JMH @ 63:

It occurs to me the most patriotic, pro-active thing non-jihadi Muslims could do would be to speak out against the political correctness. Speak out against CAIR and against the family of this latest murderous bastard who are claiming he was the victim. Speak out – loudly and as a group – against the MSM trying to white-wash the radical connection.

I think we are past the point where words alone will have much effect. Tragically, the window of opportunity in which actions (such as those I suggested above) will be believed to be sincerely motivated, may also be closing, too.

That’s why I think that Muslims of good will need to get ahead of the curve, pronto. Because if (likely “when”) things change, they will change so suddenly and dramatically that it will be too late for laying groundwork.

“Beware the fury of a patient man.”

VDH has written about what he terms the Western way of war, and how it is linked to the Western democratic temperament. To summarize, it’s a beast that is slow to anger, and may seem for a long, long time to be indolent, even fatally so … but that appearance is deceptive. Because its reaction will come not gradually but suddenly, and that reaction will be more severe than can be imagined.

Joe Hill @ 45:

Great points, Joe, and if your analysis is correct, then we indeed have a case of irresistible force meets immovable object, and, in the words of that great Johnny Mercer song, somethin’s gotta give.

I once remarked to a friend that my loyalties, excluding family & Steeler Nation, lie in the following hierarchy: I am a Christian first, then an American, then a conservative, and then, dead last, a Republican. My friend expressed surprise that I would put Christian before American. I said I would not be a true Christian if it were not so.

IMV there is nothing in the Constitution or Declaration that instructs or compels me to put Christ anywhere other than first, or to live in any manner that I believe to be unChristian. The American system, as conceived, accommodates my faith by respecting it and butting the h*ll out. (The American system as presently practiced is another story.)

I’m not a religious scholar so I cannot say … but are there even *any* interpretations of the Koran or scholarship in the various branches of Islam that would instruct peaceful coexistence with our Constitution and Declaration? I’m not asking for devout Muslims to love and live contemporary American culture. Cripes, I myself think about 95% of it is garbage or worse. And as a Christian it offends me to no end. But if the Constitution as written is problematic for someone’s religion, than that person’s religion can quickly become problematic for me as an American citizen.

mac @ 91:

In all honesty, mac, there’s a chance you could be right. OTOH, maybe not. Unless an omniscient deity can step in and resolve this one by direct public revelation, we have to muddle through this conjecture as best we can.

Here are the two positions:

1. “Out of the billion+ Muslims on the planet, there is not one single ‘moderate’ [here defined as able to peacefully coexist with/among Western societies] among them.”

2. “Out of the billion+ Muslims on the planet, there are some moderates among them.”

Both these things cannot be true at the same time in the same way. Not being God, I don’t know & can’t say with absolute certainty that #1 is wrong. I just know that it is statistically a lot more unlikely than #2. I also believe (along with Wretchard, if I am reading him correctly), that acting on the assumption that #1 is true is, at least at this point in time, an approach more likely to push people & events towards #1 becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy.

If Joe Hill is right and there is no practical room in any Islamic teaching anywhere that allows for a Muslim to agree in good conscience to live under the principles of our Constitution and Declaration, then Muslims who are American citizens and residents are going to have to decide which identity means more to them and, just as importantly, Americans and the American government are going to have to come up with a process or mechanism that forces Muslim citizens and residents to commit accordingly and publicly (and to flush out and punish those who would lie in such a profession).

OTOH if Mr. Hill is off by even a margin, and if there is some sliver of a theological escape clause in Islamic scholarship somewhere that allows for good conscience Western citizenship for Muslims, then for God’s sake let’s find that escape clause and exploit it for all it’s worth. Because it will be worth untold number of human lives in the long run.

I don’t find declarations that assume 100% knowledge of the future or 100% knowledge of every individual among huge people groups to be very helpful … they tend to, at best, restrict options and, at worst, force the worst scenarios to come to pass.