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	<title>Comments on: A &#8220;modern Marshall Plan for Africa&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/06/03/a-modern-marshall-plan-for-africa/</link>
	<description>The blog of the mystery writer, screenwriter and CEO of Pajamas Media</description>
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		<title>By: tioedong</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/06/03/a-modern-marshall-plan-for-africa/#comment-51631</link>
		<dc:creator>tioedong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jun 2005 22:07:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/06/03/a-modern-marshall-plan-for-africa/#comment-51631</guid>
		<description>You want to help Africa? Give to your local church, or a good NGO like Oxfam...if you send &quot;government aid&quot;, it will end up in politician bank accounts in Europe...



Right now I&#039;m sending money to friends in Zimbabwe...I figure they&#039;ll get half of what I send, but it will keep them alive and pay school fees for the kids...



Alas, my friends can only hint on what is going on there, because they are worried their letters will be read (one of my friends had her brother hiding out with her in a rural area: he was a pro democracy advocate...).



I can&#039;t do much to help, but have started a blog on that poor country, pasting stuff from google:

http://makaipa.blospot.com
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You want to help Africa? Give to your local church, or a good NGO like Oxfam&#8230;if you send &#8220;government aid&#8221;, it will end up in politician bank accounts in Europe&#8230;</p>
<p>Right now I&#8217;m sending money to friends in Zimbabwe&#8230;I figure they&#8217;ll get half of what I send, but it will keep them alive and pay school fees for the kids&#8230;</p>
<p>Alas, my friends can only hint on what is going on there, because they are worried their letters will be read (one of my friends had her brother hiding out with her in a rural area: he was a pro democracy advocate&#8230;).</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t do much to help, but have started a blog on that poor country, pasting stuff from google:</p>
<p><a href="http://makaipa.blospot.com" rel="nofollow">http://makaipa.blospot.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: HA</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/06/03/a-modern-marshall-plan-for-africa/#comment-51630</link>
		<dc:creator>HA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jun 2005 11:04:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/06/03/a-modern-marshall-plan-for-africa/#comment-51630</guid>
		<description>PeterUK,



So be it. This is how we will learn to stop making these loans. People fortunate enough to be living in nations that have elected governments are responsible for the actions of their government. For good or ill. People living in &quot;nations&quot; that have undemocratic, illegitimate regimes are not.



If my government makes lousy decisions about what to do with my money, I have right to cast my vote against the politicians that make these decisions. I have the liberty to attempt to persuade my fellow citizens to vote in a similar manner. Folks in hellholes like Zimbabwe don&#039;t. These places are not legitimate nation-states to begin with.



Western governments and institutions shouldn&#039;t be making loan guarantees. We should be preaching that the solution to third world poverty isn&#039;t charity. It is the protection of private property rights, free markets economics, the rule of law, limited government and individual liberty and personal responsibility. These are the solutions to poverty.



Instead, our governments and institutions preach socialism and give government backed loan guarantees. We legitimize the falsehood that governments can create wealth. They can&#039;t. All government can accomplish is to secure a system in which private parties can create wealth.



And with Tony Blair throwing in the towel on Europe in favor of focusing on African poverty, you should get a good tight grip on your wallet:



&lt;i&gt;&quot;Africa is worth fighting for. Europe, in its present form, is not.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;sessionid=0COXJNZA4GEQ5QFIQMGCM5WAVCBQUJVC?xml=/news/2005/06/05/neu05.xml&amp;sSheet=/portal/2005/06/05/ixportaltop.html&amp;secureRefresh=true&amp;_requestid=22123
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PeterUK,</p>
<p>So be it. This is how we will learn to stop making these loans. People fortunate enough to be living in nations that have elected governments are responsible for the actions of their government. For good or ill. People living in &#8220;nations&#8221; that have undemocratic, illegitimate regimes are not.</p>
<p>If my government makes lousy decisions about what to do with my money, I have right to cast my vote against the politicians that make these decisions. I have the liberty to attempt to persuade my fellow citizens to vote in a similar manner. Folks in hellholes like Zimbabwe don&#8217;t. These places are not legitimate nation-states to begin with.</p>
<p>Western governments and institutions shouldn&#8217;t be making loan guarantees. We should be preaching that the solution to third world poverty isn&#8217;t charity. It is the protection of private property rights, free markets economics, the rule of law, limited government and individual liberty and personal responsibility. These are the solutions to poverty.</p>
<p>Instead, our governments and institutions preach socialism and give government backed loan guarantees. We legitimize the falsehood that governments can create wealth. They can&#8217;t. All government can accomplish is to secure a system in which private parties can create wealth.</p>
<p>And with Tony Blair throwing in the towel on Europe in favor of focusing on African poverty, you should get a good tight grip on your wallet:</p>
<p><i>&#8220;Africa is worth fighting for. Europe, in its present form, is not.&#8221;</i></p>
<p><a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;sessionid=0COXJNZA4GEQ5QFIQMGCM5WAVCBQUJVC?xml=/news/2005/06/05/neu05.xml&#038;sSheet=/portal/2005/06/05/ixportaltop.html&#038;secureRefresh=true&#038;_requestid=22123" rel="nofollow">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;sessionid=0COXJNZA4GEQ5QFIQMGCM5WAVCBQUJVC?xml=/news/2005/06/05/neu05.xml&#038;sSheet=/portal/2005/06/05/ixportaltop.html&#038;secureRefresh=true&#038;_requestid=22123</a></p>
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		<title>By: PeterUK</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/06/03/a-modern-marshall-plan-for-africa/#comment-51629</link>
		<dc:creator>PeterUK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jun 2005 00:58:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/06/03/a-modern-marshall-plan-for-africa/#comment-51629</guid>
		<description>HA,

But they are then holding our populations responsible for the debt.We are also setting the precedent that loans to countries which have rulers that embezzle the money have no responsibility to repay the debt.This is then undermining the concept of a nation state that whatever the government does the people are not responsible.This would seem to be the old idea of going bankrupt and setting up government in the wifes name.


</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HA,</p>
<p>But they are then holding our populations responsible for the debt.We are also setting the precedent that loans to countries which have rulers that embezzle the money have no responsibility to repay the debt.This is then undermining the concept of a nation state that whatever the government does the people are not responsible.This would seem to be the old idea of going bankrupt and setting up government in the wifes name.</p>
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		<title>By: c</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/06/03/a-modern-marshall-plan-for-africa/#comment-51628</link>
		<dc:creator>c</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jun 2005 21:55:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/06/03/a-modern-marshall-plan-for-africa/#comment-51628</guid>
		<description>Meanwhile, &lt;a href=&quot;http://normblog.typepad.com/normblog/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Zimbabwe&lt;/a&gt;, that sits on the UNHRC.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Meanwhile, <a href="http://normblog.typepad.com/normblog/" rel="nofollow">Zimbabwe</a>, that sits on the UNHRC.</p>
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		<title>By: HA</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/06/03/a-modern-marshall-plan-for-africa/#comment-51627</link>
		<dc:creator>HA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jun 2005 18:06:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/06/03/a-modern-marshall-plan-for-africa/#comment-51627</guid>
		<description>PeterUK,



That&#039;s true. But maybe we&#039;ll have to learn the hard way not to make these kinds of government loan guarantees in the first place.



The bottom line is that giving first-world government backed loans to third world totalitarian kleptocrats and then holding the populations responsible for loan repayments is not just immoral, its bad policy.



&lt;i&gt;&quot;It is worse than immoral, it&#039;s a mistake.&quot; - Dean Acheson&lt;/i&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PeterUK,</p>
<p>That&#8217;s true. But maybe we&#8217;ll have to learn the hard way not to make these kinds of government loan guarantees in the first place.</p>
<p>The bottom line is that giving first-world government backed loans to third world totalitarian kleptocrats and then holding the populations responsible for loan repayments is not just immoral, its bad policy.</p>
<p><i>&#8220;It is worse than immoral, it&#8217;s a mistake.&#8221; &#8211; Dean Acheson</i></p>
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		<title>By: PeterUK</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/06/03/a-modern-marshall-plan-for-africa/#comment-51626</link>
		<dc:creator>PeterUK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jun 2005 14:15:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/06/03/a-modern-marshall-plan-for-africa/#comment-51626</guid>
		<description>HA,

The problem is that the debt will not be cancelled but paid by those governments that guaranteed the loans,ultimately it will be paid by the taxpayer.The Bankers still win.Gordon Brown is already at a point where he will have to raise taxes,his raid on pensions has driven pensions into crisis.Somebodies up is somebody elses down,Brown and Geldorff will not be affected.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HA,</p>
<p>The problem is that the debt will not be cancelled but paid by those governments that guaranteed the loans,ultimately it will be paid by the taxpayer.The Bankers still win.Gordon Brown is already at a point where he will have to raise taxes,his raid on pensions has driven pensions into crisis.Somebodies up is somebody elses down,Brown and Geldorff will not be affected.</p>
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		<title>By: HA</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/06/03/a-modern-marshall-plan-for-africa/#comment-51625</link>
		<dc:creator>HA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jun 2005 11:23:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/06/03/a-modern-marshall-plan-for-africa/#comment-51625</guid>
		<description>PeterUK,



&lt;i&gt;Cancelling debts to &quot;old dictators&quot; will not ensure the future for Africa.If debt can be written off by a political directive nobody will lend,the various countries credit rating will fall,there will be no money for investment that is vital to development, export credits will be impossible to obtain.&lt;/i&gt;



Cancelling debts is the one issue in which I&#039;m in agreement with the zombie marxbot wackos. Of course this won&#039;t solve Africa&#039;s problems. But it is the necessary first step because it will ensure that loans are made for economic reasons rather than political reasons.



First world government backed loans to third world kleptocrats has to be the most idiotic policy ever invented. First of all, nothing of any economic value ever gets created. Second, the first world banks don&#039;t face the true risk of their loans. The risk/return ratio is completely out of balance. And when the kleptocrat regimes default, it is the ordinary taxpayer who picks up the tab. These policies become a huge transfer of wealth from the middle class to first world money center bankers and third world kleptocrats. The policies are insane.



Furthermore, it is grossly immoral to hold the populations of undeveloped countries accountable for stupid loans made to unelected regimes. I don&#039;t think ordinary Iraqis should pay Saddam&#039;s debts. I don&#039;t think Zimbabweans should pay for Mugabe&#039;s debts. Will this affect their ability to get export credits? Of course, but they shouldn&#039;t have been given them in the first place.



Capital will continue to be raised for nations that provide a legal and economic environment where lenders can realize an appropriate return on investment. This means that productive economic assets will be created from the capital, rather than having it diverted to Swiss bank accounts.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PeterUK,</p>
<p><i>Cancelling debts to &#8220;old dictators&#8221; will not ensure the future for Africa.If debt can be written off by a political directive nobody will lend,the various countries credit rating will fall,there will be no money for investment that is vital to development, export credits will be impossible to obtain.</i></p>
<p>Cancelling debts is the one issue in which I&#8217;m in agreement with the zombie marxbot wackos. Of course this won&#8217;t solve Africa&#8217;s problems. But it is the necessary first step because it will ensure that loans are made for economic reasons rather than political reasons.</p>
<p>First world government backed loans to third world kleptocrats has to be the most idiotic policy ever invented. First of all, nothing of any economic value ever gets created. Second, the first world banks don&#8217;t face the true risk of their loans. The risk/return ratio is completely out of balance. And when the kleptocrat regimes default, it is the ordinary taxpayer who picks up the tab. These policies become a huge transfer of wealth from the middle class to first world money center bankers and third world kleptocrats. The policies are insane.</p>
<p>Furthermore, it is grossly immoral to hold the populations of undeveloped countries accountable for stupid loans made to unelected regimes. I don&#8217;t think ordinary Iraqis should pay Saddam&#8217;s debts. I don&#8217;t think Zimbabweans should pay for Mugabe&#8217;s debts. Will this affect their ability to get export credits? Of course, but they shouldn&#8217;t have been given them in the first place.</p>
<p>Capital will continue to be raised for nations that provide a legal and economic environment where lenders can realize an appropriate return on investment. This means that productive economic assets will be created from the capital, rather than having it diverted to Swiss bank accounts.</p>
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		<title>By: chuck</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/06/03/a-modern-marshall-plan-for-africa/#comment-51624</link>
		<dc:creator>chuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jun 2005 05:19:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/06/03/a-modern-marshall-plan-for-africa/#comment-51624</guid>
		<description>Tim,



I am coming more and more to Terrye&#039;s side on farm supports. Food is too important to be left to the vagaries of world politics and weather. I want to keep sufficient food production in country to feed everyone. I don&#039;t think food supports are the cause of African poverty, abolishing them is just the latest fad cure. Corruption, bad government, lack of education and opportunity, culture, tribalism, a tough environment, and the European cantagion of socialism have all combined to set the continent back. Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, China -- all manage to trade with us without relying on food exports. I think the whole issue is a red herring.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim,</p>
<p>I am coming more and more to Terrye&#8217;s side on farm supports. Food is too important to be left to the vagaries of world politics and weather. I want to keep sufficient food production in country to feed everyone. I don&#8217;t think food supports are the cause of African poverty, abolishing them is just the latest fad cure. Corruption, bad government, lack of education and opportunity, culture, tribalism, a tough environment, and the European cantagion of socialism have all combined to set the continent back. Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, China &#8212; all manage to trade with us without relying on food exports. I think the whole issue is a red herring.</p>
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		<title>By: someone</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/06/03/a-modern-marshall-plan-for-africa/#comment-51623</link>
		<dc:creator>someone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jun 2005 21:50:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/06/03/a-modern-marshall-plan-for-africa/#comment-51623</guid>
		<description>A new Marshall Plan!  Great idea.  Let&#039;s flatten Africa, overthrow all their governments, and station a huge amount of troops there over decades to make sure they don&#039;t screw up again.  Seriously.



In reality, of course, Africans need not just honest government but the &lt;i&gt;expectation&lt;/i&gt; of honest government.  The former depends more or less entirely on the latter...  And I don&#039;t know how they&#039;ll pick it up without a strong long-term American or British presence on the continent (not likely).
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A new Marshall Plan!  Great idea.  Let&#8217;s flatten Africa, overthrow all their governments, and station a huge amount of troops there over decades to make sure they don&#8217;t screw up again.  Seriously.</p>
<p>In reality, of course, Africans need not just honest government but the <i>expectation</i> of honest government.  The former depends more or less entirely on the latter&#8230;  And I don&#8217;t know how they&#8217;ll pick it up without a strong long-term American or British presence on the continent (not likely).</p>
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		<title>By: simone_r</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/06/03/a-modern-marshall-plan-for-africa/#comment-51622</link>
		<dc:creator>simone_r</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jun 2005 20:44:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/06/03/a-modern-marshall-plan-for-africa/#comment-51622</guid>
		<description>Correction:



which WEST Germans also had (not the East Germans, alas for them)
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Correction:</p>
<p>which WEST Germans also had (not the East Germans, alas for them)</p>
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