http://www.autoextremist.com/page2.shtml

The Prius gets approx. 55mpg.

A comparable compact car, like the Toyota Echo, gets approx. 35mpg.

So it would appear that the echo gets 20mpg less gas mileage.

Over the 150,000mile life of the car, the Echo will burn 150,000/35 = 4,300 gallons of gasoline.

Over the 150,000mile life of the car, the Prius will burn 150,000/55 = 2,700 gallons of gasoline.

The difference between the two is 4,300 – 2,700 = 1600 gallons of gasoline “Saved” by the Prius.

Now, the Batteries cost approx. $6000 from Toyota.

For batteries like this, which are basically an electrochemical power plant, roughly 50% of the cost is the energy used to produce it.

So, the batteries took $3000 worth of energy to produce.

This energy comes in the form of electricity, predominantly, which was produced in Japan.

Japan produces over 80% of its electricity using petroleum hydrocarbons, like oil, natural gas, and coal.

At a wholesale electricity cost of 9 cents per kilowatt-hour, $3000 buys you 33,000 kwH of electricity.

The extra electric motor costs a good deal of money, and consumes alot of power to produce, but the internal combustion engine in the Prius is

smaller than the one in the Echo, so I’ll ignore this energy cost for this estimation.

That same $3000 buys you, at a wholesale gasoline price of $1.50 per gallon, 2000 gallons of gasoline

Since we are using current approximate wholesale energy prices here, the equivalence of $ for power is a close approximation of true energy cost.

So, we see that the energy used to produce the Prius, EXCEEDS the gasoline saved by 400 gallons.

(2000 gallons gasoline equivalent to make the batteries minus 1600 gallons “saved” by the Prius)

This is all pseudoenvironmentalism, and wastes energy to boot.

Thank you for your statement #6. My husband has been a Dodge salesman for years, and never once has he interacted with a (potential) customer who has — in any way,shape, or form — sighed for a hybred car, even now that Dodge/DCX will be bring out one; at best he’s had a few folks ask him why Dodge doesn’t have more diesel (option) models.

Far and away, people want big cars and BIG SUVs and REALLY BIG trucks (yes, even women). As big a POV as they can afford, and sometimes even a bit more than they can afford. And believe it or not, the sale of scarcely gas-sipping Vipers have even taken an up-tic.

The Neon is considered by customers (actual or potential) a pretty much simply a “gateway” car, which no one a year or two out of college seems to want. Though many, limited by their pocketbook, have resigned themselves to acquire. (NB: I said “many”, not “all”.)

This is why all this talk about how American want hybrid cars, and trucks that get XYZ gallons to the mile always puzzles me.

The consumers may grumble about the price of gas, but, here in Ohio, they’re buying those “gas-guzzlers” (Oh, how I hate that term!).

Frankly, I think that liberals with their pronouncement that the American people are demanding “safer”, more fuel efficent cars and trucks is simpily another case of, “The wish is father to the thought.”

Mobility bestows freedom. And you are freer in an Ram 2500 than you are in a DCX “SmartCar”. IMHO, this is a chef reason liberals — never famous for their passion for freedom — are so quick condemn “gas guzzlers”.

The statement is frequently made that the manufacturing of hybrid batteries is very energy-intensive, to the point that it negates any energy savings by the car itself. However, I’ve been unable to find any credible data either way.

What I’m looking for is an estimate of the total energy consumed in making a hybrid battery, including the entire value chain (including mining) and how much of this is offset when & if the battery is recycled.

Any insights?

I’ve seen some thoughtful comments and many that are hostile to the entire idea of hybrids. To find out more about what we’re doing, I urge you to read our 3-page Fact Sheet, found in PDF form at http://www.priusplus.org and in text form at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/calcars-news

For a quick response to one big issue: why an electric car is cleaner than a gasoline car even on the dirty national (50% coal) grid see section 4 of http://www.calcars.org/vehicles.html

And to keep things lively, we will add a link to this blog at http://www.calcars.org/kudos.html -

by Felix Kramer, founder, California Cars Initiative http://www.calcars.org and the PRIUS+ campaign http://www.priusplus.org

Thoughtful

1. Toyota’s US plants are free of expensive health care coverage that GM and Ford have. This gives them a tremendous cost advantage.

2. Toyota has less costly manufacturing processes, which allows them to profit on vehicles that customers don’t pay premiums for. In contrast GM and Ford require high demand vehicles for which customers pay premiums in order to profit. GM and Ford were hurt by the drop off in demand for high margin SUVs and Trucks.

3. Toyota is not infallible, their quality in US-made vehicles are falling because the Japanese quality gurus could not and would not train replacements, and Toyota is unable to keep them at US plants for any length of time. US-built Toyotas DO suffer build quality problems, and the process of continuous manufacturing improvement just isn’t there, as Toyota focuses on cost-cutting and not quality.

4. Hybrid cars are a joke. They are expensive to buy, and even costlier to own since they require low-volume specialized parts (read: extremely expensive) and considerable labor for maintenance. This makes them horribly expensive for consumers to own over 3-5 years. You couldn’t pay me enough to own one. They also have significantly poorer handling and safety features, and are not environmentally friendly (batteries take up lots of energy and pollution to manufacture).

5. Daimler-Chrysler is making money, not off of Mercedes but CHRYSLER, due to using their high performance Hemi engine in retro-styled cars offering handling and performance. The 300, Charger, Magnum, etc. are all high-demand, very profitable cars. They are also uniquely American, calling back the muscle cars of the 1960′s. US Car companies CAN be profitable if they make good cars that people want to buy. There is no Japanese magic or American disease.

6. It is a matter of national security and the economy to keep US jobs and technological know-how in this country. This doesn’t mean bailouts per-se but allowing our tech heritage to be sold off for pennies is stupid. Policies designed to provide say a baseline for universal health coverage, and capital investment in factories in the US employing high-wage/skillset workers is a start.

7. GM derives most of it’s revenues from it’s financing arm, leading to a badly run company that does not focus on manufacturing excellence and great cars (though Caddy, the sadly discontinued Buick Regal, and a few other cars are outstanding).

8. Hybrid cars have two separate powertrains, complex computer systems, and lots of electrical wiring just for everyday use. Already they have experienced sudden stallouts at speed (60 mph); they are a rube goldberg solution to a non-existent problem, yes clean diesel as others have said is a better solution.

9. GM in particular has starved the research in new vehicle design, and outside of Caddy produced boring, bland vehicles like the GTO (lacking the style and performance features of the Mustang or Charger). This is a management issue that requires internal commitment, Toyota or Honda buying them won’t change that.

5)glass half empty or half full

6)what can be done now can be done later…