us something about it. And why is this debate absurd? I think it&#039;s vital to our democracy to ask the question whether waterboarding is torture and whether the United States should torture suspected terrorists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am rather amazed at this. Does this mean that those Japanese soldiers who were prosecuted after World War II for waterboarding American prisoners were entirely innocent and fully justified? The fact that waterboarding was a favorite tactic of the Spanish Inquisition and the Khmer Rouge, in my opinion, should tell us something about it. And why is this debate absurd? I think it&#8217;s vital to our democracy to ask the question whether waterboarding is torture and whether the United States should torture suspected terrorists.</p>
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		<title>By: jw</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2009/04/24/tortured-by-pelosi/#comment-127877</link>
		<dc:creator>jw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Apr 2009 21:41:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/?p=5341#comment-127877</guid>
		<description>Those trying to prosecute people for their opinions, legal or otherwise, are not liberals at all but illiberals, intent on violating the First Amendment to the Constitution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those trying to prosecute people for their opinions, legal or otherwise, are not liberals at all but illiberals, intent on violating the First Amendment to the Constitution.</p>
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		<title>By: Crusader</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2009/04/24/tortured-by-pelosi/#comment-127875</link>
		<dc:creator>Crusader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Apr 2009 20:59:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Having to testify in front of Pelosi/Reid/Frank is cruel and unusual torture!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having to testify in front of Pelosi/Reid/Frank is cruel and unusual torture!</p>
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