72% voter turnout in Iraq. Democracy triumphs!
Don’t gloat with your friends who said we did the wrong thing. (Okay, gloat a little). A special shout for Omar and Mohammed. You go, guys! You are a model!
Even Reuters is singing a different tune. This is incredible!
And the epidemic is spreading!
But there is still trouble in paradise. Via Hugh Hewitt, the headline of my hometown LAT this morning is “Who’s Dying in our War?” [The MSM-ed.] And John Kerry sounds like a reactionary jerk. And this man seems equally irrelevant. Why doesn’t he give his billions to medical research rather inflict his narcissistic opinions on us?
Great coverage from Blair. This photo from Cigars in the Sand says it all: 
Big losers today – Administration of the University of Michigan (employers of Juan Cole) and Teddy Kennedy’s cardiologist (it will be hard to keep the Senator on his diet after his humiliation). Big winner for similar reasons – Barbara Boxer’s cosmetic surgeon. Big cartoon winner (not Boondocks, obviously).
The best way to rub into the face of the naysayers is this little gem from Scott Otts.
Even CNN is handling the vote as a success. I guess the bandwagon will soon fill.
Don’t gloat? I’m gonna gloat like a Queen Bitch. Paint yourself purple, dance naked on top of a harpsichord type gloating.
Yes sir.
Remember, and be sure to remind every one of them, that this little affair is “not in their name”.
Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful, and yet again, wonderful.
–William Shakespeare
I long ago predicted that a lot of people will eventually pretend that they always supported the war in Iraq. The second domino has fallen. Iraqis in Syria also voted. This should give their neighbors something to think about. Syria may be the third domino. And in some ways perhaps the Palestinians are already the latest domino! The jury, however, is still out on that one.
I also wonder if Mickey Kaus, Daniel Drezner, and few other of the Kerry supporters now feel embarrassed? Mickey Kaus recently has been severely criticizing Andrew Sullivan. Could it be that Kaus realizes his foolishness in supporting Kerry? How much did “excitable Andrew” have to do with his earlier decision?
Okay, so there are the obligatory caveats: the turnout figures could be totally invented, the Sunni turnout was low, what next?, etc., etc. These are real issues to ponder and worry about.
But screw that for now. It’s a beautiful day. You just can’t help feeling hopeful and buoyant and heck, giddy about the fact that the election went off with high turnout (numbers aside, it seems well agreed-upon that lots of people showed up) and a minimum of violence. It really did bring tears to my eyes (which makes me feel like a sap, but hey, why not?). This could be the beginning of something magnificent. Only the beginning, yes, but a wonderful, optimistic beginning.
And instead of being infuriating, it was actually enjoyable to see John Kerry go on to make an utter ass of himself on Meet The Press for an entire mind-numbing hour. Russert has that way of feeding you the rope for your own noose.
That fellow RantWraith (linked by Instapundit) had four words that really do say it well:
THE FASCISTS ARE F**KED.
Via the Captains-quarters:
Nationwide: 72%
Baghdad: 80%
South: 92%
Najaf: 80%
Karbala: 90%
Awesome, just Awesome………
And a big shout out to you Roger also – for being one of the “keepers of the flame”!
“The world will little note nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living rather to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here
dedicated to the great task remaining before us–that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion–that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain, that this nation under God shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the earth.”
Thank God for the brave Iraqis. Thank God for our incredible troops. Let’s especially remember the families today of those killed or wounded in the cause of Liberty. Thank God for our steadfast and courageous President.
Oh, and by the way. John Kerry and Teddy Kennedy–you can go to hell.
Something wrong; might be a local cable snafu in my town. No networks appear to be covering the civil war in Iraq. But maybe it’s a time zone issue; wasn’t it getting underway at 11:00 EST, or was it CST?
And meanwhile, Mubarak is making noises about his desire to seek presidency for the 6th time and says that the system whereas the parliament gets to choose the president is working great.
And it seems that El Jefe Bush will make his statements at 1pm EST. Stay tuned . . .
O wonderful, wonderful, and most wonderful wonderful, and yet again wonderful, and after that, out of all hooping!
–William Shakespeare
Sorry about the previous misquote, Will. The excitement and all. Ah heck, I know you – of all people – will understand.
FABULOUS!!!
Just woke up and am amazed and happy and proud. They really are Iraq the Model. I can feel now the ripples of excitement across the Arab world.
I hooping and hollering and yelling to all who can hear!
A’ash Al Iraq, A’ashat America, A’ash Al Tahaluf
Here is video from Kurdish Satellite TV showing voting in Kurdistan overlaid with patriotic music. I think it is streaming live so you might hear some people talking for a while but they intersperse it withvoting, Hat tip to Jim Ribbons at the Corner.
We are all Iraqis now!
What a wonderful day! I’ve had tears in my eyes as I looked at some of the pictures from the polling places in Iraq. Looks like the turnout everywhere exceeded expectations.
Meanwhile, John Kerry downplays the election and says, “This is–not may be–this is the last chance for the president to get it right.” When is this man with a thirty-year track record of getting it wrong going to shut up? I don’t expect him to acknowledge his past mistakes, or to admit he and his party have been wrong about Iraq, but can’t he just be quiet?
Sigh, it’s a great, great day. Take a look at these photos from Kevin McCullough (via Captain’s Quarters) http://www.crosswalk.com/news/weblogs/kmc/?cal=go&adate=1%2F30%2F2005 – it truly tugs on the heartstrings (aw heck, it brings tears to my eyes) then scroll down for a dose of humility regarding the ACTUAL voter turnout in the US. (For SHAME!) And John Kerry proves himself a greater ass every time he is allowed to speak in public. I’m so tired of nay-sayers.
Gee, I wonder if we’ll see more of those frowning morons on those “I’m sorry” websites?
‘I’m sorry Iraq. We Lefties and Bush-haters tried to keep you in brutal slavery because we wanted to defeat Bush more than we cared about our national security or human freedom.’
I wonder if we’ll see any apologies from the Democrats?
John Kerry sounds like a reactionary jerk.
The reason might well be that he IS a reactionary jerk. Anyway, here he is:
“It is hard to say that something is legitimate when whole portions of the country can’t vote and doesn’t vote,” Kerry said.
I guess when you’re a left-winger, neither evidence nor proper grammar is necessary. He doesn’t even bother to specify which portions of the country “can’t vote and doesn’t vote”. In fairness, this is an AP release, so Sen. Heinz-Kerry may have said something somewhat different, like “I like the Patriots by three in the Super Bowl.”
If this is an accurate quote, however, he is, in fact, talking like the reactionary jerk that he is, and using worse grammar than that for which left-wingers criticize the President.
Fortunately, comic strips are drawn in advance, so we have Trudeau and McGruder on record with their thoughts on the coming election. Doonesbury, Boondocks. I feel a gloat coming on. These pathetic souls will live on in infamy.
Congratulations and thank you to all freedom seeking Iraqis. Congratulations on this magnificent achievement and thank you for giving Kerry/Kennedy/Biden/Boxer et al the PURPLE FINGER!
Big losers today – Administration of the University of Michigan (employers of Juan Cole) and Teddy Kennedy’s cardiologist (it will be hard to keep the Senator on his diet after his humiliation).
I kept hearing about the 100,000 + Iraqi security forces protecting the polls and voters. I think that qualifies Joe (4,000 trained Iraqi’s) as one of the big losers also. I hope someone rubs his nose in that.
Afghanistan
America
Iraq
Hat Trick for George!
This day is called the feast of Crispian:
He that outlives this day, and comes safe home,
Will stand a tip-toe when the day is named,
And rouse him at the name of Crispian.
He that shall live this day, and see old age,
Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours,
And say ‘To-morrow is Saint Crispian:’
Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars.
And say ‘These wounds I had on Crispin’s day.’
Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot,
But he’ll remember with advantages
What feats he did that day: then shall our names.
Familiar in his mouth as household words
Harry the king, Bedford and Exeter,
Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester,
Be in their flowing cups freshly remember’d.
This story shall the good man teach his son;
And Crispin Crispian shall ne’er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remember’d;
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne’er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition:
And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin’s day.
If CNN is reporting 72% turnout then the actual number will undoubtedly be well over 80%. After all, what else in Iraq have they been accurate or honest about?
“It is hard to say that something is legitimate when whole portions of the country can’t vote and doesn’t vote,” Kerry said.
So, is he comparing his election loss to the rejection of the terrorist and reactionary Baathists? I sense a connection.
We were talking about the election at breakfast this morning, when my seven-year-old son chimed in to say, “I hope the Democrats lose!” (We raise ‘em right in our household.) I had to explain to him that the Democrats were not running in this election – but then it occurred to me that yes, the Democrats did lose today. The party of Teddy Kennedy, Barbara Boxer, Michael Moore, Howard Dean, and all others who have bet their party’s future on the victory of fascism in Iraq: they lost big today.
What a sad requiem for the once-great party of Jackson, FDR, Truman, and JFK.
My little rub will be to dip my index finger in ink. Any negative comments from my unenlightened associates will elicit “the finger” from me.
I’m guessing that those who have heard about the success of the Iraqi people in their election will be offering me a different finger in return.
Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.
Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.
Never give in–never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.
We shall not fail or falter; we shall not weaken or tire…Give us the tools and we will finish the job.
I was just fishing around, and saw on Fisk’s website a list of stories that were posted. Get a load of this negativity:
Iraqi voters stream to polls as 33 die
Rice tells Iraqis there are tough days ahead
Iraq poll turnout hits 72 percent
Iraqis brave bombs to vote in their millions
‘What a bloody charade’
At least 20 Iraqis killed in election attacks
Most Iraqis won’t vote, says president
Poll won’t end Iraq violence, says officials
Suicide bomber kills eight in Baquba
Streets barricaded as Iraq braces for poll
Car bomb explodes near Iraq polling station
Iraqis in Egypt cast symbolic votes
Iraqis stock up the pantry as tension rises
Iraqi men learn combat skills on mean streets
Al-Qaeda warns Allawi of ‘angel of death’
Four killed in Baghdad car bomb
Voting opens in Jordan for Iraqi elections
Deadly attacks plague Iraq ahead of elections
Bloody day in Iraq as 36 US soldiers die
31 die in deadliest US military crash in Iraq
Three car bombs rock Iraqi town
‘No time to set up ballot box for Saddam’
US convoy bombed in Baghdad
Video appears to show kidnapped American
Oppressed Iraqi women afraid of voting – NGO
Judge gunned down in Baghdad
Freed Chinese hostages in good spirits
Bush wants more money for military ops
Video shows man’s execution in broad daylight
Car bomb wounds 10 in Baghdad
Zarqawi urges Sunnis to fight ‘infidel’ poll
Baghdad airport to be closed over poll period
Mosque bomb kills 14 ahead of election
Car bomb at Shi’a mosque leaves 14 dead
Eleven killed in Shi’a mosque bombing
Militants promise long war as Bush takes vow
Chinese families plea for return of hostages
26 killed in increasing Iraqi violence
Car bombs kill 26 as polls draw near
Bomb blasts echo across Baghdad
Ok, I want to see how large this guy’s crib and diapers are … and did his nanny toss his nucky? Man is he cranky!
“I can feel now the ripples of excitement across the Arab world.”
Let’s hope they aren’t furious about the sight of the first ever Shia-dominated government in the Arab world. It wasn’t worth close to 2000 American, British, Polish, Italian, and other deaths but I hope it works out. Should the Sunni insurgents continue their dirty deeds I wonder how the now legitimate Shia majority government will react. It was just reported on the BBC that in Basra they are already saying it is time for the British troops to leave. Given the lack of strength of the Iraqi forces I take it the government itself won’t be asking for a foreign troop withdrawal.
“It is hard to say that something is legitimate when whole portions of the country can’t vote and doesn’t vote,” Kerry said.
If the anti-democratidc forces had had a mandate from a majority constituency it would have been to their advantage to take part.Obvioulsy they have no real support hence the use of terror.
BTW Can we now call the Ba’athist holdouts,Jihadis,assorted gangsters and their western supporters what they are anti-democratic?
I was looking at news stories on Google news and found this story from New Zealand.
The euphoria shown by Iraqi exiles as they voted in foreign countries is absent in Iraq.
I wonder which election they’re watching?
Does Kerry think we are completely stupid? Or is he stupid? It’s hard to decide. Anyone with the slightest knowledge of American democracy knows that a turnout near 70% is very high. In fact, a 60% turnout is high. Kerry seems like an infant who has lost his toy.
PeterUK – Well written!
Heh.
If we’re doing quotes, here’s a favorite of mine from Macaulay’s essay on Milton:
We’re an erudite bunch at Roger’s place!
I posted about Kerry’s statement in a new feature I’m calling “Gallery of Political Wet Blankets #1″
Hey, it works for Lileks!
Link:
http://shortfinal.blogspot.com/2005/01/gallery-of-political-wet-blankets-1.html
Coisty:
It wasn’t worth close to 2000 American, British, Polish, Italian, and other deaths
Well, they were better men than yourself, so perhaps it was worth it to them and their families. They have our honor and respect. As for yourself…
I may as well link it.
“Let’s hope they aren’t furious about the sight of the first ever Shia-dominated government in the Arab world. It wasn’t worth close to 2000 American, British, Polish, Italian, and other deaths but I hope it works out.”
With all respect, Coisty, I don’t think you really do. Also, compared with the figures of many important wars which I hope you support (WWII), those numbers are tiny.
I hear the total may be more like 60% turnout, still very good.
I just posted this over at Tim Blair’s but if anyone here wants to add to the list, feel free…
To the ladykiller Ted Kennedy
To the truthkiller John Kerry
To the pimple-popping Aaron McGruder
To Robert ìwhatís that nigra doing there? She what?!î Byrd
To Botox Barb Boxer
To the rest of the Condoleeza 13 (donít worry, weíll remember your names when the time comes)
To Nancy *stare* Pelosi
To Kos (screw you, too, buddy) Moulitsas
To Andrew Sullivan (this ainít a damn Starbucks. Make up your mind!)
(listed in order of importance)
To George Soros
To ANSWER
To MoveOn
To the Democratic Party
To the New York Times
To the LA Times
To the Boston Globe
To Dan Rather, Chris Hayward and Les Moonves
To Michael (remember me?) Moore
To Alec Baldwin
To Sean Penn
To Tim Robbins
To Susan Sarandon
To Barbra Streisand
To the Dixie Chicks (howís that rock career workiní out?)
To the senescent hippies and snotnosed punks still living with their parents who march across the street from me every Friday (clue: assholesÖ there were more than three folk songs ever written. Learn some new ones)
In the words of those two great lefties from the 70ís, Proctor and Bergman:
EVERYTHING YOU KNOW IS WRONG
Not in your name? Damn straight
ìWhat a sad requiem for the once-great party of Jackson, FDR, Truman, and JFK.î
ìWe were talking about the election at breakfast this morning, when my seven-year-old son chimed in to say, “I hope the Democrats lose!”î
Will Senator Joseph Libermann decide to leave the Democratic Party? Is it finally dawning upon him that the corruption is too pervasive? What about the issues where Libermann disagrees with President Bush? A large number of Republicans share Libermannís overall positions.
Coisty:
“It wasn’t worth close to 2000 American, British, Polish, Italian, and other deaths”.
So how many deaths is the liberation of 24 million people from a brutal tyrannical regime worth?
1000? 500? 100? 10? 0?
Was the number of casualties in our own revolution worth the result? How about the staggering number lost defeating Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan?
All youíve demonstrated is the low value you place on freedom and an obvious craven cowardice and selfishness.
Coisty–I presume you are not including the Iranian government in the Arab world–but thats a quibble compared to your appalling sense of values: if you dont think 2000 deaths, no matter how tragic they are, is worth the ability of 30 million to establish their own destiny, then I really wouldnt want you in my foxhole.
coisty:
From time to time I actually agree with what you have to say but your remarks were so remarkably offensive I don’t know how to respond.
I think if we can live in a world in which the Irish are allowed to vote somehow someway we can survive this. Shia are not all the same, anymore than Sunni and Shia are the same because they are both Muslim.
Maybe you would prefer we just kill them all or fiond some nice Sunni strong man to do it for us. We all know where that got us, now don’t we? The Shia are the mojority of the population so maybe we smart white westerners should just obliterate all of them and be done with it.
I say give them a chance.
Apologies for multiple posts, but who will be the first to photoshop a purple ink stained finger, reverse two digits, and present to to the list of idiots so nicely enumerated by Richard McEnroe above?
Now, now folks, let’s not pick on Coisty. He/She has had a very bad year. It’s just not going their way.
Well, I didn’t stay awake late or rise early to witness the Iraqi elections. And I take whatever I see on any news channel with a grain of salt, but…
The current turnout estimates are 60%. In the “most divisive election ever!” we Americans only turned out 60%. That’s with nobody threatening to kill us for voting. To those Iraqis who voted – you are brave people. Now the hard part begins; making a workable government that serves your nation rather than some narrow interest group. Good luck and godspeed.
I just clicked through some of the newscasts and saw the “Iraqi Street” dancing in joy. Will this become the new image of the “Arab Street” over the next decade or two? Once can only hope, but it sure would be a far more pleasant and positive image than the hateful, murderous lunacy image we’ve had of the “Arab Street” over the past few decades. How anyone could prefer that over what they see today is beyond me.
David Thomson ó Why on earth would the Republicans want him?
I hope these figures prove to be correct. In any event, it does bring tears to your eyes. And the quote from Macaulay is about as perfect as can be.
Even if the results are exaggerated, they still indicate incredible success. The so-called progressives are doomed. And the reigning despots. (Democracy? There goes the neighborhood!). And Americans are once more in fashion. And George’s face qualifies to go up on Mt Rushmore. Yes!
ìDavid Thomson ó Why on earth would the Republicans want him?î
Senator Joseph Libermann supports President Bush on the war on terror. Thatís enough for me. On top of that, itís time that a number of ìminorityî voters reevaluate their normal knee jerk support of the Democratic Party. For far too long, a huge number of American Jews have not gotten past the ìGentleman’s Agreementî era of American history. And numerous Hispanics, Asians, and blacks have simply taken it for granted that the Democratic Party best represents their interests. If Libermann leaves the Democratic Party—it will no longer be able to take these voting blocs for granted. Life will never be the same again.
We should also remember that it was not just the Shia that voted today. The Kurds, the Assyrian Christians and even some brave Sunni came out.
I hope they will be successful in the future when they write their Cosntitution and I think every effort should be made to include all the Iraqis in that process. They can have representation without a majority. Alaska has as many Senators as California and I think a concerted effort ot guarantee minority rights will help.
And Coisty…we lost 3,000 people on a beautiful Tuesday morning just sticking with the status quo. I would say it was time for a change.
Anyone else on the way to Office Depot for a washable purple marker and a purple index finger? Good for a week of public statement, at least.
Dave Thomson ó My apologies. Brain fart on my part and I thought you wrote “Senator Biden.” Lieberman would definitely be more tolerable, tho his conduct regarding the Arthur Andersen accounting firm was pretty questionable.
What’s going through the minds of the “insurgent” leadership right now? It must be something like the scene from the original “Shape of Things to Come” where the Big Boss is standing in the ruins shouting “Shoot! Shoot! You’ve never shot enough!”
President Bush just spoke. He looked very happy, as well he should.
Congratulations to the courageous and determined people of Iraq. It’s dawn in the Middle East and the people of a free and democratic Iraq will lead their brothers into the light of a new day. Thank you to everyone everywhere who made this day possible and, in particular, to the men and women of the US armed forces.
As for Senators Kerry, Kennedy and Boxer and the rest of the losers on richard mcenroe’s list: “You have no power here! Now Begone, before somebody drops a house on you!”
Thank the Lord for the courage of our President and his administration who withstood the abuse and cynicism of many Democrats and the mainstream media, our troops who gave their lives, honor and valor, and the brave people of Iraq who risked the wrath of the terrorists to vote. These are freedom’s real champions.
Friends of Democracy is on C-SPAN right now discussing the elections.
As I posted on another thread:
El Salvador, Nicaragua, Timor, Afghanistan, Iraq. All nations that managed to successfully vote through great violence and threats of violence. The list is growing.
They died ñ and now we sneer
By Leo McKinsry
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml;sessionid=50JH40NH4QHI1QFIQMFCM54AVCBQYJVC?xml=/opinion/2005/01/30/do3002.xml&sSheet=/opinion/2005/01/30/ixopinion.html
If you think the Iraqis will be any more grateful to the US and UK than the French have been the last half century you’re nuts.
Paul – “So how many deaths is the liberation of 24 million people from a brutal tyrannical regime worth?”
You mean the lives of working class West Virginians, Oklahomans and others deemed by America’s elite to be disposable. Their lives given up for people on the other side of the world whom they know nothing about. Paul, are you willing to sacrifice your life or the lives of your loved ones for a universalist ideology? Unless you are posting from Iraq, I guess not. Laptop bombardier, eh? World revolution was bad enough when Trotsky and other socialist mass murderers were advocating it, it is so sad to see American “conservatives” falling for it.
An Iraqi on the phone w/ Friends of Democracy, identified as Omar (ITM?) just said that the violence was much lower than expected. He was followed by “Mohammad in Baghdad”. He walked 2Km to vote. Does anyone know if the ITM brothers have been on the phone with FoD?
I walked 2 blocks and waited about an hour. Makes you realize what people are willing to do to vote. One can only hope the Dems will come to the same realization.
Coisty – “Let’s hope they aren’t furious about the sight of the first ever Shia-dominated government in the Arab world. It wasn’t worth close to 2000 American, British, Polish, Italian, and other deaths but I hope it works out.”
JK Ribera – “With all respect, Coisty, I don’t think you really do.”
What do you base that snide remark on? I see the US as the last hope for the West. I want it to get out of the Iraq mess before anymore of its strength is sapped. But, obviously, if Iraq were to deteriorate into complete civil war that would not be good for any of us.
RogerA – “Coisty–I presume you are not including the Iranian government in the Arab world”
Why would I include non-Arabs? I’ve known enough Arabs to know they generally don’t care much about Iranians.
RogerA – “if you dont think 2000 deaths, no matter how tragic they are, is worth the ability of 30 million to establish their own destiny, then I really wouldnt want you in my foxhole.”
I doubt if many of the American soldiers joined up to fight for foreign countries. I suspect most are patriots who wanted to defend the US. Just like the Red Army during WW2 it is appeals to patriotism, not ideology, that get people to give up everything in war. What foxhole have you been fighting in of late?
Coisty, your comments about the military reveal your incredible lack of knowledge about the reasons people join. In addition, you insult all of the members of the military past and present by assuming that only stupid, gullible people who don’t know any better join up.
And please point to links that show that America’s “elite” (whoever that may be) believe the lives of soldiers to be “disposable.” Based on your comments, it is people like you who have no respect for working class people.
Coisty, every serviceman and woman I know – especially the ones who have served in Iraq – sneer at people like you.
Coisty:
“You mean the lives of working class West Virginians, Oklahomans and others deemed by America’s elite to be disposable.”
In other words easily manipulated dumb hicks that don’t know they’re pawns in the hands of their evil neocon masters?
Those brave soldiers VOLUNTEERED to join the armed forces, and I would love to watch you tell them to their faces how feeble minded and gullible they are.
” Paul, are you willing to sacrifice your life or the lives of your loved ones for a universalist ideology?”
Umm, if the “ideology” is freedom the answer is yes, in a heartbeat. I have a whole host of dead Scotch-Irish ancestors who have provided me with an honorable example of how to die. Having faced the prospect of death by cancer in the dreary four walls of a surgical recovery room (I’m eight years cancer free so far), I can’t imagine a better way to die than in defense of my family, my culture, my nation, and freedom everywhere.
Don’t project your shameful cowardice and weakness on me, little man.
promoguy – “Now, now folks, let’s not pick on Coisty. He/She has had a very bad year. It’s just not going their way”
Actually things are going exactly the way I suspected they would. You’re the ones who were surprised when it wasn’t a cakewalk and now you’re the ones clinging to the elections because of the lack of WMDs.
I was reading the pro-war press (though not this blog) in the build-up to the war when WMD and Saddam’s non-existent links to 9/11 were far more prevalent than democracy. Of course, the architects of the optional war with Saddam tend to be militant ideologues who wanted to remake the Middle East from the getgo. They just couldn’t come out and say that as they knew patriotic Americans wouldn’t have fallen for the idea of getting kids from the heartland (though few from Manhattan and the suburbs of Washington DC) killed for some grand plan that had little to do with US vital interests. Charles Krauthammer said last night on Fox that his son is attending some university in the North east (Harvard?) and Michael Ledeen’s grown-up children have been shown on this blog. If Iraq is sooooo important why aren’t they in Fallujah right now? I checked this and other pro-war blogs the other day when over 30 US troops were killed and there was no mention of it! Too inconvenient, I guess. I wonder if their parents and wives are as giddy as you all are today.
Another tragedy is that Iran may be an actual threat to the world unlike Iraq. But after all the lies no one outside the US (not to mention many in the US) will believe anything Bush has to say about Iranian nukes, and the US is unlikely to have the stomach for taking on Iran after the catastrophe that Iraq has been. A nuclear armed Iran may be another consequence of the Iraq war. So celebrate all you want today but some of us are too concerned about the future to engage in partisan point scoring and gloating about the relative success of today’s election.
Coisty: to answer your question re foxholes, it was in Viet Nam in 1969 and 1970–and it was sanctimonious twits like you who, in opposing the war then, led to the deaths of huge numbers of peoples. You know little of motivates soldiers. I spent 25 years in the regular army and know very well what motivates soldiers–I can’t say the same about you.
Roberts – “Coisty, every serviceman and woman I know – especially the ones who have served in Iraq – sneer at people like you.”
They do when they are in a war as it’s necessary to believe you and your colleagues are suffering for a worthwhile cause. But years down the road when their wounds are making their lives miserable and Americans have forgotten Iraq I wonder if deep down they’ll still feel their sacrifices were worth it.
“But years down the road when their wounds are making their lives miserable and Americans have forgotten Iraq I wonder if deep down they’ll still feel their sacrifices were worth it.”
Please dont project your views on those fine young men and women. I find that the must repugnant thing you have said so far.
Random thoughts:
For once, Nancy Pelosi’s perpetually startled expression must be an entirely accurate reflection of her emotions.
Those of a malicious bent (*coughs*) should check out Democratic Underground, whose posters couldn’t be more stunned and depressed if someone had just proven that Karl Marx had had a retirement account at Fidelity.
Ted Kennedy (D-runk, MA) suggests that the US should remove some troops now. Since Teddy is a totally reliable anti-authority, someone who along with his junior colleague has consistently been on the wrong side of history, without further analysis we can now exclude that as a sensible option.
To Senators Boxer, Biden, Kerry, and most especially Kennedy, the words of Oliver Cromwell to the Rump Parliament are especially apropos:
What a wonderful day. As the Z-man says, “By God, this is suffocation!” He must be pretty ticked off today. Good.
Occam’s Beard,
Not quite yet. Let Sheets Byrd, the Hero of Chappaquidick, Dumber’n a Boxer Rocks, the author of My Cambodian Christmas and Mad Dog Dean remain the face of the party for a bit longer. Under Sauron’s unblinking eye, of course. Say two more election cycles. That should just about do the trick.
Rick,
You’ve got a point. You’d think those worthies would resign from embarrassment, but I guess if they could be embarrassed they’d have dropped dead long ago.
I want me some of that blue ink.
Roger, might I humbly suggest you promote a “Solidarity with the Iraqi Voter” day, where those who really do want to celebrate the points scored by Democracy in Iraq.
Nanny nanny boo boo, coisty.
Roger:
What a great morning! Perfect, of course not but a very good start. And the prophet of doom Kerry is to stupid to shut up. He bet the farm in the presidential election that he could run on a ABB platform and like a gambler on a losing streak he is still chasing his losses at the same table. He has to question the legitamancy of the election because he has nothing else but the failure in Iraq to run on. He knows that if a stable Iraqi government is formed his chance of running in 2008 is over. So he is forced to become the cheerleader for the Sunni rejectionists. The Sunni’s will eventually realize that they will have to join the government in some fashion and that is when they will stop their support for the terrorists. The fact that Kerry is becoming an apologist for the people who threatened to chop the heads off of anyone who voted is disgusting.
Occam: thanks for quoting the dour Oliver’s instructions to the rump parliament. Lady Antonia Fraser’s wonderful history, “Cromwell, the Lord Protector,” is a gold mine of other Cromwell trivia. More important, those debates surrounding the protectorate put forward by the roundheads and cavaliers, are really pivotal to understanding the evolution of American democracy, but that is another story altogether.
Apropros Rick Ballard’s comment, the longer these reactionaries remain in the Congress the stronger the hold the Republican’s have on the congress. I am reminded of Mark Twain’s words that “Congress is America’s only true criminal class.”
“the longer these reactionaries remain in the Congress the stronger the hold the Republican’s have on the congress.”
Shhh, it’s supposed to be secret – arl-Kay ove-Ray says I shouldn’t have mentioned it.
Coisty:
We have Congressmen with sons in the service, some of who have served in Iraq. Most of the truly elitist people I know sound more like you than they do like Bush.
But if it were not for the willingness of Americans to fight and die in foreign countries Eruope would be a dim memory now.
BTW when it comes to Saddam and wmd we would not be where we are if it were not for guys like Chirac selling nuclear reactors to guys like Saddam. So whatever problems there may be in the world it would be nice of some of those judgmental dicks out there who helped create the situation also helped clean it up, rahter than just to leave with us to deal with and then bitch about the way we handle it.
Coisty,
It is painfully clear from your posts that you have no idea why American men and women volunteer for the military, why they stay in, or what they are willing to kill and die for. TO be honest, I sincerely doubt you have a clue about what you would be willing to kill and die for and can’t imagine that some people do know. And your thinly disguised chickenhawk nonsense is just plain stupid. Knock off the lame bullshit, you’re better than that. You’re the only regularl lefty loon who shows up here who’s worth the bandwidth bits – don’t botch it with patently preposterous nonsense.
Coisty ó Actually, it turns out the members of Congress have family in Iraq at a rate above that of the rest of the population. Of course, not too many of them probably come from Massachusetts.
Coisty:
I should have mentioned that one of those Congressman is Duncan Hunter.
BTW I was born and raised in Oklahoma. My family are working class and I had two cousins, Kristoffer and Dmitri who served in Iraq.
My cousins Mike and Jack and Ronnie served in Viet Nam.
My Uncle Alton and my Great Uncle Elmo served in Korea.
My father and this three brothers were in WW2. My uncle Robert nearly died liberating ingrate Frenchies.
My great great Uncle Wesley served in WW1.
My great great great grandfathers Frank and Wilson served in the Civil War on opposite sides.
I also had ancestors who served in the war of 1812 and the American Revolution.
So who is the elist here?
Knucklehead ó I’m not sure he has much else left. I’ve certainly seen the Marine helicopter-crash dead mentioned on the pro-Iraq blogs, and he obviously didn’t read even the first paragraph of Roger’s post, “The Numbers Game.”
Time to stop taking Coisty seriously, I think.
BTW, Cliff May of The Corner beat me to the “blue finger of solidarity” idea. Hope it catches on.
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!
So, it’s not very profound, but it’s been running through my head all day!
A’ash al-Iraq!
Brian
OK, that’s gloating!
I’m just sitting here with a big, wide, s***-eating smile on my face.
I can’t stop smiling, as a matter of fact.
Just read the whole Reuters report out loud to my son and told him, “Our country did this.”
Caroline
for being one of the “keepers of the flame”
Yes.
From all of us, I expect.
ahhh–you all are being far to kind to Coisty. The man/woman has no moral compass. If you will permit me a small Viet Nam era war story that bears on the sacrifice of Americans. I am sure you have heard the (largely false) stories that Viet Nam was a war the burdon of which was borne on the backs of the poor–the same tripe that Coisty and his ilk put forward. Scholarly studies have repudiated that view.
If you have been to Georgetown University you may have seen the Joseph M. Lauinger Memorial Library: Joseph Mark Lauinger was my scout platoon leader in Viet Nam and was killed in action on January the 8, 1970. He died in my arms on the dustoff that carried him out. I found out only later that his father was the CEO of Texaco. Joe was was a brilliantly blue eyed, blond haired young lieutanant whose soldiers would have followed him into hell. I nominated him for a distinguished service cross for his actions on the day he was killed. It was downgraded to a Silver Star, but those who served with Joe know of his sacrifice.
So why this personal reminescince? I read the drivel put forward by Coisty who somehow think that all wars are borne on the backs of the poor–who have no idea of the sacrifice of all Americans like Joe (and the three other gallant young men who died under my command); who attribute all evil to our government and mock the men who serve and die. These people are beyond scorn-they are morally bankrupt.
It saddens me in ways I really cannot convey. It speaks to the moral bankruptcy of the American left. Thank God for the Joe Lauingers and the 31 marines and one sailor who died in the helicopter crash that Coisty mocks–and all the other soldiers who died so people can be free. That is a sacrifice that Coisty and his ilk will never understand–and more the pity.
PeterUK
OK, I just read the Crispin speech, and now I’m crying.
But it’s a good crying.
richard:
Yeah it is like the whole lie thing. What lie? The wmd again? Well whose lie was it? The UN’s? And what if we had not gone in? Deufler says six months to mustard gas, 18 months to VX if Saddam had been turned loose. Deal with the bastard now or later. In the meantime we fly the no fly zones, not Canada and not Ireland and not France.
I am so tired of these people acting as if the US is responsible for everything. As if the Europeans did not have the same damn intel and as if the Europeans were not up to their butts in corruption and graft.
The Iranians are the problem but after all the lies about wmd or whatever the inept sanctimonious devious Europeans who are busy kissing the Ayatollah’s ass might not believe us.
What bullshit. They are not going to believe us anyway. If we had found the frigging weapons the paranoid idiots would have just said we planted them or whatever.
I can imagine on the 5th of June 1944 Allied Command deciding France wasn’t worth it and calling the Normandy Landings off,”They’ll never be grateful,may as well go home”.
This would of course meant either the Red Army facing across the channel or the rump of the Third Reich.
In the case of Iraq, either an Iran stretching from Afghanistan to the Mediterranean or the Ba’athist Reich ruling through Saddam then the Brothers Grim for many decades.
It had to be done and it had to be done before the price became too high to pay.
It becomes tedious reiterating that Saddam Hussein fully intended to rebuild his WMD,that he had wherwithall so to do,that the no fly zones and the sanctions were under intense pressure from those benefitting from Oil for Food.That Saddam Hussein’s regime collected the bodies of little children,keeping them refrigerated for the funerals staged for the western media as an example of the results of the wicked sanctions.
Saddam had a grudge,he is an old style mafioso,sooner rather than later, he would have exacted his revenge and he had a whole nation state withwhich to do it.
Paul & Coisty
I have a whole host of dead Scotch-Irish ancestors who have provided me with an honorable example of how to die.
I was about to say the same thing, but Paul beat me to it.
Coisty, I don’t know if you were around for the Scots Irish thread (or Scotch Irish!) . . . but if you weren’t, you might want to read Born Fighting: How the Scots Irish Shaped America by James Webb.
Webb’s book was a revelation to me. For one thing, I discovered that I am Scots-Irish. I had no idea. (It’s worse than I thought, actually. I learned from my mother recently that my ancestors on both sides are from Ulster. As my husband said, “So you got a double whammy.” But I’m afraid it’s my husband who got the double whammy.)
Once you get a sense of who the Scots Irish are, you see the issue of ‘working class Americans the elite sacrifice in war’ differently.
I’m not scandalized by your views. I think it’s perfectly reasonable to feel we don’t have to fight and die for other people’s freedom. I myself feel I’d like to see a lot more fighting from the Iraqi army and a lot less running away under fire.
And I don’t know if the Iraq War was a good idea or a bad idea. History will give us the answer to that. I think history will tell us it was a good idea, but I know for a fact that I can’t predict the future and neither can anyone else. That’s one of the things I like about the future.
One thing I’ve learned since 9/11 is that there really, truly is a difference between natural-born hawks and non-hawks. A core character distinction underlies so many of these debates.
I am a natural born hawk. There’s just no way around it. But I didn’t know that about myself until 9/11.
I didn’t know it on the day of, either. It took time for me to figure it out, and I had to have a lot of battles over politics in the meantime that were often battles over personality, and still are.
The working class people our elites send to war are heavily Scots Irish. Webb says America cannot fight a war without them, and I’m sure he’s right.
They fight because they believe in the cause.
But they also fight because they are fighters.
What I notice especially in statements like these is the glib assumption that there is somewhere, visible only to the Left, a price tag indicating the precise value of the Iraqi people’s being able to choose their own government. And what this price tag actually says is, of course, never stated. But everyone on the Left has seen it and knows that we’ve paid far, far too much.
It doesn’t matter that New Iraq is less than a day old and we have barely begun to see the reactions of the countries surrounding it. It doesn’t matter that we do not know what the election results are yet. It doesn’t matter that this is the start, not the end, of vast changes.
To the Left, these uncertainties have no effect on the price tag that they alone are privileged enough to see.
Catherine:
I heard the Iraqi Army held their ground today. They just have to learn to make a habit of it. The sooner the better.
I wonder if it is cultural?
Don’t fire until you see the whites of their eyes.
I don’t know the future either but democracies don’t go to war with one another. They may disagree but they rarely fight and they rarely kill their own.
Who would have believed 100 years ago that Europe could ever have been this stable?
Catherine:
“They fight because they believe in the cause.
But they also fight because they are fighters. ”
Amen.
–Another tragedy is that Iran may be an actual threat to the world unlike Iraq.–
And conveniently, we’re on both borders.
Coisty, do you have DISH?
9410 is a very interesting channel. There’s a ME roundup after midnight.
Iran back in 2003, before the invasion, showed Afghanistan and Iraq w/Iran in the middle.
They got it back then.
I see I’ve annoyed some of the posters I’ve enjoyed in the 6 or 7 months I’ve been reading this blog. At least one poster assumed I’m a leftist, I’m nothing of the sort. Indeed I hear more left wing rhetoric from the Bushies these days than almost any other source. I want to defeat the Islamists too, I just feel that the Bush Administration, which opposes racial profiling at airports and real immigration reform, is messing up this fight. I still hope the US comes out on top – I shudder to think of what will happen if it doesn’t – but I’ve been studying ME politics since the late 80s and I’m not going to fall for the argument that Iraq had anything to do with 9/11 or Islamic extremism in general. Apparently Wolfowitz wanted to go after Iraq instead of Afghanistan after 9/11! So much for going after terrorists and those who harbour them.
Catherine – “Coisty, I don’t know if you were around for the Scots Irish thread (or Scotch Irish!) . . . but if you weren’t, you might want to read Born Fighting: How the Scots Irish Shaped America by James Webb.”
I’m planning to order the book from Amazon.
Catherine – “Once you get a sense of who the Scots Irish are, you see the issue of ‘working class Americans the elite sacrifice in war’ differently.”
I know all about the Scots Irish, I was born and raised in Belfast, Northern Ireland, and am about as Scots Irish (or Ulster Scots as we’d say) as you can get. I also have relatives living in several parts of the US who’ve become Americans, unlike so many immigrants to the US. I first read American historian James Leyburn’s landmark study The Scotch-Irish: A Social History back in the early 90s. I used to work at the Ulster American Folk Park in Ulster, a museum dedicated to preserving the memory of those people from both Ulster and the south of Ireland who settled much of the US, and helping American visitors trace their roots. I come from what may be the only community in all of western Europe to support George Bush’s re-election – there was even a pro-war demonstration by Ulster Protestants in early 2003 when most of Europe was burning American flags. That despite the fact that Americans like Tip O’Neill, Peter King, Ted Kennedy, and Bill Clinton had used the power of the US state against us. My dad and two of my uncles fought against the IRA in the armed forces only to see a “military commander” of that terrorist group become the Minister of Education (ie in charge of state or Protestant schools) thanks to people like Bill Clinton and the out and out traitor, so beloved by Americans, Tony Blair. I’m afraid to say I see the same thing happening in the US. Decent, patriotic Americans conned by very persuasive media and politicians into throwing away their lives in a war that will have no impact on terrorism. They’ll be forgotten like those killed in Vietnam. I hope I’m wrong, and I do mean that, but I see no evidence to suggest I am.
Terrye – “I heard the Iraqi Army held their ground today. They just have to learn to make a habit of it.”
Good. Let them fight their own wars. The idea that people from small town America should have to die for unsuccessful Arabs or for that matter Europeans is ridiculous.
Terrye – “I don’t know the future either but democracies don’t go to war with one another”
WW1 was an example of the people demanding war more than the governments. I would also consider both sides of the US Civil War to be democracies. Flawed democracies, especially the South, but certainly more democratic than most of the world at the time.
Sandy P – “Coisty, do you have DISH?”
No, but I now get Fox News and I’ve got it on as I type this – Bill O’Reilly just came on.
–They do when they are in a war as it’s necessary to believe you and your colleagues are suffering for a worthwhile cause. But years down the road when their wounds are making their lives miserable and Americans have forgotten Iraq I wonder if deep down they’ll still feel their sacrifices were worth it.–
This pall of Nam crap has affected my entire life.
I refuse to have it taint my child’s as well.
It’s attitudes like that which will make doom the country.
As to your last sentence, you are talking about the WWII vets, aren’t you?
Coisty:
(1)”Decent, patriotic Americans conned by very persuasive media and politicians into throwing away their lives in a war that will have no impact on terrorism.”
(2)”The idea that people from small town America should have to die for unsuccessful Arabs or for that matter Europeans is ridiculous. ”
At least you’re consistent. (2) doesn’t make sense unless you belive in (1).
But (1) is totally absurd. If it were true, Zarqawi wouldn’t be trying so hard to prevent Democracy in Iraq. The WoT is as much a war within Islam and Muslim nations as it is the West against the Islamic totalitarians. When a Muslim nation chooses democracy and freedom, they thumb their noses at the terrorists and thus marginalize them. If fewer and fewer people can be made to believe in what you do, you will have less and less of an effect, and eventually just fade away.
That’s the end goal of the WoT and what happened today in Iraq has put us closer to the ten yard line.
Coisty:
At the end of the 20th century a great deal of study was done on this.
Now you can get snippy if you want but any nations can go to war but democracies rarely go to war with one another and they rarely kill their own people. This is best left to autocratic states and totalitarian states.
The fascists and communists killed more than 100 million people. And I would not really consider many of the Eruopean states of that era to be modern democracies.
And besides all of that Coisty Iraq is sitting on some of the largest oil reserves in the world… to leave that potential in the control of a mafioso with a fondness for chemical weapons and a soft spot for suicide bombers running a country he can only keep control of by terrorizing the population is an obvious recipe for disaster. Saddam tried to kill a president. One of his chemical men was “training” one of the guys who attacked the WTC in 1993. The man was nuts and he had a grudge and I doubt three presidents would have considered him a threat if he were not one. But then what do I know? I am just some gullible working class idiot from Okie land who believes whatever crap them slick smart people wanna cram down my red neck throat.
If Iraq is not worth fighting for why is Iran? Why is it any more of a threat? Are we dealing with degrees of crazy here? And if Iraq had collapsed how long would it have taken Iran to move in?
What strikes me about Europeans is that they always assume their asses are worth saving but nobody else’s is. Speaking of being conned, they love giving advice in spite of their own sorry history and they seem to think Americans owe them something.
And I know you are no lefty. You said nice things about Pat Buhannan. No lefty would do such a thing. I would say you are a righty.
Coisty:
If you can’t see the idea of implanting democracy in Iraq as a, if not the most, logical first step in changing the political dynamic and draining the swamp in the ME…well I guess it’s like those tone deaf people who simply cannot discern the difference between musical pitches.
If you imagine that some sort of police action to go after the perpetrators of 911 alone is an effective strategy to prevent the next attack, or that we cannot disable and break the spine of AQ, while we simultaneously liberate the Iraqi people…well I suggest you stick with checkers and leave chess to the big boys.
If you could actually predict the future as well as you seem to think, you could easily see that had we not gone into Iraq, the oil for palaces scam would continue to be used to bribe the perfidious French, Russians, and Germans to apply pressure to the UNSC to lift sanctions and give Saddam free reign to develop his WMD arsenal, without fear of inspections.
This dangerous scenario would have been profoundly exacerbated by the fact that crazy Qaddafi would still have his surprisingly advanced nuclear weapons program in full operation and A.Q. Khan would still be running his black-market nuclear supermarket. The importance of the disruption of these two sinister operations cannot be emphasized enough, yet the opponents of the war never mention them, because it shatters their “no WMD” meme. Yet only a fool would fail to see that this was of much greater practical value than the discovery of a warehouse full of mustard or saran gas.
With all that oil money and access to off the self nuclear weapon componentry how long before Saddam had the Bomb? How much harder would it be to change the face of the ME with that scenario, as opposed to the one we are facing today?
If we had been attacked again since 911, or it could be conclusively demonstrated that we are in someway more vulnerable now because of our diverting resources to the Iraq war, the war critics might have more credibility. As it is we now have a severely weakened Al Qaida, a nascent democracy in an Arab state to serve as a role model for other backward terrorist producing nations, giving those people a hopeful alternative, and the US military smack dab in the most strategic position in the ME.
I’d say it’s going very well, far better than anyone would have predicted on 9-12-2001. And I know for at least four more years the naysayers, defeatists, America haters, and their ilk can bitch and moan, but they can’t steer us onto the rocks, no matter how hard they try.
I’m not sure of ‘lefty’ and ‘righty’ anymore.
How about ‘innie’ and ‘outie’?
As in we should be in Iraq or get outie?
Sigh.
I’ve been at this way too long.
Paul, Amen. And thank you.
Yeah, Syl, it gets old after a while, doesnít it.
Thank you, Paul.
That’s a keeper for sure.
There were more reasons than WMD for going to Iraq. Reasons enough, in fact, for everyone. Take your pick. Those who complain of no stockpiles can have their complaints, as long as the other reasons aren’t dismissed.
Syl:
How about gonna bitch no matter what so it really does not matter.
So far as I can see the only thing Ireland did for the US was privide us with a lot of immigrants many of which like to fight and drink.
And before I have to get a lecture on the IRA it should be said that it is ok with me to deport them all, after all they are Irish.
My grandparents were Irish, but they over came it.
Terrye
Heh.
You know, I feel so left out. I’m not Scots-Irish. At all.
I’m not Jewish either.
But, like Catherine, I was a born fighter. It must be all the Viking blood. All I remember of my grandparents, and all I’ve heard about their parents before them was fierce individual independence.
It brought them to America.
Syl,
ìYou know, I feel so left out. I’m not Scots-Irish. At all.
I’m not Jewish either. (Ö) It must be all the Viking blood.î
My feelings precisely.
I donít have any of the genetic inheritance mentioned above (at least as far I am aware) so I will simply assume that certain human characteristics – such as being a fighter – are universal.
Syl:
It is not really about being ScotsIrish.
I just get annoyed with extreme right and extreme left [which are getting harder and harder to tell apart] assuming everybody else is stupid or conned somehow screwing up when the truth is they are no more omnipotent than the rest of us.
In other words Coisty could be just as wrong as any of us. And it seems to me that a lot of peeople in the world think Americans have a duty to either save them or represent their views. Well no, our duty is to ourselves and whatever ideas we consider worth fighting for.
If Coisty disagrees, that is Coisty’s problem.
Americans have a duty to either save them or represent their views–
We do represent their views, they’re just too stupid to realize it….
I kill myself sometimes…
– donít have any of the genetic inheritance mentioned above—
Paraphrasing(?) Den Beste: There are Scot-Irish by birth and Scot-Irish by heart.
Unfortunately, I don’t get to gloat–being completely surrounded by people blinded by Bush hatred (my then girlfriend even threatened to break up with me if I voted for him…we’ve since broken up), I’ve kept quiet about my opinions.
Some people have noticed I haven’t attended any rallies or joined in any anti-war discussions, but I haven’t argued pro-war either. For personal safety reasons. The closest I came was to explain to then girlfriend why the charge “no war for oil” makes no sense.
Since I didn’t tell them so then, I don’t get to say “I told you so” now.
byrd:
It is amazing how intolerant the tolerant can be and how dangerous the pacifists can be.
Byrd
A lot of people here came out of the political closet and faced consequencesÖsuch as loss of friends and estrangement from family members.
I would not recommend ìcoming outî in the work environment ñ it may cost you more than it is worth, but I found more often than not that challenging somebody’s ideas in a social setting can be rewarding, even if the reward is somebody only admitting to you: ìI have not thought about it this way beforeî.
There is vast number of people out there who could be won by logical argument and facts ñ but you have to have them on your fingertips, it is critical in any discussion. Unfortunately, there is also vast number of people so ideologically blinded that they would rather die than admit that what they believe ñ it really hinges on belief ñ is wrong.
These are joys and sorrows of principled people being true to themselves