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	<title>Comments on: The CRU Hack</title>
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		<title>By: buddy larsen</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/11/20/the-cru-hack/#comment-81714</link>
		<dc:creator>buddy larsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 03:07:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=6831#comment-81714</guid>
		<description>yo, debbie wasserman-schultz is on &quot;Geraldo&quot; at the moment --quick --tune in Fox and watch the clash of towering intellects! And the towering clash of intellects!

***

habu --thanks for the lecture --and don&#039;t quit --lack of feedback may not be lack of interest (in fact in all liklihood it isn&#039;t, but that can&#039;t be readily proved, thus the use of a slight equivocation), but rather a case of readers being slightly stunned after a &quot;habu&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yo, debbie wasserman-schultz is on &#8220;Geraldo&#8221; at the moment &#8211;quick &#8211;tune in Fox and watch the clash of towering intellects! And the towering clash of intellects!</p>
<p>***</p>
<p>habu &#8211;thanks for the lecture &#8211;and don&#8217;t quit &#8211;lack of feedback may not be lack of interest (in fact in all liklihood it isn&#8217;t, but that can&#8217;t be readily proved, thus the use of a slight equivocation), but rather a case of readers being slightly stunned after a &#8220;habu&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Habu</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/11/20/the-cru-hack/#comment-81713</link>
		<dc:creator>Habu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 02:57:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=6831#comment-81713</guid>
		<description>294. Mongoose

Great points made in a great way. 

Now I must either skip todays (very light workout ) thus leaving a goose egg on the calendar or go use my equipment...gotta go...hate seeing those zeros ... best regards.
Best health and happiness to us all.

Habu</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>294. Mongoose</p>
<p>Great points made in a great way. </p>
<p>Now I must either skip todays (very light workout ) thus leaving a goose egg on the calendar or go use my equipment&#8230;gotta go&#8230;hate seeing those zeros &#8230; best regards.<br />
Best health and happiness to us all.</p>
<p>Habu</p>
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		<title>By: JMH</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/11/20/the-cru-hack/#comment-81712</link>
		<dc:creator>JMH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 02:55:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=6831#comment-81712</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Habu:&lt;/b&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;It doesn’t surprise me. Oh, there are those who will offer the follow-the-thread-I’m- just-being-a-good-contributor but that is just so much buncombe.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It&#039;s always a small fraction of the population that will go to extremes as long as things are even remotely tolerable.  &quot;more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable&quot;, as the Declaration says.

But take heart from the flip side - if the balloon goes up, only a small fraction of the other side will actually fight for the system they&#039;ve created either.  I doubt even very many purple-shirted SEIU thugs would feel all that tough if they were up against people who they knew would not only hit back, but maybe shoot back.  Alinky may have devised a clever scheme for working within civil, polite society, but almost everything about his system is predicated on the other side being contrained by civilized rules you don&#039;t have to follow.  If the other side stops following those rules, Alinskyites don&#039;t have much of a playbook.

Remember the coniption fits the Left had in 2000 when a bunch of Republicans in suits pounded their fists on a door in Florida during the hanging chad fiasco?  Oh, the thavage brutes!  

Well, hopefully it doesn&#039;t come to that, but it&#039;s going to take some political courage to turn things around peacefully.  We need some folks to get elected and set about dismantling the bureaucracy that funds the progressive/socialist agenda.  If that doesn&#039;t happen soon, all those problems you chronicled about growing inequality will boil over into violence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Habu:</b></p>
<blockquote><p>It doesn’t surprise me. Oh, there are those who will offer the follow-the-thread-I’m- just-being-a-good-contributor but that is just so much buncombe.</p></blockquote>
<p>It&#8217;s always a small fraction of the population that will go to extremes as long as things are even remotely tolerable.  &#8220;more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable&#8221;, as the Declaration says.</p>
<p>But take heart from the flip side &#8211; if the balloon goes up, only a small fraction of the other side will actually fight for the system they&#8217;ve created either.  I doubt even very many purple-shirted SEIU thugs would feel all that tough if they were up against people who they knew would not only hit back, but maybe shoot back.  Alinky may have devised a clever scheme for working within civil, polite society, but almost everything about his system is predicated on the other side being contrained by civilized rules you don&#8217;t have to follow.  If the other side stops following those rules, Alinskyites don&#8217;t have much of a playbook.</p>
<p>Remember the coniption fits the Left had in 2000 when a bunch of Republicans in suits pounded their fists on a door in Florida during the hanging chad fiasco?  Oh, the thavage brutes!  </p>
<p>Well, hopefully it doesn&#8217;t come to that, but it&#8217;s going to take some political courage to turn things around peacefully.  We need some folks to get elected and set about dismantling the bureaucracy that funds the progressive/socialist agenda.  If that doesn&#8217;t happen soon, all those problems you chronicled about growing inequality will boil over into violence.</p>
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		<title>By: Knight1</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/11/20/the-cru-hack/#comment-81711</link>
		<dc:creator>Knight1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 02:38:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=6831#comment-81711</guid>
		<description>Note this AP story TODAY - 11/22/09 at 2:54 pm:

&quot;Warming&#039;s impacts sped up,..worsened since Kyoto&quot; by Seth Borenstein, AP Science Writer -

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/sci_climate_09_post_kyoto

Has he been offline for three days?!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Note this AP story TODAY &#8211; 11/22/09 at 2:54 pm:</p>
<p>&#8220;Warming&#8217;s impacts sped up,..worsened since Kyoto&#8221; by Seth Borenstein, AP Science Writer -</p>
<p><a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/sci_climate_09_post_kyoto" rel="nofollow">http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/sci_climate_09_post_kyoto</a></p>
<p>Has he been offline for three days?!</p>
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		<title>By: Mongoose</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/11/20/the-cru-hack/#comment-81710</link>
		<dc:creator>Mongoose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 02:38:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=6831#comment-81710</guid>
		<description>we have not yet got to the point where a Mao or a Stalin can step in and lead us to the slaughterhouse, but that moment  wlll arrive soon enough. Collectivism is a rejection of our history and Cilivization. It will always result in barbarity.

 Let us not confuse bloodiness with ruthlessness, and let us not confuse the conditions of Russia or China back then with our conditions at this particular moment in time.

It take a particularly vile ruthlessness to plunder one&#039;s own nation at the height of its prosperity and to betray it to its mortal enemies. It takes a deep contempt to steal for generation their true legacy and birthright. To plot over it and keep at it for decade after decade shows a level of ruthlessness few elites has every possessed.

They are about the overturning and destruction of Western civilization, and yes, it may well result in a new Dark Age. Cannot get more ruthless than that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>we have not yet got to the point where a Mao or a Stalin can step in and lead us to the slaughterhouse, but that moment  wlll arrive soon enough. Collectivism is a rejection of our history and Cilivization. It will always result in barbarity.</p>
<p> Let us not confuse bloodiness with ruthlessness, and let us not confuse the conditions of Russia or China back then with our conditions at this particular moment in time.</p>
<p>It take a particularly vile ruthlessness to plunder one&#8217;s own nation at the height of its prosperity and to betray it to its mortal enemies. It takes a deep contempt to steal for generation their true legacy and birthright. To plot over it and keep at it for decade after decade shows a level of ruthlessness few elites has every possessed.</p>
<p>They are about the overturning and destruction of Western civilization, and yes, it may well result in a new Dark Age. Cannot get more ruthless than that.</p>
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		<title>By: Mongoose</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/11/20/the-cru-hack/#comment-81709</link>
		<dc:creator>Mongoose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 02:23:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=6831#comment-81709</guid>
		<description>Josh: hogwash, they are one of the most ruthless elites in history.

They are tearing down the most successful civilization of history for their own lusts.

They are destroy the hard work of generations in a handful of year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Josh: hogwash, they are one of the most ruthless elites in history.</p>
<p>They are tearing down the most successful civilization of history for their own lusts.</p>
<p>They are destroy the hard work of generations in a handful of year.</p>
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		<title>By: Batman</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/11/20/the-cru-hack/#comment-81708</link>
		<dc:creator>Batman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 02:19:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=6831#comment-81708</guid>
		<description>Josh @293 -- of course you are right that the current crowd is not ruthless in comparison to Mao or Stalin or Genghis Khan. And I&#039;m sure you can find examples in American History here and there of those in power using it in unprecedented ways.  I plead guilty to seeing the current situation in terms of my political lifetime (started as a young kid when I heard Truman dismissing MacArthur, on to Edward R. Murrow interviewing Joseph McCarthy, etc.)  

However, I do not think that those currently in power, Obama, Emmanuel, Pelosi, are stupid.  I think they are doing exactly what they intend to do in whatever ways they think they can get away with.  

That what they are doing is extremely foolish from the point of view of those who value American Exceptionalism and Western Civilization, is obvious.  But they are not stupid.  They WANT to devalue America and set back Western Civilization and are going about it rather smartly and effectively.  

Foolish -- yes; stupid -- no.  Ruthless? -- well I take your point.  Not as bad as Mao or Stalin but pretty far in recent American terms.  And most of us are either colluding or watching with disbelief or maybe disinterest until it is too late.  

But I still cherish the belief that it is not (yet) too late.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Josh @293 &#8212; of course you are right that the current crowd is not ruthless in comparison to Mao or Stalin or Genghis Khan. And I&#8217;m sure you can find examples in American History here and there of those in power using it in unprecedented ways.  I plead guilty to seeing the current situation in terms of my political lifetime (started as a young kid when I heard Truman dismissing MacArthur, on to Edward R. Murrow interviewing Joseph McCarthy, etc.)  </p>
<p>However, I do not think that those currently in power, Obama, Emmanuel, Pelosi, are stupid.  I think they are doing exactly what they intend to do in whatever ways they think they can get away with.  </p>
<p>That what they are doing is extremely foolish from the point of view of those who value American Exceptionalism and Western Civilization, is obvious.  But they are not stupid.  They WANT to devalue America and set back Western Civilization and are going about it rather smartly and effectively.  </p>
<p>Foolish &#8212; yes; stupid &#8212; no.  Ruthless? &#8212; well I take your point.  Not as bad as Mao or Stalin but pretty far in recent American terms.  And most of us are either colluding or watching with disbelief or maybe disinterest until it is too late.  </p>
<p>But I still cherish the belief that it is not (yet) too late.</p>
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		<title>By: Mongoose</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/11/20/the-cru-hack/#comment-81707</link>
		<dc:creator>Mongoose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 02:13:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=6831#comment-81707</guid>
		<description>Habu, what stands behind those points you make are changes that are structural and international in scope and power. The whole thing is larger than who happens to sit in the WH or on the Hill. They are, in effect, the conditions that obtain in most of the world:  Parasitic elites that sit atop an internal economy and are gatekeepers and rent seekers for international access to internal markets. Note that these elites are part Socialist and part Corporatist. It is not purely ideological--ideology is more of a technique used maintain position and power than it is a basis of being. Heretofore we have avoided these conditions, or at least had the &quot;design margin&quot; to accomodate such actors without bringing it all down.

Our elites conspire now to make America like the rest of the world, and they to it with a unfettered alacrity and glee.

Ultimately, &quot;globalism&quot; will have to be rejected if we are to return to prosperity and liberty. Why? Productive wealth creation. This means broad opportunity in small and medium sized manufacturing. Yes, there is a technology component, but it is tertiary. Adam smith had it right: a pyramid formed of agriculture, manufacturing and services (including technology). The root of our technology advance has been the push during the Cold War for military and cultural dominance. Already, not even two decades out of it, this drive has been leached out of our &quot;people&quot;, if indeed Americans can still be thought of as a &quot;people&quot;, which is a proposition I am increasingly dubious about.

We cannot prosper in a world where one has to have a PhD from one of 20 Universities in order to be a productive and successful entrepreneur. We cannot be a technical leader unless we seek full leadership in the world across the board, and this means a return to profound military dominance.

Thus there has to be a rebirth of Commerce and national identity. Not a &quot;new&quot; economic order--there is no such thing as a service economy and there cannot be broad prosperity with an internationally &quot;rationalized &quot;World economy&quot;--but a return to what we know is true and right. 

Culturally,, this means a rejection of the Liberal culture that has become the mainstream culture of our nation and civilization. Economically, this means turning back on economic globalism.

This will be  a hard nut to crack, as both the elites,  and organized labor and the various clients of both seek to suck rents out of any ambitious and aggressive entrepreneurs, and both seek a mindless and supine populus. This is just the crisis that the EU, Latin America and, to a degree, even Russia now suffers from. There appears no hope for them short of cataclysm.  If we do not turn back soon, so too will be our fate.

As I have often said--no doubt to the point of boorishness--turning this around chiefly  depends on our national character and nature.

As You have noted above, this seems not to be what it was.

It will take a radical change of America to right all of this: a true rebirth.
It would take much forbearance, fortitude and courage by those who would undertake this for there would be much displacement and hardship for those who have not the heart or mind for it. Nearly half of our &quot;people&quot; are engaged in anything approaching productive labor.

Perhaps it is true that it requires only a third of us to change matters, but I, like you, an aghast and appalled at the lack of reaction to all that has transpired in the last eight years. I would have thought the American people would never have stood for the radical and causal casting off of all of our history,traditions and values. I am sure that this would have not happened even 20 years ago.

What has changed? The boomer now come fully into power, that is what has changed.

Looks grim to me. Freedom is hard work. Liberty is hard work, and that include &lt;i&gt;economic&lt;/i&gt; liberty. Do we want to be free?
This is what I was touching apon in my posts above.

It is beyond an &quot;attitude&quot; or a lack of &quot;political will&quot;, it is something deep within the national character, deep within our souls. Are we who we once were?

And if we are not, for those of us who remain of the old lines, what then for us?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Habu, what stands behind those points you make are changes that are structural and international in scope and power. The whole thing is larger than who happens to sit in the WH or on the Hill. They are, in effect, the conditions that obtain in most of the world:  Parasitic elites that sit atop an internal economy and are gatekeepers and rent seekers for international access to internal markets. Note that these elites are part Socialist and part Corporatist. It is not purely ideological&#8211;ideology is more of a technique used maintain position and power than it is a basis of being. Heretofore we have avoided these conditions, or at least had the &#8220;design margin&#8221; to accomodate such actors without bringing it all down.</p>
<p>Our elites conspire now to make America like the rest of the world, and they to it with a unfettered alacrity and glee.</p>
<p>Ultimately, &#8220;globalism&#8221; will have to be rejected if we are to return to prosperity and liberty. Why? Productive wealth creation. This means broad opportunity in small and medium sized manufacturing. Yes, there is a technology component, but it is tertiary. Adam smith had it right: a pyramid formed of agriculture, manufacturing and services (including technology). The root of our technology advance has been the push during the Cold War for military and cultural dominance. Already, not even two decades out of it, this drive has been leached out of our &#8220;people&#8221;, if indeed Americans can still be thought of as a &#8220;people&#8221;, which is a proposition I am increasingly dubious about.</p>
<p>We cannot prosper in a world where one has to have a PhD from one of 20 Universities in order to be a productive and successful entrepreneur. We cannot be a technical leader unless we seek full leadership in the world across the board, and this means a return to profound military dominance.</p>
<p>Thus there has to be a rebirth of Commerce and national identity. Not a &#8220;new&#8221; economic order&#8211;there is no such thing as a service economy and there cannot be broad prosperity with an internationally &#8220;rationalized &#8220;World economy&#8221;&#8211;but a return to what we know is true and right. </p>
<p>Culturally,, this means a rejection of the Liberal culture that has become the mainstream culture of our nation and civilization. Economically, this means turning back on economic globalism.</p>
<p>This will be  a hard nut to crack, as both the elites,  and organized labor and the various clients of both seek to suck rents out of any ambitious and aggressive entrepreneurs, and both seek a mindless and supine populus. This is just the crisis that the EU, Latin America and, to a degree, even Russia now suffers from. There appears no hope for them short of cataclysm.  If we do not turn back soon, so too will be our fate.</p>
<p>As I have often said&#8211;no doubt to the point of boorishness&#8211;turning this around chiefly  depends on our national character and nature.</p>
<p>As You have noted above, this seems not to be what it was.</p>
<p>It will take a radical change of America to right all of this: a true rebirth.<br />
It would take much forbearance, fortitude and courage by those who would undertake this for there would be much displacement and hardship for those who have not the heart or mind for it. Nearly half of our &#8220;people&#8221; are engaged in anything approaching productive labor.</p>
<p>Perhaps it is true that it requires only a third of us to change matters, but I, like you, an aghast and appalled at the lack of reaction to all that has transpired in the last eight years. I would have thought the American people would never have stood for the radical and causal casting off of all of our history,traditions and values. I am sure that this would have not happened even 20 years ago.</p>
<p>What has changed? The boomer now come fully into power, that is what has changed.</p>
<p>Looks grim to me. Freedom is hard work. Liberty is hard work, and that include <i>economic</i> liberty. Do we want to be free?<br />
This is what I was touching apon in my posts above.</p>
<p>It is beyond an &#8220;attitude&#8221; or a lack of &#8220;political will&#8221;, it is something deep within the national character, deep within our souls. Are we who we once were?</p>
<p>And if we are not, for those of us who remain of the old lines, what then for us?</p>
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		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/11/20/the-cru-hack/#comment-81706</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 01:49:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=6831#comment-81706</guid>
		<description>Batman, come on, don&#039;t exemplify exactly what you&#039;re criticizing, it&#039;s not the ruthlessness of those in power now, that&#039;s still modest, as world political history goes.  But, their *stupidity* is truly record-setting, at least in the modern age.

... well, I suppose, other candidates for mondo stupido are not really that hard to come by, I guess I don&#039;t what to exemplify what you&#039;re criticizing either ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Batman, come on, don&#8217;t exemplify exactly what you&#8217;re criticizing, it&#8217;s not the ruthlessness of those in power now, that&#8217;s still modest, as world political history goes.  But, their *stupidity* is truly record-setting, at least in the modern age.</p>
<p>&#8230; well, I suppose, other candidates for mondo stupido are not really that hard to come by, I guess I don&#8217;t what to exemplify what you&#8217;re criticizing either &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Angel Martin</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/11/20/the-cru-hack/#comment-81705</link>
		<dc:creator>Angel Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 01:44:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=6831#comment-81705</guid>
		<description>maz2  #189

The hack of the AWG emails has not yet affected the cap and trade market on Intrade, for 2010 and 2011.

http://www.intrade.com/jsp/intrade/contractSearch/index.jsp?clsID=78&amp;grpID=9605

I think it will take a few days, or even weeks before the full impact of this is felt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>maz2  #189</p>
<p>The hack of the AWG emails has not yet affected the cap and trade market on Intrade, for 2010 and 2011.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.intrade.com/jsp/intrade/contractSearch/index.jsp?clsID=78&#038;grpID=9605" rel="nofollow">http://www.intrade.com/jsp/intrade/contractSearch/index.jsp?clsID=78&#038;grpID=9605</a></p>
<p>I think it will take a few days, or even weeks before the full impact of this is felt.</p>
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