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	<title>Comments on: And the winner is . . .</title>
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		<title>By: gumshoe</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerkimball/2008/12/07/an-the-winner-is/#comment-8262</link>
		<dc:creator>gumshoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 22:09:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>#3 Steve - 

&quot;Was it because Karl could conceive of no possible further development, or that he simply wanted communism to be the ultimate state and chose a pompous and pretentious argument to make it appear inevitable?&quot;

Steve - 
 I was recently reading author David Watkins&#039; comments on 20th century architectural attitudes
that coinicide with your observation on Marx.

Therories of the &quot;zeitgeist&quot; were (and are) popular table-pounding tools for positions touting &quot;inevitiablilty&quot;...
you are &quot;behind the times&quot;,&quot;out of it&quot;,&quot;passe&#039; &quot;,etc. and easily dismissed by the *bien pensant* if you don&#039;t support the party-line,
which is of course,in complete harmony with the *zeitgeist*,which is inevitable...until it isn&#039;t.

Watkin pointed oput how this 
was the hand-maiden of moral-relativism,since what was forbidden in one &quot;age&quot; could be permitted in the next,depending not on
eternal values,but those of the zeitgeist. 

Traditional/conservative viewpoints 
tend not to follow the &quot;all is permitted/ends justify the means&quot;
worldview...Marx on the other hand was one of it&#039;s main,nihilist
&quot;creators&quot;.


David Watkin - Morality and Architecture,1977, Oxford University Press http://tinyurl.com/5onbhv</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#3 Steve &#8211; </p>
<p>&#8220;Was it because Karl could conceive of no possible further development, or that he simply wanted communism to be the ultimate state and chose a pompous and pretentious argument to make it appear inevitable?&#8221;</p>
<p>Steve &#8211;<br />
 I was recently reading author David Watkins&#8217; comments on 20th century architectural attitudes<br />
that coinicide with your observation on Marx.</p>
<p>Therories of the &#8220;zeitgeist&#8221; were (and are) popular table-pounding tools for positions touting &#8220;inevitiablilty&#8221;&#8230;<br />
you are &#8220;behind the times&#8221;,&#8221;out of it&#8221;,&#8221;passe&#8217; &#8220;,etc. and easily dismissed by the *bien pensant* if you don&#8217;t support the party-line,<br />
which is of course,in complete harmony with the *zeitgeist*,which is inevitable&#8230;until it isn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>Watkin pointed oput how this<br />
was the hand-maiden of moral-relativism,since what was forbidden in one &#8220;age&#8221; could be permitted in the next,depending not on<br />
eternal values,but those of the zeitgeist. </p>
<p>Traditional/conservative viewpoints<br />
tend not to follow the &#8220;all is permitted/ends justify the means&#8221;<br />
worldview&#8230;Marx on the other hand was one of it&#8217;s main,nihilist<br />
&#8220;creators&#8221;.</p>
<p>David Watkin &#8211; Morality and Architecture,1977, Oxford University Press <a href="http://tinyurl.com/5onbhv" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/5onbhv</a></p>
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		<title>By: William M. Briggs, Statistician &#187; We made &#8220;noteworthy&#8221;</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerkimball/2008/12/07/an-the-winner-is/#comment-8256</link>
		<dc:creator>William M. Briggs, Statistician &#187; We made &#8220;noteworthy&#8221;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 12:50:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerkimball/?p=471#comment-8256</guid>
		<description>[...] months ago Roger Kimball instituted a contest: Name the silliest argument to be offered by a serious academic in the last 25 [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] months ago Roger Kimball instituted a contest: Name the silliest argument to be offered by a serious academic in the last 25 [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Roger&#8217;s Rules &#187; Some things you can&#8217;t say</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerkimball/2008/12/07/an-the-winner-is/#comment-8226</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger&#8217;s Rules &#187; Some things you can&#8217;t say</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 14:17:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerkimball/?p=471#comment-8226</guid>
		<description>[...] should be avoid because its a synonym for &#8220;American hegemony.&#8221; Yesterday, I made mention of something called &#8220;The Voluntary Human Extinction Movement.&#8221; I, too, thought it [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] should be avoid because its a synonym for &#8220;American hegemony.&#8221; Yesterday, I made mention of something called &#8220;The Voluntary Human Extinction Movement.&#8221; I, too, thought it [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Skubinna</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerkimball/2008/12/07/an-the-winner-is/#comment-8225</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Skubinna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 14:05:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerkimball/?p=471#comment-8225</guid>
		<description>I think many people fall victim to the delusion that there exists a sort of evolutionary continuum of social development, that societies naturally move through various stages towards some ultimate perfectibility.

One tenet of conservatism is that human nature has no history, i.e. that human nature, despite changes in currently held attitudes, does not change.  So even though today we all agree (at least within the US) that slavery is an unmitigated evil and is never justifiable, we forget that for most of human history slavery was considered a perfectly natural state, and questioning its legitimacy would have been nonsensical.  Likewise, I cannot conceive of any circumstance under which I would surrender my autonomy to a king or tsar or other autocrat, yet my loathing of autocracy is my own and dies with me - it won&#039;t be passed into the air and water to live on as an immutable truth after my passing.

To one who realizes this, there&#039;s no guarantee that we can&#039;t slide backwards into barbarism again, or for that matter to conditions and attitudes prevalent only a short century ago.  So most of us who identified as conservatives instinctively knew Fukuyama was full of it, even if we did not articulate why we felt so.  I had the same reaction when I first read Marx in high school and wondered how Marx could be certain that the Hegelian dialectic would come to a screeching halt once the revolution was established.  Was it because Karl could conceive of no possible further development, or that he simply wanted communism to be the ultimate state and chose a pompous and pretentious argument to make it appear inevitable?

Did Fukuyama like democracy so much that he wanted to cement it as the pinnacle of human social evolution, or did he sincerely believe that he had demonstrated with Marx&#039;s faux &quot;scientific precision&quot; it was so?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think many people fall victim to the delusion that there exists a sort of evolutionary continuum of social development, that societies naturally move through various stages towards some ultimate perfectibility.</p>
<p>One tenet of conservatism is that human nature has no history, i.e. that human nature, despite changes in currently held attitudes, does not change.  So even though today we all agree (at least within the US) that slavery is an unmitigated evil and is never justifiable, we forget that for most of human history slavery was considered a perfectly natural state, and questioning its legitimacy would have been nonsensical.  Likewise, I cannot conceive of any circumstance under which I would surrender my autonomy to a king or tsar or other autocrat, yet my loathing of autocracy is my own and dies with me &#8211; it won&#8217;t be passed into the air and water to live on as an immutable truth after my passing.</p>
<p>To one who realizes this, there&#8217;s no guarantee that we can&#8217;t slide backwards into barbarism again, or for that matter to conditions and attitudes prevalent only a short century ago.  So most of us who identified as conservatives instinctively knew Fukuyama was full of it, even if we did not articulate why we felt so.  I had the same reaction when I first read Marx in high school and wondered how Marx could be certain that the Hegelian dialectic would come to a screeching halt once the revolution was established.  Was it because Karl could conceive of no possible further development, or that he simply wanted communism to be the ultimate state and chose a pompous and pretentious argument to make it appear inevitable?</p>
<p>Did Fukuyama like democracy so much that he wanted to cement it as the pinnacle of human social evolution, or did he sincerely believe that he had demonstrated with Marx&#8217;s faux &#8220;scientific precision&#8221; it was so?</p>
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		<title>By: Zhombre</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerkimball/2008/12/07/an-the-winner-is/#comment-8223</link>
		<dc:creator>Zhombre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Dec 2008 18:10:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerkimball/?p=471#comment-8223</guid>
		<description>Is Fukuyama Japanese for Pangloss?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is Fukuyama Japanese for Pangloss?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Fausta&#8217;s Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Sunday morning books, shoes and links</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerkimball/2008/12/07/an-the-winner-is/#comment-8221</link>
		<dc:creator>Fausta&#8217;s Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Sunday morning books, shoes and links</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Dec 2008 17:25:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerkimball/?p=471#comment-8221</guid>
		<description>[...] Roger Kimball announces the winner of the silliest argument to be offered by a serious academic in the last 25 years and to be taken up an.... [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Roger Kimball announces the winner of the silliest argument to be offered by a serious academic in the last 25 years and to be taken up an&#8230;. [...]</p>
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