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	<title>Comments on: The Artest Test &#8211; Part II</title>
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	<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/23/the-artest-test-part-ii/</link>
	<description>The blog of the mystery writer, screenwriter and CEO of Pajamas Media</description>
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		<title>By: vegetius</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/23/the-artest-test-part-ii/#comment-29321</link>
		<dc:creator>vegetius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Nov 2004 20:01:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/23/the-artest-test-part-ii/#comment-29321</guid>
		<description>40% of NBA players have a felony rap sheet!!!!!



...and folks still get shocked, shocked, shocked??



Go figure.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>40% of NBA players have a felony rap sheet!!!!!</p>
<p>&#8230;and folks still get shocked, shocked, shocked??</p>
<p>Go figure.</p>
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		<title>By: Barrett</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/23/the-artest-test-part-ii/#comment-29320</link>
		<dc:creator>Barrett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Nov 2004 18:45:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/23/the-artest-test-part-ii/#comment-29320</guid>
		<description>Speaking of Dan Rather....



We now have the beginnings of the whitewashing of Rathergate.  CBS will attempt the long-term rehabilitation of his reputation in exchange for his consent to begin the retirement process in an effort to save what is left of CBS news.



Remember CBS promised an investigaion into what happen in Rathergate and changes to prevent it from ever happening again.  I do not expect to ever get that report.  Do you?


</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of Dan Rather&#8230;.</p>
<p>We now have the beginnings of the whitewashing of Rathergate.  CBS will attempt the long-term rehabilitation of his reputation in exchange for his consent to begin the retirement process in an effort to save what is left of CBS news.</p>
<p>Remember CBS promised an investigaion into what happen in Rathergate and changes to prevent it from ever happening again.  I do not expect to ever get that report.  Do you?</p>
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		<title>By: Barrett</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/23/the-artest-test-part-ii/#comment-29319</link>
		<dc:creator>Barrett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Nov 2004 18:39:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/23/the-artest-test-part-ii/#comment-29319</guid>
		<description>Artest? We are all Artests.



Have you lost your senses?



America is quickly losing its sense of decorum.  Manners and etiquette mean little anymore to major portions of the population.



Professional athletes have been trained to believe that they are exempt from the rules (and laws) that everyone is expected to follow.  Many, not all, would have trouble obtaining gainful employment.  They are over-paid, cry-babies, who are the worst of role models.



Artest and the others should have been banned from the game for life.



And it is not just Artest.  Alan Iverson, Larry Johnson (something like six kids from five different women), Dennis Rodman, Spreewell and others are ruining the game and the sport.  Who would let their kids think that this is how you are supposed to grow up?



Fans who act like this should be ejected.  If they are season ticket holders, they should lose tickets to the remaining games and be banned from purchasing tickets, season or otherwise.  (Yes, they could scalp, but it&#039;s hard to stop everything.)



I would never bring my kids sit in open seats at a professional basketball game.  I do not let them watch it on television out of concern that they may think I condone such behavior.  Golf is about the only major sport where civility, etical behavior and etiquette remain as a part of the game.  (Baseball may qualify too, although the Red Sox looked like they had just been pulled out of a police line-up or fallen off a bar stool before suiting up.  Sorry Boston fans.)






</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Artest? We are all Artests.</p>
<p>Have you lost your senses?</p>
<p>America is quickly losing its sense of decorum.  Manners and etiquette mean little anymore to major portions of the population.</p>
<p>Professional athletes have been trained to believe that they are exempt from the rules (and laws) that everyone is expected to follow.  Many, not all, would have trouble obtaining gainful employment.  They are over-paid, cry-babies, who are the worst of role models.</p>
<p>Artest and the others should have been banned from the game for life.</p>
<p>And it is not just Artest.  Alan Iverson, Larry Johnson (something like six kids from five different women), Dennis Rodman, Spreewell and others are ruining the game and the sport.  Who would let their kids think that this is how you are supposed to grow up?</p>
<p>Fans who act like this should be ejected.  If they are season ticket holders, they should lose tickets to the remaining games and be banned from purchasing tickets, season or otherwise.  (Yes, they could scalp, but it&#8217;s hard to stop everything.)</p>
<p>I would never bring my kids sit in open seats at a professional basketball game.  I do not let them watch it on television out of concern that they may think I condone such behavior.  Golf is about the only major sport where civility, etical behavior and etiquette remain as a part of the game.  (Baseball may qualify too, although the Red Sox looked like they had just been pulled out of a police line-up or fallen off a bar stool before suiting up.  Sorry Boston fans.)</p>
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		<title>By: Vexorg</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/23/the-artest-test-part-ii/#comment-29318</link>
		<dc:creator>Vexorg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Nov 2004 18:18:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/23/the-artest-test-part-ii/#comment-29318</guid>
		<description>If the NBA wants to move up to white-collar criminals, the first thing they&#039;re going to have to do is stop drafting straight out of high school.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the NBA wants to move up to white-collar criminals, the first thing they&#8217;re going to have to do is stop drafting straight out of high school.</p>
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		<title>By: Hogarth</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/23/the-artest-test-part-ii/#comment-29317</link>
		<dc:creator>Hogarth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Nov 2004 17:02:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/23/the-artest-test-part-ii/#comment-29317</guid>
		<description>

I will not be painted with the same brush as indicated in the statement &lt;i&gt;Artest? We are all Artests.&lt;/i&gt;



I recoil at the practice of fans at Ohio State football games booing the opposing team&#039;s BAND for crying out loud.  To me, that crosses a line.



I have seen Mr. Artest, sir, and I&#039;m no Artest.


</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I will not be painted with the same brush as indicated in the statement <i>Artest? We are all Artests.</i></p>
<p>I recoil at the practice of fans at Ohio State football games booing the opposing team&#8217;s BAND for crying out loud.  To me, that crosses a line.</p>
<p>I have seen Mr. Artest, sir, and I&#8217;m no Artest.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Evans</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/23/the-artest-test-part-ii/#comment-29316</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Evans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Nov 2004 16:09:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/23/the-artest-test-part-ii/#comment-29316</guid>
		<description>Former basketball player (at the college level) here and also, fairly big NBA fan.  And as a real fan of the game, I hate to see this thing happen to the Pistons, as they are one of the most team oriented and hard working teams out there.  Their victory over the star studded &quot;me first&quot; Lakers, was vindication for fans who really enjoy seeing a genuine play as a team victory rather than one or two guys and their supporting cast (sorry Roger =x).  I thought Wallace&#039;s suspension was too harsh, considering his only role in the entire debacle was  a hard shove ON the court, not off.



Pacers are another story entirely- when you have a charismatic thug with anger control issues like Artest running your offense,  it tends to rub off on other players.  Look no further then Jermaine O&#039;Neil, as an example, who is a helluva basketball player and has rarely (if ever) been a discipline problem- fortunately for him, the damage to his career won&#039;t be significant.  For Artest, the problem SHOULD be different but it won&#039;t be - even when the Pacers boot him (which they will-if there&#039;s one thing that pisses Larry Bird off, its losing and this year, the blame can be squarely laid at Artest&#039;s feet), somebody will take him- look at Latrell Sprewell-  and therein lies the problem with the NBA-  teams are willing to take on a head case like artest or sprewell, simply in hopes that they&#039;ll win more games.



Bad for the game, overall.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Former basketball player (at the college level) here and also, fairly big NBA fan.  And as a real fan of the game, I hate to see this thing happen to the Pistons, as they are one of the most team oriented and hard working teams out there.  Their victory over the star studded &#8220;me first&#8221; Lakers, was vindication for fans who really enjoy seeing a genuine play as a team victory rather than one or two guys and their supporting cast (sorry Roger =x).  I thought Wallace&#8217;s suspension was too harsh, considering his only role in the entire debacle was  a hard shove ON the court, not off.</p>
<p>Pacers are another story entirely- when you have a charismatic thug with anger control issues like Artest running your offense,  it tends to rub off on other players.  Look no further then Jermaine O&#8217;Neil, as an example, who is a helluva basketball player and has rarely (if ever) been a discipline problem- fortunately for him, the damage to his career won&#8217;t be significant.  For Artest, the problem SHOULD be different but it won&#8217;t be &#8211; even when the Pacers boot him (which they will-if there&#8217;s one thing that pisses Larry Bird off, its losing and this year, the blame can be squarely laid at Artest&#8217;s feet), somebody will take him- look at Latrell Sprewell-  and therein lies the problem with the NBA-  teams are willing to take on a head case like artest or sprewell, simply in hopes that they&#8217;ll win more games.</p>
<p>Bad for the game, overall.</p>
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		<title>By: Silicon valley Jim</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/23/the-artest-test-part-ii/#comment-29315</link>
		<dc:creator>Silicon valley Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Nov 2004 15:30:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/23/the-artest-test-part-ii/#comment-29315</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Artest? We are all Artests.&lt;/i&gt;



No.  That&#039;s simply not true.  There are many abusive fans, and they deserve to be punished.  There are also, however, many of us who attend games, cheer for our team, win gracefully, lose gracefully, and respect other teams and their fans.



To address a different aspect of this:  The team owners can make a difference.  I&#039;m not blaming team owners; blame here belongs to the players and fans.  Owners, nonetheless, can make a big difference in how teams&#039; fans behave, by providing good security, clamping down early on misbehavior, refusing admittance to fans who are already drunk, stopping alcoholic beverage sales well before a game has ended, etc.  Here in the Bay Area, the difference in atmosphere between San Francisco Giants games at Candlestick/3Com (now Monster) Park prior to 2000 and Giants games at Pacific Bell/SBC park since 2000 is astonishing, as if, of course, the difference between 49ers games at Candlestock/3Com/Monster Park and Raiders games at the Oakland/Alameda County/Network Associates Coliseum.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Artest? We are all Artests.</i></p>
<p>No.  That&#8217;s simply not true.  There are many abusive fans, and they deserve to be punished.  There are also, however, many of us who attend games, cheer for our team, win gracefully, lose gracefully, and respect other teams and their fans.</p>
<p>To address a different aspect of this:  The team owners can make a difference.  I&#8217;m not blaming team owners; blame here belongs to the players and fans.  Owners, nonetheless, can make a big difference in how teams&#8217; fans behave, by providing good security, clamping down early on misbehavior, refusing admittance to fans who are already drunk, stopping alcoholic beverage sales well before a game has ended, etc.  Here in the Bay Area, the difference in atmosphere between San Francisco Giants games at Candlestick/3Com (now Monster) Park prior to 2000 and Giants games at Pacific Bell/SBC park since 2000 is astonishing, as if, of course, the difference between 49ers games at Candlestock/3Com/Monster Park and Raiders games at the Oakland/Alameda County/Network Associates Coliseum.</p>
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		<title>By: Howard</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/23/the-artest-test-part-ii/#comment-29314</link>
		<dc:creator>Howard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Nov 2004 15:15:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/23/the-artest-test-part-ii/#comment-29314</guid>
		<description>I played sports through my sophmore college year.  I was as ready to brawl as any jerk on the planet.  We had quite a few fights but always within the confines of the field.  I have only been in front of large crowds like those in Detroit two times and I can tell you that the only thing I remember is fear.  I think most who have played but not well, will tell you of the fear.  I can&#039;t imagine going into a crowd and attacking them, no matter what my punk side told me.



I once spoke to a Notre Dame bench warmer who was on the bench during the famous USC explosion when Anthony Davis launched a comeback from a 28-6 deficit to a 51-28 win with almost all the damage being done in a twenty minute period of time.  The 100,000 crowd noise was so loud that he told me he and every other Notre Dame player was scared to death.  The whole place just shook.



I think that fan behavior is now so over the top that even the top players in the top of sports play &quot;scared&quot; of the crowds.  Players simply react to attacks on them with aggression.  It&#039;s happened at hockey games, basketball games, and at least five major league baseball games in the last few years.



The fan language is so foul that I stopped taking children to games a long time ago.  Artest?  We are all Artests.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I played sports through my sophmore college year.  I was as ready to brawl as any jerk on the planet.  We had quite a few fights but always within the confines of the field.  I have only been in front of large crowds like those in Detroit two times and I can tell you that the only thing I remember is fear.  I think most who have played but not well, will tell you of the fear.  I can&#8217;t imagine going into a crowd and attacking them, no matter what my punk side told me.</p>
<p>I once spoke to a Notre Dame bench warmer who was on the bench during the famous USC explosion when Anthony Davis launched a comeback from a 28-6 deficit to a 51-28 win with almost all the damage being done in a twenty minute period of time.  The 100,000 crowd noise was so loud that he told me he and every other Notre Dame player was scared to death.  The whole place just shook.</p>
<p>I think that fan behavior is now so over the top that even the top players in the top of sports play &#8220;scared&#8221; of the crowds.  Players simply react to attacks on them with aggression.  It&#8217;s happened at hockey games, basketball games, and at least five major league baseball games in the last few years.</p>
<p>The fan language is so foul that I stopped taking children to games a long time ago.  Artest?  We are all Artests.</p>
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		<title>By: JBR</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/23/the-artest-test-part-ii/#comment-29313</link>
		<dc:creator>JBR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Nov 2004 15:08:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/23/the-artest-test-part-ii/#comment-29313</guid>
		<description>An NRO reader made an excellent point about Artest.  He walked away from a fight with Wallace, a fellow huge guy who pushed him hard, but he had no trouble smacking a much smaller fan who threw beer on him.  Classy guy.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An NRO reader made an excellent point about Artest.  He walked away from a fight with Wallace, a fellow huge guy who pushed him hard, but he had no trouble smacking a much smaller fan who threw beer on him.  Classy guy.</p>
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		<title>By: Wallace</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/23/the-artest-test-part-ii/#comment-29312</link>
		<dc:creator>Wallace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Nov 2004 15:07:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/23/the-artest-test-part-ii/#comment-29312</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m sure that now we&#039;ll see a better class of felons playing in the NBA. Perhaps they could concentrate on recruiting white collar criminals.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sure that now we&#8217;ll see a better class of felons playing in the NBA. Perhaps they could concentrate on recruiting white collar criminals.</p>
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