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	<title>Comments on: Crunch Time for Health Care: Now It&#8217;s Up to Us</title>
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		<title>By: Allende</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerkimball/2009/10/13/crunch-time-for-health-care-now-its-up-to-us/#comment-40884</link>
		<dc:creator>Allende</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 04:08:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerkimball/?p=1670#comment-40884</guid>
		<description>Obama, in the town where Gavin Newsom&#039;s &quot;Whether you like it or not...!&quot; sank his own career, says &quot;I&#039;m not tired!&quot;

As Yoda would say, &quot;You WILL be.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obama, in the town where Gavin Newsom&#8217;s &#8220;Whether you like it or not&#8230;!&#8221; sank his own career, says &#8220;I&#8217;m not tired!&#8221;</p>
<p>As Yoda would say, &#8220;You WILL be.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Albert</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerkimball/2009/10/13/crunch-time-for-health-care-now-its-up-to-us/#comment-40570</link>
		<dc:creator>Albert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 17:41:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerkimball/?p=1670#comment-40570</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s where the Republicans&#039; (particularly the Palin impaired) intellectual and ideological agoraphobia has led them:

• That Quinnipiac survey finds that just 25 percent approve of the way Republicans in Congress are handling their job, while 64 percent disapprove.

• The latest Democracy Corps survey finds just 30 percent with a favorable opinion the GOP while 44 have an unfavorable opinion. That -14 point net approval rating is nearly twice as bad as it was on Election Day in 2008. Moreover, at net 17-point favorability gap between the two parties is down only slightly from Election Day 2008 and is still substantially larger than when Democrats secured their first of two successive wave victories on Election Day in 2006.

• A similar analysis of Pew data from Brendan Nylan at Pollster.com finds that &quot;the Republicans are currently viewed more negatively than any minority party in the previous four midterms in terms of both net favorables and the difference in net favorables between parties.&quot;


Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andrew-baumann/voters-tiring-of-republic_b_315563.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s where the Republicans&#8217; (particularly the Palin impaired) intellectual and ideological agoraphobia has led them:</p>
<p>• That Quinnipiac survey finds that just 25 percent approve of the way Republicans in Congress are handling their job, while 64 percent disapprove.</p>
<p>• The latest Democracy Corps survey finds just 30 percent with a favorable opinion the GOP while 44 have an unfavorable opinion. That -14 point net approval rating is nearly twice as bad as it was on Election Day in 2008. Moreover, at net 17-point favorability gap between the two parties is down only slightly from Election Day 2008 and is still substantially larger than when Democrats secured their first of two successive wave victories on Election Day in 2006.</p>
<p>• A similar analysis of Pew data from Brendan Nylan at Pollster.com finds that &#8220;the Republicans are currently viewed more negatively than any minority party in the previous four midterms in terms of both net favorables and the difference in net favorables between parties.&#8221;</p>
<p>Read more at: <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andrew-baumann/voters-tiring-of-republic_b_315563.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andrew-baumann/voters-tiring-of-republic_b_315563.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Cybergeezer</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerkimball/2009/10/13/crunch-time-for-health-care-now-its-up-to-us/#comment-40565</link>
		<dc:creator>Cybergeezer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 16:56:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerkimball/?p=1670#comment-40565</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Obama&#039;s plan for forced welfare:&lt;/b&gt;
http://blog.heritage.org/2009/10/16/morning-bell-obamacare-puts-you-on-welfare/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Obama&#8217;s plan for forced welfare:</b><br />
<a href="http://blog.heritage.org/2009/10/16/morning-bell-obamacare-puts-you-on-welfare/" rel="nofollow">http://blog.heritage.org/2009/10/16/morning-bell-obamacare-puts-you-on-welfare/</a></p>
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		<title>By: David Schor</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerkimball/2009/10/13/crunch-time-for-health-care-now-its-up-to-us/#comment-40333</link>
		<dc:creator>David Schor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 03:43:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerkimball/?p=1670#comment-40333</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;@91. venividivici:&lt;/b&gt;

&lt;i&gt;I am educated in the Classics. You know, those dead, white European males that were so much smarter than people like you that you had to start denigrating them when you realized that you couldn’t live up to their standards.&lt;/i&gt;

In other words, you spent your time at the University reading the stuff I read while I was in middle school.

&lt;i&gt;One sentence of Aristotle is more profound than every post of yours on this or any other website combined.&lt;/i&gt;

Nice of you not to share that sentence.  So obtuse.

&lt;i&gt;If I actually believed that anyone on the Left measured up to Plato’s (Plato was the first Leftist, really) ideal of the “philosopher-king”, I would follow that person’s vision of the “just society” to the letter.&lt;/i&gt;

You have explained, in one sentence, exactly what is wrong with you.

&lt;i&gt;Alas, all I see among the would-be philosopher-kings are fools, charlatans and incompetents (sometimes all of these things combined in one).&lt;/i&gt;

Have you decided which category you belong to yet?  Or are you shooting for a trifecta?

&lt;i&gt;Plus, no one seems to understand that “Utopia” is a play on words and isn’t meant to be an actual political program. A lot gets lost in translation, but that one’s so simple that it says a lot about the people, like yourself, who haven’t even figured that out.&lt;/i&gt;

Funny that - you are the only one here talking about Utopia.

&lt;i&gt;So, it’s not that I “lost” my education, it’s that you’ve never had one.&lt;/i&gt;

It&#039;s a good thing you didn&#039;t claim to have a degree in science.  Your logic is lacking.

&lt;i&gt;You really don’t seem to believe me when I tell you that at one point, I thought just like you, only I grew out of it once I truly reflected on what drove those thoughts, i.e. what Nietzsche called ressentiment. Read Nietzsche’s “Untimely Meditation” on David Strauss for a good portrait of yourself and your many shortcomings.&lt;/i&gt;

I&#039;m certain that you believe that at one point you thought just like me.  I don&#039;t doubt that you have read Nietzsche.  I just wonder why you elect to make a show of it.  It&#039;s not like the rest of us are not familiar.  Your college education sounds a lot like my summer reading list from my freshman year in high school.  But you can keep on assuming my shortcomings - I don&#039;t mind.  Whatever makes you feel better.  I wouldn&#039;t want to bruise your self-esteem.  I&#039;m sure that your education has served you well in whatever field you have made your own.

Peace.

DS</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>@91. venividivici:</b></p>
<p><i>I am educated in the Classics. You know, those dead, white European males that were so much smarter than people like you that you had to start denigrating them when you realized that you couldn’t live up to their standards.</i></p>
<p>In other words, you spent your time at the University reading the stuff I read while I was in middle school.</p>
<p><i>One sentence of Aristotle is more profound than every post of yours on this or any other website combined.</i></p>
<p>Nice of you not to share that sentence.  So obtuse.</p>
<p><i>If I actually believed that anyone on the Left measured up to Plato’s (Plato was the first Leftist, really) ideal of the “philosopher-king”, I would follow that person’s vision of the “just society” to the letter.</i></p>
<p>You have explained, in one sentence, exactly what is wrong with you.</p>
<p><i>Alas, all I see among the would-be philosopher-kings are fools, charlatans and incompetents (sometimes all of these things combined in one).</i></p>
<p>Have you decided which category you belong to yet?  Or are you shooting for a trifecta?</p>
<p><i>Plus, no one seems to understand that “Utopia” is a play on words and isn’t meant to be an actual political program. A lot gets lost in translation, but that one’s so simple that it says a lot about the people, like yourself, who haven’t even figured that out.</i></p>
<p>Funny that &#8211; you are the only one here talking about Utopia.</p>
<p><i>So, it’s not that I “lost” my education, it’s that you’ve never had one.</i></p>
<p>It&#8217;s a good thing you didn&#8217;t claim to have a degree in science.  Your logic is lacking.</p>
<p><i>You really don’t seem to believe me when I tell you that at one point, I thought just like you, only I grew out of it once I truly reflected on what drove those thoughts, i.e. what Nietzsche called ressentiment. Read Nietzsche’s “Untimely Meditation” on David Strauss for a good portrait of yourself and your many shortcomings.</i></p>
<p>I&#8217;m certain that you believe that at one point you thought just like me.  I don&#8217;t doubt that you have read Nietzsche.  I just wonder why you elect to make a show of it.  It&#8217;s not like the rest of us are not familiar.  Your college education sounds a lot like my summer reading list from my freshman year in high school.  But you can keep on assuming my shortcomings &#8211; I don&#8217;t mind.  Whatever makes you feel better.  I wouldn&#8217;t want to bruise your self-esteem.  I&#8217;m sure that your education has served you well in whatever field you have made your own.</p>
<p>Peace.</p>
<p>DS</p>
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		<title>By: Moho</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerkimball/2009/10/13/crunch-time-for-health-care-now-its-up-to-us/#comment-40300</link>
		<dc:creator>Moho</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 01:42:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerkimball/?p=1670#comment-40300</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;This would have more credibility if you’d ever posted something here that wasn’t pretty much by-the-book Leftism.&lt;/i&gt;

I challenge you to show me what an example of this. The topics discussed here are pure fantasy, that&#039;s what makes me angry. You people are impoverishing our discourse, talking about the number of angels that can fit on a pin. If you really had any beliefs of any kind, you&#039;d be taking your fellow posters here to task for their striking bullshit. Its quite obvious that you don&#039;t. No integrity, no belief system, simply a blind servant of authoritarian power. 

&lt;i&gt;Who knows who, if anyone, is reading this, but they are the ones who decide who is ignorant, whether flamboyantly or not, and who isn’t. I like my odds.&lt;/i&gt;

You should, the people here are not only ignorant, they&#039;re as dumb as a bag of hammers. They couldn&#039;t tell sh^t from shinola with a microscope. Just a list of some of the amazingly pertinent and really based in reality topics discussed on Self-Pwnage Media today:

The Media&#039;s War Against Liz Cheney
[a petty bureaucrat on every single morning show for the past six months with absolutely no real accomplishments to recommend the attention. But yeah, they&#039;re persecuting her]

CAIR: The Muslim Media Exposed
[I can&#039;t even bring myself to criticize this sorry piece of propaganda. Anyone discussing this in real terms is an idiot]

Ohio State Student Group Hosts Hamas Fundraiser
[they also baked Hitler shaped cookies]

Pure fantastical bs, the lot of it. If you had any shame at all, you&#039;d scurry over to your long-suffering wife and children and beg for forgiveness for your part in the decline of the public sphere. But you have no shame, and no integrity. Just an authoritarian looking to lick the b6lls of the biggest Republican dog you can find. Have at it, Rex.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>This would have more credibility if you’d ever posted something here that wasn’t pretty much by-the-book Leftism.</i></p>
<p>I challenge you to show me what an example of this. The topics discussed here are pure fantasy, that&#8217;s what makes me angry. You people are impoverishing our discourse, talking about the number of angels that can fit on a pin. If you really had any beliefs of any kind, you&#8217;d be taking your fellow posters here to task for their striking bullshit. Its quite obvious that you don&#8217;t. No integrity, no belief system, simply a blind servant of authoritarian power. </p>
<p><i>Who knows who, if anyone, is reading this, but they are the ones who decide who is ignorant, whether flamboyantly or not, and who isn’t. I like my odds.</i></p>
<p>You should, the people here are not only ignorant, they&#8217;re as dumb as a bag of hammers. They couldn&#8217;t tell sh^t from shinola with a microscope. Just a list of some of the amazingly pertinent and really based in reality topics discussed on Self-Pwnage Media today:</p>
<p>The Media&#8217;s War Against Liz Cheney<br />
[a petty bureaucrat on every single morning show for the past six months with absolutely no real accomplishments to recommend the attention. But yeah, they're persecuting her]</p>
<p>CAIR: The Muslim Media Exposed<br />
[I can't even bring myself to criticize this sorry piece of propaganda. Anyone discussing this in real terms is an idiot]</p>
<p>Ohio State Student Group Hosts Hamas Fundraiser<br />
[they also baked Hitler shaped cookies]</p>
<p>Pure fantastical bs, the lot of it. If you had any shame at all, you&#8217;d scurry over to your long-suffering wife and children and beg for forgiveness for your part in the decline of the public sphere. But you have no shame, and no integrity. Just an authoritarian looking to lick the b6lls of the biggest Republican dog you can find. Have at it, Rex.</p>
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		<title>By: venividivici</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerkimball/2009/10/13/crunch-time-for-health-care-now-its-up-to-us/#comment-40166</link>
		<dc:creator>venividivici</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 15:55:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerkimball/?p=1670#comment-40166</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Again, I didn’t bring up leftist thought, you did.&lt;/i&gt;

After you conveniently parroted a series of Leftist ideas regarding the Founding Fathers and early American history, including the value judgments that are fairly standard from that side of the aisle. Sorry, I&#039;m just a simple man, so if someone shows up at my door with blond hair and blue eyes, speaking German, I assume he&#039;s German.

&lt;i&gt;I’m not a “leftist” if that word indeed has any meaning anymore.&lt;/i&gt;

This would have more credibility if you&#039;d ever posted something here that wasn&#039;t pretty much by-the-book Leftism. I&#039;ll take your word for it but it&#039;s not as if many of the topics discussed at PJM don&#039;t offer opportunities for a person who isn&#039;t a Leftist to support either the conclusions reached by the various authors (which often, obviously, oppose Leftist political preferences on, e.g. school choice) or to offer up alternatives that really do go beyond some of the traditional dichotomies.

&lt;i&gt;especially no interest in hearing such a history from you, a rather flamboyantly ignorant individual.&lt;/i&gt;

Yeah, I&#039;m &quot;flamboyantly ignorant&quot;. OK, of course you would say that and at least you have enough understanding of the performative aspects of debate to make the accusation part of your rhetoric. The thing is that in the context of a public forum, the posters themselves don&#039;t really get to decide that, now do they? Who knows who, if anyone, is reading this, but they are the ones who decide who is ignorant, whether flamboyantly or not, and who isn&#039;t. I like my odds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Again, I didn’t bring up leftist thought, you did.</i></p>
<p>After you conveniently parroted a series of Leftist ideas regarding the Founding Fathers and early American history, including the value judgments that are fairly standard from that side of the aisle. Sorry, I&#8217;m just a simple man, so if someone shows up at my door with blond hair and blue eyes, speaking German, I assume he&#8217;s German.</p>
<p><i>I’m not a “leftist” if that word indeed has any meaning anymore.</i></p>
<p>This would have more credibility if you&#8217;d ever posted something here that wasn&#8217;t pretty much by-the-book Leftism. I&#8217;ll take your word for it but it&#8217;s not as if many of the topics discussed at PJM don&#8217;t offer opportunities for a person who isn&#8217;t a Leftist to support either the conclusions reached by the various authors (which often, obviously, oppose Leftist political preferences on, e.g. school choice) or to offer up alternatives that really do go beyond some of the traditional dichotomies.</p>
<p><i>especially no interest in hearing such a history from you, a rather flamboyantly ignorant individual.</i></p>
<p>Yeah, I&#8217;m &#8220;flamboyantly ignorant&#8221;. OK, of course you would say that and at least you have enough understanding of the performative aspects of debate to make the accusation part of your rhetoric. The thing is that in the context of a public forum, the posters themselves don&#8217;t really get to decide that, now do they? Who knows who, if anyone, is reading this, but they are the ones who decide who is ignorant, whether flamboyantly or not, and who isn&#8217;t. I like my odds.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul -Indiana</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerkimball/2009/10/13/crunch-time-for-health-care-now-its-up-to-us/#comment-40165</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul -Indiana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 15:46:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerkimball/?p=1670#comment-40165</guid>
		<description>#14.  &#039;tax-deductable&#039; ?
========================================================
What an abhorrent thought, comrade.  Totally counter productive, from the government&#039;s position.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#14.  &#8216;tax-deductable&#8217; ?<br />
========================================================<br />
What an abhorrent thought, comrade.  Totally counter productive, from the government&#8217;s position.</p>
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		<title>By: venividivici</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerkimball/2009/10/13/crunch-time-for-health-care-now-its-up-to-us/#comment-40159</link>
		<dc:creator>venividivici</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 15:33:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerkimball/?p=1670#comment-40159</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I never accused you of doing any of these things. In fact, I focused my critique on the ideas you’re aligning yourself with.&lt;/i&gt;

What is this, if not an accusation?

&lt;i&gt;Yeah, two hundred years of struggle–against people like you!&lt;/i&gt; 

Again, there were plenty of white males who were abolitionists, women&#039;s suffragists and marched for civil rights. From a pragmatic perspective, it&#039;s difficult to see how these movements could have achieved their goals without support from white males, given the exact power imbalances of the society at the time when these movements began. Had white males decided to oppose them with all their might, blood would have flowed in the streets in far greater quantities than it did. Even someone with your lack of perspective should be able to appreciate that fact. If you can&#039;t see that there were political fault lines within the demographic known as &quot;white males&quot; today (which, of course, was not always the case, e.g. Italians were dirty anarchists back in the day, but are considered a part of the white male demographic today), then your even less astute an observer of politics than I thought, which is pretty much to say that you&#039;ve achieved a level of zero astuteness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I never accused you of doing any of these things. In fact, I focused my critique on the ideas you’re aligning yourself with.</i></p>
<p>What is this, if not an accusation?</p>
<p><i>Yeah, two hundred years of struggle–against people like you!</i> </p>
<p>Again, there were plenty of white males who were abolitionists, women&#8217;s suffragists and marched for civil rights. From a pragmatic perspective, it&#8217;s difficult to see how these movements could have achieved their goals without support from white males, given the exact power imbalances of the society at the time when these movements began. Had white males decided to oppose them with all their might, blood would have flowed in the streets in far greater quantities than it did. Even someone with your lack of perspective should be able to appreciate that fact. If you can&#8217;t see that there were political fault lines within the demographic known as &#8220;white males&#8221; today (which, of course, was not always the case, e.g. Italians were dirty anarchists back in the day, but are considered a part of the white male demographic today), then your even less astute an observer of politics than I thought, which is pretty much to say that you&#8217;ve achieved a level of zero astuteness.</p>
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		<title>By: blotto</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerkimball/2009/10/13/crunch-time-for-health-care-now-its-up-to-us/#comment-40158</link>
		<dc:creator>blotto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 15:31:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerkimball/?p=1670#comment-40158</guid>
		<description>moho: Look for whatever reason you are on this thread, and continue to come back to this website, you are winning a losing battle. Your black liberation theology is plainly evident and it bores me. 

What&#039;s done is done. But to you it is an easy target-something you can bring up when you are losing an intellectual battle and say,&quot; but those awful white men back in the formative years of the republic enslaved us so they were evil&quot; demonstrates your incapacity for real thought and debate. You think immediately that these white people will shrivel up and stop arguing with me because I am black and have suffered from the sins(?) of the past. Weak!!

Your constant refrain of &quot;the poor black folk have been put down by the priveleged white folk&quot; is getting pretty tedious. 

Who gives a rats a$$ what you think about the founding of the greatest nation this planet has ever seen. The only reason you and Obama are at the levels you have risen to is because some guilt-tripping white liberal allowed you (via affirmative action)and him to get there. Do you really think O got to where he is without some white benefactor??

Give it a rest. If you hate this country so much leave.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>moho: Look for whatever reason you are on this thread, and continue to come back to this website, you are winning a losing battle. Your black liberation theology is plainly evident and it bores me. </p>
<p>What&#8217;s done is done. But to you it is an easy target-something you can bring up when you are losing an intellectual battle and say,&#8221; but those awful white men back in the formative years of the republic enslaved us so they were evil&#8221; demonstrates your incapacity for real thought and debate. You think immediately that these white people will shrivel up and stop arguing with me because I am black and have suffered from the sins(?) of the past. Weak!!</p>
<p>Your constant refrain of &#8220;the poor black folk have been put down by the priveleged white folk&#8221; is getting pretty tedious. </p>
<p>Who gives a rats a$$ what you think about the founding of the greatest nation this planet has ever seen. The only reason you and Obama are at the levels you have risen to is because some guilt-tripping white liberal allowed you (via affirmative action)and him to get there. Do you really think O got to where he is without some white benefactor??</p>
<p>Give it a rest. If you hate this country so much leave.</p>
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		<title>By: venividivici</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerkimball/2009/10/13/crunch-time-for-health-care-now-its-up-to-us/#comment-40157</link>
		<dc:creator>venividivici</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 15:22:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerkimball/?p=1670#comment-40157</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;as well as a broader lack of awareness of what it was that non-whites and women were seeking and how it related to the rights already enjoyed by white males in post-Revolutionary America.&lt;/i&gt;

And, of course, how those rights already enjoyed by white males had a lineage that went back to the old Roman and Greek rights, as I already mentioned. I don&#039;t think you&#039;re unaware of what those non-whites were fighting for, but I don&#039;t think you see those things in the broader historical context of Western history, or at least showed no evidence of it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>as well as a broader lack of awareness of what it was that non-whites and women were seeking and how it related to the rights already enjoyed by white males in post-Revolutionary America.</i></p>
<p>And, of course, how those rights already enjoyed by white males had a lineage that went back to the old Roman and Greek rights, as I already mentioned. I don&#8217;t think you&#8217;re unaware of what those non-whites were fighting for, but I don&#8217;t think you see those things in the broader historical context of Western history, or at least showed no evidence of it.</p>
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