I did not have time this afternoon to respond to your latest and I am sure like most people you are off watching the debate. I am skipping the video portion and sticking to the blog/text version. In the mean time I will address your misrepresentations.

First of all I don’t know where you get the idea that I support the idea of an alliance with Milosevic. I specifically said that instead of putting together a so-called multi-cultural state that would not work that the country should have split along ethnic lines and merged with Croatia and Serbia and leaving Bosnia to the Muslim areas alone. You know “The Religion of the Prince is the Religion of the People” (Martin Luther) I did say that if you were a Jew or a Roma Milosevic was a better bet and if you look at where the Jews of Tito’s Yugoslavia ended up after the war it was mostly in Serbia.

Second, despite what the MSM put out and of course Steven Schwartz keeps propagandizing, the Muslim population of Bosnia cannot be describe as the most secular Muslim group in the world. That is because communist Yugoslavia enforced secularism among all ethnic groups. The Muslim were not secular by choice. They were secular by decree. Like all the peoples of the former Communist nations, the Muslims were undergoing a rediscovery of their own heritage. A separate Bosnian identity is a Muslim identity.

Third, the fact is that Kennedy-Kerry wing of the party has no problems with genocidal dictators as long as they are communists. The MSM and other opponents of Serbia reconstructed Milosevic’s identity as a Nationalist/Fascist. That simply was wrong. Milosevic was Stalinist, and like Stalin, promoted nationalism in crisis. He and his party remain Marxist in orientation. Had this reconstruction not occurred then there would have been signifant opposition from the “peace” wing of the Democratic party to any US intervention against Serbia.

I am glad to see that you have read a stack of books on the Balkans. I haven’t read quite that many. Just 3 or 4. However, If you have not read Ivo Andric’s “The Bridge on the Drina” then you reading is deficient. You cannot understand the Balkan wars without reading this book. If you don’t know its a work of fiction for which Andric won the Nobel Prize for Literature.

Despite the stack of Balkan books that you have read you still donít know what you donít know. However, it would seem that judging from your posts that there is still an entire world of things you donít know that you could know from reading open sources. Much of the negative aspects of both Bosnian Muslims and Kosovar Albanians are all available in the open source. I suggest you read the Dutch Parliamentary report on Srebenica and the transcripts from Milosevicís trial in the Hague on the conduct of the Serbian counterinsurgency operations that took place July-November 1998. In the later key testimony from Key prosecution witnesses proved that Serb forces followed the law of armed conflict in almost all cases. In a UN report (public domain) published in early 1999 estimated that about 1000 people on each side died during the conflict. What was interesting that the report showed a majority of Serbs (and other non Albanian deaths were civilians, while most of the Albanians killed were insurgents. The ratios were not quite as extreme as they are in Infitada but trend the same direction.

The Balkan wars were the first chance that Europe had to show it was capable of policing its own house. Europe showed itself as incapable of acting responsibly in 1990 as in did prior to WWI. When European failed they did what they always do. The dial 1-800-USARMY for help.

Hint: Cheney

Mogwai, that’s a pretty harsh accusation; you have any proof?

Believe it or not, the fact that someone’s name was withheld is not proof it was Cheney.

I don’t know if I’d agree — but what I do know is that Jerry very likely has better data that either of us. But calling him a “right wing Ramsey Clark” seems excessive.

Given Clinton’s record, I don’t find it hard to believe that he sided with the Even Worse Guys against the Bad Guys because it seemed the best PR option.

I’m also, by the by, one of the folks who helped invent that classified version of the Internet to which Jerry alludes.

I’ve had exactly the experience Jerry talks about — the inability to tell a damn fool why you know he’s a damn fool, because the basis for that opinion is classified.

What I can tell you, though, is this: I’d not want to be the person betting against Jerry’s knowledge of the situation.

I hate saying this sort of thing, but I feel I must in this case. I’ve read a stack of books about three feet high about the Balkan conflict. I probably know more about it than the overwhelming majority of people who post here. I’m not trying to brag or pull rank, and I apologize for even saying this. But I need to counter the suggestion that I’m absorbing a bunch of “spin” from the mainstream media. I’ve learned almost nothing about the Balkans from the media.

I’m sure Jerry knows things about it that I don’t know. But he also said this: Had folks like Kennedy and Kerry really understood the pedigree of our “allies” they would have opposed the war and supported Milosevic.

Am I misunderstanding something? Has Jerry wandered into Noam Chomsky and Ramsey Clark territory? Or is he saying the Democrats would have been that stupid if they knew what he knows?

If I misunderstand what Jerry said, fine. I take back what I said and apologize. But it looks to me like he’s saying we should have allied ourselves with Slobo.

Just as a side note, I’d take out the qualifier: Jerry’s a real intelligence officer, I’m a theory geek.

After the visit, I decided to carefully read this thread in order to review their discussion and to see if there was something that I had missed.

The critical posts appears to be jerry’s 10-7 12:13PM text and Totten’s 10-7 1:13PM reply.

An excerpt from jerry’s 12:13PM post:

The rank and file Democrats supported Clinton out of both loyalty and the self-delusion that Milosevic was some how a fascist when in fact he was a Stalinist. The Bosnians, Croatians and the Kosovars were the descendents of the WWII Fascist movements. Had folks like Kennedy and Kerry really understood the pedigree of our “allies” they would have opposed the war and supported Milosevic.

My understanding is that jerry was commenting strictly on the activities in Kosovo, NOT Bosnia-Hercegovinia, as Michael Totten’s 1:13PM post seems to imply. True, most of the Albanian Kosovars (and how many Albanians?) are Muslim, but they are ethnically distinct from the Muslims living in Bosnia. It looks like an important point of distinction that lead to a misunderstanding by the parties involved.

I don’t agree with a formulation that identifies Serbian grievances in Kosovo with the person of Slobodan Milosevic. The Kosovars have proven themselves to be superbly competent in the age-old Balkan game of ethnic-cleansing. And one may sympathize with the plight of innocent Serb civilians living in a sea of Kosovar hostility without endorsing Slobo’s political viability.

Milosevic is a Stalinist and a war criminal. He (at the very least) encouraged ethnic cleansing, fomented war, and authorized violent political oppression. Does anyone disagree?

As strongly as I agree with your quite warranted response to Sandy P, I must just as strongly disagree with your assessment of Jerry. As MRP noted, he is the gold standard (along with Charlie (C)) on this blog regarding intelligence assessments.

The fact that you have apparently bought the assessment promoted by the MSM in favor of Clinton’s Balkan adventure seems a bit strange to me. In reading your blog I have noted that you remain open to the idea that the DNC/MSM’s “quagmire” assessment might not comport wholly with reality with regard to Iraq. Why would you suppose their Clinton Balkan fable to be any more rooted in the “truth”? Lieing by journalists in support of their favorite meme du jour is how they make a living. Rooting out fallacious memes is difficult and the task is not helped by unthinking support by those with the intelligence to discern fact from fantasy.

Perhaps the answer is in Duelfer’s sources, supposedly cooperative members of Saddam’s regime. As the report says, there is no documentary evidence of Saddam’s plan for a quick resumption of WMD development, only reports from his close associates.

Why should we assume that the Ba’athist strategy of asymmetrical resistance aimed at American public opinion was limited to the military? By conspiring with some, keeping others in ignorance, and planting misinformation where facts could not be hidden, Saddam could have created the story pieced together by the ISG.

This scenario would also account for the reports of heavy traffic between Iraq and Syria in January and February 2003 and reports that Syria wants to send Iraqi nuclear scientists sheltering in Syria to Iran because they are too hot to hold on to.

Fuck you. You don’t know a goddamned thing about my wife or how she thinks.

If you want to go through life thinking half the people in your country are idiots for voting the “wrong” way, well, I hope that works for you.