Comments on: Another Death Penalty Post – Tookie continued

By: beautifulatrocities

beautifulatrocities — Sun, 11 Dec 2005 22:43:30 +0000

My vow to God is more important than what I say to any human being on the face of this earth

Let’s hope he has a conversation with God real soon, like, Tuesday

By: AndyRoark

AndyRoark — Sun, 11 Dec 2005 14:03:29 +0000

The thing I have seen missing from the whole “Tookie” debate is the issue of the fallout from the gang he formed.

He is credited with the four people he directly shotgunned to death, but somehow the thousands of people who have died in relation to Crips violence over the last twenty five years are not, in any way, connected to his actions.

It seems to me that this would very cleary link him to Mr. Simon’s “public safety” clause.

Of course the only reason we are listening to any of this garbage is because Ray Charles played him in the movie version. And dosen’t everyone love Ray Char – uh, I mean Jamie Foxx?

By: Patrick Tyson

Patrick Tyson — Sat, 10 Dec 2005 19:38:20 +0000

It is laughable to assume that he rose to the head of the Crips without commiting multiple murders.

There is a lot I don’t know about the Crips as they existed when I lived in South Central, but by all accounts he was a founder and I do know that the name and the gangs who formed and/or affiliated around that name had the appearance of coming out of nowhere and nothing.

There is every likelihood that Williams and I crossed paths however briefly during a week in the summer of 1975 after a neighbor, a friend, a sometime protector and a Crip who lived directly across the street took a bullet in the head at the local swimming pool. Only two of the dozens and dozens of young men I didn’t already know who were on the block, at the memorial service and at graveside made an impression and he was neither.

I oppose the death penalty, but then I oppose a lot of things that are legal under the law—and vice-versa. It’s the Governor’s call. I won’t shed a tear or crack a smile (not that I did in 1975 either) either way.

By: Luther McLeod

Luther McLeod — Sat, 10 Dec 2005 18:47:29 +0000

I wish there were a way for Arnold to read a few of these posts, though I am sure he is receiving ample advice. It is the nature of that advice that concerns me. I may not be religious, but from personal experience I know that purely evil (realizing that sociopath is the more technically correct term) human beings exist in this world. I don’t think the quantity of their murders should exempt these people from justice. This man should pay for his crime. As Jamie states “…a conviction can be mistaken.” is the only thing that sways my thoughts concerning the death penalty. That does not seem to be a factor in this instance.

His supporters are nothing but pandering enablers looking for a bandwagon to further their credo of victimology and no individual is responsible for his/her actions. Can’t we all just get along my a**.

By: Jamie Irons

Jamie Irons — Sat, 10 Dec 2005 17:10:17 +0000

What ShrinkWrapped says is entirely correct.

One further thought about the death penalty itself.

In my view, and I know this question is fraught with controversy, there is only one compelling moral argument against the death penalty, and that is that a conviction can be mistaken.

The only possible “mistake” in Tookie’s case is that the death penalty was not applied more swiftly.

Jamie Irons

By: Kevin Peters

Kevin Peters — Sat, 10 Dec 2005 16:42:46 +0000

Roger;

Confession is a major part of redemption. Lets say he is innocent of the four murders that he has been convicted of. It is laughable to assume that he rose to the head of the Crips without commiting multiple murders. Has he confessed to every murder that he must have been involved in? When he has confessed to all his actions then the idea of redemption is possible. As far as I know he hasn’t. I don’t buy it.

By: ShrinkWrapped

ShrinkWrapped — Sat, 10 Dec 2005 16:12:41 +0000

Jamie beat me to it; this man has all the trappings of a sociopath (aka Psychoapath, which overlaps with extreme narcissistic pathology). He has never repented his crimes; true repentence would have included horror at what he did to other, innocent human beings; he would beg for forgiveness from the families of his victims and understand if they couldn’t give it to him. It would include a vow to do everything in his power to never allow such evil to flourish. He would have to debrief the police and help them in every way possible to stop his former friends from hurting more poeple. There is no evidence any of these things have happened. Instead, his concern begins and ends with himself. He wants to maintain his “street cred” which aids his celebrity, such as is it, so he won’t give up his fellow crips (with some lovely rationalization, sure to be bought by the idiots in the celebrity culture, tools) that by talking to the police he would be harming people; in a word, Bullsh*t!

Even though I am ambivalent about the death penalty, if anyone deserves it, this man does.

By: Jamie Irons

Jamie Irons — Sat, 10 Dec 2005 15:54:16 +0000

I appreciate the comments of the prosecutor above, and entirely concur.

Pierre too makes good points.

What are the chances we would be hearing at all about this monster if he were a white, upper middle class, Harvard-educated serial killer who had “repented” and written books for little kids attending private school, urging them not to embark on a life of white-collar crime when they grew up and held controlling interest in major corporations?

Zilch. Because such a person could never be seen as a “victim” of anything, except perhaps of too many advantages. (Sniff.)

A psychiatrist can usually smell a sociopath coming from several miles away.

This man is an unredeemed, miserable sociopath, and his much-ballyhooed “repentance” is a crock.

Jamie Irons

By: Pierre Legrand

Pierre Legrand — Sat, 10 Dec 2005 15:20:24 +0000

Sympathy for a murderer’s accomplice? Sorry but that is a slippery slope into the madness that threatens our society. Responsibility for ones actions is not just a standard for those of us able to remain coherent enough to take stock of our actions each moment of our life, but also for those who choose to become “stoned” out of their mind.

Over and over we hear nearly everyone in our corrupt society claiming that it wasn’t their fault. There were extenuating circumstances, the devil made me do it and so on.

The death penalty stops the possibility of a murderer or his accomplices getting out of prison. This happens far more often than the general public realizes.

I personally put a murderer away who had stabbed to death a mother of 5, 42 stab wounds…pleaded insanity, got it. Got out in 20 years. He walks among us. He threatened me from prison, I stay armed just in case. The criminal justice system made me a victim for helping. I resent it deeply. Screw criminals, they deserve no sympathy.

In regards to armed robbers, they are the most likely to repeat offend. Combine that with killing a person and everyone involved in those sorts of crimes needs to die.

Pierre

By: brian

brian — Sat, 10 Dec 2005 13:32:59 +0000

joe, i know what you mean about the sympathy for even the most vile killers. a jury takes the death penalty very seriously and they do not vote on it in a frivolous manner. i have very little sympathy for the 19 year old that you have mentioned. the fact that he was stoned means little also. i ve taken all kinds of drugs and have never considered robbery or murder as a result. because i am an atheist, i think that life is is the only thing we have and someone who murders as a result of a crime must die. the nuance comes in on crimes of passion between say a husband and wife. in crime, sorry, no exceptions. that is part of the occupational hazards of a criminal career. i suspect that most first time criminals don’t murder or rob convenient stores. just like anything else, it starts with the small things, shoplifting, stealing a bike, etc.

also, the first time i actually thought of adolph hitler being human was finding out that his favorite song was “smoke gets in your eyes” the song later made famous by the platters. brian