Whoa… Let me first say something about my good friend Ron that is perhaps a little bit out of school, although he has alluded to it on his own Sirius radio show. For the last two-three years Ron Silver has been battling terminal illness, the one we most fear, taking all manner of debilitating chemo-therapy treatments, experimental and otherwise, while continuing to traipse across the country, often in acute pain, speaking out on those political issues that cost him many a Hollywood job. (He was once a leading man.) Ron Silver has shown more guts than almost any human being I know, whatever his political viewpoints.
I don’t make those kinds of claims for myself at all. But… although I have many flaws… arrogance, narcissism, frequent readers of this blog can fill in their own… I am no coward (no more than the normal one anyway). Actually, I’m a bit of a hothead – and admit it. I want to be in thick of things. On 9-11 I wasn’t in the slightest bit afraid. I was furious and ready to fight, ready to stand up for what I saw as a great danger to Enlightenment values. 9-11 wasn’t a call to cower in the corner for me. It was a call to arms in the defense of ideals I cherish. In fact, it made that clear to me as nothing before.
Mr. Hartmann, of course, had his own assumptions. He is a shrink by training – of some stripe anyway. But no matter what school of therapy he espouses, I’m sure he’s familiar with phenomenon of projection. So I’ll give him tit for tat. It may be conventional liberals of his sort that were the ones terrified on 9-11, not Ron and I. It would explain their subsequent behavior.
I leave that to Hartmann to cogitate, though I suspect he will reject the idea out of hand. So it goes in our divided world. I got into a bit with him on Air America, even raised my voice a tad. I’m not sure how well I did, but if I’m to believe the emails (and comments below) I received, much better than I would have anticipated. (Hartmann’s emails may run the other way.)
Apropos the above-mentioned interview with Milt Rosenberg, who ironically is also a psychologist by training, it will soon be online as a podcast. I will post the link when available. And check out the website for the Rosenberg show (link above). The list of guests is more than a little impressive.
I listened to you on Milt Rosenberg last night. I thoroughly enjoyed the discussion and thought you handled the opposing questions quite well. Your honesty did show through. I would never think of you as a coward. I hope that Milt will have you on again.
What’s the problem here? Apart from cowardice, paranoia, knee-jerk racism, fear of The Other, and overall mental deficiency why would any of us ever have become Neocons?
Roger,
Thanks for telling us about the AA story. Lord knows we would have never found out otherwise. Where is this station on the dial ??
And what is it’s purpose ?
This former liberal Democrat was also infuriated by 9/11 … I want to annihilate our enemies. To my remaining (still liberal) Democratic friends — this means I’m “identifying with the aggressor”, adopting his brutal tactics in response to my abject fear of his barbarity. How strange this sounds to my ears, coming from people who never cease attempting to identify with the “grievances” of what they label as “so-called terrorists”. Their endless efforts to “understand what happened” almost always boil down to some insane “context” in we are found responsible for Islamic slaughter. The “context” list is nearly endless, including, but not limited to:
Western paternalism. (redundant in the liberal mind, since “the West” and “paternalism” are interchangeable terms)
Western colonialism. (redundant in the liberal mind, since “the West” and “colonialism” are interchangeable terms)
Western racism. (redundant in the liberal mind, since “the West” and “racism” are interchangeable terms)
US support for Israel. (redundant in the liberal mind, since “the US” and “Israel” are interchangeable terms, more commonly known as “Zionists”)
Is it truly “identifying with the aggressor” if you want to hold the aggressor (the Islamic world) responsible for their heinous atrocities? Is it identifying with the aggressor” to wish to see the fascist Islamic Nazi wiped from the surface of the planet? I somehow think not.
On the other hand, is it “identifying with the aggressor” to endlessly seek explanations for the Islamic fascist Nazis’ “conduct”? Is it “identifying with the aggressor” to wish to understand the “context” of his ultra-violent eructations? Is it “identifying with the aggressor” to expiate Islamic actions by suggesting that those actions are only responses to our own horribleness towards the Muslims? I somehow think so.
The liberals piously standing on their soap boxes and wagging their fingers at those who understand our peril and are willing to call for violence to counter our enemy’s atrocities are the true cowards. They are imperiling our nation with their endless slanders against those willing to defend the West.
Mr. Simon, I was struck by the vehemence of your reaction to Thom Hartmann’s assertion that your political conversion was a fear reaction. Had he simply been mistaken, you’d have merely disagreed with him. Instead, you freaked out.
I have concluded that Thom went straight to the heart of your reaction after September 11th, 2001. If anything takes down our nation, it will be ourselves. That’s why we call them terrorists, they do what harm they can to make us afraid, hoping that we’ll do the real destruction for them.
Roger,
Fear was the sales pitch for invading Iraq. Even if you personally had some other reason to support the push to war, the driving force for the invasion was fear – there was no other reason to occupy Iraq.
Being furious and ready to fight is fine, but directing that anger and desire for action into a war on Iraqi soil was a huge mistake. It would be better to channel such feelings to productive ends in the future.
Peace.
DS
Apart from cowardice, paranoia, knee-jerk racism, fear of The Other, and overall mental deficiency why would any of us create a screen name mocking the sacrifice of the heroes who endured the very real torture of the Hanoi Hilton?
MR.SIMON: Sorry to hear about your experience,but what did you expect? If you go swimming in a sewer,don’t be surprised if you end up covered with excrement.Speaking of excrement,see above post.
6. David S: Fear was the sales pitch for invading Iraq. Even if you personally had some other reason to support the push to war, the driving force for the invasion was fear – there was no other reason to occupy Iraq.
This is true, but then the same is true waging any defensive war. You don’t do so because you have nothing to fear from your opponent. You do so to pre-empt his attacking you on terms that favor his initiatives.
David S – your sanctimoniousness makes me want to slap you.
Peace / Live long and prosper, and / May the Force be with you … since you don’t seem to be able to come up with a suitable or personal sign-off of your very own.
Twit.
As a long time resident of metro Chicago, I have always found Rosenberg’s show to be first-class. He has an interesting array of guests, and he treats them in a manner that is respectful but challenging. You get to exchange ideas via informed dialog. That is rare from my observation of most radio, especially Air America.
David S, you are becoming a very tired and sorry presence whenever you appear. You represent the height of liberal arrogance, self-importance, and faux intellectualism. You contribute nothing of value here, you just excrete piles of sanctimonius irritation. Please go away, and take your irritating “Peace” shtick with you.
Irony, my dear Boyd, irony!
DS, Iraq was a state sponsor of terrorism. WMD or not, Saddam had to go. Do you honestly believe it would believe it would be all rainbows, flowers and gumdrops for everyone had we not invaded?
I don’t think deep psychology is needed here, calling someone a coward is just a school yard taunt. If you were ten years old you could call him out to meet you on the playground after school, in 1800 you could challenge him to a duel, but as a modern adult the first thing to try is ignoring the provocation; responding will just get you sidetracked into a pointless defense. Which seems to have happened
We all have our buttons…
@10. MikeD:
Speak for yourself. Stay on topic and drop the personal attacks, and you have a leg to stand on. What did you think of the interview?
Peace.
DS
PS – That you find “peace” irritating only speaks to your own perspective on the world.
@ David S.
Peace.
Ahhh yes, the classic douchebag sign-off. And of course what he means by “peace” is “someday I will have the power to arrest and kill all the people who made fun of me.”
Reading the droppings on his blog it’s quite clear that every thought in his head is delivered by an I.V. directly from Democrat Party HQ to his brain. I think it must be a parody blog or something. Nobody could be that much of a robot.
Let us hope, dear G-d, that David S. is playing us here like a ‘cello.
I listened to the Air America interview. Seems to me Hartmann was just bringing up facts to counter your arguments, since he appears fairly up to date on a variety of topics. Sorry, but whining about a demanding interview is ridiculous; when you’re out promoting a book in various venues, you’ve got to be prepared for disagreements.
@12. mishu:
Most Iraqis now say that we should not have invaded. Most impartial observers agree. The living conditions for average Iraqis are much worse than under Saddam, and many more have been killed in the violence since our invasion that would have died under Saddam. The US had no legitimate military objective or rationale for invading.
No, Iraq without a US invasion would not be all rainbows, flowers and gumdrops – but it would be better than the carnage we have spawned.
Peace.
DS
Funny how the genuinely busy people usually take time to read the book while the posuers tend to fall back on stereotypes and rants instead of actually engaging the guest in meanignful debate.
Peace through superior firepower
NC Mountain Girl
Go to Amadinejad with this peace thing and take Barney the purple blob with you. How many peace accords have there been with palestinians of all labels? How many rockets have been fired at Israel since the first one?
Could there be a more dunderheaded, clueless, vapid ill-conceivable notion when there are people whose sole intention is to kill us? They’ve stated it, they mean it, they act upon it.
David S, what would you have done after 9/11 then? And how do you know that Iraq is worse off today than when Saddam was in power?
If you are going to make these bold statements, you need to back them up with facts and provide a credible alternative. Otherwise, you are simply a Monday morning quarterback.
Roger, your book is a wonderful read. Now I will have to look up your Moses Wine books.
I am devastated to learn that Ron Silver is so ill.
#18 David S – You’re mistaken. The living conditions in Iraq are now far better than they ever were under Hussein. Oh, sure, the infrastructure is damaged, but they are FREE!
Libs always discount the very real, but intangible, benefits of things like freedom and individualism. They like to point to less important things like standards of living, as measured by incomes and such. I’d rather be suffering and free, than in a gilded cage. But maybe that’s just me.
Congratulations for taking the fight to Air America. I’ve seen many cases in which liberal media books conservatives and then tries to tag them as extremists so that the audience can participate in the “two-minute hate”. This happens to Bill O’Reilly and Ann Coulter all the time. But once a conservative can go beyond being personally attacked and get into the substance of an argument, its actually a good opportunity to win converts. And if the conservative is actually likable – like Bill O was on Letterman – then even better.
At its heart, America is a pragmatic, common sense country, and when you tell people things like “terrorists need to be stopped” or “you know how to spend your money better than a politician” or “you can’t just have open borders with no security” they know its true. You can make a strong case that 80% of America agrees with conservatives on 80% of the issues. Maybe once you’re on a liberal talk show than that number falls to 50% of 50%, but that’s still a huge opportunity to at least get people listening and thinking.
- Tristan Yates, Author “Enhanced indexing Strategies”
I have heard this charge of cowardice on the Right for just the first time. Is this a new narrative going around? Amazing. I doubt one could ever find a Liberal war-hero, but conservative ones abound.
David S.,
Don’t you have a sociology of pagan culture class to run off to?
“Hi, I’m David S…Bush lied, people died…Iraq was an illegal war…Kosovo was legit…Reaganomics was a mirage…tax the rich…pornography is art…one man’s terrorist is another’s freedom fighter…Sean Penn is the voice of my generation…everything’s relative…meth for twelve-year-olds…Obama is great…blah, blah, blah…look, everybody, I can cut-and-paste from Wikipedia…yippeee…Peace.”
But please stick around, junior – heaping deserved scorn on you probably helps you relive your school-boy days, eh? By your comments, probably a fresh memory.
“Irony, my dear Boyd, irony!”
For me it would be an incongruity between what I say or do and what I mean. From you it’s just sick.
the driving force for the invasion was fear – there was no other reason to occupy Iraq.
Other than the occupation of the Kurdish areas, the no-fly zones, our presence in Saudi Arabia that set off OBL, the real risk that Saddam would finally down one of our planes that was flying the air patrols, the collapsing sanctions, the corruption of the oil-for-food scheme that was turning the UN into a cesspool and a few others.
It is certainly easier to construct a theme from whole cloth than to learn history and apply its lessons.
The cowardice theme comes up all the time on lefty blogs. They do not believe that the militant islamists want to kill us. It is all a rightist conspiracy. Maybe West Hollywood should sponsor tour of Iran.
Here is a lovely example of the cluelessness of the left on national defense. To avoid a second underwater collision between nuclear subs, we should put transponders on them so everyone knows where they are. After all, who would want to hurt us ?
“He said that, “After 9-11, you and Ron Silver were frightened,” or words to that affect, implying that Ron and I had become suddenly terrified of the terrorists and our acts thereafter, supporting the war on Islamofascism, were motivated by a (one supposes) bullying cowardice.”
Blech… stupid tactic, stupid statement on his part. Like I said back in 2006 on Neoneocon’s blog: “There’s a difference between “healthy concern” and “irrational fear”. The first is the product of much reflection and analysis.” And it seems that the latter, in this context, is merely a shibboleth stated for convenience, a strawman for easy argument. Not a reasonable analysis based on fact.
That fool is the kind of full-of-it type that aggravates me to no end. They’re not as smart or observant as they think they are, but they sure love to act as though they are.
First word out of any liberal’s mouth is always “racist,” and then
“coward” when they don’t like someone’s ideas. Such a tolerant
bunch, those totalitarians. They have hurled those epithets
so often they no longer have any meaning. And they always think they’re right in their haughty elitist nasty rhetoric. They’re rude and bullying and I avoid them like the plague!I don’t see how you can bear to be in their company. More power to ya.
“They have not wanted peace at all; They have wanted to be spared war — as though the absence of war was the same as peace.”
– Dorothy Thompson
@24. steeple:
The proper response to 9/11 would be to find and arrest those responsible for planning, funding and carrying out attacks against the USA. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. Iraq is worse off because their infrastructure was destroyed, economy crushed, tens of thousands are dead, and they are now subject to infiltration by their neighbors.
That’s what I said when Bush & Co. were pushing their “WMD” angle. They couldn’t demonstrate a danger from Iraq, or any reason that an invasion would reduce the overall threat to the USA.
@26. Marc Malone:
I don’t think military occupation and freedom have much in common. Material conditions for Iraqis are much worse than before the war – and many are refugees now. Religious warfare in Iraq is worse because of our occupation.
@29. donttreadonme:
Glad to have you as a fan.
Peace.
DS
David S:
Could you point me to the multitudes of videos on youtube that have Bush, Cheney, Powell etc. claiming Iraq had anything to do with the 9/11 attacks?
The only one time I can think of is when Cheney implied it on Meet the Press but quickly corrected himself.
Iraq is a separate issue from the 9/11 attacks. No Sheet!! You had a murderous despot who was responsible for two wars and whose modus operandis was to be an agressive thug in perpetuity.
Most Iraqis now say that we should not have invaded. Cite, please.
Most impartial observers agree. Cite, please.
The living conditions for average Iraqis are much worse than under Saddam, and many more have been killed in the violence since our invasion that would have died under Saddam. Cite, please.
The US had no legitimate military objective or rationale for invading. Now that’s just nonsense.
Yo, Boyd!
ref: “From you it’s just sick.” That’s pretty intense. Can you elaborate?
Heh. Hartmann essentially sets up the interview with…
“First of all, let’s establish that you’re a frightened little baby of a Bush-loving fascist.”
@ David S:
Your wisdom is radiating from this sentence:
The proper response to 9/11 would be to find and arrest those responsible for planning, funding and carrying out attacks against the USA.
Care to elucidate us,- neocon, fascist, RACIST, neo-Nazi – warmongers as to how and where would you find and arrest “those”…and who are “those”…?
Haven’t offered your astute acumen to your Kenyan demigod yet?
Why not? Just dress up like Poirot or Sherlock Holmes and you will find surely your guys in the cave near the Eagle Mountain road.
You sound like an idling steam engine releasing hot vapor at the train station.
Regards
Your comment to Armstrong Williams about the Boomers being overcome with “Idiotic Nostalgia” describes our silly generation better than any other. Anyone who still believes the Beatles’ music was profound, is an idiot.
David S.
Being furious and ready to fight is fine, but directing that anger and desire for action into a war on Iraqi soil was a huge mistake.
Tell that to the women who can now participate in the workplace and the youong girls who are now allowed to attend school.
David S @ 36 says;
It is precisely this mentality that led the people that slammed those planes into the WTC and the Pentagon to do it. It is precisely that mentality that Osama Bin Laden tells his followers makes him certain that Islam will eventually crush the West, no matter the West’s technology or resources.
Clinton treated multiple attacks on Americans and America as crimes. We got emboldened terrorists that laughed at the idiots using lawyers to fight a war, and then 9-11. David’s response, as usual: more of the same failed ideology, hoping for a different outcome (a.k.a insanity). At least he managed not to also say he believes these terrorists have a grievance he also empathizes with.
David, why is Obama not going back to the Clinton way of dealing with terrorists? Let me save you the time of running to collect DNC talking points for the answer: if he does that, he guarantees another attack. How do you think the American people will react when he promises to pursue the culprits with the full power of the law when his job was to prevent it? The law does a shitty job punishing people at war with you. Especially when the other side abuses and misuses your own law to help its war effort.
Liberals seem to live in Disneyland. The rest of us live in the real world.
Please extend my prayer to Ron Silver.
“Thom” instead of “Tom”? Might that indicate a pretentiousness complex? And silly you, Roger, for being scared on 911.
It’s been pointed out that for years the Left was complaining that we didn’t actually do anything about vicious tyrants but that we tolerated them for “stability.”
When a Republican president agreed with this complaint and decided to start draining the swamp… well, liberals who could understand that switched camps (as Roger did, as I did, as many others did) — and the remainder went into some kind of cognitive dissonance or something.
The Left of today is absolutely, entirely, completely, 100% incapable of hearing, let alone accepting the reasons for the war in Iraq.
It doesn’t matter how many times you explain it, they will 1) feign astonishment, 2) claim they’ve never heard the argument, 3) tell you you’re lying/misled/naive, and then 4) forget the entire exchange.
A short history of the use of the word “peace” as a form of salutation and leave-taking.
For David – ’cause he loves all this attention.
Early, authentic baby boomers used “peace” in two ways. Firstly, and primarily, to irritate parents, teachers, principals, shop keepers, the police – well, pretty much all adults, really. Certainly, anyone that they perceived as a figure of authority – which was just about anyone not in their sizeable age group.
To be effectively irritating, the word was spoken almost as a blessing – softly – with perhaps just a hint of weed – and accompanied by a smile of condescending pity – as if from an enlightened superior being to something still trying to climb out of the primordial swamp.
And the second way in which it was used? Well, baby boomers will recall that “peace” was frequently used by guys who were trying to be cool but were really dorks.
David manages to encompass both in his attention-getting, “look at me, look at me” comments – any attention; negative or positive as we used to say. Well done, Dave.
For those of us who truly yearned for peace, 9/11 was the end of a dream.
As for Iraq, it may (or may not) have had nuclear weapons but it certainly had chemical weapons. You might want to do a little research on Saddam’s use of chemical weapons against the Kurds.
Personally, I think that chemical weapons most certainly fall into the category of weapons of mass destruction; again, I use the slaughter of the Kurds as an example.
Maybe war is just Nature’s way of keeping the human population under control.
“The proper response to 9/11 would be to find and arrest those responsible for planning, funding and carrying out attacks against the USA.”
Those responsible were in a soverign country (Afghanistan). We had no extradition treaty with that country. We had no diplomatic relations with that country. Very few countrys had diplomatic relations with the government of that country (the Taliban). The administration demanded that country hand-over the bad guys (you have two weeks, I beleive). That country refused.
How the heck are you going to send police into a soverign country to arrest people? That country has an army. That army will resist your police (detain them or kill them). If you really want your police to arrest the bad guys, you need your army to go first, beat-up their army so your police can gain access to the bad guys. Two armies fighting. That’s called war, my friend. It’s really not that complex. Sheesh.
There is a pretty good book written by the fellow who prosecuted the WTC bombers from 1993. Maybe David should read it.
@44. AlexinCT:
David S @ 36 says;
Clinton presided over much less death and destruction than either Bush. War on Terror is like War on Drugs – impossible to win, expensive to prosecute, and ultimately counter-productive. Harm reduction is the proper approach in both cases.
Obama is working to stop the discredited and illegal tactics of the Bush administration. Bush somehow had lots of public support after his government failed to prevent the 2nd WTC attack – but you are probably correct that Obama would not be allowed this luxury by his critics. The law is perfectly adequate, and the only appropriate method to deal with non-state criminal actors.
The world did not change in any fundamental way on 9-11 – only your perceptions did.
Peace.
DS
“The world did not change in any fundamental way on 9-11 – only your perceptions did.”
Peace.
DS”
As a non-American, I find it amazing that, after an unprecedented attack that killed 3,000 civilians on American soil, there are Americans who can say that there was “no fundamental change”. What’s the problem of that people? The “world” might not have changed, after all you see people dying by the thousands in wars in many parts of the world – but not in New York. And that should make all the difference for someone who lives in American soil (I am supposing that David S. is an American, but he could well be a Canadian or an European). That he, like much of the left, seems more worried by the death or even the “rights” or foreign terrorists than of his co-nationals says much about him too.
Regarding the “peace” sign-off, I’m pretty sure it is designed to irritate, like pretty much everything he says here. Sometimes a troll is just a troll.
War,
H.
Actually, don’t see much change.
David S, you give a whole new dimension to the word ignoramus. What I find most amusing is the apparent lack of effort required to beclown yourself. What compels you? Are you a masochist who simply delights in offering yourself as an intellectual punching bag? Or are you simply a half-witted fool? Perhaps you are simply intent on convincing all of us that liberalism truly is a disease that rots the mind, just like syphilis? Congratulations! In that regard you are a roaring success.
What an a**hole you are. Have you ever thought about the mind expanding possibilities of sucking on a .45? Do the world a favor.
David S –
You live in a fantasy world.
The rest of us live in the real one. In the fantasy world of your imagination, only the US, Russia, and China have nukes, and the way to security is to hold hands shouting “America Sucks!” In the real world, Pakistan and North Korea have nukes, and Iran has or shortly will have nukes. All have satellite launching capabilities, and thus ICBMs.
Moreover, Pakistan and Iran are more tribes and factions with flags than real nations like Russia or China. Whoever has the most men under pay/sway that day can “borrow” a nuke or three to give to a non-state Actor, like AQ, with or without the connivance or knowledge of some or all of the Pakistani or Iranian governments.
Reality, unless the US removes Iran’s regime and it’s nukes, every state in the region will nuke up (and just about everyone else) as the US defense umbrella collapses and we are no longer feared.
Nukes are the great equalizer, they along with deniable non-state actors, neutralize our navy, air force, and ICBMs. They allow poor, violent, tribal, and polygamist societies the ability to kill millions of Americans so tribal leaders can gain money, power, men, and become the new Caliph or king or leader.
This is brutal reality — nuclear proliferation makes America hideously unsafe, every American city at the mercy of whoever can get a spare nuke. Let me remind you who we deal with: Ayman Al Zawahari, AQ’s #2, once shot two 12 year old boys, brutally blackmailed by the Egyptian secret police, over the objections and calls for mercy by his own brutal jihadis. He did it himself, after yanking down their pants and pointing to the growth of hairs. With his own pistol, laughing.
This is the man you propose to give the power of life and death to American cities over to, because you are too cowardly to stand up to a real threat.
Just as cowards, appeasers, and peaceniks turned what could have been a relatively painless victory of Hitler’s non-existent Wehrmacht in 1934 during the re-militarization of the Rhineland into a bloody, six year war costing about 50 million lives.
Out in the real world, Ramzi Yusef could have killed 50,000 Americans in the Twin Towers had his bomb been bigger and luckier, toppling one tower into the other in 1993, and Clinton not Bush would have been forced to make someone into an example.
It is never about us, it always about them. Now THEY have nukes too, we are not feared, and they know Dems would respond to the nuking of NYC by wailing why they hate us. Instead of precluding it by making them fear us.
In short, you put the opinion of our enemies over safety and security of our people, and reveal yourself to be a traitor to this nation and it’s people.
DS:
Go back and read your stuff. You’re just an ol’ party hack aren’t you? Don’t give an inch. No room for compromise. You pull with all your might to the left don’t ya?
peace through strength. out.
d.
“The world did not change in any fundamental way on 9-11 – only your perceptions did.”
I wonder how you might have perceived being in one of the towers above the point of impact, David, with not much longer to live – would the call to your loved ones be about the vagaries of Cowboy Diplomacy, at least as you perceived them at the time, or perhaps something more personal? Would your thoughts extend to what drove the “criminal actors” to set the chickens roosting?
Then again, who cares what you would think or feel? Let a blue ribbon commission figure it out later. Pretty soon you’d just be a pawn after-the-fact for some useful idiot wannabe blogger with an axe to grind, sticking it to those godawful neocons. Imagine.
Victory.
LH
-The world did not change in any fundamental way on 9-11 – only your perceptions did.-
The problem is not that our perceptions changed after 9/11, it’s that yours didn’t.
Playing us all like a ‘cello, alright. How ’bout the way he ends his posts with that “peace” signoff, like scratching his nails on the blackboard. This guy is really good!
Milt Rosenberg is much too liberal for me, but he is not unintelligent and not unskilled at what he does. His show is sometimes very good, and I’m surprised he was not picked up nationally a long time ago… It is also sad the way Larry King is wasted in his current high-bucks format. When he had his midnight-4am radio show years ago, from Jeff Davis Boulevard in
Alexandria, and allowed guests to talk in real depth–he let THEM talk, too–you didn’t mind his orthodox liberal weltanschauung. He talked to me a couple times, always with good humor and always with unfeigned interest in what he heard, even though he would rather have been at the track.
HPH, more “irony”, right?
36. David S:
“The proper response to 9/11 would be to find and arrest those responsible for planning, funding and carrying out attacks against the USA.”
That’s what we did after the first WTC bombing. And look how well that turned out. Of course, that’s probably what you wanted.
Good ol’ Slick Willie had more than one chance to get OBL and he turned them down.
Are we aure this guy’s name isn’t Wobbie?
Roger-
Many thanks for your interview on C-SPAN with Armstrong Williams. I didn’t know much of anything about you beforehand, so your honesty and intellect was refreshing and illuminating. I plan to read your latest book.
I also didn’t know you had an interview on Air America because, like most Americans, Air America remains a rather strange anomaly to me, as well as simply being an entity that is notoriously unpopular. However, I admire your courage to venture into such a den of intellectual and journalistic anal gazing. I would respectfully suggest you avoid Air America, just as the majority of the talk radio marketplace has done for many years.
The “proper” response…a leftist (not a liberal or a progressive) tells us, is to do essentially nothing. You see, hypocrisy in leftism is high art.
1)A “liberal” President did not make the “proper” response when he gathered up every Japanese-American and put them in camps, did he? This “liberal Democrat” is lionized for not “fearing anything but fear itself”, I hear. But, what would one conclude about the need to corral a race of people after a sneak attack? It seems to me that the response from that lionized President would be, “I had to make a tremendously difficult decision to first protect the people of this nation and did not have an easy means of separating the innocent from the guilty. I live with what I did, because those on the sidelines who throw rocks were not confronted with those hard choices.”
2)And, I suspect that another Democrat who dropped a bomb of world shaking impact upon the aggressor against this nation, would similarly state that he was faced with the hard decisions of letting our men die in massive numbers, protecting us from an aggressor at the time. The sideline cowards who would always have us do nothing…and nothing…and nothing again, can throw their rocks. But that Democrat decided to act in a manner he found necessary when confronted with an enemy wishing to kill, maim and destroy us.
3)And, another liberal Democrat stared down a Soviet-Cuban threat…bringing the world to the brink of a conflict of shattering proportions. Working with Cuban exiles to take down that threat and willing to confront enemies wherever they approached us, by whatever means necessary. Including some very violent attempts at regime change.
4)And, another Democrat stared into the streets at marching leftists (many we came to find, controlled by the enemy)while he had our men fighting to stave off the enemy’s attempt at world domination. When we finally left this far off land…the slaughter by the enemy was in the millions. The sideline sitters erase that fact from each and every conversation they have on the subject, because hypocrisy is the first symptom of cowardice.
5)And, yet another Democrat…in fact, an entire administration of “liberal” Democrats voted in regime change as a matter of law against a tyrant, murderer and dictator in Iraq. They said that he was the greatest danger to mankind on the planet. They said that he possessed the ability to produce, manufacture, purchase and hand off weapons of mass destruction. They lobbed missiles and bombs at him.
So, when I hear a coward say that a “Republican” or a “neocon” did this, or is evil because he did “that”…I know this hypocrite isn’t an American. He’s a tool.
This person is so convinced of their own “nuance” that they have “nuanced” hypocrisy into every cell and atom of their being. Leftists are NOT “liberal” nor are they “progressive”. These shape shifting, revisionist curs have nothing better to do than to come here and spout the regurgitated crap that they are fed…as they have always been fed, from the leftist playbook. They hurl their little rocks from the sidelines. They flame their little rhetoric and leave ashes in their wake. The gaping holes in their revisionist history (and logic) aside, they seek nothing but to inspire hatred, demonization and stereotyping of non-leftists.
I can’t imagine the personality type it takes to wake up in the morning and decide to go to a blog solely for the purpose of being a flaming ash hole. What inner joy does that bring? How does that advance any concrete notions or ideas? Who are these people in real life?
The President in his speech last night suggested on a number of occasions that we “inherited” this and we “inherited” that. My thought immediately went to all those Democrats and liberals from whom we have “inherited” much of our current situation. For the past several decades, we have “inherited” much from those who governed before. Cut a tree and count its rings…we inherit all that has come before us.
Most especially, we have inherited cretins who live in this country and seek to divide us. They seek to consort with enemies of state and seek to tear down the fabric of this land of ours. We inherited those who would gang rape our information stream and distort the very facts upon which we need to know to self-govern this land of ours. We inherited liars and cowards hell bent on destroying us from the inside. We inherited extremists who champion enemies and attack the home team incessantly. And we inherited their grating, grinding, arrogance and fraud.
Roger Simon and Ron Silver need make no apologies for their courage. As their countryman I admire and salute them and wish for them every dream to come true. For confronting the most despicable enemy…the inside traitor…I express my deepest gratitude. To those traitors, you can go straight to hell. Neither the truth, …nor my country…will ever succumb to you. Not as long as I draw breath. You will be defeated.
And, much more recently, for invading our great-grandchildren’s piggy banks.
David S @ 50 says:
David, thanks for proving my point so well for me. The fact is that Clinton was able to do what you claim, not because he was a great president, but by passing off all the hard decisions and needed though action to the next guy. We got 9-11 because of that. Idiots like you still miss the point that it was the harm reduction (or whatever other idiotic name you give it) attitude that encouraged the people at war with us to do 9-11. The only attitude change that will discourage any more attacks by terrorists, is either our conversion to Islam, or our death. They are in a war they intend to win. They have made that very clear to us. I know liberals are too stupid to take these people seriously, but some of us are not.
David S @ 50 says:
I fell of my chair lauging at this crap. Thanks for not disappointing me dude! Just as I predicted you libs would react. I knew you would be making excuses and pretending things where different when in fact they are not. It really must hurt to live in fantasy land like you do, huh?
This summarizes the problem right here David. People like you still insist – and do so out of political expediency and lack of moral and ethical strenght, because you prefer to shove off the consequences of your lack will to make hard decisions andaction to someone else – on pretending it is better to deal with terrorists after they kill Americans than before they do. I really wish democrats would come out and tell Americans they think they should be prosecuting terrorists in court after they kill thousands of us, instead of killing them before they can kill us.
I adore Milt Rosenberg and am looking forward with great anticipation to viewing and listening to the interview.
Or I guess it’s just listening to . . . Must remember to “thimk” and proofread before clicking on “submit.”
David S said:
Obama is working to stop the discredited and illegal tactics of the Bush administration. Bush somehow had lots of public support after his government failed to prevent the 2nd WTC attack – but you are probably correct that Obama would not be allowed this luxury by his critics. The law is perfectly adequate, and the only appropriate method to deal with non-state criminal actors.
Hey davey, maybe you should get your head out of your anal cavity and get informed about the obama and his “policies”
He takes Bush’s position on warrantless wiretaps
He hires cronies for political appointments
He increases the deficit by a trillion or more (and that’s just his first month!)
He stops giving detainees trials
He hasn’t closed Gitmo (issued an order to try, but Bush tried too)
He will still do renditions
He wrote caveats into his own Exec Orders to still allow for torture like water-boarding
He put a guy in charge at CIA who admits to doing 60-80 renditions HIMSELF
He sent 17000 Americans to Afghanistan w no plan and no timeline for withdrawal
He has not ordered the withdrawal from Iraq in 16 months (cause its not possible to speed up the withdrawal Bush started)
He ignored millions of Americans devastated by an ice storm in Tennesee, W Virginia, and Kentucky
He has NOT HELPED the economy one bit
He has no plan to solve even a single challenge facing his admin
Oh well, at least he has a D next to his name and can read a teleprompter.
People like you amaze me with you ignorance and arrogance!
God Bless America
“The law is perfectly adequate, and the only appropriate method to deal with non-state criminal actors.”
Hey fleabrain, exactly what law are you talking about? American law? When did that gain jurisdiction in Afghanistan and Pakistan and Iraq and Iran?
I’m sure you were too young to recall this but Bush asked Afghanistan to handover the “criminals” to us. The Taliban said no. Okay genius now what? Should the FBI invaded Afghanistan?
Now, regarding Iraq:
1) Did Iraq have WMD, especially chemical? Yes, unequivocally.
2) Did Iraq have contacts with Al-Queda prior to 9/11? Yes, unequivocally.
3) Was Saddam happy with 9/11? Yes, unequivocally.
4) If the US had not invaded Afghanistan is there any reason to believe that Al-Queda would not have attacked again? No.
5) If the US had not invaded Iraq was there any reason to believe that Iraq would not have shared some WMD with Al-Queda?
And there you have the key question. Why do you want the US to suffer a WMD attack?
I think you were courageous just to go on AA and be a target for their superficial dialogue and wordplay. They are the type to look the other way when bullies beat up other children and try to make excuses for their behaviour, rather than stop it. They are not the type of men I would trust to protect anyone – talk about cowards.
As the Dalai Lama said recently – “I love George Bush” – he was making the point that there comes a point when evil must be faced and fought, because there is no dealing with it otherwise.
RE #3/Hanoi Paris Hilton: “[...] What’s the problem here? Apart from cowardice, paranoia, knee-jerk racism, fear of The Other, and overall mental deficiency why would any of us ever have become Neocons? [...]”
HPH, I’ll take the risk of breaking the patient/doctor confidentiality rule and I’ll reveal to the PJ readership that your above line makes also for one of my many entries in your clinical file whe I had you under custody at the UCLA mental ward.
At the time you were imterned there for a collection of mental problems, spectacularly crowned by an strikingly low IQ – they let you out however, and now, unexplainably for me (considering your mental resources), you post on Internet.
I normally do not harp on the grammar and spelling of internet message boards but……misanthropicus: When attacking the intelligence or “an strikingly low IQ” of another, spelling and grammar are vital. Possibly you were tired from “whe” you were staying up or were “imterned” past your bed time. At the risk of not taking my own advice I continue to “post on Internet”.
“Motivated by fear”???
What could be more cowardly than lashing out hatefully to those that try to thoughtfully and patiently warn you, while keeping your head so far inserting in your ass that you need to cut a hole in your bellybutton to see out? Geesh!
RE #71. stu.b.con RE David S:
stu.b.con, you are perfectly right – yet it still amazes me how deep in denial liberals are.
The only explanation for their attitudes is that (and I am one amongst many others claiming this), liberalism is not an outlook resulting from thinking maters over, life experience, reading, etc., but simply a mental deficiency.
cfbleachers seems to like liberals and progressives but not leftists. A fine line to be sure. I am curious how cfbleachers plans on sending all those Americans he disagrees with and calls “traitors” to hell? Are you planing a lynching? I’m sure an old fart like you might have had some experience in lynching Americans he disagrees with.
In comment #63, Jim C. said: Good ol’ Slick Willie had more than one chance to get OBL and he turned them down.”
It is a matter of record that President Clinton made an effort to kill Osama bin Laden. He’s since been blamed for it’s failure, as if he were the one actually aiming a weapon, rather than giving the order.
Contrast that with the first year of President George W. Bush’s administration, in which NOTHING was done about Osama bin Laden until after September 11th. Come to think of it, George W. Bush never did catch him, did he?
I feel much safer now that Bush is retired. If you’re going to persist in referring to President Clinton as “Slick Willie” what should I call Bush? How about… incompetent failure? Yeah that works.
“Are you planing a lynching? I’m sure an old fart like you might have had some experience in lynching Americans he disagrees with.”
Good God, you are one obnoxious character, Joseph.
Yeah, I realize that it’s not All About Me, but let’s retrace here. In my first posting I referred to “us-Neocons”, which could have been wrongly taken as ironic, but wasn’t, as I am one. Unlike my litany of all the bad reasons —cowardice, fear of The Other, blah blah— by which the Neocons bought in the so-called war on terror; which was altogether ironic, but was evidently taken by Boyd, Lughtning and Misanthro at face value. OK, fair enough.
First, Boyd went nuts over my blog handle, seeing it as a snide and unwarranted slapdown of our tortured hero POWs. I responded with a way too obscure paraphrase of Harold Macmillan’s, “Events my dear boy, events”.
Then Lightnin’ Misanthro, in an extended literary conceit of his own, broke with psychiatric ethics and outed me as a mistakenly-released nutcase and mental defect. Also fair enough.
But while I wasn’t a POW, my military record from the Viet Nam era qualifies me as at least a second-string —or at worst, a third string— war hero (DD 214 supplied on request); and thus absolutely respectful of the first string. No irony here.
Regarding the amazing posts of David S., who may well be a phenomenally-clever troll (go Google up some of Greg Gutfeld’s early deadpan brilliant contributions to the HuffPo), but probably isn’t, bear please with another anecdote:
I had been an expat for decades in parts of Asia where the Internet was nonexistent or spotty, and surfing the blogosphere wasn’t yet an option. On returning to the USA heartland I soon got sucked deep into the center-right blogosphere and somehow wandered into Little Green Footballs, which I had never then heard of, and which was then pushing the nomination of Rachel Corrie, aka “St. Pancake”, for “dhimmi of the year”, or something like that.
Not yet having a clue as to how the game was played at LGF, or really anyplace else on the Web, I posted a paragraph or two on the LGF board saying that however duped and exploited by the Palestinian “resistance” Corrie may have been, her death (which had occurred only a few weeks before) certainly was shattering to her parents, who were obviously a pair of well-intentioned progressive liberal post-boomers —to whom I for one could certainly relate— and the whole thing should be better seen as a tragedy befalling high-minded American naifs of a familiar type. Rather than an opportunity to cruelly revel in her death.
Total zero irony.
But whoa, was that ever not where it was at for LGF, and maybe not for the blogsophere as whole! Not then and evidently still not now.
The Lizardoids went totally berserk: half of them whacking me as an apologist drone for Pali terror and an evil clone of Corrie herself; the other half absolutely sure I was a troll, and advising everyone not to feed it. No irony there either, as far I could tell.
HPH, what do you expect? Most of these posters seem to live in a well insulated box. Trying to engage an intelligent conversation with some of them is harder than herding cats.
Can’t wait to hear the Simon interview.
Hanoi Paris Hilton, I’m afraid you confused me with another commenter. I’m not a Doctor, and I don’t play one on the internet. I merely said “more ‘irony’, right?” – not knowing exactly where you were coming from with your “This guy is really good!” comment (#60). I took it as sarcasm, or just plain humor, but wasn’t completely sure so I simply asked what you meant. That’s it.
Thanks, Pat.
I don’t know whether you can still download it from WGN, but I remember Milt Rosenberg’s two hour interview last fall with some center-right intellectual who was then researching the $150M failed Annenberg Chicago schools project, wherein Obama was deep deep deep with Bill Ayers and his ilk; and regarding the archives of which the University of Illinois, Chicago library was the repository, but which had suddenly stonewalled scholarly access…
Evidently on instructions from Messiah Central in Chicago, which indeed had been invited by WGN to participate in that show but declined, Rosenberg’s phone lines were OD’d and the callers who did get through were all Obamazoid drones repeating the suggested talking points that the guy being interviewed was an evil liar.
Milt, a man more or less of left lineage, was clearly shocked on-air by such a number being run on him and on his audience. That shoulda been a nationwide eye-opener. But of course it wasn’t.
Yeah, eagerly I await the RLS podcast as well.
It was a typo, Lightnin’, where I had intended to separate out your comment from Misanthropicus #74′s, who may or may not be a doctor, but likes to make believe he’s one. Sorry.
Also as my long post above should make clear, I thought, and still think, it not impossible that David S. was ragging us all.
No offense taken, HPH, just wanted to clear my good name!
David S. has a blog of his own, if you click on his screen name you’ll see that it’s safe to say he is being completely serious in his commentary here. Sample titles from his blog archive: “The GOP: A Party For Idiots”, “Ignoring the dark side of Capitalism”, “Pretend Rebels of the Right”, and so on.
In comment #63, Jim C. said: Good ol’ Slick Willie had more than one chance to get OBL and he turned them down.”
It is a matter of record that President Clinton made an effort to kill Osama bin Laden. He’s since been blamed for it’s failure, as if he were the one actually aiming a weapon, rather than giving the order.
This is simply not true. He approved an effort to capture him but it was impossible to do with him in Afghanistan surrounded by Arab fighters. The suggestion was made several times to kill him but it was always vetoed because of the fear of “collateral damage.” Maybe you should read the 9/11 Commission report. That may also be why the TV miniseries “Path to 9/11″ has never been released on DVD. WE thought it might be after Hillary’s presidential campaign collapsed.
Contrast that with the first year of President George W. Bush’s administration, in which NOTHING was done about Osama bin Laden until after September 11th. Come to think of it, George W. Bush never did catch him, did he?
You mean the first year when he could not get anyone confirmed by a raging Democrat Congress minority that filibustered nominations and opposed every nomination, aided and abetted by weepy Republican tools like Voinovich? That first year ?
The DoD appointed staff were not in place until summer. Funny how memories fail.
Lightnin, just because David S. has his own blog specializing in such outrageous topics doesn’t necessarily mean he isn’t a troll. Trolls can be bloggers, why not?
But If we are well-advised to take Hamas and Ahmedinejad at face-value, I guess maybe we need to do so with David S.
But then you wonder why he haunts PJM so relentlessly.
Oh , have to send you a martyrs crown when I get a chance. I guess you should stick to right wing talk radio where you can count on fawning unconditional support, the same way Bush stuck to military bases in the last years. Give me a break, you act like he poured molten lead over you!
Oh, of course we invaded Iraq cause not only was Saddam an absolute threat ready to pounce but we were SO concerned about those poor Arabs that we were moved to do anything to help them.
Yeah Mike K.
Be a good Bushbot and display BDS, remember when something bad happened on Bush’s admin, it was all (pick appropriate one) Clinton’s, Congress’s, Barney Frank’s, George Soro’s, Chris Matthew’s, Sean Penn’s, the MSM’s, etc FAULT. If Osama was considered such a big threat before 9/11, then where is the record of Bush or any major con or hawk warning or trying to do anything about it? Come on, where was the Churchill of our times? Laying that crap on us about appointments holding Bush up is a talk radio level lie of an excuse. I blame neither Bush or Clinton for 9/11, stuff happens, that’s life. But NO ONE, besides a few right wing Bush loving fanatics, give Bush credit for any foresight.
Typical response with invective and no facts. Did you read the 9/11 report ? A family member was at the house last year after the Path to 9/11 series was on TV and it came up in conversation. She came out with your line as she is a lefty (and elderly former hippie). I just happened to have the 9/11 commission report in the bookcase. I also happened to have a book mark in the page where the OBL story was covered. I gave her the book to read and she got very quiet.
Unlike you, she was willing to accept facts.
By the way, BDS is YOUR thing, not mine. The fact remains that the Bush administration was seriously delayed in setting up because of the rage over the 2000 election and in July Doug Feith was the second appointee confirmed. Rumsfeld didn’t have a deputy until June.
Anthony Lake has a lot to answer for. Why don’t you read Andy McCarthy’s book and see how well Kerry and Obama’s approach to arresting terrorists worked ?
I didn’t say that Bush had foresight. I did say that his administration was crippled for a long time, months, by the election fallout. I suspect that is why he made such an effort to assist Obama in the transition. What he found was computer keyboards missing the “W” keys.
But don’t let me interrupt your fantasies.
Typical response with invective and no facts. Did you read the 9/11 report ? A family member was at the house last year after the Path to 9/11 series was on TV and it came up in conversation. She came out with your line as she is a lefty (and elderly former hippie). I just happened to have the 9/11 commission report in the bookcase. I also happened to have a book mark in the page where the OBL story was covered. I gave her the book to read and she got very quiet.
Unlike you, she was willing to accept facts.
By the way, BDS is YOUR thing, not mine. The fact remains that the Bush administration was seriously delayed in setting up because of the rage over the 2000 election and in July Doug Feith was the second appointee confirmed. Rumsfeld didn’t have a deputy until June.
Anthony Lake has a lot to answer for. Why don’t you read Andy McCarthy’s book and see how well Kerry and Obama’s approach to arresting terrorists worked ?
I didn’t say that Bush had foresight. I did say that his administration was crippled for a long time, months, by the election fallout. I suspect that is why he made such an effort to assist Obama in the transition. What he found was computer keyboards missing the “W” keys.
But don’t let me interrupt your fantasies.
Remembering Byzantium. Your opponent suffered from ‘metempsychosis.’ Or something like that. Haven’t yet read your book but I promise I will read it. In the meantime, tell me that you read the book ‘The Orientalist’ and found the subtext substantive.
Remember that whether or not they are aware of it leftists simply have absorbed their ideology from hardline communists and their extremely sophisticated propaganda techniques which have kept their memes alive long after the collapse of the governments that spawned them. There is a list of ideas that form the basis of the left’s worldview and foremost among them is the notion that there are no external enemies, only internal enemies. Thus all the fear and loathing of the left is saved for conservative Americans, Republicans, etc.
Of course the left doesn’t fear the “terrorist threat” anymore than they feared the “communist threat”. But they were sure Bush was a fascist dictator and the camps were just around the corner.
Another case, albeit on a societal level, of garbage in garbage out.
David S
If you think the people in Iraq were better off before we went in you need to read a factual book by Latif Yahia & Karl Wendl, called ” I WAS SADDAM’S SON “. You more than likely, like most of us, have no idea what living in fear of even our neighbor or a close relative is like, read this book and then if
you still think Saddam and his son’s were not involved in plans directed at their neighbors as well as our country. Mr. Simon has lived like many of us for years seeing the tragedies that have happened around the world because backs were turned to help those in need, we want to help from strength of our knowledge and convictions and freedoms, what makes our country so great.
Hope you read the book and it sheds light on the dark side of your ideas. Have a good week.
84. Hanoi Paris Hilton:
The show you are referencing is from 8.27.08 when Milt had Stanley Kurtz on as his guest.
Clearly there was an organized attempt by Obama supporters to silence Kurtz which only made the show that much more interesting.
It is approximately 2 hours in length.
Links to the podcast and story here:
http://www.wgnradio.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=44075&Itemid=99999999
http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/08/printer-obama_campaign_confronts_wgn_r.html
Take care.
I’m so very sorry about Ron Silver. I’ve enjoyed Ron’s work since his days as Gary Levi and greatly appreciated and admired the way he stood up to be counted after 9-11. All the best, Ron; keep up the good fight!
Is the Booknotes interview available anywhere? I went looking for a video or transcript at their website, but it’s virtually useless and doesn’t look like it’s been updated in years.
Would you call yourself pugnacious, Roger? I’m sure given your extensive experience with them, no shrink is going to be able to put anything over on you.
“The proper response to 9/11 would be to find and arrest those responsible for planning, funding and carrying out attacks against the USA.”
Dude, this is like a bad acid flashback. I can’t tell you how many “conversations” I had with you lefties on this very topic after 9-11. They all went something like this: You’d typically open with the arrest warrant gambit. You would insist, naturally, on international arrest warrants and that the culprits be turned over to The Hague. I would say, okay, now you’ve got your properly executed warrants (never mind how long it must have taken to determine exactly to whom those warrants should be issued–if you even could–and how long it must have taken to arrange matters to the exact satisfaction of the international community–if you even could; never mind that OBL has been under indictment in the US since the first WTC bombing). You arrive at Mullah Omar’s door and demand to execute said warrants (never mind that if you’ve done your job properly, you’ve got one for him, too). So, after the Mullah laughs square in your astonished and indignant puss and then slams the door in it while admonishing you to not let it hit you in the ass, what’s Plan B? Funny, but that was where the conversation always ended. I guess there was no Plan B. But the funniest thing? Now amongst your crowd, Afghanistan is the “good war,” the one where we dropped the ball and let OBL get away. You guys gotta stop being so predictable; it’s monotonous.
unctuous: smugly agreeable; insincerely earnest
That’s what people who sign their missives “peace” are.
In comment #91, Micke_K. said:
“I didn’t say that Bush had foresight. I did say that his administration was crippled for a long time, months, by the election fallout. I suspect that is why he made such an effort to assist Obama in the transition. What he found was computer keyboards missing the “W” keys.
But don’t let me interrupt your fantasies.”
Interesting that you mentioned fantasies. During the transition from the Clinton to Bush administrations, there was no vandalism or removal of “W” keys from computer keyboards, cabinets glued shut, sliced wires, or any of the other nonsense that was reported.
Wait… Air America is still on???
about David S and his troll
Don’t work too hard to refute his rant: his blog shows he is a radical Bolshevik – very much likely belonging to the Commie tribe of the Chosen p*** of Comrade Chomsky, Shaul Alinsky, Bronstein (Trocky) and other devotees of the Russian Revolution of 1919.
Steven Winters:
About those W keys…
The GAO and Time magazine appear to disagree with you: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1002747,00.html
Try again, pal.
How could so many nice Jewish boys get so involved with such mishigas!
And maybe even David S. (Schwartz? Solomon?) himself, kaynahorah!
Oh, and Thomas 103, maybe you can tell us more about the “Chosen p***”? If it’s “People” that’s s’pozed fit in there, you left out three asterisks.
Also, the Bolsheviks took over in late-1917. Maybe you have secret info on another “Russian Revolution of 1919″? Was that the one where the J*** crowbarred out the gentile Bolshies?
@107. HPH
I was born in Eastern Europe and that vast, frozen expanse is where the modern saga of the Jewish people unfolded. You are ill suited to lecture us on the European History for we were both victims and surviving witnesses of that era and we learned every tremble of that bloody and tormented epoch.
You’d better taunt somebody else of your caliber and intellect.
Well, what exactly were you trying to say, Thomas, in your post on the Chosen p*** and the Jewish-only names you listed, including Bronstein/Trotsky (for those of us who somehow didn’t know his lineage) as the list of leftist villains?
And who is the “we”, as in “we are both victims/…”?
Insofar as I may have inadvertently insulted you, my apologies; but your post was loaded with insinuations… beside the error in date.
“Eastern Europe” covers a lot of cultural geography. What part of it are we talking about here? Are you still personally grinding an historical axe over the disproportionate role of secular Jews in the revolutionary left?
@109. HPH
““Eastern Europe” covers a lot of cultural geography. What part of it are we talking about here?
From the Rhine river (Rosa Luxemburg – Spartacist rising 1919) to the Kolyma river’s gold mines in E. Siberia where the walking dead were disgorged only to never return.
And everywhere in between…like the Danube river with Bela Kun, the red butcher.
Why is so important to you to know my exact geographical location at those times since peoples were constantly transported from one camp to the other? Why does it matter to you?
“WE” – are those who lived there, suffered there, witnessed all that there and engraved their experiences into their subconscious.
“WE” are those who kept on inhaling the poisonous air long after the chief protagonists departed to hell.
The “Memory hole” is a Western word, “WE” are not Westerners but Easterners and “WE” don’t forget and “WE” remember.
I cannot say more because my post will be deleted; – it has happened already, so leave it at that.
Well it wasn’t deleted, was it?
Red Butcher” Bela Kun, né Bela Kohn, ehhh?
@111.HPH
Yes, it was.
Certain subjects are taboo even to mention.
Based on your posts, I assume you are an astute man, just as cognizant of Historical facts and events as most of “us” (the aforementioned “WE” people)…as for the rest…”WE” cannot care less about them;- they carry no weight.
Appreciate the respectful exchange, Thomas, and I’ll be more careful to maintain such an attitude in the future on this, and on the other PJM boards. Too easy to be a cruel jerk on the Internet.
Also, regarding the the Jewish Bolshies and the terrible disasters that flowed out of that, and maybe still do, first off, at least consider the “root causes”. If revolutionary secular Eastern European Jews still enrage you, you might look at the trajectory and writings of right-wing Zionist secular Eastern European Jews such as Zev Jabotinsky, who had no use at all for Marxist delusions.
I was one of the three people who actually heard that interview (purely by accident while testing a stream). I was interested enough in what I heard that I was one of the 9 people who have searched out and viewed the C-Span interview on the c-span web site.
Hartmann’s treatment of you was incredibly “over the line”, I immediately sat down and wrote my thoughts about it. If you didn’t hear what happened in the 20 minutes after he hung up on you, you would have been even more outraged (but probably not surprised)
In comment #104, qrstuv said:
“About those W keys…
The GAO and Time magazine appear to disagree with you: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1002747,00.html
Try again, pal.”
I did try again. Here’s a link that contradicts yours:
http://archive.salon.com/politics/feature/2001/05/23/vandals/index.html
Now… in order to believe that my link is more truthful than yours, one would have to believe that the Bush administration itself was dishonest. Let’s see, lying us into a war….
Hi, Roger: Any references you have to people interested in a high quality script with the values you treasure, as opposed for the usual Hollywood videogame movie? I’ve got one as good as Giant and the Godfather and Easy Rider. Interested? ed v.
Steven Winters,
I’m amused that you cite an article in Salon with a straight face.
The article I pointed to was run by Time magazine and it mentions the GAO as the source of the information.
If you want to tell me that Salon “debunked” this, pray tell why didn’t Time run any sort of follow-up? Time is not exactly known for being in cahoots with the eeevil Republicans.
qrstuv,
AOL Time Warner qualifies as corporate media, they don’t impress me much. And I suppose that they didn’t bother following-up because it wasn’t much of a story to begin with. The “vandal scandal” was a load of nonsense courtesy of then White House press secretary Ari Fleischer. Time Mag. reported what he spewed, and moved on, as so much of the mainstream media did during the horrific eight years of the George W. Bush administration.
All and all, a time of relentlessly bad government and incredibly shoddy journalism. One wouldn’t have been possible without the other.
By comparison, salon.com has been providing something genuinely worthwhile since 1995.
I am sorry I missed your interview on AA. It sounds like you really held your own however. And I am so sorry to hear about Ron Silver and his illness. He is such a unique voice/presence in Hollywood and in the world of ideas. My prayers and thoughts are with him.