Am I squaring a circle here? The arguments made by whiskey, fred and NahnCee do not seem exclusive to me. Society as a whole benefits from certain behaviors on the part of young men and young women. This analysis can shade into Social Darwinism if done crudely. It benefits society if young men learn to value physical courage, self discipline, team identification, obedience to authority and integrity, particularly when questioned within the group. We used to teach these behaviors by raising our young men on the works of John Ford and Howard Hawks and the Bible. Similar, sometimes the same, socialization tools aided in teaching young women how to value another, if overlapping, set of values. The Marxist value set that has been steadily gaining strength in our society actively weakens the ability of people to either project or to seek out in a partner those behaviors that would be of benefit to the society as a whole. It was my postulate that in doing so the modern socialist culture is building on alliances that are open to it with subcultures, gay or urban black, that were historically separate from that of the dominant majority. Under those circumstances the behaviors described by NahnCee make perfect sense.