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	<title>Comments on: Conrad Black and Saint-Just</title>
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	<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerkimball/2007/12/18/conrad_black_and_saintjust/</link>
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		<title>By: structured takedowns</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerkimball/2007/12/18/conrad_black_and_saintjust/#comment-220970</link>
		<dc:creator>structured takedowns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Jan 2011 16:34:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>What exactly is the relationship between Black and Claridges ?!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What exactly is the relationship between Black and Claridges ?!</p>
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		<title>By: Roger&#39;s Rules &#187; Conrad Black: Justice (finally) prevails</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerkimball/2007/12/18/conrad_black_and_saintjust/#comment-111878</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger&#39;s Rules &#187; Conrad Black: Justice (finally) prevails</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jul 2010 18:02:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] first time I wrote about Lord Black in this space was in December 2007, while a jury still deliberated over his fate in the monstrously [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] first time I wrote about Lord Black in this space was in December 2007, while a jury still deliberated over his fate in the monstrously [...]</p>
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		<title>By: David Thomson</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerkimball/2007/12/18/conrad_black_and_saintjust/#comment-424</link>
		<dc:creator>David Thomson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Dec 2007 15:22:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&quot;Mr. Fitzgerald showed humility in following the law and not putting himself above the law by ignoring his obligations under the law&quot;

What in heaven&#039;s name does that mean?  There is no such thing as a prosecutor absolutely adhering to all the laws on the books.  They must pick and choose which laws are to be enforced.  To do otherwise---would destroy the system.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Mr. Fitzgerald showed humility in following the law and not putting himself above the law by ignoring his obligations under the law&#8221;</p>
<p>What in heaven&#8217;s name does that mean?  There is no such thing as a prosecutor absolutely adhering to all the laws on the books.  They must pick and choose which laws are to be enforced.  To do otherwise&#8212;would destroy the system.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerkimball/2007/12/18/conrad_black_and_saintjust/#comment-423</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 19:06:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Jim:
I think I agree with Jeb.
Mr. Black&#039;s  company oversight supervisors did there duty in finding out about Mr. Black&#039;s behavior and reporting it to the share holders and again when they reported the behavior to the justice system for investigation.  This I believe was the duty of the  corporate board to the share holders, and to the community at large because theft and fraud are public wrongs that go beyond the wrong done to the share holders alone. A thief has hurt us all not just the immediate victims.  The unjust Stuart should be pointed out to the community.

Mr. Kimble says in part that Mr. Fitzgerald&#039;s actions were

‘an object lesson in judicial arrogance and overreach.&#039;

I believe those actions were a very important obligation of both Mr. Fitzgerald and the Criminal Justice System. Mr. Fitzgerald showed humility in following the law and not putting himself above the law by ignoring his obligations under the law
Mr. Kimball further asks;

&quot;What had he (Mr. Black) done to occasion the unbridled wrath of the U.S. Justice Department, or at least its representative, Patrick Fitzgerald?&quot;

I think the answer is in two parts, the first part is: that Mr. Kimball has not proved or show beyond reasonable doubt that either the Justice Department or Mr. Fitzgerald engaged in any wrath or did anything with a bridle.  Second what Mr. Fitzgerald did do was present allowable evidence in open court that was confronted and questioned by Mr. Black&#039;s attorneys.  Then the jury convened and found to their subjective group judgment that the evidence presented and challenged showed beyond reasonable doubt that Mr. Black had committed crimes and so found him guilt of these crimes.  Note they did not find him guilty of all crimes charged.
It strongly appears to me that the prosecutor, jury and judge fulfilled their obligations well.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim:<br />
I think I agree with Jeb.<br />
Mr. Black&#8217;s  company oversight supervisors did there duty in finding out about Mr. Black&#8217;s behavior and reporting it to the share holders and again when they reported the behavior to the justice system for investigation.  This I believe was the duty of the  corporate board to the share holders, and to the community at large because theft and fraud are public wrongs that go beyond the wrong done to the share holders alone. A thief has hurt us all not just the immediate victims.  The unjust Stuart should be pointed out to the community.</p>
<p>Mr. Kimble says in part that Mr. Fitzgerald&#8217;s actions were</p>
<p>‘an object lesson in judicial arrogance and overreach.&#8217;</p>
<p>I believe those actions were a very important obligation of both Mr. Fitzgerald and the Criminal Justice System. Mr. Fitzgerald showed humility in following the law and not putting himself above the law by ignoring his obligations under the law<br />
Mr. Kimball further asks;</p>
<p>&#8220;What had he (Mr. Black) done to occasion the unbridled wrath of the U.S. Justice Department, or at least its representative, Patrick Fitzgerald?&#8221;</p>
<p>I think the answer is in two parts, the first part is: that Mr. Kimball has not proved or show beyond reasonable doubt that either the Justice Department or Mr. Fitzgerald engaged in any wrath or did anything with a bridle.  Second what Mr. Fitzgerald did do was present allowable evidence in open court that was confronted and questioned by Mr. Black&#8217;s attorneys.  Then the jury convened and found to their subjective group judgment that the evidence presented and challenged showed beyond reasonable doubt that Mr. Black had committed crimes and so found him guilt of these crimes.  Note they did not find him guilty of all crimes charged.<br />
It strongly appears to me that the prosecutor, jury and judge fulfilled their obligations well.</p>
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		<title>By: David Thomson</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerkimball/2007/12/18/conrad_black_and_saintjust/#comment-422</link>
		<dc:creator>David Thomson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 18:03:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerkimball/2007/12/18/conrad-black-and-saint-just/#comment-422</guid>
		<description>Tim Wu has something to add about our justice system.  I strongly urge everyone to take advantage of the link I’ve provided at the bottom.  The whole article is well worth reading.  It well compliments the thoughts of Roger Kimball:

“At the federal prosecutor&#039;s office in the Southern District of New York, the staff, over beer and pretzels, used to play a darkly humorous game. Junior and senior prosecutors would sit around, and someone would name a random celebrity—say, Mother Theresa or John Lennon.
It would then be up to the junior prosecutors to figure out a plausible crime for which to indict him or her. The crimes were not usually rape, murder, or other crimes you&#039;d see on Law &amp; Order but rather the incredibly broad yet obscure crimes that populate the U.S. Code like a kind of jurisprudential minefield: Crimes like &quot;false statements&quot; (a felony, up to five years), &quot;obstructing the mails&quot; (five years), or &quot;false pretenses on the high seas&quot; (also five years). The trick and the skill lay in finding the more obscure offenses that fit the character of the celebrity and carried the toughest sentences. The, result, however, was inevitable: &quot;prison time.&quot;

As this story suggests, American law is underenforced—and we like it that way. Full enforcement of every last law on the books would put all of us in prison for crimes such as &quot;injuring a mail bag.&quot; No enforcement of our laws, on the other hand, would mean anarchy. Somehow, officials must choose what laws really matter.”

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.slate.com/id/2175730/entry/2175733/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.slate.com/id/2175730/entry/2175733/&lt;/a&gt;


</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim Wu has something to add about our justice system.  I strongly urge everyone to take advantage of the link I’ve provided at the bottom.  The whole article is well worth reading.  It well compliments the thoughts of Roger Kimball:</p>
<p>“At the federal prosecutor&#8217;s office in the Southern District of New York, the staff, over beer and pretzels, used to play a darkly humorous game. Junior and senior prosecutors would sit around, and someone would name a random celebrity—say, Mother Theresa or John Lennon.<br />
It would then be up to the junior prosecutors to figure out a plausible crime for which to indict him or her. The crimes were not usually rape, murder, or other crimes you&#8217;d see on Law &amp; Order but rather the incredibly broad yet obscure crimes that populate the U.S. Code like a kind of jurisprudential minefield: Crimes like &#8220;false statements&#8221; (a felony, up to five years), &#8220;obstructing the mails&#8221; (five years), or &#8220;false pretenses on the high seas&#8221; (also five years). The trick and the skill lay in finding the more obscure offenses that fit the character of the celebrity and carried the toughest sentences. The, result, however, was inevitable: &#8220;prison time.&#8221;</p>
<p>As this story suggests, American law is underenforced—and we like it that way. Full enforcement of every last law on the books would put all of us in prison for crimes such as &#8220;injuring a mail bag.&#8221; No enforcement of our laws, on the other hand, would mean anarchy. Somehow, officials must choose what laws really matter.”</p>
<p><a href="http://www.slate.com/id/2175730/entry/2175733/" rel="nofollow">http://www.slate.com/id/2175730/entry/2175733/</a></p>
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		<title>By: David Thomson</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerkimball/2007/12/18/conrad_black_and_saintjust/#comment-421</link>
		<dc:creator>David Thomson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:56:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerkimball/2007/12/18/conrad-black-and-saint-just/#comment-421</guid>
		<description>The prosecution of Conrad Black seems comparable to a highway patrol officer ticketing someone for going 55 1/8 miles in a 55-mile zone.  There is an old saying that a prosecutor can always indict anyone if they simply search for some sort of excuse.  We have law on the books that are rarely enforced.  The question should often be asked: why did the prosecutor file charges in this particular case---and not others?  Also, there is a strong theory that juries are likely to convict on one or two charges if there are about ten to choose from.   They believe that they have reached a reasonable compromise.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The prosecution of Conrad Black seems comparable to a highway patrol officer ticketing someone for going 55 1/8 miles in a 55-mile zone.  There is an old saying that a prosecutor can always indict anyone if they simply search for some sort of excuse.  We have law on the books that are rarely enforced.  The question should often be asked: why did the prosecutor file charges in this particular case&#8212;and not others?  Also, there is a strong theory that juries are likely to convict on one or two charges if there are about ten to choose from.   They believe that they have reached a reasonable compromise.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeb</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerkimball/2007/12/18/conrad_black_and_saintjust/#comment-420</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 10:13:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>This whole thing was initiated by the board of Hollinger not Fitzgerald.  An internal investigation determined that he and others had received improper payments.  After this the board of Hollinger called for his resignation.  Then Hollinger filed suit for recovery of the money.  It was about a year later, largely based on evidence uncovered by Hollinger, that criminal charges were filed.
&lt;blockquote&gt;When ordered to return them, he did so tout de suite and right speedily.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
He returned the boxes about a week after the video of him removing them was made public.  What if anything was removed from those boxes in not known.
&lt;blockquote&gt;In that security video at 10 Toronto Street, Conrad Black may be doing all manner of things, but he’s not tampering with any witnesses.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Tampering with evidence fits the statute just as well as tampering with witnesses.
If some other criminal were to shred all evidence of their criminal wrongdoing would you also think that they should not be subject to obstruction charges provided that shredding was done in Canada or Mexico?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This whole thing was initiated by the board of Hollinger not Fitzgerald.  An internal investigation determined that he and others had received improper payments.  After this the board of Hollinger called for his resignation.  Then Hollinger filed suit for recovery of the money.  It was about a year later, largely based on evidence uncovered by Hollinger, that criminal charges were filed.</p>
<blockquote><p>When ordered to return them, he did so tout de suite and right speedily.</p></blockquote>
<p>He returned the boxes about a week after the video of him removing them was made public.  What if anything was removed from those boxes in not known.</p>
<blockquote><p>In that security video at 10 Toronto Street, Conrad Black may be doing all manner of things, but he’s not tampering with any witnesses.</p></blockquote>
<p>Tampering with evidence fits the statute just as well as tampering with witnesses.<br />
If some other criminal were to shred all evidence of their criminal wrongdoing would you also think that they should not be subject to obstruction charges provided that shredding was done in Canada or Mexico?</p>
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		<title>By: Keith</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerkimball/2007/12/18/conrad_black_and_saintjust/#comment-419</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 06:11:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Fitzgerald&#039;s minions tried Black, Fitzgerald&#039;s smug face was in court time to time overseeing his cocky protege.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fitzgerald&#8217;s minions tried Black, Fitzgerald&#8217;s smug face was in court time to time overseeing his cocky protege.</p>
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		<title>By: Maddie</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerkimball/2007/12/18/conrad_black_and_saintjust/#comment-418</link>
		<dc:creator>Maddie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Dec 2007 23:40:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Patrick Fitzgerald did not try Black.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Patrick Fitzgerald did not try Black.</p>
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		<title>By: Curly Smith</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/rogerkimball/2007/12/18/conrad_black_and_saintjust/#comment-417</link>
		<dc:creator>Curly Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Dec 2007 22:55:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerkimball/2007/12/18/conrad-black-and-saint-just/#comment-417</guid>
		<description>You can thank Rudy Giuliani for Patrick Fitzgerald and Elliot Spitzer.  Rudy&#039;s prosecution of Michael Milken is one major reason that I&#039;ll never vote for him.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can thank Rudy Giuliani for Patrick Fitzgerald and Elliot Spitzer.  Rudy&#8217;s prosecution of Michael Milken is one major reason that I&#8217;ll never vote for him.</p>
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