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	<title>Comments on: Twenty years after the End of History</title>
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		<title>By: buddy larsen</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/11/09/twenty-years-after-the-end-of-history/#comment-80152</link>
		<dc:creator>buddy larsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 00:40:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=6684#comment-80152</guid>
		<description>Mx/91; but you haven&#039;t been arguing &lt;i&gt;at all&lt;/i&gt; --with or &lt;i&gt;without&lt;/i&gt; idiots. you have a lot of ground to cover before your lists of hilariously dubious assertions, deft tho accidental illustrations of the oppo contending points (been meaning to thank you again), and wholesale manufacture of false-witness propaganda (find me anywhere anytime speaking of Russian health care, disease, demographics, draft-dodging respiratory whatnot, et cetera) even begin to resemble argumentation, even to we idoits. 

that said, peace, bro   :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mx/91; but you haven&#8217;t been arguing <i>at all</i> &#8211;with or <i>without</i> idiots. you have a lot of ground to cover before your lists of hilariously dubious assertions, deft tho accidental illustrations of the oppo contending points (been meaning to thank you again), and wholesale manufacture of false-witness propaganda (find me anywhere anytime speaking of Russian health care, disease, demographics, draft-dodging respiratory whatnot, et cetera) even begin to resemble argumentation, even to we idoits. </p>
<p>that said, peace, bro   <img src='http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Mr. X</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/11/09/twenty-years-after-the-end-of-history/#comment-80129</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. X</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 21:54:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=6684#comment-80129</guid>
		<description>&quot;fifteen Russian armored divisions, five guards divisions, the Russian blue-water navy and fleet submarine attack and ICBM flotillas, the layered hundred regiments of rocket and arty, the twenty air wings of 4G fighters and fighter-bombers, the ten strategic bomber wings, the six thousand modern tanks and three thousand combat aircraft and one million soldiers &amp; sailors, and lastly the 5000 nuclear weapons and the unofficial thousands of battlefield tacnukes that we dont know about, was planning to troop whatever was left of its 30 tanks, brigade of infantry, several Volga-closing inshore PT boats&quot; This is not a rational discussion, if you actually believe that Russia has this size force across eleven time zones, much less concentrated in the Caucases to crush little Georgia.

The truth - that the Russians only had about thirteen thousand men, and the Georgians roughly the same in their order of battle fighting on their home turf, AND THEY STILL BROKE AND RAN - is much harder for you to swallow. 

In fact, the Georgians did have Israeli made UAVs, night vision goggles, U.S. supplied Marine BDUs (check the camoflage pattern from the Paliwood-type Georgian soldier who kept popping up dead or wounded in all the AP photos)...certainly some equipment the Russians didn&#039;t have. And they still lost. Obviously they would have been overwhelmed eventually by superior numbers from Russia, no one disputes that. But this isn&#039;t what happened at all. A force that marched confidently into South Ossetia believing that Russia would stand aside instead got shellacked in 72 hours. And the Russians lied to the media about going to Gori? So did Stormin&#039; Norman right before Desert Storm. Disinformation is a fact of war.

And spare me all the preparations for war stuff. Both sides prepared in advance, except the Russians had better SIGINT from Saako personally directing the battle from his cellphone like any arrogant Ivy Leaguer might try to do, plus probably some disaffected Georgians who reported his war plan in advance. So...does the fact that Russia is bigger and has more competent intelligence services prove that Georgia was an innocent victim? Hardly.

The fifteen ACTUAL Russian armored divisions you describe probably have not existed except on paper since 1993. There are probably only two or three ready to fight on ten weeks notice if that. Hell, the one and a half division that went in to S. Ossetia was the cream of the crop (mostly paid volunteers not conscripts) and they still had to be spun up with exercises and be right across the tunnel to perform well.

You are living in a fantasy world where somehow you can simultaneously believe that Russia is dying off demographically AND still can maintain a million strong force as opposed to 200,000-300,000 contract soldiers with a whole bunch of one year conscripts who may or may not actually be in a barracks somewhere between Vyborg and Vladivostok, or may only report on paper while developing a truly alarming number of respiratory illnesses. I daresay even some of the crazy disease statistics you hear about young Russian men might simply be a consequence of ducking the draft rather than reality.

That&#039;s it, I&#039;m done arguing with idiots.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;fifteen Russian armored divisions, five guards divisions, the Russian blue-water navy and fleet submarine attack and ICBM flotillas, the layered hundred regiments of rocket and arty, the twenty air wings of 4G fighters and fighter-bombers, the ten strategic bomber wings, the six thousand modern tanks and three thousand combat aircraft and one million soldiers &amp; sailors, and lastly the 5000 nuclear weapons and the unofficial thousands of battlefield tacnukes that we dont know about, was planning to troop whatever was left of its 30 tanks, brigade of infantry, several Volga-closing inshore PT boats&#8221; This is not a rational discussion, if you actually believe that Russia has this size force across eleven time zones, much less concentrated in the Caucases to crush little Georgia.</p>
<p>The truth &#8211; that the Russians only had about thirteen thousand men, and the Georgians roughly the same in their order of battle fighting on their home turf, AND THEY STILL BROKE AND RAN &#8211; is much harder for you to swallow. </p>
<p>In fact, the Georgians did have Israeli made UAVs, night vision goggles, U.S. supplied Marine BDUs (check the camoflage pattern from the Paliwood-type Georgian soldier who kept popping up dead or wounded in all the AP photos)&#8230;certainly some equipment the Russians didn&#8217;t have. And they still lost. Obviously they would have been overwhelmed eventually by superior numbers from Russia, no one disputes that. But this isn&#8217;t what happened at all. A force that marched confidently into South Ossetia believing that Russia would stand aside instead got shellacked in 72 hours. And the Russians lied to the media about going to Gori? So did Stormin&#8217; Norman right before Desert Storm. Disinformation is a fact of war.</p>
<p>And spare me all the preparations for war stuff. Both sides prepared in advance, except the Russians had better SIGINT from Saako personally directing the battle from his cellphone like any arrogant Ivy Leaguer might try to do, plus probably some disaffected Georgians who reported his war plan in advance. So&#8230;does the fact that Russia is bigger and has more competent intelligence services prove that Georgia was an innocent victim? Hardly.</p>
<p>The fifteen ACTUAL Russian armored divisions you describe probably have not existed except on paper since 1993. There are probably only two or three ready to fight on ten weeks notice if that. Hell, the one and a half division that went in to S. Ossetia was the cream of the crop (mostly paid volunteers not conscripts) and they still had to be spun up with exercises and be right across the tunnel to perform well.</p>
<p>You are living in a fantasy world where somehow you can simultaneously believe that Russia is dying off demographically AND still can maintain a million strong force as opposed to 200,000-300,000 contract soldiers with a whole bunch of one year conscripts who may or may not actually be in a barracks somewhere between Vyborg and Vladivostok, or may only report on paper while developing a truly alarming number of respiratory illnesses. I daresay even some of the crazy disease statistics you hear about young Russian men might simply be a consequence of ducking the draft rather than reality.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s it, I&#8217;m done arguing with idiots.</p>
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		<title>By: Wednesday 091111 &#124; Cross Fit</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/11/09/twenty-years-after-the-end-of-history/#comment-80123</link>
		<dc:creator>Wednesday 091111 &#124; Cross Fit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 21:40:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=6684#comment-80123</guid>
		<description>[...] &quot;Twenty Years after the End of History&quot; - The Belmont Club [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &quot;Twenty Years after the End of History&quot; &#8211; The Belmont Club [...]</p>
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		<title>By: buddy larsen</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/11/09/twenty-years-after-the-end-of-history/#comment-80116</link>
		<dc:creator>buddy larsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 21:14:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=6684#comment-80116</guid>
		<description>Mm/88; --one wonders what, without Churchill&#039;s speeches, would have happened over that year between the Fall of France and the German invasion of USSR. USSR was a German ally, America&#039;s entry was far in the future and by no means assured --or even likely, given Hitler&#039;s support from influential luminaries from Joe Kennedy and Lucky Lindburgh on down. Japan held China&#039;s coast and Mongolia, Hitler was headed east thru north Africa and Japan heading west thru the subcontinent, both Axis powers enroute to meet in a conquered India --to put the entire Eurasian &#039;world island&#039; plus Africa in the Axis working-asset column. had Tradesport been around, you could&#039;ve probably got 10 to 1 against England. But they had that old boy Churchill.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mm/88; &#8211;one wonders what, without Churchill&#8217;s speeches, would have happened over that year between the Fall of France and the German invasion of USSR. USSR was a German ally, America&#8217;s entry was far in the future and by no means assured &#8211;or even likely, given Hitler&#8217;s support from influential luminaries from Joe Kennedy and Lucky Lindburgh on down. Japan held China&#8217;s coast and Mongolia, Hitler was headed east thru north Africa and Japan heading west thru the subcontinent, both Axis powers enroute to meet in a conquered India &#8211;to put the entire Eurasian &#8216;world island&#8217; plus Africa in the Axis working-asset column. had Tradesport been around, you could&#8217;ve probably got 10 to 1 against England. But they had that old boy Churchill.</p>
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		<title>By: marymcl</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/11/09/twenty-years-after-the-end-of-history/#comment-80100</link>
		<dc:creator>marymcl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 19:53:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=6684#comment-80100</guid>
		<description>At the start of &quot;Their Finest Hour&quot;, the second book in Churchill&#039;s history of WWII, he states the following - 

MORAL OF THE WORK ~

In War: Resolution
In Defeat: Defiance
In Victory: Magnanimity
In Peace: Good Will

THEME OF THE VOLUME ~

How the British people held the fort ALONE till those who had been half blind were half ready ~

Something to remember on this day of remembrance</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At the start of &#8220;Their Finest Hour&#8221;, the second book in Churchill&#8217;s history of WWII, he states the following &#8211; </p>
<p>MORAL OF THE WORK ~</p>
<p>In War: Resolution<br />
In Defeat: Defiance<br />
In Victory: Magnanimity<br />
In Peace: Good Will</p>
<p>THEME OF THE VOLUME ~</p>
<p>How the British people held the fort ALONE till those who had been half blind were half ready ~</p>
<p>Something to remember on this day of remembrance</p>
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		<title>By: Whitehall</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/11/09/twenty-years-after-the-end-of-history/#comment-80054</link>
		<dc:creator>Whitehall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 16:31:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=6684#comment-80054</guid>
		<description>Mr. Presbypoet - #75

For a brief discussion of fallout patterns, check this:

http://glasstone.blogspot.com/2006/12/gamma-radiation-from-surface-burst.html

Your post exactly illustrates my call for greater civil defense education and awareness.  For most people in an urban target area, outside of the direct blast effects, sheltering in place is the correct move.  For others, it is fatal without an adequate shielding - feet of dirt or concrete.

The risk, as you pointed out, is that people who should shelter get up and start running across the fallout patterns, thereby overexposing themselves to fatal radiation and people who should get up and move, shelter without adequate shielding.

In a panic mood, both groups get in each others&#039; way and everyone suffers.  

The government will broadcast fallout predictions and recommendations within 15 minutes or so.  People need to pay attention and follow directions!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Presbypoet &#8211; #75</p>
<p>For a brief discussion of fallout patterns, check this:</p>
<p><a href="http://glasstone.blogspot.com/2006/12/gamma-radiation-from-surface-burst.html" rel="nofollow">http://glasstone.blogspot.com/2006/12/gamma-radiation-from-surface-burst.html</a></p>
<p>Your post exactly illustrates my call for greater civil defense education and awareness.  For most people in an urban target area, outside of the direct blast effects, sheltering in place is the correct move.  For others, it is fatal without an adequate shielding &#8211; feet of dirt or concrete.</p>
<p>The risk, as you pointed out, is that people who should shelter get up and start running across the fallout patterns, thereby overexposing themselves to fatal radiation and people who should get up and move, shelter without adequate shielding.</p>
<p>In a panic mood, both groups get in each others&#8217; way and everyone suffers.  </p>
<p>The government will broadcast fallout predictions and recommendations within 15 minutes or so.  People need to pay attention and follow directions!</p>
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		<title>By: Lifeofthemind</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/11/09/twenty-years-after-the-end-of-history/#comment-80051</link>
		<dc:creator>Lifeofthemind</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 15:39:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=6684#comment-80051</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;5050noline&lt;/b&gt;,
Thank you brother.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>5050noline</b>,<br />
Thank you brother.</p>
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		<title>By: 5050noline</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/11/09/twenty-years-after-the-end-of-history/#comment-80050</link>
		<dc:creator>5050noline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 15:16:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=6684#comment-80050</guid>
		<description>Steeple: &#039;You all have disresepected the 400,000 who died 60 years ago so that you could trash us for the past 25 years.&#039;

Today, as I do every year, I have placed flowers on the memorial to the memory of the crew of B-24D Liberator No. 41-24282 BAR Y &#039;Ruth Less&#039; of 506 Squadron 44th Bombardment Group 8th USAAF who died February 2nd 1944 returning from a raid over Germany in a badly damaged aircraft and in low cloud at that spot on the Downs above my house here in Eastbourne, England.

I am an ex-UK Serviceman - aircrew in the Royal Air Force. I have served in many parts of the world with servicemen from the United States. I have never heard one single one of them, ever, voice anything like your foul remark.

Today is 11th November, when we remember the Fallen. 

I strongly suggest that you keep your ignorant remarks, and appalling English, to yourself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steeple: &#8216;You all have disresepected the 400,000 who died 60 years ago so that you could trash us for the past 25 years.&#8217;</p>
<p>Today, as I do every year, I have placed flowers on the memorial to the memory of the crew of B-24D Liberator No. 41-24282 BAR Y &#8216;Ruth Less&#8217; of 506 Squadron 44th Bombardment Group 8th USAAF who died February 2nd 1944 returning from a raid over Germany in a badly damaged aircraft and in low cloud at that spot on the Downs above my house here in Eastbourne, England.</p>
<p>I am an ex-UK Serviceman &#8211; aircrew in the Royal Air Force. I have served in many parts of the world with servicemen from the United States. I have never heard one single one of them, ever, voice anything like your foul remark.</p>
<p>Today is 11th November, when we remember the Fallen. </p>
<p>I strongly suggest that you keep your ignorant remarks, and appalling English, to yourself.</p>
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		<title>By: Fletcher Christian</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/11/09/twenty-years-after-the-end-of-history/#comment-80048</link>
		<dc:creator>Fletcher Christian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 15:02:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=6684#comment-80048</guid>
		<description>#68 Tarnsman - Agreed in its entirety excpet for one thing. &quot;The Trident fleet unleashed against the Islamic world means the destruction of their civilization.&quot;

What civilisation?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#68 Tarnsman &#8211; Agreed in its entirety excpet for one thing. &#8220;The Trident fleet unleashed against the Islamic world means the destruction of their civilization.&#8221;</p>
<p>What civilisation?</p>
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		<title>By: buddy larsen</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/11/09/twenty-years-after-the-end-of-history/#comment-80041</link>
		<dc:creator>buddy larsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 12:43:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=6684#comment-80041</guid>
		<description>MX/81;  so, i&#039;m lying about my personal connections, the USA gov&#039;t is lying about everything, the USA media is lying whenever it critiques mother russia, and really, everybody is lying all the time and about everything in regards the invasion of Georgia --oops i mean the invasion of Russia, by that formidable platoon of Georgian tanks and their squadron of air cover, which, as soon as it had pushed out of the way and/or destroyed fifteen Russian armored divisions, five guards divisions, the Russian blue-water navy and fleet submarine attack and ICBM flotillas, the layered hundred regiments of rocket and arty, the twenty air wings of 4G fighters and fighter-bombers, the ten strategic bomber wings, the six thousand modern tanks and three thousand combat aircraft and one million soldiers &amp; sailors, and lastly the 5000 nuclear weapons and the unofficial thousands of battlefield tacnukes that we dont know about, was planning to troop whatever was left of its 30 tanks, brigade of infantry, several Volga-closing inshore PT boats, and squadron of interceptors thru and over Red Square to the Kremlin, where it planned (and surely would have executed were it not for the Heroic Federation Armed Forces&#039; defense which by the skin of its teeth managed to stop the onrushing Georgian military nmachine&#039;s juggernaut in its tracks inside --oops! --Georgia, mostly WAY inside Georgia --double oops!) where it planned to surround as much of the kremlin building, or at least the parking lot, as it could, and then pull out the Georgian Army&#039;s bullhorn and demand a surrender.

But then Georgia has been at war with the Volga peoples for 800 years --about 750 of them before the USA began to get accused by the Kremlin of being &#039;the problem with Georgia&#039;.  

Really, Mr X, really. Credibility is immportant, you know, in the hortatory didactic pedagogy biz.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MX/81;  so, i&#8217;m lying about my personal connections, the USA gov&#8217;t is lying about everything, the USA media is lying whenever it critiques mother russia, and really, everybody is lying all the time and about everything in regards the invasion of Georgia &#8211;oops i mean the invasion of Russia, by that formidable platoon of Georgian tanks and their squadron of air cover, which, as soon as it had pushed out of the way and/or destroyed fifteen Russian armored divisions, five guards divisions, the Russian blue-water navy and fleet submarine attack and ICBM flotillas, the layered hundred regiments of rocket and arty, the twenty air wings of 4G fighters and fighter-bombers, the ten strategic bomber wings, the six thousand modern tanks and three thousand combat aircraft and one million soldiers &amp; sailors, and lastly the 5000 nuclear weapons and the unofficial thousands of battlefield tacnukes that we dont know about, was planning to troop whatever was left of its 30 tanks, brigade of infantry, several Volga-closing inshore PT boats, and squadron of interceptors thru and over Red Square to the Kremlin, where it planned (and surely would have executed were it not for the Heroic Federation Armed Forces&#8217; defense which by the skin of its teeth managed to stop the onrushing Georgian military nmachine&#8217;s juggernaut in its tracks inside &#8211;oops! &#8211;Georgia, mostly WAY inside Georgia &#8211;double oops!) where it planned to surround as much of the kremlin building, or at least the parking lot, as it could, and then pull out the Georgian Army&#8217;s bullhorn and demand a surrender.</p>
<p>But then Georgia has been at war with the Volga peoples for 800 years &#8211;about 750 of them before the USA began to get accused by the Kremlin of being &#8216;the problem with Georgia&#8217;.  </p>
<p>Really, Mr X, really. Credibility is immportant, you know, in the hortatory didactic pedagogy biz.</p>
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