Joshua you make some good points:

“spindok: People dont make babies because of some sort of rational retirement plan or for the good of society.

You’ve touched upon another of my favorite observations, which is that from a societal and cultural standpoint, procreating is a lot like voting in a U.S. presidential election, in that your individual contribution (or lack thereof), taken by itself, means next to nothing in deciding the outcome. That is, you could have one child or ten, or none at all, and in the big picture that won’t make a dime’s worth of difference. Therefore you have next to zero incentive for giving societal/cultural impact any weight in your family planning decisions. “Rational ignorance”, I guess, is bliss.”

(me)

I think we have to get a bit more visceral here. I have procreated and voted and they are not anything alike in my experience.

We all know how babies are made and often under circumstances that are less than ideal (my cousins last one, he told me, should have been named “Crown Royal” after what inspired her. She is fine, unplanned, wonderful and very much loved and cared for).

“Rational ignorance” sounds a bit too much for me. Maybe “rational disregard” is better as I see it.

The descent of the west into a barren future is the result of over thinking of something as normal as eating or breathing. We can only do that because of our benefits. Most people on this planet do not have these options.

We have sex. There is not much in the sexual part of our brains that is rational. Therefore we are in constant turmoil over this and that is perhaps how it ought to be.

People need permission from society to go ahead and mate and make babies. They also do not need any sort of admission that “society” has anything to do with the responsibility that ensues.

Spin