I agree, McPherson’s book is a fine one-volume work. I’ve had it a while – read it for the second time last year. Read Catton’s trilogy many years ago and have been wondering if I ought to re-visit it.

One of my great-grandfathers was orphaned at age 10 in Georgia during the Civil War. He later came to Oklahoma with his 15-yr-old bride, became a Methodist circuit rider, fathered 12 kids, and according to family legend was the first Democrat (all others being Populists) elected in Oklahoma. So as the joke has it, until I was in my teens I thought damnyankee was one word. How things change – I don’t know a single family member now who’s not a conservative Republican.

Yes, Foote’s work is a fine epic, and epic is what it surely is. A true masterpiece. One can almost smell the powder and hear the tumult. I think that only a southern intellectual of his generation could pull this off.

We should never forget how that war shaped us. The Europeans were shaped by ww1, and this haunts and bedevils us to this day. We were not so shaped. It was the Civil War that forged our national consciousness and temperament, and this is true down to this day. This is the source of much confusion between Americans and Europeans, and nowhere is this more clear than in the issues of society, governments, nations and the individual.

If you do not know of it, let me recommend this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Battle-Cry-Freedom-Civil-War/dp/0345359429

It is perhaps the best one volume work on the Civil War and gives a wonderful overview.

It comes more from the sides of political economy and technology than the side of close battle descriptions, orders of battle, etc. It does, of course discuss the great battles, but it has not the rousing flourishes of Foote’s work, nor its focus on the raw battles of the war. Neither It does not delve so richly into the personalities of the soldiers who fought them. Still, it is well written and there is a bit of poetry to the prose. It is a reasonable and complimentary companion to Foote’s work.

Incidentally, My great grandfather fought under Grant and was wounded at Shiloh. He fought through most of the War, and many of the large battles.

Thank you for your detailed and eloquent response, with which I agree. I truly pulled the trigger before clearing leather.

I just finished reading Shelby Foote’s three volume set on the Civil War. It was a far more gripping experience than I had expected. Apropos your comment that the combatants on both sides considered themselves American, I came away with renewed respect for the troops on both sides of the line (if not the politicians). What a stain if having fought that terrible war we allow our country to be co-opted by its enemies.

No, I don’t find you incoherent, although, (if there is room at the drawing board) I won’t limit myself to charcoal. If I can use the crayolas or pastels too…

I just do not believe you can get to where Mongoose is unless your route goes through the caldron of war. War is, among its many faults, a large melting pot, a leveler of men. Attributing racial tones to the force of Mongoose’s words does display a bit of incoherence, if not myopia. The post racial-ism that obama-speak leads us to, is not the rejection of racism, but rather the reversal of those roles as found in the US. It is not the declaration of certain chauvinisms as the prejudicial conduct it is, but as the accepting of different “manners” as being right as in correct, within the framework of multicultural-ism. In its perspective it is a destiny meant for slaves, and that is nothing close to what Mongoose is aiming for.

I know I do not need to speak for Mongoose. But I do feel compelled to correct what I see as mis-perceptions, based on your original protest?

It would not surprise me one wit if you found me to be likewise incoherent.

And not all of us, not at all, but I do think there is at least one person who appears to be arguing in favor of the “white race” in addition to Western Civilization.

Is that not the crux ? The idea was that wherever a man might be born, and whatever his colour or belief system, he could become an American IF he could sincerely commit himself to “support and defend” the US Constitution.
The President swears to “preserve, protect and defend the Constitution”, members of the armed forces swear to “support and defend the Constitution”, it seems like just about everyone swears to it in one way or another. The Constitution occupies a central and sacred (or maybe totemic) place in American society, and you fear that this is somehow changing, that the expectation of Constitutional loyalty is being allowed to slide into abeyance, and that a “pick and mix”, multi-culti, demi-loyalty is going to become the norm.
You fear that if that happens then the US will become feeble and divided, and you are right to be afraid. It certainly frightens me.
Perhaps the only positive aspect of Britain’s accelerating decline is that Americans can now look at us and take warning, understand the awfulness of the future lumbering towards you, and perhaps find ways to turn it aside.
If you succeed, then there is a chance that your example will help us, but if you fail then our future will be dark indeed.

Let’s win the children to our propoganda! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLRLw5Ve3qM

Mr. Parker, may I humbly suggest that you are not even in the same conversation, much less of the same mind.

Culture has little to do with DNA, race is frankly a myth thus your insistence that we are talking about white Europeans is frankly disquieting. America is more than just a state of mind, Our laws, our traditions our view of ourselves as individual citizens with rights assumes there are responsibilities too.

Our Constitution asserts that all powers not explicitly given to the central government are reserved to the states. Within each state are Constitutions which likewise limit the powers of each part of government local, regional and statewide. Knowledge of and involvement in governing ourselves responsibly is the ultimate expression of that culture. What the current administration is proposing is nothing short of the abdication of that very specific and very American culture. That we believe such a culture can be practiced and supported by any group of human beings that desires individual liberty and believes like we do that our rights are self evident. To achieve that individual attitude in our cultural setting is not an exercise of automatic reflex. Especially if you are used to having your lowly self trampled by every celebrity driving down the street.

That said the school system has failed to support the culture, miserably.

Is there anyone here who ever, even slightly, advocated multi-culturalism?

No. Why would we, why should we? If you are referring to clog dancing then yeah, I can support that. But if you are referring to the political culture that allows the republic to function, then I I want nothing to do with your plea for multiculturalism. That would be self defeating.

That said, I believe wholeheartedly that you don’t have to be White, or native born, to be a true American. I see it every day. I’ll go even further, and say that in many cases immigrants, and/or their children, are more devoted to the ideas of this country than many native borns. Regardless of color or country of origin. I’ve seen this in action multiple times.

I say this because in many cases they come from poor and/or politically repressive countries, and appreciate what we have here in a more fundamental way than many native born citizens, who may regard our system as a given, and don’t often marvel at what we have. Most of us, me included, are guilty of this.

I have had a perfect example of this living next to me for 20 years. The parents are from Vietnam, and their story is pretty amazing. They took a huge step down in affluence and prestige when they came here, and they’ve made the most of the opportunities offered without any complaint that I’ve heard. They’ve raised three beautiful daughters, and if all the rest of the young adults were like those girls I can tell you we’d be a better place. And those girls look Vietnamese, but they’re as American as Apple Pie. This is not the only example of this that I know of, just the one I’m closest to.

I deal with Europeans and Asians on a regular basis since I have projects going in Europe and Asia at work. I’ll tell you, from what I’ve seen, many of the Europeans, who are most assuredly “white”, would, if they emigrated here, attempt to bring their welfare state and slacker mentality with them. The Asians I deal with, however, are almost uniformly hard workers, and would fit in well in this Country, should they come.

If I had the choice to admit 100 people from Vietnam, or 100 from Belgium, I wouldn’t hesitate for a moment. The problem is not skin color, or the culture people come from, but whether they are willing to accept our culture, and accomodate themselves, or whether they expect us to accomodate them. Multiculturalism is the road to ruin, but whether we accept that depends more on the will of those who are already here than it does on those who wish to come.