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Roger’s Rules

Thoughts on Pope Francis

November 21st, 2013 - 4:36 am

Photographed with “anti-fracking activists”? An encyclical on “the care of the planet”?  The silence should be embarrassed, not obsequious. And if you are wondering who the boffin Boff is, Andrew dug up the answer from the National Catholic Reporter: “One of Pope Francis’ most vocal supporters since his election three days ago has been Leonardo Boff, one of the founders of liberation theology….”

Yikes.  It’s not, as Andrew says, that Francis has signed up for liberation theology.  It’s not that straightforward: steal from the productive members of society, squander what you steal while pretending to help the poor, do everything you can to be sure every country achieves the same level of economic misery.  That, in a nutshell, is what liberation theology is all about when it comes to economics.  Francis is not so brash.  Rather, as Andrew says, “When it comes to economics, at least, his thinking appears to be a muddle of Rerum Novarum and Juan Peron.”  Which is not, as he concludes, particularly reassuring.

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Sorry! Your way off mark. The Catholic Church values Truth above authority although in its past history it has shown to value Truth somewhat imperfectly. Of course this would make sense because the Church is administered by imperfect individuals.

Historical revisionism is created by those who are afraid of the Truth. Period!
20 weeks ago
20 weeks ago Link To Comment
Equally disturbing is the pope's embrace of Cardinal Maradiaga of Honduras. This Liberation Theologist and anti-Semite has been picked as one of a team of eight Francis chosen to "reform the church."

He talks of "the neoliberal dictatorships that rule democracies" and of how "The Eurocentric democracies are taking everything from them: life, culture, dignity, and freedom." (Dallas speech, 25 October 2013)

And he has blamed the church's PR problems (child abuse) on Jewish Zionist control of the US media. (interview May 2002)

So I would agree there is cause for concern when this man is chosen to help reform the church.
20 weeks ago
20 weeks ago Link To Comment
Note to Roger- do not get your theology from the guardian or news for that matter
20 weeks ago
20 weeks ago Link To Comment
All Comments   (37)
All Comments   (37)
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The Pope is infallible. Except for that heliocentrism thing.
19 weeks ago
19 weeks ago Link To Comment
You're probably just being humorous here, but let me mention that even for believers, the so-called doctrine of infallalibility only applies when he is speaking ex cathedra on faith and morals.
19 weeks ago
19 weeks ago Link To Comment
I have recoiled in fear and sadness at several of this man’s public statements, hoping he just needed a little more time in the role and then he’d quickly self-correct when he saw how easily his carelessly-crafted, off-the-cuff remarks lent themselves to interpretations diametrically opposed to bedrock Catholic theology. Maybe we’d even see some urgently needed clarifications.

Was I ever wrong! I think the recognition of a need to rein in his spontaneity and script his public utterances is the last thing on this guy’s mind and something we’ll never see.

To be kind, I’ll assume that apparently he sees the entire world through the distorted lens polished by life in Latin America, and has somehow decided Liberation Theology is just the ticket to the heal the world’s ills.

There seems to be an inability to make some critical distinctions in Francis’s thinking. I rejoiced at reading this wonderful set of qualifiers, for example, in Tom Blumer’s beautiful tribute to his Mother:

“I’m an unapologetic advocate of capitalism under three eminently reasonable conditions: Its players have Judeo-Christian ethical foundations; the rules of the game are fair and clearly understood; and the refs don’t play favorites. Though the second and third items have been seriously compromised in recent years, the first requirement is the most underappreciated.”

It’s just the sort of statement we need to hear from the Pope. Instead, we get stuff like this:

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2013/11/27/Pope-Francis-Attacks-Capitalism-Calls-for-State-Control

This guy will be putty in Obama’s hands, adding yet another component to what appears to be the perfect storm threatening to engulf America and Israel.

Has the Biblical injunction to “pray without ceasing” ever been more up-to-date?

20 weeks ago
20 weeks ago Link To Comment
20 weeks ago
20 weeks ago Link To Comment
none of this makes any difference. the sordid and secular american media and culture marches on and all the churches and ministers can do is offer the same old message using outdated scripture and refusing to tackle the issues head on. just visit on sunday, stand, sit, kneel, sing and listen to drivel. then show up on wednesday for a good meal, do a few room in the inns, check out sunday school, bible study groups. to what purpose? b.s. and it keeps some money flowing into the coffers. no lessons offered on how to counteract the media and culture which is suffocating us. maybe they dont know but i think they do and are no better than neville chamberlain. appeasers. dont rock the boat. too bad.
20 weeks ago
20 weeks ago Link To Comment
"...using outdated scripture..."--nadd

Whatever could that little phrase mean?
20 weeks ago
20 weeks ago Link To Comment
Roger,
Before writing about your fears of this current pope, maybe you should do a little credible biographical research on this guy. He fought against liberation theology in his younger days.

Pope Francis' mission is not only to bring wayward Catholics back into the fold (think the Prodigal Son) but to attract non-Catholics to the Church as well. I have been reading from all over the world that Catholic Church attendance has gone up since his election.

Pope Francis does not care about politics (although it has been gossiped that he will not make a visit to his homeland, Argentina, until Cristina Fernández de Kirchner, leaves office in 3 yrs.) only the Truth.

In order to begin to understand Pope Francis you must read all his recent speeches, not a select few sentences from a few selected speeches that the secular media reports on.
20 weeks ago
20 weeks ago Link To Comment
Pope Francis most recently warned about the false ideas of "Progressivism" which puts the society and the government above the individual. That sounds like a warning about the left. The "Guardian" tried unsuccessfully to smear Francis immediately after he was elected. In Argentina, Francis has seen first hand abuses from both the right and left. As for economics, that has never been the Catholic Church's strong suit. Witness the poor economic performance of Franco Spain and Devalera Ireland, both of which followed Catholic economic ideas.
20 weeks ago
20 weeks ago Link To Comment
"...the poor economic performance of Franco Spain and Devalera Ireland (was due to) Catholic economic ideas."--Laurent1

False. By the way, the Austrian school of economics is based on "Catholic economic ideas."
20 weeks ago
20 weeks ago Link To Comment
As a Presbyterian I agree he should live up to the office: the outward image of the church provides mental security to the faithful.

You did miss one issue: his choosing Francis. I would have thought for a Jesuit, St. Francis Xavier would have been just thing: a saint of the active life.

It seems to me he is more concerned with an image rather than living his heritage.
20 weeks ago
20 weeks ago Link To Comment
Sorry! You're way off mark. Pope Francis is living out the words of Jesus Christ & also following the example of St Francis of Assisi.
20 weeks ago
20 weeks ago Link To Comment
He seems a good man, have a little faith...
20 weeks ago
20 weeks ago Link To Comment
The Roman Catholic Church is an institution that values authority above truth, the institution above the individual, man above God. When it can, it rules by ruthlessly applied brute force, when it can't, it employs lies as easily as most of us breathe. In fact, it may be rightly credited with having invented historical revisionism.

Ergo, it is the natural ally of the left.


The only surprise is when we see it standing against the left, as it does on abortion. (Never to the point of actually doing something that might risk cutting off the big money, of course, but at least the rhetoric is there.)


20 weeks ago
20 weeks ago Link To Comment
Sorry! Your way off mark. The Catholic Church values Truth above authority although in its past history it has shown to value Truth somewhat imperfectly. Of course this would make sense because the Church is administered by imperfect individuals.

Historical revisionism is created by those who are afraid of the Truth. Period!
20 weeks ago
20 weeks ago Link To Comment
Read your own historians. They can't even agree among themselves about your vaunted succession, yet you still pretend that it is secure. And what of infallibility? Your own historians proclaim it a lie. Cardinal Baronius says that for several hundred years the popes were such evil men that he can only recognize them as popes because otherwise there would be no succession at all.
20 weeks ago
20 weeks ago Link To Comment
.....and, remember Avignon, and those three competitive popes busily ex-communicating each other.

Ah, uninterrupted succession. Form trumps substance.
20 weeks ago
20 weeks ago Link To Comment
Oh, yes, but that wasn't the only time they had 2 or more, each anathematizing the others, and nullifying all of their acts.

And the Pope Joan story appears to have been found credible by more than one ancient RCC historian, though at this late date it's really impossible to determine the truth of it.

Even if Bishop Strossmeyer's speech Bishop Strossmeyer's speech [https://duckduckgo.com/?q=bishop%20strossmeyer%27s%20speech&kl=us-en
] didn't really happen (and it's not certain one way or another), the content of it is straight and well-documented history.
20 weeks ago
20 weeks ago Link To Comment
Equally disturbing is the pope's embrace of Cardinal Maradiaga of Honduras. This Liberation Theologist and anti-Semite has been picked as one of a team of eight Francis chosen to "reform the church."

He talks of "the neoliberal dictatorships that rule democracies" and of how "The Eurocentric democracies are taking everything from them: life, culture, dignity, and freedom." (Dallas speech, 25 October 2013)

And he has blamed the church's PR problems (child abuse) on Jewish Zionist control of the US media. (interview May 2002)

So I would agree there is cause for concern when this man is chosen to help reform the church.
20 weeks ago
20 weeks ago Link To Comment
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